• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Why do you think Roxas, Xion and Namine should return?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

LightAndOblivion

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
124
Hey, I know. That's what I was saying.
People justify their story-wise decisions like "it'd make sense" because they like or dislike a character even though it really wouldn't make sense. Sora wouldn't ever just let it happen that all the people connected to him vanish into thin air, even without any salvation at all. Yet people seem to think that'd be best for them because reasons.

I'm sorry but that's a load of bullshit.

A number of people in this thread alone including myself have given plenty of reasons why these three should stay gone. It's not about having to like or dislike the character 100% of the time. From a narrative point of view and how their endings left an impact, it makes more sense for them to stay gone than come back. But they'll be back because unnecessary fanservice that fans of their characters would jump onto disregarding their conclusions and just want the good ol' "everyone has to have a 100% happy Disney ending."

But unlike others here, I'm not going to lump everyone into the same category since there are some fans of those characters who would prefer they stay gone and preserve the feeling and meaning to their sacrifices and what they had on the characters connected to them.

It has nothing to do with "liking or disliking a character" -- or at least, it's less of a component than you're making it sound. It has to do with the story ending in the most predictable and least compelling way possible. People are too stuck to the idea that everyone has to get the biggest end of the stick -- everyone's story gets resolved in the luckiest way possible, and everyone is going to get to sit happily shoving sea salt ice cream down their throat while looking at the Destiny Islands sunset... what kind of good story is that? Why must every story have the happiest ending? Because it's a Disney game?

For some characters, what they have is a compromise. Accepting the circumstances of their existence is not a lack of "salvation" or "vanish[ing] into thin air". It may not be total 100% freedom and happiness, but they survived and achieved a content state... and that's not necessarily a bad thing. To our knowledge, Roxas and Namine aren't unhappy -- they got to find out who they are, where they "belong", and now they get to be together as long as Sora and Kairi are. Now, Xion still has a ways to go to reach that contentedness, but she does not have to become a full-fledged individual for that to happen.

A perfect example is Axel. It's safe to assume that "Axel" as we know him is never coming back. But do you look at Lea and feel like their situation is unfair and sad? Probably not... and you shouldn't. Because in the end peace was still found, and Lea is still continuing on in earnest for the both of them.

Exactly.
 
Last edited:

Audo

press △ to sora
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
5,424
Awards
40
Age
32
Website
avale-reves.tumblr.com
It has to do with the story ending in the most predictable and least compelling way possible.
I mean, technically all of these characters getting second chances, and the ability for their stories to continue mean they have the opportunity to go anywhere, which would make it not so predictable? People are just offering possible solutions (like living happily in Twilight Town) because they are coming up with ways for these people to be saved but to not be active in the plot, but that doesn't mean that's what's going to happen. They still easily could be active in the plot, they still easily could have new things for their characters to want and to have motivations. Look at Axel, when he got recompleted, he didn't just sit in RG happily content. No, he had new things he wanted to achieve and so his story continued on.

Why must every story have the happiest ending? Because it's a Disney game?
This would be a better argument if not for the fact that the only game out of this eight game series to have a truly happy ending was KHII. At this point, the series has earned a happy ending lol.

A perfect example is Axel. It's safe to assume that "Axel" as we know him is never coming back. But do you look at Lea and feel like their situation is unfair and sad? Probably not... and you shouldn't. Because in the end peace was still found, and Lea is still continuing on in earnest for the both of them.
Axel is a weird example for you to use... Lea IS Axel, like, that was Axel "being saved", him being recompleted. Nomura even said as much. Lea is Axel's second chance, just like all these characters will get second chances, and, as we see with Lea, that doesn't necessarily mean a "predictable, luckiest way possible, ending" because, by being given a second chance, Axel/Lea's story was able to continue and his character was given new things to want and fight for and struggle for.


