The mystery surrounding the existences of Namine and Vanitas.

[Anagram]

Tbh he probably hasn't put much thought into explaining Namine until the small but all but forgotten hint in Days at this point. (Vexens book)

So Xemnas inversed Namines birthing process with Xion?

 

[Audo]

Personally, I feel like her existence was adequately explained lol.

 

[BlackOsprey]

Personally, I feel like her existence was adequately explained lol.

This.

I think the reason why some might think her existence isn't well-explained is because we're probably going much more in-depth than we were supposed to. For one thing, last time I checked (correct me if I'm wrong, please), there's no canonical source that states that creating a Heartless is directly linked to negative emotions. While darkness can feed on negative feelings, just about everything I've read has stated that Heartless are formed when a heart falls to darkness (or more specifically, gets consumed by it from the inside out or is ripped out of the body by another Heartless). Xemnas also mentioned that Apprenticenort's experiments with creating Heartless were attempts to "control the mind and make it renounce its sense of self." Basically, the heart literally loses its identity, and a Heartless is formed out of that.

 

[Michael Mario]

Tbh he probably hasn't put much thought into explaining Namine until the small but all but forgotten hint in Days at this point. (Vexens book)

So Xemnas inversed Namines birthing process with Xion?

To be fair, unlike Roxas or Xehanort, the nature of Namine's existence hasn't really been an important plot point as of yet... Though if she's being brought back from "sleep" in KH3, that might become a topic that would need to be addressed.

Though it's unlikely it was intentional considering Vexen never got to publish his report or send it to Xemnas before he was axed off, yeah. Key differences being that Namine's birth was an completely unexpected albeit natural occurrence while Xion was the result of an intentional, calculated effort of an artificial nature.

 

[Anagram]

Personally, I feel like her existence was adequately explained lol.

Of course you do.

This.

I think the reason why some might think her existence isn't well-explained is because we're probably going much more in-depth than we were supposed to. For one thing, last time I checked (correct me if I'm wrong, please), there's no canonical source that states that creating a Heartless is directly linked to negative emotions. While darkness can feed on negative feelings, just about everything I've read has stated that Heartless are formed when a heart falls to darkness (or more specifically, gets consumed by it from the inside out or is ripped out of the body by another Heartless). Xemnas also mentioned that Apprenticenort's experiments with creating Heartless were attempts to "control the mind and make it renounce its sense of self." Basically, the heart literally loses its identity, and a Heartless is formed out of that.

I think your all confusing. It's just that Namine is one of the few things to discuss so people do still. One of the few myteries that's fun to delve into from time to time to well kill time.

I dont get your point. No one said they are directly linked to negative emotions. It's just a tie given since darkness feeds on them and heartless being darkness incarnate by extension are likely too as well. That and old interviews of the day saying Unverse+Heartless are similar just makes it seem logical they could.
Naturally it's not exactly the same. Darkness itself feeds on negativity like a fuel but that's usually tied directly to an individual since it's form people emotions sprang. Heartless just mindlessly find a heart but can be drawn to more unique things like wielders for their stronger hearts and so on.....

...Ya know what that's more splitting hairs territory nevermind. The point many was making Unversed and Heartless are similar, no one said directly linked.

To be fair, unlike Roxas or Xehanort, the nature of Namine's existence hasn't really been an important plot point as of yet... Though if she's being brought back from "sleep" in KH3, that might become a topic that would need to be addressed.

Though it's unlikely it was intentional considering Vexen never got to publish his report or send it to Xemnas before he was axed off, yeah. Key differences being that Namine's birth was an completely unexpected albeit natural occurrence while Xion was the result of an intentional, calculated effort of an artificial nature

It's not. Like I said just one of the few fun things to delve into from time to time.

We dont know of Xemnas saw it tbh. He was shown creeping into Roxas room at times while he was comatose briefly. He knew enough of the replica project to manipulate Xion at the end too so he's likely on the basics level of knowing.

