Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
also, for that last part - you're a dick.
Why don't you like good things?
also, for that last part - you're a dick.
~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "Long Live The Bat"
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Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
I like good things; Grant Morrison just happens to not really provide them all the time. =/ I liked Arkham Asylum, Batman & Son and Batman RIP. I don't know if I've read anything else he wrote that I enjoyed reading.
The thing is, and this is only guessing on what you see as Batman, you and I seem to have two VERY different views on what is Batman. I see Batman not as a superhero, but as a "Detective", as Ra's Al Ghul refers to him. Also, Batman is Bruce Wayne. No one else (except for Terry in the DCAU) Why? Because quite frankly, Bruce Wayne is the mask; Batman is the person wearing that mask (that's why I'm not very fond of the upcoming Batman, Inc, though I'm willing to give it a try).
I like good things; Grant Morrison just happens to not really provide them all the time. =/ I liked Arkham Asylum, Batman & Son and Batman RIP. I don't know if I've read anything else he wrote that I enjoyed reading.
The thing is, and this is only guessing on what you see as Batman, you and I seem to have two VERY different views on what is Batman. I see Batman not as a superhero, but as a "Detective", as Ra's Al Ghul refers to him. Also, Batman is Bruce Wayne. No one else (except for Terry in the DCAU) Why? Because quite frankly, Bruce Wayne is the mask; Batman is the person wearing that mask (that's why I'm not very fond of the upcoming Batman, Inc, though I'm willing to give it a try).
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
What you enjoy isn't a measure of quality.
Three words: All. Star. Superman. Grant Morrison is a fantastic writer and his Batman run has been highly acclaimed.
What you enjoy isn't a measure of quality.
But he IS a superhero. You can try to ground him. You can give his stories a noir or pulp feel to them. But at the end of the day, the city of Gotham and the greater DCU at large is highly fantastical and Batman repeatedly deals with things beyond the "detective" level. He is a superhero.
So what makes Terry the exception?
Maybe at one point in other stories you read. But now Bruce Wayne is front and centre and Batman is a symbol. But then Batman was always a symbol and to be inherited. Dick taking over the mantle was the whole reason as to why he was created in 1940. And without a doubt, Dick is the best Batman.
I'm not going to read it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be awesome.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
A different time, a different Batman really. Unlike all the others, Terry has only ever been Batman since he was created. To me, Dick will always be Nightwing, and Azrael will be Azrael (I can't remember his secret identity. Jean Paul, or something like that, right?) Same issue would occur for Tim or Damien, IMO. Terry, despite his different approach to Batman, has always been Batman.
No, I don't think Bob Kane and the other guys working on Batman at the time created Dick Grayson just so he'd be the next Batman. I think it was to create a side-kick, from what I recall. -_- And I'm sorry, but Bruce Wayne will always be the best Batman to me. =/
Whatever. I hope its good.
A different time, a different Batman really. Unlike all the others, Terry has only ever been Batman since he was created. To me, Dick will always be Nightwing, and Azrael will be Azrael (I can't remember his secret identity. Jean Paul, or something like that, right?) Same issue would occur for Tim or Damien, IMO. Terry, despite his different approach to Batman, has always been Batman.
No, I don't think Bob Kane and the other guys working on Batman at the time created Dick Grayson just so he'd be the next Batman. I think it was to create a side-kick, from what I recall. -_- And I'm sorry, but Bruce Wayne will always be the best Batman to me. =/
Whatever. I hope its good.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
Exactly. Nobody beats the original Dark Knight. Terry was good, but Bruce was always a bit better.
Exactly. Nobody beats the original Dark Knight. Terry was good, but Bruce was always a bit better.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
The Bat-family is a legacy. They're not identity's, they're mantles. Anyone can be Batman, anyone can be Robin, Red Robin or Nightwing and they have been.
aka the characters are whatever they were when you started reading. Which really doesn't make sense considering you mention both Tim and Damien who I assume you both associate at being Robin when Damien taking on that role directly forced Tim out of it. To me Barbara Gordon is Oracle and always has been. But to others she's Batgirl and always will be. That doesn't illegitimize Cassandra Cain's or Stephanie Brown's time as Batgirl. In fact it's exactly what makes the DC Universe wonderful.
The Bat-family is a legacy. They're not identity's, they're mantles. Anyone can be Batman, anyone can be Robin, Red Robin or Nightwing and they have been.
The whole story behind Robin was that Bruce realised he'd need someone to take over for him one day.
Have you read Batman and Robin? He's easily more likeable than Bruce was.
