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Theory about the development of the "mystery" game



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Ikkin

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I was thinking about the "mystery KH game" again, and I've come up with a theory of sorts.

First, the context.

The "mystery" KH game was first referenced in March 2010, when Nomura claimed that there were two KH games in development other than Kingdom Hearts 3, one of which would be out that year.

It was believed that the "mystery" game would show up at E3 2010, and Re:coded showed up at that convention with a 2010 release date. However, Nomura made it clear that Re:coded ''wasn't'' in fact the "mystery" game -- rather, Re:coded's existence meant that "one game was added" (wish I had a reference for this, but I definitely remember reading it firsthand from a trustworthy source) and the original "mystery" game had instead been removed from its intended E3 showing.

As of the Re:coded Ultimania interview (the last time the "mystery" game was properly mentioned), Nomura was saying that he had intended to hint at a different project from Re:coded, 3D, and Birth by Sleep Final Mix when he made that initial quote, but that 3D and Birth by Sleep Final Mix came first (with the implication being that he couldn't say anything else about that project at that time).

So. Something seems fishy here.

If Re:coded ''wasn't'' the game Nomura was referring when he made the "two games before KH3, with one releasing in 2010" comment, that means that (at the time), Nomura was expecting the "mystery" game to have a very quick turnaround. If it was a direct sequel to Birth by Sleep, as hinted in the FM ending, that wouldn't have been insurmountable, since most of the necessary assets would already exist.

But then, why make it disappear the way it did? Even if they couldn't have gotten it out in 2010 like they wanted, they certainly could have finished it by 2011, which was left without a proper full release (since they admitted outright that BbSFM didn't really count towards the one-game-per-year goal). And, if it was ''just'' a PSP sequel to Birth by Sleep, it would pose virtually no threat at all to 3D's sales, since no one would be investing in a new system for it. If it was, instead, a 3DS sequel, it could actually likely help 3D's sales by moving people over to that system sooner (if it came out earlier) or giving people another future release to look forward to on the system (if it came out later). Why not show it?

Here's my theory: the "mystery" game changed platforms sometime between March 2010 and E3 2010, and that platform change made it much more likely to spoil their existing plans than it would have been otherwise. Nomura and the KH team seem to be very receptive to suggestions from platform holders; he essentially said outright that KH3D was put on 3DS and 358/2 Days existed in large part because Nintendo approached him to make games for their systems. If Sony handed him a new handheld and suggested that he'd probably be able to sell more than 400k copies of his next game in the West if he didn't release on the floundering PSP platform, he might have found that rather appealing too.

Of course, a Vita game would be a much larger prospect than a quick second PSP game, likely requiring the entirety of the Osaka team to help develop it, and could potentially wreak havoc with 3D's sales potential if that game pulled a Versus and ended up sucking up all of the fandom's attention too soon due to being the first proper increase in graphical quality we've had since KH2. And so, Squenix corporate could have relegated that game to the same fate as Versus -- total non-disclosure, at least until they find it convenient to release information again.

One other thing that's rather interesting in light of the mystery of the missing "mystery" game is the Secret Episode of Birth by Sleep Final Mix. It's not too hard to imagine that, if the Secret Episode is supposed to directly hint at the "mystery" game, the Realm of Darkness assets that they used for it might have been intended to have a different/dual purpose originally. ;)
 

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I thought the mystery game was BBS v.2? Or is it not?
Officially we don't know what BbS v.2 is... it could be anything at this point (as far as we know)... It could be FFVIIAC Style Movie, it could be a "Reverse/Rebirth" for DDD, or anything

But since he mentioned a second game, BbS v.2 would seem to fit that role nicely, so only Nomura knows
 

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It sounds like the most likely candidate for the mystery game. So I'm going to assume it is.
"BBSv2" was never even a candidate. Its just a fan title people call the mystery game because of the secret ending. There was a time when people called an in-development-game (forgot which) RECONNECT Kingdom Hearts because of the KH2 ending. It's the same thing here.
 

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I like how everyone in this thread has totally let the whole concept of the mystery game and the silence on the matter go right over their head, and instead decided to discuss the game's name. o_o Way to go guys.