Honestly, for me, my least favoruite argument against this stuff is when people say it tarnishes the various characters' sacrifices and I just cannot agree. They don't tarnish or take away from anything because the characters had no idea that a second chance was even possible. When Axel killed himself to save Sora, he didn't know he would wake up as Lea. When Roxas accepted his "fate" and went back to Sora and ceased to be his own individual, he didn't know there was the possibility he could be his own person. And so on. They still made these choices believing them to be the last choices they'd make, and just because we find out that there is more beyond that choice doesn't mean that choice is now meaningless. That's kind of like arguing that someone taking a bullet for you is a meaningless gesture if they manage to survive. They didn't know they would, and yet they still did it.

I'm sorry but that's a load of bullshit.
A number of people in this thread alone including myself have given plenty of reasons why these three should stay gone. It's not about having to like or dislike the character 100% of the time. From a narrative point of view and how their endings left an impact, it makes more sense for them to stay gone than come back. But they'll be back because unnecessary fanservice that fans of their characters would jump onto disregarding their conclusions and just want the good ol' "everyone has to have a 100% happy Disney ending." .
It's a little disingenuous to argue that it's bullshit that people who are against them coming back only are because they dislike the characters, but then say that the only reason they are coming back is "unnecessary fanservice that fans would jump onto disregarding their conclusions". If it's bullshit that people who are against it are only against is because they dislike the characters, then it's bullshit to say that the people who are for it are only for it because they like the characters. There are arguments for it on a narrative standpoint after all.
 
Last edited:

Lanydx reborn

The Superior Lanydx
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Location
Wandering.
Cause simply put, all three characters got screwed over out of having a life of their own. i like the characters I'd like to see them get a happy ending. They put of up with so much crap from the Org and Xehanort. To all those people who say. that they shouldn't get a happy ending, cause that's not realistic. Blow me. It's a disney game with Final Fantasy characters in it. The game has some a lot of dark stuff, and Id' rather have a satisfying earn your happy ending type. Rather then Lol, dark ending, done bye. Looking at you Dark Souls.
 

LightAndOblivion

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
124
@Audo Maaaaybe I could have reworded that last bit better but why else do people really want these characters back? Like let's be honest here.

If it's not because they're disregarding their conclusions, then what is it for?

For second chances? For happy endings? For the lulz?

Which is what I meant by "100% happy Disney ending"

But if there are other reasons for those fans to want those characters back, I'd love to hear them. I'm curious.
 

MrFranklin95

Active member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
490
Awards
3
Age
29
Location
Los Angeles, California
Website
www.facebook.com
I think it makes more sense that they come back rather then stay "dead" as far as how they went out. Maybe I don't know how the spirit of a nobody feels but that doesn't sound like a compelling existence or a compelling narrative to be stuck inside a person forever (especially when its crammed up lol). Even a story line where everyone was gone once can be brought back for a new chance at a life they never had can still be very compelling to the narrative. I don't see why not?

Having characters you love go through hardships because of villain manipulation and the latter is heartbreaking and left it an impact. Even if those characters were brought back, their "death" would still leave an impact on characters and their developments going forward. And why can't the same be said for a redemption story and being brought back for a second chance these characters never got and deserve. In an unlimited fantasy world like this, characters like this don't need to stay gone. It's not bringing a situation where ANYONE can be brought back now. All the characters are in a very different position then someone like Superman who died because he was beaten to death and then magically came back to life because... reasons. Plus, and I don't remember who said but I'm quoting it because it was a good point; we've had a lot of years after KH2 of them hinting at this plotline. It would be weird for them to just suddenly drop it out of nowhere for fans who feel they want something more compelling to them.

We have this mindset, one I mainly blame on comic books and anime, is that when someone is brought back to life all tension and drama and any reason to care for anyone in the story is gone but that's not always true. I mean, look at Game of Thrones lol

And hell, look at Gandalf the Grey. And those stories are considered the best in fantasy. It all depends on how you do it.

But then you look at something like Dragonball. I mean, I love Dragonball but death means nothing in that universe. So I see where people are coming from because this type of thing can be abused for fanservice if they wanted.

