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New Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Screenshots Show Off Unreal Engine 4



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king_mickey rule

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Or 3) They're not aiming for it to look as great as Final Fantasy XV does?
While I do agree that I'd love to see Aqua the way she looks on those sexy CGI-pics ingame as well, I still gotta admit that I also like the way she looks in 2.8 as of now. Not because Nomura throws it at me and I accept it. I LIKE it.
Calling that "trash" and badmouthing such an opinion isn't objective in any kind of way.

Who's talking about Final Fantasy XV? That's a game that's going for a realistic look, which Kingdom Hearts obviously isn't and never should be going for.

Why Lnds brought up Final Fantasy XV in the first place is to show that they succeeded in getting the in-game visuals look like the CGI visuals, which in theory should be harder to do than getting the Kingdom Hearts CGI look.

I think a lot of you are misunderstanding our issues with the current visuals: wanting better visuals =/= realism.

Again, there are fundamental issues with the visuals that would make the look of the game loads better. Certain elements are lacking. And other developers succeed in getting that look right. Why is Square-Enix, out of all developers, seemingly having trouble with it?

They can (and probably want) than this.
 
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Audo

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The examples Lnds shows are all the proof you need to see how inferior current in-game graphics are, compared to CGI versions of the same character.
They said from the very beginning that they were not at all aiming to have them match their CGI versions. So the fact that they do not match is not all that pertinent of a point.

Like, yeah, it's impressive that Noctis matches so closely to his rendered form, but that was literally one of their biggest, stated goals when developing Versus (and FFXV). It is not the goal of the KH3 team.

There are a load of reasons to believe the current look isn't what they initially envisioned
Initial or not, Nomura himself believes that they have more or less captured what they aim to with Unreal.

Like I've said before, this could mean two things:

1) they're still very much polishing said visuals
2) they're having issues with the engine
or 3) there are various limitations with the engine which is why it doesn't match Luminous (no two engines are the same after all, different engines excel at different things), but they are satisfied with what they've been capable of producing.


Though, to be honest, I feel like we're at a point of diminishing returns with this topic. We have the same discussions and arguments every time there is a trailer :/ And, for better or worse, the art style is staying.
 

kirabook

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That comparison shot with current Aqua vs past Aqua was kind of what I meant about the 'shine'. I'm not asking for realism, pores, individual hairs, and the assortment of other things that you would expect from an FF game. The openings are as about "FF" as I imagined KH would become.

The newer model just has this extra saturation and extra shine and I truly wonder if that's what Nomura was going for? It seems like he was aiming for something more similar to the DDD opening, and it's just not quite there yet.

There's a weird disconnect with how Backcover looks color and 'shine' wise compared to 0.2 at the moment. I'm not super concerned because if Backcover looks so nice (to me), then surely 0.2 will be fine. Even if it's not, I'll have to accept it despite my grievances, because that's just how it goes.

Also note, the model itself is fine -though her surprised face looks a little strange for a split second-. It's purely just a matter of color tweaking imo. I understand the requirement of the model being visible when put against a detailed background though, which is why her model looks great while it's in action. But in the cutscenes... the extra 'shine' applied to it becomes unnecessary and a bit distracting.
 
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You know, I thought BBS 0.2 would have some form of the Command Deck. Sadly for me, it does not. But at the very least, I've gotta say these graphics are outstanding, especially in Back Cover. It's really dynamic and pertains to a lot of visual aesthetics in Back Cover, and I can't wait to play it. Although, I never finished the first two remasters because my PS3 is in need of repair. FeelsBadMan.
 

Sora2016

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That comparison shot with current Aqua vs past Aqua was kind of what I meant about the 'shine'. I'm not asking for realism, pores, individual hairs, and the assortment of other things that you would expect from an FF game. The openings are as about "FF" as I imagined KH would become.

The newer model just has this extra saturation and extra shine and I truly wonder if that's what Nomura was going for? It seems like he was aiming for something more similar to the DDD opening, and it's just not quite there yet.

There's a weird disconnect with how Backcover looks color and 'shine' wise compared to 0.2 at the moment. I'm not super concerned because if Backcover looks so nice (to me), then surely 0.2 will be fine. Even if it's not, I'll have to accept it despite my grievances, because that's just how it goes.

