• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

[SPOILER ALERT!] What do you think will/want to be Retconned in DDD?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Oracle Spockanort

written in the stars
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
35,653
Awards
96
Age
33
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
That's classic a KH retcon right there lol it manages to work with the narrative rather than go against it.

It is not a retcon if it manages to not nullify past plot points or contradict things stated earlier in the series.Sure, Roxas said he left the Org because he wanted to find Sora in KH2, but in Days he left because of Xion. Aren't Xion and Sora the same person, anyways? 8D

Oh Days, why must you exist...
 

Mirby

Too many games too little time
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
4,205
Awards
16
Age
34
Location
Mesa, AZ
Website
twitch.tv
It is not a retcon if it manages to not nullify past plot points or contradict things stated earlier in the series.Sure, Roxas said he left the Org because he wanted to find Sora in KH2, but in Days he left because of Xion. Aren't Xion and Sora the same person, anyways? 8D

Oh Days, why must you exist...
Well, to be fair, by the time KH2 came around chronologically, he didn't remember who Xion was. Not to mention it's easily possible he left the Organization to find Sora AND because of Xion. I don't see why it can't be both. It's not like someone can only have ONE reason to do things.
 

loke13

Waiting on FF XV and KH3 :D
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
6,597
Location
Los Angeles
It is not a retcon if it manages to not nullify past plot points or contradict things stated earlier in the series.Sure, Roxas said he left the Org because he wanted to find Sora in KH2, but in Days he left because of Xion. Aren't Xion and Sora the same person, anyways? 8D

Oh Days, why must you exist...
But isn't that what Xion did? Org. XIII got a 14th member. Than again Xion wasn't a true member since she wasn't even a Nobody.
 

Mirby

Too many games too little time
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
4,205
Awards
16
Age
34
Location
Mesa, AZ
Website
twitch.tv
Well, if you look at the origins of Xion's name (no. i + X, i referencing "imaginary number" as used in algebra) and remember that she is a Replica like Repliku... you see that she never was truly a member. She was only a tool.

I have no idea what relevance this has anymore, but I'm posting it anyways. XD
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,531
Awards
37
Location
Germany
Well, if you look at the origins of Xion's name (no. i + X, i referencing "imaginary number" as used in algebra) and remember that she is a Replica like Repliku... you see that she never was truly a member. She was only a tool.

I have no idea what relevance this has anymore, but I'm posting it anyways. XD

The main reason was however still the fact that she was not a nobody but an artificial created puppet. Furthermore Xemnas always intended to have only one keyblade wielder around to do his bidding.
Since Roxas and Xion were constantly both absorbing power from each other they were never as effective as one of them would be with all the power.
Only when they wer in perfect balance the gambit worked, but that balance couldn't be kept for long.
Xemnas also wanted an obedient, controllable puppet which first Roxas (when he began to develop an own sense of self) and later also Xion (when she started to develop an own will as well) undermined.
The 13th spot would have been filled out with whatever puppet Xemnas could gain, as in the end, Roxas was only a tool as well to the Org.
 

Horizon's Knight

Currently [REDACTED]
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
1,025
Age
30
Location
SCP Foundation
Just to point out, I see that some are confusing retcon and plot holes. Retcon is altering fact, but by a means that doesn't necessarily make what was started before false. Ansem SOD not being AtW, but rather XH, is Retcon. It just states that fact that Ansem SOD was an impostor. So, nothing in KH1 is proved false, just makes you see it from a different perspective.

A plot hole is an actual contradiction that makes something stated previous false. Example being the reasons for Roxas leaving the Organization. That was completely changed from how it was told in KH2 in Days.

Thank both you and Grass for telling everyone the definition of retcon. Perhaps I should define this in my first post so poeple will know what this thread is about.
 

kupo1121

We are Moogle! Hear us...kupo?
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
8,349
Awards
17
Location
Wherever I am right now
Some people just never learn to give up ;~;.

I'm expecting nothing to be retconned. Like, for real real.

^ This.

I am almost sure that nothing major is going to be retconned...and if anything is, it will be explained in an alternate way that makes it seems as if it wasn't retconned or something. Like why Roxas left the org. being re-explained since he didn't remember Xion.
 

Zen

Silver Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
4,745
Awards
2
Just to point out, I see that some are confusing retcon and plot holes. Retcon is altering fact, but by a means that doesn't necessarily make what was started before false. Ansem SOD not being AtW, but rather XH, is Retcon. It just states that fact that Ansem SOD was an impostor. So, nothing in KH1 is proved false, just makes you see it from a different perspective.

A plot hole is an actual contradiction that makes something stated previous false. Example being the reasons for Roxas leaving the Organization. That was completely changed from how it was told in KH2 in Days.

Except that you're completely mistaken.

Ansem SoD not being AtW is not a retcon at all. I don't need to go into further detail for that one because you explained it well. Your error lies in what you think a retcon is.

A retcon is changing something that has already been entrenched in an antecedent story; altering what was previously established in a prior installment. This is why retcons are considered forms of poor storytelling for the most part; no one would complain about them if that wasn't the case.

Take for example what you said about Roxas' reasons for leaving Organization XIII. That is a retcon, not a plot hole.

