yeah true launchpad but it could explain what the PHI music remix was working on though plus there also promise to the Shibuya gang as well
kh3 hopes?
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Not re-negotiating your contractual agreement is a darkness that even the Heartless cannot fathom.
I was really shocked to learn that many people took Sora and Neku's promise at heart and are clamoring for a TWEWY world.
I'm not criticizing the enthusiasm, but I always took them as just another Square cameo. It's like meeting Vivi or the Gullwings for me, or Pence's Dog Street sign.
I mean, I guess I can see why them being there and being something different than Final Fantasy got some hopes up, but I also hope that was a one and done kind of thing and not something etched in stone.
​and I also really didn't like them all that much in DDD either
Even taking the fact aside that a whole bunch of the drama happening in all relationships in KH comes from the characters generally being unable to communicate their issues properly (and the other characters actually listening), in this particular case Axel did contemplate sharing things with Saix in another one of the secret reports, but decided against it because he did "not feel like it anymore".
Thing is that between the scenes shown in BBS and Days there is a whole decade we know absolutely nothing about. Them being "good friends" for the few scenes in BBS and not anymore during Days hints at severe events in that time period that somehow changed their relationship already before the audience gets to view them again.
During Days Saix only uses the "memory" of their friendship to try and manipulate Axel into doing what he wants while showing the range of empathy equal to a plain rock from the start, with Axel going along until contact to both Sora and Roxas makes him realize what's happening and stepping out, both because he's done with accepting such treatment and because he wants to protect his new friends.
This might be the reason why Xemnas was unconcerned with Saix and Axel also having "treacherous" designs, because he knew of Saix' nort seed and that his shitty attitude would eventually drive him and Axel fully apart. Roxas and Sora "changing" Axel and opening up the path for a possible regrowing heart that would drive them apart faster was in this scenario even a boon for Xemnas and that's why he simply allowed things to go on as they did.
He knew Xehanort has a backup plan and even if his own plans fail (which they did later in KH 2) he would still get at least one fully functional vessel in the form of Saix/Isa.
All of the gathered darknesses in that scene vanished in the same way and Nomura confirmed that not all of them were time travelers, so this is not an indicator that can be used.
Well, the explanations Days gave off actually does create a constant characterization of Saix/Isa, but with his KH 2 character and with that it does add up.
So it's less of being a plot device to be antagonistic to RAX but to weave continuity with KH 2's characterization of him.
I certainly agree with the assessment that their "friendship" wasn't truly one anymore even when we first see them in Days, since as I said above, Saix practically only brings it up when he feels he has to guilt-trip Axel into carrying out his orders.
Days came out before BBS though and between the two are ten years worth of events we don't know anything about, although the nort-seed would be an easy (and possibly cheap) explanation, I'm positive any possible explanation would fall into this time period anyways.
The Heart experiments (and Isa losing his heart) are surely another possible explanation in the vein that possibly quite some mental damage was done there, although this of course excuses/vindicates none of the shitty behaviour and antagonism he portrayed towards Roxas and Xion or Sora & co. during KH 2.
One has to take note however how long it takes Axel to realize how much Saix had changed and he only found the courage/determination to ditch him after he already has had plenty of contact with Roxas and Sora.
Because DDD dropped in the middle of what looked like a TWEWY revival at Square Enix. They were making albums, re-releasing the game, making a new gacha game... it felt like they were very close to announcing a sequel and it would have been easy to drop Sora in that as a cameo.
Tokyo is my favorite place in the world and I have spent countless hours in Shibuya. So yeah, I'd like to visit in Kingdom Hearts III. I hope the rumors are true. Although, San Fransokyo is already so thematically close to Tokyo... so who really knows?
I've always been on the side saying there should be more Square in Kingdom Hearts. Original stuff aside, the games are overwhelmingly Disney. I'm happy Pixar is being included this time around. I've always thought Pixar films > Disney films. The only movie from the KH series so far that I've been able to sit through so far is The Nightmare Before Christmas (don't kill me).