But you guys are saying the same thing about fans only wanting certain story lines because "muh fanservice" but that's being a little hypocritical. Because there are fans who do believe bringing them back in a heartfelt way adds something to this story going forward. I mean, I could honestly twist words and say that leaving these characters dead made them feel rather unnecessary and "what was even the point if they're dead at the end of the game? So the character became a fart in the wind, doesn't change anything if they were there or not"

But that's not fair, of course. I tend to think Both sides have compelling reasons for why they want character dead/alive for narrative sakes. If you think having them come back is too predictable, that's fine. I tend to think leaving them dead isn't the way to go and having them brought would add something to the narrative. It really all depends on how they approach that idea. It's all in the writing... let's just hope they got good writers ol
 
Last edited:

redcrown

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
1,005
Awards
6
Call me cruel but I don't think there is a real reason for them to come back. "Saving their hearts from their past hurt" feels really tacked on. I kind of wish there was a more lore or stronger plot related reason for them to come back.

Example, the BBS trio could have had the reason "they have certain knowledge about Xehnort that would be helpful for the current generation to defeat him, and are all still alive and literally suffering in their own hells." RNX seem like they're getting saved just cause, even though they all accepted their peaceful fates of merging with Sora/Kairi/Roxas.

But who didn't expect KH to bring them back, so I don't really care too much.

edit: woah is auto correct a bitch
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
A number of people in this thread alone including myself have given plenty of reasons why these three should stay gone. It's not about having to like or dislike the character 100% of the time. From a narrative point of view and how their endings left an impact, it makes more sense for them to stay gone than come back. But they'll be back because unnecessary fanservice that fans of their characters would jump onto disregarding their conclusions and just want the good ol' "everyone has to have a 100% happy Disney ending."

I never said 100 % of those who don't want them back don't do so because they dislike them.
I just said it's pretty popular to not want a character back because the person doesn't like them. And sorry, things like "Xion shouldn't have been made so she should stay gone" is exactly that and I've seen that here (and in other threads).

Other than that, I can just wholeheartedly agree with what Audo said.
You say you named reasons why they should stay gone - fine. But others also stated reasons why they should come back. And those reasons sure weren't "100 % disney good ending" crap like you put it.
And even if they were. Again, like Audo said, when did we ever really get good endings in KH besides KHII?

Besides, I don't even think all of them have to become super-prominent characters in the next saga.
I just think showing them in Blank Points, in Re:Coded and in 3D and then just not bringing them back somehow would be pretty weird, if not wrong.
 

reimeille

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
125
Age
27
Location
S. California, USA
I mean, technically all of these characters getting second chances, and the ability for their stories to continue mean they have the opportunity to go anywhere, which would make it not so predictable? People are just offering possible solutions (like living happily in Twilight Town) because they are coming up with ways for these people to be saved but to not be active in the plot, but that doesn't mean that's what's going to happen. They still easily could be active in the plot, they still easily could have new things for their characters to want and to have motivations. Look at Axel, when he got recompleted, he didn't just sit in RG happily content. No, he had new things he wanted to achieve and so his story continued on.

This would be a better argument if not for the fact that the only game out of this eight game series to have a truly happy ending was KHII. At this point, the series has earned a happy ending lol.

Of course they were given second chances, but it was never the end of the story. We are talking about the possibility of conclusively wrapping up these characters in the future (KH3 possibly), and why we believe they should or should not "come back" in any capacity.

Axel is a weird example for you to use... Lea IS Axel, like, that was Axel "being saved", him being recompleted. Nomura even said as much. Lea is Axel's second chance, just like all these characters will get second chances, and, as we see with Lea, that doesn't necessarily mean a "predictable, luckiest way possible, ending" because, by being given a second chance, Axel/Lea's story was able to continue and his character was given new things to want and fight for and struggle for.

You're literally restating my point?? Lea is Axel's second chance, just as Sora is Roxas/Xion's and Kairi is Namine's. It's not their best chance or the happiest ending for them, but it works and I find it much more compelling. The people here, to my understanding, seem to be expressing that they want them to exist as individuals once again, living a "proper life" alongside everyone else. THAT is what I was referring to as predictable and lucky. The old "break established rules of universe to bring back everyone from the dead so everyone can be happy" shtick.

And the rest of what you wrote can just be chalked up to difference in opinion.

EDIT: When did I ever say that Kingdom Hearts ever had happy endings? This entire time I was talking about the future of the series, not the past titles.
 

