Too much KH2 hate?

[*TwilightNight*]

Let's re-write it so it makes sense:

Roxas: Why are you trying to stop me?
Riku: Because now Xion's dead anyway, I want back the rest of Sora's memories.
Roxas: Sora? But that's the guy I'm trying to find! You know him?
Riku: ...I'm not allowed to be friendly to you, otherwise we won't get to have our epic Deep Dive fight.
Roxas: Oh yeah. Damn. Well then... I guess... enough about Sora!
Riku: Do you have some kind of plan? Other than... to find Sora? Who you don't want to hear about?
Roxas: I'm going to set Kingdom Hearts free, like Xion told me to! Then everything will go back to the way it was!
Riku: You're insane. What's that got to do with Sora? And who told you Kingdom Hearts would turn back time??
Roxas: Uh, no one. But my original reason for leaving the Organisation was to find out why the Keyblade chose me... so I need to want to find Sora... and I'm just trying to figure out how Xion being my main motivation fits in!
Riku: You really are insane.
Roxas: Shut up!! I didn't write this stupid plot, okay!!

Do not feed more of my hatred of scene xP.

More like...

*76 days later* and *52 days later*
s1angrypple

Didn't know how many days he waited until he finally decided to stop messing with the audience and get off his ass, so I just swung at it. I honestly didn't think it was THAT bad. This in total makes 128 days of doing crap the moment he found what was stopping Sora's memory progress. Diz, of all people.

Yet, I guess everyone had to stop time to wait for Xion.

Just...*pretends Days doesn't exist*

Leave me in my dream world ;~;.

 

[Gram]

Roxas: Why are you trying to stop me?
Riku: Because now Xion's dead anyway, I want back the rest of Sora's memories.
Roxas: Sora? But that's the guy I'm trying to find! You know him?
Riku: ...I'm not allowed to be friendly to you, otherwise we won't get to have our epic Deep Dive fight.
Roxas: Oh yeah. Damn. Well then... I guess... enough about Sora!
Riku: Do you have some kind of plan? Other than... to find Sora? Who you don't want to hear about?
Roxas: I'm going to set Kingdom Hearts free, like Xion told me to! Then everything will go back to the way it was!
Riku: You're insane. What's that got to do with Sora? And who told you Kingdom Hearts would turn back time??
Roxas: Uh, no one. But my original reason for leaving the Organisation was to find out why the Keyblade chose me... so I need to want to find Sora... and I'm just trying to figure out how Xion being my main motivation fits in!
Riku: You really are insane.
Roxas: Shut up!! I didn't write this stupid plot, okay!!

omg, LMFAO XD
best post EVER!

 

[Reika]

GP and Twi, you both are hysterical.

 

[Goldpanner]

But when it actually did have story, at least it was better than KH2's.

I don't think the story was better than KH2. At least Sora did stuff. Roxas, who was meant to be the main character, didn't do ANYTHING. His entire self-discovery arc was transplanted into Xion, who was
a) not the protagonist
b) not already relevant to KH2 in its prequel and
c) mainly seen through moping and flashbacks.

I found the non-Disney plot of Days like pulling teeth. Xion goes missing three times, with the same plot-arc of 'worry about her-->have to go find her' each of the three times. Sora's memory also appears to 'stop' twice, on Day 300 and then again 50 days later, with DiZ saying what amounts to 'Xion must die!! dun dun DUNNN!' both times. The pacing was terrible in my opinion, with everything of note happening in the last 50-odd days, and so much time that could have been spent on other things was wasted on silent scenes of eating ice-cream. Which they did every. Day. For one whole year.

And to top it off, there was nothing remotely interesting to me about the character of Xion. I mean, call me strange, but I love it when characters have flaws. I love it when they make mistakes, when they learn from them, when they grow as people. I can't name one single time when Xion did. Everything she did, she did for the sake of others. Even running away to find out about herself was mainly because she realised her existence was hurting Roxas. And even though there was that 'heart-warming' scene under the beautiful sunset about relying on your friends, she never learns to. She chooses to nobly deal with all her burdens alone, rather than drag the people she cares about into the mess.

And because the people she cares about include Roxas, the main character... he does nothing except stand on the sidelines for most of the story.

Then at the end, when he finally takes matters into his own hands, the plot starts making no sense. Freeing Kingdom Hearts will revive Xion and fix things with Axel? He wants to find Sora, but he tells Riku to shut up about Sora? And what has finding Sora got to do with avenging Xion and freeing Kingdom Hearts anyway? It's a product of the writers trying to mash together 'Xion's dying wish' with 'stuff we knew since KH2', and it makes no sense to me at all.

