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(SPOILERS) Union X: The Plot Thickens

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Published on January 30, 2020 @ 06:15 am
Written by Cecily
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5 story quests have been added! Thanks to goldpanner for the translations!

(King Candy swims through the code, linking cables to a Heartless node. Vaneloppe’s node is left disconnected and forgotten.)

(Player spots Vaneloppe fixing up her kart. They approach her.)

Vaneloppe: Hey! Thanks for the help back there!

(Meanwhile, Ralph is lurking about.)

Ralph: I can't get my medal back if I'm in jail.

(He spots Vaneloppe.)

Ralph: It's that little crumbsnatcher.

(...and Player as well.)

Ralph: And you're here too, you thorn in my side.

Vaneloppe: What do you think? Take another gander. Pretty great, huh?

Built it myself!

(She proudly shows off her pedal pusher. Player is concerned.)

Vaneloppe: What do you mean, protection? You're saying I have to back out of the race?

No way.

I paid my fee. I'm on the board. So yeah, I'm definitely racing.

(Suddenly, Flap Bugs appear! Player tries to hold them back but some get away and start destroying Vaneloppe's kart.)

Vaneloppe: Stop. You're breaking it!

(Ralph watches this unfold and decides to stand up to them.)

Ralph: Hey! Leave her alone!

(He and Player team up to combat the bugs.)

(Ralph and Player defeat the bugs. Vaneloppe returns to her now destroyed kart, visibly upset. She glares at Ralph.)

Vaneloppe: What are YOU looking at?

Ralph: You're welcome, you rotten little thief.

Vaneloppe: I'm not a thief. I just borrowed your stupid coin. I was gonna give it back to you as soon as I won the race.

Ralph: It's not a coin. It is a medal.

Vaneloppe: Coin. Medal. Just go back to your own dumb game and win another one.

Ralph: I can't. I didn't win it in my game. I won it in Hero's Duty.

You better get it back for me, toot-sweet, sister!

Vaneloppe: Well, unless you've got a go-kart hidden in the fat folds of your neck, I can't help you.

(She gets an idea.)

Vaneloppe: Look, you want that medal, right? And I want to race. So, here's what I'm thinking; you help me get a new kart, a real kart, and I'll win the race and get you back your medal.

Ralph: You want me to help you?

(Vaneloppe gestures to Player.)

Vaneloppe: Well, why not? Besides, they've already agreed to it.

(Player is caught off guard but still nods.)

Come on, what do you say, friend?

Ralph: We are not friends.

(Vaneloppe tries to appeal to Ralph.)

Vaneloppe: Ah come on, pal. You son of a gun.

Come on buddy, let's shake on it.

Come on chumbo. Ralph, my man. My main man.

(Ralph continues to snub her.)

Vaneloppe: Hey, my arm's getting tired. We have a deal or not?

Ralph: You better win.

(He takes Vaneloppe's hand. She offers her other one to Player. The three link together.)

Vaneloppe: Alright! Then we're off to the Kart Factory!

(Brain and Ephemer wait on the hill for Chirithy to return.)

Chirithy: I brought them~

(He runs towards Brain and leaps onto his lap. Brain stands up and sets Chirithy down.)

Brain: Thanks.

(Ven and Skuld arrive. Brain is surprised but plays it cool.)

Ven: Brain, Ephemer, you were together?

What's going on?

Ephemer: Both of them?

(He looks at Brain, who in turn looks at Chirithy disapprovingly.)

Chirithy: Hey, nothing I could do about it~

(Chirithy leaves.)

Ven: Hey guys, did you see? It's snowing!

Skuld: Chirithy said you had something to tell us. Why did you call us all the way out here?

Brain: Mmm~ guess we’ll have to make this work.

I have some questions for you.

Who appointed you to be a Union Leader?

Skuld: Lady Ava, of course.

Ven: Yeah, it was Lady Ava.

Ephemer: No, it wasn't.

Skuld: Huh?

Ven: Uh?

(Brain continues.)

Brain: Where were you and Lady Ava when this happened?

Skuld: Right here.

Ven: For me, it was… near the tower.

Brain: …I see.

(Brain and Ephemer exchange looks. Skuld notices and confronts them.)

Skuld: What's going on? This feels like an interrogation.

Ephemer: We have our reasons, Skuld.

Ven: Are we suspects or something?

Brain: The truth is, Lady Ava entrusted something to me and me alone.

(He takes out the Book of Prophecies.)

Skuld: That's…! The Book of Prophecies??

Brain: Yes, but that's not the issue.

Lady Ava slipped a note inside this book. Written on it were the names of the five Union Leaders, with a circle drawn around the name of the leader who was supposed to receive the Book of Prophecies.

Skuld: Supposed to…?

You mean, your name wasn't circled, Brain?

Brain: It's wasn't. I figured that out when the book was given to me.

(He thinks back to his meeting with Ava.)

Brain: Lady Ava wanted to change the future written in the Book of Prophecies, and so she gave the book to me instead of the leader originally intended to get it.

But, there's one more problem. The names of the Union Leaders.

Among these five names, there’s one who isn't here with us today: Strelitzia - Lauriam's little sister.

Skuld: What? So, did Lady Ava change that too?

Brain: I don't think so.

As you all know, Strelitzia is missing. It's possible that something has happened to her.

If Lady Ava was behind the change in Union Leaders, she wouldn't have had a reason to give me this note in the first place.

She certainly isn't above suspicion in regards to Strelitzia's disappearance, but I don't believe she would do such a thing.

Skuld: What if she appointed another Union Leader because she knew something had happened to Strelitzia?

Brain: Strelitzia was last seen before the bell tolled to signal the start of the Keyblade War. Despite hesitating over whether to even join the Dandelions herself, she became desperate to invite Player.

It’s likely that she was appointed by Lady Ava to be a Union Leader, and thus found out about the Keyblade War.

If Lady Ava was recasting these roles on such short notice, she would have told someone. At the very least, she would have told me, the one she entrusted with the Book of Prophecies in order to change our destinies.

Skuld: That's true…

Was Laurium's name on the note?

Ephemer: Yes, it was.

Lauriam has been dealing with the matter surrounding Strelitzia, so we plan on talking to him once we learn more about what happened.

Brain: The questions we asked you before helped us to determine whether or not the person involved was aware of this replacement. That way, things won't change between us even once the truth is out.

That's what Ephemer and I decided on when we discussed this.

Ephemer: I don't think this person was aware of their situation.

So, I’d like for us to continue working together just like we’ve been doing, as friends, in order to solve this mystery.

(Brain approaches Ven and puts his arm around him.)

Brain: Ventus, your name wasn't on the note.

(Maleficent descends into the depths of the tower.)

Maleficent: Well I never. This place has terrible security.

Darkness: That's because nobody ever comes down here, seeing as how it is forbidden.

Maleficent: You were like this with the ark as well.

You're quite familiar with the forces on this side. Exactly what kind of connection do you have here?

Darkness: Let’s just say, they’re a very, very old acquaintance.

Maleficent: And why does this acquaintance of yours need me to return to my original time?

Darkness: You're to become a guide.

Maleficent: Guide?

Darkness: Didn't I explain this already? In order to transcend time, one needs an intermediary that can reconstruct their flesh, and people who remember them.

Those things don't exist in the future for the people who reside here.

So, if we send you back, you can act as a guide for them.

Maleficent: The denizens of this world will travel to the future?

Darkness: You'll get to return to your original time no matter what. Why bother with the rest of the details?

Maleficent: Hmph! Very well.

(Darkness leads Maleficent towards a gate, lined with gears. It appears to be a dead end.)

Darkness: This is it.

How do we get inside?

(Darkness opens a large corridor.)

Maleficent: I see.

(She finds herself in a large room with a strange contraption lined with capsules (it's the room in the Hollow Bastion portal of the World Terminus in KH1) Maleficent approaches one of the capsules.)

Maleficent: Is this it?

Darkness:Yes.

(The lid pops open, and Maleficent peers inside.)

Darkness: If you wish to return right away, get inside.

Maleficent: No, I don't think I will.

Darkness: If you know what's good for you, you'll go back without digging too deep.

(Suddenly, the sound of the gate opening rings out.)

Maleficent: Well, who do we have here?

(Darkness disappears. A voice calls out.)

???: What are you doing here?

(It's Lauriam!)

Lauriam: I hope you realize, I’m required to take you down.

(He summons his Keyblade, Divine Rose.)

COMMENTS

+ Reply

Sign

January 30, 2020 @ 06:24 amOffline

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HI EXCUSE ME

VEN IS THE REPLACEMENT

THE ARK!!! THE PLACE FROM THE WORLD TERMINUS!!! LAURIAAAAAAM

Sign

January 30, 2020 @ 06:24 amOffline

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Any

January 30, 2020 @ 06:26 amOffline

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Ventus fans, don’t worry. We all know Vanitas or whatever Darkness will be blamed ?

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yuyayuzu

January 30, 2020 @ 06:30 amOffline

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Actually I hoped that was not the case but fine... When they made roxas came back from life, I think they would do the cheap way anyways. Now I saw the video, Ventus is so quiet and Skuld is the one arguing. Finally females that is not sidelined

Luminary

January 30, 2020 @ 06:40 amOffline

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Ok bringing back the machine from the World Terminus is too cool. One the series’ oldest mysteries. I always just assumed it was an early concept for a machine built by the apprentices to separate hearts from bodies.

Absent

January 30, 2020 @ 06:55 amOffline

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Is that same place with the poem that Mickey quotes in 0.2?

Twilight Lumiair

January 30, 2020 @ 07:16 amOffline

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And here... It... Is. :ROFLMAO:

Shoulda seen this coming a mile away, tbh
(ESPECIALLY after ReMind hammered it home)

Also, glad to see them finally using that secret chamber from KH1. Is that the ark, I wonder?

Absent

Is that same place with the poem that Mickey quotes in 0.2?

Yep! Though I think he only quoted a couple lines of it.

Zip

Ok bringing back the machine from the World Terminus is too cool. One the series’ oldest mysteries. I always just assumed it was an early concept for a machine built by the apprentices to separate hearts from bodies.

Same honestly. For a while I used to think that maybe they were scrapped Chambers for the PoH, but then I realized the number was off XD After that I just figured it was another room in Radiant Garden that Ansem used.

Violet Pluto

January 30, 2020 @ 07:30 amOffline

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Just woke up and checked this on a whim. I'll process this when I get up for real. See you then.

ivaannom

January 30, 2020 @ 07:36 amOffline

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yuyayuzu

January 30, 2020 @ 07:52 amOffline

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I will try to translate from 5:38, this is just rough translation so better wait for proper one but I feel like translating
Chirithy: Here they are
Brain: Thanks
Ven: Brain, Ephemera , You are together all the time? What's the matter?
Ephemera: Two people? ( I think because only ven is intended)
Chirithy: There's no other option
Ven: Hey, do you look at the snow?
Skuld: You said you need to talk but why do you bring us here?
Brain: Well, fine. Then, let me ask something. Who assigned you as a leader?
Skuld : Master Ava
Ven: Yeah, it's master Ava
Ephemer: well, this is wrong? ( I don't know how to translate this sentence properly because it depends on the conversation later)
Ven and SKuld: ?
Brain: Where was Master Ava at that time?
Skuld: It was here
Ven: Mine was ...
Ven: Near the tower
Brain: I see
Skuld: What is this? It feels like interrogation
Ephemera: We have reasons, Skuld
Ven: We are being suspected for something?
Brain: Actually, there was something that only I received from Master Ava
Skuld: That is book of prophecy?
Brain: Yeah, but that's not what's important now
Brain: In this book, there is a memo that is left from Master Ava which contains the names of the 5 union leaders and who is supposed to receive the book circled in red
Skuld: Supposed to? You are not circled, Brain?
Brain: Yeah, actually I realized it when she gave me the book
Brain: Master Ava wants to change the future that is written in the book so she gave me the book instead of supposed one.
Brain: But there is one more thing. The problem is the names of the leaders. There is one person here whose name is not on the list and lauriam's sister Strelitizia name was on the list
Skuld: Huh? Is that also Master Ava's doing?
Brain: I think that's not it. As you know, Strelitzia is going missing which means probably something happened to her. If the replacement of the leaders is also her doing, she don't need to give me the note. Strelitzia missing makes Master Ava suspicious but I don't think she is the person who will do that
Skuld: Maybe because something happened to Strelitizia makes her to appoint another leader?
Brain: Last info on where Strelitizia is seen was before that bell before keyblade war rang. When Strelitzia herself doubts on joining the dandelion but decides to invite player
Brain: Probably because she heard from Master Ava keyblade war was going to happen
Brain: If the replacement happens at that short time, at least there will one person who will be infomed
Brain: At least to me , who received the book
Skuld: Yeah. Lauriam's name was also on the list?
Ephemer: Yeah, and because Lauriam also has Strelitizia's case to deal with, we plan to talk to him after we figured out more
Brain: I wanted to confirm if the replacement realizes that he is replacement or not by the questions just now
Brain: So even if we know the truth, our relationship won't change
Brain: And I discussed with Ephemera
Ephemera: I think he doesn't realize it so for figuring out the cause of this , we need to work together like before
Brain: Ventus , your name was not on the list

Marluxia part will be tranlasted later

GreyouTT

January 30, 2020 @ 07:53 amOffline

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DraceEmpressa

January 30, 2020 @ 07:57 amOffline

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And to think the one Maleficent has been trailing in Corona wasn't Sora all along.... oh, and Corona is Latin for "crown", and crowns of laurel leaves are often used to signify high status in ancient Rome or Greece. Sheesh, Nomura, calm down with the royalty symbolism.

GreyouTT

January 30, 2020 @ 08:08 amOffline

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Hey didn't the secret reports in 3 say they were planning a second world line jump.


?

Twilight Lumiair

January 30, 2020 @ 08:18 amOffline

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ivaannom



Damn.. just noticed how pained Ephemer looks throughout this whole conversation. Like, you can tell discussing this stuff is not easy for him.

GreyouTT

Hey didn't the secret reports in 3 say they were planning a second world line jump.

?

Correct. And if you're implying certain characters could attempt to use the ark to escape their "cage", that might not be too far off. I could see each chamber sending them off one by one, but they all accidentally end up in different time periods (perhaps due to some kind of rush?). The implication, based on the reports, is that it was prompted by the "virus"/Ava's ace in the hole, implying that perhaps Blain thought it up. It wouldn't be out of character, considering all his declarations about being the "virus that rewrites the world", or something like that.

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Any

January 30, 2020 @ 08:18 amOffline

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Guys, Do you think someone behind the scenes is pretending to be Ava due to what Ventus said?

Twilight Lumiair

January 30, 2020 @ 08:21 amOffline

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Any

Guys, Do you think someone behind the scenes is pretending to be Ava due to what Ventus said?

That seems to be the implication (especially with Blaine's later comment). Well, that... Or he's lying. But he looked pretty sincere in the moment.

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Any

January 30, 2020 @ 08:28 amOffline

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Twilight Lumiair

That seems to be the implication (especially with Blaine's later comment). Well, that... Or he's lying. But he looked pretty sincere in the moment.


Uh oh, cloning is back. I don’t think Venty is lying either

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yuyayuzu

January 30, 2020 @ 08:36 amOffline

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Maleficent: This place is so guardless
Darkness: Originally, this place isn't allowed to be entered so nobody came in
Maleficent: Not only about the box, you are quite familiar with this place, aren't ya? What's your relationship with this place?
Darkness: An ancient people? ( I am not sure)
Maleficent: And why is that ancient people troubled if I don't return to my era?
Darkness: To be destination
Maleficent: Destination?
Darkness: Originally the residents in the world here does't have a future ( ??? not sure)
Darkness: So if you return to your era , you will become their destination
Maleficent: The resident of this world to the future?
Darkness: No matter what it is, you have no other option than to return to the future
Darkness: Everything else doesn't matter, does it?
Maleficent: Hmph, fine

Darkness: Here
Maleficent: How do get in?

Maleficent: I see

Maleficent: Is this it?
Darkness : Yeah
Darkness: Without further ado, please get inside
Maleficent: It seems like I cant do that
Darkness: You better get back without searching something else ( Searching is searching personal matter something like that)
Door noises
Maleficent: You see
Lauriam: Why are you here?
Lauriam: I may need to defeat you depending on the matter

AdrianXXII

January 30, 2020 @ 09:08 amOffline

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Darn so it was Ven. I like that they're making it very likely that he was tricked and isn't the murderer of Strelitzia. Ven killing Sterlinzia just clashes too much with how Xehanort described him in his reports.

My current theory is that Darkness is the one that did the deed and who will later implant themself into Ven or be sealed within him, which will later mix with Ven's darkness to create Vanitas. Right now it seem pretty clear that Ven and Darkness are two different entities, with the events of the inspection and infiltration seemingly happening at the same time. Guess Darkness knew Ava appointed the leaders but didn't know where she did it.