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

I always figured the book was Nomura's way of letting Axel find out that Namine was a Nobody, and was Kairi's Nobody to boot. Remember, at this point, Axel saw Xion AS Namine and wanted to find answers on what was going on. Though there's no harm in speculating, I myself had fun with the idea that Namine was a humanoid dreameater, but the specifics of her situation probably don't exist.

 

[Anagram]

Oh~ A dreameater is a take I've never heard before. =D

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

This is what I wrote in a conversation with Audo (who is generally fantastic, and shouldn't be sassed) a few months ago,

Well, Namine’s not technically a Nobody in the way Nobodies exist.

I was looking at a post about Namine in the novels and it talks about Namine’s dreams being the impetus of her power of memories. Of course, those are like, dreams in the figurative sense BUT-

Namine has the power to wake sleeping memories, she can pull things from the depths of the heart in the right circumstances. And Sora and the others go to sleep while under her influence. Maybe it wasn’t just the machines that did it, but Namine’s influence.

We know so little about Dream Eaters, only that they are the manifestation of Darkness in the Sleeping Realm where Heartless cannot go. Embodiments of Darkness in a place where Heartless cannot exist. What is Namine? A Nobody created in spite of there being no Heartless.

We also know that back in the day, the Chirithy Dream Eaters were advisors over Keyblade Wielders - HOW MANY TIMES have we seen Chirithy watch the player as they sleep? Isn’t Kairi’s Grandma’s fairy tale the framing device of X?
Isn’t Namine holding Chirithy in the anniversary art? Isn’t his coin purse adorned not with Lux but with Namine’s unsplintered star insignia?

Wasn’t Namine able to fish out Roxas, Xion, and Ven’s memories even though they were SLEEPING IN THE DARKNESS OF SORA’S HEART?

 

[AurisFlown]

It's a possibility as Chirithy is able to wander the worlds in the fairy tale era.

So we can't deny Namine being a Dream Eater, like the ones from the Fairy Tale Era....but the problem is that she doesn't have a Dream Eater's Symbol.

Although, we can probably Imagine that, Namine, being born from a heart of Pure Light, while Sora fell into Darkness, Falling into sleep, she was born with the abilities of a Dream Eater while retaining the appearance of a Nobody or More so, Kairi's Appearance, because she was made from the light within her Heart.

The reason for her not having the Symbol, is because, although she is technically a Dream Eater, she is not one as well. Since its technically impossible for her to become a Nightmare, as she does not have any darkness within her. However, she does have the ability to mess with people's memories.

So she is Technically a Spirit Dream Eater, Nobody Mix.
She has no memories because her body is made of light, not from the one she came from.
She is most likely in confusion when she is born, because instead of becoming a Spirit, She became a Nobody.

The reason she goes back to Kairi, is because she is returning to the light she once came from or returning to the place she was meant to be, Inside Kairi's Dream's...or at least to protect her from nightmares, just like the Spirit Dream Eaters from the Sleeping Worlds.

Well, this is just my theory on Namine's Existence.

 

[Anagram]

Well Namine was over a decade before DDD or dreameaters were a forethought so the emblem could be explained as being under her dress? (like on her back or something maybe)
Or perhaps a DE variation like the form Riku took?

 

[Muke]

I like the idea of her being a Dreameater. Maybe even Chirithy?

 

[Audo]

Of course you do.

This is what I wrote in a conversation with Audo (who is generally fantastic, and shouldn't be sassed)

 

[Michael Mario]

This is what I wrote in a conversation with Audo (who is generally fantastic, and shouldn't be sassed) a few months ago,

Well, Namine’s not technically a Nobody in the way Nobodies exist.

I was looking at a post about Namine in the novels and it talks about Namine’s dreams being the impetus of her power of memories. Of course, those are like, dreams in the figurative sense BUT-

Namine has the power to wake sleeping memories, she can pull things from the depths of the heart in the right circumstances. And Sora and the others go to sleep while under her influence. Maybe it wasn’t just the machines that did it, but Namine’s influence.

