I wonder why DS's face hasn't been reveiled yet unlike the others...

[V.A.T.13]

Oh, you mentioned Mickey. Well, doesn't matter. Point still stands.

What? That Disney doesn't matter?

They look very different to me.

*shrugs* no skin off my back

No it wasn't. Point not get.

Then what was the point? "Don't compare character similarites?"

Big damn deal.

Could say the same about chin and eyebrows.

In a moment. But even so, his heart had been completely taken over when his body assumed the appearance of XH. He was just able to come back for about 2 seconds. Then he couldn't anymore. So, point null.

And you know this how? Riku's heart has never been completely taken over by darkness. Even in his profile it says "A heart that can not be eclipsed by darkness" Which makes me wonder if Riku's heart is too strong to become a heartless.

Pfff. You're the one who's blind if you can't see Terra isn't Xehanort, =/.

I thought we we're talking about an ear here, but anyway, you guys talk about it like its a sure thing. But it isn't. Its a maybe. My theory is a maybe, your theory is a maybe.
I've already thought of "what if Terra isn't part of xehanort" and made an optional theory. I've accepted both ideas. This one gets picked on the most, so I defend it the most.

Once again, apparently "MESSAGE NOT GET".

Explain message since I missed it.

No it doesn't.

I love how your so sure of things. All you seem to think of is "yes" and "no" while I think of "possibles", "maybes", and "what ifs" you know since...the game hasn't come out yet and all.
I am constantly thinking of new ideas and possibilities while you guys just stick to the same old thing, positive that its true.

Not always.

But sometimes. And in the case of Xehanort, its most likely to happen, and we know it's happened to Axel.

According to this, Terra is not Xehanort. Also, I don't get it. If it's the present, Terra's heart has been destroyed. His body and soul are Xemnas. How could he be there?

Battle takes place after you've beaten the game once before under certain circumstances, therefore, after you beat Xemnas. If Terra's battle was already there the first time you play, then that would be a different story.

Also, before you get started, Dis-Soul is fake. Dunno if you were ever gonna mention it, but there's no doubt it's fake now.

Alright, thanks for the obvious info.

The timing of that battle would have to be very, very convenient then...so I say it's the present.

Dude. It's a game. Convenient times are everywhere.

Still phail.

Only because you don't like it.

Um, and how do you know this?

Note the word probably.

Most of which phail.

Only because you don't like.

You do realize that most of your evidence just says: "Xemnas and Terra look alike. Asides this and the fact they both wear armor that looks completely different, they have little no nothing in common"...

Forgot to mention the rage, same attacks, and connections to the other two knights, and calling one of them friend. You may believe it's sarcastic, but for this theory, I believe it isn't.
Plus theres theres the possiblity of Aqua's nobody being the 14th member. If she is, why would Xemnas want/allow her to join if he disliked her so much? Also, it sounds like she came of her own free will.

Listen: even if that battle is not canon, still no evidence Terra lived. So still lose.

And of course, this is not a sure thing.

Also, possesion theory still loses.

Just because you don't like it. Told you before, heart plays an important role in KH. We see what physical differences happen when hearts are invovled.

Until the game comes out, you can't prove Terra is Xehanort. If that turns out to be true, there are going to be so many plot holes...Nomura will die. I'll make sure of it.

I can prove it as much as you can prove your theory.
Are either theories sure things? No. Are they both possible? Yes.
And the game already has plot holes, so of course theres gonna be more. With either of our theories.

Sigh... It says the heart and nobody will reform and return that person to their original form... As in the form they were before they became heartless and nobody... In other words, Xehanort...

According to this theory, is half Terra. We don't know if he will return with his memories or not.

Does not explain why Xehanort appears near death... And Terra did not look near death there... The memory loss and damage would almost have to happen at the same time...

What about the power of KH's blast eh? What about what happened afterword?

Six... And all of them revolve around appearence... Not to mention it looks only similiar, not exact...

What about your connections? Most of those are based on appearances also. Why? Because thats all we have so far.
If it were exact, it would be a dead giveaway and theres no fun in that.

Damn right I want a prize...! Give me cake...!

No way fatty.

 

[OmniChaos]

What about your connections? Most of those are based on appearances also. Why? Because thats all we have so far.

Yeah, but I also have the guardian like character connection and personality connection...

No way fatty.

Give me cake or be shunned to eternal damnation...!

 

[Wehrmacht]

What? That Disney doesn't matter?

Silence, infidel.

Then what was the point? "Don't compare character similarites?"

Not when they're too broad.

And you know this how? Riku's heart has never been completely taken over by darkness.

Epic lose. He wasn't taken over by darkness, he was taken over by Xehanort's heart.

Explain message since I missed it.

Okay. See, here's the thing: DiZ's machine was trying to contain KH, yes? It failed, since hearts are powerful and unpredictable.

It caused the machine to explode. This explosion changed Riku's appearance. What caused the explosion? Hearts. KH is a gathering/source of hearts. Hearts have potentially infinite power. Message get?

