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(SPOILERS) Union X: The Plot Thickens



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Sephiroth0812

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I think the theory that someone impersonated Ava and gave Ven the rulebook gets more and more likely.

It also looks like Ven doesn't even know he is the replacement.

Also kudos to Blaine handling all this much better and with more care than the original Foretellers. They would have probably already descended into another argument.

Also gotta love Maleficent dissing on the sloppy security of the Foreteller castle.
 

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This is probably me misinterpreting things or restating things that were already known but could the "worlds" we visit in World Terminus in KH1 be data versions of them that were created by the ark that is also there? Or is that not one of the ark's functions?
 

Dast

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Correct. And if you're implying certain characters could attempt to use the ark to escape their "cage", that might not be too far off. I could see each chamber sending them off one by one, but they all accidentally end up in different time periods (perhaps due to some kind of rush?). The implication, based on the reports, is that it was prompted by the "virus"/Ava's ace in the hole, implying that perhaps Blain thought it up. It wouldn't be out of character, considering all his declarations about being the
The secret reports say that the imposter is the virus, meaning it's Ven, at least as far as Luxu knows.
 

Sephiroth0812

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The secret reports say that the imposter is the virus, meaning it's Ven, at least as far as Luxu knows.
Luxu may be misinformed or further developments will re-contextualize things as Blaine pretty blatantly declared himself the virus in previous story updates.

Who knows, considering both Ephemer and Blaine say their relationship won't change I could even see them all "working as part of the virus" in order to try and change the predetermined outcomes.

Knowing Ven to be the replacement also doesn't give much more insight on the whole Strelitzia case and him apparently being totally clueless means there's definitely some outside force at work.
 

AdrianXXII

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Luxu may be misinformed or further developments will re-contextualize things as Blaine pretty blatantly declared himself the virus in previous story updates.

Who knows, considering both Ephemer and Blaine say their relationship won't change I could even see them all "working as part of the virus" in order to try and change the predetermined outcomes.

Knowing Ven to be the replacement also doesn't give much more insight on the whole Strelitzia case and him apparently being totally clueless means there's definitely some outside force at work.
The way the report is worded it seems like Luxu is just observing from afar and isn't completely in the loop. We have yet to see the Leaders attempt to escape to another world line. He attributes the attempt to do that to Ven, but honestly that sounds more like Brain than Ven.

In theory Brain could also be seen as a type of imposter, he wasn't meant to get the Book of Prophesies, but calling him the imposter when Ven really wasn't meant to be there is a bit of a stretch. However him being a virus in the MoM's plan works with him not being the intended owner.

I'm fairly certain there is an outside force at work, especially with Darkness calling itself an "Ancent People" in @yuyayuzu 's translation. Makes it seem likely it's not one of the foretellers to me.
 

LoneFox

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Damn, I thought I had solved this... Still, a lot of the logic I used applies to this new situation as well.

1. The Master of Masters wants to restore light after it expired. He has created some data worlds and trapped the Dandelions in them. The natural connection for these two things is that he is creating a utopia dominated by light. He locks the device that runs the data worlds into a box, transports it to the far future, and then plans to turn the data worlds into real ones, restoring light. If this is the case, he would want the Dandelion leaders to be as hard as possible to corrupt by darkness. He seems to have used humility as the key characteristic, as can be seen by observing how they react to being selected as leaders. Also, humility is the opposite of pride, the missing deadly sin. Now, since Lauriam is not humble and also ended up becoming a villain, it is clear that he isn't supposed to be one of the leaders. What is wrong here? MoM knows that this simple version of the plan will not work, so he has to adapt it to deal with the problems that have arisen. Lauriam being there must be a consequence of such adaptation.

2. Ven was named as replacement by Ava. If he wasn't, he wouldn't know where to go to meet the others. Also, he would have to deal with a very disapproving Chirithy, who probably would have ratted him out a long time ago. Additionally, Ven told the others what Ava had said to him, and Ephemer & Skuld confirmed this by saying that they got exactly same speech.

3. But Ava was very reluctant to make any changes. Even when she gave the Book of Prophecies to Brain, she also gave him the list of names, so he could see the change and revert it if he thinks it is the right thing to do. So, if she did name a replacement, she would have informed the others about it. Except, if it happened under circumstances where she had no possibility to do so. The battlefield of the Keyblade War provides such circumstances. With Lauriam, I assumed she was mortally wounded when she did it. With Ven, she probably just wanted to save him from being killed in the war.

4. Lauriam's behavior as union leader seems out-of-character to me. He is bending the rules to avoid conflict between the Dandelions, such as delaying re-establishment of the five unions, and shifting Shift Pride from a real combat sport to a video game. Other than that, he isn't doing any leading at all. Yes, he is genuinely worried about Strelitzia, but it seems to be a bit too much for him to neglect his duties because of that. It is also exactly what Ava would want him to do if he was the replacement, which is why I suspected him to be in the heart hotel business.

5. Just to pre-emptively counter any nonsensical speculation about Ven's darkness that is going to follow from this: Xehanort extracted all darkness from Ven's heart when Vanitas was created. Any darkness that is there in KH3 must have gotten there after that event, and therefore cannot be conneted to what happens in KHUx.

So, what do you think? Have I missed something?

Edit: Also, it seems to be proven that the Darkness is Not A Very Dark Darkness. All it is doing is helping to get rid of Maleficent by sending her back to her own time. In fact, it probably is MoM himself stopping by...
 
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kaialone

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5. Just to pre-emptively counter any nonsensical speculation about Ven's darkness that is going to follow from this: Xehanort extracted all darkness from Ven's heart when Vanitas was created. Any darkness that is there in KH3 must have gotten there after that event, and therefore cannot be conneted to what happens in KHUx.

So, what do you think? Have I missed something?
Ventus and Vanitas rejoined with one another at the end of Birth by Sleep, so any darkness inside Ven in KH3 could've easily gotten back into Ven. Right?
 

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Looks like Ventus wielding Missing Ache was symbolic after all. Good on the new Union Leaders for not immediately dismissing Ven after this revelation. This whole Ven and Darkness connection may be a