HD 1.5 ReMIX Quirks?

[The_Echo]

Wasn't that kindof the point of this thread? Raising awareness? I mean my industry is marketing, but everyone's ethical code for sales differs. I find it odder still that people just blindly accept that "everyone's doing it" because not everyone does, and/or get so defensive of these large corporations, like it's blasphemy to be open and honest, when we all know they're clearly capable of producing better work but churning out mediocre results.

The screenshots are meant to be representative of the final product, but not necessarily the real thing. It wouldn't surprise me if they were made preemptively.

You see it in literally every commercial for food. And also every FMV trailer for a game. And in some film trailers, where you might see a scene not present in the final cut. This is nothing new.

I have to say, replacing the models for Ansem SoD in one game but not the other really makes my teeth grind. :E

They had to rebuild Final Mix from scraps; it was much easier to replace the models with the more recent ones. In fact, it makes me think the original model data may have been part of the data they'd lost.

Considering Re:CoM is largely unchanged, I would assume it would have been more trouble than it's worth to replace Sora and Ansem's models in that game. If they could have justified it given the deadlines they had, I'm sure it would have been done.

 

[Rydgea]

It can't be representative of the final product unless it is in the real, final product...

I know it's nothing new to business. I know. Products are often doctored to generate hype. I'm not looking for excuses, Echo. I know how these things operate. Obviously you're comfortable with this and others aren't. The general point I'm making here is that some people would rather see true representation through and through, and a lot of companies aren't deceptive in order to garner sales. There's a reason I go to a farmer's market and not MacDonald's. lol

Look. I can be grateful we're getting Kingdom Hearts in HD and at the same time be realistic about the flaws found in the outcome.

 

[Chaser]

Doesn't really excuse not getting some fight scenes in. I mean, there already were some (between Xion and Axel, for instance) in the original game. Plus as the reviewer noted, RE: CoM is practically full of them. Of course not every fight needed that treatment, but...I mean, not even Xion, really? Ugh it just gets to me.

It would have taken them more time to make the fight scenes. Re:CoM already was developed with those scenes in, so making the comparison between a 2007 game having fight scenes and a 2013 cutscene compilation is a bit redundent since they are different (ones a game, ones just cutscenes)

Believe me, I would have liked the fights as well, and was disappointed upon initial discovery, but it doesn't bother me because they already went to a lot of trouble with this game and I'm grateful for what they have given us.

Also, here is a link to a video of a side by side comparison of the SD and HD version of 1.5; just to show that even if the scenes don't look like those screenshots, it still looks really good.
Let's Look at the PS2 and PS3 Versions of Kingdom Hearts Side-by-Side

 

[Lnds500]

The only thing that really bothered me was the false marketing stuff (the Riku picture in particular). If you aren't gonna replace it, why say you will? It doesn't make sense. Even more so when you think that they have replaced the models, they didn't lie about that.

As a whole I am very satisfied with what they have done with the game though. I'm listening to the remastered soundtrack right now - it's breathtaking!

 

[ajmrowland]

Wasn't that kindof the point of this thread? Raising awareness? I mean my industry is marketing, but everyone's ethical code for sales differs. I find it odder still that people just blindly accept that "everyone's doing it" because not everyone does, and/or get so defensive of these large corporations, like it's blasphemy to be open and honest, when we all know they're clearly capable of producing better work but churning out mediocre results.

I have to say, replacing the models for Ansem SoD in one game but not the other really makes my teeth grind. :E

Realistically, you're right. I should have remembered that. My own dad used to work in marketing when I was little and it was his ethics that made him leave Kimberly Clarke(the company he worked for)

people dont want to see something that's *not* going to be in the final product and the people who are dishonest in marketing seem to be more successful and prevailent.

 

[Chaser]

I know it's a tired subject now, but really guys why do you trust the screenshots?
I mean take a look at these:

Spoiler Show

Keyblade, no chain.

Spoiler Show

Every command but magic is missing.

Spoiler Show

The deck thingy has vanished, except for two cards.

Spoiler Show

Goofy's butt.

I know it's not really a dev problem but the materialising Keyblade. I mean come on!

 

[Sign]

Anyone notice these issues in screenshots for other titles they've been releasing, or is it just KH?

 

[ajmrowland]

It would have taken them more time to make the fight scenes. Re:CoM already was developed with those scenes in, so making the comparison between a 2007 game having fight scenes and a 2013 cutscene compilation is a bit redundent since they are different (ones a game, ones just cutscenes)

Believe me, I would have liked the fights as well, and was disappointed upon initial discovery, but it doesn't bother me because they already went to a lot of trouble with this game and I'm grateful for what they have given us.