Ikkin, I pretty much always agree with you when it comes to the mystery game and this is no exception. You bring up a really good point with the possibility of it having changed systems. I never considered that Nomura's silence on "BBSv2" or the "mystery game" was due to the fact he had originally conceived it for the PSP and then was forced to reconsider it being on the PSVita.

With that being said, of course they would keep it "hush hush". They must know that if they put a KH game on both the 3DS and PSVita and they announced that to the fans before either game's release, that they would have had a 'console war' of types between the fan base.

We were all butt hurt enough at the mere notion of "BBSv2" landing on the PSVita when BBSFM's secret episode came out. I recall all of the forum being up in arms about having to buy both of the brand new handhelds "just to keep up with KH". So, if that were actually the case, of course they would let the mystery game fall on the back burner until KH3D had its time in the lime light.

They're not stupid enough to hurt both games sales, and if they do it this way... most of us might have had enough time to save for the PSVita or will already own it, by the time the game is announced/released.
 

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I think it's likely that BBSV2 was canned at one point, ever since Square-Enix needed to do some financial adjustments to itself since sales weren't as good as they'd hoped. I can't remember when exactly that was, but definitely after BBS FM was released.

I think it got merged with 3D in some way, perhaps in a Reverse:Rebirth kind of a manner.
 

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Come E3 or TGS this year we'll probably get BBSv2 officially announced
 

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I think it got merged with 3D in some way, perhaps in a Reverse:Rebirth kind of a manner.
I'm very curious as to why you and several other members seem to think this.

BBSv2 and DDD have very little in common; DDD deals with Sora and Riku running through the RoS with inter-spliced scenes that reveal Xehanort the Apprentices'n actions and will lead to KH3/let us know in what form/s Xehanort has returned.
BBSv2 was more about "filling in the gaps" of the KH universe, and that was about much more than Xehanort or Riku.

Sure, we can argue that Riku and Xehanort's off-screen scenes have all been moved to DDD. But what about the rest? There's a very blatant Aqua scenario that simply can't fit into DDD, because it would involve a completely different level design. Reverse/Rebirth worked because it was the same Castle, the same worlds, but in a different way. It wouldn't work for DDD to have BBSv2's elements in it.
 

Ikkin

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I think it's likely that BBSV2 was canned at one point, ever since Square-Enix needed to do some financial adjustments to itself since sales weren't as good as they'd hoped. I can't remember when exactly that was, but definitely after BBS FM was released.

I think it got merged with 3D in some way, perhaps in a Reverse:Rebirth kind of a manner.
How would it be better for their financials to put more work into one game that won't even sell more as a result than to make a second game using the same stuff? >_>; That doesn't make any sense at all.

Plus, Square-Enix never cancels anything major for KH or FF, no matter how quiet they go on it. Remember Agito -> Type-0?

And...

I'm very curious as to why you and several other members seem to think this.

BBSv2 and DDD have very little in common; DDD deals with Sora and Riku running through the RoS with inter-spliced scenes that reveal Xehanort the Apprentices'n actions and will lead to KH3/let us know in what form/s Xehanort has returned.
BBSv2 was more about "filling in the gaps" of the KH universe, and that was about much more than Xehanort or Riku.

Sure, we can argue that Riku and Xehanort's off-screen scenes have all been moved to DDD. But what about the rest? There's a very blatant Aqua scenario that simply can't fit into DDD, because it would involve a completely different level design. Reverse/Rebirth worked because it was the same Castle, the same worlds, but in a different way. It wouldn't work for DDD to have BBSv2's elements in it.
...everything Taocha said. Thanks, Taocha!
 

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(since they admitted outright that BbSFM didn't really count towards the one-game-per-year goal).
Could you perhaps just link that? Thanks.

And console swapping is a likely reason, yes. I wish 3D and the "mystery game" were both coming out on the 3DS and the Vita.


Officially we don't know what BbS v.2 is... it could be anything at this point (as far as we know)... It could be FFVIIAC Style Movie, it could be a "Reverse/Rebirth" for DDD, or anything
Well, when one calls it the "mystery game" it tends to make people think it's a game.
 

