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Kingdom Hearts has way too many cutscenes, that even my Dad said it looked like a movie.
What's your opinion about Sora x Kairi?
- Thread starter Grono
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Its really hard to hold back my criticism on BBS, so I'll pass. Back to the topic, let's not generalize any group because from what we have seen KH doesn't even follow the real world's standard(subjective) for some friendships. KH 3 has too much on its plate, and I've no doubt that my expectations will not be met.
I hope Nomura doesn't pull a Kishimoto. Sora and Kairi get together? Fine, I'll live but I'm not interested in romance. That's why I love KH, I don't have to worry about blatant fan service or rom comedy, despite this series being very cheesy at times.
I hope Nomura doesn't pull a Kishimoto. Sora and Kairi get together? Fine, I'll live but I'm not interested in romance. That's why I love KH, I don't have to worry about blatant fan service or rom comedy, despite this series being very cheesy at times.
Spoiler Show
-ehem, Lea would like to have a chat with you in the back room, please
*cries* Q_Q Poor Vanitas...
I really don't want it Naruto-style, but I really don't think it'll happen. Nomura said Sora will stay the main character (even though this is arguable...).
I feel like Sora and Kairi are, atm, on a level where it doesn't matter if they're "meant to be". Of course they care deeply for each other, but right now, they want to save the worlds and that's their focus. Romances can wait.
Lea is a different kind of fan service. Absent means like panty shots, the whole "i don't like them/i like them, they don't like me" romantic drama seen in most Japanese media, or "glasses guy is love rival"
So true, it hurts!
Sorry for the misunderstanding, absent, I totally get you now LOL
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... Am I the only one who's asking themselves, "Why do we believe that relationships in real life are complicated?" The question's beginning to make my head hurt.
I'm not sure if the relationship between a small group of very good friends is really that complicated or not. I've always had a small group of close friends, which has usually stayed at around three to four people at a time. We all hang out together because we like eachother's company, enjoy talking about similar topics, and it's just become the thing we do during lunchtime. As far as I can tell, things don't get that complicated when you all like and trust eachother enough that you're generally open about most things.
Stuff gets more complicated when you don't have that sort of openness. I see that in both real-life scenarios all the time, when people harbor secrets and opinions that they don't ever let their friends in on. This, from what I've seen, is also what's caused friends like TAV or RAX to go south. You get one or more character with some very important intel, add poor communication to it, and you've got yourself a future broken friendship.
This simplicity that most KH relationships carry could be due to how they're all very strong. It could also be due to how KH's usual format and gameplay doesn't really allow for much downtime to develop these relationships. Days is really the only one that breaks the pacing mold to slow down, something that many people criticize it for.
I'm not sure if the relationship between a small group of very good friends is really that complicated or not. I've always had a small group of close friends, which has usually stayed at around three to four people at a time. We all hang out together because we like eachother's company, enjoy talking about similar topics, and it's just become the thing we do during lunchtime. As far as I can tell, things don't get that complicated when you all like and trust eachother enough that you're generally open about most things.
Stuff gets more complicated when you don't have that sort of openness. I see that in both real-life scenarios all the time, when people harbor secrets and opinions that they don't ever let their friends in on. This, from what I've seen, is also what's caused friends like TAV or RAX to go south. You get one or more character with some very important intel, add poor communication to it, and you've got yourself a future broken friendship.
This simplicity that most KH relationships carry could be due to how they're all very strong. It could also be due to how KH's usual format and gameplay doesn't really allow for much downtime to develop these relationships. Days is really the only one that breaks the pacing mold to slow down, something that many people criticize it for.
I think, at least for me anyways, that romantic relationships are usually complicated on a level. I, along with many other people, know this from experience, and I just think I mean that it can be a lot less complicated coming from Kingdom Hearts. Although I agree with you, it shouldn't be complicated for them anyways, since they are already so close anyways.
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While KH has simple relationships, it's still a good relationship so far. And Nomura, like he has done with everything else, can make it complicated
I agree that Kairi as a character needs more chance to shine on screen and be her own person, but I don't think we have to worry about romance taking over the game at any point, really. There are Disney couples in their worlds, and Goofy and Donald are probably going t tease Sora about couply stuff, but as of yet, there hasn't been much real non-Disney romance. It'll probably just be a small scene in the ending cinematic hinting at the couple, like KH1 and KH2 had.
