Repliku's Heart



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Walkway

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So as we all know, Repliku is dead. No doubt about it. The problem here is, according to our director, the is no such thing as death in this universe.
As he was "dying" he asked where he would go, and I'm wondering that as well. I don't think he would just fade into nothingness, he did have a heart after all. Anyway onto my theory...

When Riku said "Maybe your heart will go to the same place as mine" it gave me the idea that maybe, because of the Repliku's connection to the original, his heart took refuge within Riku himself as his replicated body faded into nothingness. This wouldn't be too unusual, as Eraqus' heart went inside Terra, I don't think it's too impossible for Repliku's to have gone into Riku.

It bothered me that it seemed like almost everyone in the series has been foreshadowed to return EXCEPT Repliku, but maybe him coming back isn't totally impossible. The director said that everyone inside Sora are only sleeping, waiting to be woken up when they can return the world. So maybe Replica is sleeping too, inside of Riku, waiting to wake up.
 

DiceKiller

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I think Repliku wouldn't want to come back anyway. He couldn't live with the fact that he was just a replica of someone else. To him, only one of them could exist, even if it wasn't him.
 

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He didn't have a real heart in the first place. Let's just say, he was a puppet with strings and had no heart. As long as Namine cared for him, he was alive and kicking. Once she didn't need him, when he tried to hurt Sora, she then cut the strings and he was knocked out for awhile. Then, once Namine disappeared, he inevitably disappeared as well since Namine was not able to keep his strings attached. So in the end, I do believe he just disappeared.
 

AdrianXXII

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I don't see them bringing him back. Unlike Xion, Repliku wasn't really part of his original, so i think it's more likely he's Hearts in Kingdom Hearts. But it's hard to say what really happened to him seeing we still know very little about replicas.
 

Ikkin

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I honestly think that Nomura's statement that there's "no such thing as death" in Kingdom Hearts is... really disingenuous, and not at all saying what it seems to be saying.

I mean, Repliku aside, it's pretty obvious that the characters think death exists. Ansem the Wise even discusses it a bit in the Secret Ansem Report, and the mechanism by which it happens (ie. the soul leaves the body).

I kind of read the statement as "no one ceases to exist completely." I suspect their hearts go to Kingdom Hearts even as their bodies "die," and Repliku's did the same.
 

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He could come back depending on the way his Nobody and Heartless died, IF and thats a big if, he did have a Nobody and a Heartless.
Okay, Repliku did not make a heartless or nobody because DYING DOES NOT CREATE A HEARTLESS OR NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You only become a heartless if your heart is consumed by darkness. And you only become a nobody if your heart becomes a heartless. This is not the same thing as death.

*Walks away mumbling in anger and frustration* Crazy people can't even get one of the basic concepts of the damn series.
 

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I think people have over-interpreted this 'no death in kh' thing. I'm more inclined to believe that they mean there's no death in the Eastern sense, as in 'when you die the piece of you that exists as you dies and the energy that is your soul is reincarnated/whatever'. I guess the Western concept of death in contrast is 'when you die that little piece of you that exists as you goes to either heaven or hell and exists in some kind of afterlife'.

When Nomura said 'there is no death', I believe what he meant was 'that little piece of you that exists as you does not die'. As in, the soul of that 'person' just goes to sleep and doesn't just vanish or get broken down and recycled. This already made sense in the KH canon when you consider the Heartless/Nobody situation;
Heart-->heartless
Body-->Nobody
soul-->dies
But when you kill both the heartless and the nobody under special circumstances, remember it was said a loooong time ago that the 'person' (literally, the soul) comes back? So if they die when they become a heartless, and yet can come back, that 'soul' must still exist out there somewhere. As in, not 'dead' in the literal 'they're gone and back in the cycle of rebirth' sense of dead, just... not alive in a body with a heart.

And anyone who believes in heaven, hell, or life after death in general shouldn't find that concept weird (don't wanna start a pointless religion flame war here though).

I also think that once a soul has left and the person is dead, it is extremely difficult and would take some very special circumstances to bring them back anyway. I don't think it can happen for just any old person.

That said, I don't think there's any point to bringing the Riku Replica back. First of all it would ruin the point of his character development (coming to terms with his existence) and second of all, why? He has no friends, doesn't he?
 

AdrianXXII

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I think people have over-interpreted this 'no death in kh' thing. I'm more inclined to believe that they mean there's no death in the Eastern sense, as in 'when you die the piece of you that exists as you dies and the energy that is your soul is reincarnated/whatever'. I guess the Western concept of death in contrast is 'when you die that little piece of you that exists as you goes to either heaven or hell and exists in some kind of afterlife'.