LightAndOblivion

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
124
I never said 100 % of those who don't want them back don't do so because they dislike them.
I just said it's pretty popular to not want a character back because the person doesn't like them. And sorry, things like "Xion shouldn't have been made so she should stay gone" is exactly that and I've seen that here (and in other threads).

Other than that, I can just wholeheartedly agree with what Audo said.
You say you named reasons why they should stay gone - fine. But others also stated reasons why they should come back. And those reasons sure weren't "100 % disney good ending" crap like you put it.
And even if they were. Again, like Audo said, when did we ever really get good endings in KH besides KHII?

Besides, I don't even think all of them have to become super-prominent characters in the next saga.
I just think showing them in Blank Points, in Re:Coded and in 3D and then just not bringing them back somehow would be pretty weird, if not wrong.

You certainly made it seem like you were lumping everyone who didn't want them to come back just "because they don't like the characters" despite giving actual reasons for it that had nothing to do with likability. That's why I said what I said. Maybe I read it the wrong way.

Xion shouldn't have been made. The people who don't like her and in game Organization primarily Saix make the joke about it but it's not the real reason why she shouldn't be back as people here have already explained on here which I know they have done. You just weren't looking at everything and only picked out pieces of certain arguments that had the person voicing their dislike of Xion.

And I'm still waiting for those reasons why people want them back besides "having a 100% Disney happy ending" because I've looked back on this thread and that's exactly why people want them back for the most part. At least from what I'm reading.

"They deserve a second chance because Xehanort ruined their lives"

"They need to have a happy ending"

It goes hand in hand with what I said.

And as for the "good endings".... honestly depends on how you see it. I think Roxas and Namine had a pretty good ending to me. Bittersweet but they were content with their fates. Like Xion was.

Before BBS threw in that dumb "birth by sleep concept" and Coded/DDD continued on that, you couldn't picture these guys coming back. Recompletion was hinted on in the KH2 FM ultimania iirc but that was only for the return of fan favorites like Axel and other former Organization members along with the return of Xehanort. Even that particular concept held no favors for Roxas, Namine and Xion to return until the "birth by sleep" concept got tacked on later.
 
Last edited:

MrFranklin95

Active member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
490
Awards
3
Age
29
Location
Los Angeles, California
Website
www.facebook.com
And I'm still waiting for those reasons why people want them back besides "having a 100% Disney happy endings" because I've looked back and that's exactly why people want them back for the most part.

"They deserve a second chance because Xehanort ruined their lives"

"They need to have a happy ending"

It goes hand in hand with what I said.

If that's all you see then that's all on you, I guess. People here have given plenty of reasons why they think bringing them back would add something besides 100% happy Disney ending, which most to these games never got besides KH2.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,113
Awards
39
Location
Vienna
I'unno, I kinda have to agree with LightAndOblivion on all of this.
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
And I'm still waiting for those reasons why people want them back besides "having a 100% Disney happy endings" because I've looked back and that's exactly why people want them back for the most part.

To quote you.
"You just weren't looking at everything and only picked out pieces of arguments."

I saw someone say they need to operate without a connection to Sora so we finally see them as who they are. That doesn't have anything to do with a good ending. Heck, they could even turn out to be the worst evil fuckers in the world. (They won't, but just in theory).
I also think I saw a post (if not here, then in another thread) about how they and their pain are a burden to Sora and the fact that he meets them and dives way too hard into his dream to help them almost gets him dragged into the darkness. Who knows something like that couldn't happen again if they just stayed inside his heart?
 

LightAndOblivion

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
124
If that's all you see then that's all on you, I guess. People here have given plenty of reasons why they think bringing them back would add something besides 100% happy Disney ending, which most to these games never got besides KH2.

.......like what? A beach party?

To quote you.
"You just weren't looking at everything and only picked out pieces of arguments."

I saw someone say they need to operate without a connection to Sora so we finally see them as who they are. That doesn't have anything to do with a good ending. Heck, they could even turn out to be the worst evil diddlyers in the world. (They won't, but just in theory).
I also think I saw a post (if not here, then in another thread) about how they and their pain are a burden to Sora and the fact that he meets them and dives way too hard into his dream to help them almost gets him dragged into the darkness. Who knows something like that couldn't happen again if they just stayed inside his heart?