Having those chambers reappear is very unexpected. Seems despite meshing well with KH1 Hallow Bastion they aren't actually creations of the apprentices. Guess DDD (or was it coded) already confirmed they weren't used to deheart the apprentices, but cool to see it brought back. Though weren't there only 4 lying directly at the machine with two on the walls?

Sephiroth0812

January 30, 2020 @ 09:15 amOffline

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I think the theory that someone impersonated Ava and gave Ven the rulebook gets more and more likely.

It also looks like Ven doesn't even know he is the replacement.

Also kudos to Blaine handling all this much better and with more care than the original Foretellers. They would have probably already descended into another argument.

Also gotta love Maleficent dissing on the sloppy security of the Foreteller castle.

Mirby

January 30, 2020 @ 09:16 amOffline

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This is probably me misinterpreting things or restating things that were already known but could the "worlds" we visit in World Terminus in KH1 be data versions of them that were created by the ark that is also there? Or is that not one of the ark's functions?

Dast

January 30, 2020 @ 09:34 amOffline

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Twilight Lumiair

Correct. And if you're implying certain characters could attempt to use the ark to escape their "cage", that might not be too far off. I could see each chamber sending them off one by one, but they all accidentally end up in different time periods (perhaps due to some kind of rush?). The implication, based on the reports, is that it was prompted by the "virus"/Ava's ace in the hole, implying that perhaps Blain thought it up. It wouldn't be out of character, considering all his declarations about being the

The secret reports say that the imposter is the virus, meaning it's Ven, at least as far as Luxu knows.

AleMustDie

January 30, 2020 @ 09:39 amOffline

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Poor Ventus. He suffer of some Bipolar Disorder for Vanitas' fault

Sephiroth0812

January 30, 2020 @ 09:42 amOffline

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Dast

The secret reports say that the imposter is the virus, meaning it's Ven, at least as far as Luxu knows.


Luxu may be misinformed or further developments will re-contextualize things as Blaine pretty blatantly declared himself the virus in previous story updates.

Who knows, considering both Ephemer and Blaine say their relationship won't change I could even see them all "working as part of the virus" in order to try and change the predetermined outcomes.

Knowing Ven to be the replacement also doesn't give much more insight on the whole Strelitzia case and him apparently being totally clueless means there's definitely some outside force at work.

AdrianXXII

January 30, 2020 @ 09:55 amOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Luxu may be misinformed or further developments will re-contextualize things as Blaine pretty blatantly declared himself the virus in previous story updates.

Who knows, considering both Ephemer and Blaine say their relationship won't change I could even see them all "working as part of the virus" in order to try and change the predetermined outcomes.

Knowing Ven to be the replacement also doesn't give much more insight on the whole Strelitzia case and him apparently being totally clueless means there's definitely some outside force at work.

The way the report is worded it seems like Luxu is just observing from afar and isn't completely in the loop. We have yet to see the Leaders attempt to escape to another world line. He attributes the attempt to do that to Ven, but honestly that sounds more like Brain than Ven.

In theory Brain could also be seen as a type of imposter, he wasn't meant to get the Book of Prophesies, but calling him the imposter when Ven really wasn't meant to be there is a bit of a stretch. However him being a virus in the MoM's plan works with him not being the intended owner.

I'm fairly certain there is an outside force at work, especially with Darkness calling itself an "Ancent People" in [USER=246601]@yuyayuzu[/USER] 's translation. Makes it seem likely it's not one of the foretellers to me.

LoneFox

January 30, 2020 @ 09:59 amOffline

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Damn, I thought I had solved this... Still, a lot of the logic I used applies to this new situation as well.

1. The Master of Masters wants to restore light after it expired. He has created some data worlds and trapped the Dandelions in them. The natural connection for these two things is that he is creating a utopia dominated by light. He locks the device that runs the data worlds into a box, transports it to the far future, and then plans to turn the data worlds into real ones, restoring light. If this is the case, he would want the Dandelion leaders to be as hard as possible to corrupt by darkness. He seems to have used humility as the key characteristic, as can be seen by observing how they react to being selected as leaders. Also, humility is the opposite of pride, the missing deadly sin. Now, since Lauriam is not humble and also ended up becoming a villain, it is clear that he isn't supposed to be one of the leaders. What is wrong here? MoM knows that this simple version of the plan will not work, so he has to adapt it to deal with the problems that have arisen. Lauriam being there must be a consequence of such adaptation.

2. Ven was named as replacement by Ava. If he wasn't, he wouldn't know where to go to meet the others. Also, he would have to deal with a very disapproving Chirithy, who probably would have ratted him out a long time ago. Additionally, Ven told the others what Ava had said to him, and Ephemer & Skuld confirmed this by saying that they got exactly same speech.

3. But Ava was very reluctant to make any changes. Even when she gave the Book of Prophecies to Brain, she also gave him the list of names, so he could see the change and revert it if he thinks it is the right thing to do. So, if she did name a replacement, she would have informed the others about it. Except, if it happened under circumstances where she had no possibility to do so. The battlefield of the Keyblade War provides such circumstances. With Lauriam, I assumed she was mortally wounded when she did it. With Ven, she probably just wanted to save him from being killed in the war.

4. Lauriam's behavior as union leader seems out-of-character to me. He is bending the rules to avoid conflict between the Dandelions, such as delaying re-establishment of the five unions, and shifting Shift Pride from a real combat sport to a video game. Other than that, he isn't doing any leading at all. Yes, he is genuinely worried about Strelitzia, but it seems to be a bit too much for him to neglect his duties because of that. It is also exactly what Ava would want him to do if he was the replacement, which is why I suspected him to be in the heart hotel business.

5. Just to pre-emptively counter any nonsensical speculation about Ven's darkness that is going to follow from this: Xehanort extracted all darkness from Ven's heart when Vanitas was created. Any darkness that is there in KH3 must have gotten there after that event, and therefore cannot be conneted to what happens in KHUx.

So, what do you think? Have I missed something?

Edit: Also, it seems to be proven that the Darkness is Not A Very Dark Darkness. All it is doing is helping to get rid of Maleficent by sending her back to her own time. In fact, it probably is MoM himself stopping by...

kaialone

January 30, 2020 @ 10:57 amOffline

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LoneFox

5. Just to pre-emptively counter any nonsensical speculation about Ven's darkness that is going to follow from this: Xehanort extracted all darkness from Ven's heart when Vanitas was created. Any darkness that is there in KH3 must have gotten there after that event, and therefore cannot be conneted to what happens in KHUx.

So, what do you think? Have I missed something?


Ventus and Vanitas rejoined with one another at the end of Birth by Sleep, so any darkness inside Ven in KH3 could've easily gotten back into Ven. Right?

Alpha Baymax

January 30, 2020 @ 11:23 amOffline

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Looks like Ventus wielding Missing Ache was symbolic after all. Good on the new Union Leaders for not immediately dismissing Ven after this revelation. This whole Ven and Darkness connection may be a catalyst to bring back Vanitas again.

And with Lauriam confirmed to be a Keyblade Wielder, looks like Elrena is one, too.

The_Echo

January 30, 2020 @ 11:24 amOffline

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[spoiler=Translation]
[Ephemera and Brain wait at the outlook]
???: I brought them~
[Brain's Chirithy hops into frame and onto Brain's lap. Brain puts him down.]
Brain: Thank you.
[Ven and Skuld walk in]
Ven: Brain, Ephemera, you're both here? What's going on?
Ephemera: Both of them?
Brain's Chirithy: Nothin' I could do about it~
V: Hey, did you two see the snow falling?
Skuld: We were told you had something to say, but why are you here?
B: Hmmm, well, whatever. There's something I'd like to ask. Who appointed you as Union Leaders?
S: Ava-sama.
V: Yeah, it was Ava-sama.
E: Nope, that's not right.
S/V: What?
B: Where did Ava appoint you?
S: It was right here.
V: I... was near the tower.
B: ... I see.
S: What is this? Feels like an interrogation.
E: There's a reason for that, Skuld.
V: Is there something you don't trust about us?
B: Truth is, there's something Ava-sama gave only to me.
[Brain produces the Book]
S: That! Is that the Book of Prophecies??
B: Yeah, but the problem isn't that. In this Book, Ava-sama left a note. On it were the names of the five Union Leaders, and originally, one of them was circled.
S: "Originally?" You're not the circled name, Brain?
B: Yeah, I sensed that when I was entrusted with the Book. Ava-sama wanted to change the future written here, so instead of the original Leader, she entrusted the Book to me. But, there's one more problem, in the names of the Union Leaders. Among the five names, one of them isn't in the Union Leaders. Lauriam's sister, Strelitzia's name is there.
S: Huh? Then, Ava-sama changed that too?
B: I don't think so. Strelitzia's whereabouts are unknown. Something might have happened to her. If the Union Leader change is Ava-sama's intention, then it wasn't necessary to give me this note at all. I don't doubt Ava-sama's involvement with Strelitzia, but I don't think she'd do something like that.
S: Maybe because something happened to Strelitzia, another person was appointed as Union Leader?
B: Strelitzia was witnessed just before that bell rang to start the War. Strelitzia, who was hesitation about being a Dandelion, became desperate to invite Player into the Dandelions. Ava-sama probably appointed her as Union Leader, and told her about the Keyblade War. In that short time, if there was a change in Ava-sama's knowledge, she'd have to tell the truth to someone. To me, to whom she'd entrusted the Book to change fate.
S: I see... Was Lauriam's name there?
E: Yeah, it's there. I'm going to tell him we've learned a little more about Strelitzia's case.
B: So with that previous question, someone who was aware they were a replacement would point themselves out. Therefore, knowing the truth doesn't change our relationship. I spoke with Ephemera and decided that.
E: I don't think the person is aware of the change. So to clarify how this mystery came to be, I want us to continue working together as we have until now.
B: Ventus. Your name wasn't on the note.

[Maleficent is in the tower]
M: This place sure lacks security.
Darkness: Originally, entry was forbidden, but nobody's here now.
M: I still don't know what your purpose is, with this ark or with me. What in the world is your concern here?
D: An old, old friend.
M: Then, this old, old friend will be in trouble if I don't return to my original time? Why?
D: You'll mark me.
M: Mark?
D: I told you earlier, didn't I? In order to transcend time, you'll require a body to inhabit, and people who remember you. By nature, nobody in this world will be in the future for that. Therefore, if you return to the future, you'll have marked the people living in this world.
M: To take the people here into the future?
D: In any case, having you return to your own time isn't all. There are other things I can do.
M: Hm! Have it your way.
[Maleficent approaches a large clockwork]
D: Right here.
M: How do I get in?
[Darkness creates a Corridor]
M: I understand.
[Maleficent and Darkness appear in a room with the large machine from the World Terminus in KH1]
M: Is this it?
D: Yeah. Climb in there to quickly return.
[Maleficent gets a sinister look on her face]
M: Actually, I don't think I'll do anything of the sort.
D: I can continue my investigation without you returning.
[A sound like clocks/locks turning comes from offscreen. Maleficent looks behind her. Darkness disappears.]
M: Look at that.
???: What are you doing in this place?
[It's Lauriam]
Lauriam: Do I have to take you down?
[Lauriam summons his Keyblade, Divine Rose]
[/spoiler]

TL;DR
Ephemera and Brain believe that Ava was aware of the change in Union Leaders, but not responsible for it.
Ventus is the replacement, but he was not aware of it and believes it was Ava who appointed him.
Darkness reveals he's helping Maleficent for "an old, old friend" and that her going back to the future will fulfill the requirement of needing someone who remembers you for the people in Daybreak Town.
Lauriam is based.

LoneFox

January 30, 2020 @ 11:41 amOffline

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kaialone

Ventus and Vanitas rejoined with one another at the end of Birth by Sleep, so any darkness inside Ven in KH3 could've easily gotten back into Ven. Right?

You may have a point here. I don't remember exactly what happened there, I guess I need to rewatch that part of BBS...
But also, while thinking about this I remembered that in KH3 the scientists examined Sora's heart while Ven's was in it. If there was any major boogyman there, wouldn't they have seen it?

Anyway, thank you for pointing it out!

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yuyayuzu

January 30, 2020 @ 12:14 pmOffline

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when I searched for something related to ven I found a statement that also feels strange to me which is ven had said master ava is similar to skuld. If ven doesnt lie and fake ava ia the onw appoints him then that fake ava is similar to skuld? And skuld arguing on everything this time feels strange. Sure, the behaviour is not suspicious at all but sonething just feels strange. I maybe overthinking things and nomura just make the easy vanitas way but..

Edit: I forget it is Brain that said that and Ventus says so master ava is like skuld afterwards,

Sephiroth0812

January 30, 2020 @ 12:14 pmOffline

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kaialone

Ventus and Vanitas rejoined with one another at the end of Birth by Sleep, so any darkness inside Ven in KH3 could've easily gotten back into Ven. Right?


Except that Ventus rejected this reunion and that is not even getting into the fact that it was never complete to begin with.

I think the cutscene in the theater mode is even called "the return of the fractured heart" or something similar.

LoneFox

You may have a point here. I don't remember exactly what happened there, I guess I need to rewatch that part of BBS...
But also, while thinking about this I remembered that in KH3 the scientists examined Sora's heart while Ven's was in it. If there was any major boogyman there, wouldn't they have seen it?

Anyway, thank you for pointing it out!


Tbh it was never explicitly explained what exactly happened with Vanitas' heart after BBS. The only constants we have is that Ventus rejected them joining together and that destroying the proto-X-blade damaged his heart again.
The exact fate of Vanitas' heart was never elaborated upon.

DraceEmpressa

January 30, 2020 @ 12:27 pmOffline

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Lauriam's keyblade is Divine Rose, and Marluxia's data battle in KH2 is in Beast's Castle. You get Divine Rose from Hollow Bastion, that teleporter room leads to Hollow Bastion. Marluxia's motif is about the rose petals, when Maleficent put up thorn bush to lock up Sleeping Beauty and roses are , of course, is about both petals and thorns. It wasn't Sora she was stalking in Corona, it was Marluxia....

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Any

January 30, 2020 @ 01:01 pmOffline

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I just realize Darkness was walking on the railings without falling. What if they fell off the railing now? Darkness is crazy.

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EternalDream

January 30, 2020 @ 01:19 pmOffline

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[SPOILER]So let me get this straight.

Travelling to the past requires a version of yourself to be at the destination, and you cannot change the future. (Ansem (as a heart after becoming a heartless) -> Young Xehanort, Maleficent (as a heart after Riku releases it) -> "Data-Maleficent").

Travelling to the future requires something that can grant you a body, and people who have met you at the destination. (Maleficent from UX to KH2, many of the Real Organization XIII members, maybe even the Foretellers through Luxu)

If you travel to the future, should you lose your body, your heart will go back to whence it came (Real Org members like Repliku or Ansem/Xemnas/YX going back to their respective time upon defeat) and it'll forget about what happened in the future.

Nomura is, at the very least, sticking to his own rules when creating a method to get the Dandelions to the future.

Maleficent meets the UX members in the past, so they now have someone that knows them in the present to travel to the future. The question is, what gives them their bodies back? Maleficent had her cloak and the fairies, and the organization had to use replicas, but...

Additionally, are Marluxia and Larxene truly the same as Luariam and Elrena, or was Nomura's quote from before actually literal? After all, removing their hearts should send that heart back to UX like what happens to the Real Org members, no? So the real Lauriam's heart went back to the past, and the nobody Marluxia then just developed his own heart? Unless the Ark does something special in this case...

In that case, I demand we see Maleficent's nobody, Nomura!

[/SPOILER]

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darknessofheart

January 30, 2020 @ 01:25 pmOffline

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So, once Maleficent returns to her time, she will be the reason the leaders can also travel, since she will seemingly meet them and have memories of them, however hidden and etched.

It seems Darkness was the one to tell her about the box. I always thought it was Xigbar until ReMind. So, I guess this truly means Xigbar having the other members look for the box was not a strategic move but a desperate hail marry attempt to protect it.

Also, MoM said that the ancient darkness took on the form of humans, so perhaps this is what darkness did to appear as Ava to Ven. It was also probably the one to connect the data town to the Wreck It Ralph world to give the leaders incentive to escape to another world line.

My questions now are, how much does Xehanort truly know? He released the darkness from Ven and was the one to enlist Maleficent and inform her of time travel to begin with. Is the darkness in league with MoM or his enemy?

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Nintandy

January 30, 2020 @ 01:44 pmOffline

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This could explain how Ventus ended up in Master Xehanort's time. Seeing (through the eye's gaze) that Xehanort needed somebody containing great light and great darkness to re-enact the Keyblade War, he could've been delivered through this machine as an ideal test subject. Correct me if I'm wrong though!

Also on a side note:
[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/machine-at-the-end-of-the-world.71250/[/URL]

I'm really excited that this person (and everyone else) finally got their answer!

