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The mystery surrounding the existences of Namine and Vanitas.



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LightAndOblivion

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OK with the lack of news and not much to do, I decided to make another discussion on a particular subject. Like about the abnormal beings or state of existences that are Namine and Vanitas and maybe there is some connection between them.

We know Roxas and the other Organization members sans Xion were classified Nobodies with Roxas and Xemnas being classified as Special Nobodies.

We know Xion is classified as a Replica along with Repliku.

But that just leaves Namine and Vanitas.

While Namine could also in a way just be considered a "Special Nobody" along with Roxas and Xemnas but even that alone isn't enough and isn't really the term to classify her with since even DIZ/ Ansem The Wise only used the term Nobody loosely with her because her birth was similar to how a Nobody came to be but she is also just not a Nobody as well since she takes nothing from Sora or Kairi.

Roxas had Sora's body and that's why he had to be returned to Sora but Namine didn't have Kairi's body or anything hence she really didn't need to merge with Kairi in a sense.

She seems to have just created her own body all on her own with the ability to grow her own heart.

Kinda similar to how Vanitas came to be since he's an even bigger complication since he isn't classified as a Heartless, Nobody or anything. Just Ventus' darkness taking form and creating his own body out of the blue. Like Ventus' shadow in a sense just like Namine was called "Kairi's shadow" as well.

Vanitas had a fragment of Ven's heart but Ventus was able to get his heart fixed up by Sora and could even have his heart grow and be nurtured by others like his friends. Vanitas shouldn't be any different really and there's also the strange ability he has having his negative emotions take form as the beings called the Unversed. Why does Vanitas only seem to have this sort of ability?

Just like with Namine. What makes her be seen as a witch is her unusual and strange ability to tamper with people's memories and rearrange them how she saw fit. Breaking chains of memories or rearranging them. Why does she seem to be the only person with this kind of power even if you just consider her as a Nobody? All of the other Nobodies have powers but nothing so strange and unique as this. Her unusual ability along with her unusual birth is why even DIZ has no idea what to really call Namine or how she even exists.


So with these similarities, it would seem like Vanitas and Namine are a "one-of-a-kind" species but could that be the case? Is there maybe the chance they could be of a similar existence? Do you think KH3 would ever dwell on what the hell these two are?

........probably not.
"Please understand" -Nomura


Anyways discuss away~
 

KeyToDestiny

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It's an interesting thought. Namine's existence is unique in the sense she really shouldn't exist at all since she virtually came to being out of nothing and has none of the components of her "parents"

Vanitas is an even bigger enigma than her because he formed a body out of nothing and has the ability to wield his own Keyblade that isn't Ventus or Xehanort's. Unless the latter performed the rite of succession with him which he probably did.

Vanitas is also able to co exist with Ventus without any real need to merge back with him especially after Ventus has his heart repaired and strengthened and Namine can Co exist with Kairi with no real reason to merge with her since she doesn't have any of her components at all.

Namine isn't your typical Nobody or could be barely called one and Vanitas isn't a Heartless since Ventus didn't give in to darkness and didn't have his heart taken by it. The darkness was extracted from him. He also isn't a Nobody because he doesn't have Ven's body.

In conclusion, I think Namine and Vanitas could be classified as "completely enigmatic people". Or as DIZ and Xehanort would have classified them as: The Witch and the Abomination.

Both have very unique and out of this world powers that can be seen as scary, frightening or dangerous.

Both are just enigmas in every sense of the word
 

Zak1403

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I just see them as the manifestation of light and darkness. Namine being the manifest light of Sora and Kairi given form (probably through magical light powers). And Vanitas being the manifest darkness of Ventus. They could be seen as similar to the Pricesses as they are Prue form of their respective sides, so it stands to reason they would be able to manipulative powers from each side.

As we are told in DDD if you give up your body would may be able to travel through time. So Namine and Vanitas created without bodies seem similar to this, without a body you aren't bound, you're "unchained" ;) to the rules of the universe.

Maybe Sora could have had some special ability when he was without a body post KH1?
 

LightAndOblivion

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I just see them as the manifestation of light and darkness. Namine being the manifest light of Sora and Kairi given form (probably through magical light powers). And Vanitas being the manifest darkness of Ventus. They could be seen as similar to the Pricesses as they are Prue form of their respective sides, so it stands to reason they would be able to manipulative powers from each side.