Haha what? We've seen who Roxas, Namine and Xion are without having to reference Sora. It's why they starting growing their own hearts to show they're growing their own connections.

But let's agree to disagree. People have their opinions so it's whatever. I don't want to argue about this all day.
 
Last edited:

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,113
Awards
39
Location
Vienna
.......like what? A beach party?
Good one!
giphy.gif
 

MrFranklin95

Active member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
490
Awards
3
Age
29
Location
Los Angeles, California
Website
www.facebook.com
.......like what? A beach party?

I'm mostly talking about this thread and not the whole fanbase. Even then, that's picking and choosing things that fits your argument either way.

Haha what? We've seen who Roxas, Namine and Xion are without having to reference Sora. It's why they starting growing their own hearts to show they're growing their own connections

EDIT: Eh, I mean the connection was still there and definitely had some influence on their life, even if for the most part they never knew why or how. I mean, look at Sora and Ventus. And those two haven't even met yet lol.
 

reimeille

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
125
Age
27
Location
S. California, USA
If that's all you see then that's all on you, I guess. People here have given plenty of reasons why they think bringing them back would add something besides 100% happy Disney ending, which most to these games never got besides KH2.

There hasn't been more than 2-3 responses that I've seen here that aren't some variation of "they deserve it after all the crap that's happened to them" or "Sora wouldn't just leave them behind". Which essentially chalks up to the same thing -- "we want a happy ending".

Just because only one game in the series has had a happy ending, doesn't mean that we still have a need for one. We don't need to fill some sort of quota. In the end it's all up to opinion so I won't continue to argue against it, but I personally believe that never giving a definitely "happy" ending to most of the games despite being a "cutesy" Disney story about friendship is precisely what makes Kingdom Hearts's story so good.
 

VoidGear.

red gay
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
5,594
Awards
57
Age
29
Location
Germany
Haha what? We've seen who Roxas, Namine and Xion are without having to reference Sora. It's why they starting growing their own hearts to show they're growing their own connections.

Are you for real?
All Naminé did for like most of CoM and even KH2 was manipulate Sora and the people around him. All Xion did was trying to find out who she was because she had weird memories that belonged to Sora and not to her.
Where exactly did we see them without a connection to Sora?
 

LightAndOblivion

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
124
Are you for real?
All Naminé did for like most of CoM and even KH2 was manipulate Sora and the people around him. All Xion did was trying to find out who she was because she had weird memories that belonged to Sora and not to her.
Where exactly did we see them without a connection to Sora?

So I guess you're going to ignore all of Namine's other connections to people like Kairi, Riku, Diz etc and ignore 358/2 Days literally forcing Xion's connections to her friends Roxas and Axel down our throats along with her conflicts with Saix and Xemnas?

But sure it was all about Sora 100%

I don't even like Xion at all but even I find that kinda insulting to her character or what you can call a character.

But again, agree to disagree. We're clearly not going to see eye to eye on this and I've gotta go soon anyways so yeah.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,113
Awards
39
Location
Vienna
So I guess you're going to ignore all of Namine's other connections to people like Kairi, Riku, Diz etc and ignore 358/2 Days literally forcing Xion's connections to her friends Roxas and Axel down our throats along with her conflicts with Saix and Xemnas?

But sure it was all about Sora 100%

I don't even like Xion at all but even I find that kinda insulting to her character or what you can call a character.

But again, agree to disagree. We're clearly not going to see eye to eye on this and I've gotta go soon anyways so yeah.
this.

I'm sorry, I don't know what else to say. I kinda need a point to jump into the convo, haha
 

Absent

Nomura's Biggest Fan
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
3,342
Awards
17
Location
Outer Rim
I don't mean to toot my own horn(I'll do it anyway) but I thought I gave a very compelling argument as to why they need a second chance. Here I'll simplify it: They were abused, pushed into a corner with no way out. These characters are way more than their deaths, they're people who were never given a chance to be anything but a tragedy.

And that's why people want a happy ending, to see the victims rise again and smile.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top