Also, here is a link to a video of a side by side comparison of the SD and HD version of 1.5; just to show that even if the scenes don't look like those screenshots, it still looks really good.
Let's Look at the PS2 and PS3 Versions of Kingdom Hearts Side-by-Side

Must. Resist. Slapping. Stupid. Comment. Writers. Across. Faces

 

[Sign]

Must. Resist. Slapping. Stupid. Comment. Writers. Across. Faces

Can we just focus on the video here?

 

[ChibiHearts249]

Can we just focus on the video here?

Haha, I certainly don't mind, so long as we discuss these things. I like all this input! S'all good.
But let's not get mean, pleez :3

 

[Sign]

Haha, I certainly don't mind, so long as we discuss these things. I like all this input! S'all good.
But let's not get mean, pleez :3

Better to focus on the video Chaser linked than have ajmrowland lead everyone on a tangent about Youtube comments again.

admin out

 

[ajmrowland]

Can we just focus on the video here?

Haha, I certainly don't mind, so long as we discuss these things. I like all this input! S'all good.
But let's not get mean, pleez :3

Yeah, I realized that in the middle if dinner. I don't think too much if the video, though nice mix of both games in the audio.

Better to focus on the video Chaser linked than have ajmrowland lead everyone on a tangent about Youtube comments again.

admin out

?

Well, see you.

 

[alexis.anagram]

It would have taken them more time to make the fight scenes. Re:CoM already was developed with those scenes in, so making the comparison between a 2007 game having fight scenes and a 2013 cutscene compilation is a bit redundent since they are different (ones a game, ones just cutscenes)

OK, but they completely re-animated many scenes from the DS game anyway. It wasn't just a matter of up-scaling with Days; much of the content would have been created from scratch regardless. They could have done fight scenes, they chose not to; or they chose to prioritize other things given their deadlines, fair enough. Either way, that really detracts from my enjoyment of the compilation.

it doesn't bother me because they already went to a lot of trouble with this game and I'm grateful for what they have given us.

Well, to quote Rydgea:

Look. I can be grateful we're getting Kingdom Hearts in HD and at the same time be realistic about the flaws found in the outcome.

Offering critique is not the same as saying I HATE THIS GAME FOR EVEN EXISTING

Also, here is a link to a video of a side by side comparison of the SD and HD version of 1.5; just to show that even if the scenes don't look like those screenshots, it still looks really good.

I totally agree. I think Final Mix in particular looks astounding in HD. The textures and colors are so pretty and they stand out especially in comparison to the original PS2 release. I just also think there are things they could have done better.

I know it's a tired subject now, but really guys why do you trust the screenshots?

The difference, though, is those screens haven't been deliberately doctored in an effort to make the game seem better than it actually is; if anything, they make the game look like an unfinished product...which is kind of true, all things considered. When we get the game, it's going to be a superior product to what we're seeing there. I doubt anyone can complain about that; it's when the opposite is true that people feel cheated.

 

[Launchpad]

I can't help but feel like whenever someone criticizes KH around here there's an immediate "STOP IT, JUST APPRECIATE IT, STOP BEING INGRATEFUL" parade that immediately shows up. This thread is called 1.5 Remix quirks, not 1.5 Remix appreciation. It's wonderful, we know.

 

[alexis.anagram]

I can't help but feel like whenever someone criticizes KH around here there's an immediate "STOP IT, JUST APPRECIATE IT, STOP BEING INGRATEFUL" parade that immediately shows up. This thread is called 1.5 Remix quirks, not 1.5 Remix appreciation. It's wonderful, we know.

Well, it is a KH fansite, so it's to be expected that there are apologists; at the same time, there's not much reason for someone who just hates the series to be here. Then again, there's really no such thing as having a wrong opinion on any specific game's qualities. We all like to pretend we're right, but unless any of us secretly work for Square, our understanding of the evidence at hand only goes so far.
But yeah, when a thread is aimed at facilitating dialogue for criticism, it's a bit foolhardy to jump in just for the sake of voicing total denial. Just like it's silly to enter appreciation threads and start conflict surrounding whatever it is you don't like. All that being said, welcome to the Internet.

 

[Chaser]

OK, but they completely re-animated many scenes from the DS game anyway. It wasn't just a matter of up-scaling with Days; much of the content would have been created from scratch regardless. They could have done fight scenes, they chose not to; or they chose to prioritize other things given their deadlines, fair enough. Either way, that really detracts from my enjoyment of the compilation.

Like I said before, they made those cutscenes before they decided to make it a movie. They had planned on it being an actual game. I, too, am annoyed that they cut out the bosses, but it was their decision to just leave it at that.

I totally agree. I think Final Mix in particular looks astounding in HD. The textures and colors are so pretty and they stand out especially in comparison to the original PS2 release. I just also think there are things they could have done better.

I agree, there are things they could do better. Things like the camera, but, like the video(imo), that would just be nitpicking.

