Who should be Sora's master? Ventus or Aqua?

[Box_ghost]

Smart dude.That's what I think, can you explain politely like HeartSeams did? And because Terra has more favour on Riku over Sora so you called it stupid?

The idea that Terra would intently abandon Riku for Sora to Master him is relatively stupid.
Not as stupid as Dis-Soul mind you, which ranks about a 45 on a scale to 10, but still kinda. More like a 1.3

I'm not directed my opinion to you.
I will aprreciate if you can point out somebody's mistake in a polite manner.

I was wasn't being rude. You just took it that way.

No. I mean in BBS, he is technically 19.
Either that or in his flashbacks he's actually ten, yet has the body of a 14-15 year old.

That's a laziness thing like someone previously pointed out. And since that scene happened before he connected his heart to Sora, one would believe that it had nothing to do with Ven's actual age.

Ventus= Sora

Aqua= Kairi

Terra= Riku


So Ventus

Please tell me that was sarcasm.
Aqua didn't CHOOSE Kairi, it was unintentional.
Ventus didn't choose Sora. He died before he even became a master. So he couldn't choose.
Then on top of that, Aqua was GOING to CHOOSE Sora, but decided that it would be against her moral code.

The name similarities end there. Similarities.

 

[HeartSeams]

And since that scene happened before he connected his heart to Sora, one would believe that it had nothing to do with Ven's actual age.

Why wouldn't it have something to do with his age if it takes place four years in the past?

 

[Box_ghost]

Why wouldn't it have something to do with his age if it takes place four years in the past?

I meant the character model, not the case.
The character model should have been different for that scene, but because the team decided it wasn't necessary, they didn't change it.
Again, it has nothing really to do with his age, but omission on Square's part.

 

[Stars]

The idea that Terra would intently abandon Riku for Sora to Master him is relatively stupid.
Not as stupid as Dis-Soul mind you, which ranks about a 45 on a scale to 10, but still kinda. More like a 1.3

Must you say stupid? I say Terra can be Sora master because he has strength and never thought of the fact he has favour on Riku more than Sora.

Please tell me that was sarcasm.
Aqua didn't CHOOSE Kairi, it was unintentional.
Ventus didn't choose Sora. He died before he even became a master. So he couldn't choose.
Then on top of that, Aqua was GOING to CHOOSE Sora, but decided that it would be against her moral code.

This is 'smart'. Ventus didn't die

 

[Box_ghost]

Must you say stupid? I say Terra can be Sora master become he has strength and never thought of the fact he has favour on Riku more than Sora.

Okay, I won't say stupid.
Terra chose Riku with no regard for Sora.
Were he to see Sora now, he probably wouldn't train Sora considering Sora doesn't need a master.
That and Sora's taking the MoM before Terra comes back.

This is 'smart'. Ventus didn't die

Excuse me, hold on one second. [video=youtube;nONnkOmPxHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONnkOmPxHY[/video]

Now where was I? Oh yeah:
uhDUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH

That was a metaphor. Saying "he died" is easier than saying "his heart went inside someone else's heart"

I thought that since, you know, Ven didn't actually die and is inside of Sora, is common knowledge, people would be intelligent enough to figure I mean "his heart is in someone else's". That's my mistake for assuming you guys were 'smart'

That and the fact that Nomura has estranged the concept of death in the KH Universe.

Wow

 

[Sephiroth0812]

That and the fact that Nomura has estranged the concept of death in the KH Universe.

He actually didn't, as "true" death still exists...when the soul leaves the body it has no longer energy and the result is death. Actually spilled out quite clear in the Ansem Reports.

 

[Box_ghost]

He actually didn't, as "true" death still exists...when the soul leaves the body it has no longer energy and the result is death. Actually spilled out quite clear in the Ansem Reports.

And we've seen time and time again that Ansem the DiZ can be and has been wrong on multiple occasion.

