I wonder why DS's face hasn't been reveiled yet unlike the others...

[Wehrmacht]

Actually before Nomura confirmed his name, he's straight up Translated from Final Mix+ as The Enigmatic Soldier or The Enigmatic Knight.

That's Shonen Jump's nickname for him. It's not official. No in-game source refers to them as knights. So, lack of a better term there too.

In the JJ, he is called Todomarishi Shinen: Lingering Thought/Feeling/Sentiment. That was his only official name until Terra.

Also, using his name as proof that it's not really Terra is another argument from ignorance, as it refers to his lingering hatred of MX, not that he's literally an incorporeal, non-whole being of any kind.

Furthermore, if this battle is canon, and it probably is, the portal MUST apear during Sora's quest. Not afterwards. It is canon that after Riku and Sora defeat Xemnas, they are sent to DI. So Terra's battle must take place before this. If we were sent to the battle after the credits, after Xemnas, THEN THAT would be another story.

VAT's reasoning, ultimately, fails.

LOL @ "Terra is not the least bit poised or dignified". If you want to talk stereotypes, there is a HUGE stereotype amoung people clad in armor as having Dignity and Poise, kinda like when you walk in on Terra and he's kneeling with is keyblade a very "knightly" or dignified pose. Good try though.

Look at his other traits. He rushes straight into MX. He's brutish, rushes straight into things. Xehanort and his forms are not like that. Go read the similarities list again.

The shot also Cuts away. Who's to say if his eyes weren't turning from Blue-To Yellow-To Oranage? Easy.

Well, we cannot be sure either way.

See here's where your wrong. You yourself said that the arguement were equal up untill two points: Behavior and Personality. I challenegd Behavior so really your theory only has ONE point up on this one.

Not really. Your behavior point failed.

So that's about 11 points for Terra=Xehanort and 12 he=DS. I don't think one or even two points is 'Far Less So". Try not to be so stubborn and think more with an open mind, neh?

We have a right to believe whatever we want. We can contest this theory as much as we want. There's far more evidence hinting that he's not Terra than there is hinting at such. Or it's about 50/50, just slightly less.

Could it be possible? Sure, I guess. It'd create more holes, but who cares about plot consistency? KH already has one or two anyway.

 

[Axel Dog]

The Many Ways to Explain how you can fight Terra, and he can still be Xehanort.

1. His In game given name.-- The translation of the name given is even 'lingering sentiment'. If you don't believe it look it up. Now for the Definition of Sentiment from Dictionary.com

–noun
1.
an attitude toward something; regard; opinion.
2.
a mental feeling; emotion: a sentiment of pity.
3.
refined or tender emotion; manifestation of the higher or more refined feelings.
4.
exhibition or manifestation of feeling or sensibility, or appeal to the tender emotions, in literature, art, or music.
5.
a thought influenced by or proceeding from feeling or emotion.
6.
the thought or feeling intended to be conveyed by words, acts, or gestures as distinguished from the words, acts, or gestures themselves.

So, according to the GAME he's nothing but a lingering emotion, a fleeting feeling, almost as if whatever happened in the desert that night, left an imprint on the area. This lingering Senitment is that imprint.

Regardless, although it IS the Lingering Sentiment OF terra, it is FAR from a coherent and TRUE manifestation of terra. Even his thoughts are scattered and incoherent.



2. The fight takes place Inside Disney Castle. Disney Castle, the same world where in KHII you travel to the past, to Timeless River. Coincidence im thinkin' no.


3. The Unrealistic tone to the whole thing. I highly doubt the real Terra is still alive, and if he IS he's just what.....hanging out in the middle of the desert? Just Kneelin' there, waiting around? DOing whatever? Don't buy it. It's much more likly that what you fight is a fragment of him. Maybe a Sentiment of Terra lingers in his ARMOR, and when you fight is simply that.

4. Take the other Secret Bosses in Final Mix+. The DATA forms of all the org members? Clearly is very easy and plausible based on precedence to see how you can fight people who are dead and gone.

5. Lingering Sentiment's voice. Of course his vocal quality is for effect, but as this is kh we are talking about, nomura most likly has some meaning hidden in it as well.


6. It seems like BBS takes place in the "Distant Past". I believe this has been confirmed. And YES MICKEY MOUSE could be that old. Do you have any idea how long ago Timeless River was? Mickey's Age is anyone's guess, but he obviously doesn't have the same lifespan as a human nor does he abide by those same laws beging as he's from a disney world. Mickey Mouse Could be, for all intents and purposes and as is river suggests, Timeless.


7. Aqua.... Ven....
Keyblade.....Who are you?
I Can Feel it... we have met before.
It was when before...
No...it isn't you...
It isn't you that I have chosen....
Why is it not him?
Xe....Ha....Nort
Is that you?
Xeha...Nort....
Xehanort!

So in terms of Terra watching Sora and Riku on the beach I believe this explains it. Birth by Sleep probably goes down a very, very long time ago...but for whatever reason it feel on Terra's shoulders to choose the next keyblade master...thus he is shown his two candidates. And he chooses Riku. Thus making sense with "No...it isn't you...." " It Isn't you that I have chosen" "Why is it not him?"

So if you buy that, then in terms of timeline it's very unlikly Terra is still around.


8. Even if you don't buy the timeline fine, take Birth By Sleep. Xehanort is so vastly overpowered in Birth By Sleep, it's very unlikely any of Terra, Ven (esp ven) or Aqua came out of that fight alive. I mean, just look what he did to Ven without even straining himself.


9. Not to mention all the ways its possible that the fight with terra was surreal, symbolic, and taking place in a place outside of reality. And not being in reality, you don't *realy* fight him. Just his Sentiment.

Look at his other traits. He rushes straight into MX. He's brutish, rushes straight into things. Xehanort and his forms are not like that. Go read the similarities list again.

Knights are often stereotyped to being Brutish and headstrong. He can be passionate and headstrong AND STILL be noble, dignifiied. Anway much more so than crane necked Psychopath that is MX. Point Unfailed.

 

[Wehrmacht]

The Many Ways to Explain how you can fight Terra, and he can still be Xehanort.

1. His In game given name.-- The translation of the name given is even 'lingering sentiment'. If you don't believe it look it up. Now for the Definition of Sentiment from Dictionary.com

–noun
1.
an attitude toward something; regard; opinion.
2.
a mental feeling; emotion: a sentiment of pity.
3.
refined or tender emotion; manifestation of the higher or more refined feelings.
4.
exhibition or manifestation of feeling or sensibility, or appeal to the tender emotions, in literature, art, or music.
5.
a thought influenced by or proceeding from feeling or emotion.
6.
the thought or feeling intended to be conveyed by words, acts, or gestures as distinguished from the words, acts, or gestures themselves.

So, according to the GAME he's nothing but a lingering emotion, a fleeting feeling, almost as if whatever happened in the desert that night, left an imprint on the area. This lingering Senitment is that imprint.

Regardless, although it IS the Lingering Sentiment OF terra, it is FAR from a coherent and TRUE manifestation of terra. Even his thoughts are scattered and incoherent.

It could also be a poetic description. A metaphor describing his state of mind. The journal refers to him as a mysteryous man in the description. So it means squat. Learn not to take things too literally. This is just like thinking that just because Way to Dawn was in Gathering, then it must have actually been there, even though it was gone in BBS.

