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Empress Mitsuru

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I couldn't really see Demyx as a vessel but I really want to see his somebody in kh3.
 

dlppictures

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eh. nomura's "favourite member" changes like every interview lol.

I have seen this be brought up several times, but I'm not quite sure I understand it.
I have understood Nomura's "favourite member" quotes as having been for different reasons, every interview.

Axel was a favourite amongst the creative team in CoM. Does that also count as Nomura's?
Nomura stated Luxord was his favourite in KHII, and Xigbar was his favourite to play as in 358/2 days because the he liked the long-range playing style.

If I have misunderstood the quotes do enlighten me, but so far I have not heard very convincing arguments for the "Nomura changes his opinion every game/interview" side of things.
 

Wonderful

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originally he said Axel was his favourite (as well as the staff's), then it was Luxord, then it was Roxas, then it was Xigbar (for gameplay), Roxas again, Axel again, then it was "Xehanort and all his incarnations" (Xemnas).

it's not like it's a huge deal or anything lol.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Nomura simply has several favorites, it's not like that it is really that much of a deal since most of these characters were created by him after all.
 

silentmusic16

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Given the chess piece reveal, Luxord is almost completely confirmed already - which is great 'cause he was a lot of fun and I'd like to see more of him. Marluxia is also probably in, if only because he was fairly powerful (and because they're being "overwritten", it's not like his betrayal matters). Plus, we have Marluxia themed Nobodies which could be a pretty big hint.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Given the chess piece reveal, Luxord is almost completely confirmed already - which is great 'cause he was a lot of fun and I'd like to see more of him. Marluxia is also probably in, if only because he was fairly powerful (and because they're being "overwritten", it's not like his betrayal matters). Plus, we have Marluxia themed Nobodies which could be a pretty big hint.

Seemed to matter when Xemnas listed off weakness of trust.
 

BlackOsprey

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Seemed to matter when Xemnas listed off weakness of trust.
Weakness of trust would've ultimately derailed the Org's greater goals, so those particular members died for their treachery. I think that was the issue there. Can't really use someone as a vessel if they're dead, y'know?

Seems like Xehanort's using a different method than what he'd planned out for the old Org. Sure, it's a longer process than just instantly 'norting all thirteen of em at once using a fake Kingdom Hearts, but on the other hand, it seems like this method somewhat deprives them of their free will until they're fully hijacked.

Well, that, and I'm betting that not all of them were in heart-healthy shape when they got dragged into this. More problematic personalities could just be broken and buried under a layer of darkness, like what almost happened with Sora. And you'd think that a strongly oppositional personality like Sora would be much more difficult to 'nort than the treacherous but still thoroughly evil type like Marluxia, wouldn't you?
 

silentmusic16

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Seemed to matter when Xemnas listed off weakness of trust.
Conversely, as BlackOsprey pointed out, you'd think that "actively against your all of your goals" would be worse than "betraying you, but really obviously".

In both cases the original personality is seemingly going to get wiped away regardless once Xehanort gets his way in using them as a vessel (or part of it - I can only assume that the other vessels are going to act like themselves, but be entirely dedicated to Xehanort's cause. More like brainwashing than overwriting, but I digress). Marluxia, then, is just as possible of a vessel as Sora was.
 

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if you take xemnas' line as just being an explanation for why most of the vessels died off the first time and not as rules as who would be chosen a second time, then anyone is pretty much up for grabs. after all, saix was also a traitor, a known traitor, but he's still in the new organization, so "weakness of trust" can't be all that definitive.

really though, we all know who the true thirteenth member of the organization is going to be:

220px-Cheshire_Cat_KHREC.png

he just knows too much for it to be coincidence. plus he's got xehhy-eyes.
 

edtheiii

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So, if I'm putting my two cents in. The way I see it, it's like this:

Confirmed
1.
Master Xehanort
2. Xemnas
3. Ansem, Seeker of Darkness
4. Young Xehanort
5. Isa/Saix
6. Braig/Xigbar

All but Confirmed
7. Vanitas (gear chess piece)
8. Luxord (dice chess piece)

Confusing Territory
9.
Terranort/Terra

From here on, I'm going to name possible candidates that could fill the remaining 4.

Remaining Org XIII Members (who didn't wake up with Lea)

1. Marluxia (has some merit, since they've showed off the new nobodies)
2. Larxene (Seems like she would tag along with Marluxia, darkness or no)
3. Demyx

More Options
4. A foreteller
5. Eraqus (or some incarnation of him)
6. Riku Replica
7. Xion? (as their backup instead of Sora - using time travel)

I find it very unlikely that a Disney or FF villain becomes a seeker of darkness/true org member/Xeha-disco-clone-gang, since Nomura tends to separate the three(+) universes somewhat.

