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(SPOILERS) KINGDOM HEARTS X[chi] - Seeds of Hope



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Arcana-Key

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Oooh my gosh this is such a cool twist ;w; I've been following the story like an addict for a while, so to get an interesting turn like this has really made sitting through and reading translations the best.
Now I just have to wait to see what happened to these Keyblade Wielders. Did some wake up earlier and start the Keyblade training again? Did others just stay sleep until the time was right? Is this how we get the flow of Keyblade masters to the current date? I'm just-- fans self -- super excited to see how they'll work with this in the future.

I'm gonna pray for Ephemera and Skuld to show up now like...
 

Hirokey123

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So here is another direction/theory I just thought of that they could go...and by thought I mean it was a chocolate-induced dream I had last night. >.> Skuld and Ephemera both bare resemblance to Braig so I guess my mind came up with this idea that Braig was their descendant. Which is to say Skuld and Ephemera were the only two wielders that managed to leave the world of unchained and return to reality, during the time when Xehanort was still a kid.

The rest of the Dandelions were all still trapped in stasis and Ephemera who was charged with leading the Dandelions by Ava needed to figure out a way to free the rest of them. To that end Skuld and Ephemera settled down together in Radiant Garden because of its similarity to Daybreak town, to do research on finding a way to free them. And though they never told anyone that they weren't from the ancient past they spread their tale around in the form of a fairytale which Kairi's grandmother heard as a child. They were never able to figure out how to free the Dandelions and eventually became too old to continue and instead passed their duties down to their bloodline, of which Braig is the most recent member of. So now it was up to Braig to free and lead the Dandelions and one day Xehanort appeared and offered him a way to do just that, and so Braig made a deal Xehanort helps him free the Dandelions and in return Braig acts as Xehanort's right hand man.
 

Seighart

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Okay I skimmed through some things and ideas just kept coming so I'm going to type them up now and reread things. I assumed that the Dandelions were the kids also.

When it comes to Chi being in the real world...if so, then how are Donald, Goofy, and Mickey existing? That Mickey is from after BBS, but he still has the star shard. How are they in the past?

As far as being Unchained...I think he has to do with being immune to falling into sleep, or being able to willingly traverse the two dimensions. Being able to enter some ones dreams in the first place is a feat in its own isn't it? Eph is diving into Players and Skulds dreams somehow and giving them messages.

Perhaps...Ava and Eph are doing something similar to what Joshua was doing with Neku and the other Twewy cast members. I always thought that subplot was a little too complex for something so early in the game. Joshua=Ava with trying to using the fragments of the past to create a new world because of the "current" world being destroyed. Eph=Neku with being in said New World (Realm of Sleep) reliving things as the way they were.

The outside world comment can be pretty simple. The world had Keyblade Wielders, but what of other parts of the world? Maybe she was saying "outside world" as an example of talking about people outside of the Unions Conflict? Not everyone is a Wielder.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Dang it, Extra! I was just about to say that about Skuld, but you totally ninja'd me. Haha:)

Anyway, as for Ava's greed... I'd have to say it's that she didn't let the Keyblade die--and even seemed to think it, and its wielders, were needed in the next world--and by doing that, she allowed the weapon that caused all of the problems we see here to pass over, and now the world's about to be destroyed in KHIII, probably.

She should've just forgotten about the Keyblade entirely. Which sounds harsh, because then that probably means she should've just let everybody die--because I don't think we've seen a way that someone can give up their Keyblade yet?

Or, at the very least, she should have told them to not keep up the Master and Apprentice thing:

That way the Keyblade wouldn't have been passed onto anyone again (though her dandelions would've been there to rebuild the lost world with the light of their hearts still), and the Masters wouldn't have been able to spread their prejudice and ideas to pupils, who ended up furthering their views into conflicts with each other.

Also, I still think Ava could be the Master of Masters. I know that Chirithy said "...My Master, he who created me", but now that we know that Vulpeus has illusion powers and has changed her appearance before (even pretending to be some of the guy foretellers in this very mission!), I'm not ruling anything out. LOL.