Violet Pluto

January 30, 2020 @ 01:46 pmOffline

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Dang, "An old friend" could be MoM. If Darkness came from where he did, it could have plans against his plans or that play on them. They could even be working together; Or it could be that both of them are using the same means to work against one another. Maybe even that MoM doesn't care about Darkness' plans because they don't matter to his plans in the end.

Hearts in KH contain memories, so maybe something messes with the Dandelion's hearts in the transfer which is why most if not all of them we've seen seem to be amnesiac. Elrena isn't a leader so it's possible that either there are a lot more Dandelion Refugees than thought or that she uses up one of the spaces for either Ephemer or Brain. Scala ad Caelum was built on the ruins of Daybreak, so that could mean that one or both stayed in the past and built Scala; and Ephemera staying would fit with his ghost helping out in the Keyblade Graveyard.

I knew this update would make me think, but not this much I haven't even stated all of my theories

Ballad of Caius

January 30, 2020 @ 02:13 pmOffline

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Mirby

This is probably me misinterpreting things or restating things that were already known but could the "worlds" we visit in World Terminus in KH1 be data versions of them that were created by the ark that is also there?

It's a possibility, seeing as how those worlds we visit weren't fallen in darkness, meaning they couldn't be chunks of those worlds mashed into End of the World. It's also possible that, since the Kingdom Hearts in EOTW is the Heart of all Worlds, it's the Heart remembering pieces and chunks of the other worlds.

Also, this gives me hope that maaaaaaaaaaybe, the Chambers of Repose and Awakening will be retouched in Project Xehanort, seeing as how Nomura remembered this machine.

okhi12

January 30, 2020 @ 03:13 pmOffline

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Now I have a sudden urge to play through KH1 again just to visit that room in world terminus. Why does it have to be the only unrevisitable area from The End of The World? ?

FudgemintGuardian

January 30, 2020 @ 03:19 pmOffline

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THE! THE THING! THE THING FROM THE FIRST GAME! I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT BEFORE GETTING ON HERE HOW IT'S A BUMMER WE NEVER SAW IT AGAIN! AND NOW IT'S RIGHT THERE! ASDFGHJK!

destiny seeker

January 30, 2020 @ 03:37 pmOffline

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umm. So I went back to look at kh1 and there are only 5 spots on the machine there. Does that mean 2 people already used it? O.o

FudgemintGuardian

January 30, 2020 @ 03:45 pmOffline

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destiny seeker

umm. So I went back to look at kh1 and there are only 5 spots on the machine there. Does that mean 2 people already used it? O.o
We know Maleficent will be using one, so that just leaves a mystery person.

drew0512

January 30, 2020 @ 03:55 pmOffline

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I'm such a sucker for KH1 that this thing alone is enough to raise my hype to infinity and beyond

DraceEmpressa

January 30, 2020 @ 04:07 pmOffline

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I'd like to add that in the Japanese version, the text of the machine was specifically "children" of darkness and not just darkness. Considering how UX chars are mostly children...

Ballad of Caius

January 30, 2020 @ 04:36 pmOffline

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FudgemintGuardian

We know Maleficent will be using one, so that just leaves a mystery person.

It has to be Ventus the other one that used it. Ansem's Apprentices knew of the Thing's existence, meaning that Xehanort knew, meaning that this is probably where Ven was found.

Also, this could leave the room open for the Twilight Town Mansion Pods to make a reappearance.

Violet Pluto

January 30, 2020 @ 04:46 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

It has to be Ventus the other one that used it. Ansem's Apprentices knew of the Thing's existence, meaning that Xehanort knew, meaning that this is probably where Ven was found.

Also, this could leave the room open for the Twilight Town Mansion Pods to make a reappearance.


"It looks like they've been used." By WHOM, WHEN, WHY, NOMURAAAAA!

Noivern

January 30, 2020 @ 04:57 pmOffline

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Good evening, I sure woke up to a lot today!

Ballad of Caius

It's a possibility, seeing as how those worlds we visit weren't fallen in darkness, meaning they couldn't be chunks of those worlds mashed into End of the World. It's also possible that, since the Kingdom Hearts in EOTW is the Heart of all Worlds, it's the Heart remembering pieces and chunks of the other worlds.

Also, this gives me hope that maaaaaaaaaaybe, the Chambers of Repose and Awakening will be retouched in Project Xehanort, seeing as how Nomura remembered this machine.



What do you mean by that? I always understood that the worlds featured in EOTW are the ones lost to Darkness and the place itself is gone after we finish of Ansem SoD, meaning they were restored after that. This is a genuine question btw.

Ballad of Caius

It has to be Ventus the other one that used it. Ansem's Apprentices knew of the Thing's existence, meaning that Xehanort knew, meaning that this is probably where Ven was found.

Also, this could leave the room open for the Twilight Town Mansion Pods to make a reappearance.



The idea that Ventus was found in a pod makes a lot of sense too considering they have the emblem that Xehanort would later make his own symbol.

Could also be the basis for the technology of Ansem the Wise, and how he learned about Data and everything. Tron mentions in KH2 that he disliked him as well (at the time when Sora still believed SoD was the original Ansem) because he hickjacked the program and made it his own security system. Could it be that the Tron world is originally from Daybreak Town and Ansem reverse-engineered from the capsule where Subject X came from, possibly Skuld?

By the way, I love that this gives more credit to my theory that Daybreak Town was never rebuilt into Scala like so many believe thanks to the reflections in the water. Waiting until march to get another update is going to be hard.

--------------

Now, about Ven and Vanitas.

Vanitas is my favorite Kingdom Hearts character, which is partly influenced by the extra chapters of the BBS novel that humanize him further than just "lol darkness". I'm not sure what to think of all of this, but I still don't believe he is Darkness. Although he was smarter than Ventus and seemed more self aware about things, he still didn't seem like he had his own agenda, not even when brought back in 3. But at the same time, now that I think about it, we never actually saw Vanitas and Xehanort interacting properly. Never had it stated what Vanitas was gaining from acting under him, and yet he still complied.

I'm open to see where this is going and I will take any Van content I can get, but if they do end up making a bigger deal about him than just being Ventus' darkness (and thus making Ven more than just a simple boy who got caught in in two wars and was used by multiple people for their own goals, which ended up making him become super strong later on), then I hope his character is fleshed out properly and isn't just a boring enbodiment of Darkness.

I'm not necessarily looking for a redemption arc for him or anything, but if he's stepping up as a important character and possibly turning into a main villain, then I hope he gets good writing in the way.

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kristi-swat

January 30, 2020 @ 05:15 pmOffline

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can we also account for a second all the boostrap paradox that is happening in this series? first it was old xehanort going back to his younger self and teaching him about the outer world, in remind future sora helps the guardians thus influencing the past, now maleficent a character from the future acts as a catalyst for transportation of ven and the rest which basically causes the rest of kh bbs and beyond to occur in the first place... mind boggling

Violet Pluto

January 30, 2020 @ 05:20 pmOffline

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kristi-swat

can we also account for a second all the boostrap paradox that is happening in this series? first it was old xehanort going back to his younger self and teaching him about the outer world, in remind future sora helps the guardians thus influencing the past, now maleficent a character from the future acts as a catalyst for transportation of ven and the rest which basically causes the rest of kh bbs and beyond to occur in the first place... mind boggling

Don't forget the eternal Paradox that is the Master of Masters and Luxu giving him the knowledge to do what he does, by taking his Keyblade and Eye along with him through the years.

Dast

January 30, 2020 @ 05:30 pmOffline

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Noivern

The idea that Ventus was found in a pod makes a lot of sense too considering they have the emblem that Xehanort would later make his own symbol.


Extending the idea would also explain how Xemnas identified Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene as bearing the 'ancient keyblade legacy', if they were found in pods too (I can't remember if any of the 4 talk much about their pre-organization lives)

Sign

January 30, 2020 @ 05:33 pmOffline

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Dast

Extending the idea would also explain how Xemnas identified Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene as bearing the 'ancient keyblade legacy', if they were found in pods too (I can't remember if any of the 4 talk much about their pre-organization lives)


I wouldn't be surprised if Luxubar gave Xemnas certain hints about these four, since we know he was the one who recruited Marluxia.

Dast

January 30, 2020 @ 05:41 pmOffline

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Sign

I wouldn't be surprised if Luxubar gave Xemnas certain hints about these four, since we know he was the one who recruited Marluxia.

Oh yeah, that's right. I would ask why Xemnas would believe Xigbar about that but he and Xehanort didn't seem curious about Xigbar and the box either so I guess it's consistent

LoneFox

January 30, 2020 @ 05:55 pmOffline

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Uh, I seem to have completely missed this part:

yuyayuzu

Brain: Where was Master Ava at that time?
Skuld: It was here
Ven: Mine was ...
Ven: Near the tower

I guess I was suffering from information overload. But why didn't anyone point it out?

Anyway, this means there is a real possibility of a fake Ava. Which is somewhat interesting, because I used to look for someone posing as a female character, as it would mean they have taken her name. But can it matter anymore? The fox mask is hiding something for sure, and it makes sense for her to be in the Final World, but how could she be connected to Yozora?

EternalDream

Travelling to the past requires a version of yourself to be at the destination, and you cannot change the future. (Ansem (as a heart after becoming a heartless) -> Young Xehanort, Maleficent (as a heart after Riku releases it) -> "Data-Maleficent").

Travelling to the future requires something that can grant you a body, and people who have met you at the destination. (Maleficent from UX to KH2, many of the Real Organization XIII members, maybe even the Foretellers through Luxu)

If you travel to the future, should you lose your body, your heart will go back to whence it came (Real Org members like Repliku or Ansem/Xemnas/YX going back to their respective time upon defeat) and it'll forget about what happened in the future.

The Dandelions went to the future, but are suffering the effects of going to the past. Why?
Did some kind of malfunction (hint: starts with a V :LOL:) suddenly throw them back while they were going forward? Could such thing break the laws of time travel badly enough to give the results we are seeing, including disconnecting them from that last one?

Noivern

January 30, 2020 @ 05:57 pmOffline

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Dast

Oh yeah, that's right. I would ask why Xemnas would believe Xigbar about that but he and Xehanort didn't seem curious about Xigbar and the box either so I guess it's consistent

It's important to note that Xehanort first approached Braig and had him become his underling under the premise of giving him a Keyblade, which we now know why. So maybe Braig, later Xigbar, acted under the guise of being obsessed with the Keyblade so Xemnas did not pay much mind to it, putting it aside as just a fool who is in for more than what he knows.

That being said, I wonder when exactly Braig became Luxu, and if it was before BBS. Assuming he assumed that identity for quite a long time and Braig was one of the guards of Radiant Garden, maybe he's been stationed in that place and assuming multiple identities because he's been keeping tabs on one of the capsules that landed there.

Considering how this whole deal might give more info on how Ansem even obtained his technology in the first place, I wonder if Radiant Garden being called the "City of Light" is relevant.

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ultima-demi

January 30, 2020 @ 06:12 pmOffline

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I wonder if Strelitzia is gonna stay dead at this point. Thought the star was maybe something but...yeah

Dast

January 30, 2020 @ 06:55 pmOffline

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Noivern

It's important to note that Xehanort first approached Braig and had him become his underling under the premise of giving him a Keyblade, which we now know why. So maybe Braig, later Xigbar, acted under the guise of being obsessed with the Keyblade so Xemnas did not pay much mind to it, putting it aside as just a fool who is in for more than what he knows.

That being said, I wonder when exactly Braig became Luxu, and if it was before BBS. Assuming he assumed that identity for quite a long time and Braig was one of the guards of Radiant Garden, maybe he's been stationed in that place and assuming multiple identities because he's been keeping tabs on one of the capsules that landed there.

Considering how this whole deal might give more info on how Ansem even obtained his technology in the first place, I wonder if Radiant Garden being called the "City of Light" is relevant.

Very good points. Another thing I wonder about Luxu is, if he knew about the virus and the darkness, and assumedly knew that they travelled to another worldline, did he take steps to stop them from messing things up?

This is why I am still a little suspicious of Skuld, as the first secret report suggests that Braig may have been involved in hiding Subject X from Xehanort; he must have had a reason.

Sephiroth0812

January 30, 2020 @ 07:14 pmOffline

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Dast

Very good points. Another thing I wonder about Luxu is, if he knew about the virus and the darkness, and assumedly knew that they travelled to another worldline, did he take steps to stop them from messing things up?


Luxu seems to take his role very seriously and up until a certain point his role was to just watch as he explained to Ava so he probably wouldn't get himself involved.

If I recall the secret reports of KH 3 correctly Luxu didn't assume an active role in events until the "scapegoat" who would start the second Keyblade War revealed themselves which would mean he didn't start to take active steps before Xehanort got the No Name.

Yet on the other hand, there is still the whole issue with Xigbar/Luxu having such a vivid memory of Ventus staring angrily at him that he always remarks about it even when Roxas and Sora do it. So far chronologically BBS is the "first" instance of the glare by Ven himself but in BBS he didn't even have much to do with Xigbar/Luxu.

Dast

January 30, 2020 @ 07:49 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Luxu seems to take his role very seriously and up until a certain point his role was to just watch as he explained to Ava so he probably wouldn't get himself involved.

If I recall the secret reports of KH 3 correctly Luxu didn't assume an active role in events until the "scapegoat" who would start the second Keyblade War revealed themselves which would mean he didn't start to take active steps before Xehanort got the No Name.

Yet on the other hand, there is still the whole issue with Xigbar/Luxu having such a vivid memory of Ventus staring angrily at him that he always remarks about it even when Roxas and Sora do it. So far chronologically BBS is the "first" instance of the glare by Ven himself but in BBS he didn't even have much to do with Xigbar/Luxu.

Well I suppose Luxu will have to briefly take an active role in KHUX to bequeathe the No Name to one of the five masters so perhaps he will be glared at then

Noivern

January 30, 2020 @ 08:53 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812


Yet on the other hand, there is still the whole issue with Xigbar/Luxu having such a vivid memory of Ventus staring angrily at him that he always remarks about it even when Roxas and Sora do it. So far chronologically BBS is the "first" instance of the glare by Ven himself but in BBS he didn't even have much to do with Xigbar/Luxu.


Oh wow, that's a really good point. I never gave much attention to this before, if it actually turns out the glare happened in the distant past and not Birth by Sleep it's gonna be as big as this update revealing that the room we all thought was from Hollow Bastion was actually in Daybreak town, honestly.

I would have brushed it off before but considering the scene was important enough happen in Days before BBS even came out, hinting about who Xigbar really was, I can definitely believe that they purposely made us believe it was about his time as Braig when in reality it dated waaaay longer than that.

AdrianXXII

January 30, 2020 @ 08:54 pmOffline

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Dast

Well I suppose Luxu will have to briefly take an active role in KHUX to bequeathe the No Name to one of the five masters so perhaps he will be glared at then

Well it seems we've still got quite a bit of Union X left, so there's plenty of time for Ven to glare at Luxu. I'd imagine it'd either have to be a recurring thing or a memorable moment for Xigbar to make note of it the way he did.

Ballad of Caius

January 30, 2020 @ 09:19 pmOffline

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If Luxord ends up being in a pod, then this begs the question:
* Is Luxord originally from KHx/Ux and ended up in Verum Rex;
* Or is Luxord originally from VR and ended up in x/Ux?

kirabook

January 30, 2020 @ 09:26 pmOffline

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[spoiler]I'm still 100% positive Ven is not Strelitzia's murderer. It just doesn't make sense. Even with the new Re:Mind stuff, they reaffirmed that Ven is much too pure, even for his own good. I don't think "Darkness" has anything to do with Ven, as in, I don't think he possessed Ven and killed Strelitzia or has ever made Ven do something he didn't want to do.

I think Ven is "Darkness"'s vessel in the loosest terms possible. If the machine is the arc in the future, then Ven is the arc Darkness uses to reach it.

As for Vanitas, I'm positive that Vanitas is actually a combination of Ven's darkness (the little he had) and whoever "Darkness" is with Sora's influence coated on the very top of it all. It's why his back and forth statements on who he is and who he isn't are literally contradictory.

One moment he says his home is in Ven and he'll disappear if he goes back. In the other, he says he and Ven are not the same and have never been. So the only conclusion I can draw from that is Vanitas is MOSTLY Ven, but a little bit of "Darkness" too. I don't think Vanitas has ever acted on the whims of "Darkness" and I think Vanitas only has a surface level understanding/knowledge that he is more than just Ventus.

At the end of the day (his death), he seems to accept he will always be a part of Ven and Sora (their shadow).

"Darkness", on the other hand, seems to have a much bigger role to play than Vanitas ever has and I hope it stays that way. I do like Vanitas as an antagonist for our heroes, but I also prefer it stay... personal. If that makes any sense.

Been discussing these updates with a pal and I randomly threw out there that baldynort found amnesiac Ven in one of these pods, somehow knew "Darkness" hitched a ride in him, told Ven he was an orphan and he'd be looking out for him but in reality, Xehanort was trying to get "Darkness" to come out but soon realized Ven couldn't do it. Cause it's not Ven's darkness, but literally someone else in there.

