Why do you think Roxas, Xion and Namine should return?

[Absent]

Eh, that would be nice and all if most of the "dead" characters'd had much of a choice in the matter. Xion and Roxas certainly didn't; both were pretty much forced to give up their existences. They couldn't have escaped their fates no matter what they did. Roxas was literally beaten unconscious so DiZ could drag him into Virtual Twilight Town. You call that a choice? What Roxas and Xion did wasn't sacrifice... it was pretty much giving up because there was nothing they could do that would make their situation any better.

BINGO! There was never a choice for these characters. It was either Bad Ending No.1 or Bad Ending No.2. They lost the moment they were born.

Like hey to each their own but arguing that they had choices when there was none only adds more insult to these characters.

 

[VoidGear.]

BINGO! There was never a choice for these characters.

They did have the choice, at least Roxas and Xion somehow did.
But yeah, I agree that the possibilities they had to choose between really weren't quite enjoyable. I think that makes it even worse. We see them actively choose their end not because they think "yeh I wanna die" but because they think that's the only think they can do in order not to cause even more harm.

 

[TheOtherPromise]

Like in the recent Pixar film Inside Out, when Bing Bong gave up his existance for Joy to find a way back. Or when in Star Wars, Obi-Wan gave up his life for Luke Skywalker to escape, they had some weight to it. It gave the resolution a bigger impact, because there was a risk, and in life, risks have to be taken.

I agree. Too many characters in KH are being resurrected. I can deal with Sora being resurrected because that was the first game in the series and it was first time they pulled that plot twist. However, if they keep having characters die and then bring them back it becomes redundant and predictable. I'd rather them do something else.
I also dont see why Xion and Roxas need to be their own people? Why cant they live on through Sora?

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

I agree. Too many characters in KH are being resurrected. I can deal with Sora being resurrected because that was the first game in the series and it was first time they pulled that plot twist. However, if they keep having characters die and then bring them back it becomes redundant and predictable. I'd rather them do something else.
I also dont see why Xion and Roxas need to be their own people? Why cant they live on through Sora?

Because their games present the thesis of the importance of someone forging their own identity and being independent if they weren't an original to begin with.

Look, the resurrection thing is not a convention I'm crazy about, but it's the theme of the series at this point. I thought that was the turning point, actually, in the entire saga. Birth by Sleep presented it beautifully: is friendship enough to save you?

 

[Master Exin]

I agree. Too many characters in KH are being resurrected. I can deal with Sora being resurrected because that was the first game in the series and it was first time they pulled that plot twist. However, if they keep having characters die and then bring them back it becomes redundant and predictable. I'd rather them do something else.
I also dont see why Xion and Roxas need to be their own people? Why cant they live on through Sora?

Thank you, someone who finally understands what I meant. Not to sound like a big ego, but at least I'm trying to be honest, I'm clutching at straws here.

 

[Muke]

W-wow. Never thought I'd say this, but I also agree with you, Exin. Great Examples with your last post!

 

[Sephiroth0812]

The risks ARE being taken.
Even if characters are saved, that doesn't change the heart-breaking shit they've been through. It doesn't change their existential crisis, the fact that they have been used or abused or even actively hurt their own friends.
Riku has been a good guy for multiple games now. Does that revise the bad things he did in KH1? Definitely not.

Very good, this important bit however has been stated over and over by now and yet still some either don't get it or do not want to see it.
The importance and consequences of these actions are still there no matter what, they are hugely affecting other characters right now throughout the series.

Because their games present the thesis of the importance of someone forging their own identity and being independent if they weren't an original to begin with.

Look, the resurrection thing is not a convention I'm crazy about, but it's the theme of the series at this point. I thought that was the turning point, actually, in the entire saga. Birth by Sleep presented it beautifully: is friendship enough to save you?

Exactly, from what I see when I constantly hear terms like "tragedy" and "realism" there seems to be either a willful/deliberate ignorance or a genuine lack of knowledge that the KH series, at its core, is still a highly idealistic work despite all of the dark themes.

I also dont see why Xion and Roxas need to be their own people? Why cant they live on through Sora?

The answer is pretty simple actually: because they are NOT Sora!

---

Nonetheless though I think this whole thing is going in circles right now as the same questions keep being repeated and the same answers are given without actually getting attention.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Also, they pretty much have to come back or else Sora will have to live with eternal pain and suffering inside him for the rest of his life.

 

[Launchpad]

I always thought the data world might work out for these kids, and Lea could still visit them. In a worst case scenario.