As we are told in DDD if you give up your body would may be able to travel through time. So Namine and Vanitas created without bodies seem similar to this, without a body you aren't bound, you're "unchained" ;) to the rules of the universe.

Maybe Sora could have had some special ability when he was without a body post KH1?

Namine being the manifestation of Sora and Kairi's light is a theory that I've heard in the past. An interesting one but doesn't really make much sense seeing how Sora and Kairi both held on to their light so how Namine came to be is a mystery. But I could see why people would see her as the manifestation of light. Her hair, clothing and personality radiate light.

Just like Vanitas' radiate darkness through hair, clothing and personality. Maybe because of these unique births they're blessed with abnormal powers.

And cool take on the unchained aspect. Maybe it could help on giving us some insight on what we could call them since they seem to be a "one of a kind" of their species lol


It's an interesting thought. Namine's existence is unique in the sense she really shouldn't exist at all since she virtually came to being out of nothing and has none of the components of her "parents"

Vanitas is an even bigger enigma than her because he formed a body out of nothing and has the ability to wield his own Keyblade that isn't Ventus or Xehanort's. Unless the latter performed the rite of succession with him which he probably did.

Vanitas is also able to co exist with Ventus without any real need to merge back with him especially after Ventus has his heart repaired and strengthened and Namine can Co exist with Kairi with no real reason to merge with her since she doesn't have any of her components at all.

Namine isn't your typical Nobody or could be barely called one and Vanitas isn't a Heartless since Ventus didn't give in to darkness and didn't have his heart taken by it. The darkness was extracted from him. He also isn't a Nobody because he doesn't have Ven's body.

In conclusion, I think Namine and Vanitas could be classified as "completely enigmatic people". Or as DIZ and Xehanort would have classified them as: The Witch and the Abomination.

Both have very unique and out of this world powers that can be seen as scary, frightening or dangerous.

Both are just enigmas in every sense of the word

Yeah I really would like to know if they'll ever touch up on the classification on their births and what not because with all we learned after KH2, it's kinda hard to just leave Namine as just a "Nobody" when she seems to be the complete opposite of it in every way.
 

Michael Mario

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I just see them as the manifestation of light and darkness. Namine being the manifest light of Sora and Kairi given form (probably through magical light powers). And Vanitas being the manifest darkness of Ventus. They could be seen as similar to the Pricesses as they are Prue form of their respective sides, so it stands to reason they would be able to manipulative powers from each side.

As we are told in DDD if you give up your body would may be able to travel through time. So Namine and Vanitas created without bodies seem similar to this, without a body you aren't bound, you're "unchained" ;) to the rules of the universe.

Maybe Sora could have had some special ability when he was without a body post KH1?

Pretty sure it's more or less outright stated that Vanitas is indeed Ventus's darkness personified, but Namine being the same for Sora and Kairi's light is sketchy considering both Chain of Memories and Kingdom Hearts II show her utilizing the power of darkness (illusions in the former, Dark Corridors in the later). CoM also had Namine refer to herself as "Kairi's shadow"... Considering she was only born when Kairi's heart (pure light) was released from Sora's body as his heart became a Heartless (pure darkness), that might be the best way to sum her existence up.
 

VoidGear.

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Isn't it hard enough for Vanitas to be a Sora/DarkRiku/Repliku copy already? :(

No, seriously, I'd love the series to have more individual characters that are not
a) the physical twins of someone
b) part of a forced trio
c) keyblade wielders

etc.
That's one of the reasons I think they should put more effort into Naminé in KH3 or the next saga. She really has potential and is "different" from all the other characters who mostly seem to be copies of each other and I like that.
What I'm trying to say is: I don't need every character to be connected to another character to make them "similar" or even "the same" or "counterparts".

But sure, I wouldn't mind SE properly explaining how their existence is really possible or the "what if"s.
 

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Ohhhhh discussion~

I think it's best to begin by pointing out the basics of life in KH:

Secret Ansem Report 4 (KH2) said:
Three elements combine to create a life: a heart, a soul, and a body.
But what of the soul and body left behind when the heart is lost?
When the soul leaves the body, its vessel, life gives way to death, but what about when the heart leaves?

Heart (mind/consciousness/who you are), soul (lifeforce), and body (physical self).

What makes these two really unique is they basically lack these aspects. Namine lacks Kairi's body or soul and she only came into being as Kairi's heart left Sora's body and went into her own. Of course this happened while Sora's own body+soul was turning into Roxas which allowed Namine to be born too.

