Unless MX wasn't corrupt at that point. Or pretended to be a good master to conivince Ven to join his cause. Does that imply that Ventus was also interested in MXs work as a seeker if darkness at first?
Which is most tragic?
- Thread starter MegaCore5
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He was corrupt before he gave Eraqus the scar on his face, which is before he met Ven. I doubt a 9-10 year old would be interested in such a thing. MX could have convinced him, which is probably.
How did Eraqus get that scar?? I must have missed something because I had no idea that his scar had an actual story behind it. Why would ven be training under MX at age 9/10 I think he was a little bit more older than that.
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As someone who really dislikes Xion, I would still say it's Days. In BBS as I played I still had a sense of hope, that I was still fighting for something real and within my capabilities. BBS' ending was also set up in a way that you know, despite all this, there's still hope for them. Playing through Days I had no sense of hope, these characters were fighting for something beyond their reach, they're constantly reminded that them existing is a mistake, and you know from the start what will happen to them. The whole Xion thing is whatever, but it is sad. It's this feeling of hopelessness that gets me, up until recently we didn't know that these characters could be saved. In BBS I felt the characters still had a chance, they gave a fight. Days felt like fighting a lost cause, that feeling of being helpless because everything that transpires is ultimately out of your control.
No one likes to see the main character die even if he or she isn't that important. Yeah xion literally dies in Days, and TAV are still alive, suffering but they are alive
well terra and aqua, but ventus isn't because hes just in a long slumber waiting for sora to reconnect with him.
But wouldn't you say being in a coma isn't the best thing in the world either ... Surely you could call that suffering! Or at least everyone around you who misses you would be suffering.
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That's one of the things that made the ending less painful. Ventus is asleep, it has always been referred to as such, meaning he's waiting for something to wake him up. This gives you an immediate sense of hope for the character, something Roxas, Axel and Xion never had in their stories (until recently ofc).
I'd say Terra is the least alive out of the BBS trio honestly, due to his... Complicated situation.
i disagree about terra not being alive that much because he's still there waiting to be free and to get his body back. in bbs when xehanort took terra's body terra said that he wouldnt give up on his friends and that he also will get his body back and he's gonna put up a fight.
MX shot some darkness at him after their views on darkness differed and Eraqus tried to stop him. Because when Ven meets Terra and Aqua, it was 4 years prior to the events of BBS, which is the Mark of Mastery. I just gave Ven under a year to year training under MX before he met them.
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He's easily the hardest one to save. Getting your body back from freaking Xehanort is a lot more complicated than fetching you from the dark realm, or returning your heart. Terra did put up a fight, as the lingering sentiment. He lost and has been a vessel for over 10 years. His will is the only thing left that's still him, everything else is Xehanort. Everyone else is waiting for something, but Terra's waiting for a miracle.
"Just in a long slumber" is a rather gross understatement though.
Don't forget that Ven's heart got literally smashed to pieces by destroying the X-blade and Vanitas, nearly destroying his heart a second time.
The pain from that fracture/wound was so intense even Sora could feel it on a different world far away.
The cutscene is not named the "The fractured Heart's Return" for nothing.
The reason Ventus sleeps is because his heart needs to rest and recuperate from the damage done to it.
It certainly isn't just a peaceful nap that the heart is taking.
This. This. This. THIS!!!
TAV were tricked/pulled into MX's schemes while Roxas and Xion were being manipulated from day one. They were being conditioned to be the perfect slaves since they came into being, and so like inmates they formed a strong friendship in a very negative environment.
TAV had the luxury of being friends before their tragedies and despite being on difficult quests, they still were hopeful and searching for each other. With the Day trio, their friendship begins to deteriorate after a few months which is evident by how many times they don't meet up. Something always comes up, something is always on their minds, and something is always kept from them. It doesn't help that everyone's hidden agenda also wears their bond to the brink of breaking.
Ultimately as I said before, for me Days is more tragic because its more realistic and easier to relate to. The idea of friendship being tested in a difficult environment(like school or work) is something a lot of us go through. Also losing friends be it by distancing or hidden secrets is a real thing that happens a lot in school situations.
Weirdly enough I had a friend that I used to work with in this warehouse that was like Axel in a sense. Great friend, we would meet for lunch and eat at whatever fast food chain we could find. Time passed and my higher ups began to abuse their power by raising everyone's pay(who were in their circle) and increasing my work load. Took me by surprise because my friend was one those who got a raise. He knew they were going to do this and refused to tell me. Just like Roxas and I stayed hoping for things to get better, but they didn't so I quit.
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In BBS while they're still suffering, they gave everyone a small happy/hopeful ending.
Aqua got saved by Terra's and Ven's Keyblade and her attitude improved. Ven got that warm scene with young Sora, and Terra had that little sassy property disagreement with MX. I won't deny that Blank Points gave everyone something to look for, but the tragedy is still there. The only hopeful ending Days gave us was the summer/beach vacation idea that everyone who's played KH2 knows won't happen. Its an added stab.
Also the supposed friendship of TAV was constantly parodied over with that one scene of them in LoD. To me it was like, Hey Player just reminding you that Terra, Aqua and Ventus are actually friends! Here watch this scene like 3 times. Just remember they're actually friends. HERE TAKE IT!
The other tragedy of Days was the pixelated faces.