/rant

At least Sora was driving his own story, and at least I gave a damn about Sora and his goals.

Although there were some parts that I didn't get, like
-Why Riku didn't take Xion to Sora, who's his best friend to save him
-Why Xion tells Roxas to kill Mansex and release Kingdom Hearts, but once he's in TWTNW, she wants Riku to stop him...

=/

Sooo many things didn't make sense. You can usually explain them with 'because Xion is ~special~ and has to be referenced in most scenes'...

Though I really think KH2's Disney implementation was worse, because at least Days Disney worlds connected somewhat since the Org. was constantly there, killing the Heartless that were causing problems, etc. But the story as a whole was worse than KH2 since it dragged on far too long.

Had they actually given some more in-depth character development on Xaldin, Demyx, Luxord, Xigbar, Saix and Mansex, perhaps the story wouldn't have felt so slow.

Also the way CO was implemented made me upset.

I agree with all this, too. But, I don't see how the Disney worlds in KH2 were any more random than the ones in KH1. You're looking for Riku and Keyholes and fighting baddies... isn't it the same thing?

 

[Organization_42]

Really? ^^; Go ahead, it's just one of the things that pissed me off mostly. Everything was Xionified for absolutely no reason.

It was linear; it was the typical "defeat Big Boss in the end while fighting his minions before him", with lack of depth. Even the reunions were lackluster, especially between Sora and Roxas.

Thanks!

I know...but...but...it was like ice cream! It might be filler but it made me happy!

Except the Pride Lands. Stupid, useless, effin'...

Nala: Gosh, things are really terrible around here! If only Simba wasn't dead; he'd put things right!
Sora: But Simba's not dead!
Nala: WHAT?! Well, let's go find him then!
*one cutscene later, we hear a distant ROAR*
Nala: Why, that simply MUST be Simba!
*several cutscenes later*
Simba: RAWR!
Nala: RAWR!
Sora: Wait, dude, that's Nala!
Nala: SIMBA? ZOMG YOU'RE ALIVE??!?!
Me: Wait...didn't we just HAVE this conversation?!

And don't get me started on Will. "I'd be helping you guys fight, but I've never seen Heartless before." Gee, I'm sure glad that didn't stop you from tackling UNDEAD SKELETON PIRATES in the movie! Or do you just have a really messed up childhood, Will, where you saw zombies on a daily basis?

Then at the end, when he finally takes matters into his own hands, the plot starts making no sense. Freeing Kingdom Hearts will revive Xion and fix things with Axel? He wants to find Sora, but he tells Riku to shut up about Sora? And what has finding Sora got to do with avenging Xion and freeing Kingdom Hearts anyway? It's a product of the writers trying to mash together 'Xion's dying wish' with 'stuff we knew since KH2', and it makes no sense to me at all.

This is probably going to sound like a really stupid explanation, but I figure that Roxas' plans are self-contradictory and irrational because Xion's death really did a number on his brain. The poor kid was just forced to kill one of his best friends and she died in his arms. So he wouldn't exactly be firing on all cylinders to begin with. He's in shock.

Basically I don't think his plans made much sense because he didn't really know what to do or how to fix things. He wanted Axel and Xion back and he wanted to go back to the way things were, but he hadn't yet come to accept that this simply wasn't going to happen. Then, before she died, Xion told him to stop Xemnas and release the captive hearts in Kingdom Hearts. So it's like she gave him a goal and something he could focus all of his anger, confusion, and grief on. My guess is that, in his mind, he combined the two goals into one out of desperation.

Yeah, I'm not making any sense at all, am I? I know how I feel about it; I just can't express it properly.

 

[Reika]

I agree with all this, too. But, I don't see how the Disney worlds in KH2 were any more random than the ones in KH1. You're looking for Riku and Keyholes and fighting baddies... isn't it the same thing?

