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KINGDOM HEARTS Union X Finale

Details
Published on May 31, 2021 @ 06:56 am
Written by Cecily
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Kingdom Hearts Union X's finale was released today!

Watch the scenes below with translations by goldpanner! To view all fansubbed main story scenes from the Kingdom Hearts X series, check out this playlist.

Edit 6/9/2021: Finale stealth release for the Global version.

English


Japanese - Fan Translated

(Flashback of Luxu’s conversation with MoM before his departure.)

Luxu: This world is going to end?

Master: Like I said before, right now we have no way to win against the darkness.

We needed more time- time to train all those Keyblade wielders, so that someday, the Keyblade will be passed to those chosen to defeat the darkness.

The Dandelions are seeds of light meant to be sown into the future. This world merely exists to hold the darkness back until those seeds are ready to fly.

Then, the sun will set on this duskless dawn. And our plan will have succeeded at last.

Luxu: I should get going.

(He takes the box and starts dragging it away, when the Master speaks again.)

Master: Oh right, there’s one more thing.

Luxu: Just one?

Master: Remember what I said, about my age-old battle with the darkness?

During the course of that conflict, the darkness abandoned their form, and shifted from physical attacks to attacks on the human heart. In doing so, they were able to take the lives of many of my friends.

But, it was a double-edged sword. You see, I realized that when they threw away their form, they lost their own consciousness.

That brings us to today.

Luxu: So the darkness we're fighting now has no form?

Master: "7 is perfect, and lucky, and bright. 13 is discordant, unlucky: a blight."

As that saying goes, there were originally 13 founding pieces of darkness. These thirteen darknesses expanded, propagating more formless shadows like themselves, and one turned into a whole.

As their numbers grew, a breed of darkness with form came into being - the Heartless.

And the collective without a form became individuals, waiting for the opportunity to nest within those who possess strong hearts.

Luxu: I see…

(The screen gets dark. Images of the other Foretellers appear and rotate around them.)

Master: We cannot defeat the darkness if it remains formless. To make it vulnerable, we need vessels with strong hearts.

That's where you guys come in.

Luxu: You don't mean…

Master: Look, I know that sounds bad, but hey, it wasn't like I was JUST training you to become vessels.

I wanted you to make your hearts so strong that when Darkness took root in them, you wouldn't lose to it.

Luxu: I can't…

Master: Don't forget! This is a battle between human and inhuman.

Don't let sentimentality cloud your goal.

I wouldn't have entrusted the fate of humanity to you guys if I didn't believe in you.

The darkness has thirteen main parts, and among them are seven particularly deadly ones. Those are prime for being locked in our hearts. 

The darkness that take root within us will be divided and conquered.

That's what the Keyblade War is for.

(Back to the room.)

Luxu: ……So the traitor among the Union leaders, the war… It's all for this purpose……

Master: That's right. That passage in the Book of Prophecies is a tool. 

Negative emotions like suspicion and discord create prime nesting grounds for darkness. I needed you all to feel them with all your hearts. 

As conflicting emotions collide, they become amplified.

Thus, the seven strongest of the thirteen darknesses will reside in our hearts.

Luxu: Our hearts?

Master: As for the other six, well.

Five will be locked away in the new Union Leaders who will come after we're gone, and one will stay trapped in this world.

Luxu: I won't let you do that!!

We cannot sacrifice this much!!

Master: What did I just say? Don't let sentimentality cloud the goal.

Sure, those who lose their hearts to Darkness will suffer a crueler, more miserable fate. I've seen it happen to so many people I loved, to my friends, with my own eyes.

But the battle of light and dark isn't a hero's tale.

The fundamental dignity of all those who have hearts is at stake.

I'm not planning to sacrifice anyone.

I'm preparing ways to save them.

Luxu: ……

(Luxu takes the box and leaves.)

Master: May your heart be your guiding key…

Whatever you think, however you feel…

You are the key to everything.

I have high hopes for you, Luxu the traitor…

(In the real world, Daybreak Town continues to be ravaged. Lauriam and Elrena watch as Brain types away at the terminal. Ven is left sleeping in his pod.)

Elrena: How’s it going?

Brain: Hmm… 

I tried to see if the original transfer system between the real and data worlds had a way to bring everyone back in one go, but we might not have enough time for that…

Lauriam: I see…

Brain: There is an alternative.

We may not be able to save every Dandelion, but I think we can bring back those three.

(Two pods open.)

Before that, you two, get in the ark.

Elrena: What?

Brain: If we want to bring Ephemer and the others back, we’ll have to race against time.

You should leave now, just in case.

Lauriam: What did you mean by "another way"?

Brain: I'll send the remaining two pods back to the data world. That should bring them back in time.

Lauriam: I see.

Brain: This is our only shot.

Hurry, get in.

Lauriam: Will you be okay by yourself?

Brain: Right now, you’re the only Union leader certain to make it out of this world.

We're all connected. From Ephemer to me, from me to you. So let me see you off as you pave the way for the future to come.

Lauriam: Alright.

Brain: I don't know when or where you’ll arrive. But, your heart is the waypoint...

Make sure your duty is etched clearly onto it.

Lauriam: I thought that since we couldn't find Strelitzia's data, perhaps people weren't stored as data after all. But I was wrong.

We will find her this time.

Brain: Those feelings will be your waypoint, and lead you to her.

I hope you get to see your sister again.

(The two shake hands.)

Lauriam: We'll meet again. I know we will.

(Lauriam and Elrena enter the pods.)

Brain: May your heart be your guiding key──

(Brain closes the pods and enters the command to send them off, but violent shaking suddenly occurs.)

Lauriam: BRAIN!!

(The ark departs. Brain realizes someone else is in the room.)

Brain: Who's there!?

(He turns around to find a figure in a black coat.)

???: Just you, huh?

(Back in the data world, Ephemer, Skuld and Player wait for Brain to make his move.)

Skuld: Do you think they made it back to the real world safely?

Ephemer: Brain is with them. They'll be alright.

Player: Yeah. He does seem smarter than you, Ephemer.

Ephemer: Excuse me??

(They share a laugh.)

Skuld: It's hard to believe the world is ending.

Ephemer: Yeah. It's so quiet.

(Player suddenly notices something is wrong. They turn around and summon their Keyblade, trying to get the others' attention.)

Player: Hey...

Hey!!

(Skuld and Ephemer realize what's going on.)

Skuld: What??

Ephemer: No way……

(They're surrounded by 4 Darknesses.)

Skuld: Four of them...?

Darkness 1: Don't be nervous. We didn't come to fight.

Darkness 2: We want you to open the gate for us before you leave.

Ephemer: What gate?

Darkness 2: Didn't the first shadow tell you? Our goal is to expand.

We’re going to pass through the portal and infect all kinds of worlds.

Ephemer: And you think we’d just happily comply after hearing that?

Darkness 1: Resistance is futile. You know how strong we are.

Darkness 3: Perhaps you’d prefer if we just take over your body.

(Darkness 2 vanishes and reappears between the wielders.)

Darkness 2: Or, we could consume your friends right in front of you, until you open the gate for us in humiliating defeat. Would that be better?

Ephemer: ……I refuse.

(He summons his Keyblade and slashes at them, but they just disappear. The three wielders move to confront them with Keyblades in hand.)

Darkness 1: How foolish……

(Ephemer looks back at Player and whispers to them.)

Ephemer: (As soon as the fight starts, get into the ark.)

Player: !?

Ephemer: (If only one of us can survive, I want it to be you…)

(Player is reluctant. They lower their Keyblade.)

Player: How foolish……

Skuld: What is it, Player?

Player: This is why humans can never defeat the darkness.

(Player attacks Ephemer to everyone's shock. He's barely able to defend himself.)

Ephemer: What are you doing?

Skuld: Stop!!

(Skuld tries to break them up, but Player bats her away with little effort.)

Player: Player's heart has fallen into the dark abyss.

Skuld: No……

Ephemer: Player!!

Player: Your voice can't reach them now.

Ephemer: You……

Player: Didn't we tell you? We have no form. We cannot be destroyed...

Skuld: You're the one from before. You weren't defeated after all…

Ephemer: Player...

(Player attacks Ephemer, sending him all the way across the room.)

Player: We might give them back, if you open the door.

Ephemer: Never.

(Skuld hurries to his side. The two get ready to do battle against the Player as the Darknesses look on.)

Player: Don't interfere. Just watch.

(Ephemer and Skuld collapse from their battle against the Darkness-possessed Player.)

Player: You should have gotten in the ark…

Ephemer: Stop it……Player……

(They approach the defenseless Skuld and raise their Keyblade, ready to strike.)

Player: Hate me, Ephemer…

That will only sustain us.

Ephemer: Stop!!!!

(Ephemer shoots a beam from his Keyblade right through Player, creating a portal behind them. Player and the Darknesses are sucked in)

Ephemer: I'm sorry……

I'm so sorry……

(He closes the portal.)

(Back with Brain and the black coat.)

???: Just you, huh?

Brain: That's right. Who are you?

???: I am Luxu, a disciple of the Master of Masters.

Brain: What? Lord Luxu, I heard you disappeared before the Unions were formed…

Luxu: That's not important. Tell me, are you a Union leader?

Brain: Yes, I am. My name is Brain.

Luxu: If you're alone, then that means…

(He counts the pods.)

What happened to the other Union leaders?

Brain: One made it out. Two more are still inside the data.

Luxu: Hmm? That only accounts for four, including you. Was the last one struck down?

Brain: Yes……

Luxu: I see……

So, I take it you'll be using this pod?

Brain: No. We have a Dandelion ally still in the data. I'm going to send these two pods into the data. There's still one on that side, which will allow all three to come back.

Luxu: And what about you?

Brain: I'm staying here in this era. There are a large number of Dandelions left in the data world, and I plan to awaken them.

Luxu: Awaken?

Brain: Yes. Lady Ava told me that when a world is consumed by darkness it goes to sleep.

Luxu: That is usually the case, but this data world is different.

Brain: What do you mean?

Luxu: It's a cage built to trap the darkness. Once it's consumed, there's no getting out.

Brain: No……

Luxu: Plus… This unfinished ark you're using? It requires a medium to rebuild your form at the destination, as well as someone who remembers you.

Did you know that before you used it?

Brain: Sort of……

Luxu: Do you have a plan?

Brain: Well……

Only to give what remains of my life to fulfill this duty.

(Luxu approaches Brain.)

Luxu: You're brilliant in every sense of the word.

It'd be a waste if your life were to end here.

(Back with Ephemer and Skuld. Ephemer carries Skuld in his arms as two more pods materialize.)

Skuld: ……Ephemer……

Ephemer: Let's go, together……

(He places her in a pod and looks towards the remaining pod meant for Player. After a brief pause, he gets into his own pod and the two depart the data world.)

(Player lies in the path within the cable leading to , surrounded by the 4 Darknesses.)

Darkness 1: Nice work……

Darkness 2: Using his rage to get him to open the portal…

Darkness 3: We can use this to get to all kinds of data worlds…

Darkness 4: When are you going to get rid of that meatbag? It's fragile, and if it dies, so do you.

(All of a sudden, Player starts laughing.)

Darkness 3: What's so funny?

Player: I'm surprised by how easy the darkness is to fool. Or is it just you guys in particular?

Darkness 4: Wait, you're not……

Player: So even though you don't have forms, you can't pass through unless someone unlocks the way?

What a shame.

(They get up and use their Keyblade to shoot a beam of light across the way.)

Player: Ephemer locked the way in. Now I've done the same to the way out.

You're trapped in this portal cable.

Darkness 1: Did you pretend to be possessed, just to make this happen?

Player: You finally figured it out? We’ve won.

Darkness 1: You wretch───────────!!

(The Darknesses shoot up into the air and zip around in anger. Player falls to the ground in exhaustion as Chirithy arrives to comfort them.)

Chirithy: Player……

Player: I'm sorry…… for dragging you into this.

(They embrace as light engulfs them.)

(Ephemer and Skuld arrive in the real world to find the room empty.)

Ephemer: I wonder if the others got out.

(The world shakes.)

Skuld: What should we do, Ephemer?

Ephemer: Let's take a look outside.

(They exit the room to see the sun set on Daybreak Town as the world falls to pieces around them.)

Ephemer: Skuld, it's too dangerous out here.

Let's go back inside…

Skuld: It took so long to build, but only an instant to destroy…

Ephemer: Come on.

Skuld: Okay……

(They head back in.)

(Continued flashback of the Master's conversation with Darkness.)

Darkness: The things you humans do are beyond comprehension.

Master: We humans?

Darkness: Well, maybe just you.

Master: Do you want to understand me?

Darkness: It is important to know one's enemy.

Master: Are you speaking for everyone there? Or just yourself?

Darkness: Everyone.

Master: Our first game board is a small world. The smaller the world, the easier it is to control.

So let's open up it up little by little, as if we were lining up books of fairy tales one by one. As we add book after book, the realm expands into infinity.

The problem is, although there are places in the world where light cannot reach, there is no place darkness cannot.

It will cost many lives and take many lifetimes, but the world will expand more and more. Yet wherever it unfolds, darkness will follow.

Darkness has the overwhelming advantage. We can try countless times to escape to a world without darkness, but you'll always be there.

Darkness: Because we're friends.

Master: Well, sometimes we need some space.

Darkness: Which world do you intend to disappear in?

Master: A world unseen, and inconceivable. Somewhere neither darkness nor light can take control…

Darkness: Where is that?

Master: What is the one clear difference between humans and other living beings?

Humans want to believe that once they are gone, there's still another world waiting for them.

I want to believe that too. In a world beyond life I can imagine, a fictional world…

Darkness: Fictional? Do you mean a data world?

Master: If whatever is being imagined can be made real, then it belongs to reality.

But as I told you, I'm talking about a world that's inconceivable.

Darkness: Which is?

Master: Somewhere neither eyes nor voice can reach. A world of ※

(Back with Ephemer and Skuld.)

Ephemer: Skuld, get in.

(She nods. The two get in their pods, and Skuld starts to cry.)

Skuld: Thank you, Ephemer…

I'm glad I'm not alone.

Ephemer: No giving up, right, Skuld? Not until the very end.

Skuld: Yeah……

(Ephemer thinks back to when he met Player, and their first adventure together. He cries at the loss of his friend.)

Ephemer: Player……

(The pods close and are buried in rubble.)

(Player and Chirithy are floating in a white space, surrounded by other wielders with their Chirithy. They watch as the others wielders fade away and their Chirithy grabs hold of their hearts, then transform into different Dream Eaters.)

Player: What are those……?

Chirithy: We are connected to the hearts of you Keyblade wielders. When your hearts fade, so do we.

When you fall asleep, we become something that can protect you in the meantime.

Player: Will I sleep too…?

Chirithy: Well, that's up to you.

Player: You mean I could choose not to?

Chirithy: If you refuse sleep, you will join with a brand new heart.

(We see a black-haired woman in a strange town, giving a baby to a cloaked figure. The figure brings the baby to Destiny Islands. The screen flashes, and the baby is now grown as the teenaged Xehanort. The figure watches from afar, then topples over when Xehanort begins to move.

The screen changes again to show Xehanort's arrival in Scala ad Caelum, and his time with Eraqus.

Back to Player and Chirithy. Player closes their eyes, completely calm.)

Chirithy: What is it?

Player: I guess the adventure continues.

Chirithy: Oh?

Goodnight……

(They embrace once more, and Player's heart floats away.)

(Multiple scenes play. First, we see one of the ark's pods floats across an ocean, with the remnants of Daybreak Town scattered across its surface. It makes contact with some rubble and stops, triggering the door to open and revealing its passenger to be Ephemer.

Next, Maleficent's pet raven Diablo brings her cloak to the Mysterious Tower.

Lauriam awakens to find himself in Dwarf Woodlands, while Elrena lies in Enchanted Dominion.

Ven is left in the Barrens and is approached by a mysterious figure.

Elsewhere, Luxu drags the black box across the way with No Name in hand. He glances at the Keyblade.)

Luxu: May your heart be your guiding key……

(He lifts up his hood, revealing a face that looks exactly like Brain's.)

(Brain finds himself in the mysterious city we saw earlier.)

Brain: Where am I……

(He's approached by a stranger, carrying his hat.)

???: You're Brain, right?

Brain: Yes……

???: Here.

(He returns Brain's hat.)

So it was true.

Brain: Who are you?

???: Oh, excuse me. I'm Sigurd.

Wait a moment, I have to report back.

(Sigurd turns and mutters to himself for a moment before addressing Brain again.)

Sigurd: Thank you for waiting. I'll take you to HQ.

Brain: HQ?? Mind explaining that a little more first?

Sigurd: It was set in stone that you would escape the destruction of Daybreak Town and arrive here today. And that we'd be here to meet you.

Brain: What does that mean?? I’m a bit lost here.

Sigurd: We'll explain it all at HQ.

Brain: Wait. Where are the others? I had friends who escaped with me, they should be here too.

Sigurd: You're the only one who arrived in this era.

Brain: …oh… I see……

Sigurd: It's natural to be confused…

We should get going.

(Sigurd leads Brain towards a fountain and gazes up at the statue that tops it. Brain follows and is shocked by what he sees.)

Brain: Is that……

Sigurd: That's the man who built this town, Scala Ad Caelum. The First Keyblade Master,

Master Ephemer.

(A statue of Ephemer wielding the Master's Defender stands at the top of the fountain. Brain looks on in pride.)

Brain: Yeah… I know him.

I'm proud to call him my best friend.

[An Oath to Return
KINGDOM HEARTS]

COMMENTS

+ Reply

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 06:58 amOffline

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Uhhh, discuss amongst yourselves for now.

I'm drained. That was a lot to take in.

Chaser

May 31, 2021 @ 07:00 amOffline

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RIP Union X. Thanks so much for these last handful of bombshells.

Can’t believe [SPOILER]Dream Eaters are our friends all along. And Baby Xehanort[/SPOILER]

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 07:02 amOffline

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Global really didn't get the finale tonight.

I'll try to get these scenes up as quickly as possible.

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 07:04 amOffline

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Sign

Global really didn't get the finale tonight.

I'll try to get these scenes up as quickly as possible.


Thank you Sign and Goldpanner, you guys are best. I can't believe that I was invested in this game since 2013, it's been a journey but an ultimately enjoyable one.

AdrianXXII

May 31, 2021 @ 07:06 amOffline

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Sign

Global really didn't get the finale tonight.

I'll try to get these scenes up as quickly as possible.

What would we do without you and Goldpanner.

Absent

May 31, 2021 @ 07:21 amOffline

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Wow we really covered all the bases. Teenort, adultnort, geezenort and now babynort.

The_Echo

May 31, 2021 @ 07:25 amOffline

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Holy hell that was a lot

After the reveal that Player's heart fused with Xehanort's waiting for the rest of Dark Road is gonna be tough

Also, what the hell did Nomura mean with that Luxu reveal

Zettaflare

May 31, 2021 @ 07:35 amOffline

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Holy cow
[SPOILER=spoilers]So Xehanort wasn't born on Destiny Islands then? Not sure if I like that or not but technically he still did grow up on the Islands so not much of his backstory connected there was altered

Never thought we'd see his mother, lol[/SPOILER]

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 08:09 amOffline

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Zettaflare

Holy cow
[SPOILER=spoilers]So Xehanort wasn't born on Destiny Islands then? Not sure if I like that or not but technically he still did grow up on the Islands so not much of his backstory connected there was altered

Never thought we'd see his mother, lol[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER=spoilers]my impression was that he is Scalian[/SPOILER]

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 08:15 amOffline

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The_Echo

Also, what the hell did Nomura mean with that Luxu reveal

Remember the old speculation that Ava and Skuld are the same person?
Looks like the idea was true, just with different characters... and I don't think the Master of Masters is aware of it.

I need a long walk, and sauna after that. Will be back with more comments once the translations are up.

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 08:27 amOffline

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LoneFox

Remember the old speculation that Ava and Skuld are the same person?
Looks like the idea was true, just with different characters... and I don't think the Master of Masters is aware of it.

I need a long walk, and sauna after that. Will be back with more comments once the translations are up.

It did leave me confused. Luxu is supposed to pass the keyblade on to one leader, Brain in this case. Since Brain travels to the future, how come Luxu is still shown with the blade though? Unless that cutscene was from when the war finished (cutscene of 0.2). That leaves the mystery of how the two had a conversation if it's the same person. :/

The_Echo

May 31, 2021 @ 08:42 amOffline

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kristi-swat

It did leave me confused. Luxu is supposed to pass the keyblade on to one leader, Brain in this case. Since Brain travels to the future, how come Luxu is still shown with the blade though? Unless that cutscene was from when the war finished (cutscene of 0.2). That leaves the mystery of how the two had a conversation if it's the same person. :/

That scene is a continuation of the final scene from Back Cover, so it's before the events of χ[chi].
Which means that's Luxu's original face.

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 08:54 amOffline

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What an emotional ending... the future of Kingdom Hearts looks so promising!

Absent

Wow we really covered all the bases. Teenort, adultnort, geezenort and now babynort.

Terranort is not Adult Xehanort.

the red monster

May 31, 2021 @ 08:55 amOffline

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I have no words. it was truly amazing finale and probably one the best a kingdom hearts game had.
i'm sad we'll likely won't see ephemer again.
also i wonder who was with brain at the end. for some reason i'm thinking demyx, since he's the only one we still don't know anything about.

AdrianXXII

May 31, 2021 @ 08:57 amOffline

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I can't make heads or tail out of this. Hopefully one the subs are up it'll become clearer.

[ISPOILER]right now it almost looks like Xehanort might be Skulds and Ephimirs kid...?[/ISPOILER]

The_Echo

May 31, 2021 @ 09:01 amOffline

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the red monster

also i wonder who was with brain at the end. for some reason i'm thinking demyx, since he's the only one we still don't know anything about.

He introduces himself as シグルド, Sigurd.

Another Norse name to the pile.

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 09:08 amOffline

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Videos are up! Sorry it's all separate.

the red monster

May 31, 2021 @ 09:17 amOffline

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I guess we never gonna see how luxu originally looked like

Chaser

May 31, 2021 @ 09:21 amOffline

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It's so weird to be able to finally, officially say that, aside from Dark Road, we know the pieces of the puzzle for the next mainline Kingdom Hearts games. Union X, Re Mind, and MoM have set up where we are going and it's awesome.

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 09:23 amOffline

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the red monster

I guess we never gonna see how luxu originally looked like

as was pointed out in a reply above, that scene is the aftermath of the KBW at the end of back cover. That is Luxu's original face.

Sorarocks93

May 31, 2021 @ 10:12 amOffline

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The_Echo

That scene is a continuation of the final scene from Back Cover, so it's before the events of χ[chi].
Which means that's Luxu's original face.


kristi-swat

as was pointed out in a reply above, that scene is the aftermath of the KBW at the end of back cover. That is Luxu's original face.

Hmm, but then why does [ISPOILER]Brain look like him?[/ISPOILER]
AdrianXXII

I can't make heads or tail out of this. Hopefully one the subs are up it'll become clearer.

[ISPOILER]right now it almost looks like Xehanort might be Skulds and Ephimirs kid...?[/ISPOILER]

If that's the case, then that means [ISPOILER]that Skuld can't be Subject X? Unless, she traveled further into the future than Ephemer, then Ephemer also did after (doesn't really make sense since Daybreak Town was completely destroyed from what we see, and that probably means the pods were destroyed too) and saved her and went back in time with her. Except you can't travel back in time. Right?[/ISPOILER]

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 10:15 amOffline

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Kingdom Hearts fans in 2014 "We're going to see Xehanort and 'The Reincarnation Theory' in X".

Nomura.

Katsagu

May 31, 2021 @ 10:18 amOffline

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Me trying not to look at what happens in the finale while also seeing the incredible reaction ITT.



This sounds just incredible. If this is as great as many people here say, I really hope a full blown remake happens that can make this justice.

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 10:27 amOffline

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Sorarocks93

Hmm, but then why does [ISPOILER]Brain look like him?[/ISPOILER]

If that's the case, then that means [ISPOILER]that Skuld can't be Subject X? Unless, she traveled further into the future than Ephemer, then Ephemer also did after (doesn't really make sense since Daybreak Town was completely destroyed from what we see, and that probably means the pods were destroyed too) and saved her and went back in time with her. Except you can't travel back in time. Right?[/ISPOILER]

[ISPOILER]That is also what I'm wondering. Judging by their conversation, it doesn't seem that Luxu knows or has any recollection of who Brain his, nor does it strike him as odd that both have the same face.[/ISPOILER]

[ISPOILER]You can travel to the past, that's how robbed Xehanort went to YX on Destiny Islands, but I don't think that's the case here.[/ISPOILER]

Katsagu

May 31, 2021 @ 10:28 amOffline

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Chaser

It's so weird to be able to finally, officially say that, aside from Dark Road, we know the pieces of the puzzle for the next mainline Kingdom Hearts games. Union X, Re Mind, and MoM have set up where we are going and it's awesome.


On a sidenote, it's clear KH has a series learned nothing about splitting story through multiple games.

If anything it's kinda worse now. Since the setup is done on a DLC, Rhythm game and mobile game that will stop being a game.

And I'm here for it all.

zekro94

May 31, 2021 @ 10:28 amOffline

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This confirms Skuld is subject X, she is tired from the fight so it makes sense that she only says a few words

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 10:42 amOffline

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Sorarocks93

Hmm, but then why does [ISPOILER]Brain look like him?[/ISPOILER]

Yeah, that's the part that I'm just as confused about. What's even more confusing is the fact that Ava knew both of them.

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 10:50 amOffline

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Once again reminding everyone that spoiler tags are not necessary in UXDR threads.

Sorarocks93

May 31, 2021 @ 10:51 amOffline

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kristi-swat

[ISPOILER]That is also what I'm wondering. Judging by their conversation, it doesn't seem that Luxu knows or has any recollection of who Brain his, nor does it strike him as odd that both have the same face.[/ISPOILER]

[ISPOILER]You can travel to the past, that's how robbed Xehanort went to YX on Destiny Islands, but I don't think that's the case here.[/ISPOILER]

[ispoiler]Ah sorry, I meant to say you can't travel to the past as you were, because if Ephemer went to the future to get Skuld back, he would have to lose his body, and I don't see how he'd build Scala like that, not to mention Skuld would also have to do that.

Anyway, this is all under the assumption that Skuld is Xehanort's mother because that woman looked like her (it's probably Nomura trying to throw us off)

At the same time, Subject X could be someone totally different. I'm not getting my hopes up for the translation to clear things up tbh. And if it doesn't, we'll just have to wait a few years I guess.[/ispoiler]

AdrianXXII

May 31, 2021 @ 10:52 amOffline

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Sign

Once again reminding everyone that spoiler tags are not necessary in UXDR threads.

Well with the subbed version not being up yet, i felt like it be better to spoiler tag stuff until a version more people would watch is up.

Chaser

May 31, 2021 @ 10:53 amOffline

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AdrianXXII

Well with the subbed version not being up yet, i felt like it be better to spoiler tag stuff until a version more people would watch is up.

This is my reasoning why I was tagging

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 11:04 amOffline

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Does anyone here know enough Japanese to translate what Luxu says just before the face reveal? When I went out, the first idea that came to my mind was, it has to be "I tried to warn them, but it all happened just the way I remembered it". Is it anything like that?

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GO_is_GOD.MoM_is_dust

May 31, 2021 @ 11:12 amOffline

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I knew it main villains of 2nd phase is MoM & the Foretellers(= in the strongest 7 darkness) !!

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 11:18 amOffline

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LoneFox

Does anyone here know enough Japanese to translate what Luxu says just before the face reveal? When I went out, the first idea that came to my mind was, it has to be "I tried to warn them, but it all happened just the way I remembered it". Is it anything like that?

Are you sure you're not talking about another line? Because he just says "May your heart be your guiding key" before lifting the hood.

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Idreamaboutcats

May 31, 2021 @ 11:19 amOffline

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That was a relatively okay finale. My only complaints from beginning to end are:
[LIST]
[*]We did not see the titular weapon at all.
[*]We didn’t see Nightmare Chirithy again.
[*]The “war” was incredibly underwhelming in flash.
[*]We saw Daybreak Town end. We didn’t see the other worlds end. For a world-splitting war that destroyed and fractured existence it’s very blah.
[*]Do we even finally get a name drop on who the traitor is? We already know who it is, but I kind of expected an explicit mention.
[*](more to come)
[/LIST]

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 11:23 amOffline

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Sign

Are you sure you're not talking about another line? Because he just says "May your heart be your guiding key" before lifting the hood.

Thank you! It's a missed opportunity then...
For those of you who didn't recognize that quote, it is from an equally shocking face reveal scene in Babylon 5 episode Babylon Squared.

KeybladeLordSora

May 31, 2021 @ 11:24 amOffline

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Idreamaboutcats

Do we even finally get a name drop on who the traitor is? We already know who it is, but I kind of expected an explicit mention.

There was never a traitor. That's the whole point. It was an MoM ruse cruise that he decided to write down for shits and giggles simply because he saw the whole fiasco.

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 11:27 amOffline

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LoneFox

Thank you! It's a missed opportunity then...
For those of you who didn't recognize that quote, it is from an equally shocking face reveal scene in Babylon 5 episode Babylon Squared.

That's me. I didn't recognize the quote xD

KeybladeLordSora

May 31, 2021 @ 12:15 pmOffline

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Brain: *wakes up without his hat*

Random hooded person: ey yo dude you dropped your hat

PikaPal

May 31, 2021 @ 12:20 pmOffline

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Can't believe Union X is all over now. It's been a long journey and it only just feels like yesterday since I was at school years ago and the first version of the game was gearing up for it's release in Japan but alas another chapter in the Kingdom Hearts book can be closed... and another one will soon begin.

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Idreamaboutcats

May 31, 2021 @ 12:33 pmOffline

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I’d also like to say, Thank God this wallet trap is finally over! Yes it didn’t take any money since February but it sure took a lot during its entire lifetime.

Let the news drought finally begin. Except September.

Sephiroth0812

May 31, 2021 @ 01:02 pmOffline

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So, the Player character is a traitor siding with the Darknesses or do we have another case of possession/hijacking at hand?

It's always somewhat itchy when there's so much talking and you don't understand a word, lol.

Also, the running gag of Ven simply sleeping through everything keeps running and running. At this rate he won't even need that much amnesia anymore but I bet he'll have it anyways because that fight between him and that one "Darkness" likely either damaged or at least affected his heart.

Sorarocks93

May 31, 2021 @ 01:04 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

So, the Player character is a traitor siding with the Darknesses or do we have another case of possession/hijacking at hand?

It's always somewhat itchy when there's so much talking and you don't understand a word, lol.

Also, the running gag of Ven simply sleeping through everything keeps running and running. At this rate he won't even need that much amnesia anymore but I bet he'll have it anyways because that fight between him and that one "Darkness" likely either damaged or at least affected his heart.

You can see Ephemer talking to him just before that and it's parentheses. So I think it's an act.

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 01:04 pmOffline

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I'm wondering why was the real daybreak town glitching when Ephemer and Skuld returned? Has it happened before? I only remember glitches in the data world.

kirabook

May 31, 2021 @ 01:04 pmOffline

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From what I gathered, Player pretended to join the darknesses so that Ephemer would forcefully send them and the player away. It was imperative that Ephermer and Skuld truly felt like they had to send Player away. Player teleported to a place that I guess made it easy to seal up themselves and the darknesses inside so they'd all die as the world ended. Player laughed at the darkneses because their plan succeeded

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 01:05 pmOffline

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Sorarocks93

You can see Ephemer talking to him just before that and it's parentheses. So I think it's an act.

the player got possessed by darkness.

Alexxio M.

May 31, 2021 @ 01:08 pmOffline

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Question what quest number is the ending I need to know how close I am to getting there

Sorarocks93

May 31, 2021 @ 01:11 pmOffline

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Alexxio M.

Question what quest number is the ending I need to know how close I am to getting there

979 iirc

Inb4 that number actually means something in the future of the series...

Sephiroth0812

May 31, 2021 @ 01:15 pmOffline

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Sorarocks93

You can see Ephemer talking to him just before that and it's parentheses. So I think it's an act.

Didn't even notice the parentheses among all the japanese symbols, lol. Good eye.

kirabook

From what I gathered, Player pretended to join the darknesses so that Ephemer would forcefully send them and the player away. It was imperative that Ephermer and Skuld truly felt like they had to send Player away. Player teleported to a place that I guess made it easy to seal up themselves and the darknesses inside so they'd all die as the world ended. Player laughed at the darkneses because their plan succeeded

That sounds like something more like Player would do when recalling the original X[chi].

Didn't they state in the last update though that "the world ending" results in sleep instead of actual perma-death?

I guess though one should refrain from making too many assumptions just from visuals.

kristi-swat

the player got possessed by darkness.

That's a possibility too, mainly because one Darkness is missing.

According to earlier statements there are seven Darknesses and here we see only four.
One is sealed within Ven right now if I recall correctly while another went to the outside world with Maleficent and later spoke/fought with Luxu which means five of them must remain.
If one is within Player it would explain why only four are around visibly.

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 01:19 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Didn't even notice the parentheses among all the japanese symbols, lol. Good eye.


That sounds like something more like Player would do when recalling the original X[chi].

Didn't they state in the last update though that "the world ending" results in sleep instead of actual perma-death?

I guess though one should refrain from making too many assumptions just from visuals.


That's a possibility too, mainly because one Darkness is missing.

According to earlier statements there are seven Darknesses and here we see only four.
One is sealed within Ven right now if I recall correctly while another went to the outside world with Maleficent and later spoke/fought with Luxu which means five of them must remain.
If one is within Player it would explain why only four are around visibly.

there are 13 darknesses, 7 are locked inside MoM and the 6 foretellers (from what I gathered in the cutscene)

Cumguardian69

May 31, 2021 @ 01:25 pmOffline

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Finally. The mobileshit gacha beast was felled. This is a momentous day for Kingdom Hearts.

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 01:42 pmOffline

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Wow just wow, clearly my problem was I didn't go crazy enough and THAT is saying something.

So if I'm seeing this all right...
[LIST]
[*][SPOILER="Wut"]Xehanort is the reincarnation of player and he got abandoned on Destiny Island when his old care taker who brought him there died.
[*]The Dandelions went on to become the first proper dream eaters by merging with their chirithy.
[*]Lauriam woke up in a flower glade in Dwarf Woodlands while poor Elrena wakes up on a raining mountain in the middle of a friggen lightning storm. There is an implication here then that someone must be in this world who know them right? Perhaps Strelitzia?
[*]Luxu body snatched Brain ejecting his heart.
[*]Brain's heart time traveled and reconstituted in scala.
[*]Ephemer remained behind and did a good job at rebuilding the world.
[*]Skuld either ended up in Scala and become Xehanort's mother or Skuld is subject X?
[*]The MoM is a gigantic douche who set himself and his apprentices up to slaughter so he could get rid of darkness this way, which recontextualizes him naming them after the seven deadly sins.
[*]The Darknesses are the original 13 darknesses that split from the X-blade (?) or at the very least their existence might explain why the dark part of the X-blade broke into 13.[/SPOILER]
[/LIST]

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 01:45 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

According to earlier statements there are seven Darknesses and here we see only four.
One is sealed within Ven right now if I recall correctly while another went to the outside world with Maleficent and later spoke/fought with Luxu which means five of them must remain.
If one is within Player it would explain why only four are around visibly.

In the previous update Luxu said that there are six Darknesses total. There was some speculation about who/where the seventh one might be, because obviously six doesn't make sense.

kirabook

May 31, 2021 @ 01:48 pmOffline

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Given we didn't see the actual war over the x-blade, does this confirm there was a war BEFORE this one and that was the real Keyblade War fight? Meaning, there has been more than one Keyblade War, meaning, they've introduced yet another prequel to the series?

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 01:51 pmOffline

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kirabook

Given we didn't see the actual war over the x-blade, does this confirm there was a war BEFORE this one and that was the real Keyblade War fight? Meaning, there has been more than one Keyblade War, meaning, they've introduced yet another prequel to the series?

That was confirmed awhile ago, there was another keyblade war before the one in X that the MoM fought in when he was a boy against the forces of Darkness. Then as confirmed just a bit ago darkness managed to get the upper hand by casting away their forms giving us the formless darkness we see.

kirabook

May 31, 2021 @ 01:53 pmOffline

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Right, though I did think maybeeee we'd get some mention of the x-blade. Or a glimpse of it. Or something relevant during the finale to tie it all together. But for sure now, the actual war over the x-blade was before this game.

So we can count there's been 4 keyblade wars that we're aware of so far, but it doesn't seem like this one had anything to do with the x-blade unlike the other three. I mean technically it does because MoM was involved, but the people fighting the war didn't know jack.

Sephiroth0812

May 31, 2021 @ 01:54 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

there are 13 darknesses, 7 are locked inside MoM and the 6 foretellers (from what I gathered in the cutscene)

Ah, roger that. Most likely indeed the 13 dark pieces of the original X-blade.

LoneFox

In the previous update Luxu said that there are six Darknesses total. There was some speculation about who/where the seventh one might be, because obviously six doesn't make sense.

That would fit with the notion of there being 13 overall, just as way more earlier theorized by several of us in the community. Six still roaming around while the other seven are already "sealed" within the MoM himself + Luxu and the five Furrytellers.
It appears Player trapped four more of them and one is sealed within Ventus makes only one unaccounted for.

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Keybladeguy989

May 31, 2021 @ 02:15 pmOffline

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Sign

[parsehtml]

Kingdom Hearts Union X's finale was released today!


Watch the scenes below! Translations will be available as soon as possible. 
















[/parsehtml]

Sign

Uhhh, discuss amongst yourselves for now.

I'm drained. That was a lot to take in.

At what point does luxu eyes turn yellow, when he takes over brain, brains eyes remained the same color. wonder how it changes

Xblade13

May 31, 2021 @ 02:27 pmOffline

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Keybladeguy989

At what point does luxu eyes turn yellow, when he takes over brain, brains eyes remained the same color. wonder how it changes

I would assume the only reason Luxu's eyes are yellow is because he is still inhabiting Braig/Xigbar's body, and said body had yellow eyes following his Xehanort-ification/exposure to darkness. If he ever possesses someone else after KH3, he'll probs have whatever their eye color is.

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 02:32 pmOffline

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Keybladeguy989

At what point does luxu eyes turn yellow, when he takes over brain, brains eyes remained the same color. wonder how it changes

When he becomes half Xehanort as revealed in DDD and hinted in BBS. His eyes weren't yellow during early BBS but after he lost he interacted with Xehanort off screen and showed up with yellow eyes giving us a close up. Then as DDD revealed the yellow eyes indicated that Xehanort had put a piece of his heart inside of him

Alexxio M.

May 31, 2021 @ 02:34 pmOffline

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Sorarocks93

979 iirc

Inb4 that number actually means something in the future of the series...

Thanks I’m up to 870 so if I keep skipping levels and using union cross and raid battle to get high lux pulls I think I should be fine

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 02:41 pmOffline

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Hirokey123

[*]Luxu body snatched Brain ejecting his heart.


Keybladeguy989

At what point does luxu eyes turn yellow, when he takes over brain, brains eyes remained the same color. wonder how it changes

Luxu did not take over Brain. As others have pointed out, the face reveal scene is from just after the War, the time when Brain and the others were starting as the new leaders. The only way this makes sense is if Luxu is time-traveling Brain from the future. He ended up in Scala at some time in the future (not very far forward, maybe a few decades or so), started a family there to become Eraqus's ancestor, then went back to the time before the War and became one of MoM's disciples.

So, two of my top four favorite characters are in fact one and same. And the information to find this out was available, in fact I see now that at one point I was one connection away from understanding it. Mind blown... ?

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 03:03 pmOffline

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LoneFox

Luxu did not take over Brain. As others have pointed out, the face reveal scene is from just after the War, the time when Brain and the others were starting as the new leaders. The only way this makes sense is if Luxu is time-traveling Brain from the future. He ended up in Scala at some time in the future (not very far forward, maybe a few decades or so), started a family there to become Eraqus's ancestor, then went back to the time before the War and became one of MoM's disciples.

So, two of my top four favorite characters are in fact one and same. And the information to find this out was available, in fact I see now that at one point I was one connection away from understanding it. Mind blown... ?

I mean ignoring we actually have no context for when the BC scene occurs. You say it was right after the war but that's clearly already not true just by you know it being bright and sunny and not in a torrential darkness storm in KG. Furthermore it was revealed Luxu was to watch the end of the world then jump ship to the dandelions and watch what happens there. AFTER the stuff happens with the Dandelions then Luxu is supposed to move onto his slow journey to the future. In other words the BC scene with Luxu and the box at the KG happens AFTER UX.

Luxu watches X, he hops over with the Dandelions at the end of the war just like we did, he watches the Dandelion stuff of UX and steals Brain's body, and then he returns to the world ready to begin his long journey.

KeybladeLordSora

May 31, 2021 @ 03:14 pmOffline

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Hirokey123

I mean ignoring we actually have no context for when the BC scene occurs. You say it was right after the war but that's clearly already not true just by you know it being bright and sunny and not in a torrential darkness storm in KG. Furthermore it was revealed Luxu was to watch the end of the world then jump ship to the dandelions and watch what happens there. AFTER the stuff happens with the Dandelions then Luxu is supposed to move onto his slow journey to the future. In other words the BC scene with Luxu and the box at the KG happens AFTER UX.

Luxu watches X, he hops over with the Dandelions at the end of the war just like we did, he watches the Dandelion stuff of UX and steals Brain's body, and then he returns to the world ready to begin his long journey.

