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Can someone explain to me how Sora, Donald, and Goofy were stupid in KHII?



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Mephis

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Maybe I'm missing something, so refresh my memories on what made them any more stupid than they were in the first game.
 
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The Conquerer

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They were pretty slow, been way too long, so I can't remember much. I know in KH1, it was a bit explainable, since it was Sora's first time in experiencing outside worlds, forces, Keyblade, etc. Donald and Goofy also weren't the brightest candles on the cake, so, first time through, things were a bit more acceptable by fans.
 

Shinjuku

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The only real time I remember Sora, Donald, and Goofy being real stupid was at the beginning during their first meeting even though it was actually needed so Sora wouldn't be so down about losing his two friends.

As for KH2 it was just corny I don't remember it all, but that's the one word that describes half their interactions with certain characters.
 

Keystaff Master

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I think it was mostly Sora in KH2 that was the dumb one. In fact, Goofy was the SMART one in KH2. Goofy new that Ping (Mulan) was a girl and he considered that Mushu's shadow WASN'T a heartless (while Sora and Donald just jumped him). Weird, but Goofy was the more observant one in the group. Donald was just being Donald, I don't recall him ever doing anything too stupid. I'd chalk the Ping and Mushu's shadow thing to him and Sora being more so naive.

Sora though? Ugh, he was just a complete dingus. For one, he sounds stupid and says a lot of corny things (and not in a good way). He uses the term "toast" two too many times. His epic heartfelt monologues from KH1 aren't there in KH2. He says NOTHING philosophical or heartfelt (at least not on the same level as "My friends are my power" for example). Plus, he's REALLY bad at discerning something. He really can't seem to come to any conclusions unless directly told. I don't know, guess it was just Sora's "awkward phase".
 

Love Machine

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By "stupid", I'm sure everyone means immature. In my opinion, the trio was less mature than the previous game. It just seems as if they would have matured more during II, but they seemed to take everything like it was not serious, which disappointed me.
 

kupo1121

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Sora though? Ugh, he was just a complete dingus. For one, he sounds stupid and says a lot of corny things (and not in a good way). He uses the term "toast" two too many times. His epic heartfelt monologues from KH1 aren't there in KH2. He says NOTHING philosophical or heartfelt (at least not on the same level as "My friends are my power" for example). Plus, he's REALLY bad at discerning something. He really can't seem to come to any conclusions unless directly told. I don't know, guess it was just Sora's "awkward phase".

I don't see how sounding stupid makes him stupid...that is opinionated. Saying corny things could be on purpose, which actually makes her smarter if he meant to say them, and considering nobody knows what goes on inside his head but Nomura, we can't make that call. A lot of people have a favorite word or catchphrase, saying them repeatedly doesn't make it stupid, so "toast" should be discounted as well. Not having heartfelt monologues means he just changed emotionally and he didn't want to reveal his true feelings...just because someone is shy to admit what they are feeling doesn't make them stupid. The only point that you stated that would count as stupid was how he can't come to any conclusions, and even that isn't fully being "stupid." Honestly, I am really oblivious to many things and my street smarts are stellar, but my school grades are amazing, and I'm not stupid...so I have to disagree with you...a lot.
 

Keystaff Master

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I don't see how sounding stupid makes him stupid...that is opinionated. Saying corny things could be on purpose, which actually makes her smarter if he meant to say them, and considering nobody knows what goes on inside his head but Nomura, we can't make that call. A lot of people have a favorite word or catchphrase, saying them repeatedly doesn't make it stupid, so "toast" should be discounted as well. Not having heartfelt monologues means he just changed emotionally and he didn't want to reveal his true feelings...just because someone is shy to admit what they are feeling doesn't make them stupid. The only point that you stated that would count as stupid was how he can't come to any conclusions, and even that isn't fully being "stupid." Honestly, I am really oblivious to many things and my street smarts are stellar, but my school grades are amazing, and I'm not stupid...so I have to disagree with you...a lot.

I see you point and I respect your opinion, but I never called him "stupid" I called him a "dingus". I don't think he's a complete idiot or anything, but in comparison to how he was in KH1 and CoM I would have to say he's not as smart. And when I speak of Sora's intelligence I'm not talking his IQ or anything (which really isn't relevant), I'm speaking of his powers of observation and his philosophical views. Neither of these really show through in his KH2 self and that's where I'm drawing the comparison.

If Sora means to be corny more power to him, but I don't think we have any way of knowing if he meant to be corny or come off as threatening.

