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Anyone else irked a bit at 0.2?



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palizinhas

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I don't know if I saw a photo I'd automatically think of a guy I saw once ten years ago. Even if they thought "Um. This looks like that boy we met in Yen Sid's tower!" there is no way they'd remember Ventus' face and hair enough to realize they look exactly identical.

Plus Donald and Goofy didn't recognize Yen Sid's tower. Because he "redecorated". I don't really trust their memory.
 

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Although I might've been a bit tough on Donald and Goofy, they both should be able to draw the connection between Ventus and Roxas. They encountered Ventus for long enough in BBS to at least remember his face, after all, they did entrust Mickey's life with him. And in terms of seeing Roxas, Donald and Goofy saw the photo of the Twilight Town gang with Roxas in it after the 1000 Heartless battle. I'm sure at some point, SOMEONE would have connected the dots.

Sorry if it looks like I'm bashing Mickey, Donald, and Goofy <3 But with the evidence that I added above, it just seems obvious that the Ven-Roxas connection was glossed over by Square. It just feels like they'll conveniently 'remember' seeing the photo and what Ventus looks like when it's easiest for Square.
What evidence? They saw Ventus for 30 minutes max, if at all. Would you remember a stranger when you see a picture of someone resembling that person (they don't even study the pic) after 11 years? I know I wouldn't, and if you do, your memory must be amazing.

palizinhas said:
I don't know if I saw a photo I'd automatically think of a guy I saw once ten years ago. Even if they thought "Um. This looks like that boy we met in Yen Sid's tower!" there is no way they'd remember Ventus' face and hair enough to realize they look exactly identical.
This right here.
 

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The fact that they didn't recognise Yen Sid's tower confirms that there's an obvious plot hole concerning Donald and Goofy's memory, and just goes to show how sloppy Square can get with plot consistency :')

The "oh they forgot" excuse just doesn't cut it for me. The Twilight Town photo is a motif in KH2, and there's even an instance where Goofy brings up the photo upon returning to Twilight Town the third time, saying "Gawrsh, aren't we here because of the picture". I'm sure, that after all that reflection and hard thinking, it would've clicked AT SOME POINT that "oh gawrsh, I think I recognize this hazel haired fella". It's just so hard to believe when the only rhetoric is "oh but they forgot" :')

Edit: The reason I think Donald and Goofy should be able to remember Ventus is simply because he played a pretty significant role in their lives. The entire series is based on the impact people have on the hearts around them, and why we should value friendship and comradery.

Even though he was only their for 30 minutes, i'm pretty sure that they'd remember the guy who offered to save their king's life. Like if they just walked passed him on the street, that'd be a completely different story, but the fact is he wasn't just a passing thought.
 
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palizinhas

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Then we blame Naminé and move on with our lives. The plot inconsistency is hardly the characters' fault, so there is not really a reason to... Blame them for it. Plot inconsistency HAPPENS in franchises. Having a hard stance against that is the same thing as having an issue with retcons. It's pretty much inevitable.
 

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Although I might've been a bit tough on Donald and Goofy, they both should be able to draw the connection between Ventus and Roxas. They encountered Ventus for long enough in BBS to at least remember his face, after all, they did entrust Mickey's life with him. And in terms of seeing Roxas, Donald and Goofy saw the photo of the Twilight Town gang with Roxas in it after the 1000 Heartless battle. I'm sure at some point, SOMEONE would have connected the dots.


And sorry if I was unclear, but I didn't mean to suggest that Yen Sid knew that Ven was inside Sora the entire time because you're right, that'd be a plot hole. I was referring to after the Re: Coded secret ending, it'd be a nice plot twist if Yen Sid had orchestrated the Mark of Mastery exam just to inadvertently awaken Ven's heart - because of the information Mickey gave him.


Sorry if it looks like I'm bashing Mickey, Donald, and Goofy <3 But with the evidence that I added above, it just seems obvious that the Ven-Roxas connection was glossed over by Square. It just feels like they'll conveniently 'remember' seeing the photo and what Ventus looks like when it's easiest for Square.
And why o why should they? It has been ten years since BBS and both Donald and Goofy had much on their plates in the meantime. Mickey and Yen Sid were the only ones trying to find the BBS Trio, D & G weren't involved.

Yea, and when they saw that photo it did not ring a bell in either Donald or Goofy, proving that they have forgotten the details about Ven's face.
KH 2 said:
Goofy: Gawrsh, it's the gang from Twilight Town. There's Hayner, Pence,
Olette...and, uh, um...

