(SPOILERS) KINGDOM HEARTS X[chi] - Seeds of Hope

[Sephiroth0812]

I like this idea. Perhaps the connection between the Foretellers and the Present Heroes are just a symbolic one and not a literal connection. Perhaps it will be illustrated that the first Keyblade War happened and the world fell due to the nature of the Foretellers (the sins) but the Heroes in the Present will avoid the Keyblade War by exhibiting the opposite traits this time around, breaking the cycle or something.

It would certainly prevent repeating previous clichés and avoid another set of clones introduced into the fray.

Thus I would wholeheartly welcome such a more symbolic and "loosened" connection if there has to be one rather than what the "Rebirth"-Theory and its derivates propose.

 

[gosoxtim]

what do you guys how sora fit into stuff?

 

[Kokoko253]

Perhaps, instead of personifying the sins the Foretellers are derived from, the theoretical descendants are counterweights, parallels. Whilst Kairi is definitely not greedy, she is perhaps selfless in a way, risking her safety to redeem Sora's Heartless and return the boy to the light. Whilst not envious, Aqua was certainly content with the friendship she, Terra and Ven shared, and sought to maintain it. Ventus seemed rather moderate, not asking for much but giving plenty in return, helping others and restoring their hope. Terra was very impulsive and energetic, always acting and doing. He was always on the run from his innate darkness. And whilst he may be wrathful to his enemies, Riku does all he can to protect his friends, prevent them from coming to harm.

It makes perfect sense. Masters of the past failed because they were sinful, while the current heroes stand for the seven heavenly virtues.


Kairi: Charity: Will, benevolence, generosity, sacrifice
Riku: Patience: Forgiveness, mercy, sufferance
Aqua: Kindness: Satisfaction, loyalty, compassion, integrity
Ventus: Temperance: Humanity, justice, honour, abstinence
Terra: Diligence: Persistence, fortitude, effort, ethics, rectitude

what do you guys how sora fit into stuff?

I had a theory that he is the reincarnation of the sixth, and that he would have a lion motif with red as base colour. Now that we know the Fortellers are connected to the Seven Deadly Sins, the lion would fit with Pride. Going by this reverse rebirth theory, that would mean Sora is the Humility (Bravery, modesty, reverence, altruism), which fits his character. That would leave the MoM as the Lust with a goat motif.

Strangly, Lust's virtue conterpart is Chastity (Purity, knowledge, honesty, wisdom), and I think that would fit Ansem the Wise.


One question. Are the Fortellers the first Keyblade masters? I don't remember other masters mentioned in chi, but if they are the first, wouldn't that mean the first Keyblades were made slightly before them? What if the MoM made the first Keyblades? (Sorry if this was discussed before)

 

[Venitas]

I'm trying to figure out where Xehanort comes into all of this. I think maybe he was originally one of Ava's Dandelions...maybe Ephemera is his Dream Eater? Maybe Unchained is Xehanort's dreams of his past?

 

[kaidoku123]

maybe the KH Protagonist don't represents the Cardinal Sins but their Reverse Cardinal Virtues (Terra is Diligent, Riku is Patient, Aqua is Kind and etc)

 

[kaidoku123]

That's a good point, actually. I was thinking about that idea with Kairi, maybe--as she wouldn't have had a heart of pure light back then, and thus would have acted differently--but I think you're maybe right about it applying to everyone else, too.

In fact, going even further with Riku, if we consider Sora to have (temporarily) been one of his enemies, he was wrathful with him at first, sure. But then every other game after that he's done everything he can to make it up to him, and to protect him: the exact opposite of wrath, really.

He also gets on well with Donald and Goofy now, too, despite having been at odds with them in the past.

The Reversal of Sin to Virtue is more likely:
Wrath=Patience, Sloth=Diligence, Envy=Kindness, Greed=Generosity, Pride=Humility, Lust=Abstinence, Gluttony=Temperance

 

[kaidoku123]

Also about the Lion representing Pride... I've got a Weird Idea
If the Master of Master is who I think it is (Walt Disney... I know some consider this as a Joke, I could see a Possibility)
Than what about the Story of Lion and the Mouse?
Where the Prideful Lion was saved by a Mouse after he spared the Mouse?
Also remember how Sora used to be a Lion Boy?