We know so little about Dream Eaters, only that they are the manifestation of Darkness in the Sleeping Realm where Heartless cannot go. Embodiments of Darkness in a place where Heartless cannot exist. What is Namine? A Nobody created in spite of there being no Heartless.

We also know that back in the day, the Chirithy Dream Eaters were advisors over Keyblade Wielders - HOW MANY TIMES have we seen Chirithy watch the player as they sleep? Isn’t Kairi’s Grandma’s fairy tale the framing device of X?
Isn’t Namine holding Chirithy in the anniversary art? Isn’t his coin purse adorned not with Lux but with Namine’s unsplintered star insignia?

Wasn’t Namine able to fish out Roxas, Xion, and Ven’s memories even though they were SLEEPING IN THE DARKNESS OF SORA’S HEART?

Ah, I remember this theory now. Can't remember what I thought of it before, but now... It kind of takes nearly everything we've been talking about in this thread up to now and gives it a more defined terminology. Good stuff for a guy who considers the case closed .

It's a possibility as Chirithy is able to wander the worlds in the fairy tale era.

So we can't deny Namine being a Dream Eater, like the ones from the Fairy Tale Era....but the problem is that she doesn't have a Dream Eater's Symbol.

Although, we can probably Imagine that, Namine, being born from a heart of Pure Light, while Sora fell into Darkness, Falling into sleep, she was born with the abilities of a Dream Eater while retaining the appearance of a Nobody or More so, Kairi's Appearance, because she was made from the light within her Heart.

The reason for her not having the Symbol, is because, although she is technically a Dream Eater, she is not one as well. Since its technically impossible for her to become a Nightmare, as she does not have any darkness within her. However, she does have the ability to mess with people's memories.

So she is Technically a Spirit Dream Eater, Nobody Mix.
She has no memories because her body is made of light, not from the one she came from.
She is most likely in confusion when she is born, because instead of becoming a Spirit, She became a Nobody.

The reason she goes back to Kairi, is because she is returning to the light she once came from or returning to the place she was meant to be, Inside Kairi's Dream's...or at least to protect her from nightmares, just like the Spirit Dream Eaters from the Sleeping Worlds.

Well, this is just my theory on Namine's Existence.

Gonna need to poke one hole into that theory: while she does primarily originate from Kairi, she does possess the dark powers involved in creating Corridors of Darkness and illusions. That would seem to imply that Namine isn't made entirely of light... Though that actually works out since both Spirit and Nightmare Dream Eaters are made of darkness; hence why Riku was able to become one for Sora.

 

[Anagram]

Gonna need to poke one hole into that theory: while she does primarily originate from Kairi, she does possess the dark powers involved in creating Corridors of Darkness and illusions. That would seem to imply that Namine isn't made entirely of light... Though that actually works out since both Spirit and Nightmare Dream Eaters are made of darkness; hence why Riku was able to become one for Sora.

Which would give her a spirit category or close to one. Dream Eaters are the form darkness takes in the Realm of Sleep but the spirits are more benevolent or nonviolent. That brings up another issue though, Kairi has no darkness. Namine obviously displays having it with Corridors but Kairi lacks it. So if Naimine is the dream eater wouldn't some of Sora's darkness have been needed?

That is unless she just formed darkness on her own as she formed a heart.

 

[Michael Mario]

Which would give her a spirit category or close to one. Dream Eaters are the form darkness takes in the Realm of Sleep but the spirits are more benevolent or nonviolent. That brings up another issue though, Kairi has no darkness. Namine obviously displays having it with Corridors but Kairi lacks it. So if Naimine is the dream eater wouldn't some of Sora's darkness have been needed?

That is unless she just formed darkness on her own as she formed a heart.

Here is where things get interesting. Sleep is generally associated with darkness. This kept in mind, while Kairi's heart holds no darkness, the darkness within Sora's heart was likely where she was snoozing for most of KH1. It is from that darkness that a Dream Eater could have manifested to protect Kairi's heart in her slumber.

