Why do so many hate Xion?

[Nukara]

Part of Ansem's appeal is he is a good man turned cruel so I wanted to play with that more. Ansem doesn't see her as a fully-fledged person just a tool to get Sora's memories back and to enact revenge on the Organization.

All the same it does not fit in any way with his character.
On the contrary, he always tried to get rid of nobody, but here he still creates and in fact "plays God".
As for me after this he would certainly not become an anti hero.
But what about Riku, which in fact is much more useful and stronger than the copy and the hassle with it is much less.
If you improve the days, then clearly not in this way.
But this is my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

All the same it does not fit in any way with his character.
On the contrary, he always tried to get rid of nobody, but here he still creates and in fact "plays God".
As for me after this he would certainly not become an anti hero.
But what about Riku, which in fact is much more useful and stronger than the copy and the hassle with it is much less.
If you improve the days, then clearly not in this way.
But this is my opinion.

That's fine and its something I'm still thinking about for a fic so its not set in stone.

In my thoughts, Ansem doesn't see replicas and nobodies as the same thing but isn't willing to acknowledge Xion or Riku Replica as a fully fledged person. Remember replicas are basically robots and as a scientist Ansem wouldn't be against creating autonomous drones. However he would be against artificial intelligence and warn against giving them the ability to think for itself.

Namine and Mickey disagree and later Riku will.

Nobodies to Ansem are unnatural because of how they are formed. He sees them as more akin to ghosts or demons.

A replica is just a more elaborate tool to Ansem.

Xion and Data sora were created by nomura to talk about 'what is the measure of human being?" and I reinterpreted it to be "what defines a life?" as KH makes no distinction between Mickey and Riku as sentient beings.

I wanted to keep that theme but play with it more thoroughly than the game does. Or atleast in a way that develops established characters as well.

 

[Nukara]

That's fine and its something I'm still thinking about for a fic so its not set in stone.

In my thoughts, Ansem doesn't see replicas and nobodies as the same thing but isn't willing to acknowledge Xion or Riku Replica as a fully fledged person. Remember replicas are basically robots and as a scientist Ansem wouldn't be against creating autonomous drones. However he would be against artificial intelligence and warn against giving them the ability to think for itself.

Namine and Mickey disagree and later Riku will.

Nobodies to Ansem are unnatural because of how they are formed. He sees them as more akin to ghosts or demons.

A replica is just a more elaborate tool to Ansem.

Xion and Data sora were created by nomura to talk about 'what is the measure of human being?" and I reinterpreted it to be "what defines a life?" as KH makes no distinction between Mickey and Riku as sentient beings.

I wanted to keep that theme but play with it more thoroughly than the game does. Or atleast in a way that develops established characters as well.

It seems to me or replica are more like homunculus rather than robots?
The same Xion was equated to nobody, however unlike them it was grown artificially.
Riku-Replica had emotions and nobody denied it, on the contrary they still (Organization 13) and manipulated it.
If you take all of the above, then their creation becomes even more monstrous.
In fact, they created almost full-fledged people and eventually tried to make them puppets / robots.
As for your story, I still do not understand the point of DIZ to create a copy of this scenario.
Riku is not skilled enough to fight Roxas?
Yes, and this narrative can greatly affect the plot of KH2 and RAX trio in general. For it would be necessary to further develop them as a trio (For perhaps the story is the same as you said, they would probably also later in the future, after KH3 would become a trio) preventing further development of other equally interesting connections in the series. (For example Lea and Kairi)
However, as a fanfic of AU, I really like it. I love fanfics with an alternative fork of an event like "What if?" so I'll be happy to wait for your letter. ))
I apologize if so hard I try to prove to you my point of view.