I've always been on the side saying there should be more Square in Kingdom Hearts. Original stuff aside, the games are overwhelmingly Disney. I'm happy Pixar is being included this time around. I've always thought Pixar films > Disney films. The only movie from the KH series so far that I've been able to sit through so far is The Nightmare Before Christmas (don't kill me).
Yeah, I think casting the more fully fleshed out characterization of Saix presented between Days and KH2 against a cameo spot in BBS and trying to formulate an argument about what does and doesn't add up with full knowledge of the significant time gap between these entries is precarious. I realize everyone has a different standard for suspension of disbelief, but it isn't unbelievable to me that a person might adapt their persona to a persistent environment of cold antagonism such as that of the Organization as a matter of ensuring their own survival and/or intentions. By all accounts, Axel did this as well, and it informs most of his behavior in CoM before he realizes even a Nobody can aspire to being something more than an empty shell through his trinity with Roxas & Xion and those essential spiritual recalls to his human continuity. It's not even as though BBS expands on Isa as a character in any meaningful way: our strongest points of reference for Isa's personality and position remain Days/KH2, wherein his real agenda and history is intended to remain obscure in order to provide enigma and a thread to follow up on down the line (i.e. in KH3).
That said, add my voice to the list of people who definitely want to see this explored properly in KH3. The Saix/Axel conflict makes for an easy justification to dig into the construction of the original Organization, since we're already invested in finding out what happened between them, and whatever was happening in their periphery almost certainly played a part in that so we could even get some helpful context for the other Organization Nobodies/Somebodies who seem likely to make an appearance in the game. Plus, it could help those poor souls who are playing KH3 as their entry title gain an understanding of what the Organization was and who its main players were, and what differentiates it from the new Organization.
Sure, but then I'm curious as to why they cared to keep Saix consistent with his KH2 personality in Days, but not in BBS. Of course, a lot can happen in 10 years (and certainly did), but if all that is presented not through actions but in merely two pictures of the same person who actnothing alike, it still makes me wonder what Square wanted to show in BBS. Did they feel the need to "prove" that Isa and Lea used to be friends? If so, I feel like the way they did it was terrible, because it was meant to show Ventus that friendships can last and how good it is to know there's someone who's always there for you - which Isa and Lea are the exact worst example for so far, even though of course Ventus wasn't around to find that out.
What I mean to say is: The way it was presented, I feel like it would've been better to not show Isa and Lea (or at least their super-bff-mega-friendship-"we do everything together and we have a big plan"-story) at all in BBS, as I don't feel like it answered any questions. Hell, if anything, it made me wonder why Xigbar was able to draw a connection between Roxas and Ventus while Axel wasn't (unless I missed something, which is of course possible).
It's not even that Xigbar had more business with Ventus - because he didn't. Aqua and Terra, yes, but not Ventus.
The way things are currently going, I'd bet on the story really just going the very cheap nort-seed way to justify what happened to Saix. We already have Riku smelling darkness, so why not Lea/Axel smelling bad old men invading the body of his best friend and feeling that deep down, he's still Isa and I must save him!!!!!!111111111111?
I mean even though Axel doesn't ditch Saix from the get-go, they still don't seem like friends in Days, even in the beginning. I didn't even feel like they used to be friends, it was more fighting whenever rare times they took the time to exchange a few words. But the game was so damn centered around Xion that I probably shouldn't wonder why they didn't have time to show more of the other members' relationships and personalities.
You answered your own question there: it was to show-- or rather, confirm-- that a lot changed in those 10 years. That's all. Really, this is a consistent trajectory for their characters: Days lays the groundwork by showing us a period in time when their relationship has already dissolved into manipulative formalities with the strong implication that there used to be more between them and BBS reaffirms that by showing a brief snapshot of what it looked like when they were closer and actually believed in their friendship-- KH3 is left to fill in the gap, and I do believe that was fully intentional. Saix's role is supplementary: his significance corresponds to his relationships and ambitions involving other, more important characters (like Axel and Xehanort), and we're only meant to be invested in him to the extent that his story sheds light on or clarifies theirs.