When Nomura said 'there is no death', I believe what he meant was 'that little piece of you that exists as you does not die'. As in, the soul of that 'person' just goes to sleep and doesn't just vanish or get broken down and recycled. This already made sense in the KH canon when you consider the Heartless/Nobody situation;
Heart-->heartless
Body-->Nobody
soul-->dies
But when you kill both the heartless and the nobody under special circumstances, remember it was said a loooong time ago that the 'person' (literally, the soul) comes back? So if they die when they become a heartless, and yet can come back, that 'soul' must still exist out there somewhere. As in, not 'dead' in the literal 'they're gone and back in the cycle of rebirth' sense of dead, just... not alive in a body with a heart.

And anyone who believes in heaven, hell, or life after death in general shouldn't find that concept weird (don't wanna start a pointless religion flame war here though).

I also think that once a soul has left and the person is dead, it is extremely difficult and would take some very special circumstances to bring them back anyway. I don't think it can happen for just any old person.

That said, I don't think there's any point to bringing the Riku Replica back. First of all it would ruin the point of his character development (coming to terms with his existence) and second of all, why? He has no friends, doesn't he?
Well a Nobody is both the body and the soul so it would return to the heart along with the Body.

I agree that there is a concept of after live in KH. My theory is once you're forgotten and have no ties to the world anymore you're dead. If you're remembered you can be brought back.
The main reason for this theory is Maleficent, was brought back by the fairies after they remembered her.
 
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So as we all know, Repliku is dead. No doubt about it. The problem here is, according to our director, the is no such thing as death in this universe.
As he was "dying" he asked where he would go, and I'm wondering that as well. I don't think he would just fade into nothingness, he did have a heart after all. Anyway onto my theory...

When Riku said "Maybe your heart will go to the same place as mine" it gave me the idea that maybe, because of the Repliku's connection to the original, his heart took refuge within Riku himself as his replicated body faded into nothingness. This wouldn't be too unusual, as Eraqus' heart went inside Terra, I don't think it's too impossible for Repliku's to have gone into Riku.

It bothered me that it seemed like almost everyone in the series has been foreshadowed to return EXCEPT Repliku, but maybe him coming back isn't totally impossible. The director said that everyone inside Sora are only sleeping, waiting to be woken up when they can return the world. So maybe Replica is sleeping too, inside of Riku, waiting to wake up.
I've actually brought this point up in the past. I agree with you.

If Repliku is like Xion, then his fate should be comparable to hers. She became a part of her original, so naturally he should become a part of his original.

But people frequently bring up a counterpoint- that Repliku is not the same. He is made of "data" while she is made of memories. To which I say, hogwash.

First and foremost, there is no such thing as a generic "data." Data is comprised of something. Whether it's the pH level of an acid or gigs on a computer, you need to have some kind of units by which that something is measured. And in the case of Repliku, that something is memories. Vexen sampled Riku's memories during that battle, much in the same way that Xemnas sampled Sora's memories when they fought in Hollow Bastion.

In fact, the novel confirms this, as we read Vexen's thoughts when he fights Riku (courtesy of gp♥):

If we did things according to my research, it is theoretically possible to transfer memories and abilities to a doll without the power of the witch.

[...]

With every swing of his blade, his power and memories are being accumulated as data.

[...]

Now all I have to do is plant these memories into that doll, for a start…
But it should be obvious, even without Vexen's thoughts, that Repliku was made from memories as well. Because they're both replicas, it makes no sense that they could somehow be replicated by completely different means and still be classified as the same being.

So then this begs the question of whether or not Repliku had the same effect on Riku as Xion did on Sora. And the answer is a resounding "maybe."
We have potential evidence that Riku lost some of his memories over the course of traversing Castle Oblivion.
Zexion states that the memories of his friends are gone, with only dark memories remaining. Granted, Riku remembers their names, but he does not object to this. So some of his memories may have been leaked to the Replica.

And then there's the possibility that this was an outright bluff. Unlike Riku, Sora's memories were being manually pulled out by Namine, which allowed them to leak into Xion. Plus, Sora already had a Nobody in addition to a replica to which his memories could leak. So Riku is a different case.

Either way, though, there's no doubt in my mind that Repliku was at least made of some of Riku's memories, replicated or otherwise (and Namine contrived new memories on top of these). Therefore, I do think he became a part of Riku.

But he will still be forgotten about by the writers.

That said, I don't think there's any point to bringing the Riku Replica back. First of all it would ruin the point of his character development (coming to terms with his existence) and second of all, why? He has no friends, doesn't he?
Just as there is no point in bringing Repliku back, there's no point in bringing Roxas, Namine, or Xion back, as it would ruin their character development as well. That's why I think, or at least hope, that freeing them from their torment doesn't mean bringing them back.

But if that's the case, then there's no reason why Repliku shouldn't be freed from torment either.
 

AdrianXXII

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I've actually brought this point up in the past. I agree with you.