 

[Stars]

Excuse me, hold on one second. [video=youtube;nONnkOmPxHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONnkOmPxHY[/video]

Now where was I? Oh yeah:
uhDUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH

That was a metaphor. Saying "he died" is easier than saying "his heart went inside someone else's heart"

I thought that since, you know, Ven didn't actually die and is inside of Sora, is common knowledge, people would be intelligent enough to figure I mean "his heart is in someone else's". That's my mistake for assuming you guys were 'smart'

That and the fact that Nomura has estranged the concept of death in the KH Universe.

Wow

Ventus is in Sora is common knowledge, but he still can be save.
Dead is when the soul leave the body. Wow? That's pretty different?

 

[Box_ghost]

Ventus is in Sora is common knowledge, but he still can be save.
Dead is when the soul leave the body. Wow? That's pretty different?

Again, I was assuming you all knew what I meant considering:

Ansem the Wise said to Aqua, “everything is born from sleep”, but what does this mean?
Nomura: Those calling “Sora” in that scene are all people who have already left this world. But there is no concept of death in the world of KH, and so the image is of sleeping in Sora’s heart for example. If they could be woken up, they should be able to be brought back into this world, and so that’s what “born from sleep” means. Ansem the Wise was speaking of this possibility. Aqua isn’t in the world of light either, so perhaps she too will come born from sleep.

http://kh-recharged.com/kingdom-hearts-birth-by-sleep-ultimania-nomura-interview/

Again, my mistake for assuming you'd naturally catch on to my meaning without having to go into some deep philosophical debate with me over death, which as I so eloquently pointed out, doesn't exist in KH.

 

[Stars]

Wow. You direct this interview to me saying that there is no concept of death in KH, but in fact you are the one said the word " died" ?

Those calling “Sora” in that scene are all people who have already left this world. But there is no concept of death in the world of KH, and so the image is of sleeping in Sora’s heart for example

If you assume me to know that death means someone sleeping in Sora's heart or sleeping in somebody based on this interview that talking about the image calling Sora in the Blank Point, then how about Terra? And seem like this interview is not related? It explain the meaning of " everything is born from sleep"?

 

[rac7d]

i wish the concept of being gonewas proven with at least on character in this game, rikureplica dont count cuz in the manga he came back and the manga has prooven to be somewhat canon

 

[Lavender13]

how was it proven to be canon?

 

[HeartSeams]

First of all, there -is- death in Kingdom Hearts. Nomura was speaking to an Eastern Audience when he said there was no concept of death because their concept is different than ours. What Nomura explains after is pretty much the general concept of death to Western Audiences.

i wish the concept of being gonewas proven with at least on character in this game, rikureplica dont count cuz in the manga he came back and the manga has prooven to be somewhat canon

The Manga isn't canon at all. Repliku counts.

 

[Box_ghost]

Wow. You direct this interview to me saying that there is no concept of death in KH, but in fact you are the one said the word " died" ?

Yeah, but again, I assumed you weren't ass retarded and knew what I meant.
Now you're going into some deep, philosophical debate over the meaning of death when I blatantly spelled out what I meant.

If you assume me to know that death means someone sleeping in Sora's heart or sleeping

The word death doesn't have the same meaning in the KH Universe as it ours. We say death, they say sleep, so when I say dead within the context of the KH Universe, I mean sleep. Again, so much easier to say that "Ven's heart is sleeping"

I don't know how much simpler I can make this for you. You were the one who wanted me to stop using the word 'stupid'

It looks like I might have stopped a bit too early if you can't grasp this basic concept.

First of all, there -is- death in Kingdom Hearts. Nomura was speaking to an Eastern Audience when he said there was no concept of death because their concept is different than ours. What Nomura explains after is pretty much the general concept of death to Western Audiences.

Death in KH isn't the same as in our world. So their concept of death, in regards to our own, is not the same. "Death" isn't permanent in their world as it is in ours.

Insofar, the only characters who truly 'died' [in which I mean relatively similar to our world's equivalent] is Repliku.

But again, he can be brought back, so it isn't the same.

True there is Olympus Coliseum, but that only applies to that world until proven otherwise. And even then, the death there isn't permanent. So you can' suck that fat log because you're out of options to try to pin me down with.