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

It seems to me or replica are more like homunculus rather than robots?
The same Xion was equated to nobody, however unlike them it was grown artificially.
Riku-Replica had emotions and nobody denied it, on the contrary they still (Organization 13) and manipulated it.
If you take all of the above, then their creation becomes even more monstrous.
In fact, they created almost full-fledged people and eventually tried to make them puppets / robots.
As for your story, I still do not understand the point of DIZ to create a copy of this scenario.
Riku is not skilled enough to fight Roxas?
Yes, and this narrative can greatly affect the plot of KH2 and RAX trio in general. For it would be necessary to further develop them as a trio (For perhaps the story is the same as you said, they would probably also later in the future, after KH3 would become a trio) preventing further development of other equally interesting connections in the series. (For example Lea and Kairi)
However, as a fanfic of AU, I really like it. I love fanfics with an alternative fork of an event like "What if?" so I'll be happy to wait for your letter. ))
I apologize if so hard I try to prove to you my point of view.

Well, I mean robots can have a level of sentience and probably some level of feelings. An example that isn't KH-related would be Robot Jones, a CN character that was designed to gather information on human middle schoolers. Robot Jones and Xion differ in their programming and the fact that one of them rebelled against said programming, but they are still very similar. Robot Jones was able to make friends with his human subjects just like Xion was able to make friends with her "target". Being a robot doesn't necessarily mean that you just follow orders just because it's in your programming. Xion is probably similar to a robot with an AI. She was designed to take over Roxas but something happened with her "AI" to make her betray the Organization by letting Roxas defeat and absorb her.

 

[redcrown]

- Game reportedly to be about Roxas's time in the Organization that develops to his personality in the KH2 flashbacks of him leaving the Org; "why did the keyblade choose me, I have to know", has this development and arc stolen by a newly introduced character never hinted or shown before.

-Game that also promised to show more of what the rest of the Organization was really like when not playing the role of the villains, also overshadowed completely by Xion.

-Other characters like DiZ Namine and Riku who had only mentioned arcs that would have been cool to see finally revealed in this game, have their arcs and characterizations corrupted and hijacked again by Xion.

(Example: KH2 Riku takes Roxas by force to DiZ willing to throw away his identity and hope of redemption completely to wake Sora up, without any regard to Roxas's will and desire to be his own person with his own life. All of this motivation and character arc is thrown away as Riku treats Xion like a princess willing to give her all the time in the world to decide what she wants to do, at the cost of Sora not waking up)

-Roxas's characterization is completely overwritten to be constantly whining immature and obsessed with only Xion's well being, with next to no character growth for himself as Xion takes away his development and journey of self discovery, that again this game promised would be Roxas's role.

-Her role in the game makes the scenes that were featured in KH2 completely void and meaningless with no sense in it's context. ("why do you have the keyblade? Shut up.)

-Her interference and self inserting plot importance ruins what used to be one of the best and most dynamic scenes of the whole franchise: Deep Dive

And after all of that everyone forgets that she even existed, making the entire game a complete waste of time, all the while it tries to force you to care or feel sad about Xion's death, with fans calling you heartless if you didn't a damn or were actually relieved when she finally left the game.

Xion is like what happens when you take a perfectly good recipe for a cake, bake it, and someone pours over and stuffs it with a nasty black licorice cream abomination: you ruin a perfectly good solid cake and force an incompatible flavor all over it and degrade the whole thing, forcing every nasty bite down your throat.

Side note: Namine is not a Mary Sue, she is a complete deconstruction of the trope, Xion plays the trope straight.

 

[Foxycian]

that's news to me i didn't know she was hated? im guessing most hate her cause they are RoxasxNamine and rikuxXion shippers

 

[Deleted member 246005]

It seems to me or replica are more like homunculus rather than robots?
The same Xion was equated to nobody, however unlike them it was grown artificially.
Riku-Replica had emotions and nobody denied it, on the contrary they still (Organization 13) and manipulated it.
If you take all of the above, then their creation becomes even more monstrous.
In fact, they created almost full-fledged people and eventually tried to make them puppets / robots.
As for your story, I still do not understand the point of DIZ to create a copy of this scenario.
Riku is not skilled enough to fight Roxas?
Yes, and this narrative can greatly affect the plot of KH2 and RAX trio in general. For it would be necessary to further develop them as a trio (For perhaps the story is the same as you said, they would probably also later in the future, after KH3 would become a trio) preventing further development of other equally interesting connections in the series. (For example Lea and Kairi)
However, as a fanfic of AU, I really like it. I love fanfics with an alternative fork of an event like "What if?" so I'll be happy to wait for your letter. ))
I apologize if so hard I try to prove to you my point of view.

