Why do so many hate Xion?

[DefiantHeart]

I personally liked her character, as I felt I could relate to her more for specific personal reasons... honestly without her, days would've been very boring to me, and I wouldn't have considered the game memorable at all. Everyone has their reasons though, and I understand. I typically like games if I can relate to a character, and Xion was the only one I felt a connection to in days.

 

[alexis.anagram]

Lol Are you being serious with this? Namine being their new best friend was ploy by the Organization to manipulate Sora. With Xion, Nomura was blatantly trying to recreate another SRK.

You left out the part of the game where Namine actually becomes friends with Sora and Riku.

 

[Zettaflare]

You left out the part of the game where Namine actually becomes friends with Sora and Riku.

With Sora I get, but I didn't get a sense of friendship between Riku and Namine. Sure they wanted to both help Sora but I got more of a professional, co-worker vibe.

 

[alexis.anagram]

With Sora I get, but I didn't get a sense of friendship between Riku and Namine. Sure they wanted to both help Sora but I got more of a professional, co-worker vibe.

Haha, now that's a nice idea for a fanfic.
My point is, I don't believe that either Xion or Namine qualify as Mary-Sues, and I see people using the term as a dismissive catch-all because they're disinterested in their arcs or the games they appear in. Which is totally fair! Obviously not everybody has to like every game or every character. But when a story has strong enough material to warrant some insight I figure it's worth the conversation.

 

[Precursor Mar]

You left out the part of the game where Namine actually becomes friends with Sora and Riku.

...at the end, as a regular person and not an obvious Kairi replacement. Her not being retconned into the story also helps.

 

[UmbraTsuki]

One is always really sad and insecure about what to do, gets frustrated and angry at people for keeping secrets about them, cares deeply only for their two friends and would do everything to keep them safe, even by betraying the Organization, and is at the constant search of a reason to their existence.

Figure out who I'm talking about.
Or rather, show me when they did something the other one wouldn't have done in their place, personality-wise.

Sounds a lot more like Roxas than Xion.
As some are pointing out now, and what I had in mind, is that Xion was a lot more active than Roxas. She didn't just talk about running away, she did it. Many times. She didn't just sit and ask for answers, she went looking for them. She didn't distrust everyone other than Roxas and Axel-- considering her month+ of time with Riku, I'd say she trusted him quite a bit. Then cared about Sora much more than Roxas did.

As a side note, getting frustrated and angry at people keeping secrets just seems like a natural reaction to me. Especially when communication is key in any relationship.

No, the point was that people use Nobodies age to justify everything about Roxas, EeL literally said Roxas could only perceive emotions at a basic level and should be allowed to be whiny at any length because he's a newborn.
It just doesn't work that way, or I could use this reasoning to excuse him from pooping in its pants for no reason.
Roxas IS capable of complex feelings and reasonings.

Pooping in his pants is completely different than having difficulty perceiving/processing emotions. Roxas had no episodic memory, but one could say he had muscle memory-- he could walk, talk, and weild the keyblade. But lack of episodic memory would take away his ability to interpret emotions by recalling past situations where said emotions were key. He has to figure out emotions all over again.

Again, it's not about what they remember. It's about feeling emotions and reasoning and what role their age plays in, something in which Roxas and Xemans shouldn't be divided by anything.

Roxas is a teenager, and Xemnas is an adult. I don't see why they wouldn't be divided at all.

And that was really the point of the entire Days-BBS-Coded trilogy: to reconstruct the active plot in order to accommodate a broadening narrative.

I agree with this.
They could have done any of those games much differently. The same way they could have done Days differently. They could have done anything in the series differently. But this is how they chose to do it.