It will be. But you'll probably hate it.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
There's a difference; for all the changes that have occurred with new Robins, Batgirls and etc, Batman has pretty much always been Bruce Wayne. The others were temporary replacements. By the time Terry became Batman, Bruce was an elderly old man with a limp leg. Bruce managed to wear that one Batsuit for a fight once or twice to fight a bad guy, but it was pretty obvious Bruce couldn't be Batman any longer.
I don't remember ever reading that this was the reason that Robin was created. =/ In fact, read these two statements made by the guys who worked with Bob Kane on the topic of Robin being created.
"Robin was an outgrowth of a conversation I had with Bob. As I said, Batman was a combination of [Douglas] Fairbanks and Sherlock Holmes. Holmes had his Watson. The thing that bothered me was that Batman didn't have anyone to talk to, and it got a little tiresome always having him thinking. I found that as I went along Batman needed a Watson to talk to. That's how Robin came to be. Bob called me over and said he was going to put a boy in the strip to identify with Batman. I thought it was a great idea." - Bill Finger
"The impetus came from Bill's wanting to extend the parameters of the story potential and of the drama. He saw that adding a sidekick would enhance the drama. Also, it enlarged the readership identification. The younger kids could then identify with Robin, which they couldn't with Batman, and the older ones with Batman. It extended the appeal on a lot of levels." - Jerry Robinson
Gee, I don't see ANYTHING about him being made for him to be Bruce's successor. =/
You just lost all your credibility (for me) with that statement.
=/ If it's good, I'll like it. If it's bad, I'll hate it. Simple as that.
That said, who is everyone's favorite Batman artist?
Mine's probably either Brian Bolland (The Killing Joke) or Alex Ross. <3 As far as writers go, mine would be Paul Dini, Jeph Loeb, Alan Moore or Frank Miller. ^_^
There's a difference; for all the changes that have occurred with new Robins, Batgirls and etc, Batman has pretty much always been Bruce Wayne. The others were temporary replacements. By the time Terry became Batman, Bruce was an elderly old man with a limp leg. Bruce managed to wear that one Batsuit for a fight once or twice to fight a bad guy, but it was pretty obvious Bruce couldn't be Batman any longer.
I don't remember ever reading that this was the reason that Robin was created. =/ In fact, read these two statements made by the guys who worked with Bob Kane on the topic of Robin being created.
"Robin was an outgrowth of a conversation I had with Bob. As I said, Batman was a combination of [Douglas] Fairbanks and Sherlock Holmes. Holmes had his Watson. The thing that bothered me was that Batman didn't have anyone to talk to, and it got a little tiresome always having him thinking. I found that as I went along Batman needed a Watson to talk to. That's how Robin came to be. Bob called me over and said he was going to put a boy in the strip to identify with Batman. I thought it was a great idea." - Bill Finger
"The impetus came from Bill's wanting to extend the parameters of the story potential and of the drama. He saw that adding a sidekick would enhance the drama. Also, it enlarged the readership identification. The younger kids could then identify with Robin, which they couldn't with Batman, and the older ones with Batman. It extended the appeal on a lot of levels." - Jerry Robinson
Gee, I don't see ANYTHING about him being made for him to be Bruce's successor. =/
You just lost all your credibility (for me) with that statement.
=/ If it's good, I'll like it. If it's bad, I'll hate it. Simple as that.
That said, who is everyone's favorite Batman artist?
Mine's probably either Brian Bolland (The Killing Joke) or Alex Ross. <3 As far as writers go, mine would be Paul Dini, Jeph Loeb, Alan Moore or Frank Miller. ^_^
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
Shit, you do realise that Batman Beyond is out of continuity right?
Have you heard of the Titans of Tomorrow storyline from Geoff Johns' Teen Titans run? In an alternate timeline Bruce is killed in Infinite Crisis and Tim becomes Batman. In Morrison's alternate future, Damien becomes Batman. In Battle for the Cowl both Tim and Jason declared themselves as Batman. In Morrison's JLA Dick filled in for Bruce as Batman temporarily. Dick, Jason, Tim and Damien were all trained for one reason - Robin's become Batman.
You're still not making sense. So it's okay for Terry to take over when Bruce is old but not okay for Dick to take over when Bruce is dead?
Shit, you do realise that Batman Beyond is out of continuity right?
Those are editorial quotes. I said story.
Have you heard of the Titans of Tomorrow storyline from Geoff Johns' Teen Titans run? In an alternate timeline Bruce is killed in Infinite Crisis and Tim becomes Batman. In Morrison's alternate future, Damien becomes Batman. In Battle for the Cowl both Tim and Jason declared themselves as Batman. In Morrison's JLA Dick filled in for Bruce as Batman temporarily. Dick, Jason, Tim and Damien were all trained for one reason - Robin's become Batman.