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I'm going to have to also agree with Days being the most tragic. If you take Xion's creation as an allegory for Frankenstein's monster then it actually makes things deeper than they're probably intended to be. Both Roxas and Xion are born with blank slates, Xion doesn't even have a face at first because of this however the fact that she gains one as Roxas befriends her is very poetic in a way. Then Xion finds out her true purpose and she becomes conflicted between her own happiness and what is right, her joining back up with Sora. She has no choice in the matter and in the end she becomes a monster forcing Roxas to take her life and in the end everyone forgets her like she's never existed in the first place. Roxas also feels as if his life is in the control of the Organization and Sora making him leave the Organization as well. Let's not forget Axel who has to watch his two friends struggle and lie to them in the process.
In BBS, it feels like everyone had a choice to make. Some of Terra's actions were downright stupid and Ventus could have listened to Aqua and have gone home, better yet, Aqua could have actually escorted him there instead of leaving him to do who knows what. I do feel sorry for Ven and Aqua but Terra kind of deserved what he got and so did Eraqus.
In BBS, it feels like everyone had a choice to make. Some of Terra's actions were downright stupid and Ventus could have listened to Aqua and have gone home, better yet, Aqua could have actually escorted him there instead of leaving him to do who knows what. I do feel sorry for Ven and Aqua but Terra kind of deserved what he got and so did Eraqus.
Now I think this thread really does need a poll as there have been a lot of votes for BBS and Days.
Thanks for bringing this up Sephiroth. Some people do seem to overlook how terrible Ven's situation actually is. He may not be possessed or stuck in the RoD but his heart has went through some terrible ordeals.
Thanks for bringing this up Sephiroth. Some people do seem to overlook how terrible Ven's situation actually is. He may not be possessed or stuck in the RoD but his heart has went through some terrible ordeals.
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I'm gonna have to place my vote on Birth by Sleep.
Even back when I liked Days, the ending really didn't hit me as hard as BbS did. I never found myself in a place where I cared about Xion, who was really the focus of the 'tragedy' in Days. I mean, for a good portion of the game she's either MIA or comatose. Doesn't make for a good player-character connection if you ask me. It feels like the game tells me I should care about her more than I see any real reason to do so.
The BbS trio all met a fate where they were trapped by their decisions, but at the same time because of the circumstances they had been trapped into making those decisions. Ventus had no choice but to shatter his own heart. Terra had no choice but to clash with Xehanort. Aqua had no choice but to try and save Terra. The tagline of the game is, after all, "destiny is never left to chance."
And I think being able to view the events from the eyes of all three protagonists helped to make a stronger connection with them. We walk with them in tandem and see everything through their perspective. It gives us a more rounded understanding of the characters and the circumstances they found themselves in. Their struggle was our struggle and it made the losses more real in that sense.
I guess the big difference is that Xion and Roxas accepted fates they didn't want.
Terra, Aqua and Ventus were forced into fates they didn't deserve.
There are similarities in the situations, but I think the presentation and player involvement make huge differences.
Even back when I liked Days, the ending really didn't hit me as hard as BbS did. I never found myself in a place where I cared about Xion, who was really the focus of the 'tragedy' in Days. I mean, for a good portion of the game she's either MIA or comatose. Doesn't make for a good player-character connection if you ask me. It feels like the game tells me I should care about her more than I see any real reason to do so.
The BbS trio all met a fate where they were trapped by their decisions, but at the same time because of the circumstances they had been trapped into making those decisions. Ventus had no choice but to shatter his own heart. Terra had no choice but to clash with Xehanort. Aqua had no choice but to try and save Terra. The tagline of the game is, after all, "destiny is never left to chance."
And I think being able to view the events from the eyes of all three protagonists helped to make a stronger connection with them. We walk with them in tandem and see everything through their perspective. It gives us a more rounded understanding of the characters and the circumstances they found themselves in. Their struggle was our struggle and it made the losses more real in that sense.
I guess the big difference is that Xion and Roxas accepted fates they didn't want.
Terra, Aqua and Ventus were forced into fates they didn't deserve.
There are similarities in the situations, but I think the presentation and player involvement make huge differences.
No further explanation? Come now don't let us hanging.
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What I find really interesting about this discussion is how each and one of us perceive and interpret the events of these games. How we can relate more to certain characters, and stray away from others. We ignore/overlook certain aspects and situations, and focus on other parts. The experience is truly relative.
We imagine their friendships and hardships, giving them a sense of reality. I guess its important as to how the games present the characters/story and how invested the player actually is.
As I stated before the the most tragic story to me is ultimately the one that I can relate to.
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Days.
I didnt feel anything in regards to the bbs trio. Because I felt Ventus was an undeveloped character, Aqua's fate felt more like an excuse to get her out of the picture, and Terra was such an idiot. Also none of these characters interacted much on screen, so we are not shown how big their friendship is.
By Contrast we saw the days trio grow, so I felt bad for them.
I didnt feel anything in regards to the bbs trio. Because I felt Ventus was an undeveloped character, Aqua's fate felt more like an excuse to get her out of the picture, and Terra was such an idiot. Also none of these characters interacted much on screen, so we are not shown how big their friendship is.
By Contrast we saw the days trio grow, so I felt bad for them.
I believe the TAV trio faced tragedies, but you could argue RAX and their tragedies were just as bad.
Roxas had to kill his friend. Xion decided to cease to exist. Axel is trying to keep them all together.
Terra is trying to fight the darkness but is taken over by Xehanort.
Aqua is in the realm of darkness roaming around.
Ventus is in deep slumber and only Aqua knows where he is exactly.
Roxas had to kill his friend. Xion decided to cease to exist. Axel is trying to keep them all together.
Terra is trying to fight the darkness but is taken over by Xehanort.
Aqua is in the realm of darkness roaming around.
Ventus is in deep slumber and only Aqua knows where he is exactly.
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