 

[Master Exin]

With all these objecting pro-Roxas comments, fair enough. But keep in mind, Namine chose to remain a part of Kairi, right?
That and, if Nobodies really can their own "hearts", then does that mean they can become Heartless and have Nobodies of their own? Oh my gosh, I think I created a paradox.

W-wow. Never thought I'd say this, but I also agree with you, Exin. Great Examples with your last post!

Thank you.

 

[appleboy82791]

With all these objecting pro-Roxas comments, fair enough. But keep in mind, Namine chose to remain a part of Kairi, right?
That and, if Nobodies really can their own "hearts", then does that mean they can become Heartless and have Nobodies of their own? Oh my gosh, I think I created a paradox.

That's a good point. Maybe we'll get more clarification on this in a later game. Although, I imagine that there has to be some kind of difference in the way it works with Nobodies. Maybe Nobodies that have regrown a heart can't be split or become heartless. I don't know.

(And no. You didn't create a paradox. what you're describing is just a never ending cycle. It doesn't defy logic or contradict itself so it's not a paradox.)

 

[Master Exin]

That's a good point. Maybe we'll get more clarification on this in a later game. Although, I imagine that there has to be some kind of difference in the way it works with Nobodies. Maybe Nobodies that have regrown a heart can't be split or become heartless. I don't know.

(And no. You didn't create a paradox. what you're describing is just a never ending cycle. It doesn't defy logic or contradict itself so it's not a paradox.)

Oh, okay. Good theory. Maybe Heartless can grow their own bodies as well, which might explain Sora & "Ansem, SoD".

(Sorry for misinterpreting the word 'paradox' though.)

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

With all these objecting pro-Roxas comments, fair enough. But keep in mind, Namine chose to remain a part of Kairi, right?

Not exactly. Namine thought that Nobodies were mostly doomed to fade, both Ansem and Xemnas had targets on her, and even if she knew about the recompletion cycle, that wouldn't have applied to her because there was no corresponding heartless. Returning to Kairi was the best-case scenario. Outside of Xehanort's immediate circle, nobody knew that Nobodies could regrow a heart.

Even though Namine began suspecting it in 2, there wasn't enough time to convey everything she was realizing before Sora woke up. Also, Namine probably didn't have a choice once she helped Kairi escape. You'll notice that upon contact with Kairi, she immediately begins to fade and fights it until she comes across Riku.

 

[VoidGear.]

Remember that it's not an "infinite cycle" as soon as the connection to other characters ends.
Normal nobodies (like Axel) are basically really the person they used to be (Lea), inhabit their memories and emotions and turn back to be the person they used to be when they are recompleted (although it makes you wonder if SE didn't think that through early enough or if they do suffer under some form of amnesia...). Naminé and Roxas are exceptions because of the fact that they are special nobodies with either multiple characters tied to their creation or influence from another heart. Oh, and in Roxas case, the fact that Kairi recompleted Sora with her magic mumbo-jumbo instead of the normal process of turning back also adds to the confusion.

 

[Master Exin]

Not exactly. Namine thought that Nobodies were mostly doomed to fade, both Ansem and Xemnas had targets on her, and even if she knew about the recompletion cycle, that wouldn't have applied to her because there was no corresponding heartless. Returning to Kairi was the best-case scenario. Outside of Xehanort's immediate circle, nobody knew that Nobodies could regrow a heart.

Even though Namine began suspecting it in 2, there wasn't enough time to convey everything she was realizing before Sora woke up. Also, Namine probably didn't have a choice once she helped Kairi escape. You'll notice that upon contact with Kairi, she immediately begins to fade and fights it until she comes across Riku.

Touche.

Remember that it's not an "infinite cycle" as soon as the connection to other characters ends.
Normal nobodies (like Axel) are basically really the person they used to be (Lea), inhabit their memories and emotions and turn back to be the person they used to be when they are recompleted (although it makes you wonder if SE didn't think that through early enough or if they do suffer under some form of amnesia...). Naminé and Roxas are exceptions because of the fact that they are special nobodies with either multiple characters tied to their creation or influence from another heart. Oh, and in Roxas case, the fact that Kairi recompleted Sora with her magic mumbo-jumbo instead of the normal process of turning back also adds to the confusion.

I felt just as confused as well.

 

[TheOtherPromise]

The answer is pretty simple actually: because they are NOT Sora!

Thats true but I thought Sora needed them to be whole. So Xion and Roxas also need Sora to be complete as well. Even if they grew their own hearts, they don't have their own bodies.
Unless I'm misunderstanding things. Days is the most confusing game tbh.

