Anyone else irked a bit at 0.2?

[Xickin]

i don't really know what y'all are on about with the writing in 2.8 being awful in a dialogue sense. it is certainly no worse than any other kingdom hearts game. in many ways it's even a big improvement.

If we're talking about bad dialogue, then the only thing that kind of made my head turn was the MoM's lines. No disrespect to Ray Chase (one of my new favourite VAs), and maybe it was just a cultural difference, but the MoM's lines felt really forced when he was trying to be funny (and they weren't all that funny). Also, for some reason I could REALLY feel the Japanese in Back Cover (it was a slow creep in other games, but in this one it just skyrocketed).

 

[Grono]

If we're talking about bad dialogue, then the only thing that kind of made my head turn was the MoM's lines. No disrespect to Ray Chase (one of my new favourite VAs), and maybe it was just a cultural difference, but the MoM's lines felt really forced when he was trying to be funny (and they weren't all that funny). Also, for some reason I could REALLY feel the Japanese in Back Cover (it was a slow creep in other games, but in this one it just skyrocketed).

To be fair, that line about Aced being a bear is horrible. Why did he laugh at that?! That was like the dullest thing ever uttered by a human being.

I can see the Japanese creep, it's especially apparent with the designs of the foretellers, which really have no story reason to being multi-colored animals other than to make it feel like you're watching the lamest, most dialogue heavy episode of Power Rangers: Wild Force ever written.

 

[Audo]

If we're talking about bad dialogue, then the only thing that kind of made my head turn was the MoM's lines.

i seriously wonder about you guys

MoM was the best thing about 2.8

have y'all no joy anymore

 

[Sephiroth0812]

See, that's kinda what I thought, but it seems pretty stupid to me regardless. Mickey is outright TOLD that if Sora tried to take on the memories of those connected to him when he was unprepared he wouldn't be able to handle it. Yes, they thought the exam was safe, but Sora still had the right to that information considering it directly affected him, differently from the Aqua thing, and Yen Sid and Mickey should have told him right away.

And Yen Sid apparently hasn't told him NOW either, and if they had any doubts on it, Riku probably cleared those up when he relied what happened inside Sora when he got the data from Ansem.

From an outside, more objective viewpoint it certainly is pretty stupid, also when considering that Sora often gets left out of the loop in general.
It's somewhat funny when you bring up Sora having "a right" to this information when until Re: Coded Yen Sid and Mickey were of exactly the opposite opinion and did not say anything regarding Ventus (and the whole BBS trio) because it is "none of Sora's business", then in Re: Coded they learn there IS a connection but remain still vague and dodgy about the whole thing for reasons only the writers and/or Nomura know.
We see it in the credits of BBS and also in the finale of DDD that Mickey apparently still considers his inability to prevent TAV from suffering their horrible fates a personal failure of himself and thus may have a drive to do the saving himself, but in the end those are all speculation and objectively spoken Yen Sid and/or Mickey not telling Sora about Ventus even now after DDD is simply stupidity, most likely for plot reasons to have a huge "surprise" in store somewhere over the course of KH III, a typical "Nomura-twist".

Apparently not, as there's no indication of it in the ending scenes of 0.2.
Yen Sid only speaks about those who need to be saved in general terms again shortly before immediately switching to the state of Sora's powers.
As we don't know what exactly Riku told Yen Sid and Mickey we can't really jump to conclusions here as he might just have spoken about his encounter with Ansem the Wise and the data he received, omitting the three-question stuff with Roxas, Ven and Xion.

I have to agree with that.
I don't mind Dolan and Gooby not remembering Ventus, to be honest, but the whole thing with them being in the tower in BBS WAS indeed a plothole. And, if I may add, such an unneeded one. They could've just NOT been there. But SE decided to put them there for no relevant reason.

If I had to make a wild guess the main reason Dolan and Gooby being placed there was in order for Ventus to get their D-Links (I actually forgot right now how Aqua gains them), although even that could have been done easier and without bringing up needless mumbo-jumbo concerning Yen Sid's tower by simply having Dolan and Gooby present in Disney Town and let Aqua and Ven gain their D-Links there.

I'm just not a big fan of those scenes where a lot of characters randomly "pray" to the same person as their key of hope. Whoever liked it - good for them - for me it just seemed too much, similar to the weird usage of "may your heart be your guiding key" in 2.8.