Once Sora released Kairi's heart and returned it to its own body, Kairi 'woke up'. That caused that Dream Eater to be ejected into the waking world in a shape and process similar to that involved in the formation of a Nobody. Whether Namine taking on an appearance similar to Kairi is related to Kairi being a Princess of Heart, or to mimic the other entity that came into existence that day (Roxas)... take your pick.

 

[BlackOsprey]

Here is where things get interesting. Sleep is generally associated with darkness. This kept in mind, while Kairi's heart holds no darkness, the darkness within Sora's heart was likely where she was snoozing for most of KH1. It is from that darkness that a Dream Eater could have manifested to protect Kairi's heart in her slumber.

Once Sora released Kairi's heart and returned it to its own body, Kairi 'woke up'. That caused that Dream Eater to be ejected into the waking world in a shape and process similar to that involved in the formation of a Nobody. Whether Namine taking on an appearance similar to Kairi is related to Kairi being a Princess of Heart, or to mimic the other entity that came into existence that day (Roxas)... take your pick.

That... actually make a lot of sense. o_o

So lemme be sure that I got this straight: Naminé has power over "sleeping memories" and can dredge up entities sleeping in a heart's darkness because she has the qualities of a Dream Eater Spirit. She has those qualities because her creation involved a bunch of different elements all happening at the same time: a heart sleeping in darkness is released from a crumbling body, bursting through the darkness that it was sleeping in, which is now consuming and destroying another being nearby. Being a DE of sorts would also explain her use of Dark Corridors, since all DE's, Spirit or Nightmare, are technically beings of darkness.

Of course, I wouldn't say that she's a DE or a Nobody, not in the usual sense. Guess you could say that she's a completely unique being.

 

[Lanydx reborn]

Holy Jupiter, this is rather insane. Namine you are just a puzzle that turns into a bigger puzzle.

 

[Michael Mario]

That... actually make a lot of sense. o_o

So lemme be sure that I got this straight: Naminé has power over "sleeping memories" and can dredge up entities sleeping in a heart's darkness because she has the qualities of a Dream Eater Spirit. She has those qualities because her creation involved a bunch of different elements all happening at the same time: a heart sleeping in darkness is released from a crumbling body, bursting through the darkness that it was sleeping in, which is now consuming and destroying another being nearby. Being a DE of sorts would also explain her use of Dark Corridors, since all DE's, Spirit or Nightmare, are technically beings of darkness.

Of course, I wouldn't say that she's a DE or a Nobody, not in the usual sense. Guess you could say that she's a completely unique being.

Dream Eater in abilities and composition (the darkness of sleep), Nobody in formation process. As is the case with Namine regardless of what you view her as, her creation is always going to be combination of factors coming together to create something very unique.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

*claps*

Now that is a very interesting and new take on Naminé's overall "status" of a being.

Basically a Dream Eater/Nobody hybrid being that somehow unites some traits and abilities of both without being either as well.

It's very plausible and if Data-beings can grow hearts and puppets become human, why shouldn't hybrid-beings be possible as well even if extensively rare?

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Here is where things get interesting. Sleep is generally associated with darkness. This kept in mind, while Kairi's heart holds no darkness, the darkness within Sora's heart was likely where she was snoozing for most of KH1. It is from that darkness that a Dream Eater could have manifested to protect Kairi's heart in her slumber.

Once Sora released Kairi's heart and returned it to its own body, Kairi 'woke up'. That caused that Dream Eater to be ejected into the waking world in a shape and process similar to that involved in the formation of a Nobody. Whether Namine taking on an appearance similar to Kairi is related to Kairi being a Princess of Heart, or to mimic the other entity that came into existence that day (Roxas)... take your pick.

I'm now picturing Nomura freaking out that you solved the Namine mystery and frantically rewriting KHIII so that Namine actually an amnesiac Ava who was originally in Aqua and was transfered to Kairi when Aqua used her spell on Kairi's necklace.