Not if you recognize this as intentional, such that when a player with knowledge of the other titles plays BBS they'll know what becomes of Isa and Lea. That's even reflected by their final moments looking to the castle with all their hopes and aspirations: we know what happens to them, so the scene doesn't play as a happy one, but one of reflection. That jives just fine with the entire motif of BBS, because we also know that the story for TAV doesn't end well, that it's a tragedy of errors which ends in their triad's disintegration and an uncertain future. For Ven, that moment resonates because Lea and Isa are friends when he meets them: and for all we know, their friendship may be restored in KH3, bringing that notion full circle. Also, it ties all their plots together under the banner of Xehanort's antagonism as a symbol of destruction: whatever happened to Isa, I think it should be obvious that Xehanort's influence had something to do with it, or else he wouldn't show signs of carrying a piece of his heart. That doesn't mean Xehanort's seed is the cause of his actions, rather that Isa for whatever reason was susceptible or vulnerable to being corrupted by him-- or that his agenda runs even deeper, and being a vessel for Xehanort is part of it.
At the time of BBS, Xigbar was already being folded into Xehanort's larger ambitions, and so he (Xigbar) has a point of reference for who Ventus is which Lea doesn't when they meet. It's not about the amount of screen time they share together but their respective roles in the narrative: Xigbar meets Ventus knowing he's a Keyblade wielder and what that means in terms of his own agenda, whereas Lea meets Ven as some random blonde kid with whom he shared a simple playfight and some nice words. The scene still sets up some thematic stuff but it makes total sense that Axel wouldn't have a conscious recall of Ven when looking at Roxas, whereas Xigbar has a specific and personal reason he does so.
Like I said in my other post, YMMV, but the concept of a friendship which is shaken to its foundations and bears no resemblance to its former appearance is echoed in other dynamics throughout KH: the autopsy may be non-linear in format but it isn't at all outside of the series' usual thematic stomping grounds. Again, Saix is a secondary character: he was a secondary antagonist in KH2 intended to provide a source of conflict for Sora and test his humanity and his role in Days is, well, to provide a source of conflict for Axel and test his humanity. In Days, it's not a question of what's essential to Xion's story, but of what's essential to Axel's.
I guess I'm just not okay with Saix's "importance" throughout the series, because I feel that even if he's not a primary antagonist, he had enough relevance to get a bit more than being the "evil bystander" in Days AND 3D that only exists to shape Axel's character further.
Of course KH3 could give this a proper, understandable ending, but that's like saying "Kairi might become useful in KH3". It doesn't change the fact that, so far, it hasn't been treated the way it should have in my eyes.
And, well, I guess I would have welcomed for BBS to dwell in slightly different themes than "look, Xehanort ruins friendships" for once. The whole game deals with him playing the plothole-card, and I would have liked to see something that doesn't eventually tie back to him like basically the whole rest of the game.
Eh, sure, but Axel builds up a way closer bond to Roxas than Xigbar does. And I do feel that even if it's been years ago, he would recognize someone who looks the exact same as someone he met before - especially if that new person becomes one of his best friends and leads him to "feel as if he had a heart".
Yeah, but if Saix is just a source of conflict in both of these games, my point that he wasn't given the justice he deserves (even if it boils down to "welp, he wanted to see the world burn and thus neglected Axel and their friendship") because of other characters being in the focus too much still stands. In the end, it doesn't matter if it was Axel or Xion or Sora. Secondary characters deserve some development, too, and especially someone like Saix who still had some sort of significant role throughout the games.
I hear you, I just think this has all been deliberate set-up and the payoff is coming in KH3, or at least I'm keeping my fingers crossed it is. The fact that we as an audience still wonder about Saix is kind of the point imo.