2. The fight takes place Inside Disney Castle. Disney Castle, the same world where in KHII you travel to the past, to Timeless River. Coincidence im thinkin' no.

It could be. There was nothing else to do in Disney Castle at endgame anyway. No heartless, no minigames. Timeless River is separate. So in goes Terra.

Also, it might be another thing hinting at a connecton to Mickey. Which obviously exists.

3. The Unrealistic tone to the whole thing. I highly doubt the real Terra is still alive, and if he IS he's just what.....hanging out in the middle of the desert? Just Kneelin' there, waiting around? DOing whatever? Don't buy it. It's much more likly that what you fight is a fragment of him. Maybe a Sentiment of Terra lingers in his ARMOR, and when you fight is simply that.

Um, that's just you. It could easily be the real Terra. He might just stay there moping. It's a thing people in pain do often.

He could just go back home, sleep, then go there to mope again. It's a common behavior of people who have lost everything, who are in pain. Very realistic. But even so, videogames only have to be realistic to a degree anyway, so it matters very little.

4. Take the other Secret Bosses in Final Mix+. The DATA forms of all the org members? Clearly is very easy and plausible based on precedence to see how you can fight people who are dead and gone.

Different case. The Xemnas battle in KH1FM was canon, wasn't it? Also, the data Organization battles, yes, those are most likely not canon. But Terra is different.

5. Lingering Sentiment's voice. Of course his vocal quality is for effect, but as this is kh we are talking about, nomura most likly has some meaning hidden in it as well.

Sound effect. Probably not his real voice anyway. For all we know it's a disguise to shroud his real voice, so as to make him more mysteryous. Once again, do not take things too literally.

6. It seems like BBS takes place in the "Distant Past". I believe this has been confirmed. And YES MICKEY MOUSE could be that old. Do you have any idea how long ago Timeless River was? Mickey's Age is anyone's guess, but he obviously doesn't have the same lifespan as a human nor does he abide by those same laws beging as he's from a disney world. Mickey Mouse Could be, for all intents and purposes and as is river suggests, Timeless.

No, Mickey's not that old. And no, he'd have to die eventually. Everyone in KH does. He can't be immortal. Timeless River is probably, oh, about 20 years before KH1 I'd say. A few years before BBS. Or, Mickey might not actually be king yet in BBS. We don't know how long he's been a king...

It cannot be more than 10+ years in the past, as the knights all know Xehanort...and he's not that old. He couldn't have stayed as an apprentice for AtW for too long. Hollow Bastion was invaded by Maleficent nine years before KH1.

7. Aqua.... Ven....
Keyblade.....Who are you?
I Can Feel it... we have met before.
It was when before...
No...it isn't you...
It isn't you that I have chosen....
Why is it not him?
Xe....Ha....Nort
Is that you?
Xeha...Nort....
Xehanort!

So in terms of Terra watching Sora and Riku on the beach I believe this explains it. Birth by Sleep probably goes down a very, very long time ago...but for whatever reason it feel on Terra's shoulders to choose the next keyblade master...thus he is shown his two candidates. And he chooses Riku. Thus making sense with "No...it isn't you...." " It Isn't you that I have chosen" "Why is it not him?"

So if you buy that, then in terms of timeline it's very unlikly Terra is still around.

Oh? He might have thought the keyblade was with Riku. When he saw it was not with Sora, he reacted in that manner. What does this have to do with anything?

BBS is not that far back. It simply can't be.

8. Even if you don't buy the timeline fine, take Birth By Sleep. Xehanort is so vastly overpowered in Birth By Sleep, it's very unlikely any of Terra, Ven (esp ven) or Aqua came out of that fight alive. I mean, just look what he did to Ven without even straining himself.

So? Even if he died, that disproves the Terra=Xehanort theory. Omni already touched upon the subject.

9. Not to mention all the ways its possible that the fight with terra was surreal, symbolic, and taking place in a place outside of reality. And not being in reality, you don't *realy* fight him. Just his Sentiment.

Another argument from ignorance. Metaphorical descriptions, videogames only have to follow real life to a certain degree.

Knights are often stereotyped to being Brutish and headstrong. He can be passionate and headstrong AND STILL be noble, dignifiied. Anway much more so than crane necked Psychopath that is MX. Point Unfailed.

Still, MX and Xehanort are much more alike anyway. And Terra's not even a real knight, as I proved up there.

How do you even know a feeling can just go waltzing into an armor anyway? Makes no sense to me.

 

[kiante]

Okay, I'm just gonna say, I think the DS is probably something like the Guardian "Ansem" had in KH1, it does have the Heartless Emblem after all. So most likely, it IS a heartless. And since it split off of MX, then it might just be like his guardian. Part of him.

 

[Ultima Fenrir]

I said basically the same thing about the DS being Master Xehanort's heartless in post #95

 

[kiante]

Oh, kewl. Sorry, I didn't really feel like reading those 3 pages of posts.

 

[Axel Dog]

It could also be a poetic description. A metaphor describing his state of mind. The journal refers to him as a mysteryous man in the description. So it means squat. Learn not to take things too literally. This is just like thinking that just because Way to Dawn was in Gathering, then it must have actually been there, even though it was gone in BBS.

Yes that's possible. However you could say that, about, ANYTHING. Maybe Jimminy Cricket's new found BEARD is a metaphor and its not actually there. MAYBE. but its MORE likly to assume its not a metaphor, that he's called what he's called for a reason. And in KH1 Xemnas was just ENigmatic Man. Nothing lingering or sentiment about him.

Um, that's just you. It could easily be the real Terra. He might just stay there moping. It's a thing people in pain do often.

He could just go back home, sleep, then go there to mope again. It's a common behavior of people who have lost everything, who are in pain. Very realistic. But even so, videogames only have to be realistic to a degree anyway, so it matters very little.

Yeah for like 10 years he just mops around in the desert. very realstic. -_-

Different case. The Xemnas battle in KH1FM was canon, wasn't it? Also, the data Organization battles, yes, those are most likely not canon. But Terra is different.

Not saying terra isn't different, he's obviously not Data. The point is that there's presedence here of fighting NON PHYSICAL forms of things that are not present.

Sound effect. Probably not his real voice anyway. For all we know it's a disguise to shroud his real voice, so as to make him more mysteryous. Once again, do not take things too literally.

Sorry pal, but you can't pick and choose what's meaningful and what isn't. If you take that attitude then Oh MX is just dressed like that just for visual effect and oh the dark soldier just looks like that for visual effect and oh ven just looks like roxas for visual effect, no meaning. There obviously IS meaing, just like there obviously is meaing behind why Terra's voice is like that. It's not being literal, its actually quite the opposite... i'm recognizing there's more behind that than just "sound effect". Yours is a much more literal interpretation.

No, Mickey's not that old. And no, he'd have to die eventually. Everyone in KH does. He can't be immortal. Timeless River is probably, oh, about 20 years before KH1 I'd say. A few years before BBS. Or, Mickey might not actually be king yet in BBS. We don't know how long he's been a king...