Vanitas on the other hand, unlike Namine, isn't totally from nothing since he was born from a part of Ven's heart. It's dark part. We at least know what his base is. He has a part of a heart at his core and it grows from there into a heart of it's own.
Personally I tend to view Vanitas as more of an unversed. In Ven's story Vanitas explains to him that the unversed are Vanitas negative feelings made real and that they return to Vanitas upon destruction forming an infinite loop. But most importantly Vantias points out that they are caused by his and Ven's initial split at all.

They're that negativity as he calls it of their separation. In a sense this would make Vanitas a type of Unversed to Ven. He is Vens' negative and dark aspects that is unversed in life as a being and like the unversed that flow back into him Vanitas expresses desire to return to Ventus whether you feel for alternative reasons or due to Xehanorts plans.
Vanitas and the Unversed as a whole are basically Vens darkness giving negative feelings form and running rampant. Similar to heartless but not quite since they're specifically tied to one person (ven).

That's how I choose to view Vanitas anyway. His body, unlike Namine, doesn't really need much delving since, like heartless or Unversed, it's just darkness and specifically negativity as well taking form.

As for Namine I just view her as a "true nobody". While most nobodies are a remnant of a person Namine is truly nothing in the purest sense.
 

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This is still sort of in theory territory, but I think most normal bodies in the KH universe are made up of light. I guess it's to keep things PG and plot convenience, but when something happens to a body, it usually deteriorates into magical glowy...stuff. Like when Sora and MX lost their hearts their bodies sprinkled off as some light substance.

Heartless bodies, specifically the artificial ones, seem to be projections of the heart. Imo, since the heart is the true essence of a person, I think under the right circumstances the heart will try to create a "shell" to protect itself. In Vanitas' case, I think he went through a similar process. He was a broken piece of Ven's heart that was left bare, so projected a body to protect itself. A being made of pure darkness, his body was also made of darkness. This is again in theory territory, so you can take it with a grain of salt, but I think it also had to do with the location. The KBGY is a strange place that's seen much tragedy in the past and is left with scars even after what must have been thousands of years. Perhaps that's one of the reasons MX likes the place and Vanitas' birth was possible. The environment itself permeates a certain kind of darkness.

Naminé is more difficult to try and explain. As someone else pointed out, she's shown abilities related to the darkness, so she doesn't seem to be a product of pure light. She seems to be like everyone else and has both light and darkness as far as I can tell. It's not common, but I've seen the idea tossed around that she's the manifestation of "will" or something along those lines. Kairi's will to be whole, protect Sora, maybe a cross between the two or more. Which makes enough sense imo. There are things like Lingering Sentiment, an armour possessed by emotions with limited knowledge and Unversed, creatures born of negative emotions. Perhaps Naminé is somewhere in the "Emotion Creature" family. A product of Kairi's, and maybe even Sora's, strong emotions that where swirling at the moment she was born.
 

LightAndOblivion

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Ohhhhh discussion~

I think it's best to begin by pointing out the basics of life in KH:



Heart (mind/consciousness/who you are), soul (lifeforce), and body (physical self).

What makes these two really unique is they basically lack these aspects. Namine lacks Kairi's body or soul and she only came into being as Kairi's heart left Sora's body and went into her own. Of course this happened while Sora's own body+soul was turning into Roxas which allowed Namine to be born too.

Vanitas on the other hand, unlike Namine, isn't totally from nothing since he was born from a part of Ven's heart. It's dark part. We at least know what his base is. He has a part of a heart at his core and it grows from there into a heart of it's own.
Personally I tend to view Vanitas as more of an unversed. In Ven's story Vanitas explains to him that the unversed are Vanitas negative feelings made real and that they return to Vanitas upon destruction forming an infinite loop. But most importantly Vantias points out that they are caused by his and Ven's initial split at all.

They're that negativity as he calls it of their separation. In a sense this would make Vanitas a type of Unversed to Ven. He is Vens' negative and dark aspects that is unversed in life as a being and like the unversed that flow back into him Vanitas expresses desire to return to Ventus whether you feel for alternative reasons or due to Xehanorts plans.
Vanitas and the Unversed as a whole are basically Vens darkness giving negative feelings form and running rampant. Similar to heartless but not quite since they're specifically tied to one person (ven).

That's how I choose to view Vanitas anyway. His body, unlike Namine, doesn't really need much delving since, like heartless or Unversed, it's just darkness and specifically negativity as well taking form.