I mean, it could also be before the war. :T

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 03:17 pmOffline

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Hirokey123

In other words the BC scene with Luxu and the box at the KG happens AFTER UX.

Luxu's secret report clearly tells that he gave No Name to one of the five, but at the face reveal scene he still has it.

Luminary

May 31, 2021 @ 03:17 pmOffline

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Brain’s body in the Scala scene is not his original body as you can’t take your body with you when you time travel. So it’s entirely possible that Luxu took his body, as shown in his face reveal, but Brain’s heart still traveled to the future and was then reconstituted in Scala.

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 03:18 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

I mean, it could also be before the war. :T

I don't think so because of the way these scenes have been structured in the past. This is clearly meant to harken back to the BC scene to the point we are supposed to think it's the same. Meanwhile BC set up this scene in a way that heavily implied it occurred after the war we just didn't know how far after.

Sephiroth0812

May 31, 2021 @ 03:22 pmOffline

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In addition to what Zip said: Who knows, maybe Luxu did the same thing Ansem SoD did with Riku in KH 1 and yeeted Brain's heart out of the body so he could use it unhindered. We know by now it being possible that a new "container" can be created/summoned for a heart so when Brain "appears" in the city with the Ephemer statue it may be not his original body his heart is using to interact with the physical world.

I think many of us keep forgetting that a physical body is much less of a limitation in the KH universe than it is in our own.

The scene where Luxu removes his hood I suspect to be taking place after the war shown in the original X[chi], but before the events of Union X and everything happening in the Dandelion "cage" world. He still has the box there while it is nowhere to be seen when he confronts that Darkness entity or later Brain.

GrovyleTheThief

May 31, 2021 @ 03:24 pmOffline

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So... [ISPOILER]I did wonder why the pets in Chi looked different from the other spirits from DDD, like with the eyes and such. I guess this explains it. Are they really the actual spirits of the Chi keyblade wielders? [/ISPOILER]

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 03:28 pmOffline

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This woman has to be Skuld... she has the same hairstyle as her. Before Kingdom Hearts III, we assumed Xehanort inherently had amber eyes but that wasn't the case so it would be a pattern if the same revelation happens with Skuld.

Sephiroth0812

May 31, 2021 @ 03:29 pmOffline

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GrovyleTheThief

So... [ISPOILER]I did wonder why the pets in Chi looked different from the other spirits from DDD, like with the eyes and such. I guess this explains it. Are they really the actual spirits of the Chi keyblade wielders? [/ISPOILER]


Considering how it was displayed it looks like they are hybrid-beings of the Chi- Keykids and their Chirithys.
The Chirithys "swallow" the hearts of the Keykids and then transform into the Spirit Dream Eaters so it stands to reason they're a fusion of both.

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 03:35 pmOffline

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LoneFox

Luxu's secret report clearly tells that he gave No Name to one of the five, but at the face reveal scene he still has it.

The reports also make it sound like he gave up the blade before taking a body to one of the five and yet that clearly never happens. The majority of the five are flung through time and never meet Luxu the only two left he can give it to are Ephemer and Brain. We never see him meet and give the blade to Ephemer but we do get him meeting Brain, and we hear him pretty ominously say that Brain's life will end in that meeting. What else could that possibly mean but that Luxu was going to take his body and how on earth could Brain have ended up in the far future if Brain's heart never was separated from his body.

So the report I think is written to be intentionally misleading. It's written after he's taken Brain's body and given the keyblade off screen to Ephemer, explaining how it ends up in scala, and then what most of it is his recapping what just happened and then just reaffirming/confirming to us he is going to be stealing bodies.

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 03:36 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Considering how it was displayed it looks like they are hybrid-beings of the Chi- Keykids and their Chirithys.
The Chirithys "swallow" the hearts of the Keykids and then transform into the Spirit Dream Eaters so it stands to reason they're a fusion of both.

Anyone else realize X foreshadowed this?

The nightmare chirithy was just a chirithy style dream eater but then it ate wielders who had turned into Darklings and Nightmare Chirithy transformed into a more traditional looking nightmare dream eater.

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Idreamaboutcats

May 31, 2021 @ 03:37 pmOffline

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I don’t know if that’s Skuld, but the eyes look different. Speaking of the mother, I find it ironic yet funny how Xehanort is suddenly motherless (because what sane and healthy mother would willingly give up their child unless there are dangerous or mortal circumstances). It’s a classic Disney protagonist formula, except he’s a villain.

kingofgame981

May 31, 2021 @ 03:38 pmOffline

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For some god knows unknown reasons inside my mind, I was believe baby Xehanort was inside that black box and we finally know what is inside the box.

Sorarocks93

May 31, 2021 @ 03:42 pmOffline

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Hirokey123

So the report I think is written to be intentionally misleading. It's written after he's taken Brain's body and given the keyblade off screen to Ephemer, explaining how it ends up in scala, and then what most of it is his recapping what just happened and then just reaffirming/confirming to us he is going to be stealing bodies.

Good ol' KH. Answering questions with even more questions.

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 03:49 pmOffline

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Idreamaboutcats

I don’t know if that’s Skuld, but the eyes look different. Speaking of the mother, I find it ironic yet funny how Xehanort is suddenly motherless (because what sane and healthy mother would willingly give up their child unless there are dangerous or mortal circumstances). It’s a classic Disney protagonist formula, except he’s a villain.

I think given they show where everyone ended up EXCEPT Skuld that Skuld is definitely still Subject X. My guess is that Skuld is probably part of Scala's history, Ephemer would definitely have left record of his friends, and that the people of Scala largely modeled themselves on their founders. So this is probably just a woman who styles her hair like Skuld.

But it raises a lot of questions... Maybe Scala went through a crisis explaining why it has a HUGE graveyard and next to like no people living in it? Perhaps Xehanort was sent away to keep him safe from this crisis, it would further deepen the Xehanort/Kairi parallels DR had been making.

ShardofTruth

May 31, 2021 @ 03:49 pmOffline

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What a heart wrenching finale, I hope the story gets the game it deserves someday, third time's the charm.

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 04:01 pmOffline

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Hirokey123

[*]Luxu body snatched Brain ejecting his heart.
[*]Brain's heart time traveled and reconstituted in scala.

I remember back when we were trying to conclude whether Brain was a pre-existing character and you proposed the idea that he was connected to Xigbar. Props to you for thinking of a theory like that way before the reveal that Luxu was Xigbar.

Assuming Brain and Eraqus are related by blood, it would mean that Eraqus lineage is not from the original Brain but a reconstructed version of him which is so trippy to think about.

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ZeVaine

May 31, 2021 @ 04:02 pmOffline

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I'm liking the Luxu and Brain swap places theory - too.

Otherwise, what is the purpose of taking Brain's body at the time he did.

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 04:08 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax

I remember back when we were trying to conclude whether Brain was a pre-existing character and you proposed the idea that he was connected to Xigbar. Props to you for thinking of a theory like that way before the reveal that Luxu was Xigbar.

Assuming Brain and Eraqus are related by blood, it would mean that Eraqus lineage is not from the original Brain but a reconstructed version of him which is so trippy to think about.

Thanks I make a lot of theories because I figure if I keep throwing out crazy stuff then EVENTUALLY one them will be right lol.... but dang go figure that this time I was playing too safe with most of my theories. But it's fine now I just know whenever I make a crazy theory no one can actually call me crazy because I will NEVER make something that one up's "The player is Xehanort but reincarnated and Eraqus is descended from a time traveler".

I do think having Brain show up in Scala is meant to be our final key to explain how Eraqus was descended from one of the Dandelion leaders if they existed such a long time ago, with DR making it clear it wasn't a distant descendent of Eraqus but his grandfather he had gotten to hear from. I like how things came full circle.... Master's Defender was suppose to go to Ephemer but Ava gave it to Brain. Then Brain gave it to Ephemer and eventually it makes its way back to Brain's descendant Eraqus.

FudgemintGuardian

May 31, 2021 @ 04:11 pmOffline

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Lord Sora

May 31, 2021 @ 04:21 pmOffline

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I am legit wondering whether the creators of the game were too lazy to add in the keyblades or if there’s more to it. At this point I would assume the former. But hey, you never know.

Zettaflare

May 31, 2021 @ 04:26 pmOffline

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I gotta say I really love the look of the Scala ad Caelum that Brain arrived in. It looks like Paris or Victorian England. Too bad we probably won't get to play in that version outside of flashbacks

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 04:38 pmOffline

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Zettaflare

I gotta say I really love the look of the Scala ad Caelum that Brain arrived in. It looks like Paris or Victorian England. Too bad we probably won't get to play in that version outside of flashbacks

You never know, that may be the Scala Ad Caelum that Mickey ends up visiting.

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AR829038

May 31, 2021 @ 04:48 pmOffline

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Okay, so I haven't seen any of the videos yet, I know nothing of what's in them, but I just wanted to come on and post this real quick:
I am infuriated that Global didn't get this update same-day. I know it's not that big of a deal, because we'll probably get it by tomorrow, but it's just really shitty that after dealing with YEARS of Japan being months ahead of us for absolutely no good reason, and after all the trouble that Global went through to catch up to the JP story leading up to the finale over these last several months, it really grinds my gears that on the very last update, on the conclusion of this five-year-running game, we're having to deal with this bs one last time. It honestly feels like a huge middle finger. There's no excuse I can think of for why they would pull this now of all times.

oiCabie

May 31, 2021 @ 04:50 pmOffline

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Guys wait. Why are you all so obsessed with the idea that Eraqus descend from Brain if the character holding the Master Defender is actually Ephemer? I mean.... Brain wields the noname.
I don't even think that Eraqus strikes ressemblance from Brain tbh... they just have the same color of hair and eyes (and so does many characters of the series. They bear some similarities to each other [like Aqua and Skuld, Kairi and Ava and so on....] and they are not blood related last time I checked)
If the criteria we are using for this heirloom is the keyblade, I guess we are missing out something, aren't we?

(I mean, I guess we can rule out that Brain is blood-related to Eraqus. I'm not saying that Ephemer is indeed a relative to Eraqus tho; maybe Ephemer was just a master that passes the keyblade to him (like how Eraqus himself passes down the keyblade to Aqua, and Brain does the same to Ephemer))

SweetYetSalty

May 31, 2021 @ 04:52 pmOffline

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So...am I the only one who is disturbed that some random hooded person just dropped dead on Destiny Islands? Seriously that's Sora, Riku, and Kairi's future playground. They are playing on some guy's graveyard. Like say what?! I'll never look at the islands the same way again. Whenever I see Sora beat up Selphie, collect coconuts, and run around the beach I'll always now think of that hooded dude who just died there in creepy fashion. Kingdom Hearts just became a horror story! Who even was that guy?

Also how dare the player hit Skuld! Yeah those were the two main things I took from the update.

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 04:57 pmOffline

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Lord Sora

I am legit wondering whether the creators of the game were too lazy to add in the keyblades or if there’s more to it. At this point I would assume the former. But hey, you never know.

It's not the same area.

oiCabie

May 31, 2021 @ 04:58 pmOffline

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SweetYetSalty

So...am I the only one who is disturbed that some random hooded person just dropped dead on Destiny Islands? Seriously that's Sora, Riku, and Kairi's future playground. They are playing on some guy's graveyard. Like say what?! I'll never look at the islands the same way again. Whenever I see Sora beat up Selphie, collect coconuts, and run around the beach I'll always now think of that hooded dude who just died there in creepy fashion. Kingdom Hearts just became a horror story! Who even was that guy?

Also how dare the player hit Skuld! Yeah those were the two main things I took from the update.

for the looks of it, the robe is akin to the robed figure xehanort / Ansem SoD heart, maybe foreshadowing that this is in fact a heart and not a person? A time traveler? Maybe Ephemer's?

SweetYetSalty

May 31, 2021 @ 05:03 pmOffline

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oiCabie

for the looks of it, the robe is akin to the robed figure xehanort / Ansem SoD heart, maybe foreshadowing that this is in fact a heart and not a person? A time traveler? Maybe Ephemer's?

Maybe, but the hood looked different, and we saw his hands. Until we get some info on this guy, I'm assuming he's just some random hobo who died on the beach. He died just outside Sora and Kairi's cave too. Ewww!

AdrianXXII

May 31, 2021 @ 05:12 pmOffline

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oiCabie

for the looks of it, the robe is akin to the robed figure xehanort / Ansem SoD heart, maybe foreshadowing that this is in fact a heart and not a person? A time traveler? Maybe Ephemer's?

Honestly it looks more like one of those cases where they're trying to keep the face hidden, after all if it were like Anseom SoD we wouldn't have seen their hands like we do. Now the question becomes is it a face we'd know or did they just not want to design the character yet.

oiCabie

May 31, 2021 @ 05:15 pmOffline

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AdrianXXII

Honestly it looks more like one of those cases where they're trying to keep the face hidden, after all if it were like Anseom SoD we wouldn't have seen their hands like we do. Now the question becomes is it a face we'd know or did they just not want to design the character yet.

I'm honestly more inclined to believe that it is a recurring character (or so I hope...); cuz we've already been introduced to so many new characters that's sorta overwhelming.

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 05:18 pmOffline

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oiCabie

Guys wait. Why are you all so obsessed with the idea that Eraqus descend from Brain if the character holding the Master Defender is actually Ephemer? I mean.... Brain wields the noname.
I don't even think that Eraqus strikes ressemblance from Brain tbh... they just have the same color of hair and eyes (and so does many characters of the series. They bear some similarities to each other [like Aqua and Skuld, Kairi and Ava and so on....] and they are not blood related last time I checked)
If the criteria we are using for this heirloom is the keyblade, I guess we are missing out something, aren't we?

(I mean, I guess we can rule out that Brain is blood-related to Eraqus. I'm not saying that Ephemer is indeed a relative to Eraqus tho; maybe Ephemer was just a master that passes the keyblade to him (like how Eraqus himself passes down the keyblade to Aqua, and Brain does the same to Ephemer))

Brain bequeathed his copy of The Book of Prophecies and the Master's Defender to Ephemer in Part 1 of the finale.

KeybladeLordSora

May 31, 2021 @ 05:27 pmOffline

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Someone on friggin Gamefaqs keeps saying Player is Ansem SoD.

Like we can imply that Player's heart merged with or reincarnated into Xehanort but there's no proof that he becomes Ansem.

Also can someone link to me that Nomura interview where he supposedly said there would be no announcements til '22? I only remember him saying no new releases til then and HOPING he can bring good news.

NoWay

May 31, 2021 @ 05:29 pmOffline

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When can we expect the translations? I’m dying of curiosity :(

The_Echo

May 31, 2021 @ 05:31 pmOffline

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I guess we finally have a reason for Xehanort's "Another X" anagram huh

KeybladeLordSora

Brain: *wakes up without his hat*

Random hooded person: ey yo dude you dropped your hat

I saw someone suggest his hat was used to continue his memory and reconstitute his body.
They showed Diablo bringing Maleficent's cloak to the fairies for a similar purpose.

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ZeVaine

May 31, 2021 @ 05:36 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Someone on friggin Gamefaqs keeps saying Player is Ansem SoD.

Like we can imply that Player's heart merged with or reincarnated into Xehanort but there's no proof that he becomes Ansem.

Also can someone link to me that Nomura interview where he supposedly said there would be no announcements til '22? I only remember him saying no new releases til then and HOPING he can bring good news.

I mean... I guess kinda... Xehanort at the very least has the memories of player (and it's implied he reincarnate as him), and Xehanort's heart does become SoD...

Xehanort ends up becoming the scapegoat for Sora to defeat the 13 darknesses, and genuinely believes that he has the power to change the world the way he sees fit (likely encouraged by the MoM) - so his evil actions in his various forms help play into this tragic tale of Xehanort, who was a hero become corrupted and sacrificed, in a way, for light to win.

maryadavies

May 31, 2021 @ 05:45 pmOffline

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NoWay: Patience, grasshopper. Translation takes time, tho I'm as anxious as you to find out what the frick is going on.

NoWay

May 31, 2021 @ 05:49 pmOffline

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maryadavies

NoWay: Patience, grasshopper. Translation takes time, tho I'm as anxious as you to find out what the frick is going on.

Thank you for your answer. I was just hoping to get a rough time frame so I don‘t need to refresh this page every second (which is what I’m doing right now. :D)

Guess I need to try to distract myself for the next couple of hours

Willow A113

May 31, 2021 @ 05:50 pmOffline

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NoWay

Thank you for your answer. I was just hoping to get a rough time frame so I don‘t need to refresh this page every second (which is what I’m doing right now. :D)

I'm currently doing the same thing

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 05:52 pmOffline

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The_Echo

I saw someone suggest his hat was used to continue his memory and reconstitute his body.
They showed Diablo bringing Maleficent's cloak to the fairies for a similar purpose.

Yeah, that's the symbolism that I inferred from that scene, too.

Ephemer is a character that screams playable for Kingdom Hearts, I'm confident we will have a game where we get to play as him.

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darknessofheart

May 31, 2021 @ 05:55 pmOffline

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It's weird that it seems like they wanted Xehanort away from Scala; almost like they knew something dark was in his future. I mean, Luxu mentioned there was a prophecy concerning a Keyblade master devoted to the darkness who would bring about another Keyblade War. I wonder if that prophecy was also known throughout Scala and Xehanort was feared to be that master, so in a futile attempt to prevent the prophecy, they sent Xehanort away to ensure he had no knowledge of Keyblades, other worlds, light, and darkness, ect. Then his heartless comes along and ensures it does happen.

If that's the case, it's creepy to think that Xehanort was feared even as an infant by his own family.

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Chris13

May 31, 2021 @ 06:02 pmOffline

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Sign

[parsehtml]

Kingdom Hearts Union X's finale was released today!


Watch the scenes below! Translations will be available as soon as possible. 
















[/parsehtml]

Sign

[parsehtml]

Kingdom Hearts Union X's finale was released today!


Watch the scenes below! Translations will be available as soon as possible. 
















[/parsehtml]

Player is sora know it makes sense

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 06:06 pmOffline

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darknessofheart

It's weird that it seems like they wanted Xehanort away from Scala; almost like they knew something dark was in his future. I mean, Luxu mentioned there was a prophecy concerning a Keyblade master devoted to the darkness who would bring about another Keyblade War. I wonder if that prophecy was also known throughout Scala and Xehanort was feared to be that master, so in a futile attempt to prevent the prophecy, they sent Xehanort away to ensure he had no knowledge of Keyblades, other worlds, light, and darkness, ect. Then his heartless comes along and ensures it does happen.

If that's the case, it's creepy to think that Xehanort was feared even as an infant by his own family.

It is a tale about as old as mankind itself, I believe Oedipus is the most well known version of it. The standard continuation of it (adapted to the circumstances) would be that Xehanort and Eraqus are blood relatives (perhaps even brothers), and this fact plays some part in Xehanort's fall into darkness. But since this is Kingdom Hearts, it doesn't necessarily need to follow the standard...

In any case, it shouldn't have any meaning outside the context of Dark Road, because Xehanort is dead for good in the main storyline.

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doublewizard

May 31, 2021 @ 06:09 pmOffline

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I personally don't believe the theory that Luxu is possessing Brain. Re-reading Luxu's secret report entries in KH3, he mentions bequeathing his keyblade to one of the leaders and no longer having it, which doesn't really match up with the face reveal scene we saw in this update. I feel like there's simply just more time shenanigans going on, par for the course for recent KH content, especially Union X lol.

Edit: another thing I just realized is that it makes sense for Brain to have the No Name keyblade with him when he appears in what appears to be early Scala, we know that keyblade has to get there eventually for both Xehanort's master and Xehanort himself to get it.

Sorarocks93

May 31, 2021 @ 06:12 pmOffline

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If the player is indeed Xehanort reincarnated, then watching the KH3 ending hits a bit different. When Xehanort's and Eraqus' hearts float upwards, that's not just Xehanort's heart anymore.

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 06:14 pmOffline

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I'm pretty sure that Ephemer has read a lot of the BoP and that's how Brain's arrival was prepared.

Cumguardian69

May 31, 2021 @ 06:31 pmOffline

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Sorarocks93

If the player is indeed Xehanort reincarnated, then watching the KH3 ending hits a bit different. When Xehanort's and Eraqus' hearts float upwards, that's not just Xehanort's heart anymore.

It's *our* heart. Play le soviet theme

G-SANtos

May 31, 2021 @ 06:44 pmOffline

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Here is Cherrim's translation.
[URL unfurl="true"]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15GHy4uzo8JKdoKt8JrUR-Y9ewP3wtgJ6EVg7UsvE9VA/edit#gid=891763736[/URL]

I'm surprised the arcs can be returned to the data world. I legit thought the trio would escape with a single pod using the heart hotel method.
But that brings the question, why does the pod sometimes remain and other times disappear from existence after arriving at the destination?

You know, when I saw the hooded old man, I immediately thought of the robed figure. Could Ansem SoD have possessed that person's robe?

Strange that the Player fuses with Xehanort. I was expecting the Player to maybe merge with Ventus. Not only is there that parallel with Nightmare Chirithy and Vanitas (well, I think, NC is the Player's darkness and Vantias was originally introduced as Ventus's darkness), but now there's the question of how the heck Sora can summon Ralph in KH3. KH3's summons are all connected to Sora's heart, as explained by Nomura himself, so what's the missing link if it's not the Player's heart?

That said, when I saw screenshots of the Dream Eater scene, I remembered something that was in my mind a few days ago. In KH3D's epilogue, Sora goes to Traverse Town and meets the Dream Eaters again. Next time we see him is in KH0.2's "2.9" scene, where he arrives late and doesn't explain where he was other than "it's a secret".
KH3 never explained what the secret was, or even mentioning the secret existed at all. Maybe the tutorial was a hint, but that's it, we have nothing. Could we be getting a second Sleeping Realm game with KH2 clothes Sora? Maybe that's how Sora connects to Ralph?

Also, I don't know if there's any meaning to it because they're both Norse names, but Sigurd's name is Japanese is extremely similar to Skuld's. Like, get the name スクルド (Skuld), change the first letter and put a dakuten on the second, and you get シグルド (Sigurd).

As for the Luxu and Brain face, maybe they are twins? Like, Lauriam has a sister, Baldr has a sister, and Eraqus's grandfather is important. There's a theory that the 2nd Phase will involve more blood relations unlike the Dark Seeker Saga. If that's correct, than having a set of twins would fit. And besides, with KH everyone is so used to cloning and body possession that some old-fashioned "they're twins" would legit be the surprising option.

Sorarocks93

If the player is indeed Xehanort reincarnated, then watching the KH3 ending hits a bit different. When Xehanort's and Eraqus' hearts float upwards, that's not just Xehanort's heart anymore.

Unless the Player's heart is now inside Terra's.

LoneFox

In any case, it shouldn't have any meaning outside the context of Dark Road, because Xehanort is dead for good in the main storyline.

Are we sure? Because between KH3 having separate profiles for "Boy in Black" and "Boy in White" despite their obvious identities, Eraqus and Xehanort transforming into their young forms, Nomura bringing back every character for KH3 and freezing ages for 12 years, and Xehanort somehow knowing about Ureality, something that can't be attributed to him having the Player's memories and which might be neccessary for the heroes going forward, I'm not so sure about his death being that permanent. I feel like Xehanort (and maybe Eraqus too) will return as a teenager and maybe with a new name.

In fact, with all the hints the Daybreak group will return, there must be some way for the Player to come back, specially because they form a trio with Ephemer and Skuld, and Xehanort's heart is the Player's last known location.

DarkGrey Heroine

May 31, 2021 @ 07:04 pmOffline

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I am devastated, memories of 2015 playing the browser version in Japanese I barely understood flash before my eyes.
Looking at my old screenshots folder I seriously get emotional

[SPOILER]
cries in meetingEphemera.jpg
[ATTACH type="full" width="680px" alt="meeting Ephemera.jpg"]13980[/ATTACH][/SPOILER]
I'm with you all waiting for updates and excited for interpretations. *raises Keyblade to all the players as well
But y'all tell me ONE thing
HOW, just HOW are you going to pet and feed your Dream Eaters in DDD NOW?
GOsh I'll never be able to look my Keeba Tiger and Me Me Bunny in the eyes the same way again holy shit

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 07:24 pmOffline

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G-SANtos

But that brings the question, why does the pod sometimes remain and other times disappear from existence after arriving at the destination?

All of them that were used for time travel disappeared. Ephemer used his as a literal lifeboat instead of launching it. I wonder if that is a trollish response from the developers for our reaction to the ark vs. lifeboat thing...

G-SANtos

As for the Luxu and Brain face, maybe they are twins? Like, Lauriam has a sister, Baldr has a sister, and Eraqus's grandfather is important. There's a theory that the 2nd Phase will involve more blood relations unlike the Dark Seeker Saga. If that's correct, than having a set of twins would fit. And besides, with KH everyone is so used to cloning and body possession that some old-fashioned "they're twins" would legit be the surprising option.

This has an age difference problem. In Back Cover, Luxu is clearly an adult. Brain is one of the older wielders, but I would assume he is still a teenager.

G-SANtos

Are we sure? Because between KH3 having separate profiles for "Boy in Black" and "Boy in White" despite their obvious identities, Eraqus and Xehanort transforming into their young forms, Nomura bringing back every character for KH3 and freezing ages for 12 years, and Xehanort somehow knowing about Ureality, something that can't be attributed to him having the Player's memories and which might be neccessary for the heroes going forward, I'm not so sure about his death being that permanent. I feel like Xehanort (and maybe Eraqus too) will return as a teenager and maybe with a new name.

We can never be 100% sure, but considering the details of their death scene, I would find it extremely lame if either Xehanort of Eraqus is brought back. There is an implicit promise that they are gone for good. BTW, the same is true for both Riku Replicas as well.

Zettaflare

May 31, 2021 @ 07:27 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax

You never know, that may be the Scala Ad Caelum that Mickey ends up visiting.

Would be nice. I've seen some people theorize that maybe the Scala we see in the ending is one of the different islands in that world instead of a past version

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 07:29 pmOffline

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You know I don't think ALL dream eaters are dandelions just the dandelions became dream eaters. The dream eaters in DDD are specifically said to be our dreams made manifest and we like actually create them and the entire point of them was because creating people didn't make sense. So I think people are kind of jumping the gun saying "oh my god all dream eaters are dandelions" it's more they are the progenitors I think.

DarkGrey Heroine

May 31, 2021 @ 07:39 pmOffline

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Hirokey123

You know I don't think ALL dream eaters are dandelions just the dandelions became dream eaters. The dream eaters in DDD are specifically said to be our dreams made manifest and we like actually create them and the entire point of them was because creating people didn't make sense. So I think people are kind of jumping the gun saying "oh my god all dream eaters are dandelions" it's more they are the progenitors I think.

I get it but even so, the idea of them being related still weirds me out, especially since we actually have dream eater recipes and create them as you said. But well, since people in KH can turn into so many things already, in the end dream eaters are no exception to what they can somehow transform into.

AdrianXXII

May 31, 2021 @ 07:42 pmOffline

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Zettaflare

Would be nice. I've seen some people theorize that maybe the Scala we see in the ending is one of the different islands in that world instead of a past version

I mean the darker colors scheme and general look would imply it is likely another island. The place looks similar yet distinct from what we've seen. I still think it's most likely in the past, but a different island in the past.

Random thought, but what if there's two Brains? One Luxu being the one in the real world and Brain being his data copy?

U.N. Owen

May 31, 2021 @ 07:45 pmOffline

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Does this ending make more sense with or without alcohol?

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kvyra

May 31, 2021 @ 07:48 pmOffline

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kirabook

Given we didn't see the actual war over the x-blade, does this confirm there was a war BEFORE this one and that was the real Keyblade War fight? Meaning, there has been more than one Keyblade War, meaning, they've introduced yet another prequel to the series?

Yo gots me thinking what if Yozora was that first war, and his Era is really the far past before the keyblade was even created..

kvyra

Yo gots me thinking what if Yozora was that first war, and his Era is really the far past before the keyblade was even created..

Kind of like how ffx was like.. sorry for the double post

Cumguardian69

May 31, 2021 @ 07:51 pmOffline

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U.N. Owen

Does this ending make more sense with or without alcohol?

Without. The ending is super easy to digest.

•dorkness has to have a form in order to be eradicated

•7 prime dorknesses are in MoM and his kids

*6 lesser dorknesses are elsewhere

•Luxu almost certainly begins his bizarre adventure by bodyhopping Brain using his stando NO NAME

KeybladeLordSora

May 31, 2021 @ 07:57 pmOffline

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[ATTACH type="full"]13981[/ATTACH][ATTACH type="full"]13982[/ATTACH][ATTACH type="full"]13983[/ATTACH][ATTACH type="full"]13984[/ATTACH]

Someone on tumblr made this comparison.

It's either a reach or another part of the ol' 5D chess.

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 08:13 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

[ATTACH type="full" alt="98653888-243a-4084-b65c-e4eb6a67129a.jpg"]13981[/ATTACH][ATTACH type="full" alt="8cd27406-76e5-472b-bf1d-18db0241c6d0.jpg"]13982[/ATTACH][ATTACH type="full" alt="5a004675-5846-4f79-b4c4-138876af5b3c.jpg"]13983[/ATTACH][ATTACH type="full" alt="2136c970-a7a7-4c0c-85f8-d0e8bd822e94.jpg"]13984[/ATTACH]

Someone on tumblr made this comparison.

It's either a reach or another part of the ol' 5D chess.

Kingdom Hearts III ReMind recreated Versus XIII, this is not at all a reach.

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 08:23 pmOffline

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Added goldpanner's translations to the OP! Gotta ask y'all to wait until tonight for videos ?

ShardofTruth

May 31, 2021 @ 08:29 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Someone on tumblr made this comparison.

It's either a reach or another part of the ol' 5D chess.


This part of Scala ad Caelum looks more Victorian to me, versus was far more modern, especially the buildings.
[SPOILER][/SPOILER]

Sephiroth0812

May 31, 2021 @ 08:35 pmOffline

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Sign

Added goldpanner's translations to the OP! Gotta ask y'all to wait until tonight for videos ?


I'm sure the text alone will already help much to get a better grasp of things.
Many thanks for the quick delivery. :love:

ShardofTruth

This part of Scala ad Caelum looks more Victorian to me, versus was far more modern, especially the buildings.
[SPOILER][/SPOILER]

Strangely the scenery also gives me some Akademeia vibes from Final Fantasy Type-0 with the Ephemer statue taking the place of the Vermillion Firebird!?

The form of the fountain also reminds me of the Dream Drop Distance version of Traverse Town.

---
Edit:

"Luxu the traitor" Huh?
So finally the whole traitor-issue is put to rest by a single sentence of the MoM if we can assume he's telling the truth and actually expecting Luxu to become a traitor in some form.

If what the MoM tells Luxu in the first video of the finale is passed on by him to Ava when they meet in the original X[chi] I can clearly understand why she would be so devastated afterwards.
Although I do expect Luxu to not tell her everything, just the parts he thinks are necessary to further let things spiral into conflict.

KeybladeLordSora

May 31, 2021 @ 08:43 pmOffline

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Nomura bout to revive Fabula Nova Crystallis bois

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 08:43 pmOffline

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If that woman isn't Skuld, could she be Verdandi? We already have Skuld and Urd.

Luminary

May 31, 2021 @ 08:54 pmOffline

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With the Foretellers being the vessels for the seven worst darknesses and being named after the seven deadly sins, it connects that Vanitas is/was a physical vessel for one of the other darknesses since his name means vanity, which is also considered a sin.

the red monster

May 31, 2021 @ 08:55 pmOffline

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kvyra

Kind of like how ffx was like.. sorry for the double post

You can edit the OG post next time.

also i'll be sad if we never get to visit old scala. it's looks fantastic and on UE4/5 it could be really pretty.
nomura you can't just show me something and never give it to me, come on. : (

LoneFox

May 31, 2021 @ 08:55 pmOffline

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I'm just pointing out the most interesting things in the translation before I go to sleep:

Sign

Master: As for the other six, well. Five will be trapped in the new Union Leaders who will come after we're gone, and one will stay trapped in this world.

Sign

Luxu: It's a cage built to trap the darkness. If it gets swallowed, it's not coming back.

Contradictory plans between these two. Is it because the plan got derailed and Luxu knows what is going to happen (because he has lived through it as Brain already) or is MoM just talking BS in the first one?

Sign

Luxu: You're brilliant in every sense of the word. It'd be a shame for your life to end here.

This can be interpreter as a threat (as it was in the other, lower quality translation) or as an offer to help... which one is the right way?

AdrianXXII

May 31, 2021 @ 08:56 pmOffline

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The translations really help understand what's going on, though there's still things I don't quite feel I understand especially at the end.

Like is Xehanort's mom Skuld or just someone that looked like her. How were Elrena and Lauriam recompleted and why in those worlds? It seems like Sigurd was resposible for Brains recomplition, so perhaps other Scala citizens were tasked with getting Lauriam and Elrena to those worlds. I'm surprised Brain didn't seem to suffer memory loss, like I was expecting him and the others to.
Also did Luxu body hope into Brain after sending a version of Brain to the future? Or how are we to read that scene in the bad lands?

That said I'm glad we now have a better understanding of the Darknesses. There were 13 of them, the strongest were trapped in the original masters, with Vanitas being a derivative of one of the lesser 6. I do wonder what happened to the Darkess that Luxu was talking to. It also seems Darkness can control people without possessing them. Though the wording they used for the player to abandon their meatbag indicates perhaps Player tricked them into thinking that one of them had possessed them, unless they were just trying to encourage player to become a darkling.

Guess we also have confirmation as to why Xehanort had memories from the Player, but we still don't know why Eraqus did too.

I feel there's a lot more to process here now with the fuller picture, but I think I'll do so tomorrow. Really looking forward to seeing everyone else's takes when I get up in the morning.

Luminary

May 31, 2021 @ 09:03 pmOffline

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LoneFox

This can be interpreter as a threat (as it was in the other, lower quality translation) or as an offer to help... which one is the right way?


I think it’s a mix. I think Luxu is suggesting that him taking Brain’s body would be a favor to help Brain survive the end of the world. That’s how I read it at least.

Sephiroth0812

May 31, 2021 @ 09:11 pmOffline

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LoneFox

I'm just pointing out the most interesting things in the translation before I go to sleep:


Contradictory plans between these two. Is it because the plan got derailed and Luxu knows what is going to happen (because he has lived through it as Brain already) or is MoM just talking BS in the first one?


This can be interpreter as a threat (as it was in the other, lower quality translation) or as an offer to help... which one is the right way?

In the KH 3 reports Luxu does point out that a "virus" derailed the original plan and I do recall that the original instructions for the new Union Leaders were to split the Dandelions again into the five Unions which if I remember correctly they didn't do with Lauriam pointing out there being no time table given so they could easily postphone the re-installation of the Unions.

Four of the "lesser" Darknesses seem to be trapped now thanks to Player fooling them while another is trapped/sealed inside Ventus if the previous updates are to be believed.
That leaves however one "lesser" Darkness unaccounted for as well as the status of that one.
I do theorize that this Darkness is the one that helped Maleficent and eventually faced off with and battled Luxu during the first part of the finale.

As for where it ended up...Luxu still strolling around tells us that he either "won" the clash with that Darkness or managed at least to either incapacitate it or forced it to flee.
In the first scenario it would be possible that Luxu either sealed that Darkness also within himself in addition to the "greater" Darkness he already has thanks to the MoM or maybe he sealed it away in No Name itself or somewhere in a part of the world that will later become part of Scala ad Caelum?

As for Luxu's last statement to Brain that can indeed be read either way and since we have no voice over to distinguish tone it isn't easy to pinpoint if it is a threat or genuine praise and an offer of help.
If it is the latter however, Luxu would be clearly going against his role and task...possibly why the MoM called him "Luxu the traitor" beforehand.

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ZeVaine

May 31, 2021 @ 09:11 pmOffline

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I almost wonder if Luxu either loses/openly accepts his heart to Darkness/ it posesses him (he behaves different while talking to brain). He's still somwehat himself, and even is willing to play along as he role of Luxu to make the MoM think he's still in control? I dunno, maybe not.

Because normal Luxu would have no reason to take his body yet... unless by possessing Brain, he's actually helping Brain by letting him escape via taking his body... since Luxu could escape on his own, but since Brain couldn't, by ejecting his heart he was actually able to somehow save him? Hmm...

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kristi-swat

May 31, 2021 @ 09:22 pmOffline

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what I keep thinking is that if Luxu had taken Brain's body, when he says 'MMHBMGK' in badlands (which is the cutscene we've seen in BC) it wouldn’t be the same voice as throughout back cover :/ and we know his voice has changed at least once with Xigbar.

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 09:36 pmOffline

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AdrianXXII

Is Xehanort's mom Skuld or just someone that looked like her.

We don't even know if that's her biological mother or just a maternal guardian. We could very well have a Final Fantasy VIII homage where the kids come from an orphanage.

Zettaflare

May 31, 2021 @ 09:44 pmOffline

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I think the woman could be his biological mother. Her eye color looks similar to Xehanort's before they turned gold to me. That could hint at a family connection

Plus actual blood relationships are a thing in regards to Chi and Dark Road

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roXas2.0

May 31, 2021 @ 09:48 pmOffline

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The_Echo

That scene is a continuation of the final scene from Back Cover, so it's before the events of χ[chi].
Which means that's Luxu's original face.

A heart can travel through time as long as a vessel is waiting, right? Does that mean [SPOILER] Luxu possibly taught Brain to send his heart into the future where a suitable vessel awaits (how Brain ends up in Scala) while Luxu took over Brain's empty body in Daybreak Town?[/SPOILER]

Cumguardian69

May 31, 2021 @ 09:53 pmOffline

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That woman cant be Skuld she dont have the same eye color. P

Hirokey123

May 31, 2021 @ 10:02 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

what I keep thinking is that if Luxu had taken Brain's body, when he says 'MMHBMGK' in badlands (which is the cutscene we've seen in BC) it wouldn’t be the same voice as throughout back cover :/ and we know his voice has changed at least once with Xigbar.

I mean his voice might actually not change and that's just what Luxu's voice would sound like if he was older because Luxu was like a young adult if that and Braig is a middle age looking man.

Sign

May 31, 2021 @ 10:10 pmOffline

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LoneFox

This can be interpreter as a threat (as it was in the other, lower quality translation) or as an offer to help... which one is the right way?

They certainly meant for it to be construed both ways given the face reveal, but since Brain does get sent off in the ark, I think it's meant to be more sympathetic than threatening.

Lemme revise that to be a bit more neutral lol

Cumguardian69

May 31, 2021 @ 10:16 pmOffline

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One thing 5o remember is that getting bodyhopped doee not inherently mean bad. A heart and a person can be restored. See Terra - Xehanort hopped him, his heart got trapped in Terranort's stand, and Sora/Riku saved him.

Alpha Baymax

May 31, 2021 @ 10:43 pmOffline

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Zip

With the Foretellers being the vessels for the seven worst darknesses and being named after the seven deadly sins, it connects that Vanitas is/was a physical vessel for one of the other darknesses since his name means vanity, which is also considered a sin.

Smart observation, the Foretellers really are representative of the Seven Deadly Sins/Seven Heavenly Virtues.

Ballad of Caius

May 31, 2021 @ 10:43 pmOffline

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My theory with Brain being in Scala is the following:
* Luxu planned Brain to survive and end up in Scala
* Luxu took over Brain's body
* After taking over his body, Luxu put Brain's heart into one of the pods
* Luxu survived long enough to live in Scala, and when it came time, he discarded Brain's body and jumped into another one
* This is why Luxu isn't seen wearing Brain's hat: he stored it as a memento to be used in order for him to be remembered in the future, and thus, could use that as a waypoint to that era

I think this is what happened or Luxu used himself as a waypoint and maintained the memory of Brain alive

Or Luxu somehow preserved Brain's body. Maybe the MoM is the original owner of the pods seen in the Twilight Town Mansion?

the red monster

May 31, 2021 @ 10:48 pmOffline

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the scene hits different now
the fact ven shows up at the end smiling means nomura had this planned all along.

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Conorgerardmcgee

May 31, 2021 @ 11:08 pmOffline

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I’m a tad confused. I thought all of the additional Dandelions were in the data world? And if so, didn’t Luxu just say that that world won’t fall asleep like the others thought it would? If that’s the case then how are they all turning into dream eaters?

GreyouTT

May 31, 2021 @ 11:09 pmOffline

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playing catch up on updates on my phone, was this foreshadowing?

[IMG width="620px"]https://i.imgur.com/zt4frSU.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG width="620px"]https://i.imgur.com/H1l8zT1.jpg[/IMG]

Barrett

May 31, 2021 @ 11:13 pmOffline

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God, the new Dearly Beloved they dropped in the end credits is something else. ?

The_Echo

May 31, 2021 @ 11:19 pmOffline

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The whole finale not only confirms Luxu's the traitor, but why

1) He used one of the arks for the True Dandelion, which he clearly wasn't supposed to do
2) He assisted Brain in reaching the future somehow, despite the Master telling him he couldn't interfere

Makes me wonder how loyal he really is. He didn't seem too fond of him and his friends being sacrificed for the greater good.

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ZeVaine

May 31, 2021 @ 11:47 pmOffline

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The_Echo

The whole finale not only confirms Luxu's the traitor, but why

1) He used one of the arks for the True Dandelion, which he clearly wasn't supposed to do
2) He assisted Brain in reaching the future somehow, despite the Master telling him he couldn't interfere

Makes me wonder how loyal he really is. He didn't seem too fond of him and his friends being sacrificed for the greater good.