Ok, so its not likly that Mickey is immortal. However I think it is likly that age plays by different rules in different worlds. Just like Sora, Donald, and Goofy couldn't get the curse in the Pirates World. Every world has it's own set of rules, and you most likly abide by the world in which you originate from.

It cannot be more than 10+ years in the past, as the knights all know Xehanort...and he's not that old. He couldn't have stayed as an apprentice for AtW for too long. Hollow Bastion was invaded by Maleficent nine years before KH1.

Do you think Nobody's Age? Do you think Heartless age?

Oh? He might have thought the keyblade was with Riku. When he saw it was not with Sora, he reacted in that manner. What does this have to do with anything?

It shows that Terra chose Riku thus explaing why he was shown the two boys on the beach, making it possible for BBS to take place further back in time.

BBS is not that far back. It simply can't be.

How about I straight-jack you here and simply say "Yeah, it can."

So? Even if he died, that disproves the Terra=Xehanort theory. Omni already touched upon the subject.

Not neccesarily death, but something of MX choosing, to be sure.

Another argument from ignorance. Metaphorical descriptions, videogames only have to follow real life to a certain degree.

that's arguement is a cop out. We can only make guesses based on two things, life presented to us in Kingdom Hearts and life as we know it. If no rules or things carryover between the two than what the hell is the point of theorizing at all.

Still, MX and Xehanort are much more alike anyway. And Terra's not even a real knight, as I proved up there.

And i could say MX is not a "real" Scientist. wtf are you talking about, not a real knight? Not a knight by Goofy's standards? by king mickey's? By yours? he's more a KNIGHT in the KH universe than goofy, who's titled a royal Knight. So for all KH's Interents and purposes, he's a knight.

How do you even know a feeling can just go waltzing into an armor anyway? Makes no sense to me.

Love how you contradict yourself here. You say don't be literal than ask how a feeling can wear armor. I think it's completely plausable in the KH universe and such a STRONG and DEEP feeling of hatred Could linger, and even manifest in a SEMI-physical presnce. Even fight, talk and wear armor. Go ask Ansem how People without hearts can walk and talk and move around while your at it.

 

[Kairiangel]

Maybe he looks alot like Sora, Riku or Kairi u know their farther or brother something like that (it could be Sora thats why Terra in KH2+FM attacked him calling him Xhaenort!):thumbup: good theorie yeah?

 

[Wehrmacht]

Yes that's possible. However you could say that, about, ANYTHING. Maybe Jimminy Cricket's new found BEARD is a metaphor and its not actually there. MAYBE. but its MORE likly to assume its not a metaphor, that he's called what he's called for a reason. And in KH1 Xemnas was just ENigmatic Man. Nothing lingering or sentiment about him.

So? The fact that it could be a metaphor, a poetic description. The name is most certainly not most likely to not be a metaphor. You don't know that. He could still be called that for a reason, because it's a metaphor. It refers to his hatred of Xehanort. What more do you need?

Yeah for like 10 years he just mops around in the desert. very realstic. -_-

Sure, it could happen. And the fact that videogames don't always have to abide by the laws of reality still stands.

Not saying terra isn't different, he's obviously not Data. The point is that there's presedence here of fighting NON PHYSICAL forms of things that are not present.

Yeah, but the difference is: data battles simply can't be canon. Terra, on the other hand, can be.

Sorry pal, but you can't pick and choose what's meaningful and what isn't. If you take that attitude then Oh MX is just dressed like that just for visual effect and oh the dark soldier just looks like that for visual effect and oh ven just looks like roxas for visual effect, no meaning. There obviously IS meaing, just like there obviously is meaing behind why Terra's voice is like that. It's not being literal, its actually quite the opposite... i'm recognizing there's more behind that than just "sound effect". Yours is a much more literal interpretation.

Yeah, it's a problem you and VAT have: you think there has to be some deep meaning behind every freaking thing in the game. Even when there are logical explanations for said things.

Even if his voice is like that, perhaps it's because the armor is muffling it. So, um...

Ok, so its not likly that Mickey is immortal. However I think it is likly that age plays by different rules in different worlds. Just like Sora, Donald, and Goofy couldn't get the curse in the Pirates World. Every world has it's own set of rules, and you most likly abide by the world in which you originate from.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Do you think Nobody's Age? Do you think Heartless age?

Xehanort was not a nobody. I don't see where this is coming from.

It shows that Terra chose Riku thus explaing why he was shown the two boys on the beach, making it possible for BBS to take place further back in time.

I don't see the logic behind this. Even more so, it proves that it can't be that far back, because Riku and Sora are born. If it was that far back, they wouldn't even be born yet.

How about I straight-jack you here and simply say "Yeah, it can."

Um, no.

Not neccesarily death, but something of MX choosing, to be sure.

The possession theory still fails.

that's arguement is a cop out. We can only make guesses based on two things, life presented to us in Kingdom Hearts and life as we know it. If no rules or things carryover between the two than what the hell is the point of theorizing at all.

No it's not. KH is a damned videogame. Things there are obviously different.

And i could say MX is not a "real" Scientist. wtf are you talking about, not a real knight? Not a knight by Goofy's standards? by king mickey's? By yours? he's more a KNIGHT in the KH universe than goofy, who's titled a royal Knight. So for all KH's Interents and purposes, he's a knight.

No. He's just a soldier. A keyblade master. Not everyone who wears armor is a knight. Also, your knight connection with Xemnas fails. Because the two armors are very different in design.

And Xemnas sits on a throne. Who sits on thrones? Kings. As in, king of nobodies. Not knight. Also, the fact that MX has bad posture is due to the fact that he is, well, an old man. If he was young, who is to say he would not take a different stance?

Love how you contradict yourself here. You say don't be literal than ask how a feeling can wear armor. I think it's completely plausable in the KH universe and such a STRONG and DEEP feeling of hatred Could linger, and even manifest in a SEMI-physical presnce..

Well, I don't. Also, it's spelled "plausible". Just so you know. And what would make you think Terra is there in a SEMI-physical presence? I see nothing to suggest he isn't there in flesh and blood.

In summary: Terra theory COULD, POSSIBLY, be true. But don't expect not to question it. Are you satisfied now?

 

[Axel Dog]

So? The fact that it could be a metaphor, a poetic description. The name is most certainly not most likely to not be a metaphor. You don't know that. He could still be called that for a reason, because it's a metaphor. It refers to his hatred of Xehanort. What more do you need?

I like how you say you see no evidence that he's not there in FLESH and BLOOD, and then you say there's nothing there to suggest its NOT a metaphor. So which is it, we should ASSUME that he is there in flesh and blood but his name is simply poetic? Here's your own arguement back at you: I see nothing to suggest his physical pressence isn't poetic. His mere being is a metaphor, he's not REALLY there, "it's a damn videogame its possible". Please. I can't even tell you how lame that is. Your like a broken record, stubborn and ignorant you refuse to accept other theories. Why do other theories have to fail because you don't agree with them? It just makes you look like a moron. A very obnoxious one, "just so you know."

Sure, it could happen. And the fact that videogames don't always have to abide by the laws of reality still stands.

Of course they don't. But they obviously borrow a lot of the same rules we happen to have here in reality. KH is it's own universe but that doesn't mean you can't use realistic examples to make points.