Sora: Roxas.

Donald: You know him?

Sora: No... The name just popped into my head... This is Roxas.
It's Sora who gives them the name, which is obviously due to Roxas being inside him, but there's nothing about Ven from Donald's and Goofy's side, which is neither unusual after ten whole years nor something to blame them for since no matter what importance that one meeting during BBS had, they had really no actual deeper interaction or relationship-building with Ven. Heck, Goofy couldn't even get his name right.

Also remember we're talking about Donald and Goofy here, both characters are not exactly paragons of perceptiveness nor are they portrayed as having a photographic memory.
It's literally the same thing as with Axel/Lea in this regard.

The thing is though why would Yen Sid want such a thing? Why try to wake Ven's heart while leaving Sora totally in the dark about everything?
In fact, trying to prematurely wake Ven's heart and in conjunction use that to damage and weaken Sora's heart (due to it being exposed to Ven's sorrow and pain) was the plan of Xehanort, so Yen Sid wanting to do the same would cast a very bad light on him.

It is undeniable that Ventus needs to be saved, but I'd say it has to be done in a way that doesn't cause serious harm to Sora in the process (not to mention that Ven himself surely wouldn't want to be saved in a way that is detrimental to the guy who already saved him twice and with who he formed such a close bond with).

The Ventus-Roxas connection certainly wasn't glossed over by Square as there are those who saw Roxas more than once and personally met and interacted with him that did "connect the dots", most prominently among them Xigbar (who teases and trolls the hell out of it during Days both in-game and in the reports, partly in KH 2 and also in DDD), Xemnas and of course Xehanort himself.

Mickey never saw or met Roxas until the memories shown by Data-Naminé, that's also indicated by how he reacts when the images of Roxas and Axel come up, and that's where he finally realized that there is a connection at all.
In the letter he writes to SRK he also stresses that he only realized that the truth is connected to them (or in this particular case to Sora himself) recently.

Donald and Goofy only had a single meeting with Ventus ten years ago and didn't really bond with him so deep that it would have had a lasting impact over such a long time.

None of the "good guys" who actually do have a deeper bond with Ventus get any contact or meeting with Roxas to be able to connect the dots earlier than Mickey does in Re: Coded.

Sora himself doesn't count obviously as while Naminé describes the connection/bond between Ventus and him as "very special" Sora so far only "met" Ventus metaphysically twice, once when he was a newborn heart and once while he was 4 years old (and Ven in the form of a glowing heart), so that he doesn't immediately "connect the dots" when seeing/meeting Roxas is also plenty reasonable.
 

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The fact that they didn't recognise Yen Sid's tower confirms that there's an obvious plot hole concerning Donald and Goofy's memory, and just goes to show how sloppy Square can get with plot consistency :')

The "oh they forgot" excuse just doesn't cut it for me. The Twilight Town photo is a motif in KH2, and there's even an instance where Goofy brings up the photo upon returning to Twilight Town the third time, saying "Gawrsh, aren't we here because of the picture". I'm sure, that after all that reflection and hard thinking, it would've clicked AT SOME POINT that "oh gawrsh, I think I recognize this hazel haired fella". It's just so hard to believe when the only rhetoric is "oh but they forgot" :')

Edit: The reason I think Donald and Goofy should be able to remember Ventus is simply because he played a pretty significant role in their lives. The entire series is based on the impact people have on the hearts around them, and why we should value friendship and comradery.

Even though he was only their for 30 minutes, i'm pretty sure that they'd remember the guy who offered to save their king's life. Like if they just walked passed him on the street, that'd be a completely different story, but the fact is he wasn't just a passing thought.
Why is it so hard to believe? People forget, it's normal. Nobody remembers everyone they ever saw.
Ven didn't play a significant role in their lives, no. They certainly didn't bond with him or anything.
Well, yeah, maybe they would remember someone offering to save their king's live 10 years ago, but they wouldn't remember his voice, his look, the way he talks, etc. They'd probably remember the offer, but not everything else.
 

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Yeah it seems fair when you put it that way. I guess the only reason the connection didn't click is because Donald and Goofy are thick as bricks. If you take into account their shortcomings, yeah it stands to reason that they would conveniently forgot about Ventus.