Switching topics again. I might be misremembering, but when Ava told Strelitzia to be a new leader, that ALSO wasn't on the hill, was it? She was in town and Ava called out to her and gave her the book. Right? Neither Ven or Strelitzia met Ava on the hill?

Edit: She didn't.

[/spoiler]

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Any

January 30, 2020 @ 09:34 pmOffline

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I really hope there’s “angst” scenes with Ventus. He lacks confidence and just for Brain to confirm that Ven wasn’t on the list/wasn’t an actual member, will probably kill Ven’s self esteem even more. If I see or hear Ventus calling himself “useless” due to that, I might cry for him.

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kristi-swat

January 30, 2020 @ 10:02 pmOffline

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It makes sense if Subject X is Skuld and that means that Luxu recognizes her in RG and understands that she has ended up there from the past. Now looking at the other characters, then the options he has left to bequeath No Name are Brain and Ephemer since currently they are the only ones we don't know at which time they end up after time traveling. Since Eraqus resembles Brain, it might be that he is a great great(x100) grandson of Brain and it raises the possibility that Brain didn't go that far much into the future

Noivern

January 30, 2020 @ 10:22 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

If Luxord ends up being in a pod, then this begs the question:
* Is Luxord originally from KHx/Ux and ended up in Verum Rex;
* Or is Luxord originally from VR and ended up in x/Ux?



[spoiler] I'm starting to think that the room has been there before the Union Leaders even showed up and probably has come along with the MoM, so maybe Luxord has been sleeping in a pod all along.
Considering the technology we have seen in "Shibuya" and this unexpected extremely technological device contrasting against the clog-look Daybreak Town always had and matching the Data stuff, I'm starting to think MoM is a runaway from that world and the pods may be linked to how he crossed over.
It always irked me how the MoM never seemed to fit visually with the rest of the group, his iconic outfit clashing out way too much with the ancient regal outfits the Union Leaders wore. Now I can't stop thinking about how this room also clashes with everything else in Daybreak so far.

Also, can we all agree that this room is probably what was in the tower all along?

Maybe the Dandelions weren't actually transported into the Data World Sora and Roxas do and their physical bodies are sleeping in those pods, and the reason Lauriam keeps fading in and out of the story is because he realized that and is probably scouting the possible ruins of Daybreak to look for his sister. Maybe going into the data-version of the room is the way to get out into the real world just like the mansion in Twilight Town.

Ehh, I'm just ranting at this point. lol[/spoiler]

DraceEmpressa

January 30, 2020 @ 10:57 pmOffline

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One thing I remembered is that in BBS Xehanort, before inserting his heart to Terra, says Terra is "the ark that will sustain me." . And now, Darkness says the box contain an ark... The ark may not be a device, it could be someone.

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kristi-swat

January 30, 2020 @ 11:04 pmOffline

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Noivern

[spoiler] I'm starting to think that the room has been there before the Union Leaders even showed up and probably has come along with the MoM, so maybe Luxord has been sleeping in a pod all along.
Considering the technology we have seen in "Shibuya" and this unexpected extremely technological device contrasting against the clog-look Daybreak Town always had and matching the Data stuff, I'm starting to think MoM is a runaway from that world and the pods may be linked to how he crossed over.
It always irked me how the MoM never seemed to fit visually with the rest of the group, his iconic outfit clashing out way too much with the ancient regal outfits the Union Leaders wore. Now I can't stop thinking about how this room also clashes with everything else in Daybreak so far.

Also, can we all agree that this room is probably what was in the tower all along?

Maybe the Dandelions weren't actually transported into the Data World Sora and Roxas do and their physical bodies are sleeping in those pods, and the reason Lauriam keeps fading in and out of the story is because he realized that and is probably scouting the possible ruins of Daybreak to look for his sister. Maybe going into the data-version of the room is the way to get out into the real world just like the mansion in Twilight Town.

Ehh, I'm just ranting at this point. lol[/spoiler]

It’s not that far fetched. It’s been established since before that the dandies would be sleeping and going to the data world in their sleep

Xblade13

January 30, 2020 @ 11:08 pmOffline

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[Spoiler]Well, Darkness being a person certainly makes sense. In order for the X-blade to have been forged and then shattered, there'd have to be 13 of them. 7 Lights could be Player + 5 Union leaders + Elrena.[/Spoiler]

Ballad of Caius

January 31, 2020 @ 12:17 amOffline

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Noivern

I'm starting to think that the room has been there before the Union Leaders even showed up and probably has come along with the MoM, so maybe Luxord has been sleeping in a pod all along.
Considering the technology we have seen in "Shibuya" and this unexpected extremely technological device contrasting against the clog-look Daybreak Town always had and matching the Data stuff, I'm starting to think MoM is a runaway from that world and the pods may be linked to how he crossed over.
It always irked me how the MoM never seemed to fit visually with the rest of the group, his iconic outfit clashing out way too much with the ancient regal outfits the Union Leaders wore. Now I can't stop thinking about how this room also clashes with everything else in Daybreak so far.


I mean, the MoM is the Master of the Foretellers. We don't know how it happened, but it's possible that he designed their outfits. I doubt they were randomly wearing their uniforms. Also, does this mean that MoM is Verum Rex's Ardyn? He's survived various historical events, sooo...

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AR829038

January 31, 2020 @ 02:28 amOffline

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I'd love to know if the Thing here and the one in KH1 are actually somehow connected, or if Nomura is just reusing and repurposing the design. Or, are we supposed to understand that the room we went to in End of the World way back when was not, in fact, in Hollow Bastion, but rather Daybreak Town??? That would blow my mind, but I also wonder how it could be possible. End of the World was never a place that facilitated any kind of time travel.

DraceEmpressa

January 31, 2020 @ 02:43 amOffline

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Squirming Evil playing instead of Graceful Assassin, Scythe of Petals or Lord of the Castle hinting for Lauriam is the one who will gonna be rekt hard here...

Flower boy I love you, stop biting more than you can chew gdi

Ink Ribbon

January 31, 2020 @ 04:24 amOffline

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So just a bunch of jumbled thoughts. My brain is in overload right now lol.

After all of this, I wonder what has happened to Ava. I guess Darkness axed her or is preventing her from getting to the data realm altogether. Poor Ventus thinking he was getting the chance to be a union leader but got denied by fake Ava. I don't think Lauriam and Elrena are going to just believe he didn't know about being the imposter though. I'm predicting we're getting some kind of rift coming up soon.

That throwback to the End of the World machine from KH1 tho! I guess we're to assume Xehanort and the apprentices found those chambers and repurposed them for extracting hearts. MoM or Luxu could've been the one who knew where those pods were and influenced Xehanort into looking for them. I'm really going to need Project Xehanort to divulge into his time as Apprentice Xehanort and after. There's a ton of lore there to fill in some blanks during their descent into becoming Nobodies and forming the Organization.

As a random thought, if the Ark requires two points to travel to, is it possible there are multiple machines? There is the one shown there but maybe there's another in Verum Rex's world. We can assume that Luxord is Yozora's driver and was perhaps shot forward with Demyx and possibly Lauriam and Elrena too. He and Demyx could've been from there all along too though so it's hard to say with such little information. Maybe the MoM is from VR and used the machine to travel to Daybreak Town to specifically recruit keyblade wielders from that timeline.

Check out Lauriam being all badass and wielding Divine Rose. I can't see this ending well though. I have this feeling Maleficent and Lauriam are going to strike some kind of deal. Information on Strelitzia in exchange for remembering Maleficient in the future. We have seen Maleficient draw out Riku's inner powers/darkness so what's to say she doesn't do the same to Lauriam and Elrena. Could be an explanation for why they are so different now to their UX counterparts. Imagine those two with their Nobody personalities wanting to overthrow the others and get their own union leaders.

Hirokey123

January 31, 2020 @ 05:20 amOffline

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So I think it's actually kind of a jump to assume it's the same machine. I think what's more likely is that what AnsemSoD said is true, Ansem the wise HAS seen Subject X (Skuld's) memories. This machine most likely exists in her memories because it's most likely how she ended up traveling across time. When Ansem the Wise was trying to figure out the mystery behind subject X and looked into her memories he most likely saw the arc and thus he tried to recreate it which is why it's not quite a 1:1 but pretty close. Thus how the arc ended up in hollow bastion, it's Ansem the Wise's copy just like when he copied ENCOM's computer system to make his own. I bet you anything that's also how Ansem the Wise learned to create a datascape, people had taken note that the set up of the Daybreak Town control room was very similar to the digital twilight town computer setup right down to even the chair being similar in design. Instead of a callback perhaps the real truth is he also learned of Daybreak Town's control room and the digital daybreak town and he used that knowledge to build his digital twilight town and computer set up.

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roXas2.0

January 31, 2020 @ 06:03 amOffline

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DraceEmpressa

One thing I remembered is that in BBS Xehanort, before inserting his heart to Terra, says Terra is "the ark that will sustain me." . And now, Darkness says the box contain an ark... The ark may not be a device, it could be someone.

I wonder if Sora's heart acts as an ark, which is why Ventus's heart didn't go back to his timeline when he was fading away after his heart was damaged. Maybe that's why Sora can carry hearts and keep them safe: it's another form of heart time travel, where the injured/disappearing heart "arrives" in the future where it has a vessel waiting.

Dast

January 31, 2020 @ 07:58 amOffline

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kirabook

[spoiler]I'm still 100% positive Ven is not Strelitzia's murderer. It just doesn't make sense. Even with the new Re:Mind stuff, they reaffirmed that Ven is much too pure, even for his own good. I don't think "Darkness" has anything to do with Ven, as in, I don't think he possessed Ven and killed Strelitzia or has ever made Ven do something he didn't want to do.

I think Ven is "Darkness"'s vessel in the loosest terms possible. If the machine is the arc in the future, then Ven is the arc Darkness uses to reach it.

As for Vanitas, I'm positive that Vanitas is actually a combination of Ven's darkness (the little he had) and whoever "Darkness" is with Sora's influence coated on the very top of it all. It's why his back and forth statements on who he is and who he isn't are literally contradictory.

One moment he says his home is in Ven and he'll disappear if he goes back. In the other, he says he and Ven are not the same and have never been. So the only conclusion I can draw from that is Vanitas is MOSTLY Ven, but a little bit of "Darkness" too. I don't think Vanitas has ever acted on the whims of "Darkness" and I think Vanitas only has a surface level understanding/knowledge that he is more than just Ventus.

At the end of the day (his death), he seems to accept he will always be a part of Ven and Sora (their shadow).

"Darkness", on the other hand, seems to have a much bigger role to play than Vanitas ever has and I hope it stays that way. I do like Vanitas as an antagonist for our heroes, but I also prefer it stay... personal. If that makes any sense.

Been discussing these updates with a pal and I randomly threw out there that baldynort found amnesiac Ven in one of these pods, somehow knew "Darkness" hitched a ride in him, told Ven he was an orphan and he'd be looking out for him but in reality, Xehanort was trying to get "Darkness" to come out but soon realized Ven couldn't do it. Cause it's not Ven's darkness, but literally someone else in there.

[/spoiler]


I think you are right about Ven not being the murderer but I also think the series has shown that you don't really need to be particularly bad, per se, to be taken over by darkness. This is illustrated particularly by Buzz in KH3.

Before Buzz is taken over by a heartless he isn't shown to be malevolent or evil or selfish in any way, barring a little antagonism towards SDG. What Young Xehanort uses to put him under the control of darkness is not his evil, but rather an 'emptiness' at being separated from Andy, expressed by doubt and fear.

Ironically Buzz's fear of being taken over by darkness and attacking his friends actually helps this happen by increasing his doubt and anxiety. Buzz never wants to attack his friends, the opposite in fact, but he is still forced to do so by darkness

While the toys and Buzz are an analogy for replicas and Xion (and not a great analogy, in my view) I think you could apply some of that to Ventus too.

When Ven first meets Ephemer and Skuld, he expresses doubt in his own ability and worthiness to be a Union Leader, and notes that he hasn't really had friends before (also in Toy Box, YX talks about the 'Darkness of being alone' Vs the 'Light of friendship').

Why Ven can't utilise his darkness for Xehanort in BBS isn't clear but in the cutscene where Xehanort tries to make Ven fight, I get the impression that Ven is too scared to channel his darkness, and I think heater he talks about being afraid of being taken over by Vanitas (asking Aqua and Terra to kill him if that happens).

Furthermore, in KH3 Ven's Chirithy seems to think he is happier with his new friends, which suggests there is at least pain hidden in his memories, if not darkness.

EDIT: Come to think of it, Vanitas did take over Ventus in BBS and made him attack Aqua, so we know it could definitely happen

Sign

January 31, 2020 @ 08:04 amOffline

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Videos and transcripts are up in the OP. As always, thanks to goldpanner for translating! <3

kaialone

January 31, 2020 @ 10:54 amOffline

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Something I just thought about :

When Darkness first told Maleficent about "the ark", they told her that in order to access it, she'd first have to exit the data world, and go to the real version of the tower, and then find the ark there.

Meaning that, if this machine is really supposed to be the ark, Maleficent, Darkness, and Lauriam must already be in the real world right now.

In turn, this means Lauriam found a way to return to the real world as well.

So either Lauriam found this way back by following Maleficent, or found a way off-screen during his research, or knew how to go back all along and kept it from the others.

Now, I don't think this next part is true for sure, but what if Lauriam is behind the glitches in some form, or at least allowed it to happen, because he was trying to access data on Strelitzia of some kind? Like wanting to see her data form in order to figure out what happened, or maybe just to see her one more time.

In any case, curious to see if this will be adressed? (Or did I misunderstand something?)

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Genocide

January 31, 2020 @ 11:57 amOffline

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Sephiroth0812
Yet on the other hand, there is still the whole issue with Xigbar/Luxu having such a vivid memory of Ventus staring angrily at him that he always remarks about it even when Roxas and Sora do it. So far chronologically BBS is the "first" instance of the glare by Ven himself but in BBS he didn't even have much to do with Xigbar/Luxu.


That's because Xigbar was specifically referring to Roxas when that scene was written.
Nomura's writing has the benefit of seeming deep with foreshadowing, because of the "wiggle room" it has, due to it being vague.
"He used to give me that same look" has quickly been given the same retcon/mandela effect treatment as "He looks just like you" - which was Xemnas to Roxas about Sora; and "You look just like him" - Xemnas to Sora about Roxas.

Adding context to vague statements (which really aren't as vague as people think in this context) doesnt cgange anything. Xigbar was talking about Roxas. It's been long confirmed that Nomura has been making this stuff up as he goes along, and not planning things out.

Ballad of Caius

January 31, 2020 @ 03:07 pmOffline

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DraceEmpressa

Squirming Evil playing instead of Graceful Assassin, Scythe of Petals or Lord of the Castle hinting for Lauriam is the one who will gonna be rekt hard here...

Flower boy I love you, stop biting more than you can chew gdi

I'm guessing this is how Lauriam ends up in present day KH: Maleficent beat his behind and put him in one of the beds or Darkness suggested her to do so. It's possible Arlene followed Lauriam in there and Darkness also told Maleficent to do the same. Could be the reason as to why Ventus, Lauriam and Arlene all end up in different times in KH: Maleficent returns in the point in time when her crow brings her robe to the Fairies and Lauriam and Arlene end up just right when Xigbar was looking for new recruit.

Violet Pluto

January 31, 2020 @ 03:23 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

Arlene

Alrene? Not Elrena?

Ballad of Caius

January 31, 2020 @ 03:37 pmOffline

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Violet Pluto

Alrene? Not Elrena?

Sorry, Elrena, haha. My bad.

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AR829038

January 31, 2020 @ 03:37 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

I'm guessing this is how Lauriam ends up in present day KH: Maleficent beat his behind and put him in one of the beds or Darkness suggested her to do so. It's possible Arlene followed Lauriam in there and Darkness also told Maleficent to do the same. Could be the reason as to why Ventus, Lauriam and Arlene all end up in different times in KH: Maleficent returns in the point in time when her crow brings her robe to the Fairies and Lauriam and Arlene end up just right when Xigbar was looking for new recruit.

As much as I doubt that Maleficent could really hold her own against Lauriam, a Keyblade wielder with much more experience than Sora had when he whooped her ass in KH1, it would be nice all the same to see her totally own SOMEbody after being a joke villain for so long.

Zetsumei

January 31, 2020 @ 03:49 pmOffline

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AR829038

As much as I doubt that Maleficent could really hold her own against Lauriam, a Keyblade wielder with much more experience than Sora had when he whooped her ass in KH1, it would be nice all the same to see her totally own SOMEbody after being a joke villain for so long.


I honestly don't think Maleficent will fight him at all. I'm betting that Darkness will step in, and that battle will be how we get his/her identity reveal.