I've never really understood the Xion as Mary-Sue or self-insert perspective, though. She's a character who is expressly designed to have no power of her own, who is frustrated at (almost) every attempt to establish her own will or control her narrative in any way, who disappears for large portions of time, who pointedly has no real insight nor secret special knowledge about anything that's going on, and who spends most of the story either at odds with or being manipulated by the protagonists. If it's simply a matter of introducing a central female character with mythological relevance, contrived relationships with existing characters and a tragic fate then both Aqua and Namine are Mary-Sues. And what does that say about Roxas, Ven, and Terra? Are dudes categorically exempt from this criticism? 'Cause it applies to all of them equally.

I like you.
Specifically, I like you calling out male characters. I don't remember the arguments right now (I could come up with some of my own when I have more time), but I know people have pointed out male characters having "mary sue" qualities which are ignored overall. I remember some arguing that Sora is just a mary-sue (or "gary stu" if you want to use the stupid gendered terms).

Maybe you should replay the game? Because both Roxas and Axel had to save her ass sometimes.

"Sometimes" does not equal "all the time." She saves her own ass plenty.

Also, being a 'Mary Sue', which doesn't really exist, implies that Xion was Mary Poppins in personality: "practically perfect in every way" and liked by everyone. But she wasn't liked by everyone. Saix never cared about her, seeing her as nothing but a useless, faceless puppet. Xemnas only saw her as a backup plan in case Roxas was deemed useless. And unless your name was Roxas, Axel, Namine or Riku, everyone else was either indifferent to her(the remaining Org XIII members) or never knew she existed(King Mickey).

I forgot about that trait of mary sues. You're absolutely right. From the beginning, she was considered a tool-- if she was liked at all by most of the Organization, it was only for her ability. Which really says they didn't care about her at all.

Also KeybladeKnightQ, in fairness to Kairi and Namine, they have important roles in the games they appear in, plus "strong female characters" doesn't always equal being able to fight their way out of a situation, there are other types of strength.

Thank you for pointing this out. I hate when Kairi or Naminé are seen as weak.

Who didn't cry when Xion died in Roxas arms?

I know this was hypothetical, but I actually also didn't cry. Partly because I'm probably an ass, and partly because my brother spoiled the ending for me before I got there. Jerk.

Again, looking at the series as a whole now, I agree that Days could have done better to service the overall plot and existing characters. It probably would've been better without her. Be that as it may.. what's done is done. Xion happened lol

True. Perhaps the game would have been better-- but now that she's here, she's here. And I love her.

One positive I can say about Xion is that I feel she has the best character theme in the series.

All the music is so amazing that it's hard to decide, but I like the way you think, at least.

Again, case in point: what about Namine and Chain of Memories? New best friend of Sora and Riku, dramatic and sad story, ends in pretty tragic fashion

Yes.
Fun fact, when I had only played KH1 and then started Days, and had no idea who Naminé was, her description about manipulating Sora's memories really pissed me off. I'm glad I don't hate her now, but her role always threw me off.

Overpowered? She only has access to that super rare "Keyblade" (which has been or will be wielded by every single KH original main good guy and several Disney tie-ins by the time KH3 rolls around)

(Seriously though.)

Obviously that is a totally unbalanced, surface-level reading of her character which doesn't take any of the particulars of her circumstances and the real strengths of her character into account. But that's how people read Xion.

I think you've finally described what my feelings are about most readings of Xion.
(And then, I don't need to quote it all, but I love the entire rest of your post.)

I personally liked her character, as I felt I could relate to her more for specific personal reasons... honestly without her, days would've been very boring to me, and I wouldn't have considered the game memorable at all. Everyone has their reasons though, and I understand. I typically like games if I can relate to a character, and Xion was the only one I felt a connection to in days.

Same here. It seems like her being relatable is perhaps part of what makes people think she's a self-insert...? Which doesn't make sense to me because relatable is necessary if you want people to care about the characters, but okay.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

Sounds a lot more like Roxas than Xion.
As some are pointing out now, and what I had in mind, is that Xion was a lot more active than Roxas. She didn't just talk about running away, she did it. Many times. She didn't just sit and ask for answers, she went looking for them. She didn't distrust everyone other than Roxas and Axel-- considering her month+ of time with Riku, I'd say she trusted him quite a bit. Then cared about Sora much more than Roxas did.