Anyway, of those 7... I'd probably guess Marluxia, Larxene, Eraqus, and Xion - although I have reserves about all of them.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Xion doesn't make any sense, she'd have to have become a vessel before she joined with Sora, since you can't alter things in time travel.
 

appleboy82791

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Ok. I'm a little confused about all of this a bit. Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. The purpose of the Organization is to fill all the members with Xehanort's heart so that they can all act as the 13 darknesses needed to form the X-blade right? And we know from the rules of time travel in KH that you leave your body behind when you time travel right? So only your heart can time travel. And the various forms of Xehanort in KH3D have clearly said that their looking for "empty husks" to fill with Xehanort's heart. So why are we all theorizing all sorts of people being in the new Organization? Isn't the new Organization a bunch of Xehanorts (in whatever form) that are inside other people's bodies? What I mean is, don't the bodies that make up the new Organization have to be of people that currently exist because bodies cannot time travel? That being said, during the events of KH3D whose body is Ansem in? Whose body is Xemnas in? Whose body is Young Xehanort in? And are we assuming that Ansem, Xemnas, and Young Xehanort took over those bodies so completely that they look like Ansem, Xemnas, and Young Xehanort? I can't make any of this make sense to me.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Ok. I'm a little confused about all of this a bit. Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. The purpose of the Organization is to fill all the members with Xehanort's heart so that they can all act as the 13 darknesses needed to form the X-blade right? And we know from the rules of time travel in KH that you leave your body behind when you time travel right? So only your heart can time travel. And the various forms of Xehanort in KH3D have clearly said that their looking for "empty husks" to fill with Xehanort's heart. So why are we all theorizing all sorts of people being in the new Organization? Isn't the new Organization a bunch of Xehanorts (in whatever form) that are inside other people's bodies? What I mean is, don't the bodies that make up the new Organization have to be of people that currently exist because bodies cannot time travel? That being said, during the events of KH3D whose body is Ansem in? Whose body is Xemnas in? Whose body is Young Xehanort in? And are we assuming that Ansem, Xemnas, and Young Xehanort took over those bodies so completely that they look like Ansem, Xemnas, and Young Xehanort? I can't make any of this make sense to me.

you gain the ability to transcend time once your heart leaves the body and you never lose it, so none of the time traveling characters are existences of only a heart aside from brownrobed Xehanort
 

Wonderful

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honestly, any hero-ish vessel being gained through time travel is unlikely. it would just contradict the games. it works for the villains because we don't spend the whole game with them, so it's conceivable that them meeting young xehanort happens off-screen or whatever. but anyone else is pretty eh. there is a reason their attempts to get sora/riku happen in the present after all and after that was foiled i think we're meant to believe mx wont be going after the heroes.

like i think we are meant to take kh3d as xehanort's attempt to get hero-ish characters on his side and it had to happen in the present and that's it. that's the only attempt he will make.
 
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appleboy82791

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you gain the ability to transcend time once your heart leaves the body and you never lose it, so none of the time traveling characters are existences of only a heart aside from brownrobed Xehanort

Could you point me towards a scene where they explain this?
 

edtheiii

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Xion doesn't make any sense, she'd have to have become a vessel before she joined with Sora, since you can't alter things in time travel.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. When I said using time travel - I meant YX would have to collect the Xion from before she merged with Roxas/Sora; probably from when she was first created, so that she wouldn't really have the will to resist. Although, I'm not too confident on my KH time travel logic, I believe this implies that Xion must have had a part of Xehanort inside her since the beginning... which could make sense - since Sora has been confused for Xehanort at least once (i.e. Lingering Will).

However...

like i think we are meant to take kh3d as xehanort's attempt to get hero-ish characters on his side and it had to happen in the present and that's it. that's the only attempt he will make.

Wonderful is probably right in that Xehanort has had his fill with "good guy" characters, and the process of going back in time to grab a "good guy" is too convoluted for it to go well story-wise.


But yeah... if there is something I'm not understanding about time travel, I would love to have it explained in more detail. I've done some light scouring, watched the gametrailers youtube video, etc. but still haven't quite grasped how come Xemnas and ASoD can go into their respective futures - when the concept of 'future' isn't supposed to exist. My only (non-confirmed) explanation is that they are indeed not going into their future, rather YX is just pulling a part of himself into MX's present. Still a lot of holes though, like why can YX go to the future?

...But that's probably for another forum topic. (and one there's probably 20 of already)
 

Empress Mitsuru

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I find it very unlikely that a Disney or FF villain becomes a seeker of darkness/true org member/Xeha-disco-clone-gang, since Nomura tends to separate the three(+) universes somewhat.

I don't see why there couldn't be any Disney or FF villains.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. When I said using time travel - I meant YX would have to collect the Xion from before she merged with Roxas/Sora; probably from when she was first created, so that she wouldn't really have the will to resist. Although, I'm not too confident on my KH time travel logic, I believe this implies that Xion must have had a part of Xehanort inside her since the beginning... which could make sense - since Sora has been confused for Xehanort at least once (i.e. Lingering Will).
No I know what you meant. But, a person who time travels must return to their original time and they cannot alter the path of fate. It can be implied then that they return the way they came. Making her a vessel is definitely altering her path of fate.


also, the rules of time travel are explained by Xehanort at the beach I think but Nomura elaborates. If they were all just hearts... I mean that doesn't make sense.
 

Wonderful

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i believe xehanort explains how time travel to the future works to sora after the xemnas battle, and then he explains how time travel to the past works to riku before their battle. those are the two scenes most devoted to explaining how it works, but really, there is elements of it explained/addressed throughout both sides of TWTNW
 
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