Yeah, it's a problem you and VAT have: you think there has to be some deep meaning behind every freaking thing in the game. Even when there are logical explanations for said things.

Doesn't have to be a deep meaning, but yeah, Kingdom Hearts is such a game that there is mystery everywhere, any little thing could potential have meaning. Who knows the depth to the meaning but that's why we're theorizing. And yes especially when it comes to the fight and the secret video, every litte thing IS valid for scrutinizing. You underestimate Kingdom Hearts as a series and Nomura if you think it's not. Logic is only half, intuition and imagination and guesswork are the other half here.

Even if his voice is like that, perhaps it's because the armor is muffling it. So, um...

Yeah and maybe MX and Ansem(H) just shop from the same tailor. Maybe DS and Riku just have the same sense of style. If that's your logic, save it. It's not flying.

I don't see the logic behind this. Even more so, it proves that it can't be that far back, because Riku and Sora are born. If it was that far back, they wouldn't even be born yet.

You think that just beacuse he sees them that they have to be born? Maybe he's shown something from the future. I don't think the keyblade goes from master to master forcibly, I.E If the current Keyblade Master(s) die, where does it go? It probobly has a place of Dormancy in lies in wait for the next keyblade master. But at some point Terra maybe had to select Sora or Riku, i.e shown a glimpse of them from the future. Like the keyblade saying to you "OK 100 years from now one of these two boys must wield me... but which one?"

The possession theory still fails.

No, it really, seriously, seriously doesn't. Your really obnoxious about this. No one is saying your theory's fail. Do us the same common courtesy, don't be an @$$.

No it's not. KH is a damned videogame. Things there are obviously different.

Yep, it is. Theres the KH universe, then there's our universe, reality. There are a lot of differences, and a lot of similairites between them. I thought we established this, do you not get?

No. He's just a soldier. A keyblade master. Not everyone who wears armor is a knight. Also, your knight connection with Xemnas fails. Because the two armors are very different in design.

Very similair design. Both designed by Nomura who said in an inerview, when asked, that he cannot comment on this connection but he acknowledged the connection.

FROM THE SECRET DIRECTORS REPORT FROM FINAL MIX+

XII - Of the people that appear in the new secret movie "Birth By Sleep" that was added to KHII:FM, several names and figures are recognizable and must be extremely meaningful. Giving specifics is likely impossible, but could you give us a hint? Furthermore, do the 3 armored figures that appear there and the similar looking armored figure in the Last Battle have some relation to Xemnas?

"For the recognizable figures and the recognizable faces, reaching the secret this time is extremely difficult, but I think the video is fairly spectacular and will stir you imaginations. The armored figures have a connection to Xemnas but after all I can't give any specifics at the present stage. But, the video this time has a foreboding opening and please think of the figures ahead as having reason and a hinting connection."


So the interviewer obviously thought there was a pretty obvious connection here. Keep denying it though. It's only gettin funny.

And Xemnas sits on a throne. Who sits on thrones? Kings. As in, king of nobodies. Not knight. Also, the fact that MX has bad posture is due to the fact that he is, well, an old man. If he was young, who is to say he would not take a different stance?

Vexen is pretty old, but he doesn't have the crazy psychopath posture. I mean he does his little eyeball thing, but thats it. Maybe he would have a different stance younger but neither you or I can say so that's neither here nor there. All we can say is based on what we have to see and what you see is a old man with crazy crooked posture, that he could have had his WHOLE life or maybe not. But he's got it now, that's for sure.

Well, I don't. Also, it's spelled "plausible". Just so you know. And what would make you think Terra is there in a SEMI-physical presence? I see nothing to suggest he isn't there in flesh and blood.

Other than his name/title, which metaphor or NOT is very suggestive of NOT being flesh and blood. Also other than him babbling almost incoherently. Also other than him mistaking Sora for Xehanort. These things don't really point to your everyday flesh and blood Terra. NOT to mention the fight you go through a large black portal to get it him. Also sugestive that your not fighting on a PLANE of reality, but a different plane.


Look your obviously too immature to recognize alternate valid theories, and honestly your obnoxious ignorance is just getting on my nerves. Just so your aware of how your comments play up to people.

 

[Wehrmacht]

I like how you say you see no evidence that he's not there in FLESH and BLOOD, and then you say there's nothing there to suggest its NOT a metaphor. So which is it, we should ASSUME that he is there in flesh and blood but his name is simply poetic? Here's your own arguement back at you: I see nothing to suggest his physical pressence isn't poetic. His mere being is a metaphor, he's not REALLY there,

No. See, I meant his NAME in the JJ is a metaphor. His existence there, not.

"it's a damn videogame its possible". Please. I can't even tell you how lame that is.

Um, no.

Your like a broken record, stubborn and ignorant you refuse to accept other theories. Why do other theories have to fail because you don't agree with them? It just makes you look like a moron. A very obnoxious one, "just so you know."

Um, no, I do agree it's possible. I'm just contesting it.

Of course they don't. But they obviously borrow a lot of the same rules we happen to have here in reality. KH is it's own universe but that doesn't mean you can't use realistic examples to make points.

Only to a certain extent.

Doesn't have to be a deep meaning, but yeah, Kingdom Hearts is such a game that there is mystery everywhere, any little thing could potential have meaning. Who knows the depth to the meaning but that's why we're theorizing. And yes especially when it comes to the fight and the secret video, every litte thing IS valid for scrutinizing.

Or so you think.

You underestimate Kingdom Hearts as a series and Nomura if you think it's not.

It would seem you OVERestimate him.

Yeah and maybe MX and Ansem(H) just shop from the same tailor. Maybe DS and Riku just have the same sense of style. If that's your logic, save it. It's not flying.

Pfff, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

You think that just beacuse he sees them that they have to be born? Maybe he's shown something from the future.

Let's wait for the trailer first.

I don't think the keyblade goes from master to master forcibly, I.E If the current Keyblade Master(s) die, where does it go? It probobly has a place of Dormancy in lies in wait for the next keyblade master. But at some point Terra maybe had to select Sora or Riku, i.e shown a glimpse of them from the future. Like the keyblade saying to you "OK 100 years from now one of these two boys must wield me... but which one?"

Possibly. But we don't know yet.

No, it really, seriously, seriously doesn't. Your really obnoxious about this. No one is saying your theory's fail. Do us the same common courtesy, don't be an @$$.

Meh, fine, I do realize I sound like an ass sometimes in the KH sections anyway.

Yep, it is. Theres the KH universe, then there's our universe, reality. There are a lot of differences, and a lot of similairites between them. I thought we established this, do you not get?

Yes, but the lot of differences part, you seem to not get.

Very similair design.

No.

Both designed by Nomura who said in an inerview, when asked, that he cannot comment on this connection but he acknowledged the connection.

FROM THE SECRET DIRECTORS REPORT FROM FINAL MIX+

XII - Of the people that appear in the new secret movie "Birth By Sleep" that was added to KHII:FM, several names and figures are recognizable and must be extremely meaningful. Giving specifics is likely impossible, but could you give us a hint? Furthermore, do the 3 armored figures that appear there and the similar looking armored figure in the Last Battle have some relation to Xemnas?