Although I love KH2, I agree that the Disney plots didn't connect to the overall plot like KH1 did.
And it wasn't really the same thing, actually. xD

KH1: Overall plot includes SDG as protagonists; Maleficent, Hades, Jafar, Ursula, Oogie Boogie, and Captain Hook as a group villain; Riku as an antagonist; Ansem SoD as overall villain, taking over that role after most of the group villains are destroyed (the group villains WERE the main villains for the majority of the game, though); Sora searching for Kairi, rescuing the PoHs, sealing Keyholes; Donald and Goofy searching for the King, and aiding Sora in his quest.
Disney World Connections of KH1:
Traverse Town: Big connection - world plot revolves around what the main villains did the TT's inhabitents, and the world serves as a sort of base for SDG
Wonderland: Small connection - world plot centers around Alice, a character who is important to the overall plot, and her kidnapping that aids the overall group villains
Olympus Colliseum: Very small connection - the main villain of that world is part of the overall group villains, but the world plot doesn't connect to the overall plot
Deep Jungle: Very small connection - SDG discover keyholes, an important aspect of Sora's journey, but otherwise, the world plot does not connect to the overall plot
Agrabah: Big connection - the world plot centers around helping Aladdin save Jasmine, and the whole world plot has to do with trying to stop the aid of the overall group villains, so the world plot is a HUGE connection to the overall plot, since, if the world plot was taken away, so would a good chunk of the overall plot (taking away the world plots of the first three Disney worlds would only take out small bits from the overall plot)
Monstro: Moderate connection - the world plot centers mostly around the dividing friendship of Sora and Riku, and their search for Kairi
Atlantica: Big connection - the main world villain is part of the overall group villains, and her actions in this world center around her cause that would effect the overall plot
Halloween Town: Big connection - the main world villain is part of the overall group villains, and his actions in this world center around his cause that would effect the overall plot
Neverland: Big connection - the main world villain is part of the overall group villains, and his actions in this world center around his cause that would effect the overall plot. This world also shows the evermore dividing friendship of Sora and Riku, and their shared cause to save the lifeless Kairi, whom Riku has found. Plus, it touches a bit on the subject of the PoHs, a big part of the overall plot.
Hollow Bastion: Big connection - the world plot basically IS the main plot, as everything that happens in this world has to do directly with the overall plot (Kairi, Riku, Ansem SoD, the plans of the main villains and their demises, the PoHs, the final Keyhole, you get the point)
End of the World: Big connection - same as above, the world plot basically IS the main plot, as everything that happens in this world has to do directly with the overall plot (Ansem SoD and his demise, the destroyed worlds)

KH2: Overall plot includes SDG as protagonists; Maleficent and Pete as side villains; Organization 13 as main villains; Sora searching for Riku, trying to stop the evil deeds of Organization 13, stopping the few misdeeds of Maleficent and Pete, and saving Kairi from the main villains; Donald and Goofy searching for the King and aiding Sora in his quest.
Disney World Connections of KH2:
Twilight Town: Big connection - the world plot has almost everything to do with the overall main plot, mainly the secrets revolving around Roxas, as well as serving as a bit of an information source for other things (Kairi's kidnapping, Saix's introduction, the news of Axel betraying the Organization), and the world is what leads SDG to The World That Never Was
Hollow Bastion/Radient Garden: Big connection - the world plot has almost everything to do with the overall main plot, mainly the secrets revolving around AtW and Xehanort, both of him are a big impact on the story (hell, the mysteries surrounding them are half the story)
The Land of Dragons: First trip - no connection. Second trip - moderate connection - Sora gains small clues concerning the whereabouts of Riku, and Organization 13 attacks this world for their own purposes, which Sora must put a stop to
Beast's Castle: Big connection for both trips - the world plot centers around what Xaldin, a main villain, has been doing, and finally ends in his demise
Olympus Colliseum: First trip - small connection - Demyx makes a small cameo and causes minor problems for the protagonists; Pete makes a slightly larger cameo by taking Meg hostage to help Hades, but his actions have little to do with his and Maleficent's plans. Second trip - no connection
Disney Castle: Moderate connection - the world plot centers around Maleficent's plans with Pete
Space Paranoids: No connection - (I feel an explanation is needed as to why, since it effects Hollow Bastion/Radient Garden, which is a big connection) nothing that happens in this world has to do with the main antagonists or aiding in SDG's quest to find Riku, the King, and Kairi
Atlantica: No connection
Port Royal: First trip - very small connection - Pete makes a small appearence, his goal to recruit the world villains. Second trip - moderate connection - the world plot this time centers around Luxord and his actions in this world for the Organzation
Agrabah: First trip - small connection - Pete makes a slight appearence and brings forth the first bosses, but his actions are minor. Second trip - very small connection - the Organization is briefly mentioned as wanting to turn Jafar into a heartless, but otherwise, no connection
Halloween Town: First trip - small connection - Maleficent makes an appearence and revives Oogie Boogie as part of her plans. Second trip - no connection
Pride Lands: First trip - small connection - Pete makes an appearence with the goal of turning Scar into a heartless to aid him and Maleficent. Second trip - no connection
The World That Never Was: Big connection - the world has EVERYTHING to do with the overall plot, since this is the home of the overall plot villains, as well as the place where they all meet their demise, and Sora finds Riku and Kairi before the three are FINALLY able to return home together

See? The connections of the Disney world plots to the overall main plot are minor compared to KH1. They hold little to no relevence to the main plot of KH2.