 

[kaidoku123]

I mentioned the idea a while back, and I know another forum did just a few pages ago, so I personally don't think it's out of the question that the Sixth might be impersonating one of the Foretllers, personally Especially since we now know of Ava's illusion powers--that the others might have--that would make such a thing easy.

...
So, I'm trying to figure out if the names and sins work with the characters going off of the Rebirth theory.

I can't really see Kairi as greedy, honestly, unless we count her wanting to go with Sora and Riku, even though that may not be the best idea for everyone else's sake? Perhaps Naminé could count as Kairi here, for what she did to Sora in trying to bring his heart closer to her in CoM? I know that that was the Organization's fault, but still.

The only time I can imagine Aqua as envious is with her line, "The friendship between boys... it almost makes me jealous", but do you guys think that's enough?

Perhaps Ventus is gluttonous for trying to make some new friends in BbS, and somewhat trying to replace his old ones when things got bad between them? Vanitas' affinity for darkness--or even how he at first wanted the light to save him in the BbS novel, if that's at all true--could also count.

We've definitely seen Riku be wrathful towards people who've threatened his friends before, yep. That's probably the one that fits one of our current heroes the best, actually.

As for Terra being sloth... That's the one I see the least. Unless we just point out him being slow at running? LOL. Or moreover, that he's somewhat slow to figure things out and often got tricked that way?

IDK. What do you guys think?

Ventus isn't Gluttonous, but Vanitas IS

 

[Ven_Roxas]

What if the "outside world" refers to the actual book of prophecy? Like Ava transports them into the book to withstand the war, hoping in the future, they can be reawakened. Being in the book would "unchain" them from the events of the war. It's not impossible to enter a book in KH. We've seen it with pooh. And if things can be pulled from the book, it stands to reason that there could be a way to put things in the book. So in Unchained, you're playing through the story of Chi as if it was a story in a book. So basically, Chi really happens, and unchained is the story about it in the time of prophecy.
Just a thought, but a viable one imo.
We know the books still exists because Maleficent acknowledges their existence.

 

[ThatWho_Sleeps]

What if the "outside world" refers to the actual book of prophecy? Like Ava transports them into the book to withstand the war, hoping in the future, they can be reawakened. Being in the book would "unchain" them from the events of the war. It's not impossible to enter a book in KH. We've seen it with pooh. And if things can be pulled from the book, it stands to reason that there could be a way to put things in the book. So in Unchained, you're playing through the story of Chi as if it was a story in a book. So basically, Chi really happens, and unchained is the story about it in the time of prophecy.
Just a thought, but a viable one imo.
We know the books still exists because Maleficent acknowledges their existence.

Yeah, but even if that were a plausible case, we'd be left with too many more questions (well, not like that's uncommon in this franchise). Pooh's Storybook stands as the only example of a world inside a book, and even then we have no idea how the actual world was "born" or if it was a world turned into a book/ vice versa. Personally, I think that while the Keyblade has a huge influence in the fate of a world, creating one (by sealing people away in a book) would be a bit too much.

Also you have to remember how delicate Pooh's storybook is. Over time the book has lost its pages, and even a heartless attack has shown substantial damage to Pooh's memory. I think Ava would understand that entrusting the fate of the dandelions in a book would be too risky, especially for a cause like saving the future.

On another note, just finished this and will probably cry myself to sleep ; u ;

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Or perhaps Lady Ava instigated the war? Or maybe she thought that by making Unions suspect one another, that would distract them from collecting Lux, the object that could be causing the world to plunge into darkness?

The question then would be though why would Ava instigate the war?
The way she talks she seems to be very unhappy with the fact that by now the end of the world/Apocalypse, and thus the worst case scenario, seems to be completely unavoidable.

In an earlier story mission after Ava spoke with Ephemera she said this:

If the worst happens, I'll leave it to the children who aren't tied to a Union, like you.

Since an "If" is used it means that by that time of the story things apparently were not already set in stone, but something happened behind the scenes obviously between that story part and the newest one that isn't shown in either X[chi] or Unchained X, although I suspect that information like this will be covered by Back Cover in 2.8.

And now in the current story update she says something along the lines of:
"However, this battle will have no victor, everything will only be annihilated.", inferring that the whole thing does nothing but cause pointless destruction.

