[SPOILER ALERT!] What do you think will/want to be Retconned in DDD?

[Horizon's Knight]

As we all know, Nomura said that this game will "deconstruct past elements", which in other word means that quite a lot of things mentioned in the past will be retconned. So, what do you think will be retconned, and what do you want to be retconned?

Personally, I'd like for the Soul to be retconned from just a life force to one's entire spiritual existence that is made up of the Heart (the emotions and sense of self), Will/Spirit (the motivation and the body's life force), Mind/Memories, and Dreams (a person's ambitions and subconsious thoughts drawn from memories). After all, Nomura only mentioned the Soul in KH2, which was only brought up via the SARs.

EDIT: Just so you know, the quote below from Luap911 shows what I mean by retcon:

Just to point out, I see that some are confusing retcon and plot holes. Retcon is altering fact, but by a means that doesn't necessarily make what was started before false. Ansem SOD not being AtW, but rather XH, is Retcon. It just states that fact that Ansem SOD was an impostor. So, nothing in KH1 is proved false, just makes you see it from a different perspective.


A plot hole is an actual contradiction that makes something stated previous false. Example being the reasons for Roxas leaving the Organization. That was completely changed from how it was told in KH2 in Days.

 

[OathkeeperRoxas XIII]

Please don't start anything, Please?

 

[Horizon's Knight]

Please don't start anything, Please?

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say.

 

[OathkeeperRoxas XIII]

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say.

Making a thread about 'retcons' from DDD? It's asking for trouble. So don't start trouble.

 

[Horizon's Knight]

Making a thread about 'retcons' from DDD? It's asking for trouble. So don't start trouble.

That is inevitable. It's obvious that Nomura is going to do it anyways, so why not discuss the matter rather than just ignore it? Also, can you please tell me what kind of trouble this will cause?

 

[OathkeeperRoxas XIII]

That is inevitable. It's obvious that Nomura is going to do it anyways, so why not discuss the matter rather than just ignore it? Also, can you please tell me what kind of trouble this will cause?

It's just this, there haven't really been any major 'retcons', only different explainations from what we first thought. Instead of looking for 'retcons', why don't you just wait for the game to come out?

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

It's just this, there haven't really been any major 'retcons', only different explainations from what we first thought. Instead of looking for 'retcons', why don't you just wait for the game to come out?

Or we go on with the topic proposed by the OP instead of complaining, yeah?







That said, I'm hoping there won't really be any "retcons". The series has been good to keep things correct, but of course there ends up being digressions along the way. I really only hope they explain the 10 year gap between BBS and KH1 better. The age discrepancies between Ienzo and Zexion being one thing, and everything that involved the Darkness invading Radiant Garden because I am completely confused over what happened then.

 

[Horizon's Knight]

That said, I'm hoping there won't really be any "retcons". The series has been good to keep things correct, but of course there ends up being digressions along the way. I really only hope they explain the 10 year gap between BBS and KH1 better. The age discrepancies between Ienzo and Zexion being one thing, and everything that involved the Darkness invading Radiant Garden because I am completely confused over what happened then.

I'm wondering the same thing. Izeno's age was definately something that confused the heck out of us, mostly because of the whole "Nobodies don't age" thing.

 

[rokudamia2]

Nomura's nowhere near as bad as Kojima when it comes to retcon's.

 

[Chrono Mizaki]

Making a thread about 'retcons' from DDD? It's asking for trouble. So don't start trouble.

...I'm just going to complain... just to spite you.

I doubt there be much retcons. What was retconned so far in the KH series?

 

[Zen]

It's just this, there haven't really been any major 'retcons', only different explainations from what we first thought. Instead of looking for 'retcons', why don't you just wait for the game to come out?

This is the same as saying not to speculate or come up with any theories at all regarding DDD, and to instead just wait for the game to come out. It's not in your place, or anyone's to mandate a cease of these discussions; not to mention that there isn't anything relatively wrong, or troublesome in bringing up the topic of retroactive continuity.

As for the topic:

I don't believe the statement of "deconstruct past elements" necessarily means he'll make new retcons. Deconstruct means analyzing something in order to "expose its hidden internal assumptions and contradictions and subvert its apparent significance or unity". It's probably means that he'll put things in perspective when it comes to certain concepts like the heart in KH.

I haven't read said interview, but it also depends on the context. =\

 

[gelandporn]

I'd like to point out that there is a decent chance that something(s) will be retconned.

Nomura talked about something shocking that defies previous knowledge, which to me sounds like retcon. As has been discussed, though, that doesn't necessarily make this a bad thing.

 

[Lonbilly]

The only things I want to see "retconned" are Namine being a Nobody so she can run amock herself (was there a point in staying in Kairi, really?) and for the "Nobodies don't age" rule to be either thrown out or explained to have been something "Xemnas told the others" or whatever as a lie.

Because evidently, they have aged.

 

[Absolute]

I'd like to point out that there is a decent chance that something(s) will be retconned.

Nomura talked about something shocking that defies previous knowledge, which to me sounds like retcon. As has been discussed, though, that doesn't necessarily make this a bad thing.

Sounds about right. It could be a clearing up of something we knew but wasn't certain. A bad retcon would be like 'Sora never unlocked his heart with the dark keyblade in KHI, but instead Ven had enough power to take control of Sora's body and forced him to do it to free his heart.'

I can see them finally explaining what Namine really is. However, I can imagine the people screaming 'RETCON!' in anger at that and how Nomura is changing the game too much, ignoring that even in-game it was said that they called her a nobody because they didn't know what she really was.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Sounds about right. It could be a clearing up of something we knew but wasn't certain. A bad retcon would be like 'Sora never unlocked his heart with the dark keyblade in KHI, but instead Ven had enough power to take control of Sora's body and forced him to do it to free his heart.'

