HD 1.5 ReMIX Quirks?

[ChibiHearts249]

http://m.youtube.com/?reload=7&rdm=tx0p05dn#/watch?v=VZYOARp9WDk
(video is called "Kingdom Hearts HD - 1.5 ReMIX-: A Deep Analysis) the link keeps taking me to the wrong place! My device won't let me fix it, either. Sorry!

I found this video on YouTube, an it has some really great points. It won't stop me from buying it, and I hope it won't stop you either! I just want to know some opinions on this, and if any of it will be changed in the english release.

What do YOU think?

Thank you, Everglow8444, for this video and info!

 

[ajmrowland]

I've seen that video before and I think while they are mostly good points, the stuff he requests is either too much work for the programmers or trivial. We know that days cutscenes are just cutscenes and we don't need a fight in them. If you don't like that, pause it. The doctored screens are unfortunate, and last I checked, model replacement did not mean entirely new facial animations and marketing is a different department.

 

[Chaser]

The video maker was just being picky.
I mean a deep analysis into what a Xion card would have been like? Yeah, cause that's important.
Some of the other stuff like the fish face have been with the series for 11 years and the person is still making a big fuss over it.
Really, playing through the game on 1.5 you don't really notice this stuff. I never noticed the "blurs" in Re:CoM.

 

[ChibiHearts249]

The video maker was just being picky.
I mean a deep analysis into what a Xion card would have been like? Yeah, cause that's important.
Some of the other stuff like the fish face have been with the series for 11 years and the person is still making a big fuss over it.
Really, playing through the game on 1.5 you don't really notice this stuff. I never noticed the "blurs" in Re:CoM.

Yeah, I get the "picky" part. I like the points tho. And "fish face?" I've never heard it called that, haha! I always just say sumthin like, "That's right, you evil crony! I'm puttin mah ugly face on and ima whup ur scrawny buttox! >" Or something to that effect :3 I usually also provide my own bad guy pleas and death noises, too. "no, pleez don't keeel meeeee! Bleh, dead."

But I digress. I don't mind that they didn't change certain things about the ReMIX. I just wanna play it on my PS3! Whoo!

 

[alexis.anagram]

The video maker was just being picky.
I mean a deep analysis into what a Xion card would have been like? Yeah, cause that's important.

Well yeah, that might be picky. But pointing out blatant misdirection on the part of Square's marketing? That's kind of a big deal, at least to me.

Really, playing through the game on 1.5 you don't really notice this stuff. I never noticed the "blurs" in Re:CoM.

Whether or not you noticed it isn't really the point. The idea behind spending money on this product is that you get a higher definition, revamped, extra graphically special (lol I know redundant) version of the game. If you're not getting that...or if (IF, I will emphasize before things get cray) Square is feeding their customers lies to make the game seem better than it actually is...that's a problem. Plus, critiquing the graphics of REMIX is kind of the only point of doing a review of it.

I haven't finished watching the video yet so I don't know exactly where this reviewer takes their complaints, but so far I appreciate them for taking the time to do this with as much depth as they're going into (and thanks Chibi Hearts for bringing it to peoples' attention). I'm intrigued to see whether other review sources pick up on these things when the game gets released in the US. Oooon the other hand, I know nothing and care little about graphics and it really won't change my decision to buy the game in the end. I want my Final Mix.

 

[ajmrowland]

Jesus H. christ. I've spent $40 on less than this, as im sure everyone has depending on the product. Yeah marketing has lies. Commercials are legally obligated to point out exaggerations. Unfortunately, screencaps and bullshots are not.

I can go on, but I dont have the time. To put it short, some people are somehow looking for perfection where it's just not possible.

 

[Chaser]

Well yeah, that might be picky. But pointing out blatant misdirection on the part of Square's marketing? That's kind of a big deal, at least to me.

It's not just Square Enix who do it. There are game companies all over the world that do this.

