This is probably a dumb question, but would Ven have been able to be in control when he fused with Vanitas? Because if they were both equal in power, which they had to have been to form the X-blade, wouldn't Ven have been able to fight off Vanitas and maintain control over his body, and be able to use the X-blade for his own good purposes?
Could Ven have taken over Vanitas?
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I don't think they had to be of exact equal power. I think MX was just worried that Ventus wouldn't be able to survive the fusion (and thus create the blade) had they not been closer to equal power.
But no, I don't think Ventus could do it. He was weaker.
But no, I don't think Ventus could do it. He was weaker.
^This.
And beside this Ventus wouldn't do it even if he could...he's not the dominant type who wants to control others nor has he any desires to accumulate more power (x-blade).
It's just not in Ven's nature.
Besides, if he really would have taken control of their fusion and wielded the x-blade...Master Xehanort would have crushed him and then take the x-blade for himself.
And beside this Ventus wouldn't do it even if he could...he's not the dominant type who wants to control others nor has he any desires to accumulate more power (x-blade).
It's just not in Ven's nature.
Besides, if he really would have taken control of their fusion and wielded the x-blade...Master Xehanort would have crushed him and then take the x-blade for himself.
I don't think it's a question of power really. It's a question of knowledge.
I think that ahead of time, MX instructed Vanitas how to internally fight with Ven while simultaneously controlling the body on the outside. Ven didn't even know Vanitas was controlling their body.
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No... it was a question of power. MX says in his reports.
Where does he say it? All I'm finding is him saying that initially Ven was weaker than Vanitas and had to be made stronger.
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That alone shows how it was a question of power...
Ven and Vanitas only fought internally because Ven's mind was resisting the entire time and thus preventing the completion of the x-blade.
It's also possible that the mental battle between them took place only after Aqua managed to crack the x-blade, as Ventus-Vanitas collapsed and the damaged x-blade continued to float in the air for quite a while before it shattered.
It's also possible that the mental battle between them took place only after Aqua managed to crack the x-blade, as Ventus-Vanitas collapsed and the damaged x-blade continued to float in the air for quite a while before it shattered.
But he also said that the only way for them to form the X-Blade was to make their powers equal. And since the X-Blade was formed, they were equal in power, which means something else must have been involved for Vanitas to have total control.
I think Ven and Vanitas's battle was happening the whole time that Aqua's was. Otherwise Venitas wouldn't have been just standing there with his head lowered when Aqua woke up. He would be opening the door to connect all worlds.
Even if he had succeeded in taking control of his body, I don't know if he could have used the x-blade for good purposes. Isn't the whole point of its existence to unlock Kingdom Hearts and start another Keyblade War? And then with Master Xehanort and Braig also present and wanting to use the x-blade for those purposes, the best thing that Ven could have done was destroy it.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. If it was a question of power, the x-blade wouldn't have been forged in the first place. Both MX and Vanitas make it clear several times that the x-blade is forged when light and darkness of equal strength clash. That was the whole point of luring Ven out into the worlds, so he could get stronger. Plus, aren't we all forgetting something here? Ven did succeed in overthrowing Vanitas. He might not have controlled the both of them the way Vanitas possessed him, but he still managed to overpower Vanitas and take back control of his body. So he was strong enough to do it.
I think chasespicer's explanation makes more sense: Ven didn't fully understand what was happening, unlike Vanitas, so he couldn't just take control and start wielding the x-blade himself. Wheras Vanitas had four years of training with MX to prepare for the experience. Ven did the only thing that he knew would work: destroy Vanitas.
Yeah I just don't see it being an issue of power.
Not magical/physical power or battle power is meant here, but power of the heart.
After the creation of Vanitas Ven's heart was severely weakened and as Vanitas started to feed off on Ven's remaining energy it became steadily weaker.
There was an huge imbalance between the two hearts intended for the x-blade.
Xehanort therefore gave him to Eraqus to train his heart so that Ven could withstand the x-blade-forging process.
After the creation of Vanitas Ven's heart was severely weakened and as Vanitas started to feed off on Ven's remaining energy it became steadily weaker.
There was an huge imbalance between the two hearts intended for the x-blade.
Xehanort therefore gave him to Eraqus to train his heart so that Ven could withstand the x-blade-forging process.