If I am honest the whole underlining message that all these suffering people can actually be saved and gain another chance was the main enjoyable thing I got out of Blank Points in general, not so much the execution of the scenes.
The "may your heart be your guiding key"-issue rubs me somewhat the wrong way due to it being a) already overused right now and b) being such a blatant Star Wars-rip off that it almost hurts.
Power Rangers had something similar in the 1990s with the "May the power protect you" (or whatever it was spelled in English, I know only the German variant by memory)-phrase uttered often by Zordon, so considering the "Power Rangers"-vibe of the Foretellers it might also be a rip off from this, but in Power Rangers this one was there from Episode 1 unlike the tacked on thingy we get with KH right now as I can't remember the phrase ever coming up in Browser-Chi.

This. And given that KH2 exists, I find it pretty hard to buy that Back Cover or 0.2 could really be the new "low points" for KH script and writing.

Agreed, KH's dialogue script really never was stellar to begin with.

 

[kirabook]

I think some people are wearing rosy glasses when remembering the dialogue of past games.

As for why they didn't tell Sora about TAV, it's clearly for plot points. They only told him vague things about them... but then again, they only vaguely know his connection to him to.

They know that Aqua almost passed the power onto him and that she met Sora and Riku. They know that obviously something deep is going on with Sora and Ven since Roxas is nearly identical to Ven. And by extension, I guess Sora is also connected to Terra in the same way Mickey is, kinda second hand.

They probably thought they'd get the test out of the way and when Sora and crew got back, they'd explain everything and send Sora on his way. I guess I'll just pretend they didn't want to distract Sora from his ultimate mission, gain a 'new power' and sent him in with little information despite the smarter solution being telling him everything that happened and giving Sora a proper goal while going through the test because obviously Sora kinda goofs off if his goal isn't very very clear cut and immediate.

 

[VoidGear.]

I mean, accepting that past dialogue has been bad doesn't justify new dialogue being bad as well for me personally. 2.8 has improved in some aspects, but it has also been awful in some other. Might not be worse or much different from other games, but that kinda doesn't change the fact that it's not good.

 

[kirabook]

Nah, doesn't justify it. It's just clear that 0.2 is not like a step down or the worst of the worse. I personally thought there was some major improvements not only in the dialog, but the voice acting too.

I think the real issues is that... sometimes they could translate things to flow so much better or to be less awkward or something. I don't know. But when the line is cheesy, only the most silkiest of voices can make it sound better.

I'm not expecting KH3 dialogue to be pretty mediocre too. As my friend and I like to say, Kingdom Hearts dialogue is full of cheese, and Aqua is at the top of the cheesiest chain (Like telling Maleficent she doesn't know the power of true love. I mean, that's pretty obvious.)

But I've already embraced the cheese, as long as it's not cringe. Aqua's "cats and dogs" moment wasn't cringe, and I like how it was delivered and everything. And it was very feelsy. But... of all the things to mention... why cats and dogs Nomura?

 

[Hirokey123]

It helps highlight how even the smallest and most innocent of creatures were affected by the loss of the world, creatures who had no hope of knowing or understanding what was going on around them as their world was torn to bits.

 

[kirabook]

Then hopefully that means in KH3, we'll see more than Lucifer and the occasional omnipotent Pluto.

 

[Hirokey123]

Those 3 fish Sora caught and gave to kairi are crying right now at having been forgotten.

 

[Muke]

I really liked her "cats and dogs" moment, because it's like Hirokey said.

Also, I'm really not worried about KH3's dialogue. I'm sure they will make sure not to fuck up mess up this time with such a big, anticipated title.

 

[Grono]

Those 3 fish Sora caught and gave to kairi are crying right now at having been forgotten.

Those three fish are probably going to be picked up by Ansem and made into Xehanort clones, let's be honest people. I wouldn't count it out.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

That seagull egg, with its healthy green stripes and its size, 2-3 times an adult seagull.

 

[Grono]

That seagull egg, with its healthy green stripes and its size, 2-3 times an adult seagull.

Oh yeah, we should bring back the seagullnort theories! I missed those! And also the Sora's Mom-nort ones too xD

 

[Audo]

Aqua's "cats and dogs" moment wasn't cringe, and I like how it was delivered and everything. And it was very feelsy. But... of all the things to mention... why cats and dogs Nomura?

it's part of illustrating the series' central thesis that everything has a heart, that everything has life. she talks about the humans, their pets, and even the trees and flowers, how all of this life that was here in this world had fallen into darkness. it is honestly not that hard to grasp. and it even worked at fleshing the world out more and making it feel more real. the fact that so many people are getting caught up on this line of dialogue is so weird to me.

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

2.8 had some of the best localization out of any of the games. I don't understand the complaints, but to each their own

 

[hemmoheikkinen]

I guess since animals have never been talked about a lot in KH`s narrative or dialogue, Aqua bringing them up in 0.2 might have felt weird for some people. But since Ansem the Wise talking about how all things have a heart it didn`t feel too odd to me at least.