That's actions, not personality. Personality is how you feel, actions is what you do, normally the ocnsequences of personality and feelings.
What Xion does doesn't negate the fact that her and Roxas have the same personality-- if anything, what she indeed does empowers it.

As a side note, getting frustrated and angry at people keeping secrets just seems like a natural reaction to me. Especially when communication is key in any relationship.

Never mentioned anything about their reactions not being natural. Just that they are the same.

Pooping in his pants is completely different than having difficulty perceiving/processing emotions. Roxas had no episodic memory, but one could say he had muscle memory-- he could walk, talk, and weild the keyblade. But lack of episodic memory would take away his ability to interpret emotions by recalling past situations where said emotions were key. He has to figure out emotions all over again.

Again, and I'm hoping is the last time: people said Roxas is like a newborn. He is not. The time spent living as a Nobody does not match up his psycological age, because the other Nobodies clearly aren't.
I don't think Xigbar operates on muscle memory.
And yes, Roxas is a special case because he has no memory, but still the main point is that Nobodies don't reflect their biological age in behaviour.

I'm well aware and sorry that I come off as rude, but I honestly didn't think I had to explain this concept more than three rimes over.

Roxas is a teenager, and Xemnas is an adult. I don't see why they wouldn't be divided at all.

Neither do I, if that was what I said. Which isn't, it was about the aforementioned point about Nobodies and biological age.
Xemnas isn't a ten years old in mind as Roxas isn't a newborn.

 

[Face My Fears]

It is shown in the game that Roxas learns, basically "grows up" even if not by much.
Xion is a newborn, too, if you want, but she doesn't act as stupidly as he does (which is demanding answers but doing absolutely nothing to get them, and if he does get them, he bitches about how they can't be true. Even when Axel was truthful with him, he was like "uhhh are you nuts????")

Xion and Roxas are different people though. You can't expect all nobodies to act the same when they're created. Sure, you can call Roxas stupid in the way he behaved, but I think it made sense for him to act that way. Maybe it was seeing Roxas in KH2 and then seeing him regress to what he was in Days was off-putting. To me, it makes perfect sense that Roxas was so whiny and didn't really do anything to get his answers. He's a kid. The only way to get his answers is to go against the only "family" he knows.

Even when Axel tells Roxas the truth, Roxas was so trained to not believe anything. This is what I loved about Roxas in Days. The emotional/psychological abuse that he endured and the way he suffered from it was shown quite well. He couldn't trust anyone. It was devastating for me to watch him go through all of that. So he may have come across as "stupid", I personally look at it as "immature". So I can understand why you think he was whiny/annoying, I'm not invalidating your point. I'm just saying that I didn't have a problem with it because it was justified to me with what we saw in the game.

Can I ask what it was that made her departure impactful for you?

Seeing Xion make that choice - to give up everything - to help her friend Roxas and to do the right thing... one word - heartbreaking. It was especially devastating knowing both Axel and Roxas' fates. Just knowing that these three friends were destined to never be together again and the strength of Xion to make that choice. Ugh... it gets me really emotional thinking about it.

 

[UmbraTsuki]

That's actions, not personality. Personality is how you feel, actions is what you do, normally the ocnsequences of personality and feelings.
What Xion does doesn't negate the fact that her and Roxas have the same personality-- if anything, what she indeed does empowers it.

But like you said, actions are normally the result of personality+feelings. Even if they relate to each other, it doesn't make their personality identical.

Never mentioned anything about their reactions not being natural. Just that they are the same.

My point is that those would be the same reactions other people/characters would have in common as well. So Xion and Roxas having that in common doesn't really mean much.