But honestly, if it were any other character, I'm sure the link would've been made. I'm sure that if Mickey ever met Roxas before seeing him in the Re: Coded ending, we'd be a lot closer to finding Ven.

And just as you said, Xigbar/Braig met Ventus for about the same amount of time that Donald and Goofy met him for. So yeah, I guess at the end of the day it really just comes down to a matter of intellect. AKA Donald and Goofy are dumb af case closed <3
 

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Did they inform Sora about Ven before the MoM, though? Yen Sid seems to imply in 0.2 that they told him SOMETHING, but Sora didn't seem to know about the whole Ventus thing in some moments of DDD. Maybe Yen Sid and Mickey aren't actually sure if Ven is inside Sora, but I feel like Sora should know more of the subject than "there is a connection between you and him".
 

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TBH I would not be surprised if Donald and Goofy encountered Ven in KH3, and just went "HEY AREN'T YOU THAT FELLA FROM DAT ERRR 10 YEARS AGO?"

If that ever happens I will honestly cry :')
 

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Did they inform Sora about Ven before the MoM, though? Yen Sid seems to imply in 0.2 that they told him SOMETHING, but Sora didn't seem to know about the whole Ventus thing in some moments of DDD. Maybe Yen Sid and Mickey aren't actually sure if Ven is inside Sora, but I feel like Sora should know more of the subject than "there is a connection between you and him".
I never said that Sora ever knew anything about what Ven looked or sounded like, I'm talking about the characters that actually met him in a non-metaphysical sense. Sora has never physically met Ventus and would probably call him Roxas upon 'meeting' him the first time UNLESS his heart 'tells him' that his name is Ventus.
 

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Yeah it seems fair when you put it that way. I guess the only reason the connection didn't click is because Donald and Goofy are thick as bricks. If you take into account their shortcomings, yeah it stands to reason that they would conveniently forgot about Ventus.

But honestly, if it were any other character, I'm sure the link would've been made. I'm sure that if Mickey ever met Roxas before seeing him in the Re: Coded ending, we'd be a lot closer to finding Ven.

And just as you said, Xigbar/Braig met Ventus for about the same amount of time that Donald and Goofy met him for. So yeah, I guess at the end of the day it really just comes down to a matter of intellect. AKA Donald and Goofy are dumb af case closed <3
No, case not closed (except if we just agree to disagree) because they are not 'dumb af'. Let's say Kairi met him as a child and they had a conversation etc. and then she'd see a pic of Roxas. She wouldn't remember him either. NOBODY would, except those who the plot wants to.

Braig/Xigbar actively lived with Roxas and was 'pretty much' the antagonist of Ven/Ven's friends, so he'd definitely remember him.
It just feels like you're complaining for the sake of it and in turn calling DG dumb for the sake of it.
 

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I never said that Sora ever knew anything about what Ven looked or sounded like, I'm talking about the characters that actually met him in a non-metaphysical sense. Sora has never physically met Ventus and would probably call him Roxas upon 'meeting' him the first time UNLESS his heart 'tells him' that his name is Ventus.
That question was actually completely unrelated to your point. I'm just wondering now if Sora's been informed on the situation since Re:coded, as the discussion going on made me remember Mickey and Yen Sid do have their suspicions there now.
 

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No, case not closed (except if we just agree to disagree) because they are not 'dumb af'. Let's say Kairi met him as a child and they had a conversation etc. and then she'd see a pic of Roxas. She wouldn't remember him either. NOBODY would, except those who the plot wants to.

Braig/Xigbar actively lived with Roxas and was 'pretty much' the antagonist of Ven/Ven's friends, so he'd definitely remember him.
It just feels like you're complaining for the sake of it and in turn calling DG dumb for the sake of it.
Hahahha nononononono I'm not hating on DG for the sake of it I love my boys ❤ I just honestly think that their mild lack of intelligence led to them forgetting about Ven. And I can definitely accept that argument. But then that begs the question, how can Xigbar remember Ven even though he only encountered him for half an hour or so. The answer to that question is exactly what you said, they were enemies and Xigbar ended up living with Roxas in TWTNW. So obviously that's how Xigbar remembers Ven, through Roxas, and I agree with you in that regard.

But then comes the next question. Who else spent round about half an hour with Ven and then ended up living with Roxas in TWTNW? Lea that's who. Albeit Ven wasn't Lea's enemy, his relationship with Ven mirrors Xigbar's relationship with Ven/Roxas.