Sign

January 31, 2020 @ 07:04 pmOffline

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Lauriam got tired of progressing his own subplot by himself so he dumped it on the others and went off to do extremely shady business.

Sakuraba Neku

February 1, 2020 @ 12:42 amOffline

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All of them were good, but this is easily the best of the 4 updates! Not only we got another great cliffhanger, but more important we finally got some answers.

Ven is the fake leader and the ark is the machine from KH1 End of the World.

No doubt it's just a matter of time, until Sora's crown necklace has some meaning too

Ballad of Caius

February 1, 2020 @ 01:14 amOffline

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AR829038

As much as I doubt that Maleficent could really hold her own against Lauriam, a Keyblade wielder with much more experience than Sora had when he whooped her ass in KH1, it would be nice all the same to see her totally own SOMEbody after being a joke villain for so long.

I mean, it's not like these Wielders have been properly trained. And remember: Maleficent also has experience dealing with Wielders.

Zetsumei

I honestly don't think Maleficent will fight him at all. I'm betting that Darkness will step in, and that battle will be how we get his/her identity reveal.

Quite possible, seeing as how Darkness needs Maleficent to be to the future. Also, it's possible they may suggest have Darkness interfere without the need to reveal his/her identity (assuming Darkness has an identity and isn't just that darkness covered coat).

Sign

Lauriam got tired of progressing his own subplot by himself so he dumped it on the others and went off to do extremely shady business.

Yeah. There's something weird. It feels like we're missing something when he said "you know I have to get rid of you now". Feels like he knows something. Or maybe he finished his subplot and it ended somehow related to the reason as to why he's in that room in the tower is because the end of his search layed that out for him?

Sign

February 1, 2020 @ 01:57 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius

Yeah. There's something weird. It feels like we're missing something when he said "you know I have to get rid of you now". Feels like he knows something. Or maybe he finished his subplot and it ended somehow related to the reason as to why he's in that room in the tower is because the end of his search layed that out for him?


I agree. If this place is forbidden, why did Lauriam go down there? And his timing is impeccable, arriving there at the exact moment Maleficent might have hopped into the ark? Veeeery suspicious.

DraceEmpressa

February 1, 2020 @ 02:07 amOffline

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Sign

I agree. If this place is forbidden, why did Lauriam go down there? And his timing is impeccable, arriving there at the exact moment Maleficent might have hopped into the ark? Veeeery suspicious.

I think Lauriam actually doesn't care much about the rules and is willing to break the rules as long as he can get answers about Strelitzia, or even better, actually brings her back. Him later turning on the others because they hid the fact she was suppose to be an Union Leader too sounds likely.

Noivern

February 1, 2020 @ 02:15 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius

Maleficent returns in the point in time when her crow brings her robe to the Fairies and Lauriam and Arlene end up just right when Xigbar was looking for new recruit.

While I think you may be right on the first guess (Maleficent is quite capable and a version of her empowered by Darkness could be quite powerful), the later doesn't make much sense. The two Keyblade wielders seem to be in their teenage years in UX while they are adults by the time they turn into Nobodies, and there's that as well: they had to become Nobodies first. While I don't doubt that Luxu, knowing who they are, would turn them into Nobodies, he didnt have his Keyblade until after KH3, so that couldn't have happened.

AR829038

As much as I doubt that Maleficent could really hold her own against Lauriam, a Keyblade wielder with much more experience than Sora had when he whooped her ass in KH1, it would be nice all the same to see her totally own SOMEbody after being a joke villain for so long.


We have no idea how experient the Dandelions are, thought, except for maybe Ephemera and Skuld. They were chosen with their ability to lead in mind, not battle prowness. Sora is a dumbass but he was a really strong dumbass by the time he wips Maleficent's ass in KH1.

Also, I just realized: if Maleficent does get a power boost from Darkness to handle Lauriam, that's going to be the second time this happens with her, the first being right after Ansem releases the Darkness in her heart. I wonder if this is relevant somehow.

Sign

February 1, 2020 @ 03:16 amOffline

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DraceEmpressa

I think Lauriam actually doesn't care much about the rules and is willing to break the rules as long as he can get answers about Strelitzia, or even better, actually brings her back. Him later turning on the others because they hid the fact she was suppose to be an Union Leader too sounds likely.


Of course, but I don't think we can condense his presence there down to just "he doesn't care about rules and is just trying to find his sister." This series of events is way too convenient, and his reaction is suspect.

Hirokey123

February 1, 2020 @ 06:00 amOffline

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Hrm...a theory perhaps. I can see Maleficent using her powers to beat Lauriam, Maleficent is not weak she has a lot of skills and was pretty effortlessly able to capture Data Riku. She also never has been fought alone or at her full power alone. In BBS Ventus had the aid of the three good fairies and she seemed perfectly fine and in the Aqua fight she had the prince and fairies. When Sora fought her

I'm going to propose an idea, Maleficent will defeat Lauriam and then instead of kill him Darkness will tell her he needs to be sent forward in time. Now in doing this his body will be torn to shreds he'll lose himself and become just a heart and without a medium he will not be able to recompile so for a time he will just sort of "exist". Then Maleficent will send herself forward and that will be the end of her part. The union leaders will realize Lauriam is missing and try to find him and that will lead them to getting Elrena involved. Ultimately she will use the arc because she will try to find Lauriam.

LoneFox

February 1, 2020 @ 07:33 amOffline

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I think "forbidden" just mean that the regular Dandelions are not allowed to go inside the tower. It does not apply to the union leaders.

Maleficent's trope is putting people into magical sleep, and Lauriam/Marluxia seems to have learned it from somewhere as well, because he used it on Sora. Perhaps it was from personal experience at the receiving end of it?

Now, here is an interesting thought experiment: Let's undo the change Ava made and give the book and the list of names to Strelitzia like they were supposed to go. What happens, what will be different? I seem to have found something revealing, and I want to see if others come to the same conclusion...

AleMustDie

February 1, 2020 @ 10:16 amOffline

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Wait a sec. Im not really follow UX story since a lot of time
There is a recap somewhere?

I played KHIII and not yet the ReMind part. Just watched the Secret Ending on YT.

But Vanitas says Ia am darkness. Is it related to Darkness? I mean, when you defeat him.
Could it be that he recompose as Darkness after that?
If Ventus killed Strelitzia as Darkness, then Darkness becomes Vanitas later. And in the end, after Vanitas disappear, he's again Darkness.

Or I am completely lost?

AdrianXXII

February 1, 2020 @ 10:19 amOffline

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AleMustDie

Wait a sec. Im not really follow UX story since a lot of time
There is a recap somewhere?

I played KHIII and not yet the ReMind part. Just watched the Secret Ending on YT.

But Vanitas says Ia am darkness. Is it related to Darkness? I mean, when you defeat him.
Could it be that he recompose as Darkness after that?
If Ventus killed Strelitzia as Darkness, then Darkness becomes Vanitas later. And in the end, after Vanitas disappear, he's again Darkness.

Or I am completely lost?

There are a few YouTube videos summing it up. I recommend damo279

Ballad of Caius

February 1, 2020 @ 12:55 pmOffline

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Sign

I agree. If this place is forbidden, why did Lauriam go down there? And his timing is impeccable, arriving there at the exact moment Maleficent might have hopped into the ark? Veeeery suspicious.

Maybe that isn't Lauriam?

Noivern

The two Keyblade wielders seem to be in their teenage years in UX while they are adults by the time they turn into Nobodies,

I mean, it's possible they grew the same way Ienzo grew as Zexion. And we don't know what types of effects the Ark has on the person.

Noivern

While I don't doubt that Luxu, knowing who they are, would turn them into Nobodies, he didnt have his Keyblade until after KH3, so that couldn't have happened.

Good point, but it's not like he could have used Darkness to make them Nobodies or this is the moment that Luxigbar tells Xemnas about the Keyblade Legacy and the Superior turns them into Nobodies.

Noivern

I wonder if this is relevant somehow.

Could just be a callback to KH1.

Sign

Of course, but I don't think we can condense his presence there down to just "he doesn't care about rules and is just trying to find his sister." This series of events is way too convenient, and his reaction is suspect.

Exactly. How would he even know of the place? The Thing is exactly the kind of thing I imagine the MoM wouldn't really want the Dandelions to know about.

Hirokey123

Now in doing this his body will be torn to shreds

I'd like to propose that this could be a point where he turns into a Nobody. Assuming this is Lauriam, his strong will to keep looking for his sister could cause his body to not perish and immediately create his Nobody. Maleficent goes into a pod, so he decides to do the same thing.

Hirokey123

The union leaders will realize Lauriam is missing and try to find him and that will lead them to getting Elrena involved. Ultimately she will use the arc because she will try to find Lauriam.

Makes perfect sense and can see it happening.

LoneFox

I think "forbidden" just mean that the regular Dandelions are not allowed to go inside the tower. It does not apply to the union leaders.

We're even assuming the Union Leaders know of the room's existence. By the way Darkness talks about it, it's as if only the MoM and him know about it. Perhaps not even Luxu nor the Foretellers know about it.

Also, remember that the Ark is in the real Daybreak Town. Which is another reason as to why ask ourselves how and why does Lauriam know about that place, and again, I insist this may not be Lauriam.

LoneFox

Maleficent's trope is putting people into magical sleep, and Lauriam/Marluxia seems to have learned it from somewhere as well, because he used it on Sora. Perhaps it was from personal experience at the receiving end of it?

Nice observation, but it could be a reference to pollen = flowers.

LoneFox

Now, here is an interesting thought experiment: Let's undo the change Ava made and give the book and the list of names to Strelitzia like they were supposed to go. What happens, what will be different? I seem to have found something revealing, and I want to see if others come to the same conclusion...

Can't say, seeing as how, even though Ava deviated from the MoM's plan, I don't have a doubt in mind that he planned for a scenario where Ava would do that.

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Any

February 1, 2020 @ 01:57 pmOffline

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Oh god, what if Maleficent yeets Lauriam into the machine to test it out.

Blizzard-

February 1, 2020 @ 02:20 pmOffline

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I’m fairly positive most of the KHUX cast that gets drop kicked into the future do arrive around the same time. Yes Ven is much younger than the others (and we really don’t know what age subject x is at our current time), but he didn’t age for ten years. If the others didn’t become nobodies until closer to KH1, it’d make sense that they appear about 10 years older than Ven.

LoneFox

February 1, 2020 @ 02:49 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

We're even assuming the Union Leaders know of the room's existence. By the way Darkness talks about it, it's as if only the MoM and him know about it. Perhaps not even Luxu nor the Foretellers know about it.

Also, remember that the Ark is in the real Daybreak Town. Which is another reason as to why ask ourselves how and why does Lauriam know about that place, and again, I insist this may not be Lauriam.

We seem to have a little misunderstanding here. When Maleficent and the Darkness talk about lack of security, they are not in the room yet, but in a corridor. They are clearly talking about the tower as a whole and not the hidden room.

Luxu and the foretellers definitely don't know about the ark. MoM kept it secret, because he doesn't want them to to make the obvious connection between it and his disappearance. This is one of the main reasons why I think the Darkness is actually MoM himself: the Darkness knows too much to be anyone else.

Lauriam has been doing suspicious things since the beginning. Why was he late from their first meeting? Why he refused to participate in gathering ingredients for the pets? Why is he not interested in being a leader? And why the Shift Pride thing? The way that scene happens makes it quite obvious that it is meant to be a clue.

Ballad of Caius

Nice observation, but it could be a reference to pollen = flowers.

The interesting part of it is at the end, when Sora gets kissed out of the sleep by a male horse. There appears to be some hidden meaning in that scene, in addition to the obvious Disney humor and almost as obvious gay reference, but I still don't understand exactly what it is.

Noivern

February 1, 2020 @ 04:35 pmOffline

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LoneFox


Luxu and the foretellers definitely don't know about the ark. MoM kept it secret, because he doesn't want them to to make the obvious connection between it and his disappearance. This is one of the main reasons why I think the Darkness is actually MoM himself: the Darkness knows too much to be anyone else.



I don't think it's him, there's no reason for him to present himself like that when Maleficent never saw him before, and that's Maleficent before KH2: up to that point, she had never met any members of the Organization so it's not like she would associate that cloak with anyone either.

[spoiler]I think the scene from Re:Mind between the MoM and Young Xehanort may be relevant here: he talks about the younger one one day being strong enough to ditch that Cloak, while he himself can't really do that.

Maybe he extracted the Darkness from his own Heart for unknow reasons and that's what the being is. He wears the Cloak as protection so it wouldn't find him again, or so it can't easily possess him, I'm not sure. Xehanort had to learn about the method of putting a Heart of Pure Light against one of Pure Darkness to forge the Chi-Blade from somewhere, since that's not how it went out in the first Keyblade War, unless there's a second war between UX and his era?

I would not be surprised if someone with the same power to serve as a heart-hotel like Sora existed before and the MoM is linked to that person somehow, which is why he hides his face. Maybe even Ventus, making a huge parallel between their situations. lol[/spoiler]

Hirokey123

February 1, 2020 @ 06:36 pmOffline

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I am thinking the MoM might be....

[spoiler] One of the last natural pure beings. Remember darkness was born in hearts later after the war over the true light began and now we know he participated in actual original keyblade war. This means the MoM may have been a person who was born without darkness and has a heart devoid of it, a truly pure heart, and wears the coat because unlike the seven hearts he isn't immune to the infection of Darkness so this is how he protects his heart. Likewise I suspect Darkness might be the reverse, one of the original beings of Darkness that fought in the very first keyblade war, a formless infectious force that can hide within people and change shape.

A natural born being of pure light and a natural born being of pure darkness, the only ones of their kind left, and the last survivors of the original war that started it all. I wouldn't be surprised if this ties to the talk of false light, maybe the MoM and Darkness seek to bring back true light and darkness to the world and everyone else who contains both are in their eyes false. Ruined warped beings born in a broken failed world that is at constant struggle with itself.

In that sense that comes back to my theory that the purpose of the coat is to let people of light walk and act as people of darkness, that's why it disguises them and protects them from it. All the org members were false darknesses, lights temporarily lead astray playing a role even Xehanort for a time until he embraced it all. I suspect the reverse is true of the foretellers they are false lights, destined darknesses who were delayed from their destined path and played the role of guardians when truly they were seekers/destroyers. The DLC entries state they all wear white robes...now like it's kind of a stretch IMO to call them white robes but you at least get the parallel that they are a reverse organization of sorts.

I think maybe this connects to the dream eaters as well. The old organization, Xehanorts plans, they were all about the heartless and nobodies really. The Foretellers however are tied to the dream eaters, represented best by their Chirithy helpers they all have...but also in the fact that they dress a brightly colored animals. Dream Eaters are interesting because they are not light they are darkness, but they are darkness that takes on two forms. Benevolent spirits that consume the darkness and return it to light, creating happy dreams and wicked nightmares that imprison and draw things deeper into sleep and darkness. This goes back to my whole Foretellers are actually darkness and always were, they were false lights which MoM gave a chance to lead the world for a bit and they destroyed it which is what he is alluding to with YX when he says letting false light lead is a lousy idea.

I'm sure this ties to Yozora as well, if MX was a scapegoat, a falsity, then it stands to reason Sora who was his parallel is the same a stand-in, someone who isn't a true king of light. A false hero for a false villain, Yozora meanwhile is the true king meant to be the parallel to the MoM even though we haven't yet fully established it. Xehanort posed a question to Sora, if the world need someone to lead it then who if not him, and Sora didn't have an answer for that only that he could tell Xehanort wasn't the right one. Maybe Yozora is or maybe the end message will be that the world doesn't need a leader at all and that it needs to stop being held back by these relics of an era already long gone, who knows.... [/spoiler]

Noivern

February 2, 2020 @ 08:41 pmOffline

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Hirokey123

I am thinking the MoM might be....

[spoiler] One of the last natural pure beings. Remember darkness was born in hearts later after the war over the true light began and now we know he participated in actual original keyblade war. This means the MoM may have been a person who was born without darkness and has a heart devoid of it, a truly pure heart, and wears the coat because unlike the seven hearts he isn't immune to the infection of Darkness so this is how he protects his heart. Likewise I suspect Darkness might be the reverse, one of the original beings of Darkness that fought in the very first keyblade war, a formless infectious force that can hide within people and change shape.

A natural born being of pure light and a natural born being of pure darkness, the only ones of their kind left, and the last survivors of the original war that started it all. I wouldn't be surprised if this ties to the talk of false light, maybe the MoM and Darkness seek to bring back true light and darkness to the world and everyone else who contains both are in their eyes false. Ruined warped beings born in a broken failed world that is at constant struggle with itself.