I am constantly thinking of new ideas and possibilities while you guys just stick to the same old thing, positive that its true.

We're all constantly thinking of new things.

But sometimes. And in the case of Xehanort, its most likely to happen, and we know it's happened to Axel.

Which does not mean it would be Terra that came back.

Battle takes place after you've beaten the game once before under certain circumstances, therefore, after you beat Xemnas. If Terra's battle was already there the first time you play, then that would be a different story.

....a part of me just died. Just because it's unlocked after Xemnas does not mean it's after said battle. Because, see, in irreversible canon, Sora and Riku are sent to DI directly after Xemnas. So, you lose. It has to take place during Sora's quest. No other time is possible.

See, when you go to fight Terra, Xemnas is still waiting for you at TWTNW.

The fact that it's unlocked after the game is beaten makes zero difference. Undeniable fact there.

Seriously.

Dude. It's a game. Convenient times are everywhere.

Not always.

Only because you don't like it.

No, because I provided you proof that it doesn't work.

Only because you don't like.

No.

Forgot to mention the rage,

Which MX and DS would also have.

same attacks,

Okay.

and connections to the other two knights,

Which MX and DS would also have.

and calling one of them friend.

You may believe it's sarcastic, but for this theory, I believe it isn't.

You can't prove squat.

Plus theres theres the possiblity of Aqua's nobody being the 14th member. If she is, why would Xemnas want/allow her to join if he disliked her so much? Also, it sounds like she came of her own free will.

Yeah, but we don't know that it's her yet. We also do not know if Xemnas remembers his past. Most likely not. She would be familiar to him, but perhaps he wouldn't realize it. Also, I seriously doubt he really liked any of the Org at all. To me, all he cared about was merging with his KH, and MAYBE getting his heart back. MAYBE.

Just because you don't like it. Told you before, heart plays an important role in KH. We see what physical differences happen when hearts are invovled.

Meh.

I can prove it as much as you can prove your theory.

Not really.

And the game already has plot holes, so of course theres gonna be more.

Point out all the plot holes you've found thus far.

What about the power of KH's blast eh? What about what happened afterword?

Does it matter?

What about your connections? Most of those are based on appearances also. Why? Because thats all we have so far.

Um, no they're not. They're based on behaviors and other things. Pretty much all you have is appearance, the fact that both wear armor that looks nothing alike, and other things which both Xemnas and MX and DS have in common.

 

[Darkwielder45]

it could be a character from the previous KH games...but at the same time in the FINALMIX+ secret ending....the DS comes from within Master Xehanort...almost as if it is Master Xehanorts heartless but Master Xehanort is able to summon his heartless...i mean i can't even count anything out at this point after seeing the secret ending and seeing how bad ass Master Xehanort is....its a good thoery that Riku may have a connection just because of the DS's outfit that resembles Riku's from KH1 but again this is back in the past and by this Riku is probably just a kid...

 

[sly-sora-star]

(wow, these are long posts....)
Well, of course the Dark Soldier's face isn't revealed. I mean, the game isn't even out yet. Don't you think it'd make more sense if we see his face when we're actually playing the game?

Maybe he's just a heartless...... Hey, Ansem had a heartless in human form. Maybe this is a heartless that came from someone.

 

[V.A.T.13]

Silence, infidel.

Don't you know, I never shut up?

Not when they're too broad.

I could say the same about eye colors. Xemnas, Saix, MX, ATW, Ansem(H), all have orange eyes. Yet we excluded Saix, and ATW as being Xehanort.Tell me, why...

Epic lose. He wasn't taken over by darkness, he was taken over by Xehanort's heart.

Which is....?
Darkness yo.

Okay. See, here's the thing: DiZ's machine was trying to contain KH, yes? It failed, since hearts are powerful and unpredictable.

You lost me = 3 =;
I don't think a machine and hearts are the same thing.

It caused the machine to explode. This explosion changed Riku's appearance. What caused the explosion? Hearts. KH is a gathering/source of hearts. Hearts have potentially infinite power. Message get?

Yes but what caused the Riku to change? The explosion. Not the hearts, not KH, the explosion. I guess your seeing it like an indirect kiss or something. = 3 =

We're all constantly thinking of new things.

Oh? What are some other theories you've come up with that doesn't deal with this one?

Which does not mean it would be Terra that came back.

Depending on how everything goes down.
Xehanort can come back with half of Terra,
Or Terra can come back, and MX is floating around in a brown coat like in KH1, looking for his next victim.
It does not have to mean this, but it's a possibility.

....a part of me just died. Just because it's unlocked after Xemnas does not mean it's after said battle. Because, see, in irreversible canon, Sora and Riku are sent to DI directly after Xemnas. So, you lose. It has to take place during Sora's quest. No other time is possible.

See, when you go to fight Terra, Xemnas is still waiting for you at TWTNW.

The fact that it's unlocked after the game is beaten makes zero difference. Undeniable fact there.

Seriously.

Dude. If that we're the case, then why not put it in the first round, and not make you play it a 2nd round?

Not always.