Why would she renounce to her Keyblade, let alone condone the extinction of Keyblade Wielders? What would happen to the human race if darkness once more entered the Realm of Light? Who, or what would protect them?

These might be the reasons as to why Lady Ava plans beyond the Keyblade War to preserve the Keyblade Wielders.
 

U.N. Owen

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Is Skuld among these characters Ava is collecting? If so, I did some research and her name is derived from a valkyrie in Norse mythology. Apparently, she is part of a group of three that affect events in the world, with Skuld affecting the future. Perhaps this could foreshadow a greater role towards the end of chi? That would certainly add some credence to your theory. :)

Skuld can also be short for Skulduggery which means trickery. But today threw that theory out the window. Maybe.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Aren't we all forgetting something really important here?

What was the last thing that we the players saw of Ephemera? When he got corned by that person in the Organization cloak, right?

Now, maybe there's a chance Ava stepped in and bested that person and saved Ephemera--and afterwards explained everything to him, and that's when he agreed to become one of her dandelions.

But the fact that we didn't see what happened with the Organization member, and Master Ava didn't even mention him to the Player, Skuld, and Chirithy when talking about what happened to Ephemera, is suspicious to me.

Maybe Ephemera's not safe, after all?

Unless Ava was posing to be the Organization person that he saw, for whatever reason, which kind of makes her seem all the more suspicious, tbh.
 

PiliChain23

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Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Aren't we all forgetting something really important here?

What was the last thing that we the players saw of Ephemera? When he got corned by that person in the Organization cloak, right?

Now, maybe there's a chance Ava stepped in and bested that person and saved Ephemera--and afterwards explained everything to him, and that's when he agreed to become one of her dandelions.

But the fact that we didn't see what happened with the Organization member, and Master Ava didn't even mention him to the Player, Skuld, and Chirithy when talking about what happened to Ephemera, is suspicious to me.

Maybe Ephemera's not safe, after all?

Unless Ava was posing to be the Organization person that he saw, for whatever reason, which kind of makes her seem all the more suspicious, tbh.

Let's not forget the dream that started it all given by that unknown Chirithy, later probably the same one instigated a meeting with Ephemera after being physically affected by the darkness. And when we last saw that cat, it was a freaking Nightmare! If we assume it's Ephemera's companion, we may reconsider trusting Ava and that grey hair kid.
 
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Here are my thoughts:


• Although when Sora entered the Realm of Sleep, he didn't relive things he had already experienced, but rather, relived things the Sleeping Worlds experienced.


• In a way you could say Sora was in a dream, in another way you could say he was in the memories of the Sleeping Worlds. He was reliving those things the Sleeping Worlds experienced through dreams.


• The Realm of Sleep is most definitely a space separate from here.

With these arguments in mind, it leads me to think that Master Ava was referring to the Realm of Sleep when she said "outside" world.
Ephemera: The Lux that we are recovering is not the light of the worlds from the fairy tale. Those worlds are an illusion, like a three-dimensional projection. What we've been recovering is actually the light of this world.

...

Strictly speaking, the world we are on now is joined physically to countless existing worlds. But, it's impossible to go to all those worlds to recover Lux. So, we make worlds that never were appear here in this place. This set up is how we can actually recover the Lux of far-off places.

Oh, and! I tried investigating how the system works.

And, I'm pretty sure that the source of those illusory worlds are the Tomes of Prophecy that the Foreteller of each Union holds.
Going by this how do we know the "outside world" isn't also an illusion like the others? Ava could be lying to gather pawns for some reason.

That or these dandelions are the wielders Xehanort will revive for his war since you can't technically have a war with 20 people.

Dang it, Extra! I was just about to say that about Skuld, but you totally ninja'd me. Haha:)

Anyway, as for Ava's greed... I'd have to say it's that she didn't let the Keyblade die--and even seemed to think it, and its wielders, were needed in the next world--and by doing that, she allowed the weapon that caused all of the problems we see here to pass over, and now the world's about to be destroyed in KHIII, probably.

She should've just forgotten about the Keyblade entirely. Which sounds harsh, because then that probably means she should've just let everybody die--because I don't think we've seen a way that someone can give up their Keyblade yet?