 

[Goldpanner]

This is probably going to sound like a really stupid explanation, but I figure that Roxas' plans are self-contradictory and irrational because Xion's death really did a number on his brain. The poor kid was just forced to kill one of his best friends and she died in his arms. So he wouldn't exactly be firing on all cylinders to begin with. He's in shock.

It's just hard to think of it like that when from the Deep Dive secret movie he looked like a badass in leather on a mission. And from KH2, even, he sounded forceful and driven. In KH2 we were led to believe that the scene in which Roxas left Axel and the scene in which he fought Riku probably happened not too far from each other (being in the same world and all, I for one didn't assume he'd left in between).
So you get Roxas going, 'why did the Keyblade choose me? I have to know." and being all cutting and forceful, then we get him striding around in TWTNW, then fighting Riku, and again being forceful. "Shut up!!"
YouTube - Collection of Roxas scenes from Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix
^See? Now I'm meant to think he was scrambled and in shock and not thinking clearly...? I dunno, it just messes with my pre-conceptions...

Yeah, I'm not making any sense at all, am I? I know how I feel about it; I just can't express it properly.

I know what you mean but I really think it's just the writers grasping at straws, because they wanted to combine the two goals. They had gone and created Xion, and wanted her to be Roxas' main motivation--even though they didn't really factor it into the original.

See? The connections of the Disney world plots to the overall main plot are minor compared to KH1. They hold little to no relevence to the main plot of KH2.

I think though, that this was part of what Sora said when the trio reunited:

Sora: Riku... It's Riku. Riku's here...
(Sora falls to his knees, holding Ansem's hand, tears rolling down his face)
Sora: I looked for you!
Riku: C'mon, Sora. You've got to pull it together.
Sora: I looked everywhere for you!

It was true; he did look everywhere. And he didn't really find all that many clues, unlike in KH1. I personally felt that kind of hopelessness; of course Sora would find Riku, I believed it as much as Sora himself did, but it made the reunion so much more... heartfelt :3 Especially since in a lot of those no-connection worlds, Sora was just helping old friends. And it ended up like everyone was getting happy endings except him...

 

[Cryptvill]

First post, came here to talk KhII

I am a huge fan of KH I it is simply amazing, this KH II has been great up until about the time I got to be sora. Everything in this game so far has been a one road completely easy thing. It basically points you to treasure chests and tells you what to do (damn info line). Everything is right in front of me. I loved KH I becuase i could use some skill in defeating things, or do things a little differently.

 

[Chaosmax]

It was a great game, story ok, gameplay is much better in my opnion, the only thing I hated was that it was so easy. I mean come on if your going to make Xemnas the final boss at least give him some better abilities like he was in KHFM.

 

[ajmrowland]

Riku fought Roxas cause he thought Roxas wouold've been too stubborn to believe anyone. I mean, he was lied to his whole life about getting a heart and stuff and he was treated like crap, and it took Xion for him to realize.

 

[Lelouch]

Final Mix pretty much fix most of my main beef with KH2. Other than that it's the best KH game at least before BbS came out IMO. I felt that it was a huge improvement over KH1. KH1 wasn't really all that special in hindsight. The story didn't even start to get really good until HB. All it had was nostalgia.

 

[Riku191]

i hate two things about it

1.theres no challenge

kh1 u needed to be high lvl and do stuff kh2 - mash x and ur pro...in kh2 its just 2 dam easy , i dont even bother lvling i beat it at around 40-45 to make it more challenging u actually have to weaken yourself to make it seem more fun

2. the returning to worlds i would really prefer playing threw a long world then just staying for a bit leaving then coming back and seeing 'omg sora more heartless'

 

[ajmrowland]

^get Final Mix+ and you'll take that argument back in a second.