Again, and I'm hoping is the last time: people said Roxas is like a newborn. He is not. The time spent living as a Nobody does not match up his psycological age, because the other Nobodies clearly aren't.
I don't think Xigbar operates on muscle memory.
And yes, Roxas is a special case because he has no memory, but still the main point is that Nobodies don't reflect their biological age in behaviour.

I'm well aware and sorry that I come off as rude, but I honestly didn't think I had to explain this concept more than three rimes over.

I don't think you come off as rude. I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say though. Maybe that's mutual, we both don't understand what the other is saying, and in that case, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Neither do I, if that was what I said. Which isn't, it was about the aforementioned point about Nobodies and biological age.
Xemnas isn't a ten years old in mind as Roxas isn't a newborn.

I think... you might be taking the word "newborn" more literally than it's meant. But I don't know.

Seeing Xion make that choice - to give up everything - to help her friend Roxas and to do the right thing... one word - heartbreaking. It was especially devastating knowing both Axel and Roxas' fates. Just knowing that these three friends were destined to never be together again and the strength of Xion to make that choice. Ugh... it gets me really emotional thinking about it.

That's really true. I don't think that has to go to waste if Xion comes back, though... she still did the right thing in that moment, and it took a lot for her to do that to herself and to all of them at the time. Also doesn't she say she will come back? iirc.
... okay, double-checked, she says "See you again." At least in the English version. I'd have to go watch the Japanese scene to see how that differs, and maybe I'll do that later.

 

[Face My Fears]

That's really true. I don't think that has to go to waste if Xion comes back, though... she still did the right thing in that moment, and it took a lot for her to do that to herself and to all of them at the time. Also doesn't she say she will come back? iirc.
... okay, double-checked, she says "See you again." At least in the English version. I'd have to go watch the Japanese scene to see how that differs, and maybe I'll do that later.

I think what Xion said there was kinda like what Namine said about seeing Sora again or Axel's "see you in the next life". Roxas and Xion are both in Sora now, so technically they're together again.

And if Xion comes back, it'd be kind of like if Padme, Anakin, and Obi Wan returned at the end of Star Wars. The characters served their purposes. There is no reason for them to return except "a happy ending". Also, I feel like it goes against what Xion herself chose.

 

[UmbraTsuki]

I think what Xion said there was kinda like what Namine said about seeing Sora again or Axel's "see you in the next life". Roxas and Xion are both in Sora now, so technically they're together again.

And if Xion comes back, it'd be kind of like if Padme, Anakin, and Obi Wan returned at the end of Star Wars. The characters served their purposes. There is no reason for them to return except "a happy ending". Also, I feel like it goes against what Xion herself chose.

That's true. I kind of always assumed that "see you again" was extended to Axel too though, but that might just be me.
Then, in a way, Axel never expected to be revived into a Somebody, so that kind of is the "next life"?

Possibly. I think as long as Xion gets a say in not being revived (it's implied she still exists somewhere, even if she's not her own person physically), I could be content. I just wouldn't want to see her not get a chance when clearly, other characters are going to be brought back. I'm looking forward to seeing how they handle the whole thing.

I suppose we're getting a bit off-topic now, though.

 

[Face My Fears]

That's true. I kind of always assumed that "see you again" was extended to Axel too though, but that might just be me.
Then, in a way, Axel never expected to be revived into a Somebody, so that kind of is the "next life"?

Possibly. I think as long as Xion gets a say in not being revived (it's implied she still exists somewhere, even if she's not her own person physically), I could be content. I just wouldn't want to see her not get a chance when clearly, other characters are going to be brought back. I'm looking forward to seeing how they handle the whole thing.

I suppose we're getting a bit off-topic now, though.

I don't think we're getting off topic. Another reason I've heard people dislike Xion (and Roxas/Namine) is because of how much time will seemingly be spent on trying to revive them. I can understand the distaste in the focus of the last game in the Xehanort saga being spent on bringing "niche" clone characters. But to hate the characters themselves for being a part of that doesn't make sense.

