Xions hood on or off?!



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Xentus

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OK. So iv played days and get almost everything.The ONE thing I dont get is why is it when Axel,Roxas,and Xion are on the clock tower,one second Roxas is talking and Xions hood is off and the next Axel is talking and its on?
 

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It's supposed to represent how only Roxas can see her Kairi-face, because of his connection to Sora. Before Axel connects too, he can only see her with the hood up, probably like a blank doll. Most of the people in the game see 'her' like this, actually.

I still don't really understand why Axel gets to see 'her', let alone the exact same thing as Roxas, though.
 
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I still don't really understand why Axel gets to see 'her', let alone the exact same thing as Roxas, though.
Ignoring Kanemaki's "I wanted her to have black hair" explanation, I had always thought it was because of the hood.
Xion is actually still wearing a hood in all of those scenes, so the projection they see uses that as its base. Black hood, black hair.
And the hair sort of adheres to the shape of the hood (if you squint hard enough, it's almost[ like she's wearing one xD).

So, outside of that, Axel is seeing Namine's face, and Roxas is seeing Kairi's face. Which, really, are the same.
 

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Ignoring Kanemaki's "I wanted her to have black hair" explanation, I had always thought it was because of the hood.
Xion is actually still wearing a hood in all of those scenes, so the projection they see uses that as its base. Black hood, black hair.
And the hair sort of adheres to the shape of the hood (if you squint hard enough, it's almost[ like she's wearing one xD).

So, outside of that, Axel is seeing Namine's face, and Roxas is seeing Kairi's face. Which, really, are the same.
That makes sense.

Convenient that they have ways to see her looking exactly the same, isn't it?
 
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Yeah.
But then the image of Ven just sort of derails it with his non-black hair.
He never made much sense anyway, considering that Xigbar and presumably Xemnas saw him in his entire outfit, whereas only Xion's face changed when Axel and Roxas looked at her.

I mean, it's consistent for Axel and Roxas, but not when you add Xigbar's perception into the mix. Shouldn't Xion technically have looked like she was wearing Kairi or Namine's outfit by that standard? Or, conversely, shouldn't Ven have been wearing an organization cloak?

If the latter was true, I can only imagine Xigbar's viewpoint being even more hilarious- Roxas and Xion as identical twins running around with the same clothes too.
 

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Shouldn't Xion technically have looked like she was wearing Kairi or Namine's outfit by that standard? Or, conversely, shouldn't Ven have been wearing an organization cloak?
*facepalm* So her 'original' appearance is even more contrived than I thought. Is there anything about her existence that isn't, though?

If the latter was true, I can only imagine Xigbar's viewpoint being even more hilarious- Roxas and Xion as identical twins running around with the same clothes too.
I guess from a story-telling point, it would have been impossible to actually convey that it was Ven that Xigbar was seeing, in that case. Hence the contrived bs.
 

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Yeah.
But then the image of Ven just sort of derails it with his non-black hair.
He never made much sense anyway, considering that Xigbar and presumably Xemnas saw him in his entire outfit, whereas only Xion's face changed when Axel and Roxas looked at her.

I mean, it's consistent for Axel and Roxas, but not when you add Xigbar's perception into the mix. Shouldn't Xion technically have looked like she was wearing Kairi or Namine's outfit by that standard? Or, conversely, shouldn't Ven have been wearing an organization cloak?

If the latter was true, I can only imagine Xigbar's viewpoint being even more hilarious- Roxas and Xion as identical twins running around with the same clothes too.
I think the reason they had Xion/Ven wear his normal clothes and not an Organization cloak was because you would have mistaken him for Roxas.
 

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We're dealing with a game series that had Terra have flashes of the future, both nearer to his time with Aqua and Ven being half dead, as well as Riku's future appearance - oh and the past too with past Xehanort.
I dare say this is one of the least of my worries xD;

Then again, there's also one more explanation you overlooked. Kairi and Namine are people Sora had Memories about. So despite having those Memories, Xion still isn't Kairi nor Namine. Whereas with Ven, Roxas IS pretty much the guy. So what Xion would've absorbed of Ven - and she did pretty much by that point, otherwise Roxas wouldn't have been 'dying' - was he himself, thus linking better to Xigbar's Memories.
Xion reflected Ven to Xigbar, as opposed to reflecting Sora's Memories of Kairi and Namine to Roxas and Axel - Memories which were already a mess because of CoM itself from the get go.