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Personally I think the secret ending to FM+ is the beginning of KH3, it would be kind of cool to start out in a darkness place in the beginning
 

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Taocha said:
Sure, we can argue that Riku and Xehanort's off-screen scenes have all been moved to DDD. But what about the rest? There's a very blatant Aqua scenario that simply can't fit into DDD, because it would involve a completely different level design. Reverse/Rebirth worked because it was the same Castle, the same worlds, but in a different way. It wouldn't work for DDD to have BBSv2's elements in it.
I'm not convinced that BBSv2 is supposed to have an Aqua scenario. There are practically no characters in the Realm of Darkness, and thus there probably isn't enough substance to base an entire story around. BBS:fm already had a short chapter of Aqua fighting waves of Heartless, and I think her time in the Realm of Darkness was just more of that.

I think the most mysterious thing about the BBS:fm secret ending is how it had scenes that couldn't have possibly happened yet. It makes me think that part of the installment will be set after KH2, even if the game focuses on trying to fill in the gaps of the past.
 

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I'm not convinced that BBSv2 is supposed to have an Aqua scenario. There are practically no characters in the Realm of Darkness, and thus there probably isn't enough substance to base an entire story around. BBS:fm already had a short chapter of Aqua fighting waves of Heartless, and I think her time in the Realm of Darkness was just more of that.

I think the most mysterious thing about the BBS:fm secret ending is how it had scenes that couldn't have possibly happened yet. It makes me think that part of the installment will be set after KH2, even if the game focuses on trying to fill in the gaps of the past.
And how do you know that? Did you not remember that the PoH's worlds were taken into the RoD? There would have to be people in those worlds because they surely did not go to the RoS.

Do you even remember how the RoD was set up in the Secret Episode of BBSFM? It was like playing a quick demo of another game. You got items you couldn't use, a Keyblade you couldn't alter, and explored areas that had names like "Lower Zone" "Upper Zone" and "Valley of Darkness", and fought enemies that had no bearing on the overall progress of the game.

It's obviously going to have Aqua considering she is the one in the RoD.
 

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I'm very curious as to why you and several other members seem to think this.
Well I thought (before we had any real details on DDD) that it would be BbS v.2, given what Ansem said about Births by Sleep... I thought since the game deals with worlds enclosed in sleep, and has a large focus on it, it would logically go on with that

However, since learning what the game is about, and seeing two empty character spots next to Sora/Riku on the website, I've thought that there may be a "Reverse/Rebirth" style element in this game (I also think this because Nomura said that only part of the game will take place in the MoM) We don't know what all a BbS v.2 would cover, but it's just a possibility that it could happen in DDD
 

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Well I thought (before we had any real details on DDD) that it would be BbS v.2, given what Ansem said about Births by Sleep... I thought since the game deals with worlds enclosed in sleep, and has a large focus on it, it would logically go on with that

However, since learning what the game is about, and seeing two empty character spots next to Sora/Riku on the website, I've thought that there may be a "Reverse/Rebirth" style element in this game (I also think this because Nomura said that only part of the game will take place in the MoM) We don't know what all a BbS v.2 would cover, but it's just a possibility that it could happen in DDD
Those slots can easily be filled by Kairi and Xehanort. He said only a part of the game was the MoM meaning that the MoM will not last the entire game. The game is still all Sora and Riku.
 

JustSnilloc

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Those slots can easily be filled by Kairi and Xehanort. He said only a part of the game was the MoM meaning that the MoM will not last the entire game. The game is still all Sora and Riku.
perhaps, the bolded part has yet to be seen though
 

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perhaps, the bolded part has yet to be seen though
Well then, how wouldn't it. Come on, surely if you're saying that you have some idea as to when the game would stop being about them, who takes over, the plot for the rest of the game, and worlds.
 

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Well then, how wouldn't it. Come on, surely if you're saying that you have some idea as to when the game would stop being about them, who takes over, the plot for the rest of the game, and worlds.
I've already said that in a possible "Reverse/Rebirth" style game element, other characters would be played as
 
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