She may of course be an exceptional actor and cunning schemer though, true to her union animal as a fox and fox spirits are said to be exceptionally clever and love trickery.
And yet still, with the current information available I can't pinpoint a sound reason as to why Ava would go all those lengths with the dandelions to plant seeds of hope if she herself is the mastermind or the traitor instigating all this?
Well, except of course if the whole "dandelion"-project and its supposed goals are also a lie to conceal what she really wants to do with those wielders who join the project, just like the once thought primary goals of Organisation XIII were a giant deception and lie to begin with in order to conceal more sinister purposes.

One question. Are the Fortellers the first Keyblade masters? I don't remember other masters mentioned in chi, but if they are the first, wouldn't that mean the first Keyblades were made slightly before them? What if the MoM made the first Keyblades? (Sorry if this was discussed before)

According to Nomura they are indeed the very first Keyblade Masters, meaning their Keyblades are either the very first set of blades crafted as copies of the X-blade or the second set if the ominuous Goat-blade predates them.

Of course it is possible that the Goat-blade is a part of this set and has not been seen or referenced yet in any x[chi] material only due to story reasons, but it is also possible that the Goat-blade is/was actually the prototype and very first Keyblade created with the Foreteller's blades based on the Goat-blade.

 

[Tsunayoshi]

Oooh my gosh this is such a cool twist ;w; I've been following the story like an addict for a while, so to get an interesting turn like this has really made sitting through and reading translations the best.
Now I just have to wait to see what happened to these Keyblade Wielders. Did some wake up earlier and start the Keyblade training again? Did others just stay sleep until the time was right? Is this how we get the flow of Keyblade masters to the current date? I'm just-- fans self -- super excited to see how they'll work with this in the future.

I'm gonna pray for Ephemera and Skuld to show up now like...

For some reason I got the image of a keyblade wielder waking up to a burning world in the distance xD Sorta like the "while Rome burned" type of thing. ....Yeahhhh xD

I am super curious about this plot, now more than ever. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the keyblades were originally made for "evil intentions", correct? So... were the first keyblade wielders evil? Or, like, are Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Terra, Aqua, Ven, and Lea the only "good" keyblade wielders currently? (If you don't count Equarus) is it possible that the keyblade wielders of today's 'era' were the only good ones in a long, long time?

Forgive me, my knowledge is kinda... lacking - I apologize for sounding stupid and ignorant ;w;

EDIT; I'm dumb ignore this xD

 

[X_Riky_X]

I got a lot of stuff in my mind after those cutscenes from chi*. First, if all this keyblade barriers are still inside the RoS, then who made the world as we know it? As mentioned in Kairis grandmother story? The question would be, where are they? For only Eraqus and Xehanort to survive? and now more than ever, who is their master? And if Ephemera is "Unchained", that sounds as if he was free from the RoS, not in it.

 

[ThatWho_Sleeps]

For some reason I got the image of a keyblade wielder waking up to a burning world in the distance xD Sorta like the "while Rome burned" type of thing. ....Yeahhhh xD

I am super curious about this plot, now more than ever. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the keyblades were originally made for "evil intentions", correct? So... were the first keyblade wielders evil? Or, like, are Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Terra, Aqua, Ven, and Lea the only "good" keyblade wielders currently? (If you don't count Equarus) is it possible that the keyblade wielders of today's 'era' were the only good ones in a long, long time?

Forgive me, my knowledge is kinda... lacking - I apologize for sounding stupid and ignorant ;w;

EDIT; I'm dumb ignore this xD

Don't worry if you think you sound dumb, the lore is as complex as it gets

Yes, the Keyblade were originally created for less than positive reasons. The original story states that many people came to admire the X-Blade and forged their own imperfected versions in order to fight for the light. The first Keyblade wielders weren't evil per say, they just hadn't realized that their greed had bore darkness to the worlds. That being said, there's also no such thing as an "evil" or "good" Keyblade wielder, it just comes down to how we judge their goals and actions. For example, I personally can't hate Xehanort. I know he's a person who's done terrible things, but I also understand his mindset of curiousity (just not to the degree of making people kill each other though).

The current Keyblade wielders probably aren't only "good" ones left, but the only ones we know with good implications that survived today. There may be fewer Keyblade wielders currently, but there are probably other wielders out there that fight for light, dark, or maybe neither. We just don't know who they are specifically.