And then there's the fact that the MoM completely expects Luxu to not follow his role, even openly calls him an imposter/traitor... hard to know what will fall into his expectations and what won't. The fact he knew to visit Xehanort at some point too... was it because he knew that "player's" hearts was going into it and had a strong heart? Did Luxu run into him at some point, tipping him off to the MoM?

I have doubts about the authenticity of the book of prophecies working in the way that the MoM suggests, but I am completely ready for Dark Road to give 30% answers 70% more questions just like every time we get more info lol

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Idreamaboutcats

June 1, 2021 @ 12:07 amOffline

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My other takeaway from this is, turns out Xehanort’s complex towards Eraqus is invalid after all. The guy’s also a blue blood.

We also finally get a name drop on the traitor!

Ballad of Caius

June 1, 2021 @ 12:30 amOffline

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I think the idea of there being a traitor was both a lie and a fact. A lie because the MoM wanted the Foretellers to be on each other's tails and true because it was Luxu the one that ended up being the traitor, but a traitor to the MoM's plan. Even so , the MoM knew Luxu was gonna betray him.

Cumguardian69

June 1, 2021 @ 12:33 amOffline

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How does Luxu betrayal mom?

Moonlight Aqua

June 1, 2021 @ 01:20 amOffline

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I'm still not understanding why Luxu looks like Brain, but like others have said, it could be that he did the whole "Have another body in another time" so he can go where he needs to go. And Luxu gave him the No Name so he can continue Luxu's role, while he took over Brain's body and now looks like that?

I mean, with how Nomura is, I wouldn't question this theory at all.

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dropp

June 1, 2021 @ 01:42 amOffline

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You know, re-reading Secret Report 11... I wonder if Luxu is actually referring to himself there in a rhethorical manner.





Observations, Excerpt 1— I have seen it through; the Keyblade War unfolded exactly as written on the Lost Page. Now, the Keyblade the Master entrusted to me must be bequeathed to another. Five Union leaders have been chosen from the surviving Dandelions. I will pass the Keyblade to one of them, and then continue watching the future unfold. Yet it seems that someone has pulled the old switcheroo. One of the Five is an imposter, someone the Master did not choose. They represent a virus in the program he so carefully wrote.



At first, I thought this was meant to be Ven, but it could very well refer to Luxu taking over Brain's body. That would definitely count as a manner of impersonation. Plus, Luxu was not chosen by the MoM, so he fits that requirement as well.

"Someone has pulled the old switcheroo" - It was me all along. Ha!

And we know Luxu is the "traitor" according to the MoM, so he could be considered a virus as well. He's the one that MoM is foreseeing as interfering with his master plan.




The virus has begun a strange undertaking: a reckless plot to allow the Five to escape into another worldline. Surely such a thing can't be possible? We're talking about the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War. But these children are no Masters. They haven't the means...unless, of course, a certain lady of magic summoned here from the future knows more than I do.



The use of the arks was expected by MoM, so there's no reason for the Five Union Leaders using them to be considered a "reckless plot". However, Brain was sent forward in time somehow. He did not use an ark, since his memories were kept intact (it was confirmed that the arks erased the user's memories). That probably means that Luxu helped Brain by sending him to the future, dismissing the MoM's orders of not interfering with the Dandelions. Now this would be considered "reckless", since Luxu is doing everything to make sure all the Dandelions he could reach were sent forward in time, directly interfering in their fates.

The Maleficent mention there is relevant because there's one character who actually interacts with both Luxu and Maleficent. That being the Darkness Luxu meets while sending the True Dandelion forward in time in the ark. The Darkness knows about the mechanics of time-traveling, so it's not out of question that Luxu learned how to do so from it (perhaps he overhead the conversation between Maleficent and Darkness?). He has the tools for it, since the No Name could've unlocked Brain's heart and then he sent it forward in time. Brain's empty body was thus left behind for Luxu to put his heart inside.

With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if Sigurd is just Luxu again. He has the memories and a belonging of Brain after all. In other words, Luxu found a loophole to keep the Dandelions alive in the future. He sends a Dandelion's heart to the future, takes over the abandoned body, and then acts as the Dandelions' anchor after living through time (in this case, Brain).

It's also no coincidence that Skuld, for example, was found in Radiant Garden, where Braig was working. It's possible that Lauriam, Elrena and Ventus all ended in places Braig/Xigbar visited and left a medium belonging at. We also know that Xigbar directly recruited Marluxia and Larxene into Org XIII, so he knew about their whereabouts. Ventus is the only one that he didn't manage to pick up since Xehanort did it before he had the chance.




The whole Union leader thing was supposed to be by the books. Are these new events just another phase in the Master's grand plan?



I guess here we have Luxu wondering if what he's doing is truly against the MoM's expectations, changing the future, or if it's all according to the MoM's plan. He knows the MoM better than anyone else, so it's not surprising if he thinks that his attempts to change fate are futile.

All in all, this would make the Secret Report 11 a big red herring. Luxu was pretty much just reporting his own actions and using some rhethoric to make it look like he was just observing and not involving himself. Considering how meta Xigbar can get, it would be in-character and very much a twist Nomura would come up with.

Zettaflare

June 1, 2021 @ 01:47 amOffline

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Since Xehanort is sharing a few parallels with Kairi it'd be cool if he was also adopted by the mayor of Destiny Islands at the time

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kvyra

June 1, 2021 @ 02:22 amOffline

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[ATTACH type="full"]13985[/ATTACH]everyone said I was crazy lol

Rainclouds

June 1, 2021 @ 02:39 amOffline

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I'm assuming they were all dropped off in different times.

Ephemer = Scala has yet to be founded
Brain = in Scala. Scala looks the same as it does with Skuld.
Skuld = may or may not be that person in the scene, may have aged a few years. Scala looks the same as it does with Brain.
Ven = Graveyard
Lauriam/Elrena = disney worlds

If Xehanort and Eraqus are supposed to be the same age, then Brain would have been dropped in Scala some years before that scene with babynort.
But if Brain and Skuld were dropped into the same time, then would they not have found each other?

There are still some questions left that need answering. Dark Road will hopefully give these answers.

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Idreamaboutcats

June 1, 2021 @ 02:49 amOffline

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kvyra

[ATTACH type="full" alt="Screenshot_20210531-191320_Chrome.jpg"]13985[/ATTACH]everyone said I was crazy lol

Go claim the foreteller award. You deserve it.

the red monster

June 1, 2021 @ 02:55 amOffline

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Guys nomura is calling us out


for those who didn't get it, it's about us, the players, being xehanort.

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darknessofheart

June 1, 2021 @ 03:23 amOffline

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Really at this point, I'm starting to wonder if Xehanort was truly an evil person at all or just a bitter and angry kid being possessed by one of the darknesses that forced him to become the guy we end up fighting for the entire saga. He clearly had a massive amount of horrible darkness in him, as described by Ava in BBS when he grabbed her, which makes me think that perhaps one of the more deadly ones got to him or he made a pact with it. To add to this, Eraqus accuses Xehanort of being taken by darkness in BBS and Xehanort doesn't deny it.

Clearly, a pivotal event happened to cause him to have yellow eyes which will probably be covered in the last Dark Road update. Perhaps MoM wanted to use Xehanort to give this darkness a form that can be destroyed (like the Foretellers), which it was when Sora, Donald, and Goofy struck down Xehanort in KHIII. We see darkness excel from his body, perhaps indicating he was finally purged and allowed his true motives to surface. Would explain his sudden shift into a more sympathetic light. This may have been an original darkness or an even more extreme variant that was created when the darkness spread across the worlds in the future/present.

Makes me also wonder if Xehanort's departure from Scala was an attempt to prevent the original timeline from happening. where he stayed at Scala and become a Keyblade Master devoted to darkness. Perhaps Ansem SoD was from this original timeline and once he realized that someone was trying to change this original timeline, he made sure to visit Xehanort on Destiny Islands and ensure that he would grow in the prophesized Keyblade Master to bring about the second Keyblade war.

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DrShimo

June 1, 2021 @ 03:24 amOffline

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Zettaflare

Since Xehanort is sharing a few parallels with Kairi it'd be cool if he was also adopted by the mayor of Destiny Islands at the time

Honestly Xehanort now encompasses all 3. From the outside world like Kairi, wishing to escape like Riku, and maybe not consciously but with Player, he’s made a “friends are my power” speech like Sora and had a similar moment of connecting as a baby then being dropped off on the island like Ven.

the red monster

June 1, 2021 @ 03:39 amOffline

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The name of the game might have been a hint all this time?
KH(kingdom hearts)U(r)X(ehanort)
maybe it's a reach but still cool

Luminary

June 1, 2021 @ 03:55 amOffline

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I’m confident Skuld is still Subject X and she was dropped in Radiant Garden. But her similarity to Xehanort’s possible mother could be related to his interest in her. Even if subconsciously. And there could be a deeper connection.

I wonder if the four Darknesses in the cable are gone for good. It’s weird that it seems MoM was wrong about them traveling through time via the Union Leaders. Of the five that were in the data world, only the one that possessed Ventus successfully made that trip it seems. The four that remained were trapped in the cable and possibly destroyed. Meanwhile, the sixth who fought Luxu is unaccounted for.


the red monster

The name of the game might have been a hint all this time?
KH(kingdom hearts)U(r)X(ehanort)
maybe it's a reach but still cool


With Xehanort’s name being an anagram for Another X, I think that X (chi) in the original title represents the Player. Xehanort is another version of the player or something.

Eonstar890

June 1, 2021 @ 03:57 amOffline

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Eonstar890

Hmm this sparked an idea in my head. What if the foretellers exist actually to counteract against the six deadly sins that they are named after? With this line of thinking the six masters are supposed to eliminate the six darknesses remaining in the MoM ultimate plan.
Or alternatively his grand plan was to use them to trap the six darknesses into a form in which he could then defeat them. A set of six sacrificial pawns thought necessary to finally defeat the darkness...

OMG I ACTUALLY SORTA PREDICTED SOMETHING :,) wow all my time posting here has not been in vain.

This finale was very rewarding to me in the sense that it finally shows so much of what we knew was bound to happen, and also gave good closure to the whole X saga. But of course there exists several large questions.

1. Brain and Luxu having the same face... I like the idea of Luxu using Brains body Ofer sending his heart forward the most. It makes the most sense and fits well with the "what a waste" line.
2. Skuld = Xehanorts Mom? That snippet better be more well explored in Dark road.
3. My biggest concern, the MoMs true plan is trapping the 13 darknesses into human bodies so that they can be completely eliminated. But has this plan not already failed? Ephemer lived out his life and built Scala, and it seems the same happens with Skuld and Brain. Now of the 13, 7 should be in the MoM and foretellers, while 1 was trapped in data and 5 placed in the new leaders. The explanation for this that would make sense to me is that the 4 the player trapped were all part of the 13 meaning that instead of trapping 1 they trapped 4 so the new leaders would only actually need 2. One is with Ventus and the other is potentially in Lauriam or Elrena. Elrena isn't even a leader (fake or real) so the most likely answer would be Lauriam.

Overall I am overjoyed to see the end of this half decade journey and I am excited to see what the future holds in terms of whole new releases rather than episodic drip feeds :)

The_Echo

June 1, 2021 @ 04:07 amOffline

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Now it makes sense why Dark Road asks us to put in a player name and displays it on the status screen, even though there's no multiplayer system or other gameplay reason for it.

LoneFox

June 1, 2021 @ 05:10 amOffline

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Sephiroth0812

As for Luxu's last statement to Brain that can indeed be read either way and since we have no voice over to distinguish tone it isn't easy to pinpoint if it is a threat or genuine praise and an offer of help.
If it is the latter however, Luxu would be clearly going against his role and task...possibly why the MoM called him "Luxu the traitor" beforehand.

Not necessarily. The talk just before was about giving the time travellers their bodies back, and that is a part of Luxu's role anyway. Giving the No Name keyblade to Brain may also be involved, and we don't know if he had any keyblade at all after giving Master's Defender to Ephemer.

Also, if I happen to be right about Brain and Luxu being the same person, then...
Sign

Brain: Well…… Only to give what remains of my life to fulfill this duty.

...this line is easily one of the most hilarious in the whole series. Be careful with what you promise!

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Nathanhale

June 1, 2021 @ 07:24 amOffline

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How does brain get to the future. All of the pods are gone

LoneFox

June 1, 2021 @ 07:35 amOffline

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Nathanhale

How does brain get to the future. All of the pods are gone

There are 14 pods total for the two versions of the machine. At that point, five of them have been launched into the future, one is broken, and three are in the data world. That leaves five of them available for him. We don't know where they are, but Luxu probably did.

Chie

June 1, 2021 @ 07:41 amOffline

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So Brain and Braig being almost the same name really was significant after all

Also not a lot of talk about Sigurd here. This dude is interesting to me, and he's somehow part of a group with an "HQ" + wireless communication that knew exactly when Brain would be arriving. Is he really a resident of Scala, or part of something bigger?

Sign

June 1, 2021 @ 07:43 amOffline

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Videos are up, thanks for your eternal patience~

LoneFox

June 1, 2021 @ 07:46 amOffline

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Chie

So Brain and Braig being almost the same name really was significant after all

And there is a third character in DR who appears to follow the same pattern... ?

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korr4k

June 1, 2021 @ 07:47 amOffline

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Nathanhale

How does brain get to the future. All of the pods are gone

My 2 cents: Luxu probably possessed Brain because he was the only one able to survive the cataclysm, this was the only way to preserve the guy without a pod. It is proved that the possession doesn't destroy the host heart, take Terra as an example, so my idea is that when Luxu made the next jump he freed Brain and left him in the plaza where it was told to Strelizia she would have found him

This explains also why Luxu has his appearance in that cutscene

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korr4k

June 1, 2021 @ 07:52 amOffline

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Btw is this the confirmation that Kindom Hearts, the thing in the sky, is actually the "god" of the cycle of life?
Actually, we should have seen it coming a long time ago, it was stated IIRC that hearts can't be created and that they return to KH when the body dies. It just makes sense that new life comes from KH too, a cycle of reincarnation nonetheless

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Idreamaboutcats

June 1, 2021 @ 08:35 amOffline

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Looking through all this, I'm not sure if I can classify Luxu, or Xigbar for that matter, as a villain. Antagonist, yes, but a villain? He is obedient to a fault, even if he has the same sentiments as Ava, both being protective of the key kids, and even going against one of the darkness to gratify that desire.

korr4k

Btw is this the confirmation that Kindom Hearts, the thing in the sky, is actually the "god" of the cycle of life?
Actually, we should have seen it coming a long time ago, it was stated IIRC that hearts can't be created and that they return to KH when the body dies. It just makes sense that new life comes from KH too, a cycle of reincarnation nonetheless

Well if that isn't the million munny question that's been plaguing us these last 19 years. It isn't exactly a god, although it might be sentient, just as worlds are. Nobody actually knows what it is, although a lot of characters talked about what it could be. We do know bringing it about is dangerous, even the Master forbade it.

I don't know where you heard that, but Nobodies, replicas, and Pinocchio sort of disproved that, although where their hearts came from, or all hearts for that matter, is a different story.

Katsagu

June 1, 2021 @ 09:04 amOffline

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I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but goddamn UX. How dare you.
That was honestly great. Way better than it had any right to be. I'm still happy that UX is over, but this ending almost made it worth it.

On the ending, I really loved that dream eater reveal, most "HOLY SHIT" moment from it all. Loved the Ephemer statue and "old" scala, it looks incredible. Really enjoyed the foretellers being vessels twist, I really like those designs what can I say and I'm glad they're coming back as bad guys.

On the other hand, xehanort somehow found his way once again into another story, which like...I'm tired of him honestly. That final luxu is brain but is also still brain was very strange and I'm scared of what will come from that.

NoWay

June 1, 2021 @ 09:07 amOffline

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I’ve watched the cutscenes and I’m really impressed. Everything is amazing. I still need to know what happened to the Union Leaders after their escape.
And is it safe to assume that the Darknesses traveled to the real world with the Foretellers by the end of KH3?

Or are the Foretellers now the next antagonists because of being vessels for the Darknesses? This is what I have understood after watching the cutscenes. And I really love how vicious the MoM is while explaining Luxu his plan. To me it also seems that Luxu wants to stop the MoM’s plan, which is why the MoM calls him “the traitor”.

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zander1995

June 1, 2021 @ 09:33 amOffline

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I can't believe an ark pod, called a lifeboat in global, was used as a literal lifeboat by Ephemer

AleMustDie

June 1, 2021 @ 09:37 amOffline

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I'm more confused than ever. But really interesting. Nomura adds elements every time, looks like KH never gonna end.
Please, I dont wanna die before seeing the true KH's Final.

Looking at KHIII and the Chess Game, 4 Foretellers + Darkesses are our enemies for sure. Also 1 Darkness is still in Ven, staying at Re Mind
Plus, Darkness and MoM were friends? I mean before that Darkness became without form.

Mmmh, and what about Xehanort, could she be Skuld, and the old hooded ? Why Xehanort has that destiny? I dont think it has something to do with the Player , anyway.

Luxu probably used Brain to go out, but what if the scene in the Land is after the one where Brain is at Scala? I mean probably the Brain's body ended like Braig one, just like a vessel.

Chie

June 1, 2021 @ 09:52 amOffline

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I believe that Darkness was referred to as a "friend" of MoM in a previous update as well, and they reinforce that here. I'm not sure what this means plot-wise, but they're the only things that know eachother from whatever era MoM came from. They may see themselves as something closer to equals than anybody else.

(This is yet another late-KH point that's very similar to something from a Kill the Past game, and so my theory of Nomura being a huge Suda fan continues on.)

AdrianXXII

June 1, 2021 @ 10:45 amOffline

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While I liked this ending, I have to admit that the more I think about it the more frustrated I become with how much of the KH3 introduced age of Fairy tale plot points just didn't get addressed.
Like they could have easily confirmed, if Skuld was Subject X or not, but instead they showed us a Woman with baby Xehanort, who looks like her, leaving us questioning if she really is Subject X.

We also don't get any clear info on what Luxu did or what happened to Ava. The events Luxu described weren't the ones we saw, which means he was either distorting the truth in his reports or there's even more that went on we didn't get to see.

I'm kind of disappointed by how every KH game now feels more like a setup for another game than a game and story that stands on it's own. It feels like they're stretching things out introducing concepts,but trying to save them for bigger titles or their own title at the same time.
Like this game establishes a lot, but most of it's own introduced plot points are left open ended for other games to pick up, which didn't really work out the way I'd have liked in the Xehanort Saga.

Hopefully we wont have to wait too long to learn what Luxu did to Brain, what happened to the girl in white and who she is. And how Mickey and friends showed up in Daybreak Town.

Alpha Baymax

June 1, 2021 @ 11:05 amOffline

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I'm curious as to how long Lauriam spends in Dwarf Woodlands and how long Elrena spends in Enchanted Dominion. I think this is the first instance where a Disney world has been fundamental to an original character's growth.

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korr4k

June 1, 2021 @ 11:07 amOffline

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AleMustDie

I'm more confused than ever. But really interesting. Nomura adds elements every time, looks like KH never gonna end.
Please, I dont wanna die before seeing the true KH's Final.

Looking at KHIII and the Chess Game, 4 Foretellers + Darkesses are our enemies for sure. Also 1 Darkness is still in Ven, staying at Re Mind
Plus, Darkness and MoM were friends? I mean before that Darkness became without form.

Mmmh, and what about Xehanort, could she be Skuld, and the old hooded ? Why Xehanort has that destiny? I dont think it has something to do with the Player , anyway.

Luxu probably used Brain to go out, but what if the scene in the Land is after the one where Brain is at Scala? I mean probably the Brain's body ended like Braig one, just like a vessel.

Mom said there are 7 major Darkness plus 6 minor ones. The 7 major are supposed to be inside MoM, 5 foretellers and Luxu. Among the 6 minor, 1 was with Ventus and later becomes Vanitas I guess, 4 are trapped in the data world and one was probably the one interacting with Luxu/Maleficent? Not sure about it

Skuld is the dark-haired girl found in Radiant Garden that Luxu kidnapped, the Xehanort's mother is similar but doesn't fit Skuld's appearance 100%. Xehanort is implied to be the reincarnation of "Player". The old hooded figure taking him when he was young is yet unknown but my gut is telling me it is old Ephemer, somehow he knew about Player decision to get reincarnated and clung to life, waiting and then watching over him. The last gift to repay his sacrifice and death by his hand

AdrianXXII

June 1, 2021 @ 11:07 amOffline

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Alpha Baymax

I'm curious as to how long Lauriam spends in Dwarf Woodlands and how long Elrena spends in Enchanted Dominion. I think this is the first instance where a Disney world has been fundamental to an original character's growth.

Yeah, I wonder what happens to them to cause such stark changes in their personalities.

Alpha Baymax

June 1, 2021 @ 11:10 amOffline

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AdrianXXII

Yeah, I wonder what happens to them to cause such stark changes in their personalities.

Wouldn't it be cool if The Evil Queen influenced Lauriam and Maleficent influenced Elrena? The timeline adds up in the respective Disney world's.

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dropp

June 1, 2021 @ 11:32 amOffline

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LoneFox

There are 14 pods total for the two versions of the machine. At that point, five of them have been launched into the future, one is broken, and three are in the data world. That leaves five of them available for him. We don't know where they are, but Luxu probably did.


Brain didn't use a pod though. Because his memories are still intact.

LoneFox

June 1, 2021 @ 11:40 amOffline

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dropp

Brain didn't use a pod though. Because his memories are still intact.

Same is true for Maleficent, who definitely used one.
It looks like the amnesia was caused by Luxu as he gave them their bodies back. But why would he do that?

Chie

June 1, 2021 @ 11:46 amOffline

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Re:KH3, the Ephemer + players scene is also kinda weird now. It makes sense on its face already in KH3, and up until this update I could see how they were setting it up (i.e. Ephemer and the other dandelions would have been stuck somewhere unreachable, their help in kh3 as basically ghosts from the past is all they can do) but now Ephemer went on to do something else entirely and the other dandelions became something even different-er.

But honestly, that's the thing about KH3 in general (except in its fringes) especially when compared to UX. KH3 is such a standard on-its-face game, where most of the story is "the things we said were going to happen, happen". All the heroes come back and all the villains come back and they have a big fight scene. At least in my opinion it's the simplest KH of all, while UX is the exact opposite: every update introduces more questions, implications, ambiguities, series-spanning recontextualizations, series-spanning themes even. And no easy answer is provided for these in the end. The gap between the kinds of stories they are is so vast that it feels strange to think back to KH3 at all for me now.

All that said, I love UX for being all of that, or at least the later parts of it (I came in to actually following the story late). I don't really mind if many questions are never answered, or if the answers always lead to more questions. The atmosphere of mystery and ambiguity created by a work like this is more exciting to me than seeing things explained, and after KH3 I was worried that a lot of UX's ambiguities would be given less interesting answers than the questions they posed.

AdrianXXII

June 1, 2021 @ 11:54 amOffline

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LoneFox

Same is true for Maleficent, who definitely used one.
It looks like the amnesia was caused by Luxu as he gave them their bodies back. But why would he do that?

Maleficent seemed to have partly forgotten the events of Union X until the events of recoded reminded her, so it could be involved.

We dont even know, if the amneisa is part of the timetraveling process or if its something done outside of it. It'd be interesting if the one that initiates the return of the person can also effect how they return and how much they recall.

Brain seems to be in a similar position to the Foretellers as he seems to remember most things. Now we just need to know if that's true for the others or if he and rhe foretellers used another methode.

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korr4k

June 1, 2021 @ 12:07 pmOffline

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AdrianXXII

Maleficent seemed to have partly forgotten the events of Union X until the events of recoded reminded her, so it could be involved.

We dont even know, if the amneisa is part of the timetraveling process or if its something done outside of it. It'd be interesting if the one that initiates the return of the person can also effect how they return and how much they recall.

Brain seems to be in a similar position to the Foretellers as he seems to remember most things. Now we just need to know if that's true for the others or if he and rhe foretellers used another methode.

The foretellers went to Quadratum with MoM, there is no time travel involved. KH3 finale was already explicit about the fact that it wasn't time travel, they appeared with a portal and said "did you SUMMON as BACK?"

LoneFox

Same is true for Maleficent, who definitely used one.
It looks like the amnesia was caused by Luxu as he gave them their bodies back. But why would he do that?

If you are looking for a reason there is one very simple: for things to go accordingly to MoM's plan nobody should know about the past, especially Xehanort who ended up using Ventus, Lauriam and Skuld

2 quid is good

June 1, 2021 @ 12:15 pmOffline

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So when the hell exactly did Brain find the time to have grandkids? Because clearly the guy's just hopping around everywhere

Chie

June 1, 2021 @ 12:20 pmOffline

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2 quid is good

So when the hell exactly did Brain find the time to have grandkids? Because clearly the guy's just hopping around everywhere

You only need one night.

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kristi-swat

June 1, 2021 @ 12:21 pmOffline

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2 quid is good

So when the hell exactly did Brain find the time to have grandkids? Because clearly the guy's just hopping around everywhere

you need only 30 seconds for that :p

AdrianXXII

June 1, 2021 @ 01:28 pmOffline

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korr4k

The foretellers went to Quadratum with MoM, there is no time travel involved. KH3 finale was already explicit about the fact that it wasn't time travel, they appeared with a portal and said "did you SUMMON as BACK?

Well obviously there is some kind of time travel involved, seeing many lifetimes have passed according to Luxu.
Even if it's just a matter of timeflow that caused the timetravel, like with Aqua while in the RoD. But at this point we dont know for certain, what happened with them.

Darkness did in a previous update imply the foretellers were to use the Arcs, but that doesnt seem to be what happened.

While they didnt return in the same way as Maleficent i wouldn't quite rule out they used some method of timetravel.

Honestly at this point they could have time traveled, gone to Unreality, gone into a deep slumber or died and been summoned back from the final world. We know too little about the whole process to know for certain of any of these

NoWay

June 1, 2021 @ 01:50 pmOffline

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After all these new plot points, the next KH better NOT have too much filler content like KH3. We need a game in which the story takes time to develop. Please. And give us more original worlds.

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korr4k

June 1, 2021 @ 02:15 pmOffline

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AdrianXXII

Well obviously there is some kind of time travel involved, seeing many lifetimes have passed according to Luxu.
Even if it's just a matter of timeflow that caused the timetravel, like with Aqua while in the RoD. But at this point we dont know for certain, what happened with them.

Darkness did in a previous update imply the foretellers were to use the Arcs, but that doesnt seem to be what happened.

While they didnt return in the same way as Maleficent i wouldn't quite rule out they used some method of timetravel.

Honestly at this point they could have time traveled, gone to Unreality, gone into a deep slumber or died and been summoned back from the final world. We know too little about the whole process to know for certain of any of these

Reality and Unreality should not have the same flow of time. It is possible that Luxu's portals were connected to a certain point of existence in Quadratum and that's it. By that, I mean that for the foretellers it could have passed a couple of seconds and for Luxu centuries

Alexxio M.

June 1, 2021 @ 02:26 pmOffline

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NoWay

After all these new plot points, the next KH better NOT have too much filler content like KH3. We need a game in which the story takes time to develop. Please. And give us more original worlds.

very much true I need clarification on ephemers condition so he can come back to the current timeline. Is he unchained? did he after building scala make a line of descendants to rule scala after he inevitably passes on? Did he get to see brain again? how did he end up giving masters defender to Eraqus and also on that note was he the one to discover the land of departure? Why and how is no name in Odin’s classroom? Who the heck is Sigurd? And how was brains arival planned for? So many questions I can hardly wait for September or better yet whatever the 20th anniversary game is going to be.

KingdomShell

June 1, 2021 @ 02:33 pmOffline

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Oh. My. Dog... I don't even know what to say, mates. There are so many questions bouncing in my Koopa head right now: Is Luxu really Brain? Is the Player Xehanort himself? What is left for Brain now that he is in Scaela Ad Caelum? I'm not even sure anymore!

But all I can say is, this has been a thrilling journey for Kingdom Hearts fans like me. I never got to play Kingdom Hearts Chi myself, but watching the story unfold and progress overtime somehow got me hooked it. It got me craving for more answers that we don't know about, and even though we haven't found ALL the answers we've been looking for, this has gotten me more excited for the second phase for Kingdom Hearts, and I can't wait to see what Testuya Nomura and the Kingdom Hearts staff has in store for all of us. And I'm certainly looking forward to what awaits for us in Kingdom Hearts Dark Road.

Clue.Less

June 1, 2021 @ 02:46 pmOffline

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korr4k

The old hooded figure taking him when he was young is yet unknown but my gut is telling me it is old Ephemer, somehow he knew about Player decision to get reincarnated and clung to life, waiting and then watching over him. The last gift to repay his sacrifice and death by his hand

That's what I thought, too! But that would mean that Ephemer would live a veeeeeeery long time lol

EDIT: Thank you so so so so much [USER=89972]@Sign[/USER] and goldpanner! I had a blast watching those videos today and I'm so grateful for you giving us those English versions when Global failed us :/

EDIT 2: Clueless thoughts :
- Did Lauriam and Elrena wake in the Snow White and Aurora worlds right after Ven went there in BBS?
- The shadow that walks to Ven in the badlands doesn't look like Xehanort, does it?
- How does Luxu lose the box?
- Isn't it awesome that the final boss of the game are Ephemer and Skuld? That's some classic KH goodness. <3 Like fighting Xion and Riku.

KeybladeLordSora

June 1, 2021 @ 03:28 pmOffline

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Ephemer and Skuld as the final boss is really cool but at the same time it shows the big flaw of UX's gameplay.

You either get your ass kicked in one hit repeatedly or you spam your most powerful medals and the bosses only get one hit in before you revive and kill them

LoneFox

June 1, 2021 @ 03:29 pmOffline

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AdrianXXII

Maleficent seemed to have partly forgotten the events of Union X until the events of recoded reminded her, so it could be involved.

We dont even know, if the amneisa is part of the timetraveling process or if its something done outside of it. It'd be interesting if the one that initiates the return of the person can also effect how they return and how much they recall.

Brain seems to be in a similar position to the Foretellers as he seems to remember most things. Now we just need to know if that's true for the others or if he and rhe foretellers used another methode.

So, I did some thinking and got an idea: maybe it is the strength of the memory that matters. Maleficent was resummoned by the fairies, who remembered her very well. In Brain's case, his arrival doesn't seem to be very far in the future, and also Luxu either is Brain or used Brain's body, both of which are good reasons why he would remember Brain very well. But when the other four arrived, Luxu had centuries of body-hopping behind him. This must have affected his memory of them, and with faded memory he gets suboptimal results.

Clue.Less

That's what I thought, too! But that would mean that Ephemer would live a veeeeeeery long time lol

Or maybe he died while looking for the Player, and had the same choice as Player did. Remember that Eraqus was also having strange dreams about the past. Then compare the relationship between Ephemer and Player to that of Eraqus and Xehanort. See where this is going...?

Personally, I believe the whole joining with another heart thing is just a fourth wall breaking way to explain why we are playing as Xehanort in Dark Road. But if there is more to it than that, then what I'm suggesting is a real possibility.

Sign

June 1, 2021 @ 03:43 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Ephemer and Skuld as the final boss is really cool but at the same time it shows the big flaw of UX's gameplay.

You either get your ass kicked in one hit repeatedly or you spam your most powerful medals and the bosses only get one hit in before you revive and kill them

Ephemer and Skuld were surprisingly easy tbh. The Cy-Bugs were worse.

KeybladeLordSora

June 1, 2021 @ 03:54 pmOffline

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Sign

Ephemer and Skuld were surprisingly easy tbh. The Cy-Bugs were worse.

Yeesh. Poor Ephemer and Skuld then.

Anyways, who wants to bet that the censored word in MoM's talk about Quadratum is "Fantasy"?

SuperNova

June 1, 2021 @ 04:08 pmOffline

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I come back from a major hiatus only for the finale to drop and all I can ask is..THIS is what happens to my Player? Reincarnates only to be wrecked by a 16 year old boy with parachute pants? GG Nomura.

Sakuraba Neku

June 1, 2021 @ 04:27 pmOffline

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I'm shocked how the official global team screwed up in the big finale. They still didn't even said anything. They know we exist, right??!

Anyway moving on, this finale was crazy. You know it's truly Kingdom Hearts when it ends and you still aren't sure about everything. Even after 40 minutes of cutscenes

I'm confused about Luxu. Is that his real body or his first body swap?

I thought it was the former somehow, but I'm seeing a lot of people thinking its the latter. There was a time I thought one of the reasons why MoM and Luxu don't wear attires like the other foretellers and instead they wear black coats is to give us a hint they may not be from X era and time travelled there. When MoM disappeared without a trace I assumed he returned to the era where he came from, after put his plan in motion. I even considered the possibility of MoM being an older version of Luxu.

Xehanort didn't born in Destiny Islands. We also know Kairi isn't from there. I think Sora is safe, but maybe Riku didn't born there either?

Luxord and Demyx somebodies never appeared in this story. They can still appear in Dark Road, but until proven otherwise I will keep thinking Demyx's somebody is MoM and Luxord's somebody is from Quadratum.

I'm glad this story is finally over, but did they ever revealed who was the wielder of Nightmare Chirithy?

Props to the incredible work KHInsider staff and Goldpanner did all these years. You guys are the best!! ?

Luminary

June 1, 2021 @ 04:38 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Anyways, who wants to bet that the censored word in MoM's talk about Quadratum is "Fantasy"?

I think it’s a different f-word....

Fu– *ahem* Fiction...

That’s just going by how Ansem the Wise refers to it in Melody of Memory.

EDIT: JK. They use the term fiction earlier in the conversation, so that probably wouldn’t be bleeped out. It could be Unreality though.

Sorarocks93

June 1, 2021 @ 04:58 pmOffline

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MoM says that he wanted to raise the Foretellers to have such strong hearts that they can be vessels for the Darknesses but not get possesed.

Does that imply that Ava didn't have a strong heart? The only clue we have about her is that the Darkness that killed Strelitzia looked like her, and people theorized it's an illusion, but considering what the MoM said in this update... well... Things aren't looking good for Ava, sadly.

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Tobi

June 1, 2021 @ 04:58 pmOffline

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LoneFox

This can be interpreter as a threat (as it was in the other, lower quality translation) or as an offer to help... which one is the right way?

For sure, it is a thing about perspective, but I didn't eben thought about it being meant as a threat and Brain waking up later was for me a proof of it, that Luxu really wanted to help him.
AdrianXXII

How were Elrena and Lauriam recompleted and why in those worlds?


The first thing which I noticed there was that their surroundings fitted their symbols or motiv as Nobodies if you want to call it like that. Lauriam = flowers; Elrena = thunderstorm.

Until some minutes ago I thought it was pure symbolism, but now where I think of it, maybe the sceneries were somehow a trigger for someone passing by remembering them (subconsiously or not) and triggering this way their reapeerrance. For Lauriam it might be explainable with his keyblade, but I can't come up for any connection between Elrena and thunder prior her time as Larxene, but at the same time we learned less about Elrena than Lauriam, so there might be a connection we are not aware of yet. Furthermore in the case of a subconscious memory coming up it could fit with something what someone else said (and others also already had refferenced), that their memory loss wasnt caused by the pods, but because of something else. This else would be in this case, that the memory was only weak and so the recreation of their bodies wasn't in a perfect way.

Sephiroth0812

As for where it ended up...Luxu still strolling around tells us that he either "won" the clash with that Darkness or managed at least to either incapacitate it or forced it to flee.
In the first scenario it would be possible that Luxu either sealed that Darkness also within himself in addition to the "greater" Darkness he already has thanks to the MoM or maybe he sealed it away in No Name itself or somewhere in a part of the world that will later become part of Scala ad Caelum?

I can also imagine that this Darkness managed to posess Luxu, but he was to strong at this point and couldn't be overtaken, leading to the end, which you described. On top of it, it would explain the change of his personality, because although Luxu was at the start the stronger one between them, over time the Darkness got stronger/ Luxu became weaker.

Katsagu

June 1, 2021 @ 05:00 pmOffline

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SuperNova

I come back from a major hiatus only for the finale to drop and all I can ask is..THIS is what happens to my Player? Reincarnates only to be wrecked by a 16 year old boy with parachute pants? GG Nomura.

Honestly, I'm sure you're posting this in good fun. But I'm actually surprised people enjoyed this Player -> Xehanort thing. It's like the worst development that came out of this to me.

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Nathanhale

June 1, 2021 @ 05:14 pmOffline

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LoneFox

There are 14 pods total for the two versions of the machine. At that point, five of them have been launched into the future, one is broken, and three are in the data world. That leaves five of them available for him. We don't know where they are, but Luxu probably did.

There are only 7 in the real world. Maleficent, cloaked dandelion, lauriam, ventus, elrena use 5. 2 get sent back into data and skuld and ephemer use it to go back to the real world and then to the future. This leaves one unused stuck in the data world but 0 in the real world.

Sorarocks93

June 1, 2021 @ 05:14 pmOffline

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Katsagu

Honestly, I'm sure you're posting this in good fun. But I'm actually surprised people enjoyed this Player -> Xehanort thing. It's like the worst development that came out of this to me.

I think it was a good compromise. Canonizing the Player would always seem weird outside of the mobile game because they let you create everything about them, from looks to name. Reincarnation was a good choice, thought it ending up being Xehanort idk. I guess it's kinda cool. It makes me think that Nomura just doesn't want to throw Xehanort away after ending his Saga.

Zetta slow

June 1, 2021 @ 05:26 pmOffline

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Questions:
So was Luxu the traitor?
Ventus, Marluxia and Larxene got yeeted into the future and that's why they're in the present time?
WHAT'S GOING ON WITH BRAIN?!

ShardofTruth

June 1, 2021 @ 05:28 pmOffline

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I get the the Player = Xehanort arguments but the time frame doesn't seem to fit at all. Have we entered "Unbirth theory" territory again?

LoneFox

June 1, 2021 @ 05:36 pmOffline

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Nathanhale

There are only 7 in the real world. Maleficent, cloaked dandelion, lauriam, ventus, elrena use 5. 2 get sent back into data and skuld and ephemer use it to go back to the real world and then to the future. This leaves one unused stuck in the data world but 0 in the real world.

At the beginning there were 7 pods in both machines. Some of the real world ones got replaced by the ones coming from the data world. I'm assuming that the replaced ones didn't cease to exist, but went to some kind of storage from where they can be recalled if needed.

Sorarocks93

June 1, 2021 @ 05:39 pmOffline

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Got it Memorized?

Questions:
So was Luxu the traitor?
Ventus, Marluxia and Larxene got yeeted into the future and that's why they're in the present time?
WHAT'S GOING ON WITH BRAIN?!

The traitor was more of an idea, the MoM wanted the Foretellers to have discord and doubt in their hearts, so it would be easier for the Darknesses to be attracted to it.

Yes, they are in the future, if they're all in the same time period that would make those scenes happen 10 years before KH1, just before BBS starts.

Brain arrived in the future, in Scala Ad Caelum, long after Ephemer had rebuilt it from the wreckage of Daybreak Town. His arrival was expected by people apparently. As to why Luxu looks like him, can't be sure of that yet. He probably took his body, then after he no longer needed it, he discarded it and sent him to the future.

HakaishinChampa

June 1, 2021 @ 05:47 pmOffline

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dumb theory I just thought about that probably has too many plotholes in it:

I was thinking, could Luxu's method of Body Hopping eject the Vessel's heart out of their body? Or did he just do that for Brain?

If that's the case, could Luxu's vessels all come back recompleted at some point?

They would need a medium and memories at the place they're recompleted.

Maybe Ienzo will be researching about Braig's past (after they all find out about Xigbar being Luxu) and finding an old item that belonged to him then suddenly the OG Braig pops into existence.

AdrianXXII

June 1, 2021 @ 05:53 pmOffline

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Tobi

The first thing which I noticed there was that their surroundings fitted their symbols or motiv as Nobodies if you want to call it like that. Lauriam = flowers; Elrena = thunderstorm.

Until some minutes ago I thought it was pure symbolism, but now where I think of it, maybe the sceneries were somehow a trigger for someone passing by remembering them (subconsiously or not) and triggering this way their reapeerrance. For Lauriam it might be explainable with his keyblade, but I can't come up for any connection between Elrena and thunder prior her time as Larxene, but at the same time we learned less about Elrena than Lauriam, so there might be a connection we are not aware of yet. Furthermore in the case of a subconscious memory coming up it could fit with something what someone else said (and others also already had refferenced), that their memory loss wasnt caused by the pods, but because of something else. This else would be in this case, that the memory was only weak and so the recreation of their bodies wasn't in a perfect way.

For some reason it never really sunk in that the reason the settings looked kind of fitting, even if the world choices seemed random, was because they were surrounded by their elements.
I kind of wonder when they were sent there, my gut feeling says they were living their lives on those worlds with memory loss while AVT visited the worlds and fell to darkness along with those worlds.

I assume the Dandelions that were sent to the BBS era, all suffer from memory loss, seeing them knowing too much of their past would be critical given the whole Xehanort plot is kind of key and shouldn't be derailed by memories of the Keyblade War.

Sign

June 1, 2021 @ 05:57 pmOffline

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HakaishinChampa

dumb theory I just thought about that probably has too many plotholes in it:

I was thinking, could Luxu's method of Body Hopping eject the Vessel's heart out of their body? Or did he just do that for Brain?

If that's the case, could Luxu's vessels all come back recompleted at some point?