Whether or not you noticed it isn't really the point.

If you don't notice it, then it doesn't come off as a big deal.

The idea behind spending money on this product is that you get a higher definition, revamped, extra graphically special (lol I know redundant) version of the game.

I get that, but they never really advertised Re:CoM that much. Since there wasn't any new features added to it(except for replacing the special cards) I doubt they really cared on changing that much for the game, as shown by leaving Ansem SoD's old model.

Plus, critiquing the graphics of REMIX is kind of the only point of doing a review of it.

This never seemed like a review to me. It just seemed like someone going "Oh. Hang on. This isn't what I thought it would be. I'm upset now, better show the rest of the world".

I'm intrigued to see whether other review sources pick up on these things when the game gets released in the US.

I doubt they will, other than the major annoyances such as the camera.

 

[alexis.anagram]

I can go on, but I dont have the time. To put it short, some people are somehow looking for perfection where it's just not possible.

Holding Square Enix to the standards they set for themselves is not "looking for perfection," it's...holding Square Enix to the standards they set for themselves. They've marketed the game in a certain way and it's reasonable to expect them to meet the expectations they've established within their consumer base. It's good business. This whole idea that companies are completely unaccountable to their clientele is BS; we keep them in business, they do right by us and not lie to our faces. And people have a right to be upset when they fail on their end. Simple.

Moreover, the video is apparently aimed at downplaying fan expectations (rather than tearing apart Square Enix) and doing a good job of asserting that KH REMIX is not, in fact, the best HD game re-release on the market (as many fans have purported). It's not making wild claims or being ostentatious and cynical for the sake of it (as I often am). It's a great informational piece for people who care about any of the things it sheds light on.

EDIT for chaser responses

It's not just Square Enix who do it. There are game companies all over the world that do this.

And that is relevant to a review of a Kingdom Hearts game how?

If you don't notice it, then it doesn't come off as a big deal.

Unless you do notice it, like this reviewer did. Are you implying it would be a worse game if they fixed this and made it so all players could enjoy the game equally? I have friends who are really good at spying the most insignificant flaw in HD presentation...most of the time I do think they're nitpicking, but some of the issues addressed in this video could really detract from someone's enjoyment of the game. It's not unfair for them to call Square out on it and ask them to do a better job next time.

I get that, but they never really advertised Re:CoM that much. Since there wasn't any new features added to it(except for replacing the special cards) I doubt they really cared on changing that much for the game, as shown by leaving Ansem SoD's old model.

So they just decided to be lazy with it and that's OK? Good critique. If only every game studio could get away with that (I mean, excepting the ones that already do...).

This never seemed like a review to me. It just seemed like someone going "Oh. Hang on. This isn't what I thought it would be. I'm upset now, better show the rest of the world".

Except that it uses screenshots, facts and comparisons, etc to like review the in-game content. So how does it not qualify as a review? What does any other review do differently, besides pointing out what that specific critic liked or did not like about such and such a product? Moreover, what worthwhile review wouldn't address discrepancies between what was marketed to the audience and what was actually sold to them? That's the first thing any attentive critic picks up on; was the "Evil Dead" remake actually the scariest horror movie ever put to screen, yes or no?

 

[The_Echo]

Pretty nitpicky. The blurs in Re:CoM are either negligible or very obviously used to convey force and motion in action scenes. (In the examples given, at least.)

They had a hard enough time reconstructing Final Mix from the data scraps they had left. Understandably they wouldn't elongate development time (and localization time) by using the more detailed facial models more often.

Though I will concur with disappointment over the lack of fights in the Days scenes. Bit of a disservice to those who might not have previously played it. Though, didn't they admit to the Days content being "about 70% of the story?"

The idea behind spending money on this product is that you get a higher definition, revamped, extra graphically special (lol I know redundant) version of the game.