 

[UmbraTsuki]

I don't think we're getting off topic. Another reason I've heard people dislike Xion (and Roxas/Namine) is because of how much time will seemingly be spent on trying to revive them. I can understand the distaste in the focus of the last game in the Xehanort saga being spent on bringing "niche" clone characters. But to hate the characters themselves for being a part of that doesn't make sense.

That's a good point. And I agree. Like, to me, you should be able to hate a character's role they were put into, or some of their actions, without hating the character themself.

(And this isn't a criticism of anyone here. Just my thoughts.)

To me it's similar to Kairi's role in KH1 being really.. stereotypical. Which is aggravating. They've let her grow out of that, thank god, but I wouldn't hate her for her role. KH1 Kairi is still adorable, charming, and precious. And still strong in her own way.
(Though I believe I've seen some do hate her for such reasons, but... well. Don't do that.)

 

[Elysium]

I don't hate Xion. The only way I can explain it is that people wanted to see more of the Organization in Days (which kind of seemed like what you would expect from a Roxas prequel) and, not only did they not get that, they instead get an entirely new character who steals the plot and intrudes upon Axel and Roxas's friendship. Days isn't as much a letdown as a prequel as BbS is, but still. Since I was never an Axel/Roxas shipper or an Organization fan, I was never bothered, but I can imagine how those that are would find Days very annoying.

I don't know why anyone would think they wouldn't revive Xion, Roxas, etc. just because it would be irrelevant. Disney is full of resurrections and fake-outs for no particular reason (that occasionally hurt the story) for the sake of the happy ending. And ultimately KH has been Disney in that way so far, with everything being fixed with a bow on top at the end. And I hate Kairi regardless of her role or the small size of it. There are a lot of stereotypical damsel characters out there that I don't dislike like I do Kairi. It's more her dialogue, voice, etc.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

But like you said, actions are normally the result of personality+feelings. Even if they relate to each other, it doesn't make their personality identical.

My point is that those would be the same reactions other people/characters would have in common as well. So Xion and Roxas having that in common doesn't really mean much.

That's just not how it works. I've met tons of people with my same personality, with same issues and strong point.
Then factors like chance, age difference, different scenarios, influence of others, made the actions we did in life very different. You can't just use actions to estimate wether or not personalities are the same, because they are heavily influenced by external parameters.
Just to quote one example, meeting and getting defeated by Riku is something only Xion experimented, therefore making her doing stuff Roxas wouldn't.

I also feel like we're taking this way too far, so I'm gonna take a step back: Roxas and Xion are videogame characters. Even the best written (and they definitely aren't) characters will never be as complex and variegated as a real person, they will follow the guidelines their creators conceived.
So we can debate the inner workings of personality as much as we want, but the simpler truth is that they are indeed built in the same way.
I mean, it's what everyone else is saying, Xion is another Roxas.

I don't think you come off as rude. I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say though. Maybe that's mutual, we both don't understand what the other is saying, and in that case, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic.

I understand. Roxas has some skills but lacks other due to his condition.
My point is that claiming he should be treated exactly as a one year old is just wrong for all the reasons.
Again, disagreeing with this means claiming that every Nobody is just as smart and capable as their age, meaning all Organization members' skills cannot exceed ten years, since that's how old the oldest are.
While we can hopefully all agree that Nobodies that are grown-up men do act and think and feel like grown-up men, meaning Roxas acts like a teenager and not like a baby.

I think... you might be taking the word "newborn" more literally than it's meant. But I don't know.

No that's the thing-- others took that way too far. And all I'm saying is that they shouldn't.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Who didn't cry when Xion died in Roxas arms?

I can count as an example as well since by the time it came around I was already "overfed" with the constant pushed drama around her which was littered throughout the entire narrative.