They would need a medium and memories at the place they're recompleted.

Maybe Ienzo will be researching about Braig's past (after they all find out about Xigbar being Luxu) and finding an old item that belonged to him then suddenly the OG Braig pops into existence.

There is at least some precedent for someone hijacking a body and then ejecting the host's heart, as we saw in KH1 with Ansem SoD and Riku. But the thing is that the dominant heart will then reshape the body in their own image. We saw this with not only Ansem SoD but also Roxas, with how Sora's body took on Ven's appearance once Sora's own heart was removed from the equation.

If Luxu had indeed taken over Brain's body and ejected his heart in the process, the body shouldn't still resemble Brain, right?

There's also the matter of Brain's words in the final scene, which suggest he used the ark.

KeybladeLordSora

June 1, 2021 @ 06:28 pmOffline

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Zip

I think it’s a different f-word....

Fu– *ahem* Fiction...

That’s just going by how Ansem the Wise refers to it in Melody of Memory.

EDIT: JK. They use the term fiction earlier in the conversation, so that probably wouldn’t be bleeped out. It could be Unreality though.

Why would they bleep out Unreality when we already heard it in Melody of Memory?

It'd make sense for the censored word to be Fantasy in regards to Quadratum since they seem intent on evading a full concrete mention of the word to the point of bleeping it out.

Cumguardian69

June 1, 2021 @ 06:29 pmOffline

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Also why did Luxu say May Your Heart Be You're Guiding Key?

Wouldn't He have Said May MY Heart Be My Guiding Key?

Becoz that scene was kind of weird. Maybe Luxu was helping Brain after all, or maybe that was somrthing else??

DarkGrey Heroine

June 1, 2021 @ 06:36 pmOffline

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Zip

I think it’s a different f-word....

Fu– *ahem* Fiction...

That’s just going by how Ansem the Wise refers to it in Melody of Memory.

EDIT: JK. They use the term fiction earlier in the conversation, so that probably wouldn’t be bleeped out. It could be Unreality though.

Nah, you're close. The word is clearly Fanfiction at this point
They can't simply drop that one on us, reveals too much too soon

Noivern

June 1, 2021 @ 06:38 pmOffline

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I.. Wow. I watched the finale in japanese when it first came out, and just now watched the translated version to understand what actually happened; well, as much as I could gather, anyways.

I'll go back and read the entire thread before commenting further to see the discussion, but I'll post my impressions for now:

- Ephemer's destiny was.. really sad. It seems like he ended up alone, building the city on his own? Only waiting for his friend to show up in the future to continue their plans..
- I guess this also confirms that Eraqus descends from Brain, in the end? Not really sure how I feel about that. Also, Sigurd? More Nordic mythology? Amazing.
- So, Xehanort's mother is Skuld? Who the heck was that, really? I really want to understand why Xehanort got sent away to Destiny Island.. But I guess that also explains how he found his way back into Scala as well, he just followed his heart.
- I guess that also confirms that Vanitas is Darkness; one of them, anyways, taken shape. Going to assume that Xehanort is another one of them, and when the player reincarnated he brought that with them.

AdrianXXII

June 1, 2021 @ 06:43 pmOffline

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Sign

If Luxu had indeed taken over Brain's body and ejected his heart in the process, the body shouldn't still resemble Brain, right?

There's also the matter of Brain's words in the final scene, which suggest he used the ark.

That's a good point, this increases my suspicions of there being some Data hijinks going on here. There must have been a reason for them to bring up that there must be Data copies of them in Data Daybreak Town.

Sephiroth0812

June 1, 2021 @ 06:48 pmOffline

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Tobi

I can also imagine that this Darkness managed to posess Luxu, but he was to strong at this point and couldn't be overtaken, leading to the end, which you described. On top of it, it would explain the change of his personality, because although Luxu was at the start the stronger one between them, over time the Darkness got stronger/ Luxu became weaker.


While that would be a possibility with others I doubt it was the case with Luxu.
The Darkness he faced was one of the six lesser ones while already having one of the seven higher ones sealed within him according to the previous explanations of the MoM without any sign of possession.

If Luxu can handle one of the seven higher Darknesses why should he have problems with one of the lesser ones.

---
That being said, the whole separating the Darkness beings into "higher" and "lesser" ones reminds me of the hierarchy of the Burning Hells in the Diablo-franchise.
There they have seven Demon Lords called the "Great Evils" ruling Hell which are split into three "higher" Prime Evils and four "lesser" evils.

Chie

June 1, 2021 @ 07:37 pmOffline

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I don't think ※ was censoring anything. I think he was saying exactly what he said - a world of ※.

I'm not sure how to explain ※ accurately but it makes some sense to me.

Sign

June 1, 2021 @ 07:47 pmOffline

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Chie

I don't think ※ was censoring anything. I think he was saying exactly what he said - a world of ※.

I'm not sure how to explain ※ accurately but it makes some sense to me.

On a related note, I hate that this series keeps making me have to google things because there's no way to type them out.

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kvyra

June 1, 2021 @ 07:48 pmOffline

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Idreamaboutcats

Go claim the foreteller award. You deserve it.

Now I wanna claim that Quadratum is going be where the first keyblade war as was the battle for the creation of x blade. Hence why Yozora doesn't use a keyblade and has skeleton on his shoulder

AdrianXXII

June 1, 2021 @ 07:49 pmOffline

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Chie

I don't think ※ was censoring anything. I think he was saying exactly what he said - a world of ※.

I'm not sure how to explain ※ accurately but it makes some sense to me.

Had to look up the symbols meaning. A world of Reference? Not really sure how to interpret that

Cumguardian69

June 1, 2021 @ 07:51 pmOffline

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kvyra

Now I wanna claim that Quadratum is going be where the first keyblade war as was the battle for the creation of x blade. Hence why Yozora doesn't use a keyblade and has skeleton on his shoulder

Dont light and darkness not have any sway in quadratun like they arent conceptd

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kvyra

June 1, 2021 @ 07:57 pmOffline

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Cumguardian69

Dont light and darkness not have any sway in quadratun like they arent conceptd

Also want to point out that MoM in kh3 secret ending he makes a square shape to the moon then turning his figures into a heart shape.

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korr4k

June 1, 2021 @ 07:58 pmOffline

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Clue.Less

That's what I thought, too! But that would mean that Ephemer would live a veeeeeeery long time lol

EDIT 2: Clueless thoughts :
- Did Lauriam and Elrena wake in the Snow White and Aurora worlds right after Ven went there in BBS?
- The shadow that walks to Ven in the badlands doesn't look like Xehanort, does it?
- How does Luxu lose the box?
- Isn't it awesome that the final boss of the game are Ephemer and Skuld? That's some classic KH goodness. <3 Like fighting Xion and Riku.

True that was a gut feeling but most out of sentimental reasons. It is a lot more plausible that the old guy is Brain, Luxu left instructions to this "secret group" in Scala to pick up a child and bring him to Destiny Island because he has an important destiny to fulfill. Nobody probably even knew it was Player reincarnated

The shadows with Ven is definitely NOT old master Xehanort, and it is not just a hidden figure, it is actually smokey to me.. hence IMHO it is the darkness that was inside of him in the past. Ventus stated he wanted to do something to gave it a physical form so that they could kill it, clearly, he failed and that is the result. Now it is going back inside his body to later became Vanitas.. or it has to do with that random thing that was still inside Ventus at the end of KH3 when there should have been none

Imho Luxu knew that he was going to have to give himself to Darkness prior to BBS events, according to MoM's plan. It would be plausible that he hid the box before losing himself and forgot about it intentionally so that Darkness couldn't access it

Got it Memorized?

Questions:
So was Luxu the traitor?

That is a big question. He could be the traitor nominated many times during Back Story just because they needed someone to take the blame or..
Or he actually IS a traitor but to MoM, meaning down the line Luxu is gone, or will go, against MoM's plans for him BUT MoM already knows it and is ok with it, hence why he calls him traitor

Clue.Less

June 1, 2021 @ 08:04 pmOffline

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LoneFox

Or maybe he died while looking for the Player, and had the same choice as Player did. Remember that Eraqus was also having strange dreams about the past. Then compare the relationship between Ephemer and Player to that of Eraqus and Xehanort. See where this is going...?

Personally, I believe the whole joining with another heart thing is just a fourth wall breaking way to explain why we are playing as Xehanort in Dark Road. But if there is more to it than that, then what I'm suggesting is a real possibility.

Yes, I do see where this is going and I don't like it XD I really hope it's just a fourth wall break, but...
Sign

Ephemer and Skuld were surprisingly easy tbh. The Cy-Bugs were worse.

Poor Ephemer and Skuld :(
Tobi

The first thing which I noticed there was that their surroundings fitted their symbols or motiv as Nobodies if you want to call it like that. Lauriam = flowers; Elrena = thunderstorm.

Until some minutes ago I thought it was pure symbolism, but now where I think of it, maybe the sceneries were somehow a trigger for someone passing by remembering them (subconsiously or not) and triggering this way their reapeerrance. For Lauriam it might be explainable with his keyblade, but I can't come up for any connection between Elrena and thunder prior her time as Larxene, but at the same time we learned less about Elrena than Lauriam, so there might be a connection we are not aware of yet. Furthermore in the case of a subconscious memory coming up it could fit with something what someone else said (and others also already had refferenced), that their memory loss wasnt caused by the pods, but because of something else. This else would be in this case, that the memory was only weak and so the recreation of their bodies wasn't in a perfect way.

I love this idea of triggers. What if the thunderstorm triggers memories of the sounds of Daybreak Town collapsing?
And that because of a weak memory bodies would be recreated in an imperfect way, that's an intriguing theory!

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korr4k

June 1, 2021 @ 08:05 pmOffline

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Sign

There's also the matter of Brain's words in the final scene, which suggest he used the ark.

There was NO arc for Brain to use

Sorarocks93

Brain arrived in the future, in Scala Ad Caelum, long after Ephemer had rebuilt it from the wreckage of Daybreak Town. His arrival was expected by people apparently. As to why Luxu looks like him, can't be sure of that yet. He probably took his body, then after he no longer needed it, he discarded it and sent him to the future.

Remember that the body resembles the heart controlling it. Supposing Luxu's heart got in sleep mode while Luxu did his things, then when he freed it, it went back to Brain young appereance. I don't think he sent the body to the future, he simply dropped it in scala at a certain time and told Strelitzia to pick him up

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Tobi

June 1, 2021 @ 08:40 pmOffline

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Clue.Less

I love this idea of triggers. What if the thunderstorm triggers memories of the sounds of Daybreak Town collapsing?
And that because of a weak memory bodies would be recreated in an imperfect way, that's an intriguing theory!

And the more I think about it, the more it would explain what changed between Larxenes and Marluxias destruction in CoM and 3. It is only an idea at this point, but the biggest difference might be that in some kind of form Ephemer was present in the KH3 final. Ven and players reincarnation/Xehanort had their reasons for not remembering Lauriam and Elrena, because they could remember them at best only subconsciously. But Ephemers memories should have been intact and complete. His appearance was only before the big clash, but we know his spirit or whatever that was, was somewhere there in this world and sentinent. Even in the case he vanished from that world again and didnt continued to wander it as some kind of ghost, his short presence might have been enough for the lost memories to comee to that world, flowing back in their owners.

Although this would also mean, that the one remembering someone has to be in the same world as the one, who is to be remembered... maybe?

Sign

June 1, 2021 @ 08:42 pmOffline

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korr4k

There was NO arc for Brain to use

Right, forgot about that. In any case, his words suggest he found a way to escape that led him to assume he'd have the same outcome as Lauriam and the others.

Noivern

June 1, 2021 @ 08:54 pmOffline

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Okay, so I finished reading the entire thread and now have a better grasp on the events, so with that in mind, there's some things that I feel like make sense now:

- Xehanort IS the player. It's not a case of having two hearts in one nor anything like that, it's simply "our" heart reincarnating from the cycle of Kingdom Hearts. That brings two things to consider:
1. Maybe the reason he is so obsessed with KH is especifically because he unlocks fragments of memories of his past life.
2. Xehanort was born with Darkness already present inside him, as the player seemed to be holding it in the final scene; they simply acted as being possessed, when in fact they managed to remain in control.

- Dark Inferno IS related to Ephemer, in the end; I think it's the materialization of his regrets regarding the playable character, possibly forever seeking them. Which could explain why it was present in the Graveyard; The place we "died" once before going into the data world, as well as where Xehanort used as his base. I'm not sure how canon the whole encounter is, but I'd guess it works as a visual representation of that?

- Scala seems to have quite the technology going on, seeming with how Sigurd seems to have been talking through a headphone of some sorts. Might be relevant for future DATA shenanigans.
- The graveyard we see in Dark Road might not have been for the inhabitants of the world in a timeskip end of the world scenario like how we were theorizing before, but instead is a memoir of the Dandelions made by Ephemer. And now we know why Xehanort was there; he may have remembered too much.

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ZeVaine

June 1, 2021 @ 08:56 pmOffline

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Sign

On a related note, I hate that this series keeps making me have to google things because there's no way to type them out.

Our ※ are gone!
What?
All our ※ , are gone?
Huh? You can't say ※ ? Why not?

Sign

June 1, 2021 @ 09:16 pmOffline

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Noivern

- Xehanort IS the player. It's not a case of having two hearts in one nor anything like that, it's simply "our" heart reincarnating from the cycle of Kingdom Hearts.

Chirithy says Player will join with a brand new heart. This seems like an intentional throwback to BBS, indicating that instead of Player continuing in life as a different person, their connection to Xehanort reflects Ven's connection to Sora. Both are characters in their final moments latching on to a new heart (although there is a massive time gap between Player and Xehanort that doesn't make sense, but so do a lot of other things in this finale lol).




Voice: I'm a brand new heart.

Ven: But this is-- Why are you in my heart?

Voice: The light brought me. I saw it shining in the distance...and followed it here.

Ven: Yeah. That was my light. But my heart is fractured. And now...the little I have left is slipping away.

Voice: Then you should join your heart with mine.

Noivern

June 1, 2021 @ 09:25 pmOffline

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Sign

Chirithy says Player will join with a brand new heart. This seems like an intentional throwback to BBS, indicating that instead of being one-in-the-same, Player's connection to Xehanort reflects Ven's connection to Sora:

While I could definitely see that being the case, I think this is quite the huge assumption. The way Chirithy spoke in that scene felt like they were simply stating what would happen to us in that scenario (in the same sense that if you loose your heart = you become a Heartless), which simply makes no sense:

- For that to be the case, what happened with Ven's heart has to happen naturally as well, otherwise hearts of deceased people are joining with brand new existing hearts all the time (which could kinda explain Eraqus memories, I guess?)
- The way the scene unfolds as the fate of the characters showing baby Xehanort to me implies that is already Player. There was also no visual hint that the connection happened later on at Destiny Islands in any shape or form, which clearly happened with Ventus.

Like, I think the throwback to BBS was definitely intentional from the narrative, but I don't think it's the same case as what happened to Ventus heart. But who knows, Dark Road could confirm that.

KeybladeLordSora

June 1, 2021 @ 09:27 pmOffline

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That moment when Player's memories are what causes Xehanort to recreate the Ark in Radiant Garden

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Xagzan

June 1, 2021 @ 09:45 pmOffline

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Nomura, dammit, there was so much here I've already forgotten some of the questions that arose while I was watching. I've also completely forgotten after all this time why Daybreak Town was even destroyed here, can someone explain? And why, when Ephemer and Skuld returned to the real world DB, was everything glitching like they were still in a computer? Was Ephemer the predecessor of Eraqus, or was Brain?

I'm guessing we're not supposed to know when Brain's last scene occurs in relation to the previous scene with the Luxu reveal, or how? Presumably much later, since Brain was apparently Luxu's first body swap.

Player (us) joined Xehanort's heart but since we aren't really a character it doesn't make much difference. Guessing we're not supposed to know who was the robed figure who took him, or even the woman, but knowing KH we probably have to wait another 10 years to find out.

I'm not even gonna ask wtf ※ is cause I see literally nobody can explain that lol.

Ultimately, aside from the broad strokes of the Master wanting the primary 13 darknesses to incarnate in him and his successors (mirrored in Xehanort's plan sort of) so they can be beaten, the dandelions taking arks to wind up in the present time, and the dream eaters being Chirithies protecting their wielder's hearts, I didn't follow a dang thing specifically in this finale.

Moonlight Aqua

June 1, 2021 @ 09:49 pmOffline

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I'm just gonna say it... Brain as Luxu looks a lot like Zexion.

Lord Sora

June 1, 2021 @ 09:49 pmOffline

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Could've sworn Nomura originally also wanted to do the whole heart reincarnation shenanigan with Sora and Ventus in BBS, but decided to ditch the idea because of Western belief or something. No idea where exactly it was mentioned... But it seems like he picked up on it again though.

Noivern

June 1, 2021 @ 09:52 pmOffline

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Oh yeah, just want to add something else that popped up in my head in another thread:

While the Xehanort = No Name connection is pretty spot on as a callback to our playable character having no defined name, gender, age or appearance, it also works amazingly well for the Keyblade: as a tool for the Master's plan with no clear owner in mind, passing from user to user while keeping a record of the future: No Name, the Keyblade with no identity and no user.

I wouldn't be surprised if whenever we get a proper reveal of who the MoM is behind that coat, we also get another Keyblade for him.

Violet Pluto

June 1, 2021 @ 10:19 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

So, the Player character is a traitor siding with the Darknesses or do we have another case of possession/hijacking at hand?

It's always somewhat itchy when there's so much talking and you don't understand a word, lol.

Also, the running gag of Ven simply sleeping through everything keeps running and running. At this rate he won't even need that much amnesia anymore but I bet he'll have it anyways because that fight between him and that one "Darkness" likely either damaged or at least affected his heart.

Not only was Xehanort born by sleep, but Ven as we know him was also born by sleep... NOMURAAAAA!

Sign

June 1, 2021 @ 10:33 pmOffline

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Lord Sora

Could've sworn Nomura originally also wanted to do the whole heart reincarnation shenanigan with Sora and Ventus in BBS, but decided to ditch the idea because of Western belief or something. No idea where exactly it was mentioned... But it seems like he picked up on it again though.

Something along those lines. Ven was supposed to make contact with Sora's heart before Sora had actually been born, but some people in the west don't believe the heart exists until after birth so they had to make adjustments.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.khinsider.com/news/Birth-by-Sleep-Plot-Mysteries-Interview-1364[/URL]

Luminary

June 1, 2021 @ 10:58 pmOffline

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So is Secret Report 12 just retconned or does it line up somehow?

Amid the chaos, I bequeathed my Keyblade to one of the Union leaders, just as the Master instructed. I watched as the Five were sent to another worldline—at no small cost—ensuring the line of Keyblade wielders will live on. And now, Keybladeless, I must depart this land to fulfill my final task. This means casting my own body aside and sojourning my heart in vessel after vessel—as many as it takes.

Luxu specifically says he doesn’t have a Keyblade when he starts body hopping. But the figure who appears to be Luxu-Brain has his Keyblade.

Noivern

June 1, 2021 @ 11:18 pmOffline

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Zip

So is Secret Report 12 just retconned or does it line up somehow?

Amid the chaos, I bequeathed my Keyblade to one of the Union leaders, just as the Master instructed. I watched as the Five were sent to another worldline—at no small cost—ensuring the line of Keyblade wielders will live on. And now, Keybladeless, I must depart this land to fulfill my final task. This means casting my own body aside and sojourning my heart in vessel after vessel—as many as it takes.

Luxu specifically says he doesn’t have a Keyblade when he starts body hopping. But the figure who appears to be Luxu-Brain has his Keyblade.


It seems like no one agrees on when the taking-the-hood-off scene actually happens with some people believing it's after the final scene of original X before the Dandelions went into the DATA world, while others seem to think it's after his talk with Brain; so it's still in the air, really.

Violet Pluto

June 1, 2021 @ 11:21 pmOffline

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korr4k

or it has to do with that random thing that was still inside Ventus at the end of KH3 when there should have been none


That's because at the end of BBS Ventus recombined with Vanitas. Also the Vanitas in KH3 was time travelling from before the conclusion of BBS.
KeybladeLordSora

That moment when Player's memories are what causes Xehanort to recreate the Ark in Radiant Garden

That moment where Player choosing to be reincarnated is what causes the entirety of the series.

Also [USER=89972]@Sign[/USER] it could always be that the person reincarnated doesn't immediately reincarnate. For all we know there's a backlog of hearts, seeing as death rates and birth rates aren't an equal. I do however think that Nomura's intention is that Player is Xehanort's past life, backlog or no.

Katsagu

June 1, 2021 @ 11:40 pmOffline

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Well that's just incredible

Cumguardian69

June 1, 2021 @ 11:58 pmOffline

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Katsagu



Well that's just incredible

Ben Diskin and HMK are both absolute legends.

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ZeVaine

June 2, 2021 @ 12:12 amOffline

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Violet Pluto

That's because at the end of BBS Ventus recombined with Vanitas. Also the Vanitas in KH3 was time travelling from before the conclusion of BBS.

That moment where Player choosing to be reincarnated is what causes the entirety of the series.

Also [USER=89972]@Sign[/USER] it could always be that the person reincarnated doesn't immediately reincarnate. For all we know there's a backlog of hearts, seeing as death rates and birth rates aren't an equal. I do however think that Nomura's intention is that Player is Xehanort's past life, backlog or no.

It has to be the case that there's no guarantee WHEN you get reincarnated, and that's the rub of choosing to be reincarnated, OR there's some crazy ass time-traveling non-sense that allows second scala to exist at the same time everything in this final cutscene is happening... and that would just be a bit too much for me to accept honestly.

Or Xehanort would have to have been time warped to second scala first for some reason, and then hidden on Destiny Islands.

Noivern

June 2, 2021 @ 12:47 amOffline

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Violet Pluto

That's because at the end of BBS Ventus recombined with Vanitas. Also the Vanitas in KH3 was time travelling from before the conclusion of BBS.

That moment where Player choosing to be reincarnated is what causes the entirety of the series.

Also [USER=89972]@Sign[/USER] it could always be that the person reincarnated doesn't immediately reincarnate. For all we know there's a backlog of hearts, seeing as death rates and birth rates aren't an equal. I do however think that Nomura's intention is that Player is Xehanort's past life, backlog or no.

Exactly! That's the same conclusion I had so whenever I see people talking about what was the Darkness inside Ventus' heart as if it was a separate being from Vanitas it always confused me. Vanitas was time traveling as much as everyone else, when we defeat him in the graveyard he just goes back in time to before he and Ven merged back together. But now we definitely have a confirmation that one of the Darknesses merged with Ven's own darkness to become Van.
ZeVaine

It has to be the case that there's no guarantee WHEN you get reincarnated, and that's the rub of choosing to be reincarnated, OR there's some crazy ass time-traveling non-sense that allows second scala to exist at the same time everything in this final cutscene is happening... and that would just be a bit too much for me to accept honestly.

Or Xehanort would have to have been time warped to second scala first for some reason, and then hidden on Destiny Islands.


On that note, player having a choice on what was going to happen with them was definitely an unusual case, specially if we look at things from a wider perspective; Charithy talked about it in a serene tone, but what actually happened in that moment was.. very dark, all things considered. lol

KeybladeLordSora

June 2, 2021 @ 01:06 amOffline

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Why do people think Xehanort's mom is Skuld

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Xagzan

June 2, 2021 @ 01:13 amOffline

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I'm also realizing I still don't know what was up with the Dark Chirithy way back in the beginning. And people were telling me Ava was the answer to the traitor question a long time ago, but apparently in was Luxu after all?

Cumguardian69

June 2, 2021 @ 01:13 amOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Why do people think Xehanort's mom is Skuld

Because the beautiful lady has hairstyle and color in common with Skuld so they must be the same character.

Imagine giving birth to your long lost friend.

Chaser

June 2, 2021 @ 01:19 amOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Why do people think Xehanort's mom is Skuld

Everything about her except the eyes looks like Skuld. Maybe we’ll get the answer in two months ??‍♀️

Chie

June 2, 2021 @ 01:29 amOffline

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Xagzan

And people were telling me Ava was the answer to the traitor question a long time ago, but apparently in was Luxu after all?

Anyone who was trying to answer the traitor question did not understand Back Cover in the first place, so theories like that were always misguided (and a good reason to come to your own conclusions). And some people still are even now, after MoM explicitly confirmed the obvious (that the events of Back Cover were to breed distrust in the Leaders), which astounds me.

Zettaflare

June 2, 2021 @ 01:50 amOffline

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Is it possible that Xehanort's possible mother is a descendant of Skuld? That would explain the different eye color

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ZeVaine

June 2, 2021 @ 01:52 amOffline

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Zettaflare

Is it possible that Xehanort's possible mother is a descendant of Skuld? That would explain the different eye color

The question is how she would get there in the past, if she's been 15 in the current timeline, assuming she's Subject X lol

Zettaflare

June 2, 2021 @ 01:56 amOffline

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ZeVaine

The question is how she would get there in the past, if she's been 15 in the current timeline, assuming she's Subject X lol

Who knows, maybe we were wrong about her being Subject X.

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Genocide

June 2, 2021 @ 02:18 amOffline

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Absent

Wow we really covered all the bases. Teenort, adultnort, geezenort and now babynort.


[spoiler]It really sheds new light on the meme that everyone is Ansem. We really are. I always wanted to be him, ever since KH1. Designed my *Unchained Key* (who in my canon, died in the Keyblade War) character after him. I lost my shit when I saw that.[/spoiler]

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Xagzan

June 2, 2021 @ 02:47 amOffline

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Chie

Anyone who was trying to answer the traitor question did not understand Back Cover in the first place, so theories like that were always misguided (and a good reason to come to your own conclusions). And some people still are even now, after MoM explicitly confirmed the obvious (that the events of Back Cover were to breed distrust in the Leaders), which astounds me.

Hard to come up with my own conclusions when I'm not sure what's happening at any given moment lol

Besides, it's not like Luxu being the traitor means anything more than if it were Ava. Traitor to what exactly? From all we've seen, including in KH3, he seems to be carrying out the role he was given as the Master wanted.

Cumguardian69

June 2, 2021 @ 02:47 amOffline

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Mommynort is not Skuld. She can't be. Skuld probably would have been a Keyblade Master and detected something off with her Baby, namely that his heart was fused with a friend's. Idk how childbirth works in KH but headcanon says a different style of gregnancy would probably have happened.

Luminary

June 2, 2021 @ 03:03 amOffline

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Assuming the animators didn’t mess up the eye color of Xehanort’s mother, I doubt and hope that’s not Skuld. I think if Skuld was Xehanort’s mother, they should have shown her waking up in future Scala in the montage of what happened to all of them. I don’t see why Skuld’s fate would be something left at all ambiguous compared to the others unless she’s Subject X. At the least, if this was meant to be her, they could have kept her star earrings or some kind of star motif to make it clear it’s the same character.

It also seems Brain arrived in the same time period that the scene with Xehanort’s mother took place in based on the background design and Sigurd said Brain was the only one of the group to arrive in that era. Of course, there’s no guarantee it is the same era.

I’ll be disappointed if one of the few original female characters with a face that isn’t Kairi’s gets reduced to Mommynort.

Xblade13

June 2, 2021 @ 03:07 amOffline

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Genocide

[spoiler]It really sheds new light on the meme that everyone is Ansem. We really are. I always wanted to be him, ever since KH1. Designed my *Unchained Key* (who in my canon, died in the Keyblade War) character after him. I lost my shit when I saw that.[/spoiler]

Oh god....

What if the whole time, Player's canon name was Ansem, and THAT is why Xehanort took that name after the heart experiment stuff. Especially since he had no reason to say "I am not Xehanort, I am Ansem" to Braig as he was stabbing him, alone with him.

Apprentice Xehanort's "amnesia" was Player coming to the surface momentarily.

Chie

June 2, 2021 @ 03:15 amOffline

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Watching the Xehanort scene again it is strange that as a baby Scala had the older look, but as a teen it was already completely different and mostly empty. Did it change that much in that short a time, or was he yet another person sent forward in time?

Sign

June 2, 2021 @ 03:21 amOffline

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I'm willing to assume it's not Skuld, if only because we know Nomura has a thing for long black-haired women with bangs. He's created how many of them in the past few years?

Zettaflare

June 2, 2021 @ 03:24 amOffline

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Chie

Watching the Xehanort scene again it is strange that as a baby Scala had the older look, but as a teen it was already completely different and mostly empty. Did it change that much in that short a time, or was he yet another person sent forward in time?

Some people have theorized that the Victorian looking Scala could be a different part of the same world rather than a past version.

Considering all of the islands shown in the world it's possible that a few of them could look different compared to the main town

Sign

June 2, 2021 @ 03:25 amOffline

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Zettaflare

Some people have theorized that the Victorian looking Scala could be a different part of the same world rather than a past version.

Consideringg all of the islands shown in the world it's possible that a few of them could look different compared to the main town

Would be neat if each island was based on a different location.

Chie

June 2, 2021 @ 03:32 amOffline

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In DR, all the other islands are abandoned and nobody seems to know why. Even if some of the islands looked different if you went really far out (which is strange, because I feel that the uniformity of its aesthetic, like multiple copies of an idea emanating out from a center point, is a big part of its whole 'deal'), something big still happened in those 15 years.

(Of course different worlds can move at different rates of time, so it could also be that.)

Noivern

June 2, 2021 @ 03:40 amOffline

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While the scene with babynort has the same general aesthetic as the Scala that Brain and Sigurd show up in later on, if it is indeed the same time period then this brings some very interesting developments to the table:

- Eraqus is not a descendant of Brain unlike what a lot of people believed, but he could still be related to Ephemer and the whole similar appearance was just meant to throw us off.
- Brain is still alive during the Dark Road time, and should be in his late twenties/early thirties.

Luminary

June 2, 2021 @ 03:51 amOffline

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Maybe a stretch, but I wonder if Nightmare Chirithy’s mention of “another dream” and Chirithy asking, “Another?” in this scene could have been in reference to Xehanort’s anagram...

Eonstar890

June 2, 2021 @ 04:35 amOffline

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Zip

Assuming the animators didn’t mess up the eye color of Xehanort’s mother, I doubt and hope that’s not Skuld. I think if Skuld was Xehanort’s mother, they should have shown her waking up in future Scala in the montage of what happened to all of them. I don’t see why Skuld’s fate would be something left at all ambiguous compared to the others unless she’s Subject X. At the least, if this was meant to be her, they could have kept her star earrings or some kind of star motif to make it clear it’s the same character.

It also seems Brain arrived in the same time period that the scene with Xehanort’s mother took place in based on the background design and Sigurd said Brain was the only one of the group to arrive in that era. Of course, there’s no guarantee it is the same era.

I’ll be disappointed if one of the few original female characters with a face that isn’t Kairi’s gets reduced to Mommynort.

Ya know it is interesting that they chose that appearance for his supposed mother. I mean she’s share almost zero characteristics with Xehanort...
And also why is she giving him away to some hooded figure to be taken to destiny islands????
I almost get the sense that something might have been wrong with Xehanort at birth and he was taken to the islands to Rest In Peace (not unlike what Xehanort did for Ventus).
I find the long black hair to be too much of a coincidence for it to be unintentional, but considering the location and possible timeline, the mother might actually be a descendant of Brain meaning that Xehanort is Brains true descendant. (How’s that for a plot twist)

Form Oblivion

June 2, 2021 @ 04:42 amOffline

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Wow, that update was..........I don't know what to say!

Clue.Less

June 2, 2021 @ 05:13 amOffline

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Eonstar890

Ya know it is interesting that they chose that appearance for his supposed mother. I mean she’s share almost zero characteristics with Xehanort...
And also why is she giving him away to some hooded figure to be taken to destiny islands????
I almost get the sense that something might have been wrong with Xehanort at birth and he was taken to the islands to Rest In Peace (not unlike what Xehanort did for Ventus).
I find the long black hair to be too much of a coincidence for it to be unintentional, but considering the location and possible timeline, the mother might actually be a descendant of Brain meaning that Xehanort is Brains true descendant. (How’s that for a plot twist)

I thought that too, that the wavy black hair and eye color might mean this woman is a descendant of Brain's.

AdrianXXII

June 2, 2021 @ 06:00 amOffline

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Clue.Less

I thought that too, that the wavy black hair and eye color might mean this woman is a descendant of Brain's.

It also looks like they were both on the same island/town or at least the locations designs seem to match up better than the island on which Eraqus and Xehanort studied and lived later on.

Also I'm kind of curious am I the only one that thought the hooded figure might be Ava. I'm colorblind, but something about the figure reminded me of her.

Sephiroth0812

June 2, 2021 @ 06:13 amOffline

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Small interjection here: Has anyone thought about the possibility that this woman isn't actually Xehanort's biological mother but a caretaker/guardian?

We have no context or further information to this particular scene, also in regards to Brain as while it is indeed the same city it can't be ascertained that it is the exact same time where Brain appears in it.

Zettaflare

June 2, 2021 @ 06:24 amOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Small interjection here: Has anyone thought about the possibility that this woman isn't actually Xehanort's biological mother but a caretaker/guardian?

While it's possible that the woman could just be a guardian I'm not ready to dismiss the possibility of her being his actual mother just yet. Blood relations have become a thing outside of Kairi and her grandmother

AdrianXXII

June 2, 2021 @ 06:26 amOffline

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I mean right now nothing is certain, but the easiest assumption is that she's his mom. Also calling her Xehanort's mom is easier than "Unknown woman who hands Xehanort over to a hooded figure". I'm not too attached to her being his actual mom or care taker, for all we know she kidnapped him for the hooded figure and just felt guilty for doing that.

Sephiroth0812

June 2, 2021 @ 07:24 amOffline

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Zettaflare

While it's possible that the woman could just be a guardian I'm not ready to dismiss the possibly of her being his actual mother just yet. Blood relations have become a thing outside of Kairi and her grandmother

It's not about definitely dismissing any possibility.

It's just a heads up to not jump to definite conclusions so quickly.
From what I've read across several media many people are quick to treat issues still unverified already as if they're canon text-based facts which may just serve to drum up overblown expectations yet again.

It is the same with this woman being Skuld just because she has black hair in the roughly same style or the connection/relationship between Player and Xehanort treated as one thing while it can mean actually different things.

I dunno if that is a side effect of the quickness and impatience of Social Media, but on the other hand I do get deja-vu of the days where some theories went around which insisted that Roxas and Ventus have to be somehow the same person/character just because they share physical appearance.

Alpha Baymax

June 2, 2021 @ 07:44 amOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Small interjection here: Has anyone thought about the possibility that this woman isn't actually Xehanort's biological mother but a caretaker/guardian?

We have no context or further information to this particular scene, also in regards to Brain as while it is indeed the same city it can't be ascertained that it is the exact same time where Brain appears in it.

Yeah, I also had the same thought.
Alpha Baymax

We don't even know if that's her biological mother or just a maternal guardian. We could very well have a Final Fantasy VIII homage where the kids come from an orphanage.

NoWay

June 2, 2021 @ 09:13 amOffline

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After watching the Finale again, there are still some plot points which I do not understand.

I still don’t get the concept of the Arc. Lauriam, Elrena, Ven and Brain us the Arc in Data Daybreak Town to escape. But where did they end up after using the Arc the first time?

after that Ven, Elrena and Lauriam use the Arc a second time and end up in KG, Enchanted Dominion and Dwarf Woodlands. Are these the “real” worlds from our common KH timeline? (Possibly a couple of years before BBS)

Ephemer and Skuld also used the Arc two times. The first time after fighting against Player and the second time in the realm, in which Brain, lauriam and the others where before. Did they follow the same “route” of worldhopping like the others?
I still don’t get why they need to use the Arc two times.

LoneFox

June 2, 2021 @ 09:48 amOffline

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NoWay

I still don’t get the concept of the Arc. Lauriam, Elrena, Ven and Brain us the Arc in Data Daybreak Town to escape. But where did they end up after using the Arc the first time?

First time is from data version of Daybreak Town to the real one, the second is from there into the future. Two times are necessary, because time travel from the data world is not possible.
NoWay

after that Ven, Elrena and Lauriam use the Arc a second time and end up in KG, Enchanted Dominion and Dwarf Woodlands. Are these the “real” worlds from our common KH timeline? (Possibly a couple of years before BBS)

Yes. Ven landed a most a few weeks before creation of Vanitas (which is the same time as Sora's birth). We don't know the exact time where the other two ended up.
NoWay

Ephemer and Skuld also used the Arc two times. The first time after fighting against Player and the second time in the realm, in which Brain, lauriam and the others where before. Did they follow the same “route” of worldhopping like the others?
I still don’t get why they need to use the Arc two times.

Skuld most likely followed the same route as the others, and presumably landed in Radiant Garden some time after end of BBS (almost 5 years after Ven's landing), because that's where Subject X appeared. Ephemer did not launch his pod into the future, but instead used it as a literal lifeboat to survive Daybreak Town's destruction.

NoWay

June 2, 2021 @ 10:22 amOffline

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LoneFox

First time is from data version of Daybreak Town to the real one, the second is from there into the future. Two times are necessary, because time travel from the data world is not possible.

Yes. Ven landed a most a few weeks before creation of Vanitas (which is the same time as Sora's birth). We don't know the exact time where the other two ended up.

Skuld most likely followed the same route as the others, and presumably landed in Radiant Garden some time after end of BBS (almost 5 years after Ven's landing), because that's where Subject X appeared. Ephemer did not launch his pod into the future, but instead used it as a literal lifeboat to survive Daybreak Town's destruction.

Thank you very much!! I didn’t even notice that Ephemer didn’t travel through time/space the second time.
Now the whole concept of the Arc is more understandable for me.
I’m really excited to see what’s going to happen in future installments.

AegisXIII

June 2, 2021 @ 10:31 amOffline

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For me, what I am more interested about is how they are going to fuse this story with the next phase in a coherent way. This sounds like a crazy challenge since probably 1% of the KH console user base will know about this finale.

Clue.Less

June 2, 2021 @ 12:06 pmOffline

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[USER=247014]@AegisXIII[/USER] Do we really know anything significant after this finale though? lol

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korr4k

June 2, 2021 @ 12:06 pmOffline

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I fair question: how common is the technology used by the "new" character in the Kh saga? To me, it felt kind of out of place.

gulava

June 2, 2021 @ 01:55 pmOffline

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The ending is melancholic, yet, beautiful. Although I do admit I was taken aback by the "Player And Xehanort" reveal. However, it started to make sense after I had given it some thought. And truth to be told, I have always wondered how they are planning to incorporate player into the canon lore in the upcoming titles when they are supposedly a self insert character at best. I can see them remaking khux as a movie and making player a canon character with a name and appearance of their own ([S]and upsetting the entire khux fanbase lol[/S]).

The only thing i'm iffy about the fact we know next nothing about what happened to ava.
.

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Xagzan

June 2, 2021 @ 02:28 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Small interjection here: Has anyone thought about the possibility that this woman isn't actually Xehanort's biological mother but a caretaker/guardian?

We have no context or further information to this particular scene, also in regards to Brain as while it is indeed the same city it can't be ascertained that it is the exact same time where Brain appears in it.


I mean yeah, actually that was first thought. Probably because my subconscious thought how we never see parents in KH.

AegisXIII

For me, what I am more interested about is how they are going to fuse this story with the next phase in a coherent way.

I wouldn't get my hopes up :p

gulava

The only thing i'm iffy about the fact we know next nothing about what happened to ava.

Or how Lauriam and Elrena ultimately develop their new personalities.

U.N. Owen

June 2, 2021 @ 02:34 pmOffline

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I hesitate to call Skuld Xehanort's mother because her hair cut, the hime cut, is pretty common in anime and manga. After all, it's not like Hinata Hyuga (Naruto), Enma Ai (Hell Girl), Konoka Konoe (Negima), and Aisa Himegami (A Certain Magic Index) sport the same cut. Those were just the ones I can name off the top of my head.

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kristi-swat

June 2, 2021 @ 03:44 pmOffline

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AegisXIII

For me, what I am more interested about is how they are going to fuse this story with the next phase in a coherent way. This sounds like a crazy challenge since probably 1% of the KH console user base will know about this finale.

That’s what I said to a friend yesterday. I feel like there are too many plot points, scattered in too many time periods to wrap them up decently and coherently in future games :/

gulava

June 2, 2021 @ 03:55 pmOffline

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Xagzan

Or how Lauriam and Elrena ultimately develop their new personalities

Angst

joking aside, I can see Nomura pulling "oops Larxene and Marluxia reverted to being teenagers, thereby their old personalities are back" to skirt around the disparity between their teenage and adult selves.

kirabook

June 2, 2021 @ 04:07 pmOffline

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To be honest, Marluxia doesn't feel like he's changed too much. He was just more snobby as a nobody for sure. But he seems like a cool and collected guy with a bit of sass (like how he was teasing his sister).

Larxene is the one that had a major attitude adjustment. I think they're going to keep her new personality, but maybe she'll be a little softer. Her snarky goodbye to Sora was actually... I wouldn't say nice, but she seemed genuine in a way. I guess the classic way to describe it would be tsundere. Hard outer shell, but clearly under it all she kinda cares or doesn't actually believe the mean things she's said. If that makes sense.

I'm also hoping Larxene and Marluxia avoid Namine. Like they actually feel bad about it and don't want to open old wounds. Lol. (after an apology maybe. ESPECIALLY from Marluxia. Namine and Strelitzia have so many similarities, surely he'll feel awful.)

gulava

June 2, 2021 @ 04:22 pmOffline

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kirabook

I'm also hoping Larxene and Marluxia avoid Namine. Like they actually feel bad about it and don't want to open old wounds. Lol. (after an apology maybe. ESPECIALLY from Marluxia. Namine and Strelitzia have so many similarities, surely he'll feel awful.)