I see what you mean, but I think it's different from Kairi in that she was introduced as a primary role who should have been more directly involved with the direction of the series thus far, and the dissatisfaction with her arc is more warranted. Whereas Saix was introduced from the start as this sort of enigma with a secret agenda who was furthering other character's arcs and biding his time: the obfuscation of his real purpose has felt deliberateto me, whereas with Kairi it feels neglectful.
Hmm, I dunno, I feel like that's selling it a bit short. It's true that Xehanort is the primary antagonist who sets the events of the series in motion, but it's not as though the other characters lack in agency: MX is opportunistic in that he knows how to identify and manipulate the vulnerabilities in other people to his advantage, but in the first place we have to understand where those characters are coming from and why they play into his agenda (wittingly or not). To that end, the series deals in all sorts of thematic messaging: in BBS, the concept of "friendship" itself, this narrative mainstay of the series, is deconstructed and given new perspective. TAV think their friendship is true and insoluble until it's challenged and they each realize the extent of their own naivety and how much they had taken their "bond" with one another for granted-- which is emblematic of the other coming of age elements present for each of the protagonists of that game: Aqua struggling to reconcile her graduation from apprentice to master and the authority vested in her by Eraqus, Terra coming to terms with his own power and how to wield it autonomously, Ven breaking out of the virtual prison of both mind and body erected around him by Eraqus in an effort to reclaim his own history and identity. Those are all deeply personal and self-motivated character arcs accompanied by their own thematic foundations, and the scene with Lea and Isa really seems to be similarly indicative of the idea that there's a larger story yet to be explored with them, in which Xehanort is simply the unifying factor with the core conflict of the series.
Will it be earned? I hope so. I think DDD took the Master Xehanort plot way too far, not because I was opposed to any of its fundamental ideas but because it didn't build to any of them properly: the game felt like one giant shortcut to making him seem like a villainous mastermind, and what we're left with in KH3 is a bad guy who went from sadistic and shrewd to ungodly (and unbelievable) in his predictive capacity. At this point, I can't tell if I want KH3 to just say diddly it and make him an actual god or backtrack and put him on a more realistic level. I barely even think about Xehanort if I can help it, he's just not a selling point for me in KH3 haha.
I think of it more like: I remember people I met or knew as a kid, even people I spent a lot of time with, but I remember their behaviors and their personal qualities and the things we did together, and not so much their appearance, at least not in any specific fashion. Ven may appear distinctive to us, but to Lea he's just another kid, and after 10 years I think he could very well remember having met Ven without having recollection of his exact features. I expect that Lea's memory of that moment will get jogged during KH3, likely because he and Ven will probably meet again at some point, but I'm sure it's not something he thought about consistently over the past decade. I'm sure there are meetings I had with people once or twice in my youth which I've completely forgotten about: if this was KH, coming in contact with their heart might remind me, but then Ven's heart hasn't exactly been in a position to leave voicemails.
Sure, but emphasis in these kinds of serials is really about time and place, and I feel like Saix as a character has benefited from the sort of tactical restraint placed upon his character development up until now. By playing out his role as a part of other plots, with steady signals of his own directive embedded within that, he's garnered a sort of unpredictable, wild card status. Can any of us say with real confidence that we know what he's going to do in KH3? He has the potential to really complicate the narrative, and I think sometimes delayed gratification is the best kind there is. My feeling is that Saix hadn't earned a strong focus in previous installments, but if KH3 delivers, it will definitely feel like he did.
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Actually the comparison of lasting friendships that Ventus takes from Lea-Isa and TAV would makes more sense if Saix's personality change is due to the Nort-seed-whateverwe'regoingtocallityuck or other backstory related to Xehanort, considering it was Xehanort's machinations that divided then separated TAV from one another. The implication being that Lea-Isa's friendship was destroyed for the same reasons and in a similar way.