I can see them finally explaining what Namine really is. However, I can imagine the people screaming 'RETCON!' in anger at that and how Nomura is changing the game too much, ignoring that even in-game it was said that they called her a nobody because they didn't know what she really was.

The first example you pointed out would really be a retcon to throw out of the window.

Otherwise though, there are quite some procedures and things we have either only a shaky or even insecure explanation about.
It can very well be that we'll get presented the fact that an in-game.explanation we (and even the characters themselves in the games) thought to be correct was actually a fallacy or a simple misinterpretation.

Explaining what Naminé really is wouldn't be a retcon, it was clearly stated in the Secret Ansem Reports that DiZ himself didn't even know what she is and only called her a nobody for simplification.
Now, for example if we would learn that the light that destroyed Ansem SoD at the end of KH 1 was in fact not Kingdom Hearts itself but an attack from Aqua...that would be a retcon.
If a good or bad one would depend on the explanation and plausibility I would say.

 

[Vanitas666]

I want nobodies to officially have feelings

 

[alexis.anagram]

I don't believe the statement of "deconstruct past elements" necessarily means he'll make new retcons. Deconstruct means analyzing something in order to "expose its hidden internal assumptions and contradictions and subvert its apparent significance or unity".

This. "Deconstruct" does not mean "rewrite"; it means Nomura is planning to offer more insight into the KH universe, its characters and the events we've seen take place, some of which may contradict what was previously presumed by us, as the audience, and perhaps by characters within the story. I think with DDD, Nomura's finally going to address some of the more ambiguous aspects of the KH series, which could be equally catastrophic to retconning everything seeing as KH is built around a sort of poetic license; but he isn't actually planning to unhinge any of the internal logic of the story or reconstruct any of the definitive plot points as they stand.

Nomura talked about something shocking that defies previous knowledge, which to me sounds like retcon.

I think that simply means it won't necessarily be predictable based on the scope of information we, as an audience, have been given (which is the point of a twist). A retcon entails an actual contradiction of the series' functioning premise; the fact is, there's so little we definitively know about the world of KH that any clarification or expansion of ideas is liable to surprise us. Be it the hearts of people and worlds, the very nature of Kingdom Hearts and its different incarnations, the spirit, body and mind, Xehanort's motivations, Namine, Xion, the Princesses of Heart, Ansem the Wise's research, the data inside Sora, or any of the number of ways characters in the story might be connected with each other and not even realize it, Nomura doesn't lack in ambiguous storytelling devices he can pick and choose from to toy with while not actually disengaging from the established continuity of KH as a whole.

Now, for example if we would learn that the light that destroyed Ansem SoD at the end of KH 1 was in fact not Kingdom Hearts itself but an attack from Aqua...that would be a retcon.

Even that wouldn't be a proper retcon (although it'd be close enough). It would be awful storytelling, but we have no definitive proof that Kingdom Hearts was what destroyed Ansem SoD; we presume based on Sora's (and other's) anecdotal statements that it was. A proper retcon would be more like, Kairi was never actually saved at the end of KH1, she's actually in the Realm of Sleep and the character we've seen since then has been Xion taking her form. That defies the qualitative rationale of the story itself in a number of ways; it doesn't simply reconstruct what we thought we knew, it rejects direct evidence determined by the logic of the story itself.

 

[Luap]

Just to point out, I see that some are confusing retcon and plot holes. Retcon is altering fact, but by a means that doesn't necessarily make what was started before false. Ansem SOD not being AtW, but rather XH, is Retcon. It just states that fact that Ansem SOD was an impostor. So, nothing in KH1 is proved false, just makes you see it from a different perspective.

A plot hole is an actual contradiction that makes something stated previous false. Example being the reasons for Roxas leaving the Organization. That was completely changed from how it was told in KH2 in Days.



Anyways, I can see a number of things being retconned. Especially things from 2nd-tier canon (interviews, mostly). A lot of the things Nomura has stated in past interviews have been changed when the ideas are presented into the game (Nomura said the Heartless had to be destroyed first to bring back the Somebody; Yen Sid doesn't state any order at all, just that the Heartless and Nobody have to be destroyed). Things like Nobodies not aging could be easily changed, as the game's canon outranks what Nomura says in interviews.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

(Nomura said the Heartless had to be destroyed first to bring back the Somebody; Yen Sid doesn't state any order at all, just that the Heartless and Nobody have to be destroyed).

That's actually not correct, Nomura didn't state that at all, here's the actual snippet in question:

Spoiler Show

When the Heartless are defeated, what becomes of the stolen hearts? Also, when members of Organization XIII and other Nobodies are defeated, do they return to their original form?

When Heartless are defeated, essentially the owner's hearts are rejoined with their once extinguished body, whichever world it may be on. As for the whereabouts of hearts in KHII that turn up, this time they remarkably went to the Organization (there is a foot note here that says "In Kingdom Hearts II after Heartless were defeated, the many hearts were absorbed by the Kingdom Hearts of "people's hearts"). However, in the rare case that the body changed into a Nobody, when there is no container for the heart it resorts to a state of suspension.
In the case of a Nobody being defeated, it's a little more complicated. If the above mentioned hearts are liberated, they return to their original form. However, if the heart is still stolen by the Heartless, the Nobody's body is swallowed by darkness. If somewhere in the world their hearts are taken back, perhaps they might be able to return to their original human form.

As shown there, Nomura practically covers both cases.

In general though it is correct, some things from older Nomura interviews (especially non-Ultimania ones) might get changed around.

 

[rac7d]

I'm wondering the same thing. Izeno's age was definately something that confused the heck out of us, mostly because of the whole "Nobodies don't age" thing.

well if thats sceane we saw was present we might finally get an explanation to it