Where is the line between rape and consensual? (Not exactly PG rated)

[Coffee Lover]

1. A guy and a girl are . . . you know. The guy gets in and the girl suddenly says "NOOOOOOO!" and he says "YEAH!" and continues. Is that rape?

2. A young woman, 16, marries an older man, 28. She tells him "I don't want it", and he replies "I gotta get it.". Later when they're sleeping on their honeymoon night, he rolls over on top of her while she's saying "No" and making it clear she doesn't want it. He does it anyway. Is that rape?

What inspired me to make this thread was this conversation I was having with a guy.

On 1., he says it's not rape because once the guy gets in, that's it.

On 2., which happened on a movie we watching, he said it's not rape because the woman was a virgin and she was saying no because she hadn't been broke in.

I believe what a nurse told me:
1. Woman or guy says no
2. Means no
3. Makes it clear they mean no

If they continue after those three, it is without a doubt rape.

What are your thoughts?

 

[MomentoMori]

Both of those scenarios are legally defined as rape.

If one partner does not consent, or is not of age or incapacitated and unable to say no (such as mentally incapacitated, passed out, or drunk), then any sexual activity that goes on can be classified as rape.

For example, if a girl is wasted at a party, and a guy who is completely sober takes advantage of her, that is rape (it's debatable whether it's considered rape when both parties are intoxicated and have sex). If a girl is passed out at a party as a result of getting wasted and a guy takes advantage of her, that's considered rape.

Basically if both parties don't say yes, then it's rape. If one party says no, that means NO. If one party can't legally give consent as defined above, then that also means no in the eyes of the law.

 

[AxelYoYo]

Both are rape.

If you say no sex and the other keeps on going, well... I would guess that's rape. Having sex while the other disagrees is rape.

 

[Gram]

my thoughts, its rape.

 

[Epif]

It is rape, because someone said they didn't want it. Even if the "guy is in", then the other person decides that he or she does not want it, then it is rape. And I think it's messed up that your friend equates women to being objects. Note he said that virgin girls are not "broken in." Horses are broken in; people are not.

 

[MasterAqua]

Both are rape.
If one of the partners says no, it's no, simple and clean.

 

[krexia]

Both are absolutely rape. If someone says no, at any point whatsoever, continuing with sex is rape.

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

What inspired me to make this thread was this conversation I was having with a guy.

On 1., he says it's not rape because once the guy gets in, that's it.

On 2., which happened on a movie we watching, he said it's not rape because the woman was a virgin and she was saying no because she hadn't been broke in.

The guy that you had this conversation with is a fucking creep.

 

[Nyangoro]

The moment that either party says "no" and actually means it, the other should stop. If they do not, it's rape.

Simple as that.

 

[LongLiveLife]

The moment that either party says "no" and actually means it, the other should stop. If they do not, it's rape.

I agree with you on this, but it only forms part of my definition for rape. If you are sedated, you will not be able to say "no" to sex.

Thus my definition of rape is non-consensual sex, whether you verbalize it or not. Legally, though, I believe you will need some form of evidence that the sex was non-consensual for the court to consider it rape, lest everyone sue each other for rape when the relationship sours.

 

[MomentoMori]

I agree with you on this, but it only forms part of my definition for rape. If you are sedated, you will not be able to say "no" to sex.

Thus my definition of rape is non-consensual sex, whether you verbalize it or not. Legally, though, I believe you will need some form of evidence that the sex was non-consensual for the court to consider it rape, lest everyone sue each other for rape when the relationship sours.

Unless one of the parties (or both, I would think) was a minor, in which case it's automatically statutory rape, whether they gave verbal consent or not, you do need some kind of evidence that it was non-consensual. Usually a rape kit or a police report or something along those lines.

 

[MosesMohs]

Sex without consent is rape. No gray lines. If you have sex with someone (boy or girl) and they don't want it, then it is rape.

 

[krexia]

Unless one of the parties (or both, I would think) was a minor, in which case it's automatically statutory rape, whether they gave verbal consent or not, you do need some kind of evidence that it was non-consensual.

Having sex with a person who is too intoxicated to give informed consent is also automatically statuatory rape, no matter what they say at the time. Not all rape is violent or physically forced. LongLiveLife is right in saying that a person doesn't have to say "no" for sex to be non-consensual.

 

[Square Ninja]

Having sex with a person who is too intoxicated to give informed consent is also automatically statuatory rape, no matter what they say at the time. Not all rape is violent or physically forced. LongLiveLife is right in saying that a person doesn't have to say "no" for sex to be non-consensual.

because you can't say no through a gag

 

[LongLiveLife]

Sex without consent is rape. No gray lines. If you have sex with someone (boy or girl) and they don't want it, then it is rape.

With the exclusion of minors, I believe you may have a hard time convincing the court that sex was non-consensual, unless you had evidence you were intoxicated at the time or something along those lines.

I too would feel that it would be rape, but how would you prove it?

 

[Lord of Chaos]

There used to be a loophole on certain areas of the rules... It's rather non-existent nowadays, because there was one case here where a guy exploited it. Every sensible Judge and/or Prosecution will find a way to bury you regardless if you try it again. We had to learn about it in Law School.

http://www.accardv.uams.edu/Sexual%20assault%20laws-revised.pdf

Those are the rules for my area. It differs from place to place.

But generally, if it falls under one of those, then I consider it rape, loophole or not.

Also, LLL, it's not that hard these days to convince a court that it was rape. Medical evidence (tissue tearing, etc.) and the witness statement of a victim are usually both excellent sources. See, in courts nowadays, flinging the rape card is pretty easy to do because no one wants a rapist on the streets, whether they really are or not.

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

Also, LLL, it's not that hard these days to convince a court that it was rape. Medical evidence (tissue tearing, etc.) and the witness statement of a victim are usually both excellent sources. See, in courts nowadays, flinging the rape card is pretty easy to do because no one wants a rapist on the streets, whether they really are or not.

This is absolutely true. Rape is one of those crimes where, once charged, you may as well be guilty until proven innocent, at least in the eyes of the court. If forensic evidence can verify that a man and a woman have indeed had sex and she wants to claim that it was not consensual, it's usually very difficult to mount a defense against that.

 

[MosesMohs]

The guy that you had this conversation with is a fcuking creep.

...Word.


Real talk.

 

[Oberon]

The line is very clear. As soon as the girl says "no" and guy continues it can be construed as rape arguably, and therefore in the girls favor as such.

If she consents beforehand, and then when he puts it in she suddenly doesn't want to it can be rape. If she says no all around, it's rape. If she says yes beforehand and makes no signal of not wanting it, it isn't rape. but then she can just "say" he raped her and then it's nigh impossible to argue against, as sam mentioned.

something like rape should be pretty obvious i'd think.

 

[Esso]

I say they're both rapes, like previously said if the partner says no but the other doesn't stop, it's a rape. But looking at situation #1 makes me think that the female partner shouldn't have been... you know with him depending on what exactly they were doing that could've led to that, but if the male partner was dragging or forcing her into it then that's different.