Alexis.anagram already explained most of it very concisely so I'll try to keep it short (unusual for me, I know).
If anything it was a teaser, nothing more, something of the sort "see, he's a scumbag in the present but a decade ago he wasn't that much of one."
The same argument could be made for the other Organisation member cameos given, as we know Even/Vexen in the present as KH's answer to Professor Hojo from FF VII, a crazy scientist with no ethic or moral boundaries while in BBS he seems to be more grounded and appreciative of fellow humans.
Xaldin in the present is a manipulative schemer who deliberately sets out to ruin people's lives and sees emotions in general as a hindrance and "weakness", Dilan on the other hand seems to be a sort of the opposite with apparently caring much about Radiant Garden and willing to support Ventus against the giant Unversed, same with Aeleus/Lexaeus, although he wasn't that much of an outright "villain" in most of his present appearances.
Yea, Ventus' arc and journey after TAV's great falling out in RG was about him learning more about what friendship actually is about and broaden his view, although I agree that the whole scene thrown in with Isa and Lea doesn't do much in this regard, as arguably Olympus (Ven's interactions with Herc and Zack are golden), Deep Space and Neverland do a much better job in this regard.
I wonder if the whole thing would have been better if Nomura used the younger versions of Leon & co. instead of Isa and Lea as originally intended in this lesson for Ven. Not only could they have actually paralleled the prior TAV situation with i.e. adding young Yuffie or Aerith to the situation with Leon/Squall and Cloud, it would also have prevented the additional baggage and questions about Lea remembering Ven or not.
If one wants to be nitpicky, the whole inclusion of the Org members was nothing but fan service anyways as they could have been replaced with any Disney character or FF cameo and the intended effects for Ventus would still come out exactly the same.
Nort-seed explanation would be a typical Nomura, yep.
Correct, it is implied there once was something between them, nonetheless because of Saix invoking it every time he tries to bring Axel back into line, but nothing like it is shown in Days. By then, it is already ruined but it takes Axel a while to see and act on it.
Good point, couldn't have worded that better.
The actual plot of KH III will eventually show if this was fully intentional or not.
Agreed, although I do get sometimes the vibe that the Isa/Lea and Ventus scene wasn't really that crucial or even needed to be there beyond the obvious fan service.
Roxas and Ventus are two completely different existences so it doesn't really matter much if Lea/Axel met or knew Ventus, they don't have anything to do with each other anyways, unlike Braig/Xigbar as you pointed out.
Indeed, and it partly also serves as a reminder just how huge the effects of CoM also impacted Axel and his further story.
Most of the heavy stuff between Saix and him as well as the eventual total fallout between them was kickstarted with the events in Castle Oblivion and meeting Sora, which did change Axel which was even noticed by Roxas, who normally isn't the sharpest tool in the shed (at least in Days):
Day 72 said:
It's another example of Nomura introducing too many potentially interesting arcs and characters at once and then not delivering on the existing potential.
In order to NOT cram everything into KH III they could have at least parts of the answers included in the other titles.
After having started to read the KH 2 novel I realized even more just how much this game doesn't address that happens behind the scenes while instead focusing on meaningless Disney-filler that doesn't add to the universe building and its characters because it is detached from it.
I think what Voido means is that when almost all things that go wrong can be attributed to Xehanort either directly or indirectly, it makes him even more of a "villain sue" and lets all the other characters not look flawed (which is ok) but outright incompetent and powerless to get anything right.
BBS started it somewhat with the plot itself apparently doing deliberate cartwheels to make the "good" characters look not flawed but stupid to have Xehanort's plans fall in place and succeed almost without a hindrance and then DDD waltzes over it even more.
That's what I meant above, Xehanort is no more "just" a highly competent schemer and manipulator villain, with DDD he's become unbelievable and arguably way too powerful and prepared, making all efforts against him in the titles before KH III, be it by the BBS crew, the Ice-cream crew or the Island-trio, seem ultimatively meaningless because he counters all of it.