 

[Hirokey123]

I think what felt weird is Aqua's speech makes it sound like she had been to that town before. And like if you know the movie yeah she actually had to have been since it's smack in the middle of the path between the castle and Cinderella's manor....but like it's one of the most blatant disconnects between story and gameplay. Because you know Aqua had to have walked through this beautiful quaint village before but you also know that the makers dubbed the village unimportant and thus skipped over the long travel distance. So inherently this scene just makes you feel like you missed something.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I think what felt weird is Aqua's speech makes it sound like she had been to that town before. And like if you know the movie yeah she actually had to have been since it's smack in the middle of the path between the castle and Cinderella's manor....but like it's one of the most blatant disconnects between story and gameplay. Because you know Aqua had to have walked through this beautiful quaint village before but you also know that the makers dubbed the village unimportant and thus skipped over the long travel distance. So inherently this scene just makes you feel like you missed something.

Well, there's also this thing called "suspension of disbelief" which for the KH Series is certainly needed for some parts, as if one really looks for every single small hair in the soup there will be quite some to be found in the end.

To let one's own imagination fill those "blanks" of the town not having been in BBS proper should also not be too much of a challenge either.

Ot to say it how gronodonthegreat did on page 5:

I feel like this fanbase sometimes doesn't want themselves to enjoy something just because it has bad elements to it

It's almost like with X Back Cover. Yes, it doesn't cover enough of the story of the x-era, yes, it doesn't jump around somewhat abruptly with its scenes and yes it does end on a WTF-unfinished note but there aren't only negative things about it.

 

[Rydgea]

I think I encounter the opposite issue. I tend to mainly see, upon initial release, how great or favored the latest entry is above all others. When Dream Drop Distance was released, it was to my surprise a great many folks new favorite. I think some people need to let some time pass and replay titles to cement 'favorites', because time has shed a different light on the game. I certainly enjoyed it, but it's merely middle of the road in when compared to all other games in the series.

All in all, it's a series of harmless entertainment, and it's all mostly enjoyable! It definitely wouldn't be read to filth if the fans didn't care for the series, even though it may seem like there is disdain for it on surface level.

* * *

That being said, I definitely had my issues with the latest entry. Once again, it felt middle tier to me, DDD level, NOT that that's bad. Not my favorite, but fun, and got me revved me up further for III. I'm also not posting this in the 2.8 discussion thread, because I don't want any Unchained X plot points ruined for me. I have, thus, also not watched Back Cover.

I am definitely not one of those fans that needs everything spelled out for me, and moments like the previously mentioned Castle Town speech felt raw even though we didn't experience it personally, because we know through simple deduction that she had to have walked through the town to get to the castle. Just like we don't experience the NPCs, dogs / cats and all - we know they exist in the world, they are just absent from our gameplay. It was a tender moment.

However, there are moments when with clearly excessive force the series is knotted together. I really HATED the scene behind the door to Kingdom Hearts. So, now Aqua's been conveniently planted there to save Riku / King Mickey (via Hefty-bagging up Shadows), and these base creatures are somehow calculated enough to suck her through the pinhole door back to Destiny Islands. It was all a freaking reach, and kindof hard to watch in a laughing at kindof way thb, lol.

Some other minor swings and misses for me were with exploration and design. Hey! Here's an opportunity to make our Disney worlds a little spooky in the Realm of Darkness. Except, they look clean cut as ever (although Enchanted Dominion completely lost it's angular source material that BBS nailed). Boring. We spend time in Castle of Dreams / Castle Town rebuilding the road to the castle, only to not investigate it. How incredible would it have been to see that glowing interior infested with a haze of darkness? I also actually warmed up to the new graphic style, even though I still prefer the overall look of the characters as they were. It feels like it's going in the right direction, but it's just not quite perfected. Mickey still just doesn't look like Mickey 100% here.

Plot-wise, I was basically fine up until the point where Aqua deadpan, unenthusiastically meets Mickey. Being traumatized by the darkness or not, seeing the friendly King, or at least a being you're able to interact with without being compelled to destroy it - what a relief that should have been! Also, rewind. What was with the last scene in Enchanted Dominion. Again, don't need everything to be "officially answered", but to speculate a Darkside (somehow commanded by Xehanort?) picked up Aqua and tangible Not!Ven(?) and then (I can only assume) casually dropped them off / Mickey rescued her / she spent her remaining energy to free herself, did I get that right?

It's not easy being a a fan, as far as voicing criticisms, but I still enjoyed the vast majority of the game.

To end on a random, positive note: I loved how Sora poked fun at the fact he's had to start from scratch time and time over again. It was very meta, and that last scene with SDG blasting off to Olympus was eeeverything I had hoped for, camp and cheese and all.