But most of the time. Especially in cases like these. it was convenient that Sora landed in Traverse Town where Donald and Goofy were. It was convenient that Riku ended up in hallow bastion. Out of all the worlds out there, it was convenient that Sora and Riku kept running into each other.

No, because I provided you proof that it doesn't work.

scroll up.

No.

So you do like?

Which MX and DS would also have.

Yea? I'm not denying the X's and DS's connections here.

Which MX and DS would also have.

Again, not denying it.

You can't prove squat.

Can't prove he was being sarcastic either. You just believe he is, just as I don't believe he is in this theory.

Yeah, but we don't know that it's her yet. We also do not know if Xemnas remembers his past. Most likely not. She would be familiar to him, but perhaps he wouldn't realize it. Also, I seriously doubt he really liked any of the Org at all. To me, all he cared about was merging with his KH, and MAYBE getting his heart back. MAYBE.

Well then, I guess I'm allowed to believe that a part of him was being honest. But, even though Xemnas mocked about having a heart, I'm pretty sure he wanted one since. You know. He had been trying to get one n all. If he just wanted KH's power, why not go look for the heart of all worlds like Ansem(H) did? I mean, that one is the most powerful one right? Why create a whole new one? To get a heart of course.

Not really.

Did you not see the theory months ago? Course I did.

Point out all the plot holes you've found thus far.

Namine being female when coming from a male's body,
Riku's blindfold that has been taken off twice,
Kingdom Hearts being called 3 things: Light, darkness, or hearts ( I have my own explanation for this though)
How Axel got into the digital Twilight Town
How Axel is able to tap into Rox' consciousness yet he has no heart
Way to Dawn's realm
Created heartless have symbols, and natural nobodies have symbols
When Riku's heart went to KH, Ansem had his body, where was his soul?
First game says you become a heartless when you lose your heart, 2nd game says when your heart is taken over by darkness, you become a heartless.
How does the whole "being born" thing in KH work? In the world of KH you are born, yet your heart comes from kh. wtf? ( have my own explanation )
Why doesn't Xemnas have a keyblade, if his original does? ( I have an explanation for this as well )

Does it matter?

Yes, because whatever happened afterward causes him to be half dead no?

Um, no they're not. They're based on behaviors and other things. Pretty much all you have is appearance, the fact that both wear armor that looks nothing alike, and other things which both Xemnas and MX and DS have in common.

Behaviors that we have witnessed therefore, appearance, and I have yet to see MX and DS in-game attacks.

Yeah, but I also have the guardian like character connection and personality connection...

and I have attacks and connections to the two knights

Give me cake or be shunned to eternal damnation...!

I hang out on chan boards. I'm already dammned and shunned. :/

 

[Wehrmacht]

Don't you know, I never shut up?

I noticed.

I could say the same about eye colors. Xemnas, Saix, MX, ATW, Ansem(H), all have orange eyes. Yet we excluded Saix, and ATW as being Xehanort.Tell me, why...

Because Saix has yellow eyes, and AtW can't be Xehanort.

Which is....?
Darkness yo.

A HEART corrupted by darkness. Not just darkness.

You lost me = 3 =;
I don't think a machine and hearts are the same thing.

No, but what caused it to explode is what matters.

Yes but what caused the Riku to change? The explosion. Not the hearts, not KH, the explosion. I guess your seeing it like an indirect kiss or something. = 3 =

Explosion was still caused by hearts. Point moot.

Oh? What are some other theories you've come up with that doesn't deal with this one?

I'd tell you about them, but I'd need to make a thread first.

Dude. If that we're the case, then why not put it in the first round, and not make you play it a 2nd round?

Replay value. To make it feel like you earned it. Also, you are still forgetting the canocity issue.

But most of the time. Especially in cases like these. it was convenient that Sora landed in Traverse Town where Donald and Goofy were. It was convenient that Riku ended up in hallow bastion. Out of all the worlds out there, it was convenient that Sora and Riku kept running into each other.

Hmmm....

So you do like?

No.

Can't prove he was being sarcastic either. You just believe he is, just as I don't believe he is in this theory.

Fine.

Well then, I guess I'm allowed to believe that a part of him was being honest. But, even though Xemnas mocked about having a heart, I'm pretty sure he wanted one since. You know. He had been trying to get one n all.

Prove it.

If he just wanted KH's power, why not go look for the heart of all worlds like Ansem(H) did? I mean, that one is the most powerful one right? Why create a whole new one? To get a heart of course.

He already knew his heartless was after it, and he probably thought:"Why compete with him, when I can get my own KH and trick all these fools into helping me?".

Namine being female when coming from a male's body,

Apparently heart and soul matter more.

Riku's blindfold that has been taken off twice,

Okay.

Kingdom Hearts being called 3 things: Light, darkness, or hearts ( I have my own explanation for this though)

Um, there is both darkness and light in hearts, and since KH is hearts, therefore it has both.

How Axel got into the digital Twilight Town

His l33t h4zurz skillz.

How Axel is able to tap into Rox' consciousness yet he has no heart

Not plot hole.