As for Namine I just view her as a "true nobody". While most nobodies are a remnant of a person Namine is truly nothing in the purest sense.

Huh that's an interesting way to look at Vanitas. Him being a special kind of Unversed though to me his way of being seems similar to how a Heartless came to be like a piece of the heart or a whole heart being surrounded by darkness and being given some sort of form. For Vanitas, he got a humanoid one similar to Ansem. He only got a human looking face after Ven connected with Sora which he reacted to.

And yeah I agree about Namine. She could be seen as the "true Nobody" in a sense

This is still sort of in theory territory, but I think most normal bodies in the KH universe are made up of light. I guess it's to keep things PG and plot convenience, but when something happens to a body, it usually deteriorates into magical glowy...stuff. Like when Sora and MX lost their hearts their bodies sprinkled off as some light substance.

Heartless bodies, specifically the artificial ones, seem to be projections of the heart. Imo, since the heart is the true essence of a person, I think under the right circumstances the heart will try to create a "shell" to protect itself. In Vanitas' case, I think he went through a similar process. He was a broken piece of Ven's heart that was left bare, so projected a body to protect itself. A being made of pure darkness, his body was also made of darkness. This is again in theory territory, so you can take it with a grain of salt, but I think it also had to do with the location. The KBGY is a strange place that's seen much tragedy in the past and is left with scars even after what must have been thousands of years. Perhaps that's one of the reasons MX likes the place and Vanitas' birth was possible. The environment itself permeates a certain kind of darkness.

Naminé is more difficult to try and explain. As someone else pointed out, she's shown abilities related to the darkness, so she doesn't seem to be a product of pure light. She seems to be like everyone else and has both light and darkness as far as I can tell. It's not common, but I've seen the idea tossed around that she's the manifestation of "will" or something along those lines. Kairi's will to be whole, protect Sora, maybe a cross between the two or more. Which makes enough sense imo. There are things like Lingering Sentiment, an armour possessed by emotions with limited knowledge and Unversed, creatures born of negative emotions. Perhaps Naminé is somewhere in the "Emotion Creature" family. A product of Kairi's, and maybe even Sora's, strong emotions that where swirling at the moment she was born.

Yeah the Heartless one is one I thought about myself and what I presumed. Vanitas kind came to being like a Heartless and Namine kinda came to being like a Nobody.

Couldn't they just be considered "Shadows" then? Or the term I came up for them since Namine sees herself as one for Kairi and Vanitas is basically one for Ventus.
 

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Huh that's an interesting way to look at Vanitas. Him being a special kind of Unversed though to me his way of being seems similar to how a Heartless came to be like a piece of the heart or a whole heart being surrounded by darkness and being given some sort of form. For Vanitas, he got a humanoid one similar to Ansem. He only got a human looking face after Ven connected with Sora which he reacted to.
Well Ansem had the sentience of a man, much to Xehanort's own shock, but his human form was due to Riku's body which he temporarily stole.

I think the key difference is the state of the heart. Heartless are a lost sense of self (which Xemnas points out in DDD by mentioning the apprentices experiments were for this purpose) which causes the heart to fall to darkness and from there the darkness of the heart manifests as a being.

With Vanitas he's not necessarily a heart lost to darkness but the dark part of someones heart stripped away. Without his darkness Ven can't do anything but fall into slumber and since he's not technically Ventus anymore the piece that is Vanitas forms itself like Ruran said.
Much like his Unversed offspring being based off of Vens dark and negative aspects.

What's similar to Vanitas, Unversed and Heartless though is that regardless of origin they all form from darkness kinda making them "cousins" in a sense.

You could probably do like Ruran and stretch this futher too. The Lingering Will is Terra's hatred taking form in the armor. Its kinda like an Unversed but it's not even darkness made real just some part of Terra inhabiting discarded scrape.
Namine too could be similar. We have several beings that form from darkness and even a sentience that uses armor to manifest itself so what's to stop some lingering feelings or desires from forming form nothing at all? Namine, and well nobodies in general, form in the realm between Light & Dark too which may hold a factor.
 

LightAndOblivion

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Yeah but what I meant about Vanitas' birth is yeah he's the darkness extracted from Ventus but he's also created with a chunk of Ventus' heart. That heart piece floats up in the air with the darkness and the darkness helps give it form creating Vanitas who's the dark side of Ventus but also created from the heart piece that got broken off. It sounded similar to how Heartless formed with the whole darkness surrounding the heart and giving it some sort of form only difference with Vanitas is that is that the darkness came from Ventus and was forcibly extracted.