Both of them need to apologize to her lol.
to be honest, I'm actually looking forward to how their interactions with her will unfold post-kh3.

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Xagzan

June 2, 2021 @ 04:23 pmOffline

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gulava

Angst

joking aside, I can see Nomura pulling "oops Larxene and Marluxia reverted to being teenagers, thereby their old personalities are back" to skirt around the disparity between their teenage and adult selves.


I mean their new personalities in CoM, not post-KH3. How Marluxia went from being a nice big bro to a cold and callous manipulator. And how Larxene went from being fairly blah to [S]entertaining[/S] sadistic.

kirabook

I'm also hoping Larxene and Marluxia avoid Namine. Like they actually feel bad about it and don't want to open old wounds. Lol. (after an apology maybe. ESPECIALLY from Marluxia. Namine and Strelitzia have so many similarities, surely he'll feel awful.)


Avoiding her would just let them off the hook, the way I see it. If Namine were ok with it, they have a looooot of right to do by her. Just like Isa has a bunch more to do for Xion than just buying her ice cream.

Noivern

June 2, 2021 @ 04:46 pmOffline

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AegisXIII

For me, what I am more interested about is how they are going to fuse this story with the next phase in a coherent way. This sounds like a crazy challenge since probably 1% of the KH console user base will know about this finale.


But this barely changed the status quo of the console games, if we actually think about it. UX was pretty self-contained with it's story and there's not many consequences to the story moving further, just context added to things that already happened:

- We now know the somebodies of Marluxia and Larxene, as well as why Marluxia was so obsessed with having a Keyblade, and can even try to stretch and justify the "stand" he uses in his second phase as well as looking like Stretlitzia.
- We know how Scala came to be.
- We know how Ven ended up in the Keyblade Graveyard, why he has memory loss, the origin of Vanitas and what was the Darkness in his heart in Re:Mind as well as why Charithy says it's better if he doesn't remember them in the final world.
- A bit more context on the Dream Eaters and why they haven't returned as an enemy (which may be how the whole surfing-on-keyblades happened in kh3? If it's a reference to Sora coming back to say goodbye to his Dream Eaters, who knows?)
- We know what the Ark/Lifeboats are.
- We know exactly when and how Maleficent came back in KH2, which used to be a plothole for the longest time. And why she is after the box.

The Foretellers, the Black Box, No Name and the Master of Masters are all in Back Cover and while I don't think that movie works as a replacement for UX, it still shows just enough to understand the origin for those characters, considering we're most likely only finding out abot how they even returned in the first place (or where they had been all this time) in a new console game.

Dark Road is another story entirely, though. That one will probably have a bigger impact with Luxu's role after he started bodyhoping, the line of rulers for Scala as well as what happened to that world (and what connection it has to Land of Departure, if any), what Xehanort talked about with the Master of Masters and what happened to that piece of Darkness, what happened to the population of Keyblade wielders to thin out so much, etc.

But then again, Dark Road is MUCH shorter and streamlined compared to UX as well as being easier to adapt into a movie format or even a game remake if they desire. lol

korr4k

I fair question: how common is the technology used by the "new" character in the Kh saga? To me, it felt kind of out of place.


We don't actually know what they used in the first place, but we already have smartphones in Radiant Garden at KH3, which is the world closest to the level of technology Daybreak Town and later Scala had. The feeling of it being out of place is because it was never really showed before throughout the X saga and it looks weird in sprite format, but the entire UX game took part in a data world in the first place. lol

Sign

June 2, 2021 @ 04:55 pmOffline

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Xagzan

Avoiding her would just let them off the hook, the way I see it. If Namine were ok with it, they have a looooot of right to do by her. Just like Isa has a bunch more to do for Xion than just buying her ice cream.

Isa is literally the only reason Xion is even around right now. He was the one who rediscovered her existence at a time when no one else knew or remembered and persuaded Xehanort that she'd be a worthy member, setting the events in motion for her return. He risked his life to ensure vessels would be ready for RNX so that they'd have somewhere to return to. He put on a front and allowed himself to die by their hands as the final act of atonement.

Isa's done enough for RAX and people need to realize that.

U.N. Owen

I hesitate to call Skuld Xehanort's mother because her hair cut, the hime cut, is pretty common in anime and manga. After all, it's not like Hinata Hyuga (Naruto), Enma Ai (Hell Girl), Konoka Konoe (Negima), and Aisa Himegami (A Certain Magic Index) sport the same cut. Those were just the ones I can name off the top of my head.


You should really be looking to Gentiana (FFXV), Gaia (FFXIV), Patroka (Xenoblade 2) and Shoka (NTWEWY) since they are all characters Nomura designed in the past few years (though I'm not super sure about Gentiana tbh).

Ballad of Caius

June 2, 2021 @ 05:20 pmOffline

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Chie

I believe that Darkness was referred to as a "friend" of MoM in a previous update as well, and they reinforce that here. I'm not sure what this means plot-wise, but they're the only things that know eachother from whatever era MoM came from. They may see themselves as something closer to equals than anybody else.

(This is yet another late-KH point that's very similar to something from a Kill the Past game, and so my theory of Nomura being a huge Suda fan continues on.)

I have a theory that, perhaps, the ancient civilization that predates the entire history of KINGDOM HEARTS, is a civilization where Light and Darkness were humanoid and they existed in a plane different to that of humans. Think of Heaven. At some point in time, Light and Darkness wage war and Darkness wins it by renouncing their humanity, meaning they become insane, unhinged animals. Since now they act via instinct and not reason, they operate on keeping themselves alive.
Alpha Baymax

Wouldn't it be cool if The Evil Queen influenced Lauriam and Maleficent influenced Elrena? The timeline adds up in the respective Disney world's.

It wouldn't surprise me. Like what happened with Terranort, perhaps they awoke in a state of amnesia, and thus, their future interactions turn Lauriam into Marluxia and Elrena into Larxene. And at some point, they become Nobodies.

Question: has anyone pondered the possibility that the woman carrying Xehanort, his alleged mother, could be Ava? She's not in present day KH and Luxu tells us she had a mission and she completed it. As a perfect vessel for Darkness, maybe her role in MoM's plan was to become the mother of a baby that could be the last inheritor of the MoM's Keyblade, and thus, progress his grand plan?
AegisXIII

For me, what I am more interested about is how they are going to fuse this story with the next phase in a coherent way. This sounds like a crazy challenge since probably 1% of the KH console user base will know about this finale.

A second Back Cover?

KeybladeLordSora

June 2, 2021 @ 05:39 pmOffline

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Sign

Isa is literally the only reason Xion is even around right now. He was the one who rediscovered her existence at a time when no one else knew or remembered and persuaded Xehanort that she'd be a worthy member, setting the events in motion for her return. He risked his life to ensure vessels would be ready for RNX so that they'd have somewhere to return to. He put on a front and allowed himself to die by their hands as the final act of atonement.

Isa's done enough for RAX and people need to realize that.

"B-B-But he said MEAN THINGS to them!"

Chie

June 2, 2021 @ 05:48 pmOffline

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I don't really get why people keep bringing up Marluxia/Larxene's personality development as if that's a plot point. They're people, they grow and change. You know, like you and me? I think Larxene ending up the way she does is particularly clear to me after the finale's part 1. "The only reason a young girl would end up feeling negative emotions is due to being corrupted by DARKNESS" would be, like, the worst.

Clue.Less

June 2, 2021 @ 05:49 pmOffline

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Sign

Isa is literally the only reason Xion is even around right now. He was the one who rediscovered her existence at a time when no one else knew or remembered and persuaded Xehanort that she'd be a worthy member, setting the events in motion for her return. He risked his life to ensure vessels would be ready for RNX so that they'd have somewhere to return to. He put on a front and allowed himself to die by their hands as the final act of atonement.

Isa's done enough for RAX and people need to realize that.



You should really be looking to Gentiana (FFXV), Gaia (FFXIV), Patroka (Xenoblade 2) and Shoka (NTWEWY) since they are all characters Nomura designed in the past few years (though I'm not super sure about Gentiana tbh).

I'm definitely calling that character "KH-Gentiana". Too many things in that environment remind me of Insomnian aesthetics, including her.

U.N. Owen

June 2, 2021 @ 06:08 pmOffline

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Sign

You should really be looking to Gentiana (FFXV), Gaia (FFXIV), Patroka (Xenoblade 2) and Shoka (NTWEWY) since they are all characters Nomura designed in the past few years (though I'm not super sure about Gentiana tbh).

A quick look on the FF wiki says Roberto Ferrari designed Gentiana. Still, the idea is the same. The hair style is really not too uncommon in media.
Clue.Less

I'm definitely calling that character "KH-Gentiana". Too many things in that environment remind me of Insomnian aesthetics, including her.

I would argue less Insomnia and more Altissia. Wherever Brain landed reminded me of a darker form of St. Peter's Square in the Vatican.

Moonlight Aqua

June 2, 2021 @ 06:22 pmOffline

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One thought I had as I was watching Cynical, is that I have a feeling on who's Eraqus's descendant. I feel that Emphermer is his descendant, not Brain. It would make sense because how buddy he was with player and I would make more sense as the ending of KH3, where the two friends go on together.

Sign

June 2, 2021 @ 06:33 pmOffline

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U.N. Owen

A quick look on the FF wiki says Roberto Ferrari designed Gentiana. Still, the idea is the same. The hair style is really not too uncommon in media.

I'm not disagreeing (since I pointed this out earlier in the thread as well), just pointing out that the precedence has been set with this one designer and no need to look elsewhere lol.

Moonlight Aqua

June 2, 2021 @ 06:35 pmOffline

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Noivern

We know exactly when and how Maleficent came back in KH2, which used to be a plothole for the longest time. And why she is after the box.

Wait... When do we learn why she's after the box?

Cumguardian69

June 2, 2021 @ 06:44 pmOffline

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Moonlight Aqua

Wait... When do we learn why she's after the box?

Recoded secret ending. She says the date escape is familiar and connected with the boom of prophexies.

Also to yall saying isa did enough, not true. He never died. Nobodies dont die, only somebodies do. Nobodies basically have second chance and once more on since destroying them means the somebody is basically guaranteed to return as long as there are keyslingers about. Hi. Roughhosuing xion around and basically calling her an it and messing with roxas is not ok. Yeah he zecured the package for vessel but that is not enough. It isbt.

LoneFox

June 2, 2021 @ 06:48 pmOffline

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One thing that appears to be missing is the ancient masters who went to the fictional world. The Master of Masters told to one of the Darknesses that it is his version of the Christian heaven, and it is well possible that he disappeared by going in there, but no-one else seems to have gotten any information about it.

One possible solution is that the Wreck-It Ralph arcade is somehow part of the fictional world. After all, when it was first introduced in quest 871, Brain told us that "Somehow, it's connected to a place that doesn't exist in this world or time." It also makes sense that Master Ephemer and his new friends from the newly-built Scala would go there to look for the Player. But if this is the case, then didn't the four Darknesses end up in exactly the last place where the MoM would have wanted them?

Any ideas, am I missing something?

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Tobi

June 2, 2021 @ 06:51 pmOffline

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gulava

Both of them need to apologize to her lol.
to be honest, I'm actually looking forward to how their interactions with her will unfold post-kh3.

And I hope they execute it in a not-cheap way. I'm already seeing it going kinda like:
Lauriam/Elrena appear before heroes (Namine included) -> heroes don't trust (afterall Sora isnt with them, the only witness of their last words), Namine is scared -> some villain appears -> they help to defeat villain x -> everything is okay again, lets be friends :D

I hope its gonna be more deep than this.

Clue.Less

June 2, 2021 @ 06:57 pmOffline

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U.N. Owen

I would argue less Insomnia and more Altissia. Wherever Brain landed reminded me of a darker form of St. Peter's Square in the Vatican.

You're right. Altissia works better! I had the floor of the insomnian palace plaza in mind, but Altissia is closer to the Scala vibe.

Another unrelated thought I had about this finale: the MoM had friends---were they all scary sociopaths like him? Imagine meeting one of them consumed by darkness...

Noivern

June 2, 2021 @ 06:57 pmOffline

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Cumguardian69

Recoded secret ending. She says the date escape is familiar and connected with the boom of prophexies.

Also to yall saying isa did enough, not true. He never died. Nobodies dont die, only somebodies do. Nobodies basically have second chance and once more on since destroying them means the somebody is basically guaranteed to return as long as there are keyslingers about. Hi. Roughhosuing xion around and basically calling her an it and messing with roxas is not ok. Yeah he zecured the package for vessel but that is not enough. It isbt.

Nobodies DO die, though. As much as a somebody dying at the hands of a Nobody/Heartless/Unversed. Just because they can get recompleted if their Heartless was dealt with doesn't change that from happening, it just makes it convenient.
It's just that Isa (as well as Lea before him) seems to have grown a heart, so his turmoil feels less impactful from a narrative standpoint since he shows up 1 hour later in the ending, but Nobodies very much die.

I think the main issue here is that while the Nobodies as a concept are pretty cool, the way they are written in the series is incredibly flawed. They are supposed to be emotionless beings just roleplaying a personality based on their memories, but even then Lexaeus for one had more personality going on than his counterpart did.

We can hardly justify the change in personality as well since Melody of Memories implies they were turned not very long after BBS ended, so they spent almost 2/3 of their lives as Nobodies.

LoneFox

One thing that appears to be missing is the ancient masters who went to the fictional world. The Master of Masters told to one of the Darknesses that it is his version of the Christian heaven, and it is well possible that he disappeared by going in there, but no-one else seems to have gotten any information about it.

One possible solution is that the Wreck-It Ralph arcade is somehow part of the fictional world. After all, when it was first introduced in quest 871, Brain told us that "Somehow, it's connected to a place that doesn't exist in this world or time." It also makes sense that Master Ephemer and his new friends from the newly-built Scala would go there to look for the Player. But if this is the case, then didn't the four Darknesses end up in exactly the last place where the MoM would have wanted them?

Any ideas, am I missing something?


Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember anywhere stating that the Foretellers went to the same place as the MoM. All we know is that they disappeared during the war and then show up again in the Re:Mind ending being summoned somehow by Luxu, seemingly without having aged a single day.

LoneFox

June 2, 2021 @ 07:14 pmOffline

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Noivern

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember anywhere stating that the Foretellers went to the same place as the MoM. All we know is that they disappeared during the war and then show up again in the Re:Mind ending being summoned somehow by Luxu, seemingly without having aged a single day.

I didn't say anything about the Foretellers. To our best knowledge they don't know anything about this, and the most likely place for them to go after the War seems to be the Final World. I'm assuming that the ancient masters Yen Sid talked about at the end of Melody of Memory are Ephemer, the Player, and some others from Scala. For example, there could be one whose name consists of the letters D, E, M, and Y in some order...

Ballad of Caius

June 2, 2021 @ 08:00 pmOffline

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LoneFox

One thing that appears to be missing is the ancient masters who went to the fictional world. The Master of Masters told to one of the Darknesses that it is his version of the Christian heaven, and it is well possible that he disappeared by going in there, but no-one else seems to have gotten any information about it.

One possible solution is that the Wreck-It Ralph arcade is somehow part of the fictional world. After all, when it was first introduced in quest 871, Brain told us that "Somehow, it's connected to a place that doesn't exist in this world or time." It also makes sense that Master Ephemer and his new friends from the newly-built Scala would go there to look for the Player. But if this is the case, then didn't the four Darknesses end up in exactly the last place where the MoM would have wanted them?

Any ideas, am I missing something?

Yeah. It makes sense. A world inside another world. Could be that Wreck it Ralph is Quadratum's iteration of Pooh's book.

Also, has anyone stopped to think that maybe Quadratum is an "unreal" world because it's a world the collective unconscious of the humans of Kingdom Hearts made up? Like how Yardabaoth from Persona 5 came into existence: the human conscious created him. What if Quadratum was created by the human conscious? What if this is the world that exists beyond death, beyond the Final World?

Hedginka

June 2, 2021 @ 08:58 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

"B-B-But he said MEAN THINGS to them!"


Damn, 358 days of mentally torturing Roxas, Axel and especially Xion, being a large reason Xion died in the first place. All summarised as saying mean things. Simplifying opposing arguments into a single sentence that doesn't represent said arguments at all, all while adding stutters just makes you look like a child.

Luxu

June 2, 2021 @ 09:43 pmOffline

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Now it makes so much sense that [SPOILER]Skuld/Likely Subject X[/SPOILER] spoke very few words.

[SPOILER]She was not only just exhausted from the battle with the Player, but she was traumatized from the destruction of Daybreak, even worse is that she lost both of her best friends.[/SPOILER]

Chie

June 2, 2021 @ 10:16 pmOffline

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LoneFox

One possible solution is that the Wreck-It Ralph arcade is somehow part of the fictional world.

This would very much fit the thematics of how Quadratum, despite being supposedly fictional, looks just like the real-world city of Tokyo, while the supposedly real world of KH's universe is made up of fairy tales/literature/movies. The "real world" of the arcade, which contains the video games (while we are literally playing video games!) goes along with the same reverse subtext. And Quadratum/Verum Rex the video game was introduced in the same world that first introduced Ralph, before the UX stuff.

"In this world, you come from a video game." -YX. Was he referring to Sora as Yozora? Or did it mean something else?

The_Echo

June 2, 2021 @ 10:39 pmOffline

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Hedginka

Damn, 358 days of mentally torturing Roxas, Axel and especially Xion, being a large reason Xion died in the first place. All summarised as saying mean things. Simplifying opposing arguments into a single sentence that doesn't represent said arguments at all, all while adding stutters just makes you look like a child.

I feel that you're really overstating Saïx's role in Days. "Saying mean things" is pretty accurate for nearly all of his screentime in Days.

palizinhas

June 2, 2021 @ 10:43 pmOffline

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The_Echo

I feel that you're really overstating Saïx's role in Days. "Saying mean things" is pretty accurate for nearly all of his screentime in Days.

Wasn't he the mastermind behind that fight Roxas and Xion had while thinking the other was a Heartless that Axel had to save them from? I know they fought to death like a few days afterwards, but engineering that was still a lot.

The_Echo

June 2, 2021 @ 10:49 pmOffline

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palizinhas

Wasn't he the mastermind behind that fight Roxas and Xion had while thinking the other was a Heartless that Axel had to save them from? I know they fought to death like a few days afterwards, but engineering that was still a lot.

It was Xemnas. The whole thing was Xemnas, really.

Noivern

June 2, 2021 @ 11:05 pmOffline

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The whole thing with Saïx had more to do with him omiting things from Axel while pretending to follow along to Xemnas plans than anything, really. He was a major asshole and still has a part in what happened, but if go over the actual events of Days, the one who actually pushes Xion to almost death is Riku.
Of course he had his reasons to do that and he was gentle in a way, but only because she actually agreed with him. Otherwise he probably would have fought against her just like with Roxas.

KeybladeLordSora

June 3, 2021 @ 01:19 amOffline

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Noivern

The whole thing with Saïx had more to do with him omiting things from Axel while pretending to follow along to Xemnas plans than anything, really. He was a major asshole and still has a part in what happened, but if go over the actual events of Days, the one who actually pushes Xion to almost death is Riku.
Of course he had his reasons to do that and he was gentle in a way, but only because she actually agreed with him. Otherwise he probably would have fought against her just like with Roxas.

Honestly the most involvement Riku had in that was telling her the situation and saying "You should think about it but also think about what's best for everyone"

He never exactly forced her to do it.

And he also asked Namine if there was a way to get Sora's memories back without having Roxas and Xion disappear.

There was....but it would've taken too long and DiZ was being impatient as hell.

Hedginka

June 3, 2021 @ 06:16 amOffline

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The_Echo

I feel that you're really overstating Saïx's role in Days. "Saying mean things" is pretty accurate for nearly all of his screentime in Days.



Not in the slightest. The argument that Xemnas was the sole contributor to everything is entirely mute, because Saix gave the orders. He gave the orders for Roxas to fight the heartless that was actually Xion, just as he gave Roxas the order to place a device in Agrabah that would lead to him fighting Xion again. On top of that, the shit he said to Xion wasn’t just mean, it was damaging and it was constant. Heck, let’s not forget that Saix tries to kill Roxas on Day 356

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Idreamaboutcats

June 3, 2021 @ 11:36 amOffline

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Forget the Saïx thing for a while; the guy had abandonment issues, and hurled a lot of verbal abuse, yes, yes, we know.

What matters now is wrapping up any loose ends now that it’s all over, but we just got more questions instead. What is it that MoM is referring to? We know it’s Quadratum, but we hardly know what Quadratum actually is. It isn’t a data world, because then that would constitute it as still a part of “Reality.” We know it’s the opposite of that, a “fantasy.” But what constitutes a fantasy? The translation here, while unofficial, describes it as some sort of afterlife destination, and while I’m doubtful if that’s what it actually means due to the existence of the Underworld, the underlying question remains:

What is the unreality/fantasy that MoM talked about?

What are the components of its existence if even the primary forces of reality and their “parts” (i.e. dreams, data, and that one other thing I forgot) have no dominion over it?

How did MoM get there? Has he been going back and forth or did he just enter recently?

Violet Pluto

June 3, 2021 @ 01:31 pmOffline

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Idreamaboutcats

What matters now is wrapping up any loose ends now that it’s all over, but we just got more questions instead. What is it that MoM is referring to? We know it’s Quadratum, but we hardly know what Quadratum actually is. It isn’t a data world, because then that would constitute it as still a part of “Reality.” We know it’s the opposite of that, a “fantasy.” But what constitutes a fantasy? The translation here, while unofficial, describes it as some sort of afterlife destination, and while I’m doubtful if that’s what it actually means due to the existence of the Underworld, the underlying question remains:

What is the unreality/fantasy that MoM talked about?

...I'm hoping (and I don't know whether this is hoping for or against this right now) Final Fantasy. Or some equivalent. We assumed that Nomura didn't want FF characters in KH anymore because he was salty, but what if it wasn't only that, but because he wanted to introduce an equivalent in "Unreality" as opposed to the worlds above that are mostly Disney focused with some FF influence?

Now that's just my first thought (which if it's anywhere close to right that would be amazing) but Fantasy/Fiction being a world that you can't even imagine sounds really odd otherwise. The whole Unreality thing is tripping us up because it's a bit nonsense, literally. It goes against all common sense that something that is not real has it's own reality that you can go to. Because that makes it real. But whatever Nomura, I'm up for your wacky ride.

Ballad of Caius

June 3, 2021 @ 02:48 pmOffline

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Chie

This would very much fit the thematics of how Quadratum, despite being supposedly fictional, looks just like the real-world city of Tokyo, while the supposedly real world of KH's universe is made up of fairy tales/literature/movies. The "real world" of the arcade, which contains the video games (while we are literally playing video games!) goes along with the same reverse subtext. And Quadratum/Verum Rex the video game was introduced in the same world that first introduced Ralph, before the UX stuff.

"In this world, you come from a video game." -YX. Was he referring to Sora as Yozora? Or did it mean something else?

It'd be ironic if the denizens of Quadratum share the sentiment that the worlds of KH are also an Unreality, like, denizens from the opposing worlds think they both are Unreality.

---

Edit:

That makes me wonder: what would the people of Quadratum call the world of KH?

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Xagzan

June 3, 2021 @ 02:56 pmOffline

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Idreamaboutcats

Forget the Saïx thing for a while; the guy had abandonment issues, and hurled a lot of verbal abuse, yes, yes, we know.

What matters now is wrapping up any loose ends now that it’s all over, but we just got more questions instead.


Symbolically, that's pretty much exactly my problem with KH in a nutshell. In a way this is channeling the writers. Instead of focusing on characters, which at this point have become the strongest element of the narrative (and Saix is one of the most interesting tbh), they seem to want to direct our attention to this abstract labyrinth of quasi-philosophical, jumbled, as y'all say, nonsense. It's probably not going to be coherent in the end anyway, and will probably be explored at the expense of character, which the whole UX saga itself displayed.

Cumguardian69

June 3, 2021 @ 03:12 pmOffline

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Characters cant be focused on in this chibi drip feed style. Lets weight until our next real KH game comes out before we judge phase two writing, character, and world building.

Becoz introducing new world concepts was X/UX/XBC/MoM primary job and I'd say they did that very well.

•unreality (basically another dimension - not a "realm" but an entirely different dimension with different properties and physics and constitutions)
•death is not THE end necessarily
•how is dram eeter formed?
•Darkness the entities vs Darkness the force
•arks and time travel
•body hopping and heart ejection

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Xagzan

June 3, 2021 @ 03:19 pmOffline

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Even mobile drip feeds can have decent character work. They certainly run for long enough. Dissidia Opera Omnia has even done a few interesting things with some FF characters over the years, and that's got a cast of 100+ to juggle.

Also, UX didn't really introduce most of those concepts. Hell, as far as time travel goes, what are we on now, like, the 3rd set of rules?

Violet Pluto

June 3, 2021 @ 03:46 pmOffline

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Xagzan

Even mobile drip feeds can have decent character work. They certainly run for long enough. Dissidia Opera Omnia has even done a few interesting things with some FF characters over the years, and that's got a cast of 100+ to juggle.

Also, UX didn't really introduce most of those concepts. Hell, as far as time travel goes, what are we on now, like, the 3rd set of rules?

We are still on the second set. The first was regarded as too dangerous and basically "cheating" in-universe. This one is basically "You need a version of you at the time you travel to or someone to remember you and a vessel at destination" and "only the heart can travel through time, the body is abandoned in travel." If anything it was added to slightly, but nothing was overwritten.

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Tobi

June 3, 2021 @ 04:02 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

It'd be ironic if the denizens of Quadratum share the sentiment that the worlds of KH are also an Unreality, like, denizens from the opposing worlds think they both are Unreality.

---

Edit:

That makes me wonder: what would the people of Quadratum call the world of KH?

That was one of my first thoughts after learning about the whole unreality thing, although I did lean more towards the idea, that the KH world is the true unreality, while Quadratum and its world is meant to be reality (well as much as reality can be in a game series with magic and such stuff). But I guess the idea that the whole reality/unreality stuff is really ending up as a thing of perspective is more safer for series to continue (or atleast it would be weird to play as characters who became aware of it, that they are unreal).

But yes, I agree that the whole thing sounds for me too like an attempt to strengthen the Final Fantasy side and MoMs talk about it did strengthen that idea for myself. It sounded kinda like someone would advertise a Final Fantasy game, which has the concept of being unreal in it's very name. Tbf, MoM talked more about a place which is unimagineable, but i do think the result is the same.

Alpha Baymax

June 3, 2021 @ 05:18 pmOffline

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I'm glad that Demyx and Luxord had nothing to do with The Age of Fairy Tales, let them be important in Quadratum.

Zettaflare

June 3, 2021 @ 05:46 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax

I'm glad that Demyx and Luxord had nothing to do with The Age of Fairy Tales, let them be important in Quadratum.

Same. Them being from Quadratum or the missing classmates is far more interesting.

Though I suspect Demyx might be that person in the white Cloak MoM shipped off

Ballad of Caius

June 3, 2021 @ 06:01 pmOffline

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Zettaflare

Same. Them being from Quadratum or the missing classmates is far more interesting.

Though I suspect Demyx might be that person in the white Cloak MoM shipped off

[/QUOTE]
Hmm... I'm on the boat that thinks that the True Dandelion is a female character, and at that, possibly Streritzia. Maybe that's how Ventus, Lauriam and Elrena all end up in different eras, but can exist in them because someone remembers them: Streritzia. And she is called the True Dandelion because she helped the Dandelions fly out of the end of the world: by being in those eras, remembering the Union Leaders.

Violet Pluto

June 3, 2021 @ 06:05 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax

I'm glad that Demyx and Luxord had nothing to do with The Age of Fairy Tales, let them be important in Quadratum.

Xemnas never said anything about Age of Fairytales just "the Ancient Keyblade Legacy" Which you can read as the AoF, but doesn't exactly mean that specifically. Also Demyx lost his memories? Because he looks confused when Xemnas says that, and while I can buy it for Larxene and Marluxia, it's unclear if Demyx knows. Also Luxord, but I forgot his name for most of this post and I don't want to go and restructure everything now.

Alpha Baymax

June 3, 2021 @ 07:12 pmOffline

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Violet Pluto

Xemnas never said anything about Age of Fairytales just "the Ancient Keyblade Legacy" Which you can read as the AoF, but doesn't exactly mean that specifically.

Yeah, that's the technicality that Xemnas uses. Most people immediately assumed that The Ancient Keyblade Legacy = The Ancient Keyblade War but I figured it was much more complex than that after ReMind.

LoneFox

June 3, 2021 @ 07:35 pmOffline

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A couple of observations about Ephemer and Skuld. First, I assumed that Ephemer not launching was his own last moment decision, that he wanted to try to save the player. This seems natural, because we saw that he was thinking about the player, and such a move would also be very in-character for him. But if we take a closer look, the machine is controlled from the computer and not from inside the pods. He didn't have that option, and in fact neither of them went anywhere near the computer. So, this looks like Skuld didn't get launched either!

Second, how come this hasn't caused the shipping thread to explode?

Sign

June 3, 2021 @ 07:38 pmOffline

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LoneFox

A couple of observations about Ephemer and Skuld. First, I assumed that Ephemer not launching was his own last moment decision, that he wanted to try to save the player. This seems natural, because we saw that he was thinking about the player, and such a move would also be very in-character for him. But if we take a closer look, the machine is controlled from the computer and not from inside the pods. He didn't have that option, and in fact neither of them went anywhere near the computer. So, this looks like Skuld didn't get launched either!

Second, how come this hasn't caused the shipping thread to explode?



I think we are too invested in these characters as an OT3 rather than an OTP.

Or at least that's just me lol

Willow A113

June 3, 2021 @ 07:41 pmOffline

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Idreamaboutcats

What are the components of its existence if even the primary forces of reality and their “parts” (i.e. dreams, data, and that one other thing I forgot) have no dominion over it?

Memories

Willow A113

June 3, 2021 @ 07:42 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

That makes me wonder: what would the people of Quadratum call the world of KH?

"That one Disney game for kids"

SweetYetSalty

June 3, 2021 @ 07:43 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax

I'm glad that Demyx and Luxord had nothing to do with The Age of Fairy Tales, let them be important in Quadratum.

I'm so thankful for that. Since it was teased/hinted Luxord might be in Quadratum I've been crossing my fingers Demyx is from there too. I mean personally I wished they were just some random guys on the street who came into power by chance, but those theory days are long over. As long as they are not time traveled...please!

That being said, I'm a little hesitant learning more about them, regardless where they are from. Luxord and Demyx are some of my favorite Organization members and I'm afraid they'll change their core characters if we go too deep into their backstory. Among members 9-12, Luxord to me is the most interesting right now. They are making him more important but haven't changed what made the character, they are just playing up to his gambler riddle talk that he's had for awhile now. I would hate for us to go to Quadratum and find out, "Oh this was all an act! Luxord is actually this character" As for Demyx it would so be in character for him to know more then he lets on but is so lazy he doesn't mention it to anyone because he wants to stay out of the spotlight. Needless to say I hope Demyx doesn't change either.

Violet Pluto

June 3, 2021 @ 09:33 pmOffline

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[USER=255248]@LoneFox[/USER] Computer could have been on Auto or it could just be a large oversight.

EDIT: Just looked back at the scene. There was a timeskip from the scene where they go outside and when they get into the pods. Ephemera or Skuld could have programmed the coordinates off screen.

EDIT 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: Dream Eaters protect their Keyblade Wielder's Hearts from falling to Darkness in the Sleeping Worlds. Riku was a Dream Eater in DDD and protected Sora's Heart. But how was he changed into a Dream Eater? Also Xehanort chose the second most difficult place to corrupt Sora for some odd reason.

Cumguardian69

June 3, 2021 @ 10:29 pmOffline

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Violet Pluto

EDIT 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: Dream Eaters protect their Keyblade Wielder's Hearts from falling to Darkness in the Sleeping Worlds. Riku was a Dream Eater in DDD and protected Sora's Heart. But how was he changed into a Dream Eater? Also Xehanort chose the second most difficult place to corrupt Sora for some odd reason.

actually the RoS is easy to corrupt someone in if you can track their coordinates. Sleep is almost intertwined with Darkness.

SuperNova

June 4, 2021 @ 12:16 amOffline

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Dandelions/Keykids being Dream Eaters makes me wonder if Sora being able to summon them into the real world because of his powers of connection is the reason why Ephemer contacted him from beyond the grave. :unsure:

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sora's skyline

June 4, 2021 @ 12:33 amOffline

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Ok,

So my mind has been absolutely swirling since seeing the translated finale a day or so ago. I put a ton of thoughts on paper, and have no one in my actual life to share these with, so I wanted to put this out there to those that might actually care.

The Brain-Luxu KHUX Finale Conundrum

Please let me know your thoughts about my ideas (and just how crazy I might actually be) and for those who aren't interested in the full experience, I put a TLDR down at the bottom, but I will copy that to the bottom of this post.

TLDR Version

"To wrap this up, I believe the Luxu takes on Brain as his apprentice, teaches Brain everything he can about the time travel process, in return Brain must hide the box, most likely by actually sending it forwards in time for Luxu to find after the keyblade war.

Brain leaves Luxu to carry on his tasks, and time travels himself to Scala ad Caelum to try and save the dandelions with his new found tools, knowledge and status as a Master keyblade wielder. "

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HamHamJ

June 4, 2021 @ 01:29 amOffline

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Something I'm wondering about is the status of the non-main character keyblade wielders and how it fits into KH3 and the future. It seems like keeping this straight might be important:

Group A would be those that didn't get chosen for the Dandelions. These are dead?
Group B would be the Dandelions. These fell asleep?
Group C would be the union leaders and extras that got out on the arcs.

(On the above, my understanding is that at least some of the people we see floating around and turning into Dreameaters are actual NPCs from the game. Are they all Dandelions? Or does anyone who died prior to the war or presumably in it show up in that scene?)

These are related to the worlds in play as well.

Real Daybreak Town (and the whole world it was in) got destroyed.
Data Daybreak Town became a sleeping world?
After being destroyed, real Daybreak Town and associated world was rebuilt... somehow... into the current world?

Actually on that last point, my previous understanding is that the children from Kairi's grandmother's story who rebuilt the world were the Dandelions, but now that the Dandelions have fallen into sleep is it just talking about Ephemer and I guess whatever survivors he somehow found to build Scala???

Finally, the main reference to Union X in KH3 was obviously the light from the past... but was that Group A or Group B? I would assume A because the Keyblade Graveyard is presumably composed of those who died in the war, and thus were by definition not Dandelions. But why is Ephemer there, he didn't die in the keyblade war? Or is it somehow the Dandelions showing up from the realm of sleep?

Presumably Data Daybreak Town is still a sleeping world along with all the Dandelions, which will probably be important. Unless Ephemer or Brain actually already succeeded in waking them.

Clue.Less

June 4, 2021 @ 05:14 amOffline

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I don't understand how Ephemer is able to build an entire civilization on his own. Unless he manages to wake the data backup of the worlds and the Dandelions from sleep mode to launch the restoration process? This way at least there are people with him to build Scala.

KudoTsurugi

June 4, 2021 @ 08:55 amOffline

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I’m going to be honest, I hate the idea of the Player character being a reincarnated Xehanort. It was completely unnecessary. We already have Dark Road as a Xehanort story, we didn’t need him shoehorned in at the end of Union X too. If they absolutely had to go the reincarnation route, I’d rather they came back as someone completely new rather than someone already established.

I don’t expect them to make a character creation choice in the next main game to justify having Player show up in a 3D game, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a stand-in character if they decided to bring up their role or something in the future.

Everything else was good though. The idea of Dream Eaters being guardians/vessels for sleeping hearts is an interesting idea, but makes sense in a way. It’ll be interesting to see where things go next, but I hope for the next game they go the multi-console route.

LoneFox

June 4, 2021 @ 09:09 amOffline

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sora's skyline

Please let me know your thoughts about my ideas (and just how crazy I might actually be)

I see you have put a lot of effort into this, which does deserve respect. There are some good ideas in it. However, you have also missed a few important things.

I should have noticed myself the possibility of Brain escaping though the same portal as Luxu. I don't think it is what actually happened, but it definitely deserves to be investigated. One problem I see immediately is that Brain seems to have no motive for time travel if he doesn't need to do it to save his own life. Wouldn't he go to check what is left of Daybreak Town (in his current time, using a portal), meet Ephemer and see what he has done to it, and then implement whatever his plan is from there. Also, when he arrived, he clearly didn't know where and when he is, which means his destination was not under his own control.

Are there any other means for time travel than the pods? Ignoring Merlin's door, which was considered an anomaly in-universe, I believe the only other known instances of anyone going into the future in the whole series are Young Xehanort and a few other org. XIII members summoned there by older version of Xehanort. We know that Xehanort had access to a similar machine, and was familiar with it, so it's likely that he also used this method. Only difference I see is the use of replica bodies instead of remembering + a medium.

Speaking of a medium, Brain's hat seems to be the medium used to give him his body back. My understanding is that for the others, the Eye was used (which BTW could be another explanation for that stupid amnesia), but here it wouldn't be available if No Name was given to Brain himself. So this, while not a true proof, is a clue that Brain indeed did get No Name. Now, the secret report 13 has this:



Spanning the ages in body after body, life after life, my task has been to keep vigil over the Eye as it passes from hand to hand.


which debunks the idea that Brain went so far into the future that he could be Eraqus's grandfather, assuming the Eye went with him. And if it didn't, then why the hat is needed?

Your assumption that there are only seven pods is wrong, simply because there are more than that already in the story. Five were launched into the future, two used by Ephemer and Skuld, one broken in the fight between Lauriam and Maleficent, and one left in the data world. Isn't it safe to assume that since #8 and #9 exists, #10-14 also do, to fill both versions of the machine? And Luxu would know where they are and how to bring them in.

I agree with your explanation for the non-existence of the box, and while I have myself suggested time travel as one possibility for its disappearance (I even tried to turn it into a meme by calling it "the Date Escape Theory"), the idea that it might have been in the fictional world is both new and good. However, I believe it disappeared much later. I think Luxu sent it away to protect it either from whatever crisis caused Scala to be abandoned, or from Xehanort when he took over Radiant Garden. The main reason for this is, the original version of Xigbar's character file has something like "the box that has been protected by Keyblade wielders ever since long, long ago" in it. The line has been left out of the official translation, but it is in various unofficial ones made before the official one was released.

For secret report 11, there are some questions:
[LIST=1]
[*]Who is the virus?
[*]How does Ven represent the virus?
[*]What is "the same trick"?
[/LIST]
These are not directly related to the subject, but it seems that some theories can answer them much better than others. I'd like to see your answers before posting my own (and of course others are welcome to contribute as well).

Let's take this as a challenge, can we crack the code?

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sora's skyline

June 4, 2021 @ 11:12 amOffline

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I see you have put a lot of effort into this, which does deserve respect. There are some good ideas in it. However, you have also missed a few important things.


Thanks. My mind was running crazy all day yesterday, and I didn't have the ability to put thoughts on paper until much later, and I'm sure I missed ideas I had collected over the day as my mind jumped to conclusions.





I should have noticed myself the possibility of Brain escaping though the same portal as Luxu. I don't think it is what actually happened, but it definitely deserves to be investigated. One problem I see immediately is that Brain seems to have no motive for time travel if he doesn't need to do it to save his own life. Wouldn't he go to check what is left of Daybreak Town (in his current time, using a portal), meet Ephemer and see what he has done to it, and then implement whatever his plan is from there. Also, when he arrived, he clearly didn't know where and when he is, which means his destination was not under his own control.



My thoughts here are this... Luxu obviously told Brain SOMETHING to convince him to become his apprentice. Maybe it was something as simple as, "If you die here, you will never be able to save them" or perhaps it was deeper "We have both read at least some of the BoP and we both know things are not salvagable in this time. You need to travel to the future when technology is more advanced, and then you can save them all. I can show you the way..." Given people find the fact Sigurd is using some communicator as a weird 'leap forward' in technology, this point might not be so far fetched...

It's true Brain didn't know exactly when or where he was. But "May my heart be my guiding key" might be Nomura's way of helping the characters understand that they may not always know (in their mind) where they need to go and when, but their heart does know. So let your heart lead. Perhaps Brains heart can control the destination and make sure he appears exactly when and where he lands, to give him the best chance of accomplishing his goal? Even if he himself doesn't exactly know when/where that should be?




Are there any other means for time travel than the pods? Ignoring Merlin's door, which was considered an anomaly in-universe, I believe the only other known instances of anyone going into the future in the whole series are Young Xehanort and a few other org. XIII members summoned there by older version of Xehanort. We know that Xehanort had access to a similar machine, and was familiar with it, so it's likely that he also used this method. Only difference I see is the use of replica bodies instead of remembering + a medium.

Speaking of a medium, Brain's hat seems to be the medium used to give him his body back. My understanding is that for the others, the Eye was used (which BTW could be another explanation for that stupid amnesia), but here it wouldn't be available if No Name was given to Brain himself. So this, while not a true proof, is a clue that Brain indeed did get No Name. Now, the secret report 13 has this:



My money is on their being another method. One that the true Masters know of, and likely this is one of the things the MoM taught Young Xehanort when they met. We know Time Travel has become too central to this series, and whether we want it to or not, the rules and realities of it are going to evolve. My guess is Brain experienced a previously unseen method of Time Travel. Heck, maybe even he discovered it himself considering his penchant for leaping to correct conclusions from very limited information, and seemingly always being right.




which debunks the idea that Brain went so far into the future that he could be Eraqus's grandfather, assuming the Eye went with him. And if it didn't, then why the hat is needed?