You're ridiculous. There's an entire segment in Dick's wikipedia page that cites how he's a great leader because he's so connected and so well liked amongst the superhero community. The same cannot be said for Bruce. Even my comic shop owner, who hates Morrison's run on Batman, says that Dick is more enjoyable than Bruce. And he is.
More like if it's what you expect Batman to be, you'll like it. If it's not what you expect Batman to be, you'll hate it.
The Killing Joke was pretty bad.That said, who is everyone's favorite Batman artist?
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
Thing is; Bruce isn't dead. =/ Tim was right all along about that. Out of the Bat-Family nowadays, Dick IS the right person to be Bruce's successor. The thing is, I'm not enjoying how he's coming across so far. Maybe in time, I'll warm up to Dick's interpretation of Batman, but for now, I'd rather see him as Nightwing. Sadly, Dick has to be Batman, but that doesn't mean he's by any means better than Bruce is. =/
And yes, I'm aware that Batman Beyond isn't in the DCU Continuity. Part of why I prefer the DCAU. Paul Dini > Grant Morrison.
I've heard of it. In fact, I've been wanting to read it, to see if Tim pulled it off. He was always my favorite Robin, and I felt if any Robin could pull it off, he could.
Funny. Bruce's got the connections. He just isn't as popular amongst the community, which is why I vastly find him more interesting. He's the Dark Horse of DC Comics. And I'm sorry, but Dick hasn't been too enjoyable as Batman. =/ At least, not compared to Bruce.
Nope, not at all. TDKR was nothing at all what I expected Batman to be, but I loved it. In fact, one of my favorite graphic novels I have still is a Superman & Batman Elseworld graphic novel that goes through several generations of Batman, and I loved it. And heck, Dick was still my least favorite Batman in that too. =/
Short? Yes. Bad? HELL NO. It's a great short story. Could've been a lot better, if Alan Moore had gone deeper and fleshed out the plot more, but I love what it is.
I've already stated that you and I seem to have two VERY different takes on what is and what isn't Batman. I've realized another thing that's different in our mindsets.
Who is Superman? Clark Kent. Who is Green Lantern? There's been multiple GLs, but the one most identify with is Hal Jordan. Who is Spider-Man? Peter Parker (yes I know he's Marvel, but I'm making a point here). Who is Batman? Bruce Wayne. A lot of superheroes get replaced, but there are some superheroes who never are really replaced; for Batman, the other guys to wear the Cape and Cowl, it was only to act as Bruce's substitute and Bruce always came back. Spiderman's brief replacement in the 90s was just Peter Parker's clone, so there wasn't much difference.
Thing is; Bruce isn't dead. =/ Tim was right all along about that. Out of the Bat-Family nowadays, Dick IS the right person to be Bruce's successor. The thing is, I'm not enjoying how he's coming across so far. Maybe in time, I'll warm up to Dick's interpretation of Batman, but for now, I'd rather see him as Nightwing. Sadly, Dick has to be Batman, but that doesn't mean he's by any means better than Bruce is. =/
And yes, I'm aware that Batman Beyond isn't in the DCU Continuity. Part of why I prefer the DCAU. Paul Dini > Grant Morrison.
I've heard of it. In fact, I've been wanting to read it, to see if Tim pulled it off. He was always my favorite Robin, and I felt if any Robin could pull it off, he could.
Funny. Bruce's got the connections. He just isn't as popular amongst the community, which is why I vastly find him more interesting. He's the Dark Horse of DC Comics. And I'm sorry, but Dick hasn't been too enjoyable as Batman. =/ At least, not compared to Bruce.
Nope, not at all. TDKR was nothing at all what I expected Batman to be, but I loved it. In fact, one of my favorite graphic novels I have still is a Superman & Batman Elseworld graphic novel that goes through several generations of Batman, and I loved it. And heck, Dick was still my least favorite Batman in that too. =/
Short? Yes. Bad? HELL NO. It's a great short story. Could've been a lot better, if Alan Moore had gone deeper and fleshed out the plot more, but I love what it is.
I've already stated that you and I seem to have two VERY different takes on what is and what isn't Batman. I've realized another thing that's different in our mindsets.
Who is Superman? Clark Kent. Who is Green Lantern? There's been multiple GLs, but the one most identify with is Hal Jordan. Who is Spider-Man? Peter Parker (yes I know he's Marvel, but I'm making a point here). Who is Batman? Bruce Wayne. A lot of superheroes get replaced, but there are some superheroes who never are really replaced; for Batman, the other guys to wear the Cape and Cowl, it was only to act as Bruce's substitute and Bruce always came back. Spiderman's brief replacement in the 90s was just Peter Parker's clone, so there wasn't much difference.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
And from what I gather, you only read Batman in trades. I read the monthly comics. My purchases directly affect these characters and their direction in continuity. Yours don't.