And Vanitas like Ansem didn't necessarily have an actual human form when he was born at least from what I remembered. He only got a real human look or anything human at all when Ven connected with Sora just like Ansem got one when he took Riku's body and reshaped it. That's why they came off as sort of similar to me.

Calling Vanitas' existence as "cousins" to the Universed and Heartless does make some sense since it's kinda of what it is from what we've seen.

Yeah the Lingering Will or LS could also fit the similarity to Universed since it dwells on negative emotion taking form however Vanitas could create them all at will and give them form without a medium while Terra needed his armor to be the medium for his negative feelings.

That would almost make it sound like Namine could be some sort of Unversed as well going by your theory since she was created in desperation from Sora trying to awake the sleeping and endangered Kairi. Those negative feelings could have unknowingly have been given some form elsewhere and Namine was born in the Realm of In Between. Because of the precedure Sora did using Kairi's heart and his body along with her birth being in the realm of in between like all Nobodies go through, it's understandable why one would think of her as a Nobody as well.
 

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Yeah but what I meant about Vanitas' birth is yeah he's the darkness extracted from Ventus but he's also created with a chunk of Ventus' heart. That heart piece floats up in the air with the darkness and the darkness helps give it form creating Vanitas who's the dark side of Ventus but also created from the heart piece that got broken off. It sounded similar to how Heartless formed with the whole darkness surrounding the heart and giving it some sort of form only difference with Vanitas is that is that the darkness came from Ventus and was forcibly extracted.

And Vanitas like Ansem didn't necessarily have an actual human form when he was born at least from what I remembered. He only got a real human look or anything human at all when Ven connected with Sora just like Ansem got one when he took Riku's body and reshaped it. That's why they came off as sort of similar to me.

Calling Vanitas' existence as "cousins" to the Universed and Heartless does make some sense since it's kinda of what it is from what we've seen.

Yeah the Lingering Will or LS could also fit the similarity to Universed since it dwells on negative emotion taking form however Vanitas could create them all at will and give them form without a medium while Terra needed his armor to be the medium for his negative feelings.

That would almost make it sound like Namine could be some sort of Unversed as well going by your theory since she was created in desperation from Sora trying to awake the sleeping and endangered Kairi. Those negative feelings could have unknowingly have been given some form elsewhere and Namine was born in the Realm of In Between. Because of the precedure Sora did using Kairi's heart and his body along with her birth being in the realm of in between like all Nobodies go through, it's understandable why one would think of her as a Nobody as well.
I know. I was just pointing out that Vanitas birth as a "part" of Ventus seems to have facilitated his unique deviation from the heartless. Since he was a piece rather than a truly conscious being until he actually formed.

Vanitas' form was as you saw. What changed was Ven's tie to Sora gave Vanitas his face. Aside from that Vanitas always had his humanoid self. Ansem was just a floating shadow lol. I do get what ya mean though.

I think what makes Namine a kinda midway to unversed and nobodies is she was born during that process a nobody comes into being. That is the cause of her own formation, Roxas' birth. But she's also akin to an Unversed possibly. It depends on what kinda emotion or aspect she was born from really.

When you get down to it everything revolves around heart. All enemies are born from it in some way. Nobodies: a body+soul that's lost it's heart, it's shape and persona dictated by the heart it had. Heartless: heart's darkness made real. Unversed: the negativity of Ven's heart being split, aka Vanitas' negative emotions. Dream eaters: from sleeping hearts, the realm they live in is full of hearts in slumber ranging from beings to worlds. Lingering Will: Terra hating someone SO bad his armor animated.

It's just a question of "which aspect of the Kairi's heart formed Namine?". We know she has no darkness to form a being yet Namine herself has displayed darkness powers. Maybe Sora also contributed more than we think.
 

LightAndOblivion

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I know. I was just pointing out that Vanitas birth as a "part" of Ventus seems to have facilitated his unique deviation from the heartless. Since he was a piece rather than a truly conscious being until he actually formed.

Vanitas' form was as you saw. What changed was Ven's tie to Sora gave Vanitas his face. Aside from that Vanitas always had his humanoid self. Ansem was just a floating shadow lol. I do get what ya mean though.