"For the recognizable figures and the recognizable faces, reaching the secret this time is extremely difficult, but I think the video is fairly spectacular and will stir you imaginations. The armored figures have a connection to Xemnas but after all I can't give any specifics at the present stage. But, the video this time has a foreboding opening and please think of the figures ahead as having reason and a hinting connection."


So the interviewer obviously thought there was a pretty obvious connection here. Keep denying it though. It's only gettin funny.

I'm very aware of that interview? All he said was there that was a connection with the knights. He said Terra looked like Xemnas. I don't see the armor mentioned anywhere, at least no comment on how similar their armors look.

Vexen is pretty old, but he doesn't have the crazy psychopath posture.

He's not that old. I'd say he's in his late forties at most. MX is obviously much older.

I mean he does his little eyeball thing, but thats it. Maybe he would have a different stance younger but neither you or I can say so that's neither here nor there. All we can say is based on what we have to see and what you see is a old man with crazy crooked posture, that he could have had his WHOLE life or maybe not. But he's got it now, that's for sure.

Old people often have crooked posture...

Other than his name/title, which metaphor or NOT is very suggestive of NOT being flesh and blood. Also other than him babbling almost incoherently. Also other than him mistaking Sora for Xehanort. These things don't really point to your everyday flesh and blood Terra.

How so? If his mind is stuck reminiscing in the past he might not be all that aware of reality. I bet it's probably been a long time since he's seen anybody.

NOT to mention the fight you go through a large black portal to get it him. Also sugestive that your not fighting on a PLANE of reality, but a different plane.

The Xemnas battle was reached in the same way. Yet, it's canon. Point null.

Look your obviously too immature to recognize alternate valid theories,

No, actually, I do. Did you read my edit? I'm just contesting it. I have a bad habit of expressing my opinion as fact, when I just mean it as opinion. Sorry.

Now, can we please continue this discussion maturely, without insulting each other?

 

[V.A.T.13]

They're not.

Besides, isn't it in your or Omni's theory that Xehanort's heart was a pure heart of darkness?

Logic failed.

Why? Because you don't understand it? As I said, explain your reasons. I'll explain mine for you.
KH is made of hearts
The Machine is made of metal
The machine explodes after an overload of hearts.
The EXPLOSION, not the hearts, causes Riku to turn to his original form.
Did KH explode? No.
Did the hearts explode? No.
The machine exploded.

Yes it was.

See above.

The fact that it was added for fun, after you beat Xemnas, does not mean it is after Xemnas. Your logic is flawed.

You don't know this for a fact. My logic is fine.
If they wanted to put it in the present, they put it in the game the first time.
If they wanted to put it at a point where it happens after the game, they can't go back and re-do the ending now can they? The after credit idea is nice, but that has not been a habit in KH now has it? After credits its Secret Ending time no?
So they would have to make you beat the game first, then go back.

Facts are: if the battle is canon, it's during Sora's quest. End of story.

I don't think "Fact" and "if" can go together, but ok. Anyway, thats not a fact.
If the battle is canon, theres still the question whether it happened in the past, present, or if that is actually Terra at all and not a "ghost".
If it's in the past: Theory still works. Terra is losing his memories at that moment while MX is in him.
If the present: Still works. Since the heartless and nobody are deafeated, Terra would come back as his original self, and the dark being that is MX is floating off somewhere looking for his next victim.
If Terra is a lingering spirit: Still works. Xehanort comes back with Terra still in him.

The only way for this theory not to work is not based on this battle, but based on the DS actually. If the DS is the Xehanort we know, THEN theory fails.

What is your theory riding on? The blast from KH that we have not seen, or know if it happens.
If there is a blast, how do you know it turns someone younger? We haven't seen it turn anyone younger before, only turn someone to thier original state. Where does youth come from?
Anyway, KH has control over hearts right? Why would it have control over the body? The only way I think it would have an affect on the body is if it had an affect on the heart first. Doesn't that make more sense? Since they are seperate? Body, heart, and soul? And hearts coming from KH, and bodies coming from "earth"? ( Answer with more than a "no" please, and explain. )

Why bother? His KH was nearly complete anyway.

Ansem "died" a year before it was "almost complete". Who knows what state it was in then? I estimate halfway done, but even so, if you want power, your greedy and want the best of the best, so he would still go after the big one. ( again, want more than a "no" )

Pfff. Two different ways to the same thing.

But we have already concluded that they are not the same.
One is heart of worlds, real, and more powerful.
The other is hearts of men, fake, and weaker. If you want power, you go for the best. If you want a heart, you go through any means necessary to get one. A HUMAN one.
Again, if he "didn't want to compete", then make your own KH out of hearts of WORLDS, not men. Would be more powerful than the one made of men wouldn't it?

Naminé is the only exception.

And you know this how? I seriously want that crystal ball of yours. o__o;
If you say "special nobody", theres the chance that Axel is a "special nobody" also.

No, it's a logical assumption that can be made. Not plot hole.

It's a logical assumption that Ven and Rox are the exact same person no? Things in KH are not what they seem all the time.

You're forgetting Axel isn't the only member of the Organization. Xemnas and the others could have easily hacked into the computer. Not plot hole.

Your also forgetting that the org members sent Axel to do this mission by himself. They told him "bring him back, or kill him" and that was basically it. I think the rest we're busy with their own missions.

Um, see, here's the thing: there is no such thing as an "artificial" nobody, so what do you expect? Not plot hole, accept it, move on with your life.

Pfft. You make it sound like I actually lose sleep over this.
You do not know for a fact that there are no "artificial nobodies"

Does it need to?

For it not to be a hole, yes.
Considering that we were told that a heart, body, and soul make a being in KH, and then a character is split into 2 and not anything mentioning the 3rd...

Once again: does it need to?

Considering that the game is CALLED Kingdom Hearts, cheya. It may mention explain in future games, but as of now its a hole.

Do you need to?

For no plot hole, cheya. Not gonna STAY UP ALL NIGHT worrying about it though.
Oh, don't worry about the blue text. For my own amusement and inside joke.

Your problem here is: just because the game does not give an explanation for "x", and there is a logical explanation for it, does not mean it is a plot hole. We don't have to be spoon-fed information.

But we do not know if that logical explanation is true or not.

But anyway, there are still holes none-the less, and there will probably be more. :/

Also, it got me really pissed, so I'll say it again: your logic is flawed. The fact that we get it after Xemnas does mean it is after Xemnas. Xemnas is still around when we go to fight Terra.

If you can't accept that, it's not even worth discussing anything you.

I can accept it just fine, you're just not accepting the other possibilities at hand. All I've been hearing is "I don't like your ideas, therefore you are wrong, and I'll block out all other possibilities and note them as wrong too." even though you don't know for a fact if they are wrong or not. It really makes me think your the type of person that would call homosexuality wrong just because you don't like it, or "I don't like this type of music so it's stupid."

I love reading ED articles about those kind of people. x3

Yes.

Go back and read. D:

In due time.

No way. Not in due time. Explain yourself now. Don't back out. D:

Still connection. See, I have just as much as you do.

You keep making it sound like I disagree with the similarities of the X's.

More, actually. You have appearance. I have appearance. You have the connections. I have the connections. You have the rage. I also have the rage. You have the attacks. But I have the guardian connection, and I have personality and behavior. So who's got more?