A plot hole on the other hand can be a contradiction as well, but it's in a different context. Part of the difference is that there are different forms of plot holes -- a contradiction of an event or statement is only one of them. Whereas there is only specific type of retcon.

Contradictions are only plot holes when it happens in the same installment, not within two different ones. This is why you never hear of retcons being made on the first game of a series, or on stand alone stories of any medium; only plot holes, if there is any to begin with.
 
Last edited:

Luap

sans 911
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
5,233
Awards
6
Age
29
Website
www.facebook.com
Except that you're completely mistaken.

Ansem SoD not being AtW is not a retcon at all. I don't need to go into further detail for that one because you explained it well. Your error lies in what you think a retcon is.

Always understood it to be this:

Wikipedia said:
Retroactive continuity (retcon for short) is the alteration of previously established facts in a fictional work.[2] Retcons are done for many reasons, including the accommodation of sequels or further derivative works in a series, wherein newer authors or creators want to revise the in-story history to allow a course of events that would not have been possible in the story's original continuity

This is exactly what happened with the whole Ansem SOD =/= AtW situation.
It was taken as fact that they were the same person in Kh1. Then, in KH2, those facts were altered for "the accommodation of sequels... to allow a course of events that would not have been possible" otherwise.

A retcon is changing something that has already been entrenched in an antecedent story; altering what was previously established in a prior installment. This is why retcons are considered forms of poor storytelling for the most part; no one would complain about them if that wasn't the case.

Take for example what you said about Roxas' reasons for leaving Organization XIII. That is a retcon, not a plot hole.

It was originally stated that Roxas left the Organization to find and try to meet Sora.
In Days, he leaves because of Xion. Also, he completely hates Sora at that point because he wants to be his own person.
That's not altering fact. When you alter something, it's still what is. This is completely making what was fact completely false.

I'm going to give a cruddy example here, but for the sake of argument, bare with it:
Say that a Scientist discovers that Oxygen doesn't do anything for the human body and that just the action of breathing is how we live.
Now, Oxygen giving us energy is accepted as fact. But, now, because of that Scientist's discovery, it's not. The fact wasn't altered, it was completely proven false.

A plot hole on the other hand can be a contradiction as well, but it's in a different context. Part of the difference is that there are different forms of plot holes -- a contradiction of an event or statement is only one of them. Whereas there is only specific type of retcon.

Contradictions are only plot holes when it happens in the same installment, not within two different ones. This is why you never hear of retcons being made on the first game of a series, or on stand alone stories of any medium; only plot holes, if there is any to begin with.

Okay, you're right on this part. There are different types of plot holes.
But, that doesn't really change anything about what I said since contradictions are a type of plot hole.
 

Zen

Silver Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
4,745
Awards
2
This is exactly what happened with the whole Ansem SOD =/= AtW situation.
It was taken as fact that they were the same person in Kh1. Then, in KH2, those facts were altered for "the accommodation of sequels... to allow a course of events that would not have been possible" otherwise.

Except that it was never directly stated that Ansem SoD was AtW in the first game. Mickey points out that the guy in the painting isn't Ansem, but Xehanort. Xehanort and Ansem SoD aren't necessarily the same person either. Mickey assumed Sora was talking about AtW when he was thinking of Ansem SoD. Mickey just corrected him. Nothing was really changed.

It was originally stated that Roxas left the Organization to find and try to meet Sora.
In Days, he leaves because of Xion. Also, he completely hates Sora at that point because he wants to be his own person.
That's not altering fact. When you alter something, it's still what is. This is completely making what was fact completely false.

According to wikipedia, it sorta is. Roxas' days in the Organization were vaguely shown in KH2 where the context sounds different because you only see part of it. It adds more to it by "filling in" details and giving us a different interpretation of the events.

I'm going to give a cruddy example here, but for the sake of argument, bare with it:
Say that a Scientist discovers that Oxygen doesn't do anything for the human body and that just the action of breathing is how we live.
Now, Oxygen giving us energy is accepted as fact. But, now, because of that Scientist's discovery, it's not. The fact wasn't altered, it was completely proven false.

You're right, your example is terrible because science is subject to change. It isn't at all how it works in good storytelling.

Altering something that we know for a fact is true is a retcon. Retcons don't prove previous knowledge to be false, they just change it without a proper explanation, or one at all.

Okay, you're right on this part. There are different types of plot holes.
But, that doesn't really change anything about what I said since contradictions are a type of plot hole.

Yes it does, because no one is confusing retcons with plot holes.
 

Domination

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
184
Awards
4
Location
Australia
I'm wondering the same thing. Izeno's age was definately something that confused the heck out of us, mostly because of the whole "Nobodies don't age" thing.

We don't know exactly when Ienzo and the other apprentices turned into a heartless. For all we know, it could have only been 4 years before the 'Heartless Invasion' on Destiny Islands. Therefore explaining the age gap between Ienzo and Zexion.
 

Chaser

Not KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
23,684
Awards
70
Location
Australia
We don't know exactly when Ienzo and the other apprentices turned into a heartless. For all we know, it could have only been 4 years before the 'Heartless Invasion' on Destiny Islands. Therefore explaining the age gap between Ienzo and Zexion.
We know it was 1 year after Apprentice Xehanort was taken in by Ansem and 9 years before the start of KH1
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top