I think what makes Namine a kinda midway to unversed and nobodies is she was born during that process a nobody comes into being. That is the cause of her own formation, Roxas' birth. But she's also akin to an Unversed possibly. It depends on what kinda emotion or aspect she was born from really.

When you get down to it everything revolves around heart. All enemies are born from it in some way. Nobodies: a body+soul that's lost it's heart, it's shape and persona dictated by the heart it had. Heartless: heart's darkness made real. Unversed: the negativity of Ven's heart being split, aka Vanitas' negative emotions. Dream eaters: from sleeping hearts, the realm they live in is full of hearts in slumber ranging from beings to worlds. Lingering Will: Terra hating someone SO bad his armor animated.

It's just a question of "which aspect of the Kairi's heart formed Namine?". We know she has no darkness to form a being yet Namine herself has displayed darkness powers. Maybe Sora also contributed more than we think.

Yeah you do have a point on Vanitas and Ansem. Vanitas gained a physical structure of a body when he formed. Ansem was just some wandering ghost with a heart and a cloak. Though we don't know what he looked like inside the robe. Honestly know Ansem feels like a mystery. Heartless while not having real bodies have the darkness for some "pseudo form" that is physical as we the players find out for ourselves but with Ansem? They make it seem like he really was just some floating heart in a cloak with no physical form from the darkness apparently. Though to make up for this he has his intelligence and memories that the other Heartless besides Sora(initially) lacked. Though this "lack of a physical being" was most likely because he had to get the time travelling shit done.

Talking it out more I really do feel that Namine could take traits from the Unversed really. I mean yeah the process that made her along with her birthplace would make one say she has to be a Nobody especially if she started out without a heart like every Nobody does so it leads more credence to the Nobody theory but why it's not really the case because she isn't using Kairi's body and she isn't using Kairi's heart or darkness since one Kairi has no darkness as we both know

So maybe the negative or strong emotions of Sora combined with the fact that Kairi was the source of those emotions along with her heart being the one that left along with his own , maybe all that took form and that's how Namine came to be well without the hearts of course. Looking similar to Kairi and being called her shadow because when she was being created, it was out of strong emotions Sora has for Kairi which is why she looks like her.


It kinds reminds me of the Xion deal with looking like Kairi since she's a replica of Sora and his strongest memories are of Kairi so that's why Xion mostly looks like her.

Yeah everything is about hearts. This series wouldn't be called Kingdom Hearts for no good reason DX
 

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Yeah you do have a point on Vanitas and Ansem. Vanitas gained a physical structure of a body when he formed. Ansem was just some wandering ghost with a heart and a cloak. Though we don't know what he looked like inside the robe. Honestly know Ansem feels like a mystery. Heartless while not having real bodies have the darkness for some "pseudo form" that is physical as we the players find out for ourselves but with Ansem? They make it seem like he really was just some floating heart in a cloak with no physical form from the darkness apparently. Though to make up for this he has his intelligence and memories that the other Heartless besides Sora(initially) lacked. Though this "lack of a physical being" was most likely because he had to get the time travelling shit done.
Ansem is a bit of a contradiction really. He underwent the process that forms a heartless but to his surprise he came out as something inbetween the stats of heartless and specter. No Ansem was able to time travel due to that initial lack of physical being. ;3
In the end the series and Nomura in all mediums refer to Ansem as both a heart and a heartless so it's kinda hard to pin him. It's probably best to consider him both. His actual form is truly unknown under that robe. Although the robes misshaped look gives the impression of a almost formless mass. Like having no legs to walk on, small stature, etc. (like he was pulled from a ghost novel)

Talking it out more I really do feel that Namine could take traits from the Unversed really. I mean yeah the process that made her along with her birthplace would make one say she has to be a Nobody especially if she started out without a heart like every Nobody does so it leads more credence to the Nobody theory but why it's not really the case because she isn't using Kairi's body and she isn't using Kairi's heart or darkness since one Kairi has no darkness as we both know

So maybe the negative or strong emotions of Sora combined with the fact that Kairi was the source of those emotions along with her heart being the one that left along with his own , maybe all that took form and that's how Namine came to be well without the hearts of course. Looking similar to Kairi and being called her shadow because when she was being created, it was out of strong emotions Sora has for Kairi which is why she looks like her.


It kinds reminds me of the Xion deal with looking like Kairi since she's a replica of Sora and his strongest memories are of Kairi so that's why Xion mostly looks like her.