Do you think if they're going that route, they'd make Kairi's scenes during the game too Sora-oriented and just show her as "that girl he likes" still? I'd really like some RiKai and SoRiKai moments. The SoKai (and SoRiku) relationships are believable enough already, I think.
Do you think if they're going that route, they'd make Kairi's scenes during the game too Sora-oriented and just show her as "that girl he likes" still? I'd really like some RiKai and SoRiKai moments. The SoKai (and SoRiku) relationships are believable enough already, I think.
I kind of feel like at this point if Sora and Kairi have a simple not-complicated relationship it is because there is a lack of development and the relationship (and Kairi) isn't really fleshed out, not because they have an open and trusting relationship. Like, look at Sora and Riku, you can say they have that kind of relationship now, by KH3D, but it took 7 games to get there and they both had to develop and overcome a lot. Kairi and Sora are more or less exactly the same as they were in KH1. They haven't been given that chance to have conflicts and grow. Any chance for conflict + friction is simply side-stepped (Sora telling Kairi she'd get in the way, for example). Kairi isn't really allowed to have her own motivations and feelings about things. She isn't given space to explore how she feels about various plot developments, and definitely not in the way that Riku has. She says at the end of KH2 that she isn't going to be left behind anymore, that wherever one of them goes, the other follows. But then cut to Blank Points and suddenly she is saying goodbye to them. There is nothing showing why she made this change, or her dealing with it, or her being upset with being left behind again or anything like that. She's just fine with it, because the plot wants her to be fine with it. It rings hollow, like Kairi isn't really her own character, her behaviour simply changes to fit what Nomura wants instead of it being consistently developed.
Even if she wasn't going to take the Mark of Mastery or anything like that, for example, why couldn't Kairi still have gone to the Mysterious Tower? Donald and Goofy and Mickey spend like 90% of the game just sitting there talking with Yen Sid. Why couldn't Kairi be a part of that? Why couldn't she wait for her friends to return from there? To be apart of the celebration? If Nomura really was interested, he could have given Lea's story in that game to her, even. (Or have them both do it). It's just, agh. There are always opportunities for Kairi to be more involved in the games, and they just side-step them. It's infuriating. Like, can you imagine how cool it would have been if, after seven games, we got to see a scene like this:
"She made it!" -- KH AU in which Kairi is the one to save Sora.
bleh, sorry i guess I'm drifting a little with the topic. It's just that Kairi is consistently denied the opportunity to be involved and have agency (and even presence!) in the story, and that's likely while SoKai as it currently is seems so simple, because she has hardly been given the chance to be a character at all.
Even if she wasn't going to take the Mark of Mastery or anything like that, for example, why couldn't Kairi still have gone to the Mysterious Tower? Donald and Goofy and Mickey spend like 90% of the game just sitting there talking with Yen Sid. Why couldn't Kairi be a part of that? Why couldn't she wait for her friends to return from there? To be apart of the celebration? If Nomura really was interested, he could have given Lea's story in that game to her, even. (Or have them both do it). It's just, agh. There are always opportunities for Kairi to be more involved in the games, and they just side-step them. It's infuriating. Like, can you imagine how cool it would have been if, after seven games, we got to see a scene like this:
"She made it!" -- KH AU in which Kairi is the one to save Sora.
bleh, sorry i guess I'm drifting a little with the topic. It's just that Kairi is consistently denied the opportunity to be involved and have agency (and even presence!) in the story, and that's likely while SoKai as it currently is seems so simple, because she has hardly been given the chance to be a character at all.
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Absolutely, we are already know they're going to end up together at some point.
Used to be into it. But then I played re:CoM and the way they develop that relationship between Sora and Naminé has a better build up, some complexity and greater emotional investment in it. So much so that thinking back on KH2, one of my biggest problems is how they practically ignored CoM and we get no payoff to their promise. Instead they do this cheap shit job at replicating the same promise with Roxas for the beginning of KH2.
As for KH3, idk, a polygamous relationship between Sora, Riku and Kairi would be great.
As for KH3, idk, a polygamous relationship between Sora, Riku and Kairi would be great.