Or, at the very least, she should have told them to not keep up the Master and Apprentice thing:

That way the Keyblade wouldn't have been passed onto anyone again (though her dandelions would've been there to rebuild the lost world with the light of their hearts still), and the Masters wouldn't have been able to spread their prejudice and ideas to pupils, who ended up furthering their views into conflicts with each other.

Also, I still think Ava could be the Master of Masters. I know that Chirithy said "...My Master, he who created me", but now that we know that Vulpeus has illusion powers and has changed her appearance before (even pretending to be some of the guy foretellers in this very mission!), I'm not ruling anything out. LOL.
Why would she renounce to her Keyblade, let alone condone the extinction of Keyblade Wielders? What would happen to the human race if darkness once more entered the Realm of Light? Who, or what would protect them?

These might be the reasons as to why Lady Ava plans beyond the Keyblade War to preserve the Keyblade Wielders.
Light is right in this situation. The keyblade is the source of the cause, getting rid of it would've been for the best. Keep in mind the darkness plaguing worlds now was brought on by a keyblade wielder.

Everything in the new world after the war was isolated and peaceful until a wielder, Xehanort, using both his knowledge of the keyblade and as his older self the keyblade itself he has basically caused every major conflict. The keyblade basically brought darkness back rather than protecting against it.

Yes it gives one the means to fight it but there wouldn't be a huge, universal, common enemy to combat had the keyblade went extinct.

Even the heartless which are darkness incarnate weren't able to come into the realm of light in massive numbers, or numbers enough to do harm in general, until Xehanort. The old Nort could summon a few by hand as seen in BBS and the apprentice Nort actually let them swarm in.

All of KH's major world potentially destroying conflicts were brought on by the keyblade and it's use.
 

Audo

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All of KH's major world potentially destroying conflicts were brought on by the keyblade and it's use.
The Heartless Invasion was not created by the Keyblade, it was created by scientists. The Disney villains did not cast hundreds of worlds into darkness by use of the Keyblade either. The biggest problem is not the Keyblade in the New World, it's Xehanort. He's also proven that, Keyblade or not, he can cause irreparable harm. And without Keyblades, people wouldn't really be able to stand against him (or the Heartless, or the Organization, or the Nobodies and so on).

Idk, it seems a little silly to paint Keyblades as the sole source of conflict in the world, when really from what we've seen it's just been Xehanort, who happens to be a Keyblade Wielder.
 

WithMapleSyrup

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What if in order to the dandelions are in the realm of sleep but have sealed away their hearts somewhere else in the realm(like inside the 7 princesses or something) so that they wouldn't age. Then they "key to return hearts" could be what yen sid tells sora to find so that he can give them back all their hearts.
 

Extra

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Okay I skimmed through some things and ideas just kept coming so I'm going to type them up now and reread things. I assumed that the Dandelions were the kids also.

When it comes to Chi being in the real world...if so, then how are Donald, Goofy, and Mickey existing? That Mickey is from after BBS, but he still has the star shard. How are they in the past?

I'm sure it mentions somewhere that the Tome Of Prophecies has the power to predict and even manifest future worlds and events. Theoretically, could all the worlds we visit in Chi not actually be in existence yet, and are simply products of the Tome? After all the background of the world select screen shows pages from the Tome, ones with pictures of Heartless. Chances are that Mickey, Donald and Goofy probably don't even exist this early in the timeline, and are also products of the Tome.
 

Alpha Baymax

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When it comes to Chi being in the real world...if so, then how are Donald, Goofy, and Mickey existing? That Mickey is from after BBS, but he still has the star shard. How are they in the past?

As far as being Unchained...I think he has to do with being immune to falling into sleep, or being able to willingly traverse the two dimensions. Being able to enter some ones dreams in the first place is a feat in its own isn't it? Eph is diving into Players and Skulds dreams somehow and giving them messages.

Perhaps...Ava and Eph are doing something similar to what Joshua was doing with Neku and the other Twewy cast members.

That's not the real Mickey, Donald and Goofy: they're illusions projected from The Book of Prophecies. Thing is, we haven't the slightest clue as to who's projecting those illusions. As far as Ephemera jumping into dreams is concerned, maybe he too is a Dream Eater? it's not out of the question to assume that because Riku is Sora's Dream Eater.
 