It makes sense to me there'd be a difference in how different people perceived Xion, depending on which Memories inside her they related to. The biggest issue here would be, imo, not why Xigbar saw Ven as a whole while Roxas and Axel saw only a different face (which to add up with what Grass said about the hood 'still being there' - their Memories of Xion as they initially met her could've simply mingled with the reflected Memories of Kairi and Namine, thus also making them see Xion as Kairi even when she appeared as Ven to Xigbar and Xemnas - that's how they remembered her from before and that's what they kept seeing).
The true issue here would be why Xigbar saw Ven in his regular clothes when the only interaction the two had was when Ven was in his armor. Though that could be easily explained by Braig having spied on Ventus under Xehanort's orders, or even just relating to Ven's own Memories better that way - Ven'd remember himself more with his usual clothes than with his armor, so that's what Xion'd have to show Xigbar
 
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Then again, there's also one more explanation you overlooked. Kairi and Namine are people Sora had Memories about. So despite having those Memories, Xion still isn't Kairi nor Namine. Whereas with Ven, Roxas IS pretty much the guy. So what Xion would've absorbed of Ven - and she did pretty much by that point, otherwise Roxas wouldn't have been 'dying' - was he himself, thus linking better to Xigbar's Memories.
Xion reflected Ven to Xigbar, as opposed to reflecting Sora's Memories of Kairi and Namine to Roxas and Axel - Memories which were already a mess because of CoM itself from the get go.

It makes sense to me there'd be a difference in how different people perceived Xion, depending on which Memories inside her they related to.
Except even appearing as Sora to Roxas (and Sora, not Ven, is the one being cloned), Xion still appeared with an Organization cloak.
Like I said, it's inconsistent.

I realize they probably chose to have Ven wear his clothes in order for the player to realize that it wasn't Roxas, but that doesn't justify it in my mind, because it doesn't work that way when Roxas saw Xion as Kairi or Sora.

EDIT:
Also, while we're at it, another aspect of how Xion's appearance doesn't make sense is in her hooded form.
It's quite clearly still in the appearance of a female- it has the same lips as Xion/Namine/Kairi.
So you're telling me that Organization members who had never met Kairi or Namine still see a feminine figure projected from the clone of SORA?
Unless you're willing to accept the perverted idea that Vexen modeled the base of Sora's clone off of a female, that just doesn't add up. You'd figure she would at least appear a bit more androgynous.
 
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Except even appearing as Sora to Roxas (and Sora, not Ven, is the one being cloned), Xion still appeared with an Organization cloak.
Like I said, it's inconsistent.
Not quite. At that time, Xemnas gave her a new body. That alone is enough to make it not inconsistent since we're not dealing with the same rules of the game here.
Have only the face change when she's reflecting people Sora remembered. Have the entire look when she's reflecting Ven because she absorbed his "essence". Have the Sora face and then reflect to Roxas what he remembers of she herself once Sora's Memories broke away from her when she got the new body which changes the rules of the game. Alternate explanation - reflecting Xigbar's own Memories let her reflect them in full, whereas when she became Sora, she became Sora. So it was Sora wearing the coat as opposed to only having a face change, or something.
It adds up about as much as most other plot elements in this distorted series do to me.


EDIT:
Also, while we're at it, another aspect of how Xion's appearance doesn't make sense is in her hooded form.
It's quite clearly still in the appearance of a female- it has the same lips as Xion/Namine/Kairi.
So you're telling me that Organization members who had never met Kairi or Namine still see a feminine figure projected from the clone of SORA?
Unless you're willing to accept the perverted idea that Vexen modeled the base of Sora's clone off of a female, that just doesn't add up. You'd figure she would at least appear a bit more androgynous.
As much as I'd have preferred them to shade her entire face by zipping her coat up completely, I somehow understand the technical dilemma that led to that stupid decision. I'd sooner say it was an easier game of character render switching (easier removing the hood than unzip the whole thing) than anything of any true plot relevance. Technical mishap.
 
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Not quite. At that time, Xemnas gave her a new body. That alone is enough to make it not inconsistent since we're not dealing with the same rules of the game here.
Have only the face change when she's reflecting people Sora remembered. Have the entire look when she's reflecting Ven because she absorbed his "essence". Have the Sora face and then reflect to Roxas what he remembers of she herself once Sora's Memories broke away from her when she got the new body which changes the rules of the game. Alternate explanation - reflecting Xigbar's own Memories let her reflect them in full, whereas when she became Sora, she became Sora. So it was Sora wearing the coat as opposed to only having a face change, or something.
It adds up about as much as most other plot elements in this distorted series do to me.
I don't see how Xemnas giving Xion a more powerful "body" justifies that.
It still operated under the same principle as before, since we see that Roxas does see Xion as Kairi after he defeats her.
And if there's anyone's "essence" to be absorbed by Xion, it's Sora's, not Ven's.