As some are pointing out now, and what I had in mind, is that Xion was a lot more active than Roxas. She didn't just talk about running away, she did it. Many times. She didn't just sit and ask for answers, she went looking for them. She didn't distrust everyone other than Roxas and Axel-- considering her month+ of time with Riku, I'd say she trusted him quite a bit. Then cared about Sora much more than Roxas did.

Same here. It seems like her being relatable is perhaps part of what makes people think she's a self-insert...? Which doesn't make sense to me because relatable is necessary if you want people to care about the characters, but okay.

Xion being more active and essentially "seizing" the entire narrative of Days (after a certain point there is almost no scene that doesn't involve her in some shape or form even if she isn't present) is at least as I have observed one of the main gripes parts of the fandom have with her.

The problem in itself isn't introducing a new character or even Xion possibly having some "Mary Sue"-traits which arguably can be said about Naminé and Sora as well, but her taking over so much of the focus in Days that the other characters suffer greatly for it.
There are also quite some people around who originally were staunch Roxas fans but started to dislike him due to his portrayal in Days.

Axel left aside, Saix, Xigbar, Xemnas, DiZ and Naminé are also supposed to be rather important characters and yet they barely do anything visible in Days because of everything being focused on Xion and her "soap-opera drama".

Self-insert characters in Fanworks also tend to get the most focus and literally take over nearly the whole narrative, so that may also a reason why some perceive her as a self-insert.

 

[The_Echo]

I've harped on and on about Days and Xion, and I can see people have already mentioned my grievances so I'll keep it short.

Xion is a vestigial character. Kingdom Hearts would be no different without her, evidenced by her self-retcon.
Xion feels like a fan-fic self insert. The fourteenth member of Organization XIII? Who just so happens to be friends with Roxas, Axel, and Riku? And also happens to have the entire plot revolve around her? As if this wasn't already uploaded to fanfiction.net before Days had even released.
Seriously, all that's missing are the H scenes.
She hogs the screentime, leaving much of the Organization as bereft of depth and characterization as they were left with following CoM and especially KHII.

This isn't necessarily a Xion-specific thing, but Days in general redefines what it means to be melodramatic.
I don't know how many of you have read the KH novel, but it seems melodrama is Kanemaki's forte, because in the first novel she inserts an obvious romantic tilt to SRK which is really only there if you want it to be there, far as the game goes. Also, Sora's like... insecure about himself in comparison with Riku. It's weird and really didn't need to be there.

So Days is where she gets free reign to be as self-indulgent in her own dramatics as she wants, and it really, really shows. Even from that first interlude with Roxas holding his head in his arms, like... that's not Kingdom Hearts, y'know? It's such a black sheep. It doesn't feel like she was trying to write a KH​ story.

Who didn't cry when Xion died in Roxas arms?

Yo

 

[DarkosOverlord]

About her death scene, I'm torn.
If I think of it by itself, knowing her past and all that, I CAN get emotional over it, but as "Days' tragic finale" it doesn't do anything for me, also for the reasons others specified.
It's just like Xion herself, both have good points but when looking at the complete picture you can see the gripes.

 

[VoidGear.]

You can't expect all nobodies to act the same when they're created.

No, but I can expect Roxas to grow mentally in a similar way to how Xion does, other than sitting around doing nothing and demanding answers for a whole year because he's apparently "a newborn".

Sure, you can call Roxas stupid in the way he behaved, but I think it made sense for him to act that way.

Does it? He questions every move his friends and "colleagues" make, but never actually does anything with the doubts he holds. He just gets pissed constantly and then when he's given answers, he doesn't want them.

Maybe it was seeing Roxas in KH2 and then seeing him regress to what he was in Days was off-putting. To me, it makes perfect sense that Roxas was so whiny and didn't really do anything to get his answers. He's a kid. The only way to get his answers is to go against the only "family" he knows.