Yeah everything is about hearts. This series wouldn't be called Kingdom Hearts for no good reason DX
If you wanted to explore the notion then there may be no negative feelings at all. Unlike other examples Namine wasn't really born in a darkness or negative event. Sora forming Roxas and his shadow heartless was the catalyst for her to be born but Namine herself wasn't really darkness influenced since Kairi lacks that.

Like Ruran mentioned bodies seem to be light particles or such at their base or at least when they breakdown due to loss of heart. (since we know loss of soul leads to "traditional death")
Sora has little darkness and formed a shadow heartless because of it but perhaps a mix of Kairi's light and Sora's' darkness formed her. That intersection as Kairi and Sora's heart left the body.
If bodies can break down into light and form from darkness then maybe an entity can be born from both as well. Which would explain Namines more normal (odd to say) balance of light and dark. (since she displayed use of corridors)
 

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Ansem is a bit of a contradiction really. He underwent the process that forms a heartless but to his surprise he came out as something inbetween the stats of heartless and specter. No Ansem was able to time travel due to that initial lack of physical being. ;3
In the end the series and Nomura in all mediums refer to Ansem as both a heart and a heartless so it's kinda hard to pin him. It's probably best to consider him both. His actual form is truly unknown under that robe. Although the robes misshaped look gives the impression of a almost formless mass. Like having no legs to walk on, small stature, etc. (like he was pulled from a ghost novel)


If you wanted to explore the notion then there may be no negative feelings at all. Unlike other examples Namine wasn't really born in a darkness or negative event. Sora forming Roxas and his shadow heartless was the catalyst for her to be born but Namine herself wasn't really darkness influenced since Kairi lacks that.

Like Ruran mentioned bodies seem to be light particles or such at their base or at least when they breakdown due to loss of heart. (since we know loss of soul leads to "traditional death")
Sora has little darkness and formed a shadow heartless because of it but perhaps a mix of Kairi's light and Sora's' darkness formed her. That intersection as Kairi and Sora's heart left the body.
If bodies can break down into light and form from darkness then maybe an entity can be born from both as well. Which would explain Namines more normal (odd to say) balance of light and dark. (since she displayed use of corridors)

True with how it seems like he has a hunch back, kinda reminds me of ol Grandpa Nort lol.

But the negative event or emotional event would have been Sora who was losing his heart and going to become a Heartless was doing it all for Kairi. Maybe those emotions about Kairi was strong enough and mixed with whatever darkness from Sora and some of the light from Kairi's heart. Those 3 elements with the two you proposed and the "emotions" part I brought up then came together looking like Namine who shares more appearance with Kairi than Sora because she was made up some of Kairi's light and Sora's strong emotions for that moment about Kairi would be in the mix.

Why she has blonde hair would no longer have to pertain to Ventus' heart being asleep inside Sora the whole time but because the bits of Kairi's light in her being come off as yellow as light particles from the body or in general come off as yellow

And as you already theorized, why she could use the Corridors is because of the mix of darkness from Sora that gave her some of that element.

Heh Namine is starting to sound like not only like an Unversed if going by my emotions notion but even a Lingering Will as well along with the Nobody thing.

She's like everything lol
 

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True with how it seems like he has a hunch back, kinda reminds me of ol Grandpa Nort lol.

But the negative event or emotional event would have been Sora who was losing his heart and going to become a Heartless was doing it all for Kairi. Maybe those emotions about Kairi was strong enough and mixed with whatever darkness from Sora and some of the light from Kairi's heart. Those 3 elements with the two you proposed and the "emotions" part I brought up then came together looking like Namine who shares more appearance with Kairi than Sora because she was made up some of Kairi's light and Sora's strong emotions for that moment about Kairi would be in the mix.

Why she has blonde hair would no longer have to pertain to Ventus' heart being asleep inside Sora the whole time but because the bits of Kairi's light in her being come off as yellow as light particles from the body or in general come off as yellow

And as you already theorized, why she could use the Corridors is because of the mix of darkness from Sora that gave her some of that element.

Heh Namine is starting to sound like not only like an Unversed if going by my emotions notion but even a Lingering Will as well along with the Nobody thing.

She's like everything lol
That's uncaring semantics imo since Sora becoming a heartless is negative yes but he's also doing an act with positive emotions and saving Kairi and it was from Kairi's heart Namine sprang. =3
Ventus affecting Namines hair is an old theory that could be possible. The poor girl came out of a rather convoluted situation after all lol.