I assume the hat is still the medium for reformation. regardless of how far forward Brain actually jumped. I suppose an alternate explanation is possible here... What if Brain is actually in FUTURE Scala. Not Future compared to Brain, but past for Xehanort. Like FUTURE Scala, as in future of KH Scala, and he actually jumped THAT far in the future. People posited that the Scala that Brain and BabyNort appear in looks very different than the Scala of Dark Road. I know Damo, amongst others has speculated there is a "Ragnarok" type event that occurs in Scala, due to all the Norse connections. But his assumptions are predicated on Brain getting there first, then BabyNort is taken away from there, 'Ragnarok' happens and then TeenNort returns for Dark Road. What if BabyNort is taken from the future Scala, and taken to Destiny Islands to protect him while he grows, and then he is taken to the past Scala, before 'Ragnarok' actually happens? In that instance, Brain exists in 'future post-apocalypse Scala' and obviously can't be related to Eraqus. It also means my idea of him taking No-Name to Scala and hanging it up to observe the most critical city in the world for all time (or until Xehanort takes it down) as completely fried.

Stepping out of that 'crazy' (is there such a thing in KH theorizing?) line of thinking, if Brain carries the eye with him directly, it wouldn't be there at his destination to help him reform, so to me that would explain the need for the hat to be his medium for return.




Your assumption that there are only seven pods is wrong, simply because there are more than that already in the story. Five were launched into the future, two used by Ephemer and Skuld, one broken in the fight between Lauriam and Maleficent, and one left in the data world. Isn't it safe to assume that since #8 and #9 exists, #10-14 also do, to fill both versions of the machine? And Luxu would know where they are and how to bring them in.



I think that the data pods seem to disappear once used to reach the real world, otherwise where are they? 7 data pods, Maleficent took 1, 1 destroyed, and 4 used by the UX leaders to escape, 1 remains. When we see Ven, Elrena and Laurium in the future, they aren't in pods. Did they get out and leave them behind? Or did the pods simply get sacrificed as a means of travel?

In terms of real pods, Maleficent took 1, 'true dandelion' took one, Ven, Elrena and Laurium took 1. That's 5 pods. Which leaves Brain with the two 'real pods' he sends to the data world. Brain knowing there are 3 left behind, sends 2 pods back (because apparently a data to real world transfer doesn't affect their existence?) because those 2 pods, plus the one there, gets all 3 of them out in theory. We know the Darkness' arrived and ruined those plans. My flaw in the 'Pods disappear' thought of course is that the 2 Brain sends back, both transport Skuld/Ephemer from data town to real world, and then to the future, or in Brain's case, as a vessel for surviving the destruction of Day Break Town. Perhaps a 'real' pod moving from data world to real world isn't destroyed as it doesn't actually travel through time? Maybe this is a plot hole that will never be resolved and we just aren't supposed to think that hard about?




I agree with your explanation for the non-existence of the box, and while I have myself suggested time travel as one possibility for its disappearance (I even tried to turn it into a meme by calling it "the Date Escape Theory"), the idea that it might have been in the fictional world is both new and good. However, I believe it disappeared much later. I think Luxu sent it away to protect it either from whatever crisis caused Scala to be abandoned, or from Xehanort when he took over Radiant Garden. The main reason for this is, the original version of Xigbar's character file has something like "the box that has been protected by Keyblade wielders ever since long, long ago" in it. The line has been left out of the official translation, but it is in various unofficial ones made before the official one was released.



I like the idea of Luxu needing to hide the box and asking Brain to do it for him, to further distance Luxu's ability to find it, in case he ever does fall to Darkness. Which seems to be a distinct possibility he needs to be concerned about considering he is harboring one of the strongest darknesses, and eventually needs to become MX's vessel for darkness and a nobody. He would know better than anyone that Darkness simply cannot be allowed to get hands upon the box. So if he is 'taken' and has any real knowledge of the Box's whereabouts that could be bad.

As to that line that was removed, first off I love it. Second, given that it says 'keyblade wielders....' perhaps it wasn't just one protector? If it was one person standing vigil forever, that would be Luxu, and Xigbar of course would know that. But multiple wielders could be an implication that Luxu's apprentice (assuming it is Brain) would also have protected the box as well.




For secret report 11, there are some questions:
[LIST=1]
[*]Who is the virus?
[*]How does Ven represent the virus?
[*]What is "the same trick"?
[/LIST]



Well the self-described Virus is Brain...




Secret Report 11 - KH3

Observations, Excerpt 1—

I have seen it through; the Keyblade War unfolded exactly as written on the Lost Page. Now, the Keyblade the Master entrusted to me must be bequeathed to another. Five Union leaders have been chosen from the surviving Dandelions. I will pass the Keyblade to one of them, and then continue watching the future unfold.

Yet it seems that someone has pulled the old switcheroo. One of the Five is an imposter, someone the Master did not choose. They represent a virus in the program he so carefully wrote.

The virus has begun a strange undertaking: a reckless plot to allow the Five to escape into another worldline. Surely such a thing can't be possible? We're talking about the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War. But these children are no Masters. They haven't the means...unless, of course, a certain lady of magic summoned here from the future knows more than I do.

The whole Union leader thing was supposed to be by the books. Are these new events just another phase in the Master's grand plan?

—Unknown



One of the FIVE is an imposter. Which Five? the original foretellers or the new Union Leaders? Why not both? We always assumed it was the UX leaders. But why can't Luxu be implying the imposter is part of the original 5? MoM calls him a traitor at the end. Perhaps this is because he knows he will ultimately give one of his tasks to someone else, to Brain? That task being protect the box?




[HEADING=1]Secret Report 12[/HEADING]
Observations, Excerpt 2—Even on a worldline with no Keyblade War, peace is but a dream. In the absence of us and our Master, a "darkness" arrived—one that shall surely lead the World to yet another demise.Amid the chaos, I bequeathed my Keyblade to one of the Union leaders, just as the Master instructed. I watched as the Five were sent to another worldline—at no small cost—ensuring the line of Keyblade wielders will live on. And now, Keybladeless, I must depart this land to fulfill my final task. This means casting my own body aside and sojourning my heart in vessel after vessel—as many as it takes.But I will continue gazing upon each passing era, one unto the next. In time, be it years or decades, centuries or millennia, I will meet the Five once more.Somewhere in this cyclical history of bequeathings, a chosen one will appear and reenact the Keyblade War. When this scapegoat arrives and takes my Keyblade in hand, that will be the time to take the stage and finish my role.The Lost Masters will awaken.—Unknown



I say this, because in report 12, Luxu calls them the Five and that the Lost Masters will Awaken. Isn't it possible that he considers the foretellers the Five?

Even re-reading this it seems a stretch for sure. But I do think there is some double talk about which 5 Luxu is referring to in these reports. I just might not have the right angle on it just yet.

I think Ven is simply an imposter, but Brain is the virus that upends the whole thing, by devising the plan to get them out, and by becoming Luxu's apprentice and not following through with the initial idea of passing the blade down person to person for millennia. Simply because he took the blade and time traveled and jumped the line quite a bit....

As for the trick, I don't know that we know what that is yet. The MoM did something to send everyone to Data Daybreak town. I suppose it could have been Ark's en masse. But I'd consider that fairly unlikely. Then again, who knows with Nomura if we will ever get that context....




These are not directly related to the subject, but it seems that some theories can answer them much better than others. I'd like to see your answers before posting my own (and of course others are welcome to contribute as well).

Let's take this as a challenge, can we crack the code?


Agreed. Let's crack this thing.

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EternalDreamVG

June 4, 2021 @ 12:06 pmOffline

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Something I'm rather curious about, in the event that any of the time travelling people from Union X were to perish, should they not get booted back to their own time to "live out their lives" like what happens to most of the Real Org XIII?

Let's say Brain dies a natural death after living in Scala - should his heart then not return back to the moment he was sent to the future by, presumably, Luxu?

Or is this two distinctly different methods of time travel, with its own rules?

Clue.Less

June 4, 2021 @ 12:10 pmOffline

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Looking at the numeral system that appears in one of the screenshots here... is it just me or does number 8 look a lot like the reference symbol the MoM mentions when talking about the world of neither light nor darkness?

[URL unfurl="true"]https://noisypixel.net/kingdom-hearts-iv-could-be-titled-kingdom-hearts-x/[/URL]

By the way this numeral system solves the Ultima keyblade design issue for future titles.

Chie

June 4, 2021 @ 01:04 pmOffline

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I don't think so, however it is basically the same as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_of_Chaos

Violet Pluto

June 4, 2021 @ 01:10 pmOffline

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EternalDreamVG

Something I'm rather curious about, in the event that any of the time travelling people from Union X were to perish, should they not get booted back to their own time to "live out their lives" like what happens to most of the Real Org XIII?

Let's say Brain dies a natural death after living in Scala - should his heart then not return back to the moment he was sent to the future by, presumably, Luxu?

Or is this two distinctly different methods of time travel, with its own rules?

Thing is with how the time travel system was introduced in DDD, you can't change events fated to happen/that have already happened and thus the Norts had to be sent back when defeated to be taken out in their original games. Changing the past would be a Nature Taboo. Abusing the Power of Waking too much to change the past is why Sora disappeared. We can thus make the connection that since Xehanort's plan was contingent on existing and using the fact that he had his parts be defeated before, he wouldn't want to change the past making this rule one he would follow.

The Dandeleaders all have no more role to play in the past, so they don't rubberband back to the past upon defeat/death.
Chie

I don't think so, however it is basically the same as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_of_Chaos

It's a Japanese Asterisk called the komejirushi or rice marker. He pretty much says "a land of __" Or maybe he literally says Asterisk but anyway it's a normal symbol in Japanese ※ easily available in Microsoft IME by typing in "kome" and going down the list until finding it.

Chie

June 4, 2021 @ 01:35 pmOffline

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I know what the reference marker is, I'm the one who first brought it up. I'm just saying that the 8 in Scala numerals is basically the symbol of chaos, and so doesn't look that much like the reference mark to me.

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EternalDreamVG

June 4, 2021 @ 01:37 pmOffline

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Violet Pluto

It's a Japanese Asterisk called the komejirushi or rice marker. He pretty much says "a land of __" Or maybe he literally says Asterisk but anyway it's a normal symbol in Japanese ※ easily available in Microsoft IME by typing in "kome" and going down the list until finding it.

Is it ever used in this particular way however? Back in KH2 when the photo thief thing happened, the Japanese script simply used ___ too, just like the English one. And isn't 〇 (maru) the typical symbol used to censor out a word in text, in the way that english would with ****?

As far as I'm aware, ※ is only really interchangeable with * when used as...well, a reference marker, as its name suggests. Like when adding footnotes.

Violet Pluto

June 4, 2021 @ 01:51 pmOffline

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EternalDreamVG

Is it ever used in this particular way however? Back in KH2 when the photo thief thing happened, the Japanese script simply used ___ too, just like the English one. And isn't 〇 (maru) the typical symbol used to censor out a word in text, in the way that english would with ****?

As far as I'm aware, ※ is only really interchangeable with * when used as...well, a reference marker, as its name suggests. Like when adding footnotes.

Well you are right about the circle being a common sensor but as shown in the video* in KH2 to blank the words they just used "ーーーー” instead of asterisks or circles. While this might mean something it could very well just be a difference in purpose, for while in KH2 they couldn't say the word in this he probably says it and we weren't allowed that info.

*

LoneFox

June 4, 2021 @ 02:51 pmOffline

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sora's skyline

Thanks. My mind was running crazy all day yesterday, and I didn't have the ability to put thoughts on paper until much later, and I'm sure I missed ideas I had collected over the day as my mind jumped to conclusions.

I know exactly what you mean. I was in similar state of mind for about 3 days or so...

Right now I'm too tired to speculate on anything, but I guess I can at least give my own answers to the questions. Since I believe that Luxu and Brain are the same person, obviously he is also the virus. He is inserting himself into the program (or plan) just like a virus would do. The trick is re-living part of one's life again, that is what the Dandelions did and also what Brain is doing as Luxu. Ven's role is a much harder question, and I don't have a simple answer to it. It can be just the fact that Brain accepted Ven as part of the group even after learning that he was not on the list, but there seems to be at least one way for it to mean more than that.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about the consequences of Ava's attempt to change the future. I had several ideas about it, but they all were wrong, because I was assuming that either Lauriam or Strelitzia was supposed to get the Book. But now we know it was Ephemer instead, and interestingly there is a chain of connections from his disappearance to Strelitzia's death. Him disappearing caused the Player to wait for him on the fountain square for a whole day, and that is where Strelitzia first noticed the Player and went "❤️!!", which then lead to her looking for the Player and going into that building. Now, we have assumed that Ephemer was sent away by Ava to stop him from snooping around, mostly because Ava seemed to know where he was, but this was never confirmed. So, it is in theory possible that Luxu caused his disappearance and therefore the switcheroo.

Another thing, I have a faint memory that soon after the machine/ark was revealed, someone spotted a spare pod on the background of some old scene, but I have no idea where it was. Does anyone else remember this?

Alexxio M.

June 4, 2021 @ 02:55 pmOffline

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Tobi

And I hope they execute it in a not-cheap way. I'm already seeing it going kinda like:
Lauriam/Elrena appear before heroes (Namine included) -> heroes don't trust (afterall Sora isnt with them, the only witness of their last words), Namine is scared -> some villain appears -> they help to defeat villain x -> everything is okay again, lets be friends :D

I hope its gonna be more deep than this.

This is perfect
let’s have Axel roxas or xion be the one to open the door and do the correction of names thing.
also slight nitpick Mickey was in the battle with larxene and Marluxia so he would also be there to witness their last words (If you beat Luxord first that is)

Here’s an explanation of what the reference mark may mean from hmk

hope it can help the discussion

AleMustDie

June 4, 2021 @ 04:39 pmOffline

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Zettaflare

Same. Them being from Quadratum or the missing classmates is far more interesting.

Though I suspect Demyx might be that person in the white Cloak MoM shipped off

[/QUOTE]

It's different, Demyx is the MoM

BTW, after watching this Finale agaon and again and reading again the Report in KHIII, looks like Nomura hinted a lot at that time.

It's almost certain , Luxu passed the KB to Brain, but we dont know if he just used his body leaving him in Scala, or if Brain is concious.

I really hope Square Enix makes a Movie like II.8 of this, and DR too.

Im pretty sure Nomura wants explain the facts of UX and DR at the large fanbase, before KHIV. Or better, before the next Title

KeybladeLordSora

June 4, 2021 @ 04:57 pmOffline

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I'm still surprised that this whole thing ended with the X-Blade basically not existing outside of MoM mentioning 7 and 13.

Clue.Less

June 4, 2021 @ 05:07 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

I'm still surprised that this whole thing ended with the X-Blade basically not existing outside of MoM mentioning 7 and 13.

Why? No one seems to want to open Kingdom Hearts in UX.

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Tobi

June 4, 2021 @ 05:41 pmOffline

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Alexxio M.

also slight nitpick Mickey was in the battle with larxene and Marluxia so he would also be there to witness their last words (If you beat Luxord first that is)

I guess I should have rewatched the moment, but I thought Mickey was only released after the last fight there was finished.

Although I guess it's more logically that he reappeared after Luxords defeat.

KeybladeLordSora

June 4, 2021 @ 05:42 pmOffline

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Clue.Less

Why? No one seems to want to open Kingdom Hearts in UX.

That's why it's so odd.

Xehanort learns of the X-Blade via learning about the Keyblade War, yet both the one shown in UX and the one MoM talks about basically act like nothing remotely related to the X-Blade even happened or showed up.

The whole thing from 2013 to now act as if there was no X-Blade.

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kristi-swat

June 4, 2021 @ 05:56 pmOffline

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AleMustDie

It's different, Demyx is the MoM

BTW, after watching this Finale agaon and again and reading again the Report in KHIII, looks like Nomura hinted a lot at that time.

It's almost certain , Luxu passed the KB to Brain, but we dont know if he just used his body leaving him in Scala, or if Brain is concious.

I really hope Square Enix makes a Movie like II.8 of this, and DR too.

Im pretty sure Nomura wants explain the facts of UX and DR at the large fanbase, before KHIV. Or better, before the next Title


To me it can't be Brain who got No Name if he jumped to the future, because the eye would not have seen anything that happened from the destruction of DBT until when Brain appears in Scala. And since it is heavily hinted/implied that the book contained info about Brain's arrival, it is logical that No Name was already in Scala before .

kirabook

June 4, 2021 @ 06:02 pmOffline

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Well, as we've been speculating and MoM kind of outright stated, I don't think this is the first and only Keyblade War. It seems as though there was one before this. THAT is the one that split up the worlds and divided the X-blade into 7 and 13. Right?

Which bothers me a lot because that is the story I waned to see, but it feels like we just got a "repeat" of that war. Like MoM purposely orchestrating a repeat of what happened before for some reason. But it bugs me because now I want the story of THAT war which is what I thought we were getting in the first place.

Bah.

It kinda feels like "Ok THIS is the beginning of the series. Nah joking, there was actually more juicy stuff before this!!!" Happened with Bbs kinda. And now this. I just want the lore on stone tablets. Please Nomura, I need concrete informationnnnnnnnnnnn

KeybladeLordSora

June 4, 2021 @ 06:20 pmOffline

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kirabook

Well, as we've been speculating and MoM kind of outright stated, I don't think this is the first and only Keyblade War. It seems as though there was one before this. THAT is the one that split up the worlds and divided the X-blade into 7 and 13. Right?

That's the thing. MoM never brought up the X-Blade or any world splits. Just stuff about how the Keyblade War is never ending and stuff about Darkness. Not a single line in this entire story from X to UX has "X-Blade" in it.

Rainclouds

June 4, 2021 @ 06:22 pmOffline

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Perhaps Luxu never gave Brain the No Name.

[LIST]
[*]He took Brain's Body
[*]Brain's heart was sent into the future
[*]Luxu stayed behind and snuck around Scala Ad Caelum, recording its construction etc
[*]Luxu switched bodies with someone else, and gave the No Name to someone else
[*]Ephemer eventually dies
[*]Luxu continues to switch bodies and watching over everything
[*]Decades/centuries later, Brain arrives in Scala
[*]Brain lives for a few decades, having a child
[*]His grandchild, Eraqus is born, along with Xehanort
[*]Xehanort is sent to Destiny Islands
[*]Brain dies
[*]Xehanort is visted by his Heartless and goes to the future
[*]Xehanort comes back, then later arrived at Scala
[*]Just before, or during, or just after his Mark of Mastery, Xehanort meets MoM
[*]Xehanort completes his Mark of Mastery
[*]Maybe Odin and the others eventually die, Xehanort gets the No Name
[*]Decades pass
[*]Xehanort finds Ven, BBS happens
[/LIST]

So Brain never got the No Name, and he was not Luxu's apprentice as he was sent into the distant future.

Brain's keyblade was also the Master Defender, which he gave to Ephemer, so does he still have his own keyblade? Or does he get another one? Perhaps Luxu gives it to him some time after he arrived in Scala, but not in UX. so he might have been the master of it, but far into the future. Then maybe he gave it to Odin, or put it up on that wall before he died/after his grandson was born.

kirabook

June 4, 2021 @ 06:23 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

That's the thing. MoM never brought up the X-Blade or any world splits. Just stuff about how the Keyblade War is never ending and stuff about Darkness. Not a single line in this entire story from X to UX has "X-Blade" in it.


Right, I get that part. But MoM hasn't really told us ANYTHING about what happened before. He's vague as hell. Which leads me to believe the X-Blade had to do with his mysterious past and NOT the current war. That's why it's never mentioned or brought up in KHUX, this war wasn't about that. But the original original one, the one that probably started all this, was.

SuperNova

June 4, 2021 @ 07:00 pmOffline

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I'm not surprised that the MoM didn't mention the X-Blade since it didn't really have anything to do with Keyblade War 2 (Not the OG that MoM was in.) But makes me more curious as to why Xehanort knows about it or why he was so obssessed with it, unless Nomura is going to have Xehanort's obsession turn out to be because of the Player wanting to find it to unlock KH and see their friends again.

AdrianXXII

June 4, 2021 @ 07:05 pmOffline

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I think either the fairy tale and version of the Keyblade War we hear about is a combination of the two Wars into one after years have passed or the war we got simply isn't the one we had heard about. I think there's a chance it might be the former seeing the Grave Yard is where this version of the War took place, though it could be that two wars had been fought there.

AegisXIII

June 4, 2021 @ 07:10 pmOffline

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Do you guys remember when we thought the time travel in DDD was confusing?

Sign

June 4, 2021 @ 08:02 pmOffline

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AegisXIII

Do you guys remember when we thought the time travel in DDD was confusing?

Tbh the method utilized in the mainline series is more difficult for me to wrap my head around than what they used in UX lol

kirabook

June 4, 2021 @ 08:06 pmOffline

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The UX version of time travel is LOADS better. Them getting flung to the future with little to no memories is way better than Young Xehanort seemingly being able to do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

If time travel always worked like this, needing a device to shoot yourself forward into the future and not having your memories, it would've been WAY better.

Cumguardian69

June 4, 2021 @ 08:28 pmOffline

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time travel dont make sense because we dont know why it works, and why its limits exist. It also sucks because we don't get a numbered timeline. We just get "some days later" or abrupt but undefined timeskips.

Like...why were LEV sent further away then Eph and Sku? Why DIDN'T Eph get sent far into the future? How long did the destruction of DBT take? Was it a few moments like Skuld said, a week, months? Did LEV all get sent to the same time period? We just don't know.

Chie

June 4, 2021 @ 08:39 pmOffline

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Yes it seems that everything we knew about the "Keyblade War" in BBS etc. was based on a poor understanding of history by the characters (possibly due to how history had been shaped by MoM, who presented himself as a beginning-point). Given how ambiguous everything in UX is, I'd say we understand the cosmology of this world less than ever right now.

Noivern

June 4, 2021 @ 08:43 pmOffline

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Cumguardian69

Why DIDN'T Eph get sent far into the future?

Probably because he didn't want to. He just used the Lifeboat to survive the destruction of the world and then rebuilt so the others would have somewhere to return to. Might even be in the Book of Prophecies.

If no one stayed to rebuild Daybreak Town into Scala then the legacy of the Keyblade would probably been lost unless Luxu took into his own hands to do so, as there is no mention of the MoM anywhere else in story while it's stated by Sirgurd that Ephemer was the first Keyblade Master.

.. Which leads us to another problem: Ephemer is know as the first Master, so no one knew about what happened before. The way Sigurd talks about Brain makes it pretty clear he never mentioned the other Dandellions, much less the Foretellers who came before. It's understandeable from a narrative standpoint if Ephemer didn't want people to find out about that tragic outcome and go looking for Lux again, but it gets confusing when we think about Xehanort.

The whole fairytale Kairi heard from her Grandma still works, though, as children rebuilding the world with the light in their hearts is still coherent and it doesn't mention keyblades or anything.


The thing is, Dark Road is still unfinished, and now that we know Time Travel is a thing, everything is open. We have to treat UX ending as the canon flow of events but a lot can happen in the next updates.

I don't think we'll get an actual retelling of the whole timeline, but we should keep in mind that this is only one side of the story.

kirabook

June 4, 2021 @ 08:50 pmOffline

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I wonder about that. I kind of got the impression Ephemera didn't quite make it because everything fell down around them and his pod broke. At the same time, he clearly accepted his fate and rebuilt everything.

Sign

June 4, 2021 @ 09:06 pmOffline

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kirabook

I wonder about that. I kind of got the impression Ephemera didn't quite make it because everything fell down around them and his pod broke. At the same time, he clearly accepted his fate and rebuilt everything.

Same. Whenever when we saw the ark being used, someone had to be at the terminal to operate it. Nobody could do that for Ephemer and Skuld so they just got in and hoped for the best.

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ZeVaine

June 5, 2021 @ 12:52 amOffline

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I am more curious than ever to see how Dark Road plays out, because Xehanort's story/role in the series keeps getting more and more relevant with each game... even after his saga was said to be over.

I'm going to be honest though - this whole world of unreality/fiction thing.... I wonder if it's an excuse to escape from this rules of the Khuniverse as we know it, and allow KH universe characters to experience new realities where they don't have to carry with the enormous baggage of the Khloopniverse. Darkness and Light don't exist there, and what not...

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Idreamaboutcats

June 5, 2021 @ 01:46 amOffline

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Guys, there’s just one more thing I don’t understand. If Ephemer and Skuld managed to get back into the real world just as it was ending, why is it still “glitching” when they took a look outside?

Noivern

June 5, 2021 @ 01:53 amOffline

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Idreamaboutcats

Guys, there’s just one more thing I don’t understand. If Ephemer and Skuld managed to get back into the real world just as it was ending, why is it still “glitching” when they took a look outside?

I don't think we have any proper explanation for that, but I'd guess it's a visual representation of the virtual Daybreak Town being destroyed at the same time?

Willow A113

June 5, 2021 @ 02:02 amOffline

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Idreamaboutcats

Guys, there’s just one more thing I don’t understand. If Ephemer and Skuld managed to get back into the real world just as it was ending, why is it still “glitching” when they took a look outside?

Because it's all data. Every game in the series. Data Daybreak Town was just Data within Data.

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Idreamaboutcats

June 5, 2021 @ 02:33 amOffline

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Noivern

I don't think we have any proper explanation for that, but I'd guess it's a visual representation of the virtual Daybreak Town being destroyed at the same time?

Hold on, this might actually be true. I remember a short scene from KHII when SDG got confused and thought they were seeing double while in the gummi ship. They were making that remark about Twilight Town. It wouldn’t actually be too farfetched to see data manifesting outside a computer.

Chie

June 5, 2021 @ 02:37 amOffline

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Willow A113

Because it's all data.

Honestly yeah, not only is that literally true, but the digital desolation of virtual Daybreak Town only really got going after the KHUX application was announced to be shutting down irl. Now combine that with everything we said about reality/unreality/videogames earlier.

Willow A113

June 5, 2021 @ 04:13 amOffline

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Chie

Honestly yeah, not only is that literally true, but the digital desolation of virtual Daybreak Town only really got going after the KHUX application was announced to be shutting down irl. Now combine that with everything we said about reality/unreality/videogames earlier.

Well, I was joking. There is a lot of proof for the theory where I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. I wouldn't want it myself.

AdrianXXII

June 5, 2021 @ 04:46 amOffline

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Sign

Same. Whenever when we saw the ark being used, someone had to be at the terminal to operate it. Nobody could do that for Ephemer and Skuld so they just got in and hoped for the best.

It seems like that's what they did in the Data world as well und it seemed to have worked. Perhaps Brain preset the pods to launch once someone got in?

LoneFox

June 5, 2021 @ 10:56 amOffline

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Random idea: The machine was programmed to launch exactly 7 pods. Luxu added 8th one for Brain, but did not change the programming. Ephemer not launching is result of this, and it probably means that some people ended up in different places than what the plan was.

kirabook

June 5, 2021 @ 02:38 pmOffline

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I did have that thought. That one of the pods was programmed to fail and Ephemer was just unlucky.

KeybladeLordSora

June 5, 2021 @ 03:32 pmOffline

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I don't get why people are going on about how "Player influenced Ansem SoD's appearance" when Player's "canonical" look legit has nothing that would remotely scream "Ansem SoD"

Also, I don't think Player is gonna be part of Xehanort for his entire life anyway considering the short Xehanort memory sequence only goes up to his time in Scala.

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CozyTy

June 5, 2021 @ 04:25 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

as was pointed out in a reply above, that scene is the aftermath of the KBW at the end of back cover. That is Luxu's original face.

I don’t think that’s luxu’s original face because in KH 3 secret report 11, it is implied that the keyblade war unfolded exactly as written on the Lost Page. “The Keyblade the master entrusted to me must be bequeathed to another. Five Union leaders have been chosen from the surviving dandelions. I will pass the Keyblade to one of them, and then continue watching the future unfold.” Brain is one of the new Union leaders

Alpha Baymax

June 5, 2021 @ 04:41 pmOffline

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Rainclouds

Perhaps Luxu never gave Brain the No Name.

[LIST]
[*]He took Brain's Body
[*]Brain's heart was sent into the future
[*]Luxu stayed behind and snuck around Scala Ad Caelum, recording its construction etc
[*]Luxu switched bodies with someone else, and gave the No Name to someone else
[*]Ephemer eventually dies
[*]Luxu continues to switch bodies and watching over everything
[*]Decades/centuries later, Brain arrives in Scala
[*]Brain lives for a few decades, having a child
[*]His grandchild, Eraqus is born, along with Xehanort
[*]Xehanort is sent to Destiny Islands
[*]Brain dies
[*]Xehanort is visted by his Heartless and goes to the future
[*]Xehanort comes back, then later arrived at Scala
[*]Just before, or during, or just after his Mark of Mastery, Xehanort meets MoM
[*]Xehanort completes his Mark of Mastery
[*]Maybe Odin and the others eventually die, Xehanort gets the No Name
[*]Decades pass
[*]Xehanort finds Ven, BBS happens
[/LIST]

So Brain never got the No Name, and he was not Luxu's apprentice as he was sent into the distant future.

Brain's keyblade was also the Master Defender, which he gave to Ephemer, so does he still have his own keyblade? Or does he get another one? Perhaps Luxu gives it to him some time after he arrived in Scala, but not in UX. so he might have been the master of it, but far into the future. Then maybe he gave it to Odin, or put it up on that wall before he died/after his grandson was born.

That timeline makes sense to me, what I'm most interested in is what Adult Master Xehanort did. That's clearly a version of Xehanort that was never selected as a Seeker of Darkness for a specific reason and I think Dark Road is going to explain that.

Noivern

June 5, 2021 @ 04:44 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

I don't get why people are going on about how "Player influenced Ansem SoD's appearance" when Player's "canonical" look legit has nothing that would remotely scream "Ansem SoD"



What is that supposed canonical look? Are we talking about the Xehanort flashbacks? I haven't played Dark Road myself and only followed through the videos and translations from KHI, but I assumed if you have a KHUX account then the "player" defaults to our own character.

Sign

June 5, 2021 @ 05:50 pmOffline

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Noivern

What is that supposed canonical look? Are we talking about the Xehanort flashbacks? I haven't played Dark Road myself and only followed through the videos and translations from KHI, but I assumed if you have a KHUX account then the "player" defaults to our own character.

There are 2 UX flashbacks in DR, and Player only appeared in 1, which was the pre-rendered opening movie recapping KHX. SE used a generic male avatar to represent them. I don't know why people are dying on the hill of this being their definitive appearance when it's obvious nobody put any thought into it. Even if Player is canonized as male, you know they will not end up looking like that and will receive a proper design.

On a related note, the other flashback was of the Union leaders' (minus Lauriam) conversation on the hill, after Brain revealed that Ven's name wasn't on the list. Player was both not present and had no idea that this happened, so idk why Xehanort would have this memory.

AegisXIII

June 5, 2021 @ 05:55 pmOffline

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They might find a canonical way to explain the multiple Player's looks using the same way that xion is seen having a different face according to the person who looks at her.

Noivern

June 5, 2021 @ 06:08 pmOffline

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Sign

There are 2 UX flashbacks in DR, and Player only appeared in 1, which was the pre-rendered opening movie recapping KHX. SE used a generic male avatar to represent them. I don't know why people are dying on the hill of this being their definitive appearance when it's obvious nobody put any thought into it. Even if Player is canonized as male, you know they will not end up looking like that and will receive a proper design.

On a related note, the other flashback was of the Union leaders' (minus Lauriam) conversation on the hill, after Brain revealed that Ven's name wasn't on the list. Player was both not present and had no idea that this happened, so idk why Xehanort would have this memory.


But it's very likely, almost confirmed even, that player had one of the pieces of Darkness inside their heart. The other four would not be fooled otherwise, the acting was only about who was in control. So if that piece of Darkness was there, observing the Masters, then maybe that's how Xehanort had access to that memory.

KeybladeLordSora

June 5, 2021 @ 06:11 pmOffline

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Let's just get this out of the way.

Player would have no influence on Ansem or Xemnas' appearances because they basically have no true canon appearance, with the closest they have being the generic male avatar in the recap opening of Back Cover and the DR flashbacks.

I don't even understand why Ansem SoD's looks suddenly became important to these people. He really doesn't look that different from the other versions of Xehanort, and I'm pretty sure it was Riku's body that gave Ansem SoD a physical form in the first place.

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kristi-swat

June 5, 2021 @ 06:17 pmOffline

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CozyTy

I don’t think that’s luxu’s original face because in KH 3 secret report 11, it is implied that the keyblade war unfolded exactly as written on the Lost Page. “The Keyblade the master entrusted to me must be bequeathed to another. Five Union leaders have been chosen from the surviving dandelions. I will pass the Keyblade to one of them, and then continue watching the future unfold.” Brain is one of the new Union leaders

Report 12 though says that he passed the keyblade and NOW that he is keybladeless he will start body hopping. It’s quite fair currently to also assume the reports aren’t truthful:/

Sign

June 5, 2021 @ 06:26 pmOffline

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Noivern

But it's very likely, almost confirmed even, that player had one of the pieces of Darkness inside their heart. The other four would not be fooled otherwise, the acting was only about who was in control. So if that piece of Darkness was there, observing the Masters, then maybe that's how Xehanort had access to that memory.

A Darkness that has been assimilated into a vessel gets cut off from the collective. That's why the other four were fooled. Once Ven took that Darkness back into himself, its connection from the rest of its ilk was severed so they had no idea their cohort wasn't actually in Player.

Keep in mind, all 13 Darknesses have been accounted for to some extent, and the only one that is missing is in the real world.

Noivern

June 5, 2021 @ 06:32 pmOffline

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Sign

A Darkness that has been assimilated into a vessel gets cut off from the collective. That's why the other four were fooled. Once Ven took that Darkness back into himself, its connection from the rest of its ilk was severed so they had no idea their cohort wasn't actually in Player.

Keep in mind, all 13 Darknesses have been accounted for to some extent, and the only one that is missing is in the real world.

Wait.. I think I counted them wrong, then. I need to rewatch part 1 of the finale again as I assumed the number of Darkness was already counting the one in Ventus. lol

LoneFox

June 5, 2021 @ 07:30 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

Report 12 though says that he passed the keyblade and NOW that he is keybladeless he will start body hopping. It’s quite fair currently to also assume the reports aren’t truthful:/

Only in the sense that they are Observations, written from the point of view of someone who doesn't know what is happening behind the scenes. Luxu of course does know the answers to almost all of the questions he is asking. A lot of half-truths, but I don't believe there is anything in them that would make Pinoccio's nose grow.

Sign

Keep in mind, all 13 Darknesses have been accounted for to some extent, and the only one that is missing is in the real world.

And that is presumably the same one we saw meddling with the Queen of Hearts in DR. If so, it must have just escaped to somewhere in the real world.

Speaking of Darknesses, one thing that hasn't been discussed yet is them in the modern timeline. The chess game has seven black pieces. One of them is in the MoM for sure. Another is supposed to be in Luxu, but after the face reveal I find that somewhat suspicious. Then there are the four remaining foretellers. The Darknesses inside their hearts were supposed to be destroyed in the War, but the chess pieces suggest otherwise. Or have they acquired a new set? If Wreck-It Ralph is part of the fictional world, and the foretellers went there after the war, then Ephemer and the Player sent four Darknesses into the same place where the four foretellers were... In any case, this leaves Ava, Ven/Vanitas, and the one on loose as candidates for the last Darkness.

Sign

June 5, 2021 @ 08:20 pmOffline

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LoneFox

Only in the sense that they are Observations, written from the point of view of someone who doesn't know what is happening behind the scenes. Luxu of course does know the answers to almost all of the questions he is asking. A lot of half-truths, but I don't believe there is anything in them that would make Pinoccio's nose grow.


And that is presumably the same one we saw meddling with the Queen of Hearts in DR. If so, it must have just escaped to somewhere in the real world.

Speaking of Darknesses, one thing that hasn't been discussed yet is them in the modern timeline. The chess game has seven black pieces. One of them is in the MoM for sure. Another is supposed to be in Luxu, but after the face reveal I find that somewhat suspicious. Then there are the four remaining foretellers. The Darknesses inside their hearts were supposed to be destroyed in the War, but the chess pieces suggest otherwise. Or have they acquired a new set? If Wreck-It Ralph is part of the fictional world, and the foretellers went there after the war, then Ephemer and the Player sent four Darknesses into the same place where the four foretellers were... In any case, this leaves Ava, Ven/Vanitas, and the one on loose as candidates for the last Darkness.

I don't think they were destroyed in the war. The way MoM talks about it in the flashbacks indicates that he intended for all of the vessels to be around in the future so that they can be defeated by a new generation of Keyblade wielders strong enough to do so. That's why they repeat the part of the conversation about not having enough time at the start of the final update.

the red monster

June 5, 2021 @ 10:26 pmOffline

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Since the foretellers are vessels to darkness, it truly was ava that killed strelitzia. unless i'm missing something?
i know that it was actually ven, but it was ava's darkness that took control of him.
i hope i got it right.

Cumguardian69

June 6, 2021 @ 12:19 amOffline

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the red monster

Since the foretellers are vessels to darkness, it truly was ava that killed strelitzia. unless i'm missing something?
i know that it was actually ven, but it was ava's darkness that took control of him.
i hope i got it right.

Not necessarily. We dont know if the dorkness that bodyhopped Ven was Ava's prime dorkness or if it was a lesser dorkness.

AdrianXXII

June 6, 2021 @ 06:48 amOffline

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I just realized that they seemed to have either done away or forgotten that the whole game had originally been framed as a story Kairi's Grandma was telling Kairi.

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kristi-swat

June 6, 2021 @ 06:58 amOffline

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Cumguardian69

Not necessarily. We dont know if the dorkness that bodyhopped Ven was Ava's prime dorkness or if it was a lesser dorkness.

There should be 7 darknesses lying around if that was the case.

Alpha Baymax

June 6, 2021 @ 12:23 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Let's just get this out of the way.

Player would have no influence on Ansem or Xemnas' appearances because they basically have no true canon appearance, with the closest they have being the generic male avatar in the recap opening of Back Cover and the DR flashbacks.

I don't even understand why Ansem SoD's looks suddenly became important to these people. He really doesn't look that different from the other versions of Xehanort, and I'm pretty sure it was Riku's body that gave Ansem SoD a physical form in the first place.

Ansem Seeker of Darkness' design is arguably an anomaly because Xemnas was clearly modelled after Terra (or the other way round if you really want to get technical about origins) because Xemnas is the Nobody of Terra-Xehanort. Terra's heart clearly had no influence with Ansem Seeker of Darkness so I think his design is what an Adult Master Xehanort would have looked like.

gulava

June 6, 2021 @ 01:22 pmOffline

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the red monster

but it was ava's darkness that took control of him.

Just to clarify this, there are 13 darkness; the strongest 7 are meant to dwell in the lost masters's hearts whereas the other 6 are meant for the union leaders. MoM trapped(?) the 6 darknesses in data daybreak town for them to reside in the union leaders(+ ven), and the one that took control of Ven's body is one of them.

Noivern

June 6, 2021 @ 08:59 pmOffline

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AdrianXXII

I just realized that they seemed to have either done away or forgotten that the whole game had originally been framed as a story Kairi's Grandma was telling Kairi.

The story from her Grandma still applies to UX, it just wasn't show, really. She talks about how the children rebuilt the world after it was engulfed by darkness and resulted in the smaller, separte worlds we have now: After the original world is destroyed (final scene of Ephemer and Skuld looking at Daybreak town), said event probably occured where the children that lived elsewhere and had nothing to do with the whole X mess rebuilt the world.
Some time later, Ephemer is floating around in his Lifeboat in the ocean of the remains of Daybreak, which now most likely functions as a individual empty world. He rebuilts said world into Scala (I assume in a similar fashion to how Land of Departure turns into Castle Oblivion and the other way around, tinkering with the world's heart to reshapee it), yada yada.

Daybreak was purely the center of said original unified world, not the entire thing. They just did not bother to show any other part of the world besides the desert that becomes the Keyblade Graveyard, and those mountains where the Dandelions met with Ava.

I doubt we would ever get back into this unless they want to navigate around the mental image of said unified world. lol

Alpha Baymax

Ansem Seeker of Darkness' design is arguably an anomaly because Xemnas was clearly modelled after Terra (or the other way round if you really want to get technical about origins) because Xemnas is the Nobody of Terra-Xehanort. Terra's heart clearly had no influence with Ansem Seeker of Darkness so I think his design is what an Adult Master Xehanort would have looked like.


Personally I think they both look the same, it's just the outfit that changes (with SoD wearing the exact same fit as Hag Xehanort, just with his massive titties pushing the buttons open). But with Nomura's artstyle and everyone looking the same, does it even matter?

Ballad of Caius

June 7, 2021 @ 12:55 amOffline

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Alexxio M.