Also note, the model itself is fine -though her surprised face looks a little strange for a split second-. It's purely just a matter of color tweaking imo. I understand the requirement of the model being visible when put against a detailed background though, which is why her model looks great while it's in action. But in the cutscenes... the extra 'shine' applied to it becomes unnecessary and a bit distracting.

Admittedly, part of me has questioned if the extra shine is the "Kingdom Shader" for the Realm of Darkness, mostly because the render we got of 2.8 Aqua and her hair is quite duller than in these scenes. And then yeah you bring up how nothing in Back Cover looks quite like that either.

Not sure how likely that actually is ha.
 

Lnds500

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They said from the very beginning that they were not at all aiming to have them match their CGI versions. So the fact that they do not match is not all that pertinent of a point.

Like, yeah, it's impressive that Noctis matches so closely to his rendered form, but that was literally one of their biggest, stated goals when developing Versus (and FFXV). It is not the goal of the KH3 team.

Can I get a source for that? I am looking at old interviews and I can't find that.

EDIT: This is the only thing I've found and he says the exact opposite, unless he changed his tune later on

How about the graphics?
Nomura: We're aiming for a photo realistic representation combined with a tone of each Disney world.

http://www.khinsider.com/news/Conversation-with-Creators-Tetsuya-Nomura-Interview-3449

EDIT 2: Found what you mean.

Is the painted looking visual something that you’ve wanted to implement for a long time?

Nomura
:
Since the very first title, the graphic gradation was made with the intention of representing the painted look of Disney's animations. But with the hardware back then didn't have the capability to adjust the lighting freely, so we tried to portray a painted visual in the textures we used. But this time the hardware's capabilities are better, there is no option of "not using light." You don't get a sense of graphical evolution just by setting old graphics to HD, my goal with the next gen isn't to do something that reproduces the pre-rendered scenes from KH1 & KH2 in real time. I considered the concept of the visuals and thus the representation Kingdom Shader was created.

That... doesn't make sense to me. Nor does it explain why 0.2 has the unfinished look it has. Cause it definitely doesn't match what Nomura describes as the "Kingdom Shader", or photo-realistic graphics.

The only thing I can think of is that he was referring to the Disney worlds when he was talking about the Shader and to everything else when he was talking about "photo-realism". So the graphics should look closer to the CGI renders but that look will be changed when you visit specific Disney worlds.
 
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Muke

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EDIT

About the Shiny-Shit Topic...

[video=youtube;KI_NN9voxUw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI_NN9voxUw[/video]

If ya ask me, the only game/movie where the characters are "shiny" is 0.2. nd that may just be because they rushed or something, I have no idea.
BUT JUST LOOK AT THAT BACKCOVER.
 
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Lnds500

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EDIT

About the Shiny-Shit Topic...

[video=youtube;KI_NN9voxUw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI_NN9voxUw[/video]

If ya ask me, the only game/movie where the characters are "shiny" is 0.2. nd that may just be because they rushed or something, I have no idea.
BUT JUST LOOK AT THAT BACKCOVER.


The only thing that uses the Kingdom Shader in this video - per Nomura's descriptions- is the very start of the trailer, before the beach scene. Everything else is just regular

You saw it a little bit in the E3 trailer, this visual of a Disney 2D produced painted image represented in 3D.

tumblr_muw6dyQ0dw1qjcgkbo1_500.gif
 

Muke

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The only thing that uses the Kingdom Shader in this video - per Nomura's descriptions- is the very start of the trailer, before the beach scene. Everything else is just regular
So what now? I'm talking about the shine, not the Shader.
Whatever
 

ShardofTruth

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I have the feeling not everyone here is on the same page about what a shader is and what is does.

I mostly agree with Lnds500's observations but I'm not so sure the current graphic style is basically the result of a downgrade (for the lack of a better word) or if SE is still not there with establishing the right mood for every scene. Everything in Yen Sid's tower still looks notoriously bad and there is a stark contrast between Aqua, her surroundings and most effects. On the other hand the footage of KHIII and Back Cover shows that it can work.
 