Way to Dawn's realm

Okay, plot hole.

Created heartless have symbols, and natural nobodies have symbols

Not so much as a plot hole as it is an aesthetic change.

When Riku's heart went to KH, Ansem had his body, where was his soul?

Inside his body. With Ansem.

First game says you become a heartless when you lose your heart, 2nd game says when your heart is taken over by darkness, you become a heartless.

Both mean the same thing, really.

How does the whole "being born" thing in KH work? In the world of KH you are born, yet your heart comes from kh. wtf? ( have my own explanation )

Yeah. When you're born, you get a heart from KH.

Why doesn't Xemnas have a keyblade, if his original does? ( I have an explanation for this as well )

Can't remember. Roxas couldn't either, and he didn't have his true keyblades either,

Yes, because whatever happened afterward causes him to be half dead no?

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

Behaviors that we have witnessed therefore, appearance, and I have yet to see MX and DS in-game attacks.

So? What's your point? We still have more.

and I have attacks and connections to the two knights

Well, I don't have the attacks, but the connections to the two knights are things both MX and DS possess.

 

[Axel Dog]

Points to: Xehanort/Terra Connections (countering the MX/Xehanort list)


1, 2, 3, 4... Hair and eyes and face and bla bla


http://www.khinsider.com/images/FutureOfKH/Avatars/ava1.jpg

http://www.kingdomhearts3.us/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/kh2fm_86.thumbnail.png

http://www.kingdomhearts3.us/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/kh2fm_91.thumbnail.jpg

http://www.tikalnetwork.com/XemnasAvatar.jpg

http://sifol.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/xemnas01.jpg

http://www.khextreme.co.uk/media/avatars/Xemnas_Avatar_Deep.jpg




I also find the family or "brother" theory strange, in terms of Nomura and Kingdom Hearts thus far.

Also in terms of physicality, I find Xehanort/Xehanort's Heartless/Xemnas all have a more upright, understated and noble posture. MX's is very hunched and crooked, his neck craning, ect. Not to mention he's old. So, what we're talking about is 2 possibility (in this arguement)

1 - MX, threw some power or reaction of Kingdom Hearts becomes young

2 - MX, in some act of desperation posseses Terra to some extent (being partial or complete.) this brings us to next point....





5.. PREVIOUS THEMES OF POSSESION IN KH

Xehanort's Heartless posses Riku. Maybe that is the reason we see a Master Xehanort old, who's to say that's Xehanort's original self, perhaps he posses a young person everytime a body gets too old and weak for him. Anyway, it's a simple mater of making deductions BASED on things we've seen thus far. Facts. In doing so it seems MORE LIKLY that a theme of possession is present over that of a theme of returned youth. IMO.

Also Note that Terra means "earth" and riku means "land" . Riku is the most involved/attracted/suseptible to darkness and was possessed, so it makes sense that Terra could be affiliated with darkness. Makes sense that he could give in to MX. I like the idea of someone seeing their two best friends slaughtered, that breaking you, and then turning to darkness/MX.


6.
The Lingering Sentiment (Enigmatic Soldier) is the same as the armored youth in the movie, but when he fights Sora he mentions “Aqua” and “Ven”.
Translated as Lingering? That's interested. The Dead are often said to "linger", esp ghosts and such. Also who's to say the black hole you enter to fight "Terra" Isn't some wormhole in time? Just because we fight Terra does not indicate we fight terra in the present or, presently. NOT TO MENTION It's Disney Castle we're talking about, oh, the same place where we traveled in the past before? Coincidence?






7. Xemnas refering to aqua's armor as an old friend. Saying this is a "sarcastic" remark is a weak and lame justification. But that's just my opinion, so lets look at some facts:

Xemnas to AtW: "Ansem the Wise... you look pathetic."

wow, that's pretty direct. Wouldn't a more Sarcastic Xemnas say something like, "Hey AtW, old FRIEND, how's it going?"

Doesn't seem to be his style...I'll buy it when you show me ONE other time Xemnas is sarcastic.




8. (from The Director's Secret Reports XIII from FM+)

XII - Of the people that appear in the new secret movie "Birth By Sleep" that was added to KHII:FM, several names and figures are recognizable and must be extremely meaningful. Giving specifics is likely impossible, but could you give us a hint? Furthermore, do the 3 armored figures that appear there and the similar looking armored figure in the Last Battle have some relation to Xemnas?

For the recognizable figures and the recognizable faces, reaching the secret this time is extremely difficult, but I think the video is fairly spectacular and will stir you imaginations. The armored figures have a connection to Xemnas but after all I can't give any specifics at the present stage. But, the video this time has a foreboding opening and please think of the figures ahead as having reason and a hinting connection.

Your a fool if your denying the similarity between Xemnas's Nobody Armor and the armor of Terra, Ven, and Aqua. First of all, THERE BOTH BIG BULKY ANTIQUE LOOKING ARMOR. That alone is parrallel enough, even if you want to be lame and say the specifics don't look similiar "to you". Not to mention the presence of what appears to be a huge pointy DRAGON in the first secret video.