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Foreteller: You avoided being swallowed by your anger and sadness--you fought well.
(The Foreteller glows and reveals themselves to be Master Ava.)
Chirithy: Lady Ava...

So do I infer correctly from this part that regardless of which "your" Foreteller is, the one confronting you is always Ava/Vulpeus in magical disguise?

If that's the case then it is worth to point out that such illusion powers are perfectly suited to be used to turn the Foretellers against each other as it allows to impersonate each one of them.
Now it remains to figure out if all Foretellers have this ability or if it is only Ava, which would be strangely fitting for her as a fox, or rather, the Kyubi-no-kitsune aka the nine-tailed-fox which is often depicted having such shapeshifting powers.

Ava: At the end, this world will face a Keyblade War.
Skuld: A Keyblade War...
Ava: It's already unavoidable...

Also an interesting bit as Ava specifically says the War is "already" unavoidable which implies that it was not always unavoidable (and thus not "Destiny"-shit) but that it came thus far due to actions taken from all parties involved.

So my assumption that by frantically trying to avert the prophecy the Foretellers themselves brought it to a point where it will become true isn't too far off.

Ava: Soon, the conflict will begin.
Fighters who share the same wish to protect the light, divided by nothing but a difference in Union, will make enemies of the friends they once competed with.
I myself do not know how long I can continue to guide them true.
Perhaps I will be swallowed by my own darkness, and swing my own Keyblade in the middle of the strife.

Well Ava, DUH, it was a throroughly stupid decision to divide those who essentially share the same wish into competing unions in the first place.
It is very easy for competitions to degrade into outright hostility when one gives the right incentives.
 

Ballad of Caius

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So my assumption that by frantically trying to avert the prophecy the Foretellers themselves brought it to a point where it will become true isn't too far off.
Or perhaps Lady Ava instigated the war? Or maybe she thought that by making Unions suspect one another, that would distract them from collecting Lux, the object that could be causing the world to plunge into darkness?
 

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Just a minor thought here. The real names of Unicornis, Vulpeus, Ursus and Anguis all corresponds with the sins their animal motifs symbolises. Except for Leopardos. He is supposed to be gluttuny, which could easily be something like a Boar (Porcus or Verres). Now the sin of pride should be a lion, which in latin is Leo. Leo, Leopardos. Why would Nomura choose to name one of the Fortellers Leopardos when an other animal would be more fitting and there is a possibility someone with a lion motif exists? I'm saying, what if Pride is the sixth and ha somehow killed the real Gluttony and impersonated him? Or simply I overthink stuff and either there is no Pride, or he gets a different animal. A Horse wouldn't make much sense tough, when we have a Unicorn.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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Just a minor thought here. The real names of Unicornis, Vulpeus, Ursus and Anguis all corresponds with the sins their animal motifs symbolises. Except for Leopardos. He is supposed to be gluttuny, which could easily be something like a Boar (Porcus or Verres). Now the sin of pride should be a lion, which in latin is Leo. Leo, Leopardos. Why would Nomura choose to name one of the Fortellers Leopardos when an other animal would be more fitting and there is a possibility someone with a lion motif exists? I'm saying, what if Pride is the sixth and ha somehow killed the real Gluttony and impersonated him? Or simply I overthink stuff and either there is no Pride, or he gets a different animal. A Horse wouldn't make much sense tough, when we have a Unicorn.

I mentioned the idea a while back, and I know another forum did just a few pages ago, so I personally don't think it's out of the question that the Sixth might be impersonating one of the Foretllers, personally:) Especially since we now know of Ava's illusion powers--that the others might have--that would make such a thing easy.

...
So, I'm trying to figure out if the names and sins work with the characters going off of the Rebirth theory.

I can't really see Kairi as greedy, honestly, unless we count her wanting to go with Sora and Riku, even though that may not be the best idea for everyone else's sake? Perhaps Naminé could count as Kairi here, for what she did to Sora in trying to bring his heart closer to her in CoM? I know that that was the Organization's fault, but still.