It's fine, a healthy debate allows you to rethink things.

I have to look into what a replica actually is but I always saw them as robots given Repliku's death scene in Re:CoM.

Ansem's plan is less about fighting and more about infiltration. He creates Xion to be a decoy for Namine in order to throw the organization off the good's guy trail and to gather intelligence on their stronghold etc. For a Riku centered 358/2 days to work, you have to give it more tangible reasons to take place over a year. So Riku will go through numerous different strategies and attempts before he is successful.

To me the story is a way to explain why Riku is so distant to Sora in KH2. It's also subtext for why he is stuck as the Seeker of Darkness because Darkness is tied to the negative emotions. Riku has a hard time dealing with his arrogance and grief in a healthy way which is why he's susceptible to losing himself to the darkness more.

After Xion's death (however it ends up happening) Riku is racked with guilt and so sick of everything that this carries over into his fight with Roxas. One thing leads to another and voila he is stuck as the Seeker of Darkness.

To me it really doesn't change Kh2's path because Sora knows nothing of what happened. It could lead to a Namine spin-off where she has her own adventure after Roxas wakes up and before she goes save Kairi in the World that Never Was.

Axel was tasked by Xemnas to convince Xion to switch sides after Xemnas finds out about her ruse. This leads to a version of the RAX trio forming as Axel is kinder to her than Ansem is and promises to get her own heart when Kingdom Hearts formed.

Instead of the story being self-contained Riku is telling Sora about these events while they catch up before DDD.

I do have ideas for Lea and Kairi based spinoff post DDD.

 

[Blancanieves]

Xion is one of my fave characters but as some people have said, her role is not very well developed, she´s a baddass and she has more personality than Namine or Kairi, and she´s not a Mary Sue, that´s Kairi.

I think Roxas wouldn´t have left the Organization if it wasn´t for Xion, if he were alone with Axel who (I´m sorry) kind of brainwashed him into thinking that the only purpose in life was to complete Kingdom Hearts and all that stuff, I mean, Roxas just needed ice cream and a friend to be happy, so he could´ve spent years and years doing the same exact thing without realising....

I guess Riku would´ve done something to make Roxas leave the Organization and return to Sora but that would be really hard if he had to do it all by himself.... almost imposible.

Xion´s character would be more logical if she wasn´t forgotten bc people may think that she was just supposed to have that small role and be an unimportant character, but there´s nothing we can do about her.

She might not be a perfect character but she doesn´t deserve hate, (sorry hardcore Rokunami shippers) I can understand people who don´t like her tho

Also her character was planned from the very beggining. we see in the secret ending of KH1 that Roxas already wields Oathkeeper and Obvilion, which means Xion (or at least a similar role) already existed

Sorry for my bad english I hope it´s understandable xD

 

[SweetYetSalty]

There are some fair criticisms on Xion's character and how she was planned after KHII had already came out. Some I even agree with. My thoughts on Xion? Xion is a weird freak of a character...and I love it. She was designed to be Roxas, looks like a goth Kairi, and has Sora's memories poured into her. I don't know why I love the fact that she's so needlessly convoluted, but it never bothered me in a series where we have a organization made up of 13 dead bodies. Seriously the puppet fits right in.

I've always been aware of the hate this character got, but she never bothered me. On the contrary, it was her inclusion that made me want to play Days to see what she was, which lead me to loving Roxas. Roxas went from being one of my least favorite characters in the franchise to becoming my number 1 favorite, just because I was curious on what a Xion was.