9. Obscure, but Zexion saying Riku's scent reminded him of Xemnas. If Xemnas=Terra's nobody and Terra means earth and Riku means land.........



10. A line from the BBS Trailer: After he rests his weapon into the ground, the two boys he was watching are clearer and they look like Sora and Riku. Soon after, Terra says "Please don't depend on me, just erase me... friend."

A line (most likly) inentionally similair to Xemnas's line to Aqua's Armor. I wonder if Terra was being Sarcastic then as well?



So there are 10 or so points. And there are many counterpoints, but the point is like V. A. T. was saying is that both sides are just theory. Don't be ignorant and act like something is just NOT. " No. No, wrong. Wrong. Phail" Specificlly you Hades. You sound Ignorant and awkward.

 

[V.A.T.13]

I noticed.

Comes with having tits. :'p

Because Saix has yellow eyes, and AtW can't be Xehanort.

Just like Goofy can't be Terra
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/Sorade/SaixFace.png Check again. Orange.

A HEART corrupted by darkness. Not just darkness.

Based on that logic, heartless arn't darkness.

No, but what caused it to explode is what matters.

A girl can cause a man to get AIDS, but is it the girl that killed him, or the AIDS? With your logic, we should kill the girl for giving it to him instead of finding a cure for the virus.

Explosion was still caused by hearts. Point moot.

Caused by hearts, but wasn't hearts.

I'd tell you about them, but I'd need to make a thread first.

I'll be waiting for those.

Replay value. To make it feel like you earned it. Also, you are still forgetting the canocity issue.

Exactly. So point is, that the battle was added in for fun.
Adding the battle period was enough for replay value. Hell, fm+ without it has a high replay value.
If it's canon, and they wanted to add it as present, then they would of put it in first time you play.
But, if it's canon, and they wanted you to fight him after xemmy, then you can't add it in after the battle because of that ending, so no matter what, it would have to happen before at some time. So, they make you play it, beat xemmy, then add it in afterwards.

No.

Then I rest my case. >3

Prove it.

The proof was below. = 3 =;

He already knew his heartless was after it, and he probably thought:"Why compete with him, when I can get my own KH and trick all these fools into helping me?".

Yet his heartless was "ded" after KH2, so he could of went after it then.
If he wanted power, he would go after it. Yet the one he makes is weaker than the original. If you want power, you want the best. Not a cheap knock off.
Another thing, why create hearts of men, when you could create hearts of worlds which in fact would be more powerful.
Because of this, it would seem that Xemmy actually cared about getting a heart. If he wanted power he could of done the things I've said above.

Apparently heart and soul matter more.

Yes, it seems a heart and soul can change your sex. If that's the case, I expect Axel's somebody to be female. >>;

Um, there is both darkness and light in hearts, and since KH is hearts, therefore it has both.

That was my explanation, but the game does not say this about KH. Therefore, plothole.

His l33t h4zurz skillz.

Pfft Axel? Computer smart? Puh-leaze. He'd get pissed and roast the damn computer before trying to hack it. But anyway, plot hole.

Not plot hole.

How is it not?

Not so much as a plot hole as it is an aesthetic change.

Its still a hole to have fake creatures with symbols, and naturals have no symbol, and then in the next game, have naturals with symbols.
Unless of course, they are NOT naturals, and future games reveal this. But since current games say nothing, it's a plot hole.

Inside his body. With Ansem.

Does the game say this?

Both mean the same thing, really.

Yes, because we have interpret it as such. The game does not say which is right though.

Yeah. When you're born, you get a heart from KH.

I have yet to see this who this works.

Can't remember. Roxas couldn't either, and he didn't have his true keyblades either,

That basically was my explination cept that Roxas has them because his somebody remembers them.
But still, not said in the game or inteviews. Plot hole

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

...Confused? :/

So? What's your point? We still have more.

So your agreeing that appearance works? And, you DO know I don't disagree with your ideas completely, I just add Terra into the mix is all. Still plausible. And I want more than a "No it isn't" answer. Explain your reasons ho.

Well, I don't have the attacks, but the connections to the two knights are things both MX and DS possess.

The theory I have, is a friendly connection. The theory you have, is un-friendly.
As I've said before, Aqua's nobody being the 14th member hints at a friendly connection. If she is that is.

 

[OmniChaos]

Also in terms of physicality, I find Xehanort/Xehanort's Heartless/Xemnas all have a more upright, understated and noble posture. MX's is very hunched and crooked, his neck craning, ect. Not to mention he's old. So, what we're talking about is 2 possibility (in this arguement)

1 - MX, threw some power or reaction of Kingdom Hearts becomes young

2 - MX, in some act of desperation posseses Terra to some extent (being partial or complete.) this brings us to next point....

Three...
The DS could be Xehanort (the one we know) and MX could be inside of him "asleep"...

Makes sense that he could give in to MX.

That sentence alone makes no sence... Did you not watch BBS...? Terra is pissed off at MX... I strongly doubt that Terra would give in to the person he hates most...