Dude, it does not matter "who has more", this ain't no twin contest. ( Ven and Rox win that) Its the fact that Terra is actually similar to the X's, and that my theory is possible. That is ALL I'm trying to prove here, that my theory is possible, NOT that it's true or a fact. You don't have to accept it, but if your going to try to disprove it, please use FACTUAL EVIDENCE that disproves it, such as " Nomura stated that Terra is blood related to Xehanort" or " Nomura confirms the DS to be the Xehanort we know " instead of " IF such and such happens THEN your theory is false "

I love your FABULOUS icons. :'D

 

[darkheart709]

well didn't nomura say in an interview that the reason he put Terra, Aqua, and Ven in armor is because he hadn't drawn their faces yet and he didn't want to use the black hoods again. here

anyway i think DS is a Xehanort (the one we know) and that he was Master Xehanort's apprentice, maybe he was friends with Terra, Aqua, and Ven until MX did something to his heart and thats why he attacked them, maybe he remebered them as Xemnas and thats why he reffered to Aqua's armor as friend, and maybe he was trying to revive them

and why was Terra in the desert sitting down anyway, the way his speech was written seemed like he was out of it or was just waking up, maybe a spell was cast on him

 

[Axel Dog]

I'm not being obnoxious. It's my opinion. You honestly took me that seriously? Wow, internet, serious business, eh?

Yeah, I take KH seriously. If you asked me my religion, I'd tell you its KH. So yeah. I'm pretty much teh hooped on it?

Yes, but the lot of differences part, you seem to not get.

and the lot of similarities part, you seem to not get.

No.

Love these little educated responses.

I'm very aware of that interview? All he said was there that was a connection with the knights. He said Terra looked like Xemnas, obviously. I don't see the armor mentioned anywhere, at least no comment on how similar their armors look.

Furthermore, do the 3 armored figures that appear there and the similar looking armored figure in the Last Battle have some relation to Xemnas?

???

He's not that old. I'd say he's in his late forties at most. MX is obviously much older.

Vexen could easily be late 40's to 50 and MX could easily be 60. But that's neither here nor there.

How so? If his mind is stuck reminiscing in the past he might not be all that aware of reality. I bet it's probably been a long time since he's seen anybody.

How to believe something so unfounded and elborate as he's stuck in the past in some desert he's been there for at least 10 years hasn't talked to anybody somehow he's still alive after being alone in the desert for 10 years. Your willing to accept THAT, before seeing that it's just. not. him. ALL he is, is a sentiment. A feeling. A reflection. Go stash your metaphor theory in the same place you keep your Xemnas being sarcastic theory.

The Xemnas battle was reached in the same way. Yet, it's canon. Point null.

Actually Xemnas battle was reached walking through a Door to kingdom hearts. Thnx tho.

Your rude tone of voice is also getting on my nerves. But you don't see me complaining about that do you?

Yeah, I am being more rude to you than i normally would. But i'm just doing to you what you do to everyone else. So if your finding it rude, hey, guess what, so do we.

 

[Wehrmacht]

Besides, isn't it in your or Omni's theory that Xehanort's heart was a pure heart of darkness?

No, that's Omni's. I don't even think he believes it anymore.

Why? Because you don't understand it? As I said, explain your reasons. I'll explain mine for you.
KH is made of hearts
The Machine is made of metal
The machine explodes after an overload of hearts.
The EXPLOSION, not the hearts, causes Riku to turn to his original form.

The hearts caused the explosion. The explosion resulted from the machine exploding because of the hearts. Besides, didn't you listen to Xemnas? "HEARTZ R THE SURCE OF ALL PUWERZ!!".

You don't know this for a fact. My logic is fine.

It's flawed.

If they wanted to put it in the present, they put it in the game the first time.
If they wanted to put it at a point where it happens after the game, they can't go back and re-do the ending now can they?

They could have given you it post credits. If we did, then that would indeed be a different story. Nomura is an uncreative prick, but he's not that lazy.

The after credit idea is nice, but that has not been a habit in KH now has it? After credits its Secret Ending time no?
So they would have to make you beat the game first, then go back.

Um, sorry, but this is not proof that the battle takes place after Xemnas. Anyway: like I said. If we can't establish that the battle is before Xemnas, then a discussion cannot take place.

If the battle is canon, theres still the question whether it happened in the past, present, or if that is actually Terra at all and not a "ghost".

Yeah, there kinda is. But I don't think he's a ghost. Just my opinion. No disproving there.

If it's in the past: Theory still works. Terra is losing his memories at that moment while MX is in him.

Why is his armor not beat up then, if it's so soon after BBS?

If the present: Still works. Since the heartless and nobody are deafeated, Terra would come back as
his original self, and the dark being that is MX is floating off somewhere looking for his next victim.

Yeah, except it can't be after Xemnas...

What is your theory riding on? The blast from KH that we have not seen, or know if it happens.
If there is a blast, how do you know it turns someone younger? We haven't seen it turn anyone younger before, only turn someone to thier original state. Where does youth come from?

See above.

Anyway, KH has control over hearts right? Why would it have control over the body? The only way I think it would have an affect on the body is if it had an affect on the heart first. Doesn't that make more sense? Since they are seperate? Body, heart, and soul? And hearts coming from KH, and bodies coming from "earth"? ( Answer with more than a "no" please, and explain. )

See above.

Ansem "died" a year before it was "almost complete". Who knows what state it was in then? I estimate halfway done, but even so, if you want power, your greedy and want the best of the best, so he would still go after the big one. ( again, want more than a "no" )

Fine. But can we agree power is still possible?

But we have already concluded that they are not the same.
One is heart of worlds, real, and more powerful.
The other is hearts of men, fake, and weaker. If you want power, you go for the best. If you want a heart, you go through any means necessary to get one. A HUMAN one.
Again, if he "didn't want to compete", then make your own KH out of hearts of WORLDS, not men. Would be more powerful than the one made of men wouldn't it?

See above.

It's a logical assumption that Ven and Rox are the exact same person no? Things in KH are not what they seem all the time.

This example is flawed, as it would be the logical assumption BBS is the past, before Roxas was created...

Your also forgetting that the org members sent Axel to do this mission by himself. They told him "bring him back, or kill him" and that was basically it. I think the rest we're busy with their own missions.

Xemnas and the others could have still given him some help, tools, advice, whatever. Besides, you don't know if Axel is computer-savyy or not.

Pfft. You make it sound like I actually lose sleep over this.
You do not know for a fact that there are no "artificial nobodies"

Then, please explain how one would be created.

For it not to be a hole, yes.
Considering that we were told that a heart, body, and soul make a being in KH, and then a character is split into 2 and not anything mentioning the 3rd...

No, it'd be a hole if there was no logical explanation. But there is.

Considering that the game is CALLED Kingdom Hearts, cheya. It may mention explain in future games, but as of now its a hole.

No it's not, =/.

For no plot hole, cheya. Not gonna STAY UP ALL NIGHT worrying about it though.
Oh, don't worry about the blue text. For my own amusement and inside joke.

What was this about again?

But we do not know if that logical explanation is true or not.

But anyway, there are still holes none-the less, and there will probably be more. :/

You do realize not even half your holes are really holes, right?