In that sense that comes back to my theory that the purpose of the coat is to let people of light walk and act as people of darkness, that's why it disguises them and protects them from it. All the org members were false darknesses, lights temporarily lead astray playing a role even Xehanort for a time until he embraced it all. I suspect the reverse is true of the foretellers they are false lights, destined darknesses who were delayed from their destined path and played the role of guardians when truly they were seekers/destroyers. The DLC entries state they all wear white robes...now like it's kind of a stretch IMO to call them white robes but you at least get the parallel that they are a reverse organization of sorts.

I think maybe this connects to the dream eaters as well. The old organization, Xehanorts plans, they were all about the heartless and nobodies really. The Foretellers however are tied to the dream eaters, represented best by their Chirithy helpers they all have...but also in the fact that they dress a brightly colored animals. Dream Eaters are interesting because they are not light they are darkness, but they are darkness that takes on two forms. Benevolent spirits that consume the darkness and return it to light, creating happy dreams and wicked nightmares that imprison and draw things deeper into sleep and darkness. This goes back to my whole Foretellers are actually darkness and always were, they were false lights which MoM gave a chance to lead the world for a bit and they destroyed it which is what he is alluding to with YX when he says letting false light lead is a lousy idea.

I'm sure this ties to Yozora as well, if MX was a scapegoat, a falsity, then it stands to reason Sora who was his parallel is the same a stand-in, someone who isn't a true king of light. A false hero for a false villain, Yozora meanwhile is the true king meant to be the parallel to the MoM even though we haven't yet fully established it. Xehanort posed a question to Sora, if the world need someone to lead it then who if not him, and Sora didn't have an answer for that only that he could tell Xehanort wasn't the right one. Maybe Yozora is or maybe the end message will be that the world doesn't need a leader at all and that it needs to stop being held back by these relics of an era already long gone, who knows.... [/spoiler]


That's the one thing I don't think everyone actually agrees on: was there more than one Keyblade War, and when? Sometimes people talk about the "true Keyblade War", but that doesn't really make sense. MoM created the Keyblades as we know them after the Chi-Blade. While I think there might have been a second instance (which may be the very reason we don't hear of Scala or other Keyblade Wielders in present time), the first one is supposed to be the one from Chi. It's the very reason that game even exists, really, to explain how it happened.

While I don't doubt that there was a conflict in the distant past before the Foretellers even came along, I don't think it was a Keyblade War. Or if it was, then it was not in the Kingdom Hearts world.

The observation between a possible relationship between the Foretellers and the Dream Eaters is really good, though. I never thought much of it, but the whole idea behind the little companions had always seemed very weird and unexplained to me. Going by that logic, would you consider Dark Chirity to be their true nature, then?

Dast

February 2, 2020 @ 08:55 pmOffline

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Noivern

That's the one thing I don't think everyone actually agrees on: was there more than one Keyblade War, and when? Sometimes people talk about the "true Keyblade War", but that doesn't really make sense. MoM created the Keyblades as we know them after the Chi-Blade. While I think there might have been a second instance (which may be the very reason we don't hear of Scala or other Keyblade Wielders in present time), the first one is supposed to be the one from Chi. It's the very reason that game even exists, really, to explain how it happened.


But very recently in KHUX (Cornerstones of the World's Rebirth), the MoM does talk about the keyblade war beginning when he was a boy, and also says that there were other keyblade wielders.

Sign

MoM: … Anyway, so, when I was still but a boy, the Keyblade War began. Luxu: What!?? You mean, a Keyblade War happened in the past, too? MoM: …Yes, that's right. Luxu: So, did you have a Master, Master? MoM: Nope. Luxu: What was the war between? MoM: Light and Darkness, what else? Luxu: Light? Were there other Keyblade wielders besides you, Master? MoM: Hmm… technically there were, but I'm the only one who's relevant.

Noivern

February 2, 2020 @ 09:00 pmOffline

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Dast

But very recently in KHUX (Cornerstones of the World's Rebirth), the MoM does talk about the keyblade war beginning when he was a boy, and also says that there were other keyblade wielders.


Ah, I knew this was familiar, I just couldn't really piece everything up. This gives me some ideas for my other thread.

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Kirankrt

February 3, 2020 @ 12:32 amOffline

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Wow...I need to catch up on this...haven't even played it.

Praying to god Candy is at least a boss in this though. Gaston, i understand why not but come on, PLEASE make Cybug Candy a boss.

Now I haven't played this because I just think its silly to have to pay a mobile game to understand half of KH3 and so on and so forth.

LoneFox

February 3, 2020 @ 11:08 amOffline

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LoneFox

Now, here is an interesting thought experiment: Let's undo the change Ava made and give the book and the list of names to Strelitzia like they were supposed to go. What happens, what will be different? I seem to have found something revealing, and I want to see if others come to the same conclusion...

Since nobody seems to be interested, here is what I've got:

First, the book itself doesn't do anything, because Strelitzia wouldn't open it. It may change things once the killer gets it in his hands, but then we have no way of knowing what he does with it, so it is a dead end.

The list on the other hand leads to something very interesting. When Strelitzia sees her brother's name on it, she knows that she can talk to him without any fear of revealing secrets, because he would know about them already. She also knows that he is good at manipulating people, he did convince Strelitzia herself to join the Dandelions, surely he can do the same to the Player. So, she asks him to do that, and he agrees to help. He tries to find the Player the same way Strelitzia herself did, goes into that building and, assuming the killer behaves the same way regardless of who is there, he gets killed instead of Strelitzia. The killer then tricks Ven into becaming the replacement as he did in the real timeline, and we get the humble five just like they should be!

Now, this looks like I'm trying to force things to be like I think they should be rather that how they actually are. I'm fully aware of that, it is why I wanted someone else to discover it too. That said, I don't think it has any holes other than the assumption about the killer. Still, it is speculation that doesn't seem to matter...

But then we have Luxu. Quote from his secret report:



Yet, it seems someone has pulled the old switcheroo. One of the Five is an imposter, someone the Master did not choose. They represent a virus in the program he so carefully wrote.
The virus has begun a strange undertaking: a reckless plot to allow the Five to escape into another worldline. Surely such a thing can't be possible? We're talking about the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War. But these children are no Masters. They haven't the means...unless, of course, a certain lady of magic summoned here from the future knows more than I do.
The whole Union leader thing was supposed to be by the books. Are these new events just another phase in the Master's grand plan?



With the information we currently have, this does not make sense. He is clearly talking about the stuff Lauriam is doing, and identifying him as the replacement. I think we should believe Luxu. The secret reports tell the story: he has not only read the Book of Prophecies, including the lost page, but he has also understood much more of it than any of the foretellers ever did. He seems to hint that there is something in the book that allows him to identify the replacement, perhaps a cryptic description of either the leaders themselves or the criteria used for selecting them.

But we know that Ven is the replacement, so this is a contradiction... or is it?

There is a way around it: The Master of Masters added Lauriam on the list instead of Ven, because he knew that the killer would do the switch, which would then result in the five he actually wanted to be the leaders. He tried to work around one traitor (the killer), but was foiled by second one (Ava). Now the question is, did he see that coming?

Dast

February 3, 2020 @ 12:42 pmOffline

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LoneFox

Since nobody seems to be interested, here is what I've got:

First, the book itself doesn't do anything, because Strelitzia wouldn't open it. It may change things once the killer gets it in his hands, but then we have no way of knowing what he does with it, so it is a dead end.

The list on the other hand leads to something very interesting. When Strelitzia sees her brother's name on it, she knows that she can talk to him without any fear of revealing secrets, because he would know about them already. She also knows that he is good at manipulating people, he did convince Strelitzia herself to join the Dandelions, surely he can do the same to the Player. So, she asks him to do that, and he agrees to help. He tries to find the Player the same way Strelitzia herself did, goes into that building and, assuming the killer behaves the same way regardless of who is there, he gets killed instead of Strelitzia. The killer then tricks Ven into becaming the replacement as he did in the real timeline, and we get the humble five just like they should be!

Now, this looks like I'm trying to force things to be like I think they should be rather that how they actually are. I'm fully aware of that, it is why I wanted someone else to discover it too. That said, I don't think it has any holes other than the assumption about the killer. Still, it is speculation that doesn't seem to matter...

But then we have Luxu. Quote from his secret report:

With the information we currently have, this does not make sense. He is clearly talking about the stuff Lauriam is doing, and identifying him as the replacement. I think we should believe Luxu. The secret reports tell the story: he has not only read the Book of Prophecies, including the lost page, but he has also understood much more of it than any of the foretellers ever did. He seems to hint that there is something in the book that allows him to identify the replacement, perhaps a cryptic description of either the leaders themselves or the criteria used for selecting them.

But we know that Ven is the replacement, so this is a contradiction... or is it?

There is a way around it: The Master of Masters added Lauriam on the list instead of Ven, because he knew that the killer would do the switch, which would then result in the five he actually wanted to be the leaders. He tried to work around one traitor (the killer), but was foiled by second one (Ava). Now the question is, did he see that coming?

I am not sure if we can assume with much certainty how Streltizia would have acted had she been given the list but I think you could be right to consider what the MoM actually wanted to happen with the Union Leader succession and how, indeed if, events deviated from that plan.

In that Secret Report you quote Luxu does ask whether this was actually part of the MoM's plan all along. I would have assumed that the murder/replacement was not part of the plan and Ava's giving the book and list to Brain was anticipated by the MoM, knowing Ava as he does but thinking about it I am less sure.

I am going to do my own wild speculation now: what does the list do, that we know? It allows the replacement to be identified. So if the MoM knew about the replacement then he could ensure that they would be found out, as Brain has just done.

Now Brain seems to be sympathetic to Ven, and not assuming that he is the the killer. Now maybe another union leader, having discovered the replacement, would immediately jump to the conclusion that the replacement was the killer, and maybe even seek vengeance, as a grieving brother might do.

I can't say why the MoM would want things to happen that way but it's another possible chain of events

DarknessInZero

February 4, 2020 @ 08:44 pmOffline

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Xblade13

[Spoiler]Well, Darkness being a person certainly makes sense. In order for the X-blade to have been forged and then shattered, there'd have to be 13 of them. 7 Lights could be Player + 5 Union leaders + Elrena.[/Spoiler]


What if the Keyblade War that MX talks about was not the one that Ava started....but a new one that we have yet to see with those 13 darknesses and 7 lights? Since the X-blade hasn't even been mentioned at all in KHUX yet....

Twilight Lumiair

February 4, 2020 @ 10:38 pmOffline

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I feel like no one's addressing the most obvious questions there are to make given the reveal.

If Ven truly is the replacement, yet he also isn't the killer, then what in world is he DOING HERE? The natural conclusion would be that someone posed as Ava and gave Ven his rulebook, but.... Why? Assuming this is the same person who killed Strelitzia, what was the purpose of setting up this switch in the first place? Why choose to swap her out with Ventus of all people? Why bother to swap her out at all (especially since we now know she didn't even have the BoP)?

It's not like Ven could've hepled carry out some secret agenda, because up until now he was kept completely oblivious to the fact that he was even planted to begin with. He was never going to have the BoP either (and the culprit should've already recognized this since, again, Strelitzia clearly didn't have it when she died), so it's not like he had the agency or knowledge to change the future in any kind of way once he was appointed. He's not shown to be particularly smart, proactive, or confident about his abilities or his judgement. In fact, Ventus himself was confused about why he was ever approached about being a Union Leader when he was so "unremarkable" when it came to performing his duties (and the fact that he seemingly didn't have any friends prior to meeting Ephemer and Skuld, makes it hard to think he would've had strong charisma or leadership skills). In other words, it was virtually impossible for his presence to make a real impact on the situation outside of drawing suspicion, but even Ephemer is content to just working together to solve the mysteries of their "cage" like they were before this topic came up. Nothing changed.

To be blunt, if a third party swapped out Strelitzia with Ven, it doesn't seem to amount to... anything. Unless Ven does something big that only he can do (which, as we've established, isn't much), I don't see why he would've been planted into this group at all. It's redundant.

Eonstar890

February 5, 2020 @ 12:10 amOffline

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Twilight Lumiair

I feel like no one's addressing the most obvious questions there are to make given the reveal.

If Ven truly is the replacement, yet he also isn't the killer, then what in world is he DOING HERE? The natural conclusion would be that someone posed as Ava and gave Ven his rulebook, but.... Why? Assuming this is the same person who killed Strelitzia, what was the purpose of setting up this switch in the first place? Why choose to swap her out with Ventus of all people? Why bother to swap her out at all (especially since we now know she didn't even have the BoP)?

It's not like Ven could've hepled carry out some secret agenda, because up until now he was kept completely oblivious to the fact that he was even planted to begin with. He was never going to have the BoP either (and the culprit should've already recognized this since, again, Strelitzia clearly didn't have it when she died), so it's not like he had the agency or knowledge to change the future in any kind of way once he was appointed. He's not shown to be particularly smart, proactive, or confident about his abilities or his judgement. In fact, Ventus himself was confused about why he was ever approached about being a Union Leader when he was so "unremarkable" when it came to performing his duties (and the fact that he seemingly didn't have any friends prior to meeting Ephemer and Skuld, makes it hard to think he would've had strong charisma or leadership skills). In other words, it was virtually impossible for his presence to make a real impact on the situation outside of drawing suspicion, but even Ephemer is content to just working together to solve the mysteries of their "cage" like they were before this topic came up. Nothing changed.

To be blunt, if a third party swapped out Strelitzia with Ven, it doesn't seem to amount to... anything. Unless Ven does something big that only he can do (which, as we've established, isn't much), I don't see why he would've been planted into this group at all. It's redundant.


I have two plausible answers for you:

1. Whoever took out Strelitzia may have had knowledge that she was intended to receive the book, but did not know about Ava's switch meaning their main objective in doing so was to obtain their own book of prophecies.

2. It is less about how Ventus adds to the group and more about preventing Strelitzia from impacting them. Perhaps the killer really did not want to see Strelitzia have any sort of influence over the group or in their eyes she was a traitor or enemy in some way.

I am confused as to how the individual would have knowledge that seemingly only the MoM should have, but it leads to me believe that "Darkness" is someone from the past. Specifically the time when the MoM was younger and fought in the Keyblade War. After all this individual definitely knows a whole lot about Daybreak town, and I don't think even the foretellers knew as much about the ark and what not. I am also assuming the darkness = killer which could also be wrong.


I was really expecting the reveal of the replacement to feel more conclusive, but I feel like I have more questions now then ever...

Twilight Lumiair

February 5, 2020 @ 12:46 amOffline

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Eonstar890

1. Whoever took out Strelitzia may have had knowledge that she was intended to receive the book, but did not know about Ava's switch meaning their main objective in doing so was to obtain their own book of prophecies.

So they killed her, but thanks to Ava's meddling, they came up empty handed? I could buy that, but that doesn't explain why they would bother assigning a replacement. Especially when they could infiltrate the group themselves (it would be the logical next step if they were really THAT desperate to get ahold of the BoP). Also, that still doesn't explain why they specifically picked Ven to be the replacement Union Leader. If he's just some rando, then why bother with the replacement at all? Cause whether he's there or not, the new Union Leaders were going to find out about Strelitzia eventually, and "Darkness" (assuming they're one in the same) hasn't taken any steps to slow that development down.

Eonstar890

2. It is less about how Ventus adds to the group and more about preventing Strelitzia from impacting them. Perhaps the killer really did not want to see Strelitzia have any sort of influence over the group or in their eyes she was a traitor or enemy in some way.

If the culprit seriously didn't want Strelitzia influencing the group.... why? What could she have possibly done to prompt someone to make such an extreme action? She definitely didn't come off as someone who would make THAT big of an influence on the future. The defining aspects of her character was that she's was incredibly shy and timid. Later she's shown to be so anxious about being a Union Leader that she has trouble falling asleep. Did she really seem like someone who'd have a loud voice within this group? I'm not so sure... Also, we never see her do anything suspicious prior to being killed (the only thing she even had time to do after being given her role was look for [Player]), so I'm not sure why someone would view her as "traitorous" of all things.

Still, interesting theories. I appreciate the response ?

Blizzard-

February 5, 2020 @ 01:23 amOffline

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Twilight Lumiair

I feel like no one's addressing the most obvious questions there are to make given the reveal.

If Ven truly is the replacement, yet he also isn't the killer, then what in world is he DOING HERE? The natural conclusion would be that someone posed as Ava and gave Ven his rulebook, but.... Why? Assuming this is the same person who killed Strelitzia, what was the purpose of setting up this switch in the first place? Why choose to swap her out with Ventus of all people? Why bother to swap her out at all (especially since we now know she didn't even have the BoP)?

It's not like Ven could've hepled carry out some secret agenda, because up until now he was kept completely oblivious to the fact that he was even planted to begin with. He was never going to have the BoP either (and the culprit should've already recognized this since, again, Strelitzia clearly didn't have it when she died), so it's not like he had the agency or knowledge to change the future in any kind of way once he was appointed. He's not shown to be particularly smart, proactive, or confident about his abilities or his judgement. In fact, Ventus himself was confused about why he was ever approached about being a Union Leader when he was so "unremarkable" when it came to performing his duties (and the fact that he seemingly didn't have any friends prior to meeting Ephemer and Skuld, makes it hard to think he would've had strong charisma or leadership skills). In other words, it was virtually impossible for his presence to make a real impact on the situation outside of drawing suspicion, but even Ephemer is content to just working together to solve the mysteries of their "cage" like they were before this topic came up. Nothing changed.