Also, your alternate explanation doesn't really add up.
Xion says, "Look at me, Roxas. Who do you see?" The way that's worded heavily implies the appearance is based off of Roxas' own perception of her. After all, as I pointed out, she changes back into her Kairi form. Why would that make sense if it was a physical change?
It wasn't, it was how Roxas saw her. You'll note that Roxas only sees her in that form after he loses some memories of her.
 

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It still operated under the same principle as before, since we see that Roxas does see Xion as Kairi after he defeats her.
Without having an occurance that would justify a full-body change, you can't really say it works under the same principle. And I still hold that the Xion Roxas saw wasn't "Kairi", but how he remembered Xion.

Why would that make sense if it was a physical change?
For starters, the very many people whose Memories she ate up xD;
Also, Roxas would see Xion as her truest form since they share such a strong bond. This won't be Xigbar sees this and everyone else see that - what Roxas sees is most likely what he'd get.

It wasn't, it was how Roxas saw her. You'll note that Roxas only sees her in that form after he loses some memories of her.
That's an inconsistency on its own. Roxas asks who she was and then remembers her name and then apparently remembers enough to pull another Keyblade to keep the Memory alive and keep remembering when he fights Riku. So that's a whole different mess beyond this xD;
As for the change itself, again - she was losing the Memories she was made up from so it makes more sense to me she couldn't keep her Sora appearance. With that leaking out, she was left with her own Memories to give her form.
 
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Without having an occurance that would justify a full-body change, you can't really say it works under the same principle.
And why not? As I said, I don't see how Xemnas giving Xion a more powerful "body" justifies anything. Suddenly, she obtains a new body which by some arbitrary reason operates in an entirely new manner? Where's the logic?

I think I would rather just want to leave it at being inconsistent than having that much of a convoluted answer.


Also, Roxas would see Xion as her truest form since they share such a strong bond. This won't be Xigbar sees this and everyone else see that - what Roxas sees is most likely what he'd get.
Look at me, Roxas. Who do you see? If you see somebody else's
face...a boy's face...then that means I'm almost ready.
Notice how this is focused on Roxas' perception of her an not her actual appearance. If the latter was true, it should have been worded more like:
"Look at me, Roxas. Who am I? If I have somebody else's face..."

As for the change itself, again - she was losing the Memories she was made up from so it makes more sense to me she couldn't keep her Sora appearance. With that leaking out, she was left with her own Memories to give her form.
She was losing memories gradually, but instantly reverted to her Xion form? No, if her physical form was changing, then it would have been gradual along with the outpouring of memories. Instead, it occurred instantly- much like Roxas' memory loss.
 

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Notice how this is focused on Roxas' perception of her an not her actual appearance. If the latter was true, it should have been worded more like:
"Look at me, Roxas. Who am I? If I have somebody else's face..."
I think that's you nitpicking over semantics at this point :\ I never claimed Xion's own appearance changed so much as the nature of what she was reflecting at people did.

She was losing memories gradually, but instantly reverted to her Xion form? No, if her physical form was changing, then it would have been gradual along with the outpouring of memories. Instead, it occurred instantly- much like Roxas' memory loss.
She was losing the Memories Sora gave her - not her own. She maintained those even after completely disappearing as is shown in the revamped "Deep Dive" scene.
 
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I think that's you nitpicking over semantics at this point :\
So it's just worded that way completely by coincidence.

I never claimed Xion's own appearance changed so much as the nature of what she was reflecting at people did.
Yes, you did, when talking about how she changed into Sora.

She was losing the Memories Sora gave her - not her own. She maintained those even after completely disappearing as is shown in the revamped "Deep Dive" scene.
Which, as I said, was not instantaneous. She didn't all of a sudden lose those memories, it was gradual.
So the fact that she jumps from looking like Sora to looking like Xion doesn't reflect that process.
 

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Yes, you did, when talking about how she changed into Sora.
Misworded it then. Not what I meant.

Which, as I said, was not instantaneous. She didn't all of a sudden lose those memories, it was gradual.
So the fact that she jumps from looking like Sora to looking like Xion doesn't reflect that process.
The entire process of Xion disappearing didn't take all that long to complete, and her looking like Sora meant she was basically missing what Roxas had. So even a second in which she was a blur of Nobody-replica and in the shadows should've sufficed, imo.
 
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