This is perfect
let’s have Axel roxas or xion be the one to open the door and do the correction of names thing.
also slight nitpick Mickey was in the battle with larxene and Marluxia so he would also be there to witness their last words (If you beat Luxord first that is)

Here’s an explanation of what the reference mark may mean from hmk

hope it can help the discussion

The idea of the Reference Mark representing Quadratum makes sense. The way I see it, the Reference Mark could be a Square that's separated, making it look Unreal. :p

KeybladeLordSora

June 7, 2021 @ 01:18 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius

The idea of the Reference Mark representing Quadratum makes sense. The way I see it, the Reference Mark could be a Square that's separated, making it look Unreal. :p

Engine 5

Xickin

June 7, 2021 @ 02:17 amOffline

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Every random crazy initial question I had when I first saw this (I've figured some out by now, but feel free to answer)
[SPOILER="Thoughts & Questions"]
[LIST=1]
[*]I always kind of theorized that the Keyblade War was a sham. It started FOR the Foretellers, leading me to think that either the Foretellers were well aware that it was for them and/or they would survive (hence why Ira and Aced switched demeanours so quickly in Back Cover ➔ Keyblade War, and why they weren’t too thrown back by being summoned by Luxu at the end of 3)
[*]Is MOM planning on taking the darkness of Pride into himself? When did these darknesses take root in the Foretellers? Luxu seemed very unaware, so it either hasn’t happened to him yet, or it’s very subtle, like even moreso than Ventus.
[*]What do you guys think the other 6 darknesses are? Any spitball ideas?
[*]So it was confirmed that Luxu is the traitor. In the passage it said that “You will misinterpret the words”, what do you think Luxu thought MoM meant when he said “Look, but don’t touch”?
[*]I wonder if a person willingly gives over their body, then whatever form of possession Luxu had over Brain and currently Xigbar, he’s able to act as if it was his own body, kind of like if you give into the darkness willingly (hence why Brain got his body and heart back in old Scala Ad Caelum).
[*]Do you think that final ark pod will play some significance? I know I do (like having the other 6 darknesses somehow escaping).
[*]That Nightmare Chirithy never really got explained to us, did it? Why was it ours? Whose is following us? What was with its parting words?
[*]What did that symbol mean when MoM said “A world of _”? Was it just a placeholder?
[*]So it’s implied that WE become Xehanort/ I’m not sure I like that. I liked my character, and just thinking about all the stuff MX will do makes me kind of sad. Also, we’ll play as Sora to kick our own ass.
[*]Who do you think the old dude in the robe is? I don’t think it’s Ephemer, only because chronologically it doesn’t make much sense. If Brain arrived and IS the grandfather of Eraqus, then it only makes sense that Ephemer and him would be in the same timeline, since Baby Xehanort would not have been born yet. You’d think if Ephemer heard Brain was back in town, he’d be like “What’s up, man!”. But also, I feel like Sigurd speaks as though Ephemer is ancient.
[*]Who do you think was approaching Ventus? Is it an implied MX?
[/LIST]
[/SPOILER]

Sign

June 7, 2021 @ 02:35 amOffline

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Xickin

Every random crazy initial question I had when I first saw this (I've figured some out by now, but feel free to answer)
[SPOILER="Thoughts & Questions"]
[LIST=1]
[*]I always kind of theorized that the Keyblade War was a sham. It started FOR the Foretellers, leading me to think that either the Foretellers were well aware that it was for them and/or they would survive (hence why Ira and Aced switched demeanours so quickly in Back Cover ➔ Keyblade War, and why they weren’t too thrown back by being summoned by Luxu at the end of 3)
[*]Is MOM planning on taking the darkness of Pride into himself? When did these darknesses take root in the Foretellers? Luxu seemed very unaware, so it either hasn’t happened to him yet, or it’s very subtle, like even moreso than Ventus.
[*]What do you guys think the other 6 darknesses are? Any spitball ideas?
[*]So it was confirmed that Luxu is the traitor. In the passage it said that “You will misinterpret the words”, what do you think Luxu thought MoM meant when he said “Look, but don’t touch”?
[*]I wonder if a person willingly gives over their body, then whatever form of possession Luxu had over Brain and currently Xigbar, he’s able to act as if it was his own body, kind of like if you give into the darkness willingly (hence why Brain got his body and heart back in old Scala Ad Caelum).
[*]Do you think that final ark pod will play some significance? I know I do (like having the other 6 darknesses somehow escaping).
[*]That Nightmare Chirithy never really got explained to us, did it? Why was it ours? Whose is following us? What was with its parting words?
[*]What did that symbol mean when MoM said “A world of _”? Was it just a placeholder?
[*]So it’s implied that WE become Xehanort/ I’m not sure I like that. I liked my character, and just thinking about all the stuff MX will do makes me kind of sad. Also, we’ll play as Sora to kick our own ass.
[*]Who do you think the old dude in the robe is? I don’t think it’s Ephemer, only because chronologically it doesn’t make much sense. If Brain arrived and IS the grandfather of Eraqus, then it only makes sense that Ephemer and him would be in the same timeline, since Baby Xehanort would not have been born yet. You’d think if Ephemer heard Brain was back in town, he’d be like “What’s up, man!”. But also, I feel like Sigurd speaks as though Ephemer is ancient.
[*]Who do you think was approaching Ventus? Is it an implied MX?
[/LIST]
[/SPOILER]

4. Luxu definitely saw a loophole and violated MoM's orders. I mean, technically he didn't interfere directly with the Union leaders, but he acted in ways that had ripple effects that impacted them.

8. No, it's not a placeholder. If it were, it's likely they would use _____ as they did in KH2 with the word "photo", or OOO which is like the Japanese equivalent of ***. That being said, apparently this reference point has a number of meanings so it's anyone's guess what it means in this scenario.

9. There's a lot of debate over this right now. The word used in the dialogue commonly means "to dissolve" so people are understanding it to mean "Player's heart became Xehanort's heart" aka reincarnation. This is also the more popular take because it results in maximum meme-age, which is this fandom's priority. However, as AR-numbers explained in his thread as well as in goldpanner's translation and a number of Japanese fans' own interpretation, it's possible it's similar to the Ven-Sora scenario but not as pronounced, if that makes sense.

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HamHamJ

June 7, 2021 @ 03:10 amOffline

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I don't see much functional difference between the two. Unless Player's Heart pops out and suddenly shows up in a future game, the facts are that the Player no longer exists and Xehanort has their (partial, vague) memories.

Zettaflare

June 7, 2021 @ 03:12 amOffline

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I think the old man could be Sigurd. Sigurd himself might be around Brain's age group. And if Brain is truly Eraqus' grandfather Sigurd would potentially be an old man by the time Xehanort was born.

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ZeVaine

June 7, 2021 @ 03:20 amOffline

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I have no issue with the player reincarnating to some extent as Xehanort. It ties wonderfully back to Kh1 and the parallels between Sora and Xehanort - having weird thoughts lately, and having dreams of other people. That connections to the past and others have always driven or influenced the desires of their new hosts. If Xehanort's situation is parallel to Sora's, where Ven's heart was still technically, I'm curious if then Player's heart should also released lol.

However, in all honesty, I think it's implied it's a significantly different scenario - and in Xehanort's case it wasn't just harboring a weakened heart within his, it was actually completely reincarnated... and what Xehanort sees in his dreams, are simply strong memories etched into the remains of the heart used to form that one that is Xehanort... an expression we've seen used quite a few times, that I think would fit here. The story would suggest the former situation, but it makes more sense in terms of plot holes in the latter explanation.

Dark Road, plz. You're our only hope for some clarification on the Xehanort saga. I hope a Nomura interview happens at some point, too lol.

Sephiroth0812

June 7, 2021 @ 10:07 amOffline

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Sign

9. There's a lot of debate over this right now. The word used in the dialogue commonly means "to dissolve" so people are understanding it to mean "Player's heart became Xehanort's heart" aka reincarnation. This is also the more popular take because it results in maximum meme-age, which is this fandom's priority. However, as AR-numbers explained in his thread as well as in goldpanner's translation and a number of Japanese fans' own interpretation, it's possible it's similar to the Ven-Sora scenario but not as pronounced, if that makes sense.

Correct me if I remember this wrong but didn't Ienzo say something related to the issue with the three hearts inside Sora (Ven, Roxas and Xion) being somehow "integrated" into his own yet also each of them having their own distinctive "box"?

I also remembered that Sora/Ven or Sora/Roxas might not be the only possible example as we have had a similar issue yet with different outcomes or overall properties also with Terra/Eraqus and possibly even Terra/Xehanort despite the latter being an unwilling and forced "union".

The way how different hearts can "combine", "melt together" or "join" seems to have as many different possibilities and procedures as there are Xehanorts and if the joint hearts can be split again into the original individuals seems to be also hinge on different circumstances and the personalities involved.

Then there's of course also the issue with Xehanort being capable of breaking off parts/fragments of his own heart and placing those into other people or empty vessels as he chooses apparently without any negative consequences for his overall main being.

Alpha Baymax

June 7, 2021 @ 10:22 amOffline

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Zettaflare

I think the old man could be Sigurd. Sigurd himself might be around Brain's age group. And if Brain is truly Eraqus' grandfather Sigurd would potentially be an old man by the time Xehanort was born.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Sign

June 7, 2021 @ 03:16 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Correct me if I remember this wrong but didn't Ienzo say something related to the issue with the three hearts inside Sora (Ven, Roxas and Xion) being somehow "integrated" into his own yet also each of them having their own distinctive "box"?

I also remembered that Sora/Ven or Sora/Roxas might not be the only possible example as we have had a similar issue yet with different outcomes or overall properties also with Terra/Eraqus and possibly even Terra/Xehanort despite the latter being an unwilling and forced "union".

The way how different hearts can "combine", "melt together" or "join" seems to have as many different possibilities and procedures as there are Xehanorts and if the joint hearts can be split again into the original individuals seems to be also hinge on different circumstances and the personalities involved.

Then there's of course also the issue with Xehanort being capable of breaking off parts/fragments of his own heart and placing those into other people or empty vessels as he chooses apparently without any negative consequences for his overall main being.

Great points!

Noivern

June 7, 2021 @ 03:48 pmOffline

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My issue with Player's heart simply resting inside Xehanort's instead of being literally reborn into him is that this opens waaaay too many doors in the overal narrative.

For Sora and Ventus, at least we know Ventus was dying in Destiny Islands where Sora was born (at least for now. Retcons are getting scarier) at the very same time, so there's that going for.

Player died in the distant past in Data Daybreak Town while Xehanort was born a unknow amount of time later; at least a few decades later, but most likely at least a century later.

While the whole thing has more dept to it than we currently know considering Xehanort was moved to another world for unknow reasons, as of now it feels too chaotic to me.

If it was a case of reincarnation then sure, it makes sense. Heart went away and reincarnated after a unknow amount of time, pretty akin to real world interpretations of reincarnation.

But if it's a case similar to Ventus, Eraqus and so on, then that opens up a whole can of worms where literally every character could be harboring a heart of a departed individual for plot convenience, lol.

However, that brings another interesting question: maybe Strelitzia and the Nameless Star (that people like to call Stella) could still be the same person; Strelitzia actually died, so maybe she also reincarnated and the Star is what remains of her first life after her heart became another's; similar to how the Avatar Spirit works in Avatar/LoK?

KeybladeLordSora

June 7, 2021 @ 03:52 pmOffline

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Whatever the case may be, it's clear that outside of flashbacks to Player in Dark Road and possible X-Blade knowledge, Player has no other real impact on Xehanort, who essentially went his whole life without them affecting him compared to Sora being affected by Ven and Roxas.

And out of universe it's just some way of moving to Dark Road

Cumguardian69

June 7, 2021 @ 04:02 pmOffline

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PlAyEr being Xeanbort also doesn't work because we're a faceless cog in the machine all things considered. There's no guarantee that xX_HeartLessBuster_Xx was the one that didn't perish in the Keyblade War. Remember, Ephemer was LATE to pick us up into UX.

And we know time travel works that you can do only what was etched in your heart, otherwise you get whisked away to Unreality (and killed by Yozora the Key Wraith lmao)

Ballad of Caius

June 7, 2021 @ 04:03 pmOffline

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Random observation: Light is technically the villain of the next Phase of KINGDOM HEARTS. It's just a Light that is willingly letting itself be possessed by Darkness in order to get rid of it.

Cumguardian69

June 7, 2021 @ 04:18 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

Random observation: Light is technically the villain of the next Phase of KINGDOM HEARTS. It's just a Light that is willingly letting itself be possessed by Darkness in order to get rid of it.

You could even call it...a false light...???

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Tobi

June 7, 2021 @ 06:40 pmOffline

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Noivern

However, that brings another interesting question: maybe Strelitzia and the Nameless Star (that people like to call Stella) could still be the same person; Strelitzia actually died, so maybe she also reincarnated and the Star is what remains of her first life after her heart became another's; similar to how the Avatar Spirit works in Avatar/LoK?

Would be a way, although I see it more the case for Strelitzia and Kairi. Why? Plot and drama reasons. Imagine Lauriam and Elrena finding out that their Nobodies essentially bullied the nobody of his sister reincarnation. Tbh, I don't want to see other cases like Players popping up left and right and I guess that way Strelitzia couldn't come back as herself, but if there is one more case, I hope it's something which is going to have a big impact.

Also Strelitzia was on that list and was supposed to be someone with a pure/ strong (don't remember which one) heart. Her reincarnating as a PoH would make some sense. I suspect anyway that a Darkness* was influencing Xehanort towards doing the stuff he did, so Players influence on Xehanort was limited because of this.

*I think they didn't told us what happened to the Darkness, which was supposed to control Player, so I assume the option should be atleast viable that that one went with him (Player) when reincarnated.


I don't now if it was brought up already, but because of the Player-Xehanort connection this would be one more potential point for Subject X being Skuld. There is the question why it happened only then and not before (although it would probably work for the others aswell), but if Xehanort would begin dreaming about Players memories about Skuld, it would allow her to materialise in Radiant Garden. If my memories serve me right Subject X was found at dawn on some random day... so atleast for me it seems like that Xehanort caused her appearance.

But this would only work if something was blocking that option before Apprentice Xehanort, because why wouldn't he dream about the others before?

Sign

June 7, 2021 @ 07:19 pmOffline

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Noivern

However, that brings another interesting question: maybe Strelitzia and the Nameless Star (that people like to call Stella) could still be the same person; Strelitzia actually died, so maybe she also reincarnated and the Star is what remains of her first life after her heart became another's; similar to how the Avatar Spirit works in Avatar/LoK?

There's a theory going around that Strelitzia's heart took refuge in Lauriam's, which might explain why he had that dream of her and felt her presence.

KeybladeLordSora

June 8, 2021 @ 12:19 amOffline

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So I'm guessing the NA UX account just gave up?

Luminary

June 8, 2021 @ 01:46 amOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

So I'm guessing the NA UX account just gave up?

It’s probably going to release around the 15th to give about the same amount of time between release and the end of service as the Japanese version. I doubt they’ll say anything until right before it releases.

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zander1995

June 8, 2021 @ 08:47 pmOffline

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LoneFox

Yes. Ven landed a most a few weeks before creation of Vanitas (which is the same time as Sora's birth). We don't know the exact time where the other two ended up.

Ven would have been 12 at the time of the creation of Vanitas, but looks younger in UX than he was during the creation in BBS. It's more likely he was found a year or two before the creation of Vanitas rather than weeks before.

Edit: Unrelated to the above, but I believe Ava was the blanketed figure Luxu put into the pod. Now where and when she ended up is yet to be seen...

Alexxio M.

June 9, 2021 @ 12:18 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius

The idea of the Reference Mark representing Quadratum makes sense. The way I see it, the Reference Mark could be a Square that's separated, making it look Unreal. :p


KeybladeLordSora

Engine 5

Thanks I’m glad the reference mark was able to help continue the discussion. And amazing pun at the end it’s clever. ?

KudoTsurugi

June 9, 2021 @ 01:15 amOffline

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Sign

There's a lot of debate over this right now. The word used in the dialogue commonly means "to dissolve" so people are understanding it to mean "Player's heart became Xehanort's heart" aka reincarnation. This is also the more popular take because it results in maximum meme-age, which is this fandom's priority. However, as AR-numbers explained in his thread as well as in goldpanner's translation and a number of Japanese fans' own interpretation, it's possible it's similar to the Ven-Sora scenario but not as pronounced, if that makes sense.

Personally, I’m in the camp that Player was shown the visions of Xehanort by Chirithy as an example of what a relatively new heart’s life could be like, rather than it being their predestined future.

I don’t mind Xehanort having dreams of the past(many a story have had characters seeing dreams of the future so why not?), I’d just rather it be from an outsider-looking-in perspective rather than having a direct connection to Player.

LoneFox

June 9, 2021 @ 05:31 amOffline

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zander1995

Ven would have been 12 at the time of the creation of Vanitas, but looks younger in UX than he was during the creation in BBS. It's more likely he was found a year or two before the creation of Vanitas rather than weeks before.

How old must a kid be to be responsible enough to have a keyblade? Or, in real world, to handle a firearm?

In old books of the genre started by Mark Twain the answer is about 11, and those kids are usually significantly more mature than what is typical for their age, since they were written to be role models.

So, I'm assuming Ven became a wielder at age 11. It's clear that he had been one for at least a few months when we first saw him in UX. He was below average, but not a complete rookie. Then he was a union leader for about half a year. At the beginning of BBS he is 12. This doesn't leave more than a couple of months at most between his arrival and creation of Vanitas.

Sign

June 9, 2021 @ 08:36 amOffline

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Global stealth updated. No tweet or notice because of course there isn't.

Continue discussions here, I'll have the video up asap.



Also, does anyone else feel like this dialogue is rather wonky?

GreyouTT

June 9, 2021 @ 08:49 amOffline

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Global players waking up to this ghost update tomorrow

Sephiroth0812

June 9, 2021 @ 09:04 amOffline

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Sign

Global stealth updated. No tweet or notice because of course there isn't.

Continue discussions here, I'll have the video up asap.



Also, does anyone else feel like this dialogue is rather wonky?

I keep forgetting that there is an actual official English version of Ux that supposedly gives official translations (which are often more stupid or at least more stiff than what [USER=73968]@Goldpanner[/USER] gives us).

Since I only ever follow the story cutscenes alone perhaps that's another reason why I keep forgetting the official English version exists and tend to largely ignore it.

Isn't that more often the case than not when it comes to the "official" translations? "Special Attack Bonus" rings a bell here, lol.

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kristi-swat

June 9, 2021 @ 09:07 amOffline

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Sign

Global stealth updated. No tweet or notice because of course there isn't.

Continue discussions here, I'll have the video up asap.



Also, does anyone else feel like this dialogue is rather wonky?

waiting for you to save us :D I need to do a 1:1 comparison between Goldpanner's translation and the official one.

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kristi-swat

June 9, 2021 @ 09:31 amOffline

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so chirithy says the heart will melt. I assume this to be merging and not reincarnation.
the dialogue with brain and luxu didn't make it more clear :/

Sign

June 9, 2021 @ 11:08 amOffline

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god this thing took longer than expected



also, however many hours later, the notice went up lol

kristi-swat

so chirithy says the heart will melt. I assume this to be merging and not reincarnation.
the dialogue with brain and luxu didn't make it more clear :/

Yeah, that's how I read it as well. The line seems to imply that this "brand new heart" exists separately and Player's heart joins it rather than becomes it outright?

I feel like we're not really closer to pinpointing what exactly happens lol. They're no strangers to taking liberties with the script when needed yet kept this line very literal? I get the feeling the localization team doesn't know for sure either.

The_Echo

June 9, 2021 @ 11:22 amOffline

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Sephiroth0812

I keep forgetting that there is an actual official English version of Ux that supposedly gives official translations (which are often more stupid or at least more stiff than what [USER=73968]@Goldpanner[/USER] gives us).

Since I only ever follow the story cutscenes alone perhaps that's another reason why I keep forgetting the official English version exists and tend to largely ignore it.

Since Goldpanner (and others) has managed to consistently deliver faster, and often more-accurate translations than the people being paid to do it, I also really haven't had a reason to pay attention to the official localization.

Its various, er, 'creative liberties' haven't helped its case.
It's a pipe dream but I hope if/when UXDR gets a remake, they re-translate instead of copy-pasting the existing one

Alpha Baymax

June 9, 2021 @ 11:38 amOffline

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Sign

Global stealth updated. No tweet or notice because of course there isn't.

It's things like this that make me glad that Dark Road is ending prematurely. Simultaneous releases should be an industry standard by now especially for a series as popular as Kingdom Hearts.

Sign

June 9, 2021 @ 12:06 pmOffline

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Interesting that the reference mark did end up being a censor.

maryadavies

June 9, 2021 @ 12:50 pmOffline

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Alpha; I agree with you, since they've been doing that with the FF MMO's all this time. (FFXI and XIV usually get updates, all translated and everything, about the same time tho there's a slight delay b/c of time zones)

Anyway yikes, sad ending and we'll have to see how it pans out.

Nukara

June 9, 2021 @ 02:09 pmOffline

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I was the type of person who really believed that the player had re-incarnated into, Xehanort.?
If this dark-haired woman is Xehanort's mother, can you call her Mothernort? ?

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CozyTy

June 9, 2021 @ 02:09 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

Report 12 though says that he passed the keyblade and NOW that he is keybladeless he will start body hopping. It’s quite fair currently to also assume the reports aren’t truthful:/

why wouldn't that be truthful ?
In the same Report 12

" And now, Keybladeless, I must depart this land to fulfill my final task. This means casting my own body aside and sojourning my heart in vessel after vessel—as many as it takes. But I will continue gazing upon each passing era, one unto the next. In time, be it years or decades, centuries or millennia, I will meet the Five once more. Somewhere in this cyclical history of bequeathing, a chosen one will appear and reenact the Keyblade War. When this scapegoat arrives and takes my Keyblade in hand, this will be the time to take the stage and finish my role. The Lost Masters will awaken."

In KH 3 secret ending, remember,Xigbar meets the four foretellers (five but Ava did not show up) they question Luxu's physical appearance to which he replies: " i havent heard that name in a while.......Some time ago, i had to cast my old form away" (Funny how Yozora questions Sora for recognizing who he is because Yozora states it's not what looks like and vice versa...and no, im not connecting this to the report)

now in Secret Report 13: "[I]It seems this body, this name will be my last. The lives I have lived over the ages could fill volumes, but for now, I must focus on what matters most.The Keyblade has been successfully passed down, generation to generation, and it seems a Keyblade Master devoted to the darkness may finally arise. Until now, I have watched over the course of events from a distance. Perhaps the time has come to intervene. I need only play the role of a fool desirous of the Keyblade's power. I will don the mask of his ally in order to keep watch over my Keyblade from close by." If you have time to watch this , all of "Xigbar" actions seem to align with watching events play out up to the point of KH 3 Finale/ending

And finally, in Secret report 13 last sentence states: "[I]But now, at last, the Keyblade War has begun, and Kingdom Hearts will open—a true and complete Kingdom Hearts, born of the clash between darkness and light. I will soon be reunited with my old companions, and in that moment my long vigil will reach its end. He will return..."
[/I][/I]

KeybladeLordSora

June 9, 2021 @ 03:12 pmOffline

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Sign

Interesting that the reference mark did end up being a censor.

Wait really?

No significance at all?

Moonlight Aqua

June 9, 2021 @ 03:26 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

the dialogue with brain and luxu didn't make it more clear :/

Actually it kinda did. The part where he said "too bad you only have one lifetime."

For me, it implies that Brain and Luxu made a deal of some sorts, where he was ends up in the future Scala and Luxu (not sure if that's he's actual face) looking like Brain. (Tbh looks a lot like Zexion)

Btw, I'm not sure but do they ever explain where little Zexion came from? All I can find is that he was an orphan and I'm like, that's a bit suspicious if you ask me.

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kristi-swat

June 9, 2021 @ 03:34 pmOffline

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CozyTy

why wouldn't that be truthful ?
In the same Report 12

" And now, Keybladeless, I must depart this land to fulfill my final task. This means casting my own body aside and sojourning my heart in vessel after vessel—as many as it takes. But I will continue gazing upon each passing era, one unto the next. In time, be it years or decades, centuries or millennia, I will meet the Five once more. Somewhere in this cyclical history of bequeathing, a chosen one will appear and reenact the Keyblade War. When this scapegoat arrives and takes my Keyblade in hand, this will be the time to take the stage and finish my role. The Lost Masters will awaken."

In KH 3 secret ending, remember,Xigbar meets the four foretellers (five but Ava did not show up) they question Luxu's physical appearance to which he replies: " i havent heard that name in a while.......Some time ago, i had to cast my old form away" (Funny how Yozora questions Sora for recognizing who he is because Yozora states it's not what looks like and vice versa...and no, im not connecting this to the report)

now in Secret Report 13: "[I]It seems this body, this name will be my last. The lives I have lived over the ages could fill volumes, but for now, I must focus on what matters most.The Keyblade has been successfully passed down, generation to generation, and it seems a Keyblade Master devoted to the darkness may finally arise. Until now, I have watched over the course of events from a distance. Perhaps the time has come to intervene. I need only play the role of a fool desirous of the Keyblade's power. I will don the mask of his ally in order to keep watch over my Keyblade from close by." If you have time to watch this , all of "Xigbar" actions seem to align with watching events play out up to the point of KH 3 Finale/ending

And finally, in Secret report 13 last sentence states: "[I]But now, at last, the Keyblade War has begun, and Kingdom Hearts will open—a true and complete Kingdom Hearts, born of the clash between darkness and light. I will soon be reunited with my old companions, and in that moment my long vigil will reach its end. He will return..."
[/I][/I]

Well the end of report 12 is more a foreshadowing of events to come, what he expects to happen. The part where he describes what happened at the end of the daybreak town doesn't really go according to the final chapter of UX.
So I'm not trying to say that he is lying on his reports, but maybe he is writing partial truths.

Sign

June 9, 2021 @ 03:45 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Wait really?

No significance at all?

Not unless they tell us it does.

[ATTACH type="full"]14020[/ATTACH]
Moonlight Aqua

Btw, I'm not sure but do they ever explain where little Zexion came from? All I can find is that he was an orphan and I'm like, that's a bit suspicious if you ask me.

He's local to Radiant Garden. His parents died and Ansem took him in.

Sephiroth0812

June 9, 2021 @ 03:46 pmOffline

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Moonlight Aqua

Actually it kinda did. The part where he said "too bad you only have one lifetime."

For me, it implies that Brain and Luxu made a deal of some sorts, where he was ends up in the future Scala and Luxu (not sure if that's he's actual face) looking like Brain. (Tbh looks a lot like Zexion)

Btw, I'm not sure but do they ever explain where little Zexion came from? All I can find is that he was an orphan and I'm like, that's a bit suspicious if you ask me.

I'm inclined to believe as well that Luxu and Brain came to some sort of agreement.
The way Luxu words it seems to indicate that he thinks losing Brain's intellect by having him stuck in the crumbling world would be a waste so while he might indeed take Brain's body as his first vessel and yeeted Brain's heart out like Ansem SoD did in KH 1 with Riku and Master Xehanort attempted in BBS with Terra he did not do so aimlessly but actually flung Brain's heart into the future using his own powers.

Maybe Luxu even bestowed the No Name to Brain and "stored" it somehow inside his heart to send it with him, similar to how Aqua sent her Keyblade (with her armor) with Terra-Xehanort in an attempt to save Terra at the end of Final Episode.

What exactly caused Brain to regain a physical form in Scala ad Caelum during the time of Sigurd is another matter that can't yet be fully made sense of, but considering that only hearts can travel through time I think it is safe to assume that the "body" or vessel Brain inhabits in that scene does not have to be, or rather can't be the original body he resided in during the era of Daybreak Town where the meeting with Luxu took place simply because he couldn't have taken it with him.
So Luxu inhabiting the original body would not mean the end for Brain nor does it have to mean that Brain's heart would be a captive in its own body because Luxu took over.
That Xehanort did this with Terra is only "Nort style" and does not have to be the case with all Keyblade Masters who use the heart transfer technique.

Of course, there's also the possibility that Brain escaped via Luxu's own variant of foregoing the end of the world and their hearts actually share one body, not unlike Sora did with Ventus' and later Roxas' and Xion's hearts.
The difference would be that they either take turns in controlling the body in agreement with each other depending on who has an urgent task to do or Luxu's heart simply stays inside Brain doing his role of watching through his willing host's eyes without actively exercising control.

KeybladeLordSora

June 9, 2021 @ 04:08 pmOffline

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Sign

Not unless they tell us it does.

[ATTACH type="full" alt="1623253488828.png"]14020[/ATTACH]

He's local to Radiant Garden. His parents died and Ansem took him in.

Welp, back to thinking it's just Square trying to hide the word "Fantasy"

LoneFox

June 9, 2021 @ 04:58 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

I'm inclined to believe as well that Luxu and Brain came to some sort of agreement.
The way Luxu words it seems to indicate that he thinks losing Brain's intellect by having him stuck in the crumbling world would be a waste so while he might indeed take Brain's body as his first vessel and yeeted Brain's heart out like Ansem SoD did in KH 1 with Riku and Master Xehanort attempted in BBS with Terra he did not do so aimlessly but actually flung Brain's heart into the future using his own powers.

Could someone explain to me why people keep suggesting these theories where Luxu takes over Brain's body? Secret report #12 clearly says that Luxu gave away his keyblade before he did any body-hopping. It does not just mention this fact, but downright emphasizes it. The guy on the face reveal scene still has the keyblade. Therefore, it cannot be Luxu in Brain's body. Isn't this very simple and clear logic?

Cumguardian69

June 9, 2021 @ 04:59 pmOffline

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You know what I find funny? Assuming word is Fantasy (like Final Fantasy)...how tf does that even make sense in KH where the person bends to the world order? Bahahaha what nonsense. Nomura wrote himself into another corner that will get solved by the Sora Power Hour...

rokudamia2

June 9, 2021 @ 05:19 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

so chirithy says the heart will melt. I assume this to be merging and not reincarnation.
the dialogue with brain and luxu didn't make it more clear :/

That's not how I took it. I took it as it would be melted into a new heart. As in they would make a new heart. Like forging, Same metal different shape.

Sign

June 9, 2021 @ 05:29 pmOffline

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LoneFox

Could someone explain to me why people keep suggesting these theories where Luxu takes over Brain's body? Secret report #12 clearly says that Luxu gave away his keyblade before he did any body-hopping. It does not just mention this fact, but downright emphasizes it. The guy on the face reveal scene still has the keyblade. Therefore, it cannot be Luxu in Brain's body. Isn't this very simple and clear logic?

People seem to have come to the conclusion that Luxu hijack Brain's body and yeeted his heart or taught him how to travel to the future somehow. There's precedence for the first part (see: Ansem SoD and Riku) but it's the time travel element that is questionable. Brain is under the impression that whatever method he used would have the same results as Lauriam and the others. Getting forced out of his own body and randomly shooting off into time and space probably wouldn't lead him to come to that conclusion?

I think it's too soon to tell right now without more context.

The_Echo

June 9, 2021 @ 06:42 pmOffline

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Somehow Brain made two more pods appear for Ephemera and Skuld in the data world.
There were only two pods remaining in the real world when he did that.
I wonder if maybe they're the same pods? Or perhaps new data copies?

That being the case, Player's pod was left unused. So perhaps that was pulled into the real world in a similar way, for Brain to use.

bambii

June 9, 2021 @ 07:05 pmOffline

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The_Echo

That being the case, Player's pod was left unused. So perhaps that was pulled into the real world in a similar way, for Brain to use.

Right. The scene in which Ephemer/Skuld leave the data world makes a point to center the camera briefly on the remaining pod. It gives strength to the hypothesis that Luxu and Brain came to an agreement in which Luxu would take Brain’s body and move through time linearly, take Brain’s hat with him to serve as a medium sometime in the future, and bring in the remaining data pod into the real world to send Brain’s heart forward in time.

Sign

June 9, 2021 @ 07:19 pmOffline

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guess who just tweeted about the finale

12 hours after it went live

AdrianXXII

June 9, 2021 @ 07:28 pmOffline

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Sign

guess who just tweeted about the finale

12 hours after it went live

They clearly care a lot.

The_Echo

June 9, 2021 @ 07:36 pmOffline

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Sign

guess who just tweeted about the finale

12 hours after it went live

It's honestly baffling to me that they just gave up the moment the money stopped.
You'd think maybe they'd at least be concerned about the PR here.

Global died as it lived, I guess.

Clue.Less

June 9, 2021 @ 07:40 pmOffline

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Sign

guess who just tweeted about the finale

12 hours after it went live

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the red monster

June 9, 2021 @ 08:08 pmOffline

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Clue.Less

[ATTACH type="full"]14021[/ATTACH]

Thanks for reminding me why master of masters it the best character in the series

Ballad of Caius

June 9, 2021 @ 08:34 pmOffline

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The_Echo

It's honestly baffling to me that they just gave up the moment the money stopped.
You'd think maybe they'd at least be concerned about the PR here.

Global died as it lived, I guess.

It baffles me they don't even use a social media scheduler. Like, if you knew the update was going live at, say, 11pm, you could have scheduled a tweet to come exactly at that time. Or before.

Oracle Spockanort

June 9, 2021 @ 08:48 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

It baffles me they don't even use a social media scheduler. Like, if you knew the update was going live at, say, 11pm, you could have scheduled a tweet to come exactly at that time. Or before.

You don’t even need a social media scheduler anymore. Twitter lets you do a scheduled tweet directly through them now instead of using TweetDeck or a third-party.

Chaser

June 9, 2021 @ 08:50 pmOffline

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Y’all really had expectations of an abysmal community manager doing things in a timely manner for this game after SE could no longer exploit people for hundreds of dollars every two days?

GreyouTT

June 9, 2021 @ 10:52 pmOffline

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hey wait a minute

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HamHamJ

June 9, 2021 @ 10:59 pmOffline

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Sign

god this thing took longer than expected



also, however many hours later, the notice went up lol


Yeah, that's how I read it as well. The line seems to imply that this "brand new heart" exists separately and Player's heart joins it rather than becomes it outright?

I feel like we're not really closer to pinpointing what exactly happens lol. They're no strangers to taking liberties with the script when needed yet kept this line very literal? I get the feeling the localization team doesn't know for sure either.


If you melt an ice cube and pour it into a glass of water, and then frieze it into an ice cube, is it the same ice cube you started out with?

I reiterate my point that this debate seems to just be pure semantics this side of the ship of Thesius.

Oracle Spockanort

June 9, 2021 @ 10:59 pmOffline

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GreyouTT

hey wait a minute

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Can you believe it. These words Nomura said meant absolutely nothing now suddenly mean everything.

bambii

June 9, 2021 @ 11:29 pmOffline

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Guys, this makes zero sense.

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So... Darkness (originally 13 in number) gave up their form during a long battle, but realized they'd lose individual will if formless. Then some of them spread out and developed form—the origin of the Heartless—and the rest of the formless developed... individual will? These are blatantly contradictory statements. Did the localization team just phone it in? Or am I missing something?

The_Echo

June 9, 2021 @ 11:47 pmOffline

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bambii

Did the localization team just phone it in?

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HamHamJ

June 9, 2021 @ 11:54 pmOffline

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bambii

Guys, this makes zero sense.

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So... Darkness (originally 13 in number) gave up their form during a long battle, but realized they'd lose individual will if formless. Then some of them spread out and developed form—the origin of the Heartless—and the rest of the formless developed... individual will? These are blatantly contradictory statements. Did the localization team just phone it in? Or am I missing something?

No that's pretty much the same as the fan translations from what I can see.

bambii

June 10, 2021 @ 12:16 amOffline

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HamHamJ

No that's pretty much the same as the fan translations from what I can see.

No, drastically different implications.

Everglow's translation:
"However, when throwing away its physical form, it also loses sight of its purpose [...] Those darknesses don't have their own form, so they aim to increase their number, taking them from one to many. They've already increased, and the darkness that has a derived form is a Heartless. And those that don't have a form became individuals, waiting to possess people with strong hearts."

Goldplanner's translation:
"You see, I realized that when they threw away their form, they lost their own consciousness [...]
These thirteen darknesses expanded, propagating more formless shadows like themselves, and one turned into a whole. As their numbers grew, a breed of darkness with form came into being - the Heartless. And the collective without a form became individuals, waiting for the opportunity to nest within those who possess strong hearts."

In both cases, either "consciousness" or "purpose" is what was lost when Darkness became formless, and some of the formless Darknesses later became "individuals." These are not the same thing.

In the official translation, "individual will" was lost when Darkness became formless, and yet some of the formless Darknesses later developed "individual will." These are the same, and it makes literally no sense.

Sign

June 10, 2021 @ 12:23 amOffline

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bambii

Did the localization team just phone it in? Or am I missing something?

Oh good, it's not just me who thought this dialogue was wacky.

I also took issue with this:




At the beginning of first scene:

MoM: "Haven't I told you? There's no way for us to win against the darkness. That's why we needed to use the time we had to get all those Keyblade wielders ready to pass the torch to the next generation. This world exists to nurture the Dandelions, our little seeds of light, so they can be sown into the future, where they CAN stop the darkness."

Later in this same conversation:

MoM: "Of those thirteen (darknesses), we'll trap the most powerful seven inside the hearts of each of us. We'll all go our separate ways and destroy the darkness wherever we end up."



He states that they can't defeat the darkness and have to rely on future Keyblade wielders to do so, yet follows up by saying that he and his disciples will take out seven of them on their own. Which is it, sir? Can you defeat the darkness or not?




Also, the face reveal scene: are we under the impression that it's meant to be an extension of the Back Cover ending or something different?

In Back Cover, Luxu says "May my heart be my guiding key."
In UX, "Luxu" says "My your heart be your guiding key."

Is this significant or just a blunder, I honestly have no idea. Considering the rest of this dialogue, I'm inclined to think the latter.

bambii

June 10, 2021 @ 12:33 amOffline

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Sign

Also, the face reveal scene: are we under the impression that it's meant to be an extension of the Back Cover ending or something different?

In Back Cover, Luxu says "May my heart be my guiding key."
In UX, "Luxu" says "My your heart be your guiding key."

Is this significant or just a blunder, I honestly have no idea. Considering the rest of this dialogue, I'm inclined to think the latter.

I noticed this too, and it’s driving me insane lol.

The_Echo

June 10, 2021 @ 12:49 amOffline

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Sign

Also, the face reveal scene: are we under the impression that it's meant to be an extension of the Back Cover ending or something different?

In Back Cover, Luxu says "May my heart be my guiding key."
In UX, "Luxu" says "My your heart be your guiding key."

Is this significant or just a blunder, I honestly have no idea. Considering the rest of this dialogue, I'm inclined to think the latter.

Considering the original JP phrase doesn't even have room for this distinction, yeah it's just the UX localizers once again showing absolutely no awareness of the previous games and missing obvious callbacks

Moonlight Aqua

June 10, 2021 @ 01:26 amOffline

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Sign

People seem to have come to the conclusion that Luxu hijack Brain's body and yeeted his heart or taught him how to travel to the future somehow. There's precedence for the first part (see: Ansem SoD and Riku) but it's the time travel element that is questionable. Brain is under the impression that whatever method he used would have the same results as Lauriam and the others. Getting forced out of his own body and randomly shooting off into time and space probably wouldn't lead him to come to that conclusion?

I think it's too soon to tell right now without more context.

I agree with this statement. There are lots of theories, but until we get more information, we won't know. I'm just hoping Brain is still himself and not norted or anything like that, he seems like a good character.

The_Echo

Considering the original JP phrase doesn't even have room for this distinction, yeah it's just the UX localizers once again showing absolutely no awareness of the previous games and missing obvious callbacks

I read that some people are thinking that maybe this was on purpose, but who knows?

Oracle Spockanort

June 10, 2021 @ 03:09 amOffline

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Moonlight Aqua

I read that some people are thinking that maybe this was on purpose, but who knows?

Knowing how piss-poor KHUX has handled the localization of that game, I'm 100% certain it was a mistake. We are talking about the people who took Guilt, a relevant plot point, and turned it into "Special Attack Bonus", "ark" into "lifeboat", and also just regularly disregards existing lines and callbacks in lieu of weird translations.

bambii

June 10, 2021 @ 03:44 amOffline

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I assume the localization team for the mobile games is totally separate from the team that works on the main series? Cause yea, I'd call the whole official translation a disaster. Nomura's writing can be confusing, sure, but it's rarely communicated this poorly. UX is full of massive lore dumps so I can only hope SENA gets its shit together if they ever make a remake.

Chaser

June 10, 2021 @ 04:21 amOffline

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bambii

I assume the localization team for the mobile games is totally separate from the team that works on the main series? Cause yea, I'd call the whole official translation a disaster. Nomura's writing can be confusing, sure, but it's rarely communicated this poorly. UX is full of massive lore dumps so I can only hope SENA gets its shit together if they ever make a remake.

Nope! Same translators. Noriko Iwahara (Kingdom Hearts 2, 2.8, 3) and Kate Ellerhorst. I think the main thing is Brain Gray wasn’t working on Union X though.

KeybladeLordSora

June 10, 2021 @ 04:43 amOffline

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Reminder that every post-KH2 callback to "We'll go together" is basically exclusive to Japan because translators can't figure out how to make it work in english

bambii

June 10, 2021 @ 05:00 amOffline

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Chaser

Nope! Same translators. Noriko Iwahara (Kingdom Hearts 2, 2.8, 3) and Kate Ellerhorst. I think the main thing is Brain Gray wasn’t working on Union X though.

Interesting. I suppose there’s a lot more you can get away with when you’re not limited to just words on a screen with no voice and minimal gesture/camera work. I guess in retrospect KH3 and ReMind had some… questionable explanations for things as well lol. We’re stuck with “lifeboat” forever, it would seem!

kirabook

June 10, 2021 @ 05:32 amOffline

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I've never really been invested in the official translations or anything, but why do I find myself explaining to people why the SENA's behavior with this is bad. Isn't it obvious how unprofessional they're handling this? I'm not upset over it, but like... shouldn't it bother you a little bit how little they care about it?