I like the idea of someone seeing their two best friends slaughtered, that breaking you, and then turning to darkness/MX.

Terra seems more like the type that would seek revenge, not submit to MX...

The Lingering Sentiment (Enigmatic Soldier) is the same as the armored youth in the movie, but when he fights Sora he mentions “Aqua” and “Ven”.
Translated as Lingering? That's interested. The Dead are often said to "linger", esp ghosts and such. Also who's to say the black hole you enter to fight "Terra" Isn't some wormhole in time? Just because we fight Terra does not indicate we fight terra in the present or, presently. NOT TO MENTION It's Disney Castle we're talking about, oh, the same place where we traveled in the past before? Coincidence?

Even so, the battle had to have been post-BBS... Due to Terra's mourning of Ven and Aqua and not to mention the mountians, which MX brought up... And that's only if that battle was Canon... There is a chance it couldn't be, but it is rather low...
If the battle is indeed canon, then the "Terra=Xehanort" theory is basically destroied...

7. Xemnas refering to aqua's armor as an old friend. Saying this is a "sarcastic" remark is a weak and lame justification. But that's just my opinion, so lets look at some facts:

Well, when listening to Xemnas say that again... It doesn't sound right... "My friend" seems stressed (IMO) or something...

Your a fool if your denying the similarity between Xemnas's Nobody Armor and the armor of Terra, Ven, and Aqua. First of all, THERE BOTH BIG BULKY ANTIQUE LOOKING ARMOR.

You must be blind...
The knights' armor are far smaller and more bendable...
Xemnas' armor, on the other hand, as massive... It would seem to be built for defence and adurence and lacks speed...
There are few similiarites, I'll give you that, but less then you are looking at...

Not to mention the presence of what appears to be a huge pointy DRAGON in the first secret video.

Hmm... Ever hear of a concept video...? Those "things" might not have actually been there... Or they might not have been a dragon at all...

9. Obscure, but Zexion saying Riku's scent reminded him of Xemnas. If Xemnas=Terra's nobody and Terra means earth and Riku means land.........

This seems a rather obvious answer... Through out Reverse/Rebirth, Riku had Xehanort's heartless inside of him... So, naturally, Zexion caught Ansem (H)'s smell, and since it is Xehanort's heartless, it would have the same smell as Xehanort's nobody, Xemnas...

10. A line from the BBS Trailer: After he rests his weapon into the ground, the two boys he was watching are clearer and they look like Sora and Riku. Soon after, Terra says "Please don't depend on me, just erase me... friend."

A line (most likly) inentionally similair to Xemnas's line to Aqua's Armor. I wonder if Terra was being Sarcastic then as well?

Well, in a recent update, it said Ven said that line (I think)...

 

[Axel Dog]

Three...
The DS could be Xehanort (the one we know) and MX could be inside of him "asleep"...

Yep, that's possible too but for the sake of arguement I was just doing those two.

That sentence alone makes no sence... Did you not watch BBS...? Terra is pissed off at MX... I strongly doubt that Terra would give in to the person he hates most...

Do you not think Riku hate's Xehanort's Heartless viddy viddy mucH? If not more than anyone in the whole world? Gosh, I think so.

Terra seems more like the type that would seek revenge, not submit to MX...

By his name and the fact that he is in "Riku's slot" it's not far fetched to think Terro would give in in to darkness. Im basing his submission to darkness on presdence, give me some evidence he's not the type don't just say he seems more then nothing to back it up. -_-

Even so, the battle had to have been post-BBS... Due to Terra's mourning of Ven and Aqua and not to mention the mountians, which MX brought up... And that's only if that battle was Canon... There is a chance it couldn't be, but it is rather low...
If the battle is indeed canon, then the "Terra=Xehanort" theory is basically destroied...

So, what you fight is the essence of Terra, his Sentiment, not even Terra himself. There are so many ways this can co-exist with him being Xehanort.

Well, when listening to Xemnas say that again... It doesn't sound right... "My friend" seems stressed (IMO) or something...

It's stressed because its important (if at all). Xemnas doesn't make sarcastic remarks. Al the time he addresses Sora and co. "Hereos from the Realm of Light....." " Denizens of light ....." Very formal. Hey never calls Sora and co OR AtW a friend. so again, based on presidence, i don't buy it.

You must be blind...
The knights' armor are far smaller and more bendable...
Xemnas' armor, on the other hand, as massive... It would seem to be built for defence and adurence and lacks speed...
There are few similiarites, I'll give you that, but less then you are looking at...

lol, size, and...bendability. Ok, so there "bendability" might be a little different but I guess your just saying its a coincidence, all that time spent beneath hollow bastion with aqua's armor and then he busts out with armor. Again, REGARDLESS of stylsticlly similair or UNsimilair you think it is, THE fact that they are both large bulky antique armour is connection enough. (even though I happen to think they are VERY similair....and nomura says himself that the relation is important.) ((OBVIOUSLY))

Hmm... Ever hear of a concept video...? Those "things" might not have actually been there... Or they might not have been a dragon at all...