Well, historically HD re-releases are nothing more than the same game adapted to widescreen and given higher-resolution textures. Some games look only marginally different (I couldn't tell a great deal of difference with the Sly Collection, for example). 1.5 well exceeds expectations, by changing the controls in Final Mix, adding some new cards to Re:CoM and turning Days into a movie. It's had a lot more work put into it than most, if not all other HD collections.

 

[Chaser]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
I've been playing 1.5 for a few months now (actually playing it right now) so really these things don't bother me. I guess I can see why someone would be upset after watching this though.

 

[alexis.anagram]

Pretty nitpicky. The blurs in Re:CoM are either negligible or very obviously used to convey force and motion in action scenes. (In the examples given, at least.)

I think the reviewer is saying that they're more blurry in comparison with the PS2 version, which would be a downgrade in quality (or maybe the HD rendering just makes the PS2 version's flaws more apparent? got no clue how this works). No idea if that's a reasonable statement because my eyes see everything but details. If true though, I can see how it would bother folks.

They had a hard enough time reconstructing Final Mix from the data scraps they had left. Understandably they wouldn't elongate development time (and localization time) by using the more detailed facial models more often.

I always forget that they had to put this together from scratch. Always a good thing to note.

Though I will concur with disappointment over the lack of fights in the Days scenes. Bit of a disservice to those who might not have previously played it. Though, didn't they admit to the Days content being "about 70% of the story?"

This is the most annoying thing about the whole game for me, to be honest. I like that Days got the treatment it did, really...but they couldn't be bothered to animate even the most significant battles? Xion's finale scene is jarring even for me, and I know what happens between the cut because I've played it. For a game that claims to be at least partially about getting new fans and existing fans who never cared about the portable titles up to speed, it's a cop out.

Well, historically HD re-releases are nothing more than the same game adapted to widescreen and given higher-resolution textures. Some games look only marginally different (I couldn't tell a great deal of difference with the Sly Collection, for example). 1.5 well exceeds expectations, by changing the controls in Final Mix, adding some new cards to Re:CoM and turning Days into a movie. It's had a lot more work put into it than most, if not all other HD collections.

I see. I've never played an HD re-release before (I just got a PS3 um...yesterday) and I don't really know what the idea behind it normally is. In that case, it might have been a boon for the reviewer to throw in an example that backs up their notion of what an HD remake game should ideally look like.

 

[Jadentheman]

Days[/I] scenes. Bit of a disservice to those who might not have previously played it. Though, didn't they admit to the Days content being "about 70% of the story?"Well, historically HD re-releases are nothing more than the same game adapted to widescreen and given higher-resolution textures. Some games look only marginally different (I couldn't tell a great deal of difference with the Sly Collection, for example). 1.5 well exceeds expectations, by changing the controls in Final Mix, adding some new cards to Re:CoM and turning Days into a movie. It's had a lot more work put into it than most, if not all other HD collections.

Although I feel like they did that as kind of a "sorry to keep you waiting", "sorry for releasing this at the end of the generation, KH3 is coming soon" type of deal.

S-E has been awful this generation, so they are kinda making up for that.

 

[Chaser]

This is the most annoying thing about the whole game for me, to be honest. I like that Days got the treatment it did, really...but they couldn't be bothered to animate even the most significant battles? Xion's finale scene is jarring even for me, and I know what happens between the cut because I've played it. For a game that claims to be at least partially about getting new fans and existing fans who never cared about the portable titles up to speed, it's a cop out.

Days was only made into a "movie" after they had most of made the cutscenes.

I see. I've never played an HD re-release before (I just got a PS3 um...yesterday) and I don't really know what the idea behind it normally is. In that case, it might have been a boon for the reviewer to throw in an example that backs up their notion of what an HD remake game should ideally look like.

Most HD collections are just upscaling.
Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Jak and Daxter are the exact same as the PS2 versions, just in HD. Nomura has made it clear that fixing everything would have been an impossible job with the time they had on this. I think he's actually rather happy with what they got done.