You want a proper one? The Flash.
Not really the point.
And what exactly is wrong with Dick?
Tim used a gun and the Titans were the bad guys.
Dick is vastly more connected that Bruce. Dick actually likes people so they're not afraid of him. And again, tell me why Dick hasn't been enjoyable?
It seems you prefer the dark and gritty Batman tales. DKR is dark and gritty.
Moore himself admits it's one of his worst pieces of work. Joker doesn't need an origin.
Actually I don't really care what Batman is or isn't. In fact, I think trying to stick him to one particular take is retarded. Adam West is just as much Batman as Christian Bale is.
And from what I gather, you only read Batman in trades. I read the monthly comics. My purchases directly affect these characters and their direction in continuity. Yours don't.
Green Lantern isn't any one person. There's 7200 of them. Superman doesn't have a legacy like the Bat-Family does. Spider-Man isn't a mantle. All terrible examples.
You want a proper one? The Flash.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
Will Brooker had a pretty cool quote about Batman that I think fits here:
And I empathize with this sentiment a lot; what makes Bruce likable to me as Batman is that despite his rough edges, psychological issues, and general unpleasantness, when it all comes down to it, he's a fundamentally good person trying to make the world a better place due to his inner humanity. In that sense, he's no different from Clark, Hal, Barry, or any other supehero. He just has different circumstances associated with his motivations, and acts in a different, corresponding manner.
I haven't read any of Dick's tenure as Batman, so I can't really say much about that. What I do know is what would anyone would easily guess at: Dick's not as mentally scarred as Bruce, he trusts people more easily, is probably closer to the traditional definition of what a "hero" is, and is generally just an easier person to empathize with. In that sense I suppose he is the better Batman, and I think that's probably what Bruce intended for him to become anyway.
Of course, it doesn't necessarily mean he'd be as fun to read about as Bruce, but it wouldn't invalidate him either.
Outside of presenting a few interesting ideas, I didn't think the Killing Joke was that great either myself.
Will Brooker had a pretty cool quote about Batman that I think fits here:
And I empathize with this sentiment a lot; what makes Bruce likable to me as Batman is that despite his rough edges, psychological issues, and general unpleasantness, when it all comes down to it, he's a fundamentally good person trying to make the world a better place due to his inner humanity. In that sense, he's no different from Clark, Hal, Barry, or any other supehero. He just has different circumstances associated with his motivations, and acts in a different, corresponding manner.
I haven't read any of Dick's tenure as Batman, so I can't really say much about that. What I do know is what would anyone would easily guess at: Dick's not as mentally scarred as Bruce, he trusts people more easily, is probably closer to the traditional definition of what a "hero" is, and is generally just an easier person to empathize with. In that sense I suppose he is the better Batman, and I think that's probably what Bruce intended for him to become anyway.
Of course, it doesn't necessarily mean he'd be as fun to read about as Bruce, but it wouldn't invalidate him either.
Outside of presenting a few interesting ideas, I didn't think the Killing Joke was that great either myself.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
I suppose you both got good points (Chevalier Sombre actually stated why I prefer Bruce; he's just more fun to read as Batman than Dick is IMO), and Johnny you were right when you guessed than I'm a casual comic-book reader; I have neither the money nor time to read every single comic book that comes out from DC or Marvel, much less put together. That said, I DO enjoy reading novels/comic-books when I see them at book stores.
I suppose you both got good points (Chevalier Sombre actually stated why I prefer Bruce; he's just more fun to read as Batman than Dick is IMO), and Johnny you were right when you guessed than I'm a casual comic-book reader; I have neither the money nor time to read every single comic book that comes out from DC or Marvel, much less put together. That said, I DO enjoy reading novels/comic-books when I see them at book stores.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
So anyone gonna get the new Arckum game?( Bad spelling sorry.)
So anyone gonna get the new Arckum game?( Bad spelling sorry.)
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
Arkham
Return of The Joker? Live-action version seems bad idea to me
Arkham
Return of The Joker? Live-action version seems bad idea to me
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
I like to join the Batman FC. I liked the Batman series and I own the Dark Knight.
I like to join the Batman FC. I liked the Batman series and I own the Dark Knight.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
So Batman, Incorporated. came out last week and it was fun as hell.
Fun and sexy international adventures. This is Batman.
So Batman, Incorporated. came out last week and it was fun as hell.
Fun and sexy international adventures. This is Batman.
Re: ~ THE BATMAN FC!!! ~ "I'm The Goddamn Batman"
I haven't seen it yet. I might like it, but it's still a different vision of Batman than I'm used to. xD
I haven't seen it yet. I might like it, but it's still a different vision of Batman than I'm used to. xD
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