So with all that, my final question. Taking into consideration what you've said, I can agree that Donald and Goofy are incapable of remembering Ven, but how come Lea does not remember him whilst Xigbar does?

(Before anyone responds to that, a possible answer could be that Xehanort's heart within Xigbar is causing him to see Roxas the way that Xehanort remembers Ven. Idk, maybe?)

That question was actually completely unrelated to your point. I'm just wondering now if Sora's been informed on the situation since Re:coded, as the discussion going on made me remember Mickey and Yen Sid do have their suspicions there now.
Oh my bad, sorry for that ❤ and personally, no I don't think Sora has been told. Yen Sid has a history of keeping him in the dark just in case he attempts "to stage a reckless rescue mission". I think every one else has been informed, and Sora has just been left to "follow his heart" - because that tends to work more often than not ������
 
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Hey, please try not to double post. :) Instead, you can edit your post to include things you might have forgotten to talk about in your original post! :D

Infamita said:
So with all that, my final question. Taking into consideration what you've said, I can agree that Donald and Goofy are incapable of remembering Ven, but how come Lea does not remember him whilst Xigbar does?
Isa and Lea only met Ventus for around 15 minutes ten years ago. Plus, Isa points out that Lea does kind stuff stuff all the time. Finding random people and trying to make himself a part of their memories. Ventus isn't anyone special to him. Also, I feel like you're kinda comparing apples to oranges here. Just because A remembers person C, B doesn't have to remember C... if you get what I mean. Though the question is certainly justified.
 

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But honestly, if it were any other character, I'm sure the link would've been made. I'm sure that if Mickey ever met Roxas before seeing him in the Re: Coded ending, we'd be a lot closer to finding Ven.

And just as you said, Xigbar/Braig met Ventus for about the same amount of time that Donald and Goofy met him for. So yeah, I guess at the end of the day it really just comes down to a matter of intellect. AKA Donald and Goofy are dumb af case closed <3
It really depends on having more than just an one-time contact or "seeing from afar" thing in play. As the example brought up with Kairi, for the "link" to be made it would have to have be a character who actually has a sort of deeper bond/connection with Ventus, and those are arguably only characters who either a) aren't around anymore by the time Roxas is a thing (Aqua, Terra, Eraqus, possibly Zack or Hercules) or b) do not have any (or not enough) connection and meetings with Roxas. (Mickey, arguably also Hercules as he never truly sees him either).

Xigbar/Braig is a different pair of shoes mainly because of a) he's working with Xehanort, b) got privy to Ventus' apparently very memorable death glare (which D & G didn't get) and c) is meeting and interacting with Roxas on an almost daily base.

Even Axel/Lea did not remember anything despite being with Roxas almost every day too, and why is that?
Because just like Donald and Goofy Lea only met Ventus for a very short time and forgot about it ten years later.

I'm somewhat getting the impression that you're giving too much in-universe importance to these short scenes in BBS which were nothing but fanservice from one end to the other primarily and secondarily serve for Ventus to either learn an aesop or his next destination. The "physical" link of the BBS trio (as opposed to the metaphysical one of Ventus/Sora and Terra/Riku, Kairi and Aqua do not really have a true "connection" in the usual sense of leaving Kairi out or as an afterthought) is Mickey, he's the one who befriended at least both Aqua and Ventus and who is, as shown by the scenes in the white throneroom in DDD, still bitter about not being able to save them from their grisly fates.
And this link IS followed further in the series by having Mickey learn in Re: Coded this crucial piece of information that may give him a hint as to where Ventus' heart is.

Sora has never physically met Ventus and would probably call him Roxas upon 'meeting' him the first time UNLESS his heart 'tells him' that his name is Ventus.
If Riku can tell them apart in less than five seconds without having a significant connection to either Roxas or Ventus I'd say Sora would not have much of a problem in this regard since he's closely connected to both of them.

I'm just wondering now if Sora's been informed on the situation since Re:coded, as the discussion going on made me remember Mickey and Yen Sid do have their suspicions there now.
As far as we know Yen Sid and Mickey did not tell Sora anything more specific than what we actually witness in the mementos in Dream Drop Distance.
Had they outright told him that the heart of another person, in this case Ventus, is sleeping directly inside him, the manipulatons and confusing statements of Xemnas, Xigbar and Young Xehanort would not have had such an impact on Sora and he probably wouldn't have been duped so thorughly.