The difference, though, is those screens haven't been deliberately doctored in an effort to make the game seem better than it actually is; if anything, they make the game look like an unfinished product...which is kind of true, all things considered. When we get the game, it's going to be a superior product to what we're seeing there. I doubt anyone can complain about that; it's when the opposite is true that people feel cheated.

Even with those errors, trust me it still looks better than the actual game.

I can't help but feel like whenever someone criticizes KH around here there's an immediate "STOP IT, JUST APPRECIATE IT, STOP BEING INGRATEFUL" parade that immediately shows up. This thread is called 1.5 Remix quirks, not 1.5 Remix appreciation. It's wonderful, we know.

Wow, okay thanks for your input?
I didn't mention it until this post because I thought it would be irrelevant to the thread, but I'm not 100% satisfied with the game. There have been times when I played it where I just went "That is shit. Why didn't they fix it" or "that screenshots didn't have jagged edges on the character, why am I seeing them now".
Mentioning those would have been nitpicking, just like how I feel the video is made.

 

[The_Echo]

I'm not 100% satisfied with the game. There have been times when I played it where I just went "That is shit. Why didn't they fix it"

It's not really in the nature of an HD collection to fix problems in the initial game. The treatment of Re:CoM is more indicative of standard procedure (aspect ratio, upscaled textures). I'm fairly certain if they hadn't had to rebuild Final Mix anyway, they wouldn't have fixed the camera or changed the Command Menu.

Square went above and beyond what's normal for this sort of project, so I personally don't think it's valid to find fault in things they didn't do.

 

[Shasta]

The review did its job, by simply stating what was thought to be right or wrong about the game. Holding Square accountable for false marketing is entirely acceptable, it wasn't necessarily "lying" to us but rather biting off more than they could chew at the time. At the end of the day, we all still got an HD version of Kingdom Hearts, which was the goal from the start. If anything we should be happy that we even got an HD "remake". Not only was the game upscaled, but we also got assets built from the ground up and re-orchestrated tracks. Square went well beyond the typical HD remastering of a game, but they basically remade the game, seeing as they had only scraps to work with, along with various added features.

Don't just nitpick at things that were going to be inevitable because of different circumstances, but rather, have a sensible reason as to why you would do so. Enjoy the game for what it's worth.

 

[Luap]

So I watched the whole video all the way through. It was a bit painstaking to have to read everything in a video, this should really have been voiced. Whatever though. I'm gonna actually respond to points make in the video.

Doctored photos. To be honest, I found it pretty obvious that the photos were doctored and I don't see how anyone could actually have believed those pictures were real. BUT, I'm gonna act a bit social justice-y and say that you shouldn't victim blame. Yeah, people should have realized that pictures were doctored for advertising, but that doesn't change that fact that bullshots are wrong and Square is in the wrong. Fans that were fooled are gullible. Square though is the wrong doer though. And if you say "well everyone is doing it so it's okay", well that doesn't change that fact that it's bad. It just proves that every company sucks. I mean, isn't Nomura that one who said in an interview that games that don't make money shouldn't have sequels? They gotta make money. Whatever. It still shouldn't be at the expense of the consumer's experience. They should make a high quality product that makes us want it for what it is. And on that note, I do believe that 1.5 looks pretty as hell and is well worth $40. It probably is the best HD collection made thus far, considering most HD collections are just upscaled to run at 720p and sometimes 3D.

Fish faces. I for one do think they should have taken the time to eliminate them, but I also think it's pretty minuscule and isn't a huge thing. After all, it is just an HD remaster. Compared to other HD remasters, what they've done is pretty extraordinary.

Theater mode. Final Mix not getting theater mode is something I was actually unaware of, and I think it's probably the most valid complaint made in the whole video. Like, what the hell. They could have worked that in. Pretty inexcusable.

Triangle and abilities. I think that it adds a lot more good than it does bad, considering the only bad is that it interferes with Donald and Goofy, a feature isn't very important anyways. They probably should have found a way around it, but it does more good than bad so I don't mind.

Lip sync. The original Final Mix, while only released in Japan, had the English voices. They used Final Mix as the base to create 1.5's version, so I guess that's how the Japanese lip syncing got screwed up. Still, it's still not a big problem. Many games don't even have lip syncing between regions, so this isn't much of an issue.

Sephiroth. Seems to be a glitch mostly. Makes me wonder if that issue was present in the original Final Mix though. Hm. Is whatever though.

Cards and Xion. This is really the only thing that I find to be a dumb complaint. like what.

 

[Zephyr]

I wonder if updates/patches are still possible for the game? Seeing how Re:Chain of Memories includes Keyblades from Days and not Kingdom Hearts II like the PS2 version of Re:Chain of Memories, I wonder if they will be added in later? And perhaps they can fix other things as well like the fish faces/etc.