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Black Coat Riku in KH3D



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Oracle Spockanort

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Okay, so I'm going to be a bit philosophical so forgive me for the next few paragraphs. Also, it is rather hard to express abstract concepts since we all seem to keep trying to impress set belief and concrete words to the concept of Sleep.

So all begins and ends with Sleep, correct?

Humans would call the period of time before birth something like "non-existence". I suppose the closest thing to compare "non-existence" to is "death", although I'm only trying to recognize that there is a point before "life". In Kingdom Hearts, that is probably also considered Sleep, since even humans fail to acknowledge what "non-existence" is before life with any concrete term (or at least in the English language I have not seen one.)

Some religions would say during that time the spirit exists in a state of limbo, or that the spirit has yet to be created. Also, some religions would say that the spirit goes to this limbo to be reincarnated, or that it goes to an afterlife. This seems like what the Realm of Sleep is. I wouldn't call it a limbo or an afterlife. It seems more liminal than what most views on an afterlife are. In the RoS there is existence, even though we can assume that it is a place where things not existing in the RoL (or even the RoD) go. Nomura has also stated that it is the closest thing to an afterlife.

Ansem the Wise stated that "So many are still waiting for their new beginning. Their Birth by Sleep. Even me, and even you." which, from one reading, could mean that while it is possible to "begin" anew, many can't or just have yet to.

Even if with all of that, it does not exactly mean it is an afterlife and all things that "die" in the RoL (and RoD) go to the RoS. It just means that there is no "death" in Kingdom Hearts and there is only this liminal state of existence within the RoS. Things are just as easily created within the RoS as they are destroyed, so there is no way to call it an afterlife.



TL;DR? While Nomura said the RoS is the close to being an afterlife, he did not say it was one.
 

rac7d

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Re: Riku in KH3D

For beings that were real, yes. Repliku was a fake, I'd accept it if he appeared there, but for now I wouldn't expect him in there.

Well what makes a real being in that universe? Having a heart, emotions, thoghts?
 

Chaser

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Re: Riku in KH3D

Well what makes a real being in that universe? Having a heart, emotions, thoghts?
He was a doll, a puppet. He has emotions, he has a heart, but he wasn't brought in the natural way.

Now before you all run at me yelling "BUTT XION...!!!!!!1!!" we have yet to see Xion in the Realm of Sleep, plus she might just be visions in Sora's mind.
 

Chaser

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Re: Riku in KH3D

*RUNS AT YOU*

BUTT XION!!!!!!12one
oh noes
tumblr_lx5ww4Hj1F1qc9yiv.jpg
 

rac7d

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Re: Riku in KH3D

He was a doll, a puppet. He has emotions, he has a heart, but he wasn't brought in the natural way.

Now before you all run at me yelling "BUTT XION...!!!!!!1!!" we have yet to see Xion in the Realm of Sleep, plus she might just be visions in Sora's mind.

Lol i wasnt gonna say anything about her, but the point i was going to make has now chnaged due to ethys, analysis on The sleep/afterlife theory.
 

Chaser

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Re: Riku in KH3D

Lol i wasnt gonna say anything about her, but the point i was going to make has now chnaged due to ethys, analysis on The sleep/afterlife theory.
Could you still say it anyway, I want to hear it.
 

Sephiroth0812

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See, this was my point in my long theory post. Everybody is trying to place a concrete term on an abstract concept.

Not to mention a concept we can't yet explain since the game isn't out yet and we also don't know how the term "Birth by Sleep" coined by Ansem the Wise actually works and further what the whole Sleep-life-sleep-circle (if it is really that way) means for incomplete existences (or "fake" ones) like Riku Replica, Roxas, Xion or Naminé. It goes without question that those characters all developed their own sense of self and that also does have a meaning.

As for the Data-Riku, it could very well be possible that he appears, but not as an inhabitant of the RoS but a visitor like the real Sora and Riku.
In that case we might get to see Data-Sora as well again (Nomura also hinted two times that he might have developed an own heart, as well as a statement from Mickey in-game regarding this).
After all, it was said in Coded that the Data-existences need to pass on what they have learned to their real counterparts...this might just be a minor plot point in DDD as well, connecting it further with Coded.
 

OblivionPrincess

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Maybe its neither Data Riku or the Riku Replica. We saw in the trailer that 'Ansem' was going to be in the game and it kept looking like he was stalking Riku like in CoM. Maybe in DDD the Black Coat Riku is just an illusion to tempt Riku down the path of Darkness again by confusing him. Or it might have something to do with Xehanort, as we know that he'll be in a Black Coat during the game. Who knows?
 

Chaser

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For me abstract things go over my head. Same with subtleties.
I've been this way since I've lived. lol
I'm the same :p
Maybe its neither Data Riku or the Riku Replica. We saw in the trailer that 'Ansem' was going to be in the game and it kept looking like he was stalking Riku like in CoM.
We saw Ansem SoD once. And it was for like 3 seconds. How was that enough to convince you he was stalking Riku?
 

JustSnilloc

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We saw Ansem SoD once. And it was for like 3 seconds. How was that enough to convince you he was stalking Riku?

To be fair, we saw the other Riku for about the same period of time... (his is based too much on assumption though)
 

Chaser

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To be fair, we saw the other Riku for about the same period of time... (his is based too much on assumption though)
However we have evidence for that Riku, where as we have no idea why Ansem SoD is there. We suspect Xemnas is looking for dolls with hearts or something. We suspect YX is after Ven's heart in Sora. You guys suspect Repliku died and went to the Realm of Sleep. Us guys suspect that Data-Riku has information to pass onto the real Riku. We have nothing for ASoD.
 

JustSnilloc

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However we have evidence for that Riku, where as we have no idea why Ansem SoD is there. We suspect Xemnas is looking for dolls with hearts or something. We suspect YX is after Ven's heart in Sora. You guys suspect Repliku died and went to the Realm of Sleep. Us guys suspect that Data-Riku has information to pass onto the real Riku. We have nothing for ASoD.

Which is why I say based too much on assumption... Team Data Riku/Riku Replica both have evidence and reasons for their respective Riku to be there, Ansem SoD being there is a surprise in itself and giving him a reason is going a little too far into assumptions
 
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