I.e. when Xemnas comes with the "box's label matching the content stuff" in the Grid Sora could have just countered with "I know I have another, injured heart inside me that needs to be saved, and I'll work towards this myself, so your petty mindgames won't work."
The whole "your heart's a prison"-shtick from Young Xehanort probably would not have worked at all had Sora known about Ventus' more "direct" connection to him beforehand.
Or it would have at least made for a potentially more interesting back-and-forth banter between YX and Sora instead of the latter just being the confused puppy.

But of course this wouldn't have had the same "dramatic" and "mysterious" effect in terms of plot demand.

As to why Mickey and Yen Sid didn't take Sora aside for a more "personal" briefing on such a potentially huge special issue one can only speculate.
They were certainly not expecting Xehanort to interfere with the exam, that much the game made clear, so maybe Mickey planned to brief Sora on this after the exam is over and done with which was drafted in the first place to let Sora and Riku learn the powers needed to awaken sleeping/lost hearts.
This would make sense with the recent development in 0.2 when Yen Sid explains to Riku why they haven't spoken about Aqua beforehand, because then if not Riku Sora certainly would embark on an unprepared and reckless, instinct driven rescue mission.

Based on this, knowing Sora one might guess how things would(or will) turn out once Sora finally learns what the whole deal about Ventus is and since it has somewhat of a personal drift to it his reaction might turn out even more extreme (the way he reacts when witnessing Roxas' torment firsthand by seeing his memories in DDD may already be a sort of appetizer to it).

On the other hand it may of course also be that Yen Sid and Mickey simply neglected to tell Sora due to plot reasons (aka Xehanort's plan must again play out nearly flawlessly thus the plot needs important information withheld from Sora. 0.2 punches almost in the very same wound again by having Sora arrive only after everything is said and done. Riku and Kairi get some important info, but Sora again misses out on it).
 

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Sorry my bad, I'll make sure to contain everything in one post <3

Hey, please try not to double post. :) Instead, you can edit your post to include things you might have forgotten to talk about in your original post! :D


Isa and Lea only met Ventus for around 15 minutes ten years ago. Plus, Isa points out that Lea does kind stuff stuff all the time. Finding random people and trying to make himself a part of their memories. Ventus isn't anyone special to him. Also, I feel like you're kinda comparing apples to oranges here. Just because A remembers person C, B doesn't have to remember C... if you get what I mean. Though the question is certainly justified.
Yeah I guess I am comparing apples to oranges, but it all just seems too good to be true. It's too convenient that person A and B forgot all about Ven but character C seems to remember everything. There's just too many holes in my opinion.

Really though, it doesn't matter that much if Donald and Goofy can't remember Ven. It's just infuriating knowing that the key to saving Ven has been right in front of everyone the whole time, yet no one but the bad guys noticed :( To me if the bad guys can connect the dots, can't the good guys do the same :')

(Btw I'm sorry for taking this thread so far off course)

I'm somewhat getting the impression that you're giving too much in-universe importance to these short scenes in BBS which were nothing but fanservice from one end to the other primarily and secondarily serve for Ventus to either learn an aesop or his next destination.
Yeah I guess you're right. I should just take those fan service moments with a grain of salt.
 
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It really depends on having more than just an one-time contact or "seeing from afar" thing in play. As the example brought up with Kairi, for the "link" to be made it would have to have be a character who actually has a sort of deeper bond/connection with Ventus, and those are arguably only characters who either a) aren't around anymore by the time Roxas is a thing (Aqua, Terra, Eraqus, possibly Zack or Hercules) or b) do not have any (or not enough) connection and meetings with Roxas. (Mickey, arguably also Hercules as he never truly sees him either).

Xigbar/Braig is a different pair of shoes mainly because of a) he's working with Xehanort, b) got privy to Ventus' apparently very memorable death glare (which D & G didn't get) and c) is meeting and interacting with Roxas on an almost daily base.

Even Axel/Lea did not remember anything despite being with Roxas almost every day too, and why is that?
Because just like Donald and Goofy Lea only met Ventus for a very short time and forgot about it ten years later.