Heh, as said I don't even think Lea's meeting with Ventus is that important, not to mention it was probably mere 15 minutes or something. That is something someone can forget in ten years so Axel not getting a lightbulb moment when seeing Roxas is neither farfetched nor unrealistic.
I'm more wondering about why some people insist so much on reading more importance into the whole Lea/Ventus thing than there actually is.
Lea's/Axel's core connections are to Roxas/Xion and Isa while Ven's are to Terra and Aqua (and by now possibly Ephemer and Skuld, if he should eventually remember them).
Considering how much KH III has on its plate to deal with plot-wise, also regarding the Disney worlds, I wonder how much of the still open and possibly interesting resolutions it really can deliver.
The number of expository cutscenes between worlds like it was done in DDD is limited and too many flashbacks during the worlds might break the flow of the game itself.
Cramming it all into the last world again and essentially machine-gunning the audience with one wham-fact after the other is also going to be unsatisfying because then everything happens so fast and in so little margin to each other that each individual wham-moment can't be fully appreciated if one wants to keep up with the proceedings.
Things only clarified in the reports however tend to be more often overlooked.
An interesting analogy which would indeed fit thematically.
Even more so in that it again emphasizes Xehanort being the fundamental opposite of everything Sora stands for as well as TAV are implied to stand for, since on the japanese website each of the three has a title attached to them just like Sora has his "Key that connects everything".
For Terra, it is "Vast Earth Protecting Bonds", for Aqua it's "Dancing Waters Forming Bonds" and for Ventus it is "Swift Wind Returning to Bonds".
Also interesting is that each of them apparently is "designated" a certain area of bonds, Terra being someone maintaining existing bonds, Aqua being someone forming new bonds while Ventus reestablishes/rekindles old bonds.
So, maybe Xehanort has a hidden subtitle too, along the lines of "Pulsating Darkness Destroying Bonds"?
The whole discussion about Saix (which is pretty interesting to read, by the way, I'd add to it if I knew anything else to say but "give me my Isa boi pls") leads me to another wish:
Include more of the original organisation members and I mean not as Seekers of Darkness. We still don't know which ones have or haven't been revived because we don't know which world they originate from. Not that they have been reborn, their motives and intentions are unclear again because they formerly needed to oppose Sora as part of their plan to be revived and now that that's happened ... they could support him or fight him for fun or open a game shop or do whatever they see fit. For me, they don't need to be tied in directly to the narrative but I'd find it hilarious to meet some of them as cameos, seeing Somebody-Demyx in a street band or something. Maybe some of them stay in Radiant Garden, some not, I just want to see more of them.
Include more of the original organisation members and I mean not as Seekers of Darkness. We still don't know which ones have or haven't been revived because we don't know which world they originate from. Not that they have been reborn, their motives and intentions are unclear again because they formerly needed to oppose Sora as part of their plan to be revived and now that that's happened ... they could support him or fight him for fun or open a game shop or do whatever they see fit. For me, they don't need to be tied in directly to the narrative but I'd find it hilarious to meet some of them as cameos, seeing Somebody-Demyx in a street band or something. Maybe some of them stay in Radiant Garden, some not, I just want to see more of them.
small little thing that'd be nice to see, in my humble opinion, is Sora showing some kind of romantic interest, even subtly. As of now, he's a bit of an aromantic robot-- I'm not asking for a romantic subplot, but just the confirmation that our protagonist has blood coursing in his teenage veins.
I mean, Riku had a tiny moment with Shiki in DDD that was pretty explicit.
I'm also not asking for it to be hetero, that doesn't really concern me. just throw a crumb our way in terms of humanizing Sora just a bit. Zidane in FF9 is a full on horndog and it never stopped him from being a great and compelling character.
I mean, Riku had a tiny moment with Shiki in DDD that was pretty explicit.