I also adore her friendship with Roxas and later Axel, and how it didn't feel forced on me. They also showed me the friendship rather then just telling me she was friends with them. I appreciate that. My favorite Xion moment's don't even include her death. I love the missions she went on with Roxas. It's one of the few times I loved a Agrabah segment in Kingdom Hearts. I loved watching Roxas and Xion meet Genie, dodge all his questions and turn them back onto him, and once they get their answers they leave him in the dust without so much as a "goodbye" or "thank you"

I like how the friendship with Roxas evolved. Like when Xion can't use a Keyblade and Roxas says he'll cover for her, she doesn't outright tell Roxas not to trouble himself for her, she jumps at the chance at hiding behind him. It comes off selfish but then I remember she doesn't have a heart so she can't tell the difference anyway and it makes me laugh. Compare that to the end of the game where she stops caring about herself and only cares about Roxas and Axel and it's a big change in character. Because they do care for one another, and it shows when they go on missions together. I love cheesy friendships in KH. That's my main reason I love this series. Everyone should become a friend!

It also amuses me that Xemnas' big plans for a Sora replica all fail because Roxas extended a hand of friendship to his murder puppet. Another thing Xion has terrible AI. I always imagine when you first have her as a partner, she's secretly trying to get you killed so she can absorb you faster, as that was what she was suppose to do with Roxas. But then she became a person and it ruined that plan, and she attacks a little more...a little lol.

I probably enjoyed Xion far more then I should have. But I can't imagine playing Days without the little puppet in it. One complaint about Xion is she doesn't add anything to the overall plot of KH. That complaint is pretty correct, but for me it's another positive. I like that her story is self contained. It doesn't really bleed into the overall plot like "Oh, this is why Sora can wield a Keyblade!" "Oh, this is why Kairi is magical!" "Oh, this is why Xehanort can do this!" "Oh, this is why this character looks like that character, instead of this character!" 358/2 Days feels optional and I always respected that about Xion.

So in short Xion is a weird freaky character and I love weird freaky characters. Her ability to change into other characters also makes me want to see everyone in the franchise to meet her just to see what they see her as. Did Xion need to exist? Nope. Would Roxas's story have been fine without her? Probably. Am I glad they made her? Yes. Xion takes the lore of Kingdom Hearts, puts it under her coat and lets out a big smelly dutch oven fart on it XD

 

[TruestSyn]

I don't hate her, per say, but I do have a grudge against her. If you replaced her with any other character in Days it would have made as much sense. They could have used Namine as the catalyst for Roxas' entrapment and kept Axel and Roxas as bffs, but I guess for the sake of trios they had to make someone up. It also bothered me that "Organization XIII" ended up having 14 members. I get she was a replacement, but it's in the name! My other rant about her is that she was a puppet taking Sora's memories, if they were to make a new Xion, there's no way she'd be the same person. Since they don't have Namine siphoning Sora's memories, she wouldn't be developed the same way so it doesn't really make sense when you think about it.

 

[Rydgea]

I don't hate her, per say, but I do have a grudge against her.

Let it go. These things age you.

If you replaced her with any other character in Days it would have made as much sense. They could have used Namine as the catalyst for Roxas' entrapment

Out of the ones that were alive who and why? I detest the idea of Naminé being used by the Org AGAIN. At least here, she was proactive, developing her own, heroic character arc by helping Sora, Riku and Xion rather than just being another helpless Kairi.

It also bothered me that "Organization XIII" ended up having 14 members. I get she was a replacement, but it's in the name!

If you're basing the numbering off technicalities, then shortly into Days, organization XIII should've be rebranded as Org VIII, because of the events at Castle Oblivion.

My other rant about her is that she was a puppet taking Sora's memories, if they were to make a new Xion, there's no way she'd be the same person. Since they don't have Namine siphoning Sora's memories, she wouldn't be developed the same way so it doesn't really make sense when you think about it.

Her uniqueness isn't just defined by Sora's memories though. It's just one aspect of her. She still made friends and went through hell while Sora slept. Sora doesn't lay claim to that stuff. Those other experiences are what justify her becoming her own person.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

Assassin's creed 4 Lead Writer Darby McDevitt once said "Fans tend to focus on what they could have had, rather than what they have in front of them".

To me the people who don't like Xion's inclusion in Days had other characters/ideas etc they wanted to see and Xion was a poor substitute.

Which happens more than you think in franchises. Kingdom hearts is not unique in that aspect.