The only time I can imagine Aqua as envious is with her line, "The friendship between boys... it almost makes me jealous", but do you guys think that's enough?

Perhaps Ventus is gluttonous for trying to make some new friends in BbS, and somewhat trying to replace his old ones when things got bad between them? Vanitas' affinity for darkness--or even how he at first wanted the light to save him in the BbS novel, if that's at all true--could also count.

We've definitely seen Riku be wrathful towards people who've threatened his friends before, yep. That's probably the one that fits one of our current heroes the best, actually.

As for Terra being sloth... That's the one I see the least. Unless we just point out him being slow at running? LOL. Or moreover, that he's somewhat slow to figure things out and often got tricked that way?

IDK. What do you guys think?
 

Extra

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Perhaps, instead of personifying the sins the Foretellers are derived from, the theoretical descendants are counterweights, parallels. Whilst Kairi is definitely not greedy, she is perhaps selfless in a way, risking her safety to redeem Sora's Heartless and return the boy to the light. Whilst not envious, Aqua was certainly content with the friendship she, Terra and Ven shared, and sought to maintain it. Ventus seemed rather moderate, not asking for much but giving plenty in return, helping others and restoring their hope. Terra was very impulsive and energetic, always acting and doing. He was always on the run from his innate darkness. And whilst he may be wrathful to his enemies, Riku does all he can to protect his friends, prevent them from coming to harm.
 

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Perhaps, instead of personifying the sins the Foretellers are derived from, the theoretical descendants are counterweights, parallels. Whilst Kairi is definitely not greedy, she is perhaps selfless in a way, risking her safety to redeem Sora's Heartless and return the boy to the light. Whilst not envious, Aqua was certainly content with the friendship she, Terra and Ven shared, and sought to maintain it. Ventus seemed rather moderate, not asking for much but giving plenty in return, helping others and restoring their hope. Terra was very impulsive and energetic, always acting and doing. He was always on the run from his innate darkness. And whilst he may be wrathful to his enemies, Riku does all he can to protect his friends, prevent them from coming to harm.
I like this idea. Perhaps the connection between the Foretellers and the Present Heroes are just a symbolic one and not a literal connection. Perhaps it will be illustrated that the first Keyblade War happened and the world fell due to the nature of the Foretellers (the sins) but the Heroes in the Present will avoid the Keyblade War by exhibiting the opposite traits this time around, breaking the cycle or something.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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Perhaps, instead of personifying the sins the Foretellers are derived from, the theoretical descendants are counterweights, parallels. Whilst Kairi is definitely not greedy, she is perhaps selfless in a way, risking her safety to redeem Sora's Heartless and return the boy to the light. Whilst not envious, Aqua was certainly content with the friendship she, Terra and Ven shared, and sought to maintain it. Ventus seemed rather moderate, not asking for much but giving plenty in return, helping others and restoring their hope. Terra was very impulsive and energetic, always acting and doing. He was always on the run from his innate darkness. And whilst he may be wrathful to his enemies, Riku does all he can to protect his friends, prevent them from coming to harm.

That's a good point, actually. I was thinking about that idea with Kairi, maybe--as she wouldn't have had a heart of pure light back then, and thus would have acted differently--but I think you're maybe right about it applying to everyone else, too.

In fact, going even further with Riku, if we consider Sora to have (temporarily) been one of his enemies, he was wrathful with him at first, sure. But then every other game after that he's done everything he can to make it up to him, and to protect him: the exact opposite of wrath, really.

He also gets on well with Donald and Goofy now, too, despite having been at odds with them in the past.
 

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I like this idea. Perhaps the connection between the Foretellers and the Present Heroes are just a symbolic one and not a literal connection. Perhaps it will be illustrated that the first Keyblade War happened and the world fell due to the nature of the Foretellers (the sins) but the Heroes in the Present will avoid the Keyblade War by exhibiting the opposite traits this time around, breaking the cycle or something.

I didn't have that in mind at first, but now that I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. It seems that the aim of our heroes in the Dark Seeker trilogy is to 'break the cycle', and them doing so not just through their actions but also through their personalities is quite neat.
 
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