I'd say her being more like Kairi is due to Kairi's heart being central to the process. If it weren't there Namine wouldn't hadn't have happened.

Irony. She's everything yet she's nothing x'D
 

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That's uncaring semantics imo since Sora becoming a heartless is negative yes but he's also doing an act with positive emotions and saving Kairi and it was from Kairi's heart Namine sprang. =3
Ventus affecting Namines hair is an old theory that could be possible. The poor girl came out of a rather convoluted situation after all lol.

I'd say her being more like Kairi is due to Kairi's heart being central to the process. If it weren't there Namine wouldn't hadn't have happened.

Irony. She's everything yet she's nothing x'D

It's more like the negative emotions is Sora going "omg I'm gonna be a Heartless forever". That's what I meant lol. He isn't the kind of guy to think saving Kairi is negative. Just his personal fate would be negative while Kairi being saved would be the positive emotions.

So positive and negative emotions combined with pieces of Sora's darkness and some of the light from Kairi's heart would then in this theory create Namine. Basically the same make up we were talking about aha

But remember Sora's heart was also leaving just like Kairi's. If her heart was more central, then Namine would have taken it or some pieces of it but the heart went back to Kairi. With how Namine came to be, Kairi's heart may not have even really been needed if we ignored the theory we were going by since Namine didn't take anything from it.

Going by this theory, I wonder if a similar thing could have happened with Vanitas. Difference is he's Ven's purest darkness but he also was created from a piece of Ven's heart. What if some of Ven's light was mixed in it? I mean even the foulest of darkness could have a glimmer of light like Mickey said in COM.

Maybe Vanitas could be used for an example like this just like Riku was?
 

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Is Namine the original heart of Kairi or something like that?

In hollow bastion Sora gave kairi back her heart before becoming a heartless, but do we know if that was her original heart, a fragment of her heart or somehow Sora's memories (A la xion). When Kairi ghosted into Sora in destiny island she seemed to have hid within him, though she didn't seem to be fully aware. It would make sense in connection to Vanitas, where he is a specific fragment of Ventus as well as why Namine merged with kairi. If this is true it would explain how Riku obtained Kairi's keyblade; Namine might have summoned it.
 

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Is Namine the original heart of Kairi or something like that?

In hollow bastion Sora gave kairi back her heart before becoming a heartless, but do we know if that was her original heart, a fragment of her heart or somehow Sora's memories (A la xion). When Kairi ghosted into Sora in destiny island she seemed to have hid within him, though she didn't seem to be fully aware. It would make sense in connection to Vanitas, where he is a specific fragment of Ventus as well as why Namine merged with kairi. If this is true it would explain how Riku obtained Kairi's keyblade; Namine might have summoned it.

Namine is a "Nobody in the truest sense". She was born when Kairi's heart left Sora and was made from "nothing".

Basically, no one has any clue what Namine "is". She just exists.
 

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^ Which makes her one of the few things left fun to discuss 8D

But remember Sora's heart was also leaving just like Kairi's. If her heart was more central, then Namine would have taken it or some pieces of it but the heart went back to Kairi. With how Namine came to be, Kairi's heart may not have even really been needed if we ignored the theory we were going by since Namine didn't take anything from it.

Going by this theory, I wonder if a similar thing could have happened with Vanitas. Difference is he's Ven's purest darkness but he also was created from a piece of Ven's heart. What if some of Ven's light was mixed in it? I mean even the foulest of darkness could have a glimmer of light like Mickey said in COM.

Maybe Vanitas could be used for an example like this just like Riku was?
We know from in-game that Kairis heart leaving Soras body was the cause of Namines being. You wouldn't have had Namine without Kairi. Soras role was him breaking down as this was happening which let Namine form.
Things we know yes but that's what makes Kairi central. The heart leaving Soras body while he was changing was important but its from Kairis heart this unique process affected and it's too Kairis heart Namine returned and to Kairi Namine herself considers a "shadow". (as she words it in both CoM)

Aka Kairi is central to this. Just because Namine was born from nothing doesn't mean Kairi wasn't central to the birth. How she was born about all we know of Namine and we know Kairi was key.

No it was said in game Vanitas was pure dark so unless a later game says otherwise that's what he is for now. Plus if you wanted to talk balance Ven is his light. They're not bound in the same heart anymore but they're still connected strongly to the point Soras connection to Ven also affects Vanitas.
 
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