"It doesn't affect me, so I don't care! Why do you?"

I dunno, because what if they continue like this? What, are you going to defend them when they announce KH4 and the official US twitter accounts don't say anything about it or when it's coming or when it'll be released?? Imagine if Japan got a release date and the US Kingdom Hearts account is like, "Melody of Memory now available on the PS5! KH4 who? Oh yeah that. I guess we'll tweet about it someday."

Sign

June 10, 2021 @ 05:57 amOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Reminder that every post-KH2 callback to "We'll go together" is basically exclusive to Japan because translators can't figure out how to make it work in english

Why'd you have to remind me ?

Clue.Less

June 10, 2021 @ 06:57 amOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

Reminder that every post-KH2 callback to "We'll go together" is basically exclusive to Japan because translators can't figure out how to make it work in english

!!! When are there callbacks?

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kristi-swat

June 10, 2021 @ 07:59 amOffline

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Sign

He states that they can't defeat the darkness and have to rely on future Keyblade wielders to do so, yet follows up by saying that he and his disciples will take out seven of them on their own. Which is it, sir? Can you defeat the darkness or not?


In the fan translation it was that the darknesses are already inside MoM and the 6. The only change made by the official translation is that they are not yet inside but will be eventually once darkness grows inside them.

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korr4k

June 10, 2021 @ 08:58 amOffline

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Just got a wild guess: what if the shadowy figure approaching Ventus is actually his Darkness that went looking for Xehanort?

First of all, we still don't know how Xehanort found Ventus and, most importantly, the latter is in a state of "coma" by the end of Ux. What if the Darkness decided to go looking for somebody to take care of their body and is now coming back after completing his quest?

There would still be two unanswered questions: is that the same Darkness we see Ventus fight during Ux? KH3 is hinting that Ventus hosted two of them.. second, was it "destiny" that they came across Xehanort, or was the Darkness actually looking for him?

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LightJak

June 10, 2021 @ 09:59 amOffline

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I'm confused. Was the player attacking Ephemer and Skuld just an act or was it really the darkness conrtolling him/her?

KeybladeLordSora

June 10, 2021 @ 10:23 amOffline

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Clue.Less

!!! When are there callbacks?

The two big ones are in DDD and UX. Young Xehanort and Ephemer say it respectively, with Ephemer's being the only voiced line in the entirety of UX that isn't Kairi's grandma's story.

In English however they got changed to "Come with me" and "Let's go".

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EternalDreamVG

June 10, 2021 @ 10:24 amOffline

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LightJak

I'm confused. Was the player attacking Ephemer and Skuld just an act or was it really the darkness conrtolling him/her?

It was an act. The Darknesses aren't a hive mind, so they don't know what each of the other 12 is thinking or doing at that moment either. Since there's only 4 of them, they have no idea where the 5th is - we know Ventus merged with it, they don't. So the player takes advantage of that to act like he's the 5th darkness, and Ephemer and Skuld are shocked because they "realize" Ven's plan didn't work and believe Player was possessed by that Darkness instead.

It's actually a pretty brilliant ploy to make up on the spot - no wonder Xehanort has a thousand and one contingency plans, maybe he inherited that from us.

On the topic of translations, lets not forget KH3 changed a bunch of abilities for no reason - Withstand Combo for example. It's no secret the localization team is...messy.

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Tobi

June 10, 2021 @ 12:01 pmOffline

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EternalDreamVG

It's actually a pretty brilliant ploy to make up on the spot - no wonder Xehanort has a thousand and one contingency plans, maybe he inherited that from us

I loved that part, too. It was with the indirect help of MoM (the setup of everything), but I loved it when one single random child managed to lock up four (i originally I thought five, cus i thought there was really a darkness inside player) major - weaker, but stilm dangerous - threats to the world with just one trick. It was with self sacrifize, but the entire scene was gold for me, especially the part there Player started mocking them.

For the translation part:
It might be a job poorly done, but I can also imagine some timeline shenaningans. Had this thought since the whole "Be your heart your guiding key" stuff reached Sora through Yen Sid and them saying he did that before too... Can be just Nomura ignoring stuff, but I can also imagine someone is rewriting stuff in-universe.

Also for the post with the pictures about imagine sth. strong enough -> reality, it kinda reminded me about the concept of creation magic (ff14), but I guess even if the idea is similar, the one won't have to do with the other... although I wouldn't mind some Primals battles KH style.

Clue.Less

June 10, 2021 @ 12:15 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

The two big ones are in DDD and UX. Young Xehanort and Ephemer say it respectively, with Ephemer's being the only voiced line in the entirety of UX that isn't Kairi's grandma's story.

In English however they got changed to "Come with me" and "Let's go".

Thanks! And wow, those are key lines, too. Having that callback instead of "Come with me" would have been terrifying.

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EternalDreamVG

June 10, 2021 @ 01:59 pmOffline

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I'm a little confused about the whole formless darkness / Heartless thing.

So, long long ago, 7 "light" and 13 "darkness" were at war with eachother. Then the entities that were "darkness" gave up their forms to be able to attack the heart instead of inflicting physical wounds. In doing so however, they started slowly losing their conscious thought and purpose. They then started infecting other worlds, causing more darkness to come into existence...somehow? And then the original 13 continued to develop an individual will (how this is different from consciousness or having a purpose I do not know)?

I assume this additional "off-spring" formless darkness then entered the hearts of people, which in turn resulted in people giving in to said darkness and turning into Heartless the way it's been explained in the series thus far, do I have that right?

bambii

June 10, 2021 @ 02:54 pmOffline

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EternalDreamVG

I'm a little confused about the whole formless darkness / Heartless thing.

Join the club ?

But actually, I think you've explained it pretty well given the information we have. That seems right—Darkness seeks to spread, which it has partially done through the creation of Heartless, but the "original 13" retain a semblance of identity as formless individuals seeking strong vessels so that they can regain their form. So their goal is really twofold: continue to spread ("infection"), and gain form (for the original "13"). The translation does a shit job of explaining this but I think it's a reasonable conclusion to draw.

The question this begs, in my opinion, is what was Darkness' original purpose/intention before they gave up their form to defeat the light? Sure, light vs. darkness and all that, yada yada, but I'm very curious about their original form and backstory. Not something we can really deduce from the information we've been given, though.

Sign

June 10, 2021 @ 03:18 pmOffline

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EternalDreamVG

And then the original 13 continued to develop an individual will (how this is different from consciousness or having a purpose I do not know)?

This part you don't need to worry about, it's the same thing. We were also considering of going with "individual will" as well lol

Sephiroth0812

June 10, 2021 @ 03:24 pmOffline

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bambii

The question this begs, in my opinion, is what was Darkness' original purpose/intention before they gave up their form to defeat the light? Sure, light vs. darkness and all that, yada yada, but I'm very curious about their original form and backstory. Not something we can really deduce from the information we've been given, though.

The only available information on this topic would be the original tale of the Keyblade War and how Keyblades came to be which was told in earlier games of the series by both Xehanort (in BBS reports if I recall correctly) and Yen Sid (in DDD) which was about how originally everything was full of light but then some people became greedy and wanted all the light for themselves, aiming to conquer Kingdom Hearts and access it via the X-blade.
To this end, they forged the very first Keyblades using the X-blade as a template/inspiration which originally were tools intended for conquest of light.
This greed eventually lead to the outbreak of the original (first?) Keyblade War which at its end saw the breaking of the X-blade into the 7 and 13 pieces and the original Kingdom Hearts lost to the Realm of Darkness.

From our current state of information one would be tempted to ascribe this war being the one where the Master of Masters himself participated in in his own youth, although on what side and in which role is ambiguous as well as how it relates to the "actual" Keyblade War we were presented at the end of X[chi] the browser game.
The war we were shown is also still largely a mystery in terms of its actual conclusion as we get it presented through the eyes of "Player" which only shows the opening stages of it and the aftermath, yet not the actual climax and conclusion.

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EternalDreamVG

June 10, 2021 @ 03:33 pmOffline

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Hold on a second...

We've already seen this whole "infection" thing in action. The Unversed come from Vanitas who is heavily implied to be one of the 6 weaker formless Darknesses. The only missing step is said darkness first entering the hearts of people to then become Heartless. So it stands to reason that all 13 of them are capable of spreading any number of "darkness" in various forms - just that the Heartless are the major ones.

Unversed really are just proto-Heartless. :unsure:

Sephiroth0812

June 10, 2021 @ 03:52 pmOffline

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Tbh I am more of the impression that Vanitas is a hybrid-being similar to Roxas instead of one of the full "lesser" six darknesses.
Yet while Roxas was created from both the hearts of Sora and Ventus, Vanitas was created from a combination of Ven's own Darkness and the one of the six "lesser" Darkness-beings which is/was sealed inside Ventus.

Concerning the Unversed though there might be something more to it as their symbol (which looks like a heart chained/captured with Darkness) seems to be part of the "alphabet" of Scala et Caelum.

bambii

June 10, 2021 @ 04:09 pmOffline

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EternalDreamVG

Unversed really are just proto-Heartless. :unsure:

Yea I think one thing Union X has effectively established in the lore is that all the various forms of darkness we see throughout the series (Heartless, Unversed, Nightmares, "Karma"/Gigas maybe??) essentially come from the same source, or the Darkness as a "whole." Meanwhile, the original 13 are still roaming about on their own...

Sephiroth0812

Tbh I am more of the impression that Vanitas is a hybrid-being similar to Roxas instead of one of the full "lesser" six darknesses.
Yet while Roxas was created from both the hearts of Sora and Ventus, Vanitas was created from a combination of Ven's own Darkness and the one of the six "lesser" Darkness-beings which is/was sealed inside Ventus.

I would agree with this.

Here's another question: what relation do the 13 Xehanorts/Seekers of Darkness have to the "original 13" Darknesses? If the MoM is to believed the 7 strongest Darknesses are likely captured within the hearts of the Lost Masters, so mostly likely the Real Org XIII doesn't comprise the "original 13," though some of the lesser Darknesses may be present (e.g., via Vanitas). It would seem that Xehanort himself pulled from some massive pool of darkness, strengthened and concentrated it, then dispersed it amongst 13 vessels in order to re-enact the clash of the original 13 and 7 lights. But from what source did he draw that darkness (which we see him wading through in Dark Road Episode 3)? Is Xehanort himself channeling one of the original Darknesses?

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KeyToDestiny

June 10, 2021 @ 04:35 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Tbh I am more of the impression that Vanitas is a hybrid-being similar to Roxas instead of one of the full "lesser" six darknesses.
Yet while Roxas was created from both the hearts of Sora and Ventus, Vanitas was created from a combination of Ven's own Darkness and the one of the six "lesser" Darkness-beings which is/was sealed inside Ventus.

Except Vanitas has quite literally said that he's not really part of Ventus at all. He quite literally said that he was hidden inside Ventus for a really long time and all Xehanort did was just drag him out of Ventus. IIRC, the JP dialogue even had him flat out state he was a separate being from Ventus entirely. The point is, it's not really pointing towards a hybrid situation at all. More like Vanitas was just a foreign invader who would hide himself inside Ventus before Xehanort dragged him out. From what we've seen of UX, it just falls in line with what Ventus did with one of those darknesses at the end and forced it back into his heart and forging their connection. So yes you can maybe say Vanitas did take something from Ventus when Xehanort took him out(and that was a part of his heart) but Vanitas' situation doesn't sound like Roxas' situation whatsoever.

Sign

June 10, 2021 @ 04:42 pmOffline

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KeyToDestiny

Except Vanitas has quite literally said that he's not really part of Ventus at all. He quite literally said that he was hidden inside Ventus for a really long time and all Xehanort did was just drag him out of Ventus. IIRC, the JP dialogue even had him flat out state he was a separate being from Ventus entirely. The point is, it's not really pointing towards a hybrid situation at all. More like Vanitas was just a foreign invader who would hide himself inside Ventus before Xehanort dragged him out. From what we've seen of UX, it just falls in line with what Ventus did with one of those darknesses at the end and forced it back into his heart and forging their connection. So yes you can maybe say Vanitas did take something from Ventus when Xehanort took him out(and that was a part of his heart) but Vanitas' situation doesn't sound like Roxas' situation whatsoever.

Darkness spoke of themselves as a separate entity when it was expelled from Ven's body, wherein they claimed that the two were now pure darkness and pure light. Ven wasn't born of pure light, so the only conclusion is that they took his own darkness along with them during the exit. When Ven assimilated them again, he was taking in an individual comprised of Darkness as well his former natural born darkness.

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KeyToDestiny

June 10, 2021 @ 04:55 pmOffline

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Sign

Darkness spoke of themselves as a separate entity when it was expelled from Ven's body, wherein they claimed that the two were now pure darkness and pure light. Ven wasn't born of pure light, so the only conclusion is that they took his own darkness along with them during the exit. When Ven assimilated them again, he was taking in an individual comprised of Darkness as well his former natural born darkness.

I mean that's still essentially Vanitas at the end of the day. The same "Darkness" who did all that to Ventus to maintain being a willful pure darkness which would leave Ventus a pure light after that darkness used him to reshape itself. I guess yeah Ventus wasn't always a pure light(presumably) but given KH3RM's new scene, Vanitas is still basically that same "Darkness". On top of that, we don't even know how much darkness Ventus even had on his own before that "Darkness" got to him. If it wasn't that big, then it might not have mattered as much. All "Darkness" did was add on that darkness Ventus might have had onto it's own being. Which would still result in the same "Darkness" but with just a little more darkness than before. That's why I still don't see how Vanitas' situation is anything like Roxas'. Vanitas was an already pre-existing being all on his own from what he said unlike Roxas came into existence because of Sora.

Noivern

June 10, 2021 @ 05:33 pmOffline

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KeyToDestiny

I mean that's still essentially Vanitas at the end of the day. The same "Darkness" who did all that to Ventus to maintain being a willful pure darkness which would leave Ventus a pure light after that darkness used him to reshape itself. I guess yeah Ventus wasn't always a pure light(presumably) but given KH3RM's new scene, Vanitas is still basically that same "Darkness". On top of that, we don't even know how much darkness Ventus even had on his own before that "Darkness" got to him. If it wasn't that big, then it might not have mattered as much. All "Darkness" did was add on that darkness Ventus might have had onto it's own being. Which would still result in the same "Darkness" but with just a little more darkness than before. That's why I still don't see how Vanitas' situation is anything like Roxas'. Vanitas was an already pre-existing being all on his own from what he said unlike Roxas came into existence because of Sora.

You're just running in circles here. Vanitas can be Darkness, but Darkness is not necessarily Vanitas.

The amount of Ven's Darkness he took in clearly mattered because his personality is different, he has the whole emotional baggage going with Ven, as well as the physical appearance. If we go into the journal stuff about how Vanitas originally did not have a face behind the mask, the plot thickens as his connection to Ventus (and the later's own strenght of heart) clearly mattered.

Back to the thread, I'm just going to flat out ignore the official translation because of the mistakes other people already mentioned. It's not only unprofessional but flat out disappointing as I don't think I can ever truly trust the script of the english versions of the games from now on.

Nomura already has a unique style to his writing that makes everything confusing, but you can understand it if you think long enough about it. If we add the inconsistences from the script, though, then it just becomes a huge mess.

Sephiroth0812

June 10, 2021 @ 06:40 pmOffline

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KeyToDestiny

Except Vanitas has quite literally said that he's not really part of Ventus at all. He quite literally said that he was hidden inside Ventus for a really long time and all Xehanort did was just drag him out of Ventus. IIRC, the JP dialogue even had him flat out state he was a separate being from Ventus entirely. The point is, it's not really pointing towards a hybrid situation at all. More like Vanitas was just a foreign invader who would hide himself inside Ventus before Xehanort dragged him out. From what we've seen of UX, it just falls in line with what Ventus did with one of those darknesses at the end and forced it back into his heart and forging their connection. So yes you can maybe say Vanitas did take something from Ventus when Xehanort took him out(and that was a part of his heart) but Vanitas' situation doesn't sound like Roxas' situation whatsoever.

What Vanitas actually did is contradicting himself in KH 3 when looking at all his statements in vanilla KH 3 and Re:Mind together. Not to mention he talks about "black masses" inside Ven which he doesn't know the origin of and can't confirm if they belong to Ven, to himself or a third being entirely in the character files.
Just because he says something doesn't mean he's right nor that he knows all the facts.

This points towards Vanitas himself not being entirely sure and him taking/having a part of Ventus actually would be quite a big deal because the sum of all the parts (one of the six "lesser" darknesses + part of Ven's heart) would be bigger and thus different than the original.
"Vanitas" as the being presented in BBS and onwards didn't exist until Xehanort created him as it was stated he's a "newborn heart" and that heart was shaped for four years by Xehanort.

The developments in Union X confirm that the sources from which Vanitas was created were not solely from Ventus, but it does not confirm that he's unrelated or unconnected to Ventus completely.

The parallels to Roxas are there even if they are not 1-to-1 as Roxas is also more than the sum of the parts (Sora's and Ven's hearts) that originally created him.

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korr4k

June 10, 2021 @ 07:06 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

What Vanitas actually did is contradicting himself in KH 3 when looking at all his statements in vanilla KH 3 and Re:Mind together. Not to mention he talks about "black masses" inside Ven which he doesn't know the origin of and can't confirm if they belong to Ven, to himself or a third being entirely in the character files.
Just because he says something doesn't mean he's right nor that he knows all the facts.

This points towards Vanitas himself not being entirely sure and him taking/having a part of Ventus actually would be quite a big deal because the sum of all the parts (one of the six "lesser" darknesses + part of Ven's heart) would be bigger and thus different than the original.
"Vanitas" as the being presented in BBS and onwards didn't exist until Xehanort created him as it was stated he's a "newborn heart" and that heart was shaped for four years by Xehanort.

The developments in Union X confirm that the sources from which Vanitas was created were not solely from Ventus, but it does not confirm that he's unrelated or unconnected to Ventus completely.

The parallels to Roxas are there even if they are not 1-to-1 as Roxas is also more than the sum of the parts (Sora's and Ven's hearts) that originally created him.

I don't really think it matters much in the grand scheme.

The bottom line is that there were once 13 dark beings and there will be another 13 by the end. As MoM said, this is the way of the world: 13 opposing 7, it's a cycle that will always repeat until you break it somehow.

It doesn't matter who are those 13 Darknesses, only that there are that many, and IMHO it's only natural that during the entire process the final 13 aren't going to be an exact copy of the original ones.

Cumguardian69

June 10, 2021 @ 07:07 pmOffline

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kirabook

I've never really been invested in the official translations or anything, but why do I find myself explaining to people why the SENA's behavior with this is bad. Isn't it obvious how unprofessional they're handling this? I'm not upset over it, but like... shouldn't it bother you a little bit how little they care about it?

"It doesn't affect me, so I don't care! Why do you?"

I dunno, because what if they continue like this? What, are you going to defend them when they announce KH4 and the official US twitter accounts don't say anything about it or when it's coming or when it'll be released?? Imagine if Japan got a release date and the US Kingdom Hearts account is like, "Melody of Memory now available on the PS5! KH4 who? Oh yeah that. I guess we'll tweet about it someday."

Bruh...we live in the Internet age. If KH4 is announced, they're gonna show trailers at TGS, Jump Festa, and possibly E3. There's no excuse to NOT know about besides willful ignorance. jpn still gets KH first because it is a Japanese game at heart.

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KeyToDestiny

June 10, 2021 @ 07:25 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

What Vanitas actually did is contradicting himself in KH 3 when looking at all his statements in vanilla KH 3 and Re:Mind together. Not to mention he talks about "black masses" inside Ven which he doesn't know the origin of and can't confirm if they belong to Ven, to himself or a third being entirely in the character files.
Just because he says something doesn't mean he's right nor that he knows all the facts.

This points towards Vanitas himself not being entirely sure and him taking/having a part of Ventus actually would be quite a big deal because the sum of all the parts (one of the six "lesser" darknesses + part of Ven's heart) would be bigger and thus different than the original.
"Vanitas" as the being presented in BBS and onwards didn't exist until Xehanort created him as it was stated he's a "newborn heart" and that heart was shaped for four years by Xehanort.

The developments in Union X confirm that the sources from which Vanitas was created were not solely from Ventus, but it does not confirm that he's unrelated or unconnected to Ventus completely.

The parallels to Roxas are there even if they are not 1-to-1 as Roxas is also more than the sum of the parts (Sora's and Ven's hearts) that originally created him.

IIRC that dialogue came from the novel and that isn't really part of the main canon. Even the character files are questionable. Also I don't see why we shouldn't take what he says at face value. There's no reason to not believe him. For all we know, he could have had amnesia similar to Ventus and then ended up regaining pieces of his memories from the past. By KH3RM, he was quite literally firm in what he said to Ventus about what he said and even in KH3 vanilla, what he said wasn't really that contradictory to what he told Ventus and Sora after his defeat. He was "Darkness" became connected to Ventus and would dwell within his heart until Xehanort ripped him out and then Sora would take his place. Remember that he doesn't just refer to himself as a "piece" for Ventus but also refers to Sora as a "piece" for Ventus as well.

So again, I'm still not really seeing the Roxas parallels here at all since they don't really seem to be the same at all since Vanitas is pretty much saying he was a pre-existing being before he got to Ventus and that was said in the game instead of the novels or character files. Guess we'll have to wait until the future games elaborate more on those connections.

Alpha Baymax

June 10, 2021 @ 10:40 pmOffline

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GreyouTT

June 11, 2021 @ 12:00 amOffline

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Is it strange that I liked the translations for UX more than the main games? Like yeah there's a few hiccups and they miss callbacks, but the lines felt... more "natural" I guess?

Chie

June 11, 2021 @ 12:27 amOffline

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It may be that UX itself is more naturally written. Many other KH games are also more naturally written than, say, KH3 for example.

Cumguardian69

June 11, 2021 @ 01:39 amOffline

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The translations for UX were better than say 3 becoz ux was lore heavy and world buulding, it wasn't character drama. 3 had really weird writing.

Rydgea

June 11, 2021 @ 05:57 amOffline

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Man, what a bizarre experience playing this game has been. I remember creating a Yahoo! Japan account just to get a taste.

Not sure how much Re:Mind or Melody of Memory would have helped me understand any of its mysteries as I have yet to play them, but as the gateway to the next phase/saga/etc, UX's story has been intriguing to say the least. The way it's been told over the years does leave me struggling to recall certain events while also apprehensive to rewatch, relearn the material. I still think it's a shame, maybe a disservice to itself, as a more standard, streamlined KH experience could transform it into a stronger entry. Though, I did appreciate the aesthetics, maybe they could be preserved and repackaged if there were ever to be a fully-fledged remake. (CoM still deserves this tbh.) All things considered I ended up enjoying quite a few of the characters, and because of that it was bitterly cruel for that last faux-battle to deceive us, the player, into thinking we were fighting poor Ephemer & Skuld (when "we" were doing the deceiving).

Sitting at 99% for story mode thinking, "Why not?" as far as knocking out these last 10-20 Proud Mode quests, but they are bruuutal. I haven't picked up the game but maybe once early this year? I might have taken all of 2020 off. And now I might be shorted that one measly percent because of it. Bah.

Still, it was nice to get to play with some of you over the years. Will always have a soft spot for Team Jasmine Dragon~

AdrianXXII

June 11, 2021 @ 06:11 amOffline

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Sephiroth0812

What Vanitas actually did is contradicting himself in KH 3 when looking at all his statements in vanilla KH 3 and Re:Mind together. Not to mention he talks about "black masses" inside Ven which he doesn't know the origin of and can't confirm if they belong to Ven, to himself or a third being entirely in the character files.
Just because he says something doesn't mean he's right nor that he knows all the facts.

This points towards Vanitas himself not being entirely sure and him taking/having a part of Ventus actually would be quite a big deal because the sum of all the parts (one of the six "lesser" darknesses + part of Ven's heart) would be bigger and thus different than the original.
"Vanitas" as the being presented in BBS and onwards didn't exist until Xehanort created him as it was stated he's a "newborn heart" and that heart was shaped for four years by Xehanort.

The developments in Union X confirm that the sources from which Vanitas was created were not solely from Ventus, but it does not confirm that he's unrelated or unconnected to Ventus completely.

The parallels to Roxas are there even if they are not 1-to-1 as Roxas is also more than the sum of the parts (Sora's and Ven's hearts) that originally created him.

Yeah, honestly I disliked the revelation initially, but it actually works pretty well. Vanitas is still part of Ven, but he's also more and something older. This helps explain why he managed to take form and didn't just become a heartless and it explains, why he can create the Unversed. He's not just Ven's darkness, but also an otherwise powerful dark entity in his own right.

Ven and Darkness merged, Darkness being imprisoned in Ven's strong heart of light. Xehanort probably sensed the powerful darkness locked within and grew frustrated that Ven wouldn't embrace it so, he carved it out. I assume what he carved out wasn't just purely the Darkness that Ven imprisoned, but also a part of Ven, considering the damage to his heart and the lingering connection between the two and also Sora.
Like you said Vanitas is more than just the sum of his parts and I think if the other darkesses get separated from their hosts it'll most likely be similar.

Violet Pluto

June 11, 2021 @ 09:34 amOffline

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Sign

Darkness spoke of themselves as a separate entity when it was expelled from Ven's body, wherein they claimed that the two were now pure darkness and pure light. Ven wasn't born of pure light, so the only conclusion is that they took his own darkness along with them during the exit. When Ven assimilated them again, he was taking in an individual comprised of Darkness as well his former natural born darkness.

I'm not sure how pure Ven was before Darkness took him over, but this part reminds me of what Master Odin said. Originally Darkness invaded people's hearts and now it's a natural part of them. I wonder if that took place before X. Actually as I was typing that sentence I realize it probably took place before X because MoM's plan as was revealed was to expose his students to harsh conditions that would make their Hearts more suited to harbor one of the 13 Shades of Darkness within them. I don't think that Darkness would easily corrupt pure light, so I guess I answered my own question.

Anyway reminder to people that Vanitas was shaped by Ventus' heart anyway, so seeing them as being connected or himself as another part of Ven wouldn't be too out there even if Ventus was pure light. It's like when your roommate moves out and says that the home was half his when he never paid rent. While technically that isn't accurate you can see why he said it. I really hope that simile wasn't super obtuse and something only I get.

Alpha Baymax

June 11, 2021 @ 02:19 pmOffline

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Did Ephemer die young after founding Scala Ad Caelum? It would play to the symbolic meaning of his name.

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ZeVaine

June 11, 2021 @ 04:15 pmOffline

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I also think its weird that Ephemer would randomly think of naming it Scala Ad Caelum (unless that name came later). Did the Union X verse speak Latin lol

AdrianXXII

June 11, 2021 @ 04:33 pmOffline

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ZeVaine

I also think its weird that Ephemer would randomly think of naming it Scala Ad Caelum (unless that name came later). Did the Union X verse speak Latin lol

Maybe he read in the Book of Prophecies that that's what the city should be named. The Master of Masters seems to like giving stuff Latin names, at least if his apprentices are anything to go off of.

The_Echo

June 11, 2021 @ 07:25 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax

Did Ephemer die young after founding Scala Ad Caelum? It would play to the symbolic meaning of his name.

Could be, or the statue was made while he still looked like that

GreyouTT

June 11, 2021 @ 07:40 pmOffline

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I like how his statue is normal person shaped while everyone else is a chibi.

Moonlight Aqua

June 12, 2021 @ 02:53 amOffline

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I was watching Cynical's video on a theory he as on Scala and I feel he's on to something. That each one we seen, it's different time periods. Like the one where Brain is in, is the ancient one and where baby Xehanort is born in, but he is then taken to Destiny Islands and when he sees older Xehanort , he's teleported to modern scala.

Luminary

June 16, 2021 @ 08:13 pmOffline

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I wonder if there will be any kind of statement from Nomura or anything to mark the end of the game since the app is shutting down today. I’d love an interview to get some thoughts but I doubt any media is really interested in covering this. Lol

The_Echo

June 16, 2021 @ 08:24 pmOffline

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Luminary

I wonder if there will be any kind of statement from Nomura or anything to mark the end of the game since the app is shutting down today. I’d love an interview to get some thoughts but I doubt any media is really interested in covering this. Lol

He's done a number of interviews with Famitsu (and Dengeki?) for UXDR
I wouldn't be surprised to see one show up in the next couple weeks, talking about the finale and maybe about Dark Road's full release.

Luminary

June 16, 2021 @ 10:28 pmOffline

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The_Echo

He's done a number of interviews with Famitsu (and Dengeki?) for UXDR
I wouldn't be surprised to see one show up in the next couple weeks, talking about the finale and maybe about Dark Road's full release.


Yeah I guess it’s more that Square Enix themselves haven’t really brought much attention to the finale since they’re no longer making money off of it. So SE themselves may not feel like setting up an interview is worth their time from a marketing standpoint. And Famitsu probably has more exciting things to cover right now with E3 and all.

Maybe he’ll do one for NEO: TWEWY and some KH questions will come up. Or likewise if they do something for FF: Origin.

Alpha Baymax

June 16, 2021 @ 11:11 pmOffline

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Luminary

I wonder if there will be any kind of statement from Nomura or anything to mark the end of the game since the app is shutting down today. I’d love an interview to get some thoughts but I doubt any media is really interested in covering this. Lol

Seeing as Union Cross and Dark Road are directly connected, I think Nomura is going to have an in-depth interview covering both of the games narrative.

Willow A113

June 16, 2021 @ 11:12 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax

Seeing as Union Cross and Dark Road are directly connected, I think Nomura is going to have an in-depth interview covering both of the games narrative.

Maybe sometime after Dark Road releases.

Moonlight Aqua

June 17, 2021 @ 01:30 amOffline

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Willow A113

Maybe sometime after Dark Road releases.

Will there be a update soon?

Willow A113

June 17, 2021 @ 02:37 amOffline

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Moonlight Aqua

Will there be a update soon?

If you count September as soon.

Ballad of Caius

June 17, 2021 @ 01:31 pmOffline

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Willow A113

If you count September as soon.

JHAJAHAAJAHJJAHAJHJA I couldn't help but laugh at the sarcasm, but it's also sad at the same time. We're back to the waiting a long period of time for story updates.

Hell, I don't know why some fans are bothered with not receiving news for KH until the series' 20th anniversary.

I just hope Square goes wild with KH's anniversary, unlike how Nintendo did with Zelda's 35th............

Chie

June 17, 2021 @ 04:12 pmOffline

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It's pretty much impossible to go wild with any anniversary when all games take years to develop now.

Noivern

June 17, 2021 @ 04:36 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

JHAJAHAAJAHJJAHAJHJA I couldn't help but laugh at the sarcasm, but it's also sad at the same time. We're back to the waiting a long period of time for story updates.

Hell, I don't know why some fans are bothered with not receiving news for KH until the series' 20th anniversary.

I just hope Square goes wild with KH's anniversary, unlike how Nintendo did with Zelda's 35th............


This is something I have pointed as well in the E3 thread.. I really don't understand this recent vibe I've seen on these forums as if KH is on some long hiatus or something. MoM released at the end of last year, UX *just* ended and the finale was divided in two parts as well pretty much taking over the entire first half of the year.
We know for a fact that we have two more updates of Dark Road to look forward to throughout this year, and can expect at least one new game to be announced next year, possibly more.
In retrospect, this is one of the busiest times for KH as a franchise with back-to-back releases since 3 dropped?

I have been following this franchise since I was like, 9? And have been here for around 2~3 years (although I only made my account later on) and the community is still doing pretty well, while I usually just take some time off inbetween updates.

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kristi-swat

June 17, 2021 @ 04:40 pmOffline

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Noivern

This is something I have pointed as well in the E3 thread.. I really don't understand this recent vibe I've seen on these forums as if KH is on some long hiatus or something. MoM released at the end of last year, UX *just* ended and the finale was divided in two parts as well pretty much taking over the entire first half of the year.
We know for a fact that we have two more updates of Dark Road to look forward to throughout this year, and can expect at least one new game to be announced next year, possibly more.
In retrospect, this is one of the busiest times for KH as a franchise with back-to-back releases since 3 dropped?

I have been following this franchise since I was like, 9? And have been here for around 2~3 years (although I only made my account later on) and the community is still doing pretty well, while I usually just take some time off inbetween updates.

where did you read that there will be 2 DR updates? afaik there will be only 1 :/

Noivern

June 17, 2021 @ 04:47 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

where did you read that there will be 2 DR updates? afaik there will be only 1 :/

Just an educated guess considering the actual game-part of the app ends today in japan and soon after in the us, so we're only getting Dark Road cutscenes to patch in later, so they'd have to really push it to release the last one in 2022.
But even if they do, it'll probably be really early in the year anyways, unless they decide to save it for the 2022 anniversary celebration or something lol

Ballad of Caius

June 17, 2021 @ 07:09 pmOffline

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Noivern

I really don't understand this recent vibe I've seen on these forums

To be honest, it hasn't been bad here. Just bad in Twitter and Reddit.

Noivern

as if KH is on some long hiatus or something.

Correct. But it's as if some fans that have grown up with the series forgot how hard it was to be a KH fan during the news droughts hahahahaha

Noivern

MoM released at the end of last year, UX *just* ended and the finale was divided in two parts as well pretty much taking over the entire first half of the year.

Also correct. It's not like the series is gonna die down, for fuck's sake.

Alpha Baymax

June 17, 2021 @ 08:43 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

Also correct. It's not like the series is gonna die down, for fuck's sake.

Nomura is a busy man, not all of his focus is going to be on Kingdom Hearts. There's a reason why all the good stuff is coming in 2022.

Noivern

June 17, 2021 @ 08:55 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax

Nomura is a busy man, not all of his focus is going to be on Kingdom Hearts. There's a reason why all the good stuff is coming in 2022.


While Nomura is definitely not leaving the series anytime soon even if his focus is elsewhere, I'm open to the possibility that other people may take over Act 2 while he takes a backseat to just supervise whatever goes on. I feel like whatever event we get for the 20th anniversary will probably talk about this and how much involvement he's going to have going forward after the 'Quadratum game'.

But ehh, personally, I don't mind if KH gets somewhat inactive soon either. I'd rather if we tone down and get fewer games that are more streamlined instead of ending up like other current Square franchises.

The one thing I actually wanted them to do, which is keep supporting KH3 with interesting DLC's like optional playable characters and extra challenges is not going to happen, but now that we have the game for PC it's an all for all bouffet anyways.

The_Echo

June 17, 2021 @ 09:38 pmOffline

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Noivern

While Nomura is definitely not leaving the series anytime soon even if his focus is elsewhere, I'm open to the possibility that other people may take over Act 2 while he takes a backseat to just supervise whatever goes on. I feel like whatever event we get for the 20th anniversary will probably talk about this and how much involvement he's going to have going forward after the 'Quadratum game'.

I would consider 2005-2010 the busiest Nomura's ever been (Dirge of Cerberus, TWEWY, Crisis Core, Dissidia, FFXIII, Versus XIII, The 3rd Birthday back-to-back, some overlapping), and he still found it within himself to be directly involved with three new KH games and two rereleases as much as he usually is.

No matter how busy Nomura gets, he's always given KH his full attention and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Noivern

June 17, 2021 @ 09:57 pmOffline

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The_Echo

I would consider 2005-2010 the busiest Nomura's ever been (Dirge of Cerberus, TWEWY, Crisis Core, Dissidia, FFXIII, Versus XIII, The 3rd Birthday back-to-back, some overlapping), and he still found it within himself to be directly involved with three new KH games and two rereleases as much as he usually is.

No matter how busy Nomura gets, he's always given KH his full attention and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Just because he was active in the past does not mean he would still be in the future. It's not necessarily about the amount of work (I'd say it's pretty similar to that time, honestly?), just what he wants to focus on, and KH is a franchise big enough (and growing bigger!) that I could see Square or even himself wanting to give other directors a chance.

That being said, I'm not saying he WILL give the torch away, just saying it could happen. And it's honestly what I would prefeer to happen as well, KH needs a breath of fresh air as it's quite saturated nowadays unlike his other baby franchise (TWEWY) lol

Willow A113

June 17, 2021 @ 10:21 pmOffline

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Noivern

Just because he was active in the past does not mean he would still be in the future. It's not necessarily about the amount of work (I'd say it's pretty similar to that time, honestly?), just what he wants to focus on, and KH is a franchise big enough (and growing bigger!) that I could see Square or even himself wanting to give other directors a chance.

That being said, I'm not saying he WILL give the torch away, just saying it could happen. And it's honestly what I would prefeer to happen as well, KH needs a breath of fresh air as it's quite saturated nowadays unlike his other baby franchise (TWEWY) lol

I don’t see that happening now but maybe after phase two. He seems to be setting up a lot of storyline that he himself wants to complete.

Ballad of Caius

June 17, 2021 @ 10:33 pmOffline

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I'm happy that Nomura got to direct his very own FINAL FANTASY, and possibly the biggest responsibility anyone could ever have in Square: Direct the FFVII Remake; but I'm still kinda sad he never got to make his very own FF game. :/

And I'm not talking about Versus specifically. Just the idea of him seeing his very own FF title to fruition.

KeybladeLordSora

June 17, 2021 @ 10:43 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

JHAJAHAAJAHJJAHAJHJA I couldn't help but laugh at the sarcasm, but it's also sad at the same time. We're back to the waiting a long period of time for story updates.

Hell, I don't know why some fans are bothered with not receiving news for KH until the series' 20th anniversary.

I just hope Square goes wild with KH's anniversary, unlike how Nintendo did with Zelda's 35th............

I'm guilty of this, but in a bit of a different way.

I kinda just worried Nomura won't be able to make the anniversary date. Waiting from November 2020 to March 2022 for news that isn't even set in stone just gets to me.

Ballad of Caius

June 17, 2021 @ 10:45 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

I'm guilty of this, but in a bit of a different way.

I kinda just worried Nomura won't be able to make the anniversary date. Waiting from November 2020 to March 2022 for news that isn't even set in stone just gets to me.

I presume we'll get an update in February

KeybladeLordSora

June 17, 2021 @ 10:48 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

I presume we'll get an update in February

Maybe. There's also the flashbacks to KH3's "announcements in winter" that couldn't happen due to FFXV.

Like, I feel another game will just take the spot and push KH back again.

Alpha Baymax

June 18, 2021 @ 01:56 pmOffline

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Noivern

I'm not saying he WILL give the torch away, just saying it could happen. And it's honestly what I would prefeer to happen as well, KH needs a breath of fresh air as it's quite saturated nowadays unlike his other baby franchise (TWEWY) lol

Unless Nomura is training a Square Enix staff member to replicate his artstyle, he's still the signature character designer for Kingdom Hearts. It's also because of Kingdom Hearts that TWEWY gained renewed interest to the point where a sequel was considered feasible.

bambii

June 18, 2021 @ 04:36 pmOffline

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I am finding it a little strange that Nomura hasn't made a statement on UX ending and going offline. He normally jumps at the opportunity to say a few esoteric words to the fanbase. Guess he's too busy putting out fires for Stranger of Paradise ?

Chie

June 18, 2021 @ 04:40 pmOffline

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Kingdom Hearts is the place where Nomura can express himself personally. It is the only games he's ever been allowed to actually direct (except for FF7R), and where his ideas go when other directing projects get cancelled (Versus XIII). Anything else (TWEWY) is not "his", he just helps those directors get them made.

KH is not a "franchise" or an "IP", it's a specific work headed by a specific team. Certainly there are many co-writers over the years besides Nomura that also hold responsibility for its creation, but you shouldn't just give head positions to any people for marketing reasons.

KeybladeLordSora

June 18, 2021 @ 08:25 pmOffline

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Chie

Kingdom Hearts is the place where Nomura can express himself personally. It is the only games he's ever been allowed to actually direct (except for FF7R), and where his ideas go when other directing projects get cancelled (Versus XIII). Anything else (TWEWY) is not "his", he just helps those directors get them made.

KH is not a "franchise" or an "IP", it's a specific work headed by a specific team. Certainly there are many co-writers over the years besides Nomura that also hold responsibility for its creation, but you shouldn't just give head positions to any people for marketing reasons.

This kinda makes me feel like the true owner of Kingdom Hearts isn't Disney.

It's Nomura. Disney may own it in the legal sense, but since they have to go to Nomura for approval on anything they do with it, he essentially is the true owner.

The_Echo

June 18, 2021 @ 09:55 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

since they have to go to Nomura for approval on anything they do with it, he essentially is the true owner.

Well, until he ends the story and series for good, whereupon Disney will leap at the chance to water it down and milk the absolute shit out of it

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Dreq the Dreck

June 19, 2021 @ 06:27 amOffline

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The_Echo

Well, until he ends the story and series for good, whereupon Disney will leap at the chance to water it down and milk the absolute shit out of it

????????

Alpha Baymax

June 19, 2021 @ 08:04 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora

This kinda makes me feel like the true owner of Kingdom Hearts isn't Disney.

It's Nomura. Disney may own it in the legal sense, but since they have to go to Nomura for approval on anything they do with it, he essentially is the true owner.

That's always been the case. You ever wondered why we don't get anything Kingdom Hearts that doesn't have any creative contributions from Nomura? It's because he has control of what gets creatively approved.

The only Kingdom Hearts products unaffiliated with Square Enix was Kingdom Hearts V-Cast and that was released before Chain of Memories.

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