I can accept it just fine, you're just not accepting the other possibilities at hand. All I've been hearing is "I don't like your ideas, therefore you are wrong, and I'll block out all other possibilities and note them as wrong too." even though you don't know for a fact if they are wrong or not. It really makes me think your the type of person that would call homosexuality wrong just because you don't like it, or "I don't like this type of music so it's stupid."

But it wouldn't make sense for it to be after Xemnas. Please. I'll admit this is valid for the other stuff, but not this.

Also, I'm not a homophobe.

No way. Not in due time. Explain yourself now. Don't back out. D:

What was this about again? Too lazy to go check.

Dude, it does not matter "who has more", this ain't no twin contest. ( Ven and Rox win that) Its the fact that Terra is actually similar to the X's, and that my theory is possible. That is ALL I'm trying to prove here, that my theory is possible, NOT that it's true or a fact. You don't have to accept it, but if your going to try to disprove it, please use FACTUAL EVIDENCE that disproves it, such as " Nomura stated that Terra is blood related to Xehanort" or " Nomura confirms the DS to be the Xehanort we know " instead of " IF such and such happens THEN your theory is false "

That's what I've been trying to do all this time...besides, we don't have much to go on anyway. In fact, you know what? I bet all of us are gonna be wrong and right at the same time because of some mega-plot twist.

That's what I'm hoping for, anyway.

I love your FABULOUS icons. :'D

Yours are nice too, =3.

Yeah, I take KH seriously. If you asked me my religion, I'd tell you its KH. So yeah. I'm pretty much teh hooped on it?

I take KH pretty seriously too, but it's just a game. No need for this.

and the lot of similarities part, you seem to not get.

Do I honestly need to comment on this?

Love these little educated responses.

Figures.

Furthermore, do the 3 armored figures that appear there and the similar looking armored figure in the Last Battle have some relation to Xemnas?

???

Yes. Terra looks like Xemnas. He's comparing their looks, not their armor. At least if there's armor comparison, I didn't pick up on it.

Vexen could easily be late 40's to 50 and MX could easily be 60. But that's neither here nor there.

He looks a little older to me, personally.

How to believe something so unfounded and elborate as he's stuck in the past in some desert he's been there for at least 10 years hasn't talked to anybody somehow he's still alive after being alone in the desert for 10 years.

So? Doesn't seem that unfounded or elaborate to me. See, we don't know how big that world is, or what else is in it.

Also, see Omni's post.

Your willing to accept THAT, before seeing that it's just. not. him. ALL he is, is a sentiment. A feeling. A reflection. Go stash your metaphor theory in the same place you keep your Xemnas being sarcastic theory.

Both could be possible. You don't know if it's really him, neither do I. Also, read Omni's post on the sarcasm issue.

Actually Xemnas battle was reached walking through a Door to kingdom hearts. Thnx tho.

I meant in KHFM. The first Final Mix. For the first KH. Not KH2.

Yeah, I am being more rude to you than i normally would.

Figures.

But i'm just doing to you what you do to everyone else.

No, not really. I'm just blunt. You're being, well, a little rude, really. Did I ever go and insult VAT? No. Do I refuse to accept the Terra=Xehanort theory because In just don't like it? No. I think there are as many things that suggest it could be false as there are that it is true.

I'd give them to you now, but I'm rather tired, and I have school tommorow. Also, am I judging you based on this first impression? No. I'm sure you're fairly decent otherwise, even if you seem a little rude here. First impressions are not really everything, and I'm really not as bad as you probably think I am.

I'm kind overall, but when it comes to KH, it gets a little different. I do realize I might be close-minded about certain subjects, and perhaps even considerably rude, but does that give you right to think you speak for the whole forum? No.

So if your finding it rude, hey, guess what, so do we.

Um, while I do believe those who would agree with you do exist, I suggest if you plan to criticize me, that you speak for yourself, as I stated above.

 

[OmniChaos]

In terms of behavior, a part of behavior is mannerism. MX, like i Said, is hunched and callous, his neck craned a crooked. Xemnas/Ansem(H)/Xehanort are all very poised, dignified, with posture much more befiting of a knight.

Besides MX's obvious age, he weilds an axe shaped keyblade in BBS... Now, an axe can represent a high status level... Also, the new translations of MX are very dignified... He speaks as if he held a high class... To say MX was not well mannered would be a complete and total lie... He walked slow, held his arms behind his back, left most of the attacking to the DS, ect...

Do you not think Riku hate's Xehanort's Heartless viddy viddy mucH? If not more than anyone in the whole world? Gosh, I think so.

When Riku first met Xehanort's heartless, he was fresh with rage for loosing the fight with Sora... Riku accepted Xehanort's offer... Not until after Xehanort gains complete form, does Riku's hatred toward him build...

So, what you fight is the essence of Terra, his Sentiment, not even Terra himself. There are so many ways this can co-exist with him being Xehanort.

Possible...? Yes... But, the possibility would be less than 1%...

It's stressed because its important (if at all). Xemnas doesn't make sarcastic remarks. Al the time he addresses Sora and co. "Hereos from the Realm of Light....." " Denizens of light ....." Very formal. Hey never calls Sora and co OR AtW a friend. so again, based on presidence, i don't buy it.

(For some reason, I remember stuff after I log off) Just because it does not seem like the character, does not mean he can't do it... Take Demyx for example... Put it easily, he was unsteady and a coward... Right before his fight, though, his attitude in whole changes... He is more confident, calm and ready to fight...

lol, size, and...bendability. Ok, so there "bendability" might be a little different but I guess your just saying its a coincidence, all that time spent beneath hollow bastion with aqua's armor and then he busts out with armor. Again, REGARDLESS of stylsticlly similair or UNsimilair you think it is, THE fact that they are both large bulky antique armour is connection enough. (even though I happen to think they are VERY similair....and nomura says himself that the relation is important.) ((OBVIOUSLY))

Okay, point taken... But, Xemnas' armor is (for obvious reasons) king-like... Now, going back to BBS, the keyblade MX weilded in the secret ending was shaped like an axe... Now, an axe can show a high status level... King...?

Yeah for like 10 years he just mops around in the desert. very realstic

*facepalm* Has anyone stop to think that Terra may, possibly, go there at a certain time each year to pay respects for Aqua and Ven...?

Furthermore, do the 3 armored figures that appear there and the similar looking armored figure in the Last Battle have some relation to Xemnas?

The interviewer asked that...
Nomura never mentioned that the armor is connected at all...

 

[Orion]

I betch he doesn't even have a face under that helmet, just to remain mysterious!

 

[Xemnass]

I believe that Xehanort(younger one not Master Xehanort) is the masked guy. Since in the movie at TGS his helmet gets knocked off and BAM... we never seen him....

I believe Terra, Ven, and Aqua are indeed new characters, but Ven I believe has a good reason for looking like Roxas, and is related to him in some sense. But not like a OMG HIS BROTHER, kinda thing..not that sort of related.

I've gt a ton of ideas but rather keep some to myself until more evidence is revealed, I can still find holes in my own theory.

 

[V.A.T.13]

No, that's Omni's. I don't even think he believes it anymore.

Why not? I thought it was good.

The hearts caused the explosion. The explosion resulted from the machine exploding because of the hearts. Besides, didn't you listen to Xemnas "HEARTZ R THE SURCE OF ALL PUWERZ!!".