Yes, but we're talking about why Vanitas was able to control their combined body at the Keyblade Graveyard. with no interference from Ven.
Who says there was no interference from Ven's side?
If there was no interference the x-blade would have been complete and when it would have been destroyed then both Vanitas and Ven would have perished for good.
Ven did do something to resist Vanitas, yet he wasn't able to repel him completely.
Vanitas managed to take over Ven's body and also managed to intrude Ven's heart...yet he could not take over the heart completely and also not subdue Ven's mind and will.
That's why it was only a partly fusion, Vanitas had full intentions to enslave Ven completely, but he failed halfway, so to speak.
EDIT:
Like I said, the order of these two fights is still debatable, as I had also a whole site-long debate with other users about this, as the surrounding events can suggest otherwise (i.e. the x-blade taking on it's damaged appearance after Aqua struck it, the same one Vanitas wielded in the Awakening).
Yet the last sentence of your statement couldn't happen since the x-blade was not complete in the first place.
If there was no interference the x-blade would have been complete and when it would have been destroyed then both Vanitas and Ven would have perished for good.
Ven did do something to resist Vanitas, yet he wasn't able to repel him completely.
Vanitas managed to take over Ven's body and also managed to intrude Ven's heart...yet he could not take over the heart completely and also not subdue Ven's mind and will.
That's why it was only a partly fusion, Vanitas had full intentions to enslave Ven completely, but he failed halfway, so to speak.
EDIT:
Like I said, the order of these two fights is still debatable, as I had also a whole site-long debate with other users about this, as the surrounding events can suggest otherwise (i.e. the x-blade taking on it's damaged appearance after Aqua struck it, the same one Vanitas wielded in the Awakening).
Yet the last sentence of your statement couldn't happen since the x-blade was not complete in the first place.
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I think I already said this in another thread on this subject, but it could really just be for dramatic reasons as well. What would be the point of working the whole game towards this fusion if it just turned out with Ven in control. Very anticlimactic. "I dont know what happened, but I just have this insanely powerful weapon now and Vanitas is gone. I guess I'll go save Terra"
The X-Blade WAS complete. On the outside at least. And Vanitas seemed pretty confident he could open the doors to all worlds when he mocked Aqua.
But if there wasn't an internal struggle occurring, he wouldn't have been standing there like a lifeless doll.
Haha that would have killed it.
I admit you have a point there, yet that still doesn't explain why the x-blade remained there that long after Aqua cracked it and why it took exactly the appearance of the damaged one Vanitas used in the awakening before finally disintegrating.
Ventus-Vanitas also laid there collapsed yet still with Vanitas's suit, so the struggle could also have happened then.
We don't know how much time passes between after Ventus-Vanitas is created and Mickey awakened Aqua.
Remember MX also gave Vanitas the order to kill Aqua...he maybe just waited for her to confront him so that he could mock her an relish in his victory over Ven.
The x-blade looked complete, but ultimately wasn't.
As far as I remember Vanitas said something along the lines "our union was not finished" as if something had interrupted it midway => probably Ven realizing what was happening and finally stemming himself against Vanitas's invasion?
Yet he also said "the x-blade shouldn't stay broken like this" implying damage, so maybe the internal struggle we are allowed to play in Ven's scenario isn't the only one...
chasespicer056 said:
Lol, maybe, but I could also imagine this scenery going further:
Ven eagerly jumping up that rock formation with the x-blade, ready to face MX.
Ven: "This time you won't give me frost bite on my entire body, old man."
He arrives on top, but no Xehanort is there, only "Terra".
Ven: " Terra, you did it!? You defeated him...I'm so glad."
"Terra", turning around with an evil smirk, hair silver and yellow eyes: " Is that so? Well, this isn't the outcome I planned but whatever, the nice friendly delivery boy comes right to me bringing me my x-blade..."
Terranort warps, grabs Ven by the throat and steals the x-blade...
...wouldn't that actually made a way "worse" outcome if Xehanort himself would actually get a hold of that weapon? Lol.
True, but I doubt Ven would have let that happen. He is a Sora after all. This could have also given us a chance to use the X-Blade, and requrie no final episode since a blast from the X-Blade would already erase Terranort's memory.
Yeah, I suppose you are right, and if he did destroy it, that could mean his heart would have been completely destroyed and not have found its way back to Sora, which would change the whole series.
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