Again, that would mean Xion is a kid, too, yet she doesn't act like a completely hopeless five-year-old throughout the game.
Roxas, at least late into the game, isn't more a kid than Ventus or Sora are.
And no, actually Roxas doesn't seem to give that many fucks about anyone but Axel and Xion. He recognizes there are other people in the Organization, but damn, I never see him care about them.

Even when Axel tells Roxas the truth, Roxas was so trained to not believe anything. This is what I loved about Roxas in Days. The emotional/psychological abuse that he endured and the way he suffered from it was shown quite well. He couldn't trust anyone. It was devastating for me to watch him go through all of that. So he may have come across as "stupid", I personally look at it as "immature". So I can understand why you think he was whiny/annoying, I'm not invalidating your point. I'm just saying that I didn't have a problem with it because it was justified to me with what we saw in the game.

I mean it's fair for anyone to accept or like the way he acted, I just didn't find it justified at all and I didn't think the transgression from "whiny little snitch" to "sassy dark mysterious villain-like character" like he's presented in KH2 (except for the prologue, of course) was done well. It kinda came out of nowhere. Days just kinda takes the cake on "slow-burn with a rushed finale" KH-games.

 

[UmbraTsuki]

I also feel like we're taking this way too far, so I'm gonna take a step back: Roxas and Xion are videogame characters. Even the best written (and they definitely aren't) characters will never be as complex and variegated as a real person, they will follow the guidelines their creators conceived.
So we can debate the inner workings of personality as much as we want, but the simpler truth is that they are indeed built in the same way.
I mean, it's what everyone else is saying, Xion is another Roxas.

Okay, I'll just say this: I can see them having the same base personality (like "cut from the same fabric" so to speak), but I don't, and will likely never, think the details are the same, or that every characteristic of their personalities are the same. You're right, characters can't have personalities as complex as people.

Xion being more active and essentially "seizing" the entire narrative of Days (after a certain point there is almost no scene that doesn't involve her in some shape or form even if she isn't present) is at least as I have observed one of the main gripes parts of the fandom have with her.

The problem in itself isn't introducing a new character or even Xion possibly having some "Mary Sue"-traits which arguably can be said about Naminé and Sora as well, but her taking over so much of the focus in Days that the other characters suffer greatly for it.
There are also quite some people around who originally were staunch Roxas fans but started to dislike him due to his portrayal in Days.

That all makes sense. I wasn't in the fandom before Days and had only played KH1, so every single character in the game was new to me. To me, it seems like there are others who played Days first who really loved the game, so it does feel like the new character focus threw off people who had played KH1/CoM/2 first and created a bias there. It's a bias that's understandable, I get why they're angry, but I don't think Xion herself is a bad character.

Self-insert characters in Fanworks also tend to get the most focus and literally take over nearly the whole narrative, so that may also a reason why some perceive her as a self-insert.

I find some humor in that the entire Kingdom Hearts series is like a FF/Disney crossover fic anyway.[/quote] Also I still feel like it's similar to Naminé, but maybe that's just me.

Does it? He questions every move his friends and "colleagues" make, but never actually does anything with the doubts he holds. He just gets pissed constantly and then when he's given answers, he doesn't want them.

I feel like this is a teenager thing. At least for some teenagers.

And no, actually Roxas doesn't seem to give that many diddlys about anyone but Axel and Xion. He recognizes there are other people in the Organization, but damn, I never see him care about them.

How many people would care deeply about all of their coworkers/classmates/etc.? It's pretty normal to find a couple you're close with. I believe he cares about the others, but it's on a basic, colleague level.

I mean it's fair for anyone to accept or like the way he acted, I just didn't find it justified at all and I didn't think the transgression from "whiny little snitch" to "sassy dark mysterious villain-like character" like he's presented in KH2 (except for the prologue, of course) was done well. It kinda came out of nowhere. Days just kinda takes the cake on "slow-burn with a rushed finale" KH-games.

I think it's interesting Roxas was interpreted that way in KH2. To me, Days makes sense as a background. He's angry at Sora, and Days gives him reason to be.