Hearts caused the explosion
explosion =/= hearts

See above.

Didn't answer my qeust-chun.

It's flawed.

Only if what you say is fact.

They could have given you it post credits. If we did, then that would indeed be a different story. Nomura is an uncreative prick, but he's not that lazy.

If Nomu was not lazy, KH wouldn't of had Disney in it.
Besides, usually in games that have extra battles after the credits, also lets you continue the game after you beat it. KH does not let you continue after the end, it makes you start over.

Um, sorry, but this is not proof that the battle takes place after Xemnas.

There is no proof of that. Just the possibility.

Shit, this whole discussion is starting to remind me of Schrödinger's cat.
OUCH. MY MIND. x_____x

Why is his armor not beat up then, if it's so soon after BBS?

No one is ever beat-up looking gameplay wise.
Was Axel's coat torn and shredded even though he got raped by Saix? Did Riku's clothes look messed up after the Zebra Xemnas fight?

Also, I know this is weak but, High Potion? :'O

Yeah, except it can't be after Xemnas...

If it's before Xem, theres still the "travel back in time" thing or the "ghost" thing.
But if not either, then yea.

See above.

Didn't answer my qeust-chun.

See above.

Still Didn't answer my qeust-chun.

Fine. But can we agree power is still possible?

Only if "KH's Power" knocked MX's heart out of Xehanort. But a small 13% of me will go for the de-aging bit.

See above.

Broken record much? Didn't answer my qeust-chun.

This example is flawed, as it would be the logical assumption BBS is the past, before Roxas was created...

Xemnas and the others could have still given him some help, tools, advice, whatever. Besides, you don't know if Axel is computer-savyy or not.

The other members give him help? I kinda doubt it. The only ones who I think didn't really have a mission was Saix and Luxord.
Do you really think Saix would help Axel? In a non-violent way? XD
As for Luxord, even though he's Nomu's fav, he practically doesn't exist. D:

Axel being computer smart? ( Axel being smart? XD ) Don't think he's the type with enough patients especially in the case of Rox, and has never shown signs to be good with anything electric (Larxene included) but hey. It could be. *shrugs*

Only ones I think could be computer smart are the first 6, who I think, weren't worried about Rox. Hell I don't think any of them really cared about Rox anymore. Top priority during KH2 was getting KH done, and they already were using Sora for collecting hearts, no?

Then, please explain how one would be created.

Emblem heartless produce emblem nobodies. That was easy. o.o

No, it'd be a hole if there was no logical explanation. But there is.

Which we don't know is true or not.

No it's not, =/.

When the game says more than one thing about the same thing and doesn't explain, I see it as a hole.

What was this about again?

Your mom. I ain't lookin back.

You do realize not even half your holes are really holes, right?

Doesn't change that there are still holes.

But it wouldn't make sense for it to be after Xemnas. Please. I'll admit this is valid for the other stuff, but not this.

Fine. I'll let you keep your ways.

Also, I'm not a homophobe.

Not calling you one. Homophobes are scared of TEH GHEY and wants them ded and gone. Srsly, theres this chick on DA who doesn't like homosexuality and believes it's a sin, but isn't a homophobe, and has bi friends.

...uhh....yea...I kinda got into a discussion with her and....che'yeaaaa....
I hope I didn't drive her into depression. >>;;; Note to self: Don't talk about religion around 15yr olds who are obsessed with the church. >___>;;;

What was this about again? Too lazy to go check.

Your other theories besides these ones.

That's what I've been trying to do all this time...besides, we don't have much to go on anyway. In fact, you know what? I bet all of us are gonna be wrong and right at the same time because of some mega-plot twist.

That's what I'm hoping for, anyway.

I'm hoping for a GAINAX-like ending. But I don't think Nomu is that cool.

W E L C O M E H O M E S O R A

....Dude...that ending would be f*cking awesome. But if they did it, I'd bitch slap Nomura for ripping off such a great animu. D<

But...Sora makes a good Nono...*smacks self* NO! Thats KH1 and fandom Sora dammit. DX

If anything, it's gonna have a shitty ending with Sora beating the bad guy WITH TEH POWURZ OF FRIENDSHIPZ and then going home and marrying Kairi. Even though I can come up with much better endings and plot lines and such, this Disney shit-fest is probably gonna happen.
I swear, if it weren't for flashy lights, faggotry pretty boys, and Square, I'd seriously wouldn't touch KH.

Yours are nice too, =3.

Half of that was an insult :'D
The meaner I am to you, the more of a friend I am to you.
But I will never save your life without profit.

I take KH pretty seriously too, but...

Yeah, I take KH seriously. If you asked me my religion, I'd tell you its KH. So yeah. I'm pretty much teh hooped on it?

Both of you. Die in a fire please. D:

You don't see me insulting VAT, do you? I like her, even though we don't agree on things.

Ew. Goddamn abolitionist. D<

Possible...? Yes... But, the possibility would be less than 1%...

1%? Sounds like 100% to me!

...

...I'm going back to /a/...

Okay, point taken... But, Xemnas' armor is (for obvious reasons) king-like... Now, going back to BBS, the keyblade MX weilded in the secret ending was shaped like an axe... Now, an axe can show a high status level... King...?

Kings usually weild swords and septers or some long stick/blade like weapon. You know. Cuz they got the biggest cock n all. :/
Short little steroid gnome soilders/warriors use axes >>;
Axe also would represent someone who is a hard worker like a farmer, hunter, lumberjack etc.
Kings do not work! Tis blasphemy I tells ye! Sends other people to do his shit. Unless, he is an awesome king like Leon-nai-tits, (You know. Sparta guy in the undies. ) and joins in the battle along with his men because of honor, pride, and all that good crap that gets you killed.

but then again, if your Lelouch, you can just Geass everybody...

...wait whut? Oh yea, KH...

Also, I can't see an axe in his keyblade. :/ A double bladed sword like Kadaj, but not really an axe. A double-bladed scyth with a handle if anything. ( Bephomet? scyth? Sinister colors? THEMS THE DEVILS I TELLS YA. BIBLE FIGHT! *chunks bible at you*)

 

[OmniChaos]

Kings usually weild swords and septers or some long stick/blade like weapon. You know. Cuz they got the biggest cock n all. :/
Short little steroid gnome soilders/warriors use axes >>;
Axe also would represent someone who is a hard worker like a farmer, hunter, lumberjack etc.
Kings do not work! Tis blasphemy I tells ye! Sends other people to do his shit. Unless, he is an awesome king like Leon-nai-tits, (You know. Sparta guy in the undies. ) and joins in the battle along with his men because of honor, pride, and all that good crap that gets you killed.

Random...

Wiki -- At least since the late Neolithic, elaborate axes (battle-axes, T-axes, etc.) probably indicated the exalted status of their owner.

Also, I can't see an axe in his keyblade. :/ A double bladed sword like Kadaj, but not really an axe. A double-bladed scyth with a handle if anything. ( Bephomet? scyth? Sinister colors? THEMS THE DEVILS I TELLS YA. BIBLE FIGHT! *chunks bible at you*)

...Anyways, watch BBS again and stare at MX's keyblade...
I think Hades might have a pic, but I'm not sure...