Lol, yeah or BBS the secret vid could've never happened it all could've been a dream. Nothing is certain. So if that's your point AGREED but based on what we have we're making guesses. THis is the basis of.....theorizing?

This seems a rather obvious answer... Through out Reverse/Rebirth, Riku had Xehanort's heartless inside of him... So, naturally, Zexion caught Ansem (H)'s smell, and since it is Xehanort's heartless, it would have the same smell as Xehanort's nobody, Xemnas...

True, i forgot that, valid point.

Well, in a recent update, it said Ven said that line (I think)...

I'm not sure about that but the line is played in the trailer directly after Terra watches kids who look like Sora and Riku on the beach so i'd think not likly.

 

[Wehrmacht]

Comes with having tits. :'p
Just like Goofy can't be Terra
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/Sorade/SaixFace.png Check again. Orange.

Fine.

Based on that logic, heartless arn't darkness.

They're not.

A girl can cause a man to get AIDS, but is it the girl that killed him, or the AIDS? With your logic, we should kill the girl for giving it to him instead of finding a cure for the virus.

Logic failed.

Caused by hearts, but wasn't hearts.

Yes it was.

I'll be waiting for those.

Good.

Exactly. So point is, that the battle was added in for fun.

Adding the battle period was enough for replay value. Hell, fm+ without it has a high replay value.
If it's canon, and they wanted to add it as present, then they would of put it in first time you play.
But, if it's canon, and they wanted you to fight him after xemmy, then you can't add it in after the battle because of that ending, so no matter what, it would have to happen before at some time. So, they make you play it, beat xemmy, then add it in afterwards.

The fact that it was added for fun, after you beat Xemnas, does not mean it is after Xemnas. Your logic is flawed.

Facts are: if the battle is canon, it's during Sora's quest. End of story.

Yet his heartless was "ded" after KH2, so he could of went after it then.

Why bother? His KH was nearly complete anyway.

If he wanted power, he would go after it. Yet the one he makes is weaker than the original. If you want power, you want the best. Not a cheap knock off.

Pfff. Two different ways to the same thing.

Yes, it seems a heart and soul can change your sex. If that's the case, I expect Axel's somebody to be female. >>;

Naminé is the only exception.

That was my explanation, but the game does not say this about KH. Therefore, plothole.

No, it's a logical assumption that can be made. Not plot hole.

Pfft Axel? Computer smart? Puh-leaze. He'd get pissed and roast the damn computer before trying to hack it. But anyway, plot hole.

You're forgetting Axel isn't the only member of the Organization. Xemnas and the others could have easily hacked into the computer. Not plot hole.


How is it not?

Its still a hole to have fake creatures with symbols, and naturals have no symbol, and then in the next game, have naturals with symbols.
Unless of course, they are NOT naturals, and future games reveal this. But since current games say nothing, it's a plot hole.

Um, see, here's the thing: there is no such thing as an "artificial" nobody, so what do you expect? Not plot hole, accept it, move on with your life.

Does the game say this?

Does it need to?

Yes, because we have interpret it as such. The game does not say which is right though.

Once again: does it need to?

I have yet to see this who this works.

Do you need to?

That basically was my explination cept that Roxas has them because his somebody remembers them.
But still, not said in the game or inteviews. Plot hole

Your problem here is: just because the game does not give an explanation for "x", and there is a logical explanation for it, does not mean it is a plot hole. We don't have to be spoon-fed information.

Also, it got me really pissed, so I'll say it again: your logic is flawed. The fact that we get it after Xemnas does mean it is after Xemnas. Xemnas is still around when we go to fight Terra.

If you can't accept that, it's not even worth discussing anything you.

...Confused? :/

Yes.

So your agreeing that appearance works? And, you DO know I don't disagree with your ideas completely, I just add Terra into the mix is all. Still plausible. And I want more than a "No it isn't" answer. Explain your reasons ho.

In due time.

The theory I have, is a friendly connection. The theory you have, is un-friendly.
As I've said before, Aqua's nobody being the 14th member hints at a friendly connection. If she is that is.

Still connection. See, I have just as much as you do. More, actually. You have appearance. I have appearance. You have the connections. I have the connections. You have the rage. I also have the rage. You have the attacks. But I have the guardian connection, and I have personality and behavior. So who's got more?

 

[√]

DS could be Xehanort(Ansem's apprentice).
DS took his master's name cause he's the only thing he can remember.
DS likes taking his masters name like Ansem.

I will believe in this theory till it's confirmed that i am wrong or not.
lawl.

 

[Endgame]

You're all wrong. The DS is, in fact, three moogles in a disguise. At 3.32, in the secret movie, you can totally see their pom-poms over MX's left shoulder. This hints that the next game is going to be about Moogle-Heartless half-breeds, who this time synthasize items for the bad guys instead of you, leaving you stuck with that good-for-nothing kingdom key for the whole game, and a whole heap of useless items.