Thank you, someone who finally understands what I meant. Not to sound like a big ego, but at least I'm trying to be honest, I'm clutching at straws here.

No problem

Because their games present the thesis of the importance of someone forging their own identity and being independent if they weren't an original to begin with.

Look, the resurrection thing is not a convention I'm crazy about, but it's the theme of the series at this point. I thought that was the turning point, actually, in the entire saga. Birth by Sleep presented it beautifully: is friendship enough to save you?

So Roxas and Xion need to become their own people in order to complete their plot arcs? That makes sense but (like what I said to Sephiroth0812 above) I thought they all needed each other to be complete.

 

[HoverKnight]

So Roxas and Xion need to become their own people in order to complete their plot arcs? That makes sense but (like what I said to Sephiroth0812 above) I thought they all needed each other to be complete.

They don't really need to, Both Roxas and Xion were created using Sora but became a being of their own. Sora existed without Roxas in the end of KHI and thoughout CoM completely fine and while Xion halted his memory restoration it unknown if she can't also exist alongside him after returning his memories and it even seems likely that she'd be able to.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Thats true but I thought Sora needed them to be whole. So Xion and Roxas also need Sora to be complete as well. Even if they grew their own hearts, they don't have their own bodies.
Unless I'm misunderstanding things. Days is the most confusing game tbh.

So Roxas and Xion need to become their own people in order to complete their plot arcs? That makes sense but (like what I said to Sephiroth0812 above) I thought they all needed each other to be complete.

While Days is indeed somewhat confusing this is actually one of the situations where it isn't.
The whole thing with "needing them to be whole" pertains only to Sora's loose memories which were held by both Roxas and Xion.

Naminé explains this in detail in Days:

Naminé: I wasn't sure I'd see you again.

Riku: You made me a promise. Naminé: To look after Sora. I remember. I'm sorry... I'm not sure I've
kept that promise very well.

Riku: What happened?

Naminé: Some of Sora's memories are missing.

Riku: How can that be?

Naminé: They're escaping through Sora's Nobody into a third person--
and now they're starting to become a part of her.

Riku: You can't get the memories back out.

Naminé: If they're still separate...then yes, I think so.

(She looks at the sketchbook on the table of the picture of Axel, Roxas,
and Xion)

Naminé: But if they join with her memories, things get a lot more complicated.
I would need to untangle her memory before I could finish Sora's... What was
supposed to take months might take years. DiZ would be furious.

Riku: So what's the solution?

Naminé: If I try to just jump in and rearrange her memory...then I risk Sora
waking up to find out that nobody remembers him anymore. I can't do that to
him. It's too late either way. His awakening will have to be delayed. I never
imagined Sora's Nobody and the other one would fight so hard to be their own
people. Unfortunately, the only real solution...is for them both to go away.

Naminé: Did you know her face was blank at first? Only now can you see
someone. That proves some of Sora's memories are inside her. Some inside
her, some inside Sora...others inside Sora's Nobody... I can't sort it out
anymore. All I can do is pick up the pieces once what has to be done, is done.

Riku: All right, then.

To shorten the whole thing without having to write an explanatory essay about it:
Had Naminé not messed up/unchained Sora's memories in Chain of Memories and Xion not the unwitting ability to absorb these loose memories through Roxas (who has a close connection to Sora at all times) so that some of these memories eventually ended up in Roxas (the reason why he later had those dreams of a "boy in red") and some in Xion, them merging with Sora would not have been necessary at all.

In the above quoted part Naminé explains to Riku just what a mess the whole issue has become and sorting it out "normally" aka meaning she would have to not only work on Sora but Roxas and Xion as well is not possible because a) it would take too long and b) the Organisation is already full at work implementing their plans, leaving them little time as is.

The whole "needing each other to be complete" was just like Xemnas' babbling about the Nobodies not being able to get hearts except through following him and building that fake KH: Excuses and propaganda to make the characters in question do what Xemnas/DiZ wanted them to do in order to further their plans.
The "parts of Sora" both Roxas and Xion hold are Sora's untangled memories they unwittingly absorbed, it is not their whole being that has to be/is "part of Sora".

 

[Divine Past]

Roxas was a bro about it at least because I don't think he ever considered attacking sleeping Sora to keep his own existence. Then again who knows what would have happen if Roxas wasn't a dummy and gifted Sora the win in their fight.

Namine is sad just cause she was lonely and had no where else to go so she just decided to merge with Kairi. But given the way she was born, i found it odd that Nami was fading away when she was in contact with Kairi. It's not like she took her body or something like Roxas/Xion taking stuff from Sora.