To be blunt, if a third party swapped out Strelitzia with Ven, it doesn't seem to amount to... anything. Unless Ven does something big that only he can do (which, as we've established, isn't much), I don't see why he would've been planted into this group at all. It's redundant.


There’s also the possibility that whomever appointed Ven knew he’d be important in the future. Given all the information the person who appointed him must know, it’s not too far fetched. Ven is one of the 7 guardians who clashed to forge the X-blade, and the gazing eye would definitely have seen that.

Dast

February 5, 2020 @ 03:07 amOffline

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Well, the real answer to the questions about why Ven is the replacement is that he isn't. Skuld is; I explain this at length in another thread but a good quick argument is this : watch Skuld closely a) When Brain brings out the BoP, b) When he mentions Strelitzia, c) When he reveals Ventus's name wasn't on the note. Obvious shock at a), c), no visible shock at b).

I am quite confident of that but if Ven were the replacement, I can still offer you some possible answers.

Twilight Lumiair

So they killed her, but thanks to Ava's meddling, they came up empty handed? I could buy that, but that doesn't explain why they would bother assigning a replacement. Especially when they could infiltrate the group themselves (it would be the logical next step if they were really THAT desperate to get ahold of the BoP


There is one reason why the killer couldn't infiltrate the group themselves: there are already a union leader (let's stick with Skuld). They don't want to rock the boat too much so need a replacement for their murdered colleague.
Twilight Lumiair

It's not like Ven could've hepled carry out some secret agenda, because up until now he was kept completely oblivious to the fact that he was even planted to begin with.

Twilight Lumiair

. He's not shown to be particularly smart, proactive, or confident about his abilities or his judgement. In fact, Ventus himself was confused about why he was ever approached about being a Union Leader when he was so "unremarkable" when it came to performing his duties (and the fact that he seemingly didn't have any friends prior to meeting Ephemer and Skuld, makes it hard to think he would've had strong charisma or leadership skills).


I agree picking Ven is unlikely to just be random and I like your logic above but you start off with the assumption that the killer would want a competent replacement who could pass for a chosen leader and not be caught. Now if the killer were aligned with Darkness, would they necessarily want this?

In fact, having a replacement who is both not well-suited to leadership and is filled with self-doubt and then having them exposed could be advantageous. It sows division within the union leaders and increases the self-doubt within Ventus. And that could weaken Ventus's heart (like Buzz Lightyear), giving Darkness a way into his heart.

Eonstar890

February 5, 2020 @ 04:30 amOffline

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Twilight Lumiair


If the culprit seriously didn't want Strelitzia influencing the group.... why? What could she have possibly done to prompt someone to make such an extreme action? She definitely didn't come off as someone who would make THAT big of an influence on the future. The defining aspects of her character was that she's was incredibly shy and timid. Later she's shown to be so anxious about being a Union Leader that she has trouble falling asleep. Did she really seem like someone who'd have a loud voice within this group? I'm not so sure... Also, we never see her do anything suspicious prior to being killed (the only thing she even had time to do after being given her role was look for [Player]), so I'm not sure why someone would view her as "traitorous" of all things.

Still, interesting theories. I appreciate the response ?


Well I guess you could think about the butterfly effect in this case. Strelitzia's absence directly lead Lauriam to go searching for her, and that his been his main objective ever since becoming a Union Leader. If she was around still, his course of actions would have been very different. It's too soon to say yet, but I feel like Strelitizia's death was somehow predetermined to happen by the future the MoM foresaw and he did what he did purposefully to ensure that events would play out as they have.

At the very least, it could be a trick as a way of causing distrust in the new Union Leaders. The old ones were clearly very suspicious of each other, and maybe the forces at work are trying to repeat that mistake in these new ones. A lack of trust and commune can lead to darkness growing.

LoneFox

February 5, 2020 @ 05:19 amOffline

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Do we know which union Ven was in before he became a Dandelion? I know the game doesn't contain that information, but do secondary sources?

Twilight Lumiair

February 5, 2020 @ 05:20 amOffline

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Dast

There is one reason why the killer couldn't infiltrate the group themselves: there are already a union leader (let's stick with Skuld). They don't want to rock the boat too much so need a replacement for their murdered colleague.

Right, but if the killer really knew THAT much about who was supposed to have what, surely they also should've known about Ava's note (something she got from the MoM) detailing who the chosen leaders are. Regardless of whether or not Strelitzia was replaced, they were bound to find out the truth as soon as Blaine decided to read through that book. It's not like Ven being there really delayed that in any way, right? He and Skuld have been neither a hindrance, nor an assistance to unraveling the fate of Strelitzia (if one of them was really responsible they should've taken more steps to prevent the truth from coming to light, instead of messing around building snowmen).

Dast

I agree picking Ven is unlikely to just be random and I like your logic above but you start off with the assumption that the killer would want a competent replacement who could pass for a chosen leader and not be caught. Now if the killer were aligned with Darkness, would they necessarily want this?

In fact, having a replacement who is both not well-suited to leadership and is filled with self-doubt and then having them exposed could be advantageous. It sows division within the union leaders and increases the self-doubt within Ventus. And that could weaken Ventus' heart (like Buzz Lightyear), giving Darkness a way into his heart.

Hah.... You've got an interesting point there. Not the sowing distrust part (since that obviously didn't happen), but the idea that Ventus' self doubt could open the door for darkness to enter his heart is surprisingly plausible. Even though I'm not a fan of the concept, an idea like this would explain why "Darkness" was seemingly inside Ven's heart during ReMind.

Eonstar890

Well I guess you could think about the butterfly effect in this case. Strelitzia's absence directly lead Lauriam to go searching for her, and that his been his main objective ever since becoming a Union Leader. If she was around still, his course of actions would have been very different. It's too soon to say yet, but I feel like Strelitizia's death was somehow predetermined to happen by the future the MoM foresaw and he did what he did purposefully to ensure that events would play out as they have.

Guess it depends on if Lauriam's efforts to find his sister lead to something game changing or not. So far, his own personal search hasn't gotten him anywhere (Ephemer and Blaine have peiced together more than him at this point). I'm not sure how MoM could've known about Strelitzia's demise, since he wasn't there to witness it, and there's no indication that even Luxu was aware about what exactly happened to her (and he was the one holding the gazing eye). But I guess we won't know until we see how things pan out a bit further.

Eonstar890

At the very least, it could be a trick as a way of causing distrust in the new Union Leaders. The old ones were clearly very suspicious of each other, and maybe the forces at work are trying to repeat that mistake in these new ones. A lack of trust and commune can lead to darkness growing.

Honestly, I don't see there being any kind of mistrust or suspicion among this group when Ephemer (their leader) went out of his way to tell Blaine that, since Ven clearly didn't know about the switch, he wants everyone to continue working together and solve the mysteries surrounding them just like they were before. Only now they also need to figure out why Ven's here too, if he wasn't chosen.

In other words, what the writers are trying to tell us is that things will go back to buissness as usual until something else happens to kickstart their plot again. I mean... Perhaps Lauriam could be distrustful of Ven at first, but he's also been known to fully submit to Ephemer's judgement in the past. So it's just as likely he'd take his leader's word for it and point his suspicion elsewhere. And even if he didn't, it's not like Ven (being as passive and oblivious as he's been shown) could ever do anything to arouse further suspicion anyway.


Also, from the meta, it'd be incredibly trite and unfulfilling of them to pull the whole "there's a traitor, but it's not really any of us" storyline again. I'd really rather we not have a repeat of Back Cover. Unless there actually is a traitor within the group this time, I'd say they're better off taking the conflict somewhere else (hopefully something new and refreshing... Not that I care much for Ux anyway, lol).

Sign

February 5, 2020 @ 06:01 amOffline

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LoneFox

Do we know which union Ven was in before he became a Dandelion? I know the game doesn't contain that information, but do secondary sources?


We do not, unfortunately. No confirmed Unions for any of the leaders.

LoneFox

February 5, 2020 @ 08:05 amOffline

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I guess it is better than him being confirmed in "wrong" union for the theory...

When I got into solving this mystery about half a year ago, one of the first things I read about it (on Reddit, IIRC) was a theory about wrong victim. Now it seems like this theory is the correct one.

Here is what I think happened:
Ira was after Gula and the lost page. He was blinded physically by the poor lighting conditions in the building, and mentally by the sin of Wrath, the one of his own name. He mistook Strelitzia for Gula and struck her down. Then he picked up the book and realized it was not the Book of Prophesies, but a union leader's rulebook. A few very sincere f-words later, he thought he must do his best to correct his mistake. He disguised himself as Ava (Note the symmetry, we have seen Ava as fake Ira before), and went looking for a Dandelion. He didn't know many of them, but he knew those who were originally in his union. Ven just happened to be the first one he encountered.

To my understanding this matches everything we have. It doesn't require any unseen information leaks or unknown actors behind the scenes. It also works with my theory that Lauriam is the one who was supposed to be killed. I guess Lauriam is somewhat less similar to Gula than Strelitzia was, he is taller and wouldn't hold the book in his hand, but I think it is still plausible.

Also, let's do a traitor count. Aced, Gula, and Invi started the conflict that escalated into the Keyblade War. Aced also had plans of overthowing the others and becoming a king, while Gula planned summoning Kingdom Hearts (and the destiny chess players mention that it was actually summoned during the war). Ava gave the book to wrong person, and also struck the first blow of the war, causing the bells to ring. Luxu opened the box to read the book, and by doing so exposed the data worlds inside it to the outside world. This lead to the Wreck-It Ralph world connecting, glitches from there getting in, and Brain realizing that they are still in data Daybreak Town instead of the real one. That's five of them. It seems obvious that the final answer is supposed to be six out of six. If Ira is the killer we get that, and I don't think he has done anything else that would count as traitorous.

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kristi-swat

February 5, 2020 @ 10:45 amOffline

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LoneFox

I guess it is better than him being confirmed in "wrong" union for the theory...

When I got into solving this mystery about half a year ago, one of the first things I read about it (on Reddit, IIRC) was a theory about wrong victim. Now it seems like this theory is the correct one.

Here is what I think happened:
Ira was after Gula and the lost page. He was blinded physically by the poor lighting conditions in the building, and mentally by the sin of Wrath, the one of his own name. He mistook Strelitzia for Gula and struck her down. Then he picked up the book and realized it was not the Book of Prophesies, but a union leader's rulebook. A few very sincere f-words later, he thought he must do his best to correct his mistake. He disguised himself as Ava (Note the symmetry, we have seen Ava as fake Ira before), and went looking for a Dandelion. He didn't know many of them, but he knew those who were originally in his union. Ven just happened to be the first one he encountered.

To my understanding this matches everything we have. It doesn't require any unseen information leaks or unknown actors behind the scenes. It also works with my theory that Lauriam is the one who was supposed to be killed. I guess Lauriam is somewhat less similar to Gula than Strelitzia was, he is taller and wouldn't hold the book in his hand, but I think it is still plausible.

Also, let's do a traitor count. Aced, Gula, and Invi started the conflict that escalated into the Keyblade War. Aced also had plans of overthowing the others and becoming a king, while Gula planned summoning Kingdom Hearts (and the destiny chess players mention that it was actually summoned during the war). Ava gave the book to wrong person, and also struck the first blow of the war, causing the bells to ring. Luxu opened the box to read the book, and by doing so exposed the data worlds inside it to the outside world. This lead to the Wreck-It Ralph world connecting, glitches from there getting in, and Brain realizing that they are still in data Daybreak Town instead of the real one. That's five of them. It seems obvious that the final answer is supposed to be six out of six. If Ira is the killer we get that, and I don't think he has done anything else that would count as traitorous.

hmmm how can you be sure about the Luxu part though?

LoneFox

February 5, 2020 @ 11:34 amOffline

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kristi-swat

hmmm how can you be sure about the Luxu part though?

The secret reports tell that he has read the lost page. There are only two instances of it in existence. We haven't seen Luxu anywhere near the copy Gula has, so he must have accessed the original instead. The rest of it is just connecting all the information we have about the book, the box, MoM's goal, and how the worlds work in a way that makes sense.

Sephiroth0812

February 5, 2020 @ 12:19 pmOffline

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Why did Luxu read the Lost Page in the first place when part of his role was exactly to NOT know anything in regards to content of the BoP?
If Luxu did read it, he'd violated the boundaries of his role, wouldn't he?

LoneFox

February 5, 2020 @ 12:33 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812

Why did Luxu read the Lost Page in the first place when part of his role was exactly to NOT know anything in regards to content of the BoP?
If Luxu did read it, he'd violated the boundaries of his role, wouldn't he?

That is exactly what I was trying to say. It's what adds him to the list of traitors.

Eonstar890

February 5, 2020 @ 04:12 pmOffline

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Twilight Lumiair


Guess it depends on if Lauriam's efforts to find his sister lead to something game changing or not. So far, his own personal search hasn't gotten him anywhere (Ephemer and Blaine have peiced together more than him at this point). I'm not sure how MoM could've known about Strelitzia's demise, since he wasn't there to witness it, and there's no indication that even Luxu was aware about what exactly happened to her (and he was the one holding the gazing eye). But I guess we won't know until we see how things pan out a bit further.




I am pretty sure his search is what lead him to finding the Ark at the exact same moment as Maleficent, which will most likely lead to some big altercation. Also if this ark is in the real daybreak town that means Lauriam escaped the data world too. So I would definitely say his course of actions have significantly affected his fate, which we know will end with him in the far future. Without Strelitzia disappearing, none of this may have happened.

While we don’t know exactly how much Luxu has seen so far, we do know he is watching close by as several actions of the new union leaders is detailed in the secret reports. For instance he mentions how their is an imposter in the group, meaning he knows about the current actions of the new five.

Ink Ribbon

February 5, 2020 @ 04:20 pmOffline

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All of this is making me wonder what really was the purpose of killing Strelitzia. I remember she had a sense of purity and innocence but there’s not much else known about her. Is it she possible she’s a princess of heart? Maybe that’s why she got the BoP instead of someone else? Whoever took her out, essentially killed two birds with one stone. Got the book and destroyed a PoH. Sure, the PoH power could’ve moved to someone else. However in the end, we still had children murdering each other and the world ending so new candidates could’ve been very limited. What if Darkness (or whoever) was trying to prevent the possible use of the seven pure lights so it killed Strelitzia as a backup plan? Then again she could just be an unfortunate victim and Im reading too much into it lol. But it just feels there’s more to this whole thing with her.

Since there’s many posts to quote on Luxu, I’ll just note it here separately. Aside from the fact there’s an X in his name and not the other Foretellers, his facial scar and eyepatch do form an X (a possible recusant’s sigil?). It didn’t jump out at me right away but yeah there might be something up there. I do believe Luxu followed MoM’s orders but think he started doing some things on his own too at some point. Besides, you can’t tell me the MoM isn’t going to be like “Luxu, you’re looking a little bit more evil than usual.”

DarknessInZero

February 5, 2020 @ 05:09 pmOffline

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LoneFox

That is exactly what I was trying to say. It's what adds him to the list of traitors.


This is a stretch. The Master only singled out one traitor. All these other instances you mentioned are contrived. Starting the Keyblade War does not make them a traitor...they are doing what was supposed to happen. The war was always inevitable, so why does it make them traitors when the Master planned for them to fight each other?

Ava deviated from his plans by acting on her own. That makes her the likely traitor, because she tried to go against the Master's grand plan -- this implication is the game telling us that she is the most likely suspect.

If there's anyone to be foolproof from ever deviating from the role...it's Luxu. Quite literally the only one who never hesitated in the Master or his plan.

Dast

February 5, 2020 @ 06:47 pmOffline

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DarknessInZero

If there's anyone to be foolproof from ever deviating from the role...it's Luxu. Quite literally the only one who never hesitated in the Master or his plan.

That seems right about Luxu never deviating from his role but, for the sake of argument, perhaps that actually would make him the traitor in a sense.

Not a traitor to the plan ascribed to him, which he didn't fully understand and which he didn't even know was right (if the forthcoming character files can be believed), but a traitor unto his own heart.

'May your heart be your guiding key... you ultimately have to do what your heart feels is right' - MoM

When Aced, Gula, Ava defy their master's teachings they are following their hearts (I don't remember enough about Ira & Invi in Back Cover but you could probably say the same about them).

Luxu doesn't follow his heart and rebel, instead ensuring his Master's plan comes to fruition and in the process, he gives his heart to darkness (this is undeniably true).

Sorry for the long bit of contrarianism.