I'm somewhat getting the impression that you're giving too much in-universe importance to these short scenes in BBS which were nothing but fanservice from one end to the other primarily and secondarily serve for Ventus to either learn an aesop or his next destination. The "physical" link of the BBS trio (as opposed to the metaphysical one of Ventus/Sora and Terra/Riku, Kairi and Aqua do not really have a true "connection" in the usual sense of leaving Kairi out or as an afterthought) is Mickey, he's the one who befriended at least both Aqua and Ventus and who is, as shown by the scenes in the white throneroom in DDD, still bitter about not being able to save them from their grisly fates.
And this link IS followed further in the series by having Mickey learn in Re: Coded this crucial piece of information that may give him a hint as to where Ventus' heart is.



If Riku can tell them apart in less than five seconds without having a significant connection to either Roxas or Ventus I'd say Sora would not have much of a problem in this regard since he's closely connected to both of them.



As far as we know Yen Sid and Mickey did not tell Sora anything more specific than what we actually witness in the mementos in Dream Drop Distance.
Had they outright told him that the heart of another person, in this case Ventus, is sleeping directly inside him, the manipulatons and confusing statements of Xemnas, Xigbar and Young Xehanort would not have had such an impact on Sora and he probably wouldn't have been duped so thorughly.

I.e. when Xemnas comes with the "box's label matching the content stuff" in the Grid Sora could have just countered with "I know I have another, injured heart inside me that needs to be saved, and I'll work towards this myself, so your petty mindgames won't work."
The whole "your heart's a prison"-shtick from Young Xehanort probably would not have worked at all had Sora known about Ventus' more "direct" connection to him beforehand.
Or it would have at least made for a potentially more interesting back-and-forth banter between YX and Sora instead of the latter just being the confused puppy.

But of course this wouldn't have had the same "dramatic" and "mysterious" effect in terms of plot demand.

As to why Mickey and Yen Sid didn't take Sora aside for a more "personal" briefing on such a potentially huge special issue one can only speculate.
They were certainly not expecting Xehanort to interfere with the exam, that much the game made clear, so maybe Mickey planned to brief Sora on this after the exam is over and done with which was drafted in the first place to let Sora and Riku learn the powers needed to awaken sleeping/lost hearts.
This would make sense with the recent development in 0.2 when Yen Sid explains to Riku why they haven't spoken about Aqua beforehand, because then if not Riku Sora certainly would embark on an unprepared and reckless, instinct driven rescue mission.

Based on this, knowing Sora one might guess how things would(or will) turn out once Sora finally learns what the whole deal about Ventus is and since it has somewhat of a personal drift to it his reaction might turn out even more extreme (the way he reacts when witnessing Roxas' torment firsthand by seeing his memories in DDD may already be a sort of appetizer to it).

On the other hand it may of course also be that Yen Sid and Mickey simply neglected to tell Sora due to plot reasons (aka Xehanort's plan must again play out nearly flawlessly thus the plot needs important information withheld from Sora. 0.2 punches almost in the very same wound again by having Sora arrive only after everything is said and done. Riku and Kairi get some important info, but Sora again misses out on it).
See, that's kinda what I thought, but it seems pretty stupid to me regardless. Mickey is outright TOLD that if Sora tried to take on the memories of those connected to him when he was unprepared he wouldn't be able to handle it. Yes, they thought the exam was safe, but Sora still had the right to that information considering it directly affected him, differently from the Aqua thing, and Yen Sid and Mickey should have told him right away.

And Yen Sid apparently hasn't told him NOW either, and if they had any doubts on it, Riku probably cleared those up when he relied what happened inside Sora when he got the data from Ansem.
 

Precursor Mar

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Really, guys? Justifying obvious plot holes with "hurr they forgot"?

No, people don't just forget in this series. This is Kingdom Hearts. A series where people remember things that didn't even happen to them.
 

Chuman

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Really, guys? Justifying obvious plot holes with "hurr they forgot"?

No, people don't just forget in this series. This is Kingdom Hearts. A series where people remember things that didn't even happen to them.
You seem to forget about when EVERYONE forgot about sora due to namine's meddling. I just try not to think about little plot discrepencies like memory unless they directly contradict canon. Also I've forgotten, like, months at a time so if it can happen to me then maybe cartoon dog done goof'd.
 

kirabook

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I like to pretend Donald and Goofy were surprised at the tower purely because they didn't expect to be there by travelling on a ghost train from Twilight Town.

Another easy fix for that would have been to put the Mysterious Tower in an actual place somewhere else that looks different in Birth by Sleep and implying Yen Sid moved it somewhere else inbetween Birth by Sleep and KH2.

But reusing assets is easier.
 
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