If Repliku is like Xion, then his fate should be comparable to hers. She became a part of her original, so naturally he should become a part of his original.

But people frequently bring up a counterpoint- that Repliku is not the same. He is made of "data" while she is made of memories. To which I say, hogwash.

First and foremost, there is no such thing as a generic "data." Data is comprised of something. Whether it's the pH level of an acid or gigs on a computer, you need to have some kind of units by which that something is measured. And in the case of Repliku, that something is memories. Vexen sampled Riku's memories during that battle, much in the same way that Xemnas sampled Sora's memories when they fought in Hollow Bastion.

In fact, the novel confirms this, as we read Vexen's thoughts when he fights Riku (courtesy of gp♥):



But it should be obvious, even without Vexen's thoughts, that Repliku was made from memories as well. Because they're both replicas, it makes no sense that they could somehow be replicated by completely different means and still be classified as the same being.

So then this begs the question of whether or not Repliku had the same effect on Riku as Xion did on Sora. And the answer is a resounding "maybe."
We have potential evidence that Riku lost some of his memories over the course of traversing Castle Oblivion.
Zexion states that the memories of his friends are gone, with only dark memories remaining. Granted, Riku remembers their names, but he does not object to this. So some of his memories may have been leaked to the Replica.

And then there's the possibility that this was an outright bluff. Unlike Riku, Sora's memories were being manually pulled out by Namine, which allowed them to leak into Xion. Plus, Sora already had a Nobody in addition to a replica to which his memories could leak. So Riku is a different case.

Either way, though, there's no doubt in my mind that Repliku was at least made of some of Riku's memories, replicated or otherwise (and Namine contrived new memories on top of these). Therefore, I do think he became a part of Riku.

But he will still be forgotten about by the writers.



Just as there is no point in bringing Repliku back, there's no point in bringing Roxas, Namine, or Xion back, as it would ruin their character development as well. That's why I think, or at least hope, that freeing them from their torment doesn't mean bringing them back.

But if that's the case, then there's no reason why Repliku shouldn't be freed from torment either.
I originally wanted to object that Repliku and Xion aren't the same but after reading the rest I have to say you've got some good points.
Though i still think Xion and Repliku aren't quite the same. Seeing Xion really seemed to have become part of Sora a manifestation of his memories, while Repliku seemed more like a independent being. I think Replicas are created by information, be it Memories or another form.
If it's true and Repliku lies within Riku, then I find it odd they forgot him. Maybe he's not in torment ans is actually relieved not to be a replication of someone anymore but part of it again.
 

Allister Rose

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what i tihnk nomura meant by no concept of death in kh, is that death does exist, but isn't a major concept in kh overall.

so death could happen in kh, but at the same time won't have a big impact on the universe. It's safe to say the main characters wouldn't die. but maybe minor characters or villains could.
 

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He could come back depending on the way his Nobody and Heartless died, IF and thats a big if, he did have a Nobody and a Heartless.
He did not. He faded away. Heart, body and soul.

I honestly think that Nomura's statement that there's "no such thing as death" in Kingdom Hearts is... really disingenuous, and not at all saying what it seems to be saying.
That's a contradiction to KH1, but still.

I mean, Repliku aside, it's pretty obvious that the characters think death exists. Ansem the Wise even discusses it a bit in the Secret Ansem Report, and the mechanism by which it happens (ie. the soul leaves the body).

I kind of read the statement as "no one ceases to exist completely." I suspect their hearts go to Kingdom Hearts even as their bodies "die," and Repliku's did the same.
If that's the case, there'd be nothing holding Repliku's heart to this plane. He'd rather go to Kingdom Hearts than exist.
 

Fractured_Heart628

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Wasn't Riku Replica just a copy of Riku created by Vexen with data. I think he honestly went back to Riku.
 

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Let's assume Nomura reveals in an interview that Repliku will make a comeback, what will his role be? As a flashback scene?
 

Allister Rose

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i still don't believe tht death overall in the kh universe doesn't exist. like genocide said, it contradicts kh1.
 

Ikkin

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i still don't believe tht death overall in the kh universe doesn't exist. like genocide said, it contradicts kh1.
It doesn't just contradict KH1. It contradicts Chain of Memories (Repliku talking about death), KH2 (the Secret Ansem Reports), and Birth by Sleep as well. It also contradicts multiple Disney worlds, like Olympus Coliseum (Lord of the Dead) and Pride Lands (Mufasa).

I'd have to go with Goldpanner's analysis of this. Nomura's essentially attempting to explain something akin to our own cultural assumption (that the individual does not cease to exist after the death of the body) to an audience who assumes the opposite. It just seems like he's making a bigger claim than that because the original context is gone, and we tend to assume there's more to something when someone goes and explains something we already know.
 
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