I'm also not asking for it to be hetero, that doesn't really concern me. just throw a crumb our way in terms of humanizing Sora just a bit. Zidane in FF9 is a full on horndog and it never stopped him from being a great and compelling character.
Kingdom Hearts is already stuffed with original character as it is so Nomura has to be selective with which characters to provide a development arc to depending on the title. Saix's relevance in the series is only really important in 358/2 Days and Kingdom Hearts II because he's instrumental to key plot points of the game. He'll get development when it's necessary for the sake of the franchise. Just picking a character and saying "Hey, I like them. Give them development" doesn't work because the characters that get development have to develop the game. Lea and Isa were irrelevant for BBS plot hence why there were related to cameo status.
No, that's not true at all. You're severely underestimating the importance of the Organization XIII somebodies inclusion. Remember, Birth by Sleep depicts Kingdom Hearts 10 years before the events of the first game. In order to depict that sensation, we had to see what these characters were up to before they were involved with Xehanort's experiments. So yeah, the cameos may not have done much in terms of "character" development but it did a lot for world building development. Add to the fact that Ventus encounters the Organization XIII members and you have a Roxas-esque parallel.
Nomura said that all the former Organization XIII members will be involved with the plot and have their arcs complete. So yeah, definitely expect some development from them. Matter of fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they take the Final Fnatasy characters place in terms of over world characters tied to the story. Ienzo alone seems to know a lot and we all know the origin's of Marluxia etc. Funnily enough, this is the element of Kingdom Hearts that I'm most intrigued about. Yeah, I'm most "excited" for the new Disney worlds, but it's the re-completed members which I'm most curious of.
I second this, for a series called Kingdom Hearts, and for the material to be Disney who mastered romance narratives in animation, I'm genuinely surprised that's non-existent for the original characters. Yeah, Sora's fantasised about Kairi but that's not very impressive in my book.
Here's my idea for a Sora and Kairi romance, whilst Kairi is training with Lea in Radiant Garden, Ienzo starts to get feelings for Kairi. Sora starts to catch on to this and makes an effort to win Kairi over. An underlying love triangle would be an incentive for Sora to be more overt with his feelings for Kairi.
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if a love triangle is added to kingdom hearts then i will eat my hands, don’t fucking do this. go to fanfiction.net with that
honestly what i think would be funny? all the returning princesses, minnie, ariel, meg, etc, if they all complimented sora on how “dashing†or “handsome†he’s become, and he always gets flustered. thats a good way to show that he feels emotions and understands this stuff.
honestly what i think would be funny? all the returning princesses, minnie, ariel, meg, etc, if they all complimented sora on how “dashing†or “handsome†he’s become, and he always gets flustered. thats a good way to show that he feels emotions and understands this stuff.
I think we could have kept wondering about him without his BBS-personality not falling in line with (or at least giving smallest hints to) who he becomes later in the series.
Probably just depends on how you view the way they were handled. There's no doubt Kairi was neglected, but Saix (and almost the whole rest of the Organization along with him) doesn't feel deliberate to me, but like the concept of adding thirteen "bad guys" at once wasn't properly thought through when it happened.
Seph already explained what I tried to say - the forced stupidity of the characters so that Xehanort's plans fall into motion one after another throughout the whole game was the issue I wanted to address here. It's so omni-present that all development the characters go through is overshadowed by it time after time.
I guess I know what you mean, although BBS already pushed me in the direction of "oh-oh, this geezer is too overpowered". On one hand because of what I mentioned above - he plays the plothole-card so the characters act stupidly so his plans fall into motion - but also because he really is shown to be ridiculously powerful in many ways. 3D's implemention of him always having a "backup-plan" surely worsens this issue, and it's one of the main reasons I don't care much for him, either. I absolutely can't stand characters who always seem to have a plan b, c and up to z, because with each of those backups, being able to defeat them seems more and more unrealistic and usually ends up being unfulfilling to the story (for example if, I dunno...in the end he lost because the X-Blade turned itself against him; he's shown to be a mastermind at this point - there's no way he wouldn't have thought about the possibility of that happening).