DarknessInZero

February 5, 2020 @ 07:23 pmOffline

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Dast

That seems right about Luxu never deviating from his role but, for the sake of argument, perhaps that actually would make him the traitor in a sense.

Not a traitor to the plan ascribed to him, which he didn't fully understand and which he didn't even know was right (if the forthcoming character files can be believed), but a traitor unto his own heart.

'May your heart be your guiding key... you ultimately have to do what your heart feels is right' - MoM

When Aced, Gula, Ava defy their master's teachings they are following their hearts (I don't remember enough about Ira & Invi in Back Cover but you could probably say the same about them).

Luxu doesn't follow his heart and rebel, instead ensuring his Master's plan comes to fruition and in the process, he gives his heart to darkness (this is undeniably true).

Sorry for the long bit of contrarianism.


Hm, I can kind of see that happening in a plot twist for future games. Where Luxu becomes the big bad and is revealed as the traitor because he's the one who instigated everything as he was the only one to not question what was going on. I like where some of this is going. But in terms of this current story, for KHUX, making more traitors ain't happening

Dast

February 5, 2020 @ 09:04 pmOffline

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DarknessInZero

Hm, I can kind of see that happening in a plot twist for future games. Where Luxu becomes the big bad and is revealed as the traitor because he's the one who instigated everything as he was the only one to not question what was going on. I like where some of this is going. But in terms of this current story, for KHUX, making more traitors ain't happening

Oh yeah I looked at your last post without thinking about the context. I agree that's not relevant for KHUX at all

Ballad of Caius

February 5, 2020 @ 09:06 pmOffline

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The thought of Luxu being added to the list of possible traitors gave me a mental picture of the MoM being asked who the traitor was and he slowly points at someone, then someone else and so forth, revealing that everyone ended up being a traitor in their own way.

Dast

February 5, 2020 @ 09:47 pmOffline

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I did notice something linking the foreteller traitor stuff to KHUX today.

Another thing Gula did that wasn't allowed was to reveal the contents of the Lost Page to two people, just as the bells rang out. These two people were Player and Skuld. I think she would be the only new union leader to know about the Lost Page.

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kristi-swat

February 5, 2020 @ 11:00 pmOffline

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LoneFox

The secret reports tell that he has read the lost page. There are only two instances of it in existence. We haven't seen Luxu anywhere near the copy Gula has, so he must have accessed the original instead. The rest of it is just connecting all the information we have about the book, the box, MoM's goal, and how the worlds work in a way that makes sense.

I was doing some rereading of Secret Report 11 and you're right, the part of the lost page is indeed weird and furthermore, the lost page doesn't detail the war. The war was already written in the books everyone had :S
Another note is from Luxu's observations which comparing with what is going on in UX something is off.
He says " One of the Five is an imposter, someone the Master did not choose. They represent a virus in the program he so carefully wrote. The virus has begun a strange undertaking: a reckless plot to allow the Five to escape into another worldline." Now from past story we know that Brain seems to be the one wanting to change things. If the imposter, now Ven is the same as this virus we would have seen Ven come up with these plans already by now?! Unless it's to be revealed in the future updates.

Dast

February 6, 2020 @ 06:30 amOffline

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I have expanded my theory to explain the virus. Here's the TL;DR version:

The true virus is Player, because they were not a Dandelion and hence hadn't been 'coded' into the MoM's program. As the Keyblade War was beginning, Skuld invited Player to join the Dandelions but they said no. Skuld took them to to the new worldline anyway. More reason to label Skuld the killer/replacement.

I do have a little evidence for this already and will try to find more.

Twilight Lumiair

February 6, 2020 @ 07:01 amOffline

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Dast

The true virus is Player, because they were not a Dandelion and hence hadn't been 'coded' into the MoM's program. As the Keyblade War was beginning, Skuld invited Player to join the Dandelions but they said no. Skuld took them to to the new worldline anyway. More reason to label Skuld the killer/replacement.

Hmmm.. ok so:
1) Are you suggesting the MoM knew who every single Dandelion would be, and individually coded them into his program? How, when Ava was the one who picked them all (for a long time doing so in secret)? And that... Doesn't sound like a very reasonable or efficient way to go about things, does it? Why would he need to "program" them in such a way in the first place?
2) Just because Player chose not leave with the Dandelions, didn't make them unworthy or unable of becoming one. Even in the middle of the Keyblade War, Ava still tells the player to leave the battle with the Dandelions, so they had the freedom and the approval to go whenever they pleased (provided they didn't die, of course). Also, it was technically Skuld and Ephemer who went to retrieve [Player] from the Keyblade Graveyard, and the latter was the one who did all the talking (and the one who actually took Player's hand) from what I recall.

Dast

February 6, 2020 @ 07:52 amOffline

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Twilight Lumiair

Hmmm.. ok so:
1) Are you suggesting the MoM knew who every single Dandelion would be, and individually coded them into his program? How, when Ava was the one who picked them all (for a long time doing so in secret)? And that... Doesn't sound like a very reasonable or efficient way to go about things, does it? Why would he need to "program" them in such a way in the first place?
2) Just because Player chose not leave with the Dandelions, didn't make them unworthy or unable of becoming one. Even in the middle of the Keyblade War, Ava still tells the player to leave the battle with the Dandelions, so they had the freedom and the approval to go whenever they pleased (provided they didn't die, of course). Also, it was technically Skuld and Ephemer who went to retrieve [Player] from the Keyblade Graveyard, and the latter was the one who did all the talking (and the one who actually took Player's hand) from what I recall.

Well, let's deal with the Ephemer argument first. That's simply explained: Skuld lied and said she had recruited Player at the last minute. In fact, looking at it another way, if Ephemer does all the talking and takes the player's hand... Why did Nomura even write Skuld into that scene? She's redundant, unless to highlight that she selected Player herself.

I would take the same approach to your point about it not mattering that the Player didn't become a Dandelion and the 'coding' thing. If it doesn't actually matter whether or not somebody joins the Dandelions, then what's the point of the whole idea? Why can't Ava, Ephemer, and Skuld just take anyone they like to the next world without getting them to join an organisation.

I don't know if MoM knew everyone who would join, but maybe joining marked you in some mystical way (and this is not a dumb idea in a series where marking someone with an X also has mystical significance). Plus, do you think MoM would plan things like this: 'You should recruit wielders into the Dandelions to go to the next world... But if you bring one or two others that's also fine'? (sorry for being crude)

Kimmy1980

February 12, 2020 @ 10:51 pmOffline

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Thank you AdrianXXII. I keep trying to place a character in the role of the killer of Strelitzia, but it has to be Darkness. I believe Darkness also has the ability to shapeshift, and maybe appeared to Ven in the shape of Ava to induct him into the Dandelions. Darkness needs a vessel to move forward in time, and it will be Ventus.

What I don't get is why have two siblings (Laurium and Strelitzia) be on the list of the Master of Masters? I have such a hard time getting past this. It doesn't make any sense.

The storyline is getting way too confusing lately. First we hear of worldlines, and now an ark? Which is it? Why would Darkness even lead Malificent to the ark machine, when he/she already mentions that it was never fully complete? Now we know why Malificent is hesitant to get inside. Question though, when she finds the machine, is she in digital Daybreak Town or real world Daybreak Town?

The word "ark" is being thrown about in two different ways. First a machine, and then the line from BBS, "And now it is your darkness that shall be the ark that sustains me." If we go off of the second option, Ventus would be the "ark" for Darkness. Will other characters witness this event, and follow suit? Maybe that's the key instead of moving forward in time? What if nobody uses the machine at all?

I know that Ephemer will not make it, possibly struck down by Ventus/Darkness in the keyblade graveyard. Maybe a connection to the Dark Inferno? and Brain needs to go on to rebuild Daybreak Town into Scala ad Caelum and be the lineage of Eraqus. Which leaves Skuld, Ventus, and Laurium?

I still think that Grand Central Station in the Wreck it Ralph world is a bigger key to getting to the outside world.

Sign

February 12, 2020 @ 11:09 pmOffline

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Kimmy1980

The storyline is getting way too confusing lately. First we hear of worldlines, and now an ark? Which is it? Why would Darkness even lead Malificent to the ark machine, when he/she already mentions that it was never fully complete? Now we know why Malificent is hesitant to get inside. Question though, when she finds the machine, is she in digital Daybreak Town or real world Daybreak Town?


The ark is only able to achieve time travel because it's incomplete, suggesting that its original purpose is, well, not that. And Darkness explains why they need Maleficent to return to her own time in this update. They need someone with memories of the Dandelions to be there in the future so that they can be reformed.

The scene is very much unclear. We all assumed that the machine is the ark that allows Maleficent to return to the future, but it's possible it may actually be the gateway back into the real world.

Kimmy1980

The word "ark" is being thrown about in two different ways. First a machine, and then the line from BBS, "And now it is your darkness that shall be the ark that sustains me." If we go off of the second option, Ventus would be the "ark" for Darkness. Will other characters witness this event, and follow suit? Maybe that's the key instead of moving forward in time? What if nobody uses the machine at all?


I don't really see what's conflicting between the machine and the context MX uses it in?

Kimmy1980

I know that Ephemer will not make it, possibly struck down by Ventus/Darkness in the keyblade graveyard. Maybe a connection to the Dark Inferno? and Brain needs to go on to rebuild Daybreak Town into Scala ad Caelum and be the lineage of Eraqus. Which leaves Skuld, Ventus, and Laurium?


According to Luxu, all five of them make the jump to the next worldline.

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Any

February 13, 2020 @ 04:14 amOffline

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Guys, if you check quest 60 and you’ll see a cloak figure standing on the towers. No one saw that?
[ATTACH type="full"]12255[/ATTACH]

Sign

February 13, 2020 @ 04:34 amOffline

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Any

Guys, if you check quest 60 and you’ll see a cloak figure standing on the towers. No one saw that?
[ATTACH=full]12255[/ATTACH]


We actually discussed this years and years ago, and exploring KHX's files for this scene shows that they used Invi as the stand-in for this mysterious figure. Ultimately it amounted to nothing; even the novel just leaves it as an unnamed Foreteller.

Hirokey123

February 13, 2020 @ 03:02 pmOffline

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I think it was meant to be a hint to Invi's role as the observer.

Ink Ribbon

February 14, 2020 @ 03:09 amOffline

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Sign

According to Luxu, all five of them make the jump to the next worldline.


Sorry to randomly point out your post, Sign, but this is actually a good time for maybe someone to clarify this for me lol.

I assume that the union leader that gets No Name will remain behind to rebuild things. However since the report does say the Five are sent forward, wouldn't that mean that he/she took No Name with them too? How would Luxu be able to watch over the keyblade if they're not in the same timeline? Unless...the Five, Elrena and Maleficent happen to reform around the time Luxu passed through time naturally to catch up to them? Or could "the Five" be referring to Ava, Gula and company being shot forward instead of the new union leaders?

Maybe I've missed something along the way. Thanks to anyone that might be able to clear this up.

Dast

February 14, 2020 @ 04:05 amOffline

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Ink Ribbon

Sorry to randomly point out your post, Sign, but this is actually a good time for maybe someone to clarify this for me lol.

I assume that the union leader that gets No Name will remain behind to rebuild things. However since the report does say the Five are sent forward, wouldn't that mean that he/she took No Name with them too? How would Luxu be able to watch over the keyblade if they're not in the same timeline? Unless...the Five, Elrena and Maleficent happen to reform around the time Luxu passed through time naturally to catch up to them? Or could "the Five" be referring to Ava, Gula and company being shot forward instead of the new union leaders?

Maybe I've missed something along the way. Thanks to anyone that might be able to clear this up.

Looking at reports 11 and 12 it is pretty clear that Luxu does give No Name to one of the five new union leaders before they go to another worldline (he talks about the Dandelions hopping world lines and 'the Masters' before that).

Luxu assumedly does somehow cross to the worldline separately (' I will depart this land') as he clearly does meet some of the Five again and I guess to the start of it to come in contact with the Five whenever they appear ('I will continue gazing upon each passing era'), though I don't think we know how it all really works.

Ballad of Caius

February 14, 2020 @ 01:28 pmOffline

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Perhaps at the time Nomura did not have a clear idea, but maybe he meant that the Five get out of Data!Daybreak Town and then some jump a Worldline?

Eonstar890

February 15, 2020 @ 02:17 amOffline

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The term "world line" is still a bit vague as far as what it truly defines.

Given what we know I think that it makes most sense for it to mean from a data world line to the RoL world line. It is still unclear what the device Maleficent has found truly is. Seeing as how Lauriam is also there it most likely exists in the data world, meaning that machine might be a way to escape the data worlds. However Darkness has described the ark to be in the castle which is supposed to be a way into the future. In which case this device may be accomplishing both methods. Regardless, the Five will find a way out of the Data Cage, and at least three characters will jump into the future.

What I am currently thinking is that the five who jump out of this cage and into the future are going to be Lauriam, Elrena, Skuld, Ventus, and Brain. Ephemer stays behind and remains trapped in the Data Cage along with the rest of the uber powerful Dandelions. (I also feel like this Data Cage is what the Black Box contains). This could possibly explain why he appears before Sora during the Keyblade War alongside a whole bunch of Keyblades. As for the other five, I definitely feel like something will go awry with the machine causing it to malfunction and scatter them across space and time. Brain will be the first to emerge, and be the one to establish the new order of Keyblade wielders who will build Scala from the ruins of Daybreak, with the main goal of being to protect the light. I also feel like Brain will be the one to receive No Name which would make sense for the way we know history will unfold. Then later on the other four emerge, scattered across the real worlds, with no memory of their past lives. Skuld lands in Radiant Garden, where she becomes Subject X. Lauriam and Elrena are unknown, but emerge presumably together and stick together until becoming members of the Organization. Ventus emerges in a place where he is quickly found by Master Xehanort, perhaps Scala?

Hopefully Dark Road will expand on the World of Scala.

Face My Fears

February 15, 2020 @ 04:20 amOffline

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Kimmy1980

Thank you AdrianXXII. I keep trying to place a character in the role of the killer of Strelitzia, but it has to be Darkness. I believe Darkness also has the ability to shapeshift, and maybe appeared to Ven in the shape of Ava to induct him into the Dandelions. Darkness needs a vessel to move forward in time, and it will be Ventus.

What I don't get is why have two siblings (Laurium and Strelitzia) be on the list of the Master of Masters? I have such a hard time getting past this. It doesn't make any sense.

The storyline is getting way too confusing lately. First we hear of worldlines, and now an ark? Which is it? Why would Darkness even lead Malificent to the ark machine, when he/she already mentions that it was never fully complete? Now we know why Malificent is hesitant to get inside. Question though, when she finds the machine, is she in digital Daybreak Town or real world Daybreak Town?

The word "ark" is being thrown about in two different ways. First a machine, and then the line from BBS, "And now it is your darkness that shall be the ark that sustains me." If we go off of the second option, Ventus would be the "ark" for Darkness. Will other characters witness this event, and follow suit? Maybe that's the key instead of moving forward in time? What if nobody uses the machine at all?

I know that Ephemer will not make it, possibly struck down by Ventus/Darkness in the keyblade graveyard. Maybe a connection to the Dark Inferno? and Brain needs to go on to rebuild Daybreak Town into Scala ad Caelum and be the lineage of Eraqus. Which leaves Skuld, Ventus, and Laurium?

I still think that Grand Central Station in the Wreck it Ralph world is a bigger key to getting to the outside world.

Maybe Grand Central Station connects to Verum Rex? Which could explain the worldline that they escape to?

DarknessInZero

February 18, 2020 @ 05:26 pmOffline

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Face My Fears

Maybe Grand Central Station connects to Verum Rex? Which could explain the worldline that they escape to?


Ah, I like that a lot since the Grand Central Station is the center of video games which explains why Nomrua went out of his way to introduce [S]Noctis[/S] Yozora as a video game character.

Ballad of Caius

February 18, 2020 @ 05:29 pmOffline

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DarknessInZero

Ah, I like that a lot since the Grand Central Station is the center of video games which explains why Nomrua went out of his way to introduce [S]Noctis[/S] Yozora as a video game character.

Grand Central Station could also be a pathway to TWEWY Shibuya. Maybe some TWEWY characters wound up in Verum Rex Shibuya due to confusion.

DarknessInZero

February 18, 2020 @ 05:31 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius

Grand Central Station could also be a pathway to TWEWY Shibuya. Maybe some TWEWY characters wound up in Verum Rex Shibuya due to confusion.


Yup, can totally see that one happening. Imagine if the entire concept of world lines is just different video game universes. That would be wild even for KH but totally here for it.

Ballad of Caius

February 18, 2020 @ 10:47 pmOffline

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DarknessInZero

Yup, can totally see that one happening. Imagine if the entire concept of world lines is just different video game universes. That would be wild even for KH but totally here for it.

Though I think with how Worldlines are looking to work, they could just be totally random and you have no control over them.

Unless Grand Central Station is an attempt at trying to centralize Worldline hopping.

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