I agree 100%, DDD was the first title besides Coded that was set after KH2, so it was a chance to learn more about Kairi and her keyblade and actually show that Kairi meant it when she told them she was tired of waiting and wanted to help them.I kind of feel like at this point if Sora and Kairi have a simple not-complicated relationship it is because there is a lack of development and the relationship (and Kairi) isn't really fleshed out, not because they have an open and trusting relationship. Like, look at Sora and Riku, you can say they have that kind of relationship now, by KH3D, but it took 7 games to get there and they both had to develop and overcome a lot. Kairi and Sora are more or less exactly the same as they were in KH1. They haven't been given that chance to have conflicts and grow. Any chance for conflict + friction is simply side-stepped (Sora telling Kairi she'd get in the way, for example). Kairi isn't really allowed to have her own motivations and feelings about things. She isn't given space to explore how she feels about various plot developments, and definitely not in the way that Riku has. She says at the end of KH2 that she isn't going to be left behind anymore, that wherever one of them goes, the other follows. But then cut to Blank Points and suddenly she is saying goodbye to them. There is nothing showing why she made this change, or her dealing with it, or her being upset with being left behind again or anything like that. She's just fine with it, because the plot wants her to be fine with it. It rings hollow, like Kairi isn't really her own character, her behaviour simply changes to fit what Nomura wants instead of it being consistently developed.
Even if she wasn't going to take the Mark of Mastery or anything like that, for example, why couldn't Kairi still have gone to the Mysterious Tower? Donald and Goofy and Mickey spend like 90% of the game just sitting there talking with Yen Sid. Why couldn't Kairi be a part of that? Why couldn't she wait for her friends to return from there? To be apart of the celebration? If Nomura really was interested, he could have given Lea's story in that game to her, even. (Or have them both do it). It's just, agh. There are always opportunities for Kairi to be more involved in the games, and they just side-step them. It's infuriating. Like, can you imagine how cool it would have been if, after seven games, we got to see a scene like this:
"She made it!" -- KH AU in which Kairi is the one to save Sora.
bleh, sorry i guess I'm drifting a little with the topic. It's just that Kairi is consistently denied the opportunity to be involved and have agency (and even presence!) in the story, and that's likely while SoKai as it currently is seems so simple, because she has hardly been given the chance to be a character at all.
But we also need to see Kairi's relations with others and how they motivate her. Part of that will probably include the feelings Sora's has for her and whether she reciprocates or not. As long as they don't reduce Kairi to that entirely (which I'm not entirely sure they won't), I'm all for it, it's been up in the air for a while.
I kind of feel like at this point if Sora and Kairi have a simple not-complicated relationship it is because there is a lack of development and the relationship (and Kairi) isn't really fleshed out, not because they have an open and trusting relationship. Like, look at Sora and Riku, you can say they have that kind of relationship now, by KH3D, but it took 7 games to get there and they both had to develop and overcome a lot. Kairi and Sora are more or less exactly the same as they were in KH1. They haven't been given that chance to have conflicts and grow. Any chance for conflict + friction is simply side-stepped (Sora telling Kairi she'd get in the way, for example). Kairi isn't really allowed to have her own motivations and feelings about things. She isn't given space to explore how she feels about various plot developments, and definitely not in the way that Riku has. She says at the end of KH2 that she isn't going to be left behind anymore, that wherever one of them goes, the other follows. But then cut to Blank Points and suddenly she is saying goodbye to them. There is nothing showing why she made this change, or her dealing with it, or her being upset with being left behind again or anything like that. She's just fine with it, because the plot wants her to be fine with it. It rings hollow, like Kairi isn't really her own character, her behaviour simply changes to fit what Nomura wants instead of it being consistently developed.