 

[Ultima Fenrir]

Keybearer has a good point. I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday that the DS could be an apprentice and take a name of his master, just as Xehanort did with Ansem the Wise. What if the the birth by sleep video took place say 10 years before the events of KH and the DS at that time is between the age of sora and riku when they are in KH or KHII. THe only other thing I can think of is that Master Xehanort is powerful enough to separate his body from his heartless without creating a nobody, and this heartless is the DS.

 

[Axel Dog]

Still connection. See, I have just as much as you do. More, actually. You have appearance. I have appearance. You have the connections. I have the connections. You have the rage. I also have the rage. You have the attacks. But I have the guardian connection, and I have personality and behavior. So who's got more?

In terms of behavior, a part of behavior is mannerism. MX, like i Said, is hunched and callous, his neck craned a crooked. Xemnas/Ansem(H)/Xehanort are all very poised, dignified, with posture much more befiting of a knight.

Also in terms of Terra's eyes turning, Riku had to call upon the power of Darkness when facing Eminent Defeat in order to help his friends. Opening his heart to darkness. With MX so obviously more powerful than Terra, Aqua, or Ven.... and with Terra's Riku Connection... I find it easy to think that in this moment he is calling upon darkness to aid his friends/opening his heart to dark/MX.

Point is Terra=Xehanort IS a plausible theory. On the leve of anything we have right now, including Xehanort=MX, Xehanort=DS. Deal with it.

 

[Wehrmacht]

In terms of behavior, a part of behavior is mannerism. MX, like i Said, is hunched and callous, his neck craned a crooked. Xemnas/Ansem(H)/Xehanort are all very poised, dignified, with posture much more befiting of a knight.

You do, of course, realize that Terra is not actually a knight. We just call him that for lack of a better term. Terra is not the least bit poised or dignified. MX is also hunched over because he's old. And his arms behind his back=scientist stereotype. Guess who was also a scientist?

Also in terms of Terra's eyes turning, Riku had to call upon the power of Darkness when facing Eminent Defeat in order to help his friends. Opening his heart to darkness. With MX so obviously more powerful than Terra, Aqua, or Ven.... and with Terra's Riku Connection... I find it easy to think that in this moment he is calling upon darkness to aid his friends/opening his heart to dark/MX.

Just one problem: Terra's eyes turn YELLOW. MX=orange eyes.

Nu-uh. If it IS canon, and it IS present, then it still works. Nomura had said if we defeated the heartless and nobody the person turns back into thier original form. According to this theory, the original is Terra, and MX either still lingers in his heart, or also seperated.

Like I said: it's before Xemnas. If you cannot accept this, then there is no point to this discussion, as your defense is an argument from ignorance.

If it is in the past and canon, it could be possible that MX IS in Terra and is losing his memories at that point therefore, he doesn't remember MX entering him, but remembers what he did. For now anyway.

Hah! I just thought of something to counter this. If it's so soon after BBS, why isn't Terra's armor all beat up, hmmm?

Point is Terra=Xehanort IS a plausible theory. On the leve of anything we have right now, including Xehanort=MX, Xehanort=DS. Deal with it.

Far less so.

 

[Ultima Fenrir]

HadesDragon, that is a very good observation about the scientist stereotype. That could easily be a parallel that Nomura would put in as a subtle hint.

 

[Wehrmacht]

So, what you fight is the essence of Terra, his Sentiment, not even Terra himself.

Oh, and when was this confirmed? Hmmm? You are also, of course, aware that just because he is reffered as a Sentiment in JJ, does not actually mean he's not there in flesh and blood. Metaphors, poetic description.

There are so many ways this can co-exist with him being Xehanort.

No, there are not.

 

[Axel Dog]

HadesDragon, that is a very good observation about the scientist stereotype. That could easily be a parallel that Nomura would put in as a subtle hint.

The scientist Stereotype is the most OBVIOUS thing in the entire video. If anything is likly to be a DiZ Red Harring, it's this. YeahSubtle?no.

You do, of course, realize that Terra is not actually a knight. We just call him that for lack of a better term. Terra is not the least bit poised or dignified. MX is also hunched over because he's old. And his arms behind his back=scientist stereotype. Guess who was also a scientist?

Actually before Nomura confirmed his name, he's straight up Translated from Final Mix+ as The Enigmatic Soldier or The Enigmatic Knight. LOL @ "Terra is not the least bit poised or dignified". If you want to talk stereotypes, there is a HUGE stereotype amoung people clad in armor as having Dignity and Poise, kinda like when you walk in on Terra and he's kneeling with is keyblade a very "knightly" or dignified pose. Good try though.

Just one problem: Terra's eyes turn YELLOW. MX=orange eyes.

The shot also Cuts away. Who's to say if his eyes weren't turning from Blue-To Yellow-To Oranage? Easy.

Far less so.

See here's where your wrong. You yourself said that the arguement were equal up untill two points: Behavior and Personality. I challenegd Behavior so really your theory only has ONE point up on this one. So that's about 11 points for Terra=Xehanort and 12 he=DS. I don't think one or even two points is 'Far Less So". Try not to be so stubborn and think more with an open mind, neh?