Sure, but it was still around. I don't know, somehow I feel like Days had the perfect setup to at least show signs that Axel remembers something. His relationship to Roxas would have been enough reason to link back to his past at least a tiny bit. In the end it's not a great issue for Axel himself, but it simply makes Lea and Isa's cameo even less useful to me.
And that's the thing that I fear will not happen. If KH3 really delivers on his character in whatever way (especially if it's a way of remorse of being a traitor), then his build-up from Days and KH2 will seem even more flawed to me. And if he turns out to be on his own "bad agenda" and not "just" manipulated by Xehanort, it will again feel like implementing him and Lea in BBS the way it was done was simply a waste of time and effort.
Of course. I never meant to say Isa / Saix was the only issue, it's just the one that bothers me the most personally, because he was way more interesting to me than most of the other Organization members. But I do think that the shift in the other characters wasn't really done that well either. One could say that the time passing and the process of being turned into a Nobody changed all of them severely, but then I wonder why they kind of tried to keep Axel and Lea's character traits fairly similar most of the time.
I think that's the reason it bothers me so much. The whole scenery in Olympus was pretty well done, which left the Isa/Lea-scene even more in the light of "useless filler". Implementing the younger versions of the FF squad would have probably made more sense in my eyes, as at least them appearing wouldn't have felt like a filler to please the players. One could argue that it would get in the way of them acting like Sora's keyblade is the one true weapon in KH1, but considering they partly lost their memories of Radiant Garden, it would still fall in line with the story.
"Overpowered darkness plotholing Bonds" :^)
I'm still team "let mah Demy-boi come back and sell Sora some swag music to use on gummi ship missions" and with each passing day, I'm asking myself more and more if that's a joke or if I'm serious about it.
It never felt to me like Sora is any way "aromantic". It's more like he's not interested in these kinds of things. Whenever they are somehow implemented, it's very awkward like the dancing with Kairi scene. I agree that the scene with Riku and Shiki was well done, and I don't doubt it can be implemented well (Zidane is indeed a great example for that), but I feel like it's not a necessary addition to Sora's character to make him look more...vivid.
Of course it does work - it's exactly what I'm doing. Just because Square so far chose to put the focus on other characters doesn't mean I don't have the right to be dissatisfied with these choices. I can still hope for a shift of importance to characters who were not in the spotlight so far. Surely most of them will never happen, but that's not what hopes are about.
Sure, but if the way they were before Xehanort's experiments doesn't believably tie to what they are afterwards, then it doesn't really build up their character - if anything, it makes their development feel flawed and their addition to the game unnecessary. I don't quite see how they took up important roles, either for themselves, nor for Ventus or the Radiant Garden wordbuilding.
Agreed. Romance wasn't a big topic in the series to begin with (excluding the disney stories), and adding a romantic conflict to it simply doesn't fit the series' themes at all.
That's a sweet idea, although I'd hope they wouldn't push it like they already did with the "may your heart be your guiding key" line. It's okay and nice to implement things like that, but it shouldn't start feeling repetitive and forced.
Yeah, there's hope's, but your criticising Saix's important in past titles and not future titles. Literally, they gave him enough importance for each game he was in. His backstory as Isa didn't need to be fleshed out at that period because he was just a passerby with Lea. He wasn't directly involved with the events back then. And as for Dream Drop Distance, he was a surprise reveal against Lea as a Seeker of Darkness.
How do we know if they "believably" tie to their current somebody incarnations or not? you're just being assumptive there. If you learn about a new element of a character then that's character development. All of the Radiant Garden Organization members have new elements about their pre-established characters introduced. Even if it's small, it's something extra added to their character. Their roles may not have been important to the Birth by Sleep narrative but it was important in reaffirming what these characters were before entering the Organization.
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