Although I love KH2, I agree that the Disney plots didn't connect to the overall plot like KH1 did.
And it wasn't really the same thing, actually. xD

KH1: Overall plot includes SDG as protagonists; Maleficent, Hades, Jafar, Ursula, Oogie Boogie, and Captain Hook as a group villain; Riku as an antagonist; Ansem SoD as overall villain, taking over that role after most of the group villains are destroyed (the group villains WERE the main villains for the majority of the game, though); Sora searching for Kairi, rescuing the PoHs, sealing Keyholes; Donald and Goofy searching for the King, and aiding Sora in his quest.
Disney World Connections of KH1:
Traverse Town: Big connection - world plot revolves around what the main villains did the TT's inhabitents, and the world serves as a sort of base for SDG
Wonderland: Small connection - world plot centers around Alice, a character who is important to the overall plot, and her kidnapping that aids the overall group villains
Olympus Colliseum: Very small connection - the main villain of that world is part of the overall group villains, but the world plot doesn't connect to the overall plot
Deep Jungle: Very small connection - SDG discover keyholes, an important aspect of Sora's journey, but otherwise, the world plot does not connect to the overall plot
Agrabah: Big connection - the world plot centers around helping Aladdin save Jasmine, and the whole world plot has to do with trying to stop the aid of the overall group villains, so the world plot is a HUGE connection to the overall plot, since, if the world plot was taken away, so would a good chunk of the overall plot (taking away the world plots of the first three worlds would only take out small bits from the overall plot)
Monstro: Moderate connection - the world plot centers mostly around the dividing friendship of Sora and Riku, and their search for Kairi
Atlantica: Big connection - the main world villain is part of the overall group villains, and her actions in this world center around her cause that would effect the overall plot
Halloween Town: Big connection - the main world villain is part of the overall group villains, and his actions in this world center around his cause that would effect the overall plot
Neverland: Big connection - the main world villain is part of the overall group villains, and his actions in this world center around his cause that would effect the overall plot. This world also shows the evermore dividing friendship of Sora and Riku, and their shared cause to save the lifeless Kairi, whom Riku has found. Plus, it touches a bit on the subject of the PoHs, a big part of the overall plot.
Hollow Bastion: Big connection - the world plot basically IS the main plot, as everything that happens in this world has to do directly with the overall plot (Kairi, Riku, Ansem SoD, the plans of the main villains and their demises, the PoHs, the final Keyhole, you get the point)
End of the World: Big connection - same as above, the world plot basically IS the main plot, as everything that happens in this world has to do directly with the overall plot (Ansem SoD and his demise, the destroyed worlds)

I liked this. As opposed to just following the film plots, it's clear instantly that the films are abruptly interrupted by the overall plot of the game. This is lacking in KH2.

KH2:

Port Royal: First trip - no connection. Second trip - moderate connection - the world plot this time centers around Luxord and his actions in this world for the Organzation

I'd say the main plot wasnt relevant, but Maleficent and Pete were recruiting then. small connection.

Agrabah:

First trip - small connection - Pete makes a slight appearence and brings forth the first bosses, but his actions are minor. Second trip - no connection

but the Organization is mentioned in the second trip. it turns out they wanted to make Jafar a Heartless.

 

[Reika]

I'd say the main plot wasnt relevant, but Maleficent and Pete were recruiting then. small connection.
but the Organization is mentioned in the second trip. it turns out they wanted to make Jafar a Heartless.

Forgot about those, thanks for bringing them to my attention. =) It's been fixed to include those.

 

[Azrael]

Oh wow. But still the worlds seemed like filler in KHII.

 

[Gram]

Oh wow. But still the worlds seemed like filler in KHII.

alot of that was cause they make u vist them twice x3

 

[ajmrowland]

I have a feeling all this "filler" might pay off in KHIII.

Think about it: Maleficent being back and well on her way to the top, rebuilding a team of Villains.

According to Nomura, Xehanort should return, and maybe we'll see some of former Org. XIII with him-with other members joining Sora's cause.

You get where I'm going?

3-way war of the worlds. Not a fully open war-until some bigass battle that is-but a war nonetheless. It seems to me to be the only logical direction to take the next huge installment of the series.s1demteeth

 

[Silh]

^get Final Mix+ and you'll take that argument back in a second.

I never understood this argument.

 

[Allister Rose]

final mix had a better storyline and of course more insight on organization XIII.

 

[Ophan]

final mix had a better storyline and of course more insight on organization XIII.

Storyline?? Lol i have the game, not much of the story has changed, however all the Extra's even the difficulty levels, and the nice addition of CoM was a plus. It made KH2 more worthwhile, and much more fun. It didn't really help the story at all, however it would have reduced the original amount of games had it not been rushed.