Even if she wasn't going to take the Mark of Mastery or anything like that, for example, why couldn't Kairi still have gone to the Mysterious Tower? Donald and Goofy and Mickey spend like 90% of the game just sitting there talking with Yen Sid. Why couldn't Kairi be a part of that? Why couldn't she wait for her friends to return from there? To be apart of the celebration? If Nomura really was interested, he could have given Lea's story in that game to her, even. (Or have them both do it). It's just, agh. There are always opportunities for Kairi to be more involved in the games, and they just side-step them. It's infuriating. Like, can you imagine how cool it would have been if, after seven games, we got to see a scene like this:
"She made it!" -- KH AU in which Kairi is the one to save Sora.
bleh, sorry i guess I'm drifting a little with the topic. It's just that Kairi is consistently denied the opportunity to be involved and have agency (and even presence!) in the story, and that's likely while SoKai as it currently is seems so simple, because she has hardly been given the chance to be a character at all.
...ah, that is a good point. Lea's role being given to her would have been a great twist. It would have been a lot like that scene where she brought him back from the dead in KH.
In retrospect, that would have been a good way to do it. Then she would have already started training and if she were to take some levels in badass in 3 it would make sense because her training had started already
This ^^ I'm hoping we get that promise payoff in 3 and the two can talk and stuff. They mesh so well together
Statements like these just remind me again why I am against this whole romance garbage in KH.
The intent to make one single bond between two characters a special snowflake and devalue the bonds between all other characters.
That's an interesting way to put it. You're quite the poet Sephi.
I could care less for the romance, too. I find the bond between all the characters that they make in order to save their universe much more interesting and beautiful. I think it's wonderful that Sora helps everyone with their problems in every single world, as if each matter counts.
When I replayed 1.5, I was rooting "dude, just tell her you love her", wanting them to get together. I mean the kids obviously have feelings for each other, but the plot has almost completely ignored them post-KH2. Granted, BBS was 10 years before KH1, Re:Coded didn't even focus on the real Sora and Kairi, and 3D was about Riku. COM and Days made it perfectly clear how much Kairi means to Sora and more or less the other way around (Xion looks like Kairi because she's made of Sora's strongest memories - those of Kairi; and the "we were never anything more [than friends] either" comment said it all).
The two have barely had any time together. Kairi's been the princess that needed rescuing in I, stayed behind while Sora went off to the depths of hell to fight Ansem, and was returned to the islands for the next year or so. Then she's kidnapped and held prisoner. And yes, they definitely fumbled the ball with the reunion. More emphasis was put onto Sora and Riku's reunion than Sora and Kairi's.
Romance never seems to be a focus of the series. Which is fine, not all series have to have romance. But if you're building something up, pay it off. Granted, III being a big finale and benchmark for the series means that we'll likely have some resolution for Sora and Kairi. They'll probably end up together, but the series has been focusing on the plot and mythology over their largely aborted romance.
So, I'm indifferent. I would like to see them get together, and it'll probably happen. I'd also like a side of Roxas x Xion. And Master Aqua x me.
The two have barely had any time together. Kairi's been the princess that needed rescuing in I, stayed behind while Sora went off to the depths of hell to fight Ansem, and was returned to the islands for the next year or so. Then she's kidnapped and held prisoner. And yes, they definitely fumbled the ball with the reunion. More emphasis was put onto Sora and Riku's reunion than Sora and Kairi's.
Romance never seems to be a focus of the series. Which is fine, not all series have to have romance. But if you're building something up, pay it off. Granted, III being a big finale and benchmark for the series means that we'll likely have some resolution for Sora and Kairi. They'll probably end up together, but the series has been focusing on the plot and mythology over their largely aborted romance.
So, I'm indifferent. I would like to see them get together, and it'll probably happen. I'd also like a side of Roxas x Xion. And Master Aqua x me.
I definitely apologize if that came off as diminishing any other dynamic in the game as that certainly wasn't the intention. Eclipse, I think, was the wrong word. What I should have said is that this dynamic stands out because of things that occur right in the game; Kairi's heart goes to Sora upon her losing it and later it is the absence of his memories of her (which are said to be the ones most important to him) that prevent him from waking up because they've gone to Xion. To me, these circumstances symbolize a special bond between the two characters and the same could also be said between Sora and Ventus (by the way, I definitely look forward to those two meeting and dynamic being explored as well)
As far as Sora and Kairi though, highlighting this bond and relationship further doesn't have to diminish or take away from anything else if done correctly. It's okay if you would rather not see that side - or relationships in general - emphasized in the game at all; I would even go as far to say that I'd rather see it not done at all rather than done incorrectly or in bad taste.
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