 

[Korai]

Thank you, Everglow8444, for this video and info!

omg i love everglow's videos! I discovered him when the hd remix was announced

Yeah, they could've replaced the "default face" in a couple scenes, and maybe changed the mouth to synch with the japanese dialogue in some of the really important scenes. And I think it's kinda uncool that they showed graphics in media that was actually better than what is in the remix itself, but all in all, this game still looks pretty awesome.
(also, I think it would've been cool if they had xemnas's voice actor record battle quotes for the battle with him. It's not like his identity is a secret anymore)

 

[ajmrowland]

I think the reviewer is saying that they're more blurry in comparison with the PS2 version, which would be a downgrade in quality (or maybe the HD rendering just makes the PS2 version's flaws more apparent? got no clue how this works). No idea if that's a reasonable statement because my eyes see everything but details. If true though, I can see how it would bother folks.

those scenes in the ps2 were rendered in 340p, well below standard definition, so the flaws may be more apparent but it's an grade regardless. No comparison there

 

[ChibiHearts249]

...maybe changed the mouth to synch with the japanese dialogue in some of the really important scenes.

I think that's what really drew me. To be honest, I was laughing my face off at my sister's comment on it. I was like, "Jap Riku/Ansem sounds soooo cool, even when his mouth isn't moving with his words..." Ouch. Poor Japan. Same with the BbS Sora and Riku's facial expressions! I had no idea!

 

[ajmrowland]

Im gonna repeat something i said about tangled's trailers: marketing is meant solely to sell a product; not represent it accurately. Sad

 

[alexis.anagram]

Days was only made into a "movie" after they had most of made the cutscenes.

Doesn't really excuse not getting some fight scenes in. I mean, there already were some (between Xion and Axel, for instance) in the original game. Plus as the reviewer noted, RE: CoM is practically full of them. Of course not every fight needed that treatment, but...I mean, not even Xion, really? Ugh it just gets to me.

Most HD collections are just upscaling.
Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Jak and Daxter are the exact same as the PS2 versions, just in HD. Nomura has made it clear that fixing everything would have been an impossible job with the time they had on this. I think he's actually rather happy with what they got done.

Mm, I see, I see. Yeah, I do think Square did a good job with the game. They probably should have just reeled in their marketing department. I mean, who needs embellishment if the game is this solid.

(also, I think it would've been cool if they had xemnas's voice actor record battle quotes for the battle with him. It's not like his identity is a secret anymore)

It may still be a secret for someone who's never played the game before, and leaving him voiceless maintains the sense of enigma surrounding his appearance. On the other hand, I would never say no to more Paul St. Peter.

those scenes in the ps2 were rendered in 340p, well below standard definition, so the flaws may be more apparent but it's an grade regardless. No comparison there

Interesting. So I guess it was more of an issue with the original than the remake. Or the re-remake in CoM's case.

Im gonna repeat something i said about tangled's trailers: marketing is meant solely to sell a product; not represent it accurately. Sad

It is worth calling companies out on it, though. Every once in a while, they'll be forced to acknowledge their BS, and it's pretty delicious seeing them backpedal. Plus, it can work as preventative measure. I doubt Square cares about some random screenshot, but I'd rather it not become a pattern, you know.

 

[ajmrowland]

It is worth calling companies out on. But prepare to take on the entire marketing industry if you decide tolol

 

[Rydgea]

It is worth calling companies out on. But prepare to take on the entire marketing industry if you decide tolol

Wasn't that kindof the point of this thread? Raising awareness? I mean my industry is marketing, but everyone's ethical code for sales differs. I find it odder still that people just blindly accept that "everyone's doing it" because not everyone does, and/or get so defensive of these large corporations, like it's blasphemy to be open and honest, when we all know they're clearly capable of producing better work but churning out mediocre results.

I have to say, replacing the models for Ansem SoD in one game but not the other really makes my teeth grind. :E