The ones we know currently (or this era if you wanna call it that) were not the first "good" keyblade wielders. After the Keyblade wielders created their Keyblades, they instigated the Keyblade War and brought destruction to their world and darkness to many others. The story goes that the light in the hearts of children recreated these worlds, and the surviving Keyblade wielders made it their duty to protect the light. Aqua's story in BBS also shows that Master Eraqus told her that for generations previous Keyblade Masters made it their job to protect the Land of Departure (because if it fell to darkness bad stuff happens) so we can assume that they too were "good" Keyblade wielders.

 

[Ven_Roxas]

Is chirithy bring a dream eater the only proof we have of the realm of sleep being used? Cause everyone is talking as if it's a definite thing. I agree that's pretty compelling evidence, but all that would tell me is that chi is a sleeping world.

WAIT! (This has probably been said)
What if daybreak town is a world between sleep and wake like TWTNW and traverse town? Then once the world is asleep, is there the potential that Ava knows this and, since time doesn't really exist in the realm of sleep, she can somehow give them the ability to leave daybreak town and enter a point in time after the keyblade war? So the keyblade war happens and the world ends up sleeping. Ava catches on and then finds a way to allow the dandelions and access the worlds as they are now. Maybe she stays because she knows that the world is continually experiencing the same events (as it is explained in DDD that dream worlds do) and wants to try to change them.

Or maybe unchained is the not sleeping part of daybreak town. It's unchained from repetition of the sleeping world and the inhabitants are unchained from their fate.

Sorry if that was confusing. Haha.

 

[ShardofTruth]

Is chirithy bring a dream eater the only proof we have of the realm of sleep being used? Cause everyone is talking as if it's a definite thing. I agree that's pretty compelling evidence, but all that would tell me is that chi is a sleeping world.

There is also the fact that Mickey, Donald and Goofy can visit Daybreak Town with their Gummi Ship. The sleeping worlds theory would at least explain why they enter Daybreak Town, but not why they are doing it the way they do (twice!).

Since Chirithy is the only Dream Eater we've encountered so far, I don't think [chi] is set in the sleeping world either. If anything Seeds of Hope kinda reinforced that .

 

[Ballad of Caius]

There is also the fact that Mickey, Donald and Goofy can visit Daybreak Town with their Gummi Ship. The sleeping worlds theory would at least explain why they enter Daybreak Town, but not why they are doing it the way they do (twice!).

Since Chirithy is the only Dream Eater we've encountered so far, I don't think [chi] is set in the sleeping world either. If anything Seeds of Hope kinda reinforced that .

I like Master Spockanort's theory that KINGDOM HEARTS χ[chi] takes place in the distant past; its ending leads to Unchained χ[chi]; and Unchained is the dream recreation of Daybreak Town remembering everything through a dream.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I like Master Spockanort's theory that KINGDOM HEARTS χ[chi] takes place in the distant past; its ending leads to Unchained χ[chi]; and Unchained is the dream recreation of Daybreak Town remembering everything through a dream.

In any case it would be a rather simple and easy to follow chain of events I'd say.

Probably too easy for Mr. I-want-things-surprising Nomura and thus there will be at least two more twists to make the whole thing more muddled.

 

[CrystalRaine]

Whoa guys, I was just reading on Wikipedia about the Greek God of Dreams, Morpheus, and it says 'Morpheus has the ability to mimic any human form and to appear in dreams.'

Doesn't that sound similar to Ava, and possibly Ephemera?

'His true semblance is that of a winged daemon, an imagery shared with many of his siblings.'

Is that a wing I see on Ephemera's back?

Also, Morpheus is one the Oneiroi, the Daemons of Dreams:

Morpheus, the Winged God of Dreams that could take human form in dreams, and communicate messages via dreams. (Ephemera?)

Phobetor, the personification of nightmares that could create frightening dreams; he could take the shape of any animal including bears and tigers. (Chirithy/Nightmare Chirithy?)

And finally, Phantasos, who was known for creating fake dreams full of illusions. Phantasos often takes the form of a woman since his dreams usually deceive people. (Ava?)

 

[Seighart]

So would you say that the Tome can even predict someones reactions? When Donald saw Player (Or was it Mickey?) he asked him "Why do YOU have the keyblade?" or something along those lines, and Mickey questioned the world they were in as if they were traveling to a destination other than DB Town.