And as for keeping his feelings in, yeah I get where you're coming from, but from a character development standpoint wouldn't that be a step in the wrong direction?
 

kupo1121

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I think it was mostly Sora in KH2 that was the dumb one.
I see you point and I respect your opinion, but I never called him "stupid" I called him a "dingus". I don't think he's a complete idiot or anything, but in comparison to how he was in KH1 and CoM I would have to say he's not as smart. And when I speak of Sora's intelligence I'm not talking his IQ or anything (which really isn't relevant), I'm speaking of his powers of observation and his philosophical views. Neither of these really show through in his KH2 self and that's where I'm drawing the comparison.

If Sora means to be corny more power to him, but I don't think we have any way of knowing if he meant to be corny or come off as threatening.

And as for keeping his feelings in, yeah I get where you're coming from, but from a character development standpoint wouldn't that be a step in the wrong direction?

Stupid is a synonym of dumb. Also, one can interpret one's observation and philosophical skills as part of their intelligence so I don't see where you are going with that...also, if he taking a step in the wrong direction...that sucks but thats too bad...it's character development after all.
 

Keystaff Master

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Stupid is a synonym of dumb. Also, one can interpret one's observation and philosophical skills as part of their intelligence so I don't see where you are going with that...also, if he taking a step in the wrong direction...that sucks but thats too bad...it's character development after all.

Personally, I don't put "dumb" and "stupid" on the same level, that's just my choice of words. If I'm wrong by the dictionary sue me, but please don't nitpick. It what makes forum discussions not fun. :/

One's intelligence includes a lot of things: ability to learn, to reason, etc. I'm only talking about his philosophy and ability to make assessments. If this topic was supposed to be about Sora actually being dolt then sorry, that's not what I'm arguing for.

And as for the character development, do you personally agree with Sora developing the way he has? Or are you just saying so for the sake of arguing you point? /:[
 

blueheart

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Stupid is a synonym of dumb.

Actually, stupid and dumb can sometimes not be a synonym.

A quote my dad always says when you make mistakes, "You're not dumb, you're stupid."
There's a difference between making stupid choices, and having a dumb thought process.
You're stupid for making choices for things that are below you, you're dumb for not regretting them or realizing afterwards.
 
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Ovafaze

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Story-wise? I think it was Namine, shes the ultimate troll.
 

alexis.anagram

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Story-wise? I think it was Namine, shes the ultimate troll.
I see what you did there, and I like it. x'D

I think after everything Sora, Donald and Goofy had been through, it was natural for them to be less intimidated by every little thing that came along. Sora had already nearly died multiple times and I don't think he was really scared of the big bad Heartless anymore. I don't think any of them were any more stupid than they had been, they were just more bold and less world weary than they had been the first two games.

As for why Sora never espoused any great poetry during KH2, the answer is clearly that Roxas took all of his brooding philosophical sensibilities.
 

kupo1121

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Personally, I don't put "dumb" and "stupid" on the same level, that's just my choice of words. If I'm wrong by the dictionary sue me, but please don't nitpick. It what makes forum discussions not fun. :/

One's intelligence includes a lot of things: ability to learn, to reason, etc. I'm only talking about his philosophy and ability to make assessments. If this topic was supposed to be about Sora actually being dolt then sorry, that's not what I'm arguing for.

And as for the character development, do you personally agree with Sora developing the way he has? Or are you just saying so for the sake of arguing you point? /:[

Sorry...you are going to find a lot of nitpickers on forums because if you are trying to argue your point, even the slightest thing can and will be used against you...best advice, proofread your latest posts :)

Also, one's intelligence does include a large list of things...so focusing on any part could be seen as focusing on parts of his intelligence...

Lastly, yes, I agree with how Sora's character has developed because I am sure that Nomura did it for a reason and plans to make some use of it later on in the series, and in order for it to be accomplished, if Sora has to take two steps back first, then by all means I'm for it.
 

zaqareemalcolm

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Well, we it is implied that Roxas' merging with Sora isn't fully complete (ie. They merge again right before Xemnas attacks again). What if this stupidity was actually just Sora acting in impulse, seeing that he is (to put bluntly) still a walking heart.
I might be pulling stuff out of my ass, but just a thought.
 
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blueheart

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The only real explanation could be that he was traumatized by the events of KH1 and CoM and reverted back to childlike behavior to cope with it instead of saying something for the purpose of not being a downer of a keyblade master and "no sad faces".

Or Namine has more powers than we think and made Sora slightly retarded.
 
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