 

[HeartSeams]

We say death, they say sleep,

Well, not exactly. That's how it works generally though, I suppose, but there have been some references in KH where the word "sleep" was used, but, I doubt it was meant to be taken as the KH equivalent of death. Either that or Riku has already "died' and came back from "death" all on his own.

 

[Box_ghost]

see previous comment above

 

[HeartSeams]

Death in KH isn't the same as in our world. So their concept of death, in regards to our own, is not the same. "Death" isn't permanent in their world as it is in ours.

Insofar, the only characters who truly 'died' [in which I mean relatively similar to our world's equivalent] is Repliku.

But again, he can be brought back, so it isn't the same.

True there is Olympus Coliseum, but that only applies to that world until proven otherwise. And even then, the death there isn't permanent. So you can' suck that fat log because you're out of options to try to pin me down with.

The idea of "death" in KH is that of the afterlife or heaven. When someone "dies" their "heart" goes on to this kind of place. When Nomura said there is no concept of death, he meant it in an Eastern way where it is believed that when you die your "soul/heart" is reincarnated into something else. The only difference is that in KH, some (not all) people can be brought back from this afterlife and "awaken" again.

and again, the idea that you can replace "sleep" with "death" in any given circumstance is a little iffy. There is an entire scene in CoM where Riku and DiZ discuss sleeping and I highly doubt Riku had "died" by KH standards then.

Plus, none of the characaters that Sora will be "saving" died even in KH terms. As to die in KH, someone has to separate their soul from their body.

 

[rac7d]

wait.......VENTUS IS NOT A MASTER therefore ruling him out completly, and if he is ever release teching will not be his priority.
so that ends this

 

[Box_ghost]

The idea of "death" in KH is that of the afterlife or heaven.

said where?

When someone "dies" their "heart" goes on to this kind of place.

prove it.

When Nomura said there is no concept of death, he meant it in an Eastern way where it is believed that when you die your "soul/heart" is reincarnated into something else. The only difference is that in KH, some (not all) people can be brought back from this afterlife and "awaken" again.

Wow, I didn't know you were Nomura and had direct insight to his mind.

Plus, none of the characaters that Sora will be "saving" died even in KH terms. As to die in KH, someone has to separate their soul from their body.

If there's anything that you have learned over the past 4 years is that Ansem can be and HAS BEEN wrong.

But this is getting out of hand.

My point wasn't to discuss the ecumenical politics of death in KH. That's for another thread.

I was saying that Ven died as a short way of saying that Ven's heart is sleeping inside of Sora.
If you can't understand this, then maybe having your opinon called stupid is the least of your worries.

Now, lets bring it back:

Ven is not a master. He may become one in the future, but for now, he is FAR too unqualified to be Sora's master. And when Sora gives Ven his heart back, it'll STILL be:

Sora>Ven.

The hard truth is that the next NEW game to release is going to have Sora taking his MoM. He is more than qualified. It'll happen before Aqua is back or during. Fact of the matter is unless Square decides to be douchebags and make him fail on purpose, by the time Aqua returns, Sora WILL be a master. And you guys can quote this to remind me on that day if I'm wrong.

And if I'm wrong, I'll go up to someone and punch then in the face.

Hey Heartseams, what's your address? This "is" for something unrelated to the face punching.

 

[HeartSeams]

said where?

It's pretty obvious, given how he then goes on to explain it. Use yo' mindgrapes!

prove it.

Repliku's final conversation alone addresses it.

Wow, I didn't know you were Nomura and had direct insight to his mind.

Him speaking about death to an Eastern audience isn't insight into his mind, it's insight into his comments and the context in which they were given.

If there's anything that you have learned over the past 4 years is that Ansem can be and HAS BEEN wrong.

Well, I've seen nothing to say that he is wrong in this regard.
What other ways has he been wrong?

I was saying that Ven died as a short way of saying that Ven's heart is sleeping inside of Sora.

That was probably mistake one.