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When I looked at KH3 again, it looks fine... EXCEPT when Sora goes into that dark place with the keyblade transformation. This is what originally turned me off when it first appeared too. Sora's skin looked like plastic.... when it was dark.

Could it be that darkness (whether it's the dark realm or just a dark area) coats the characters with a plastic look on purpose? (Well, except the scene in Yen Sid's tower, it has the same shine/shading problems, mostly Yen Sid himself)

Backcover just looks fantastic to me, it's really all I expect from the new games coming up. If everything ends up looking like that, then I have no problems. (The game between Eraqus and Xehanort is also top notch)
 

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That... doesn't make sense to me. Nor does it explain why 0.2 has the unfinished look it has. Cause it definitely doesn't match what Nomura describes as the "Kingdom Shader", or photo-realistic graphics.

I don't want to be a kill-joy but can I just point out that it is very unlikely 0.2 is actually finished yet so of course it will still have an unfinished look about it!!! I doubt the actual game won't be fully completed until Octoberish time.
 

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My thoughts may be a little rusty in that department, but is it even feasible to compare the scenes shown of 0.2 with Aqua/Yen Sid, Kairi and Riku (and any KH III gameplay footage) with instances like any scene from Back Cover or the DDD opening?

Shouldn't both of the latter instances be be pre-rendered material anyways and thus be impossible to reach by in-game scenes in terms of quality?
One should not forget that unlike the Days and Coded cutscene collections, Back Cover will be a true movie so most of it will probably be pre-rendered stuff that looks by default better than any actual gameplay footage or cutscenes using the gameplay-quality.
 

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For the most part all it really needs is for the skin to be a little more matte, i mean i know it's been said many times how shiny she looks, but i don't think it'd be that hard?? and it's not a matter that it's 'shinier' to make make it fit in with the disney worlds either. Look at all the newer cgi disney movies. Not that i am expecting movie worthy visuals at every turn, but none of them have weirdly shiny skin, and i doubt weirdly shiny models of the 2d films would look right either.

character_princess_rapunzel_314b7a09.jpeg
big-hero-6-tv-show.jpg

(a little bit of shine looks normal but not really the evenly oiled up aqua we see at the moment)

But as said, this'll probably get fixed by the time we get our hands on it.
 

king_mickey rule

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My thoughts may be a little rusty in that department, but is it even feasible to compare the scenes shown of 0.2 with Aqua/Yen Sid, Kairi and Riku (and any KH III gameplay footage) with instances like any scene from Back Cover or the DDD opening?

Shouldn't both of the latter instances be be pre-rendered material anyways and thus be impossible to reach by in-game scenes in terms of quality?
One should not forget that unlike the Days and Coded cutscene collections, Back Cover will be a true movie so most of it will probably be pre-rendered stuff that looks by default better than any actual gameplay footage or cutscenes using the gameplay-quality.

It takes a lot of work and even then, it won't look exactly the same, but it's definitely possible to make things look closer to the pre-rendered scenes.

I think a good example is the new Ratchet and Clank game, which has (iirc) cutscenes taken straight out of the movie. These cutscenes are also pre-rendered and look loads better than the actual game. However, the game itself still looks very close to those cutscenes.

Unreal Engine is a very capable engine for these kind of visuals, so I doubt this is the best they can do. Here's something a Zelda fan made with Unreal:

[video=youtube;GgbGgtq-NMc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgbGgtq-NMc[/video]

With the less realistic visuals, they could also put more resources in achieving higher framerates. I'm just worried they're rushing things for the sake of getting the game out early. Again, since 0.2 is pretty much a tech demo for Kingdom Hearts 3, now would be the time to get those concerns out there.

For the most part all it really needs is for the skin to be a little more matte, i mean i know it's been said many times how shiny she looks, but i don't think it'd be that hard?? and it's not a matter that it's 'shinier' to make make it fit in with the disney worlds either. Look at all the newer cgi disney movies. Not that i am expecting movie worthy visuals at every turn, but none of them have weirdly shiny skin, and i doubt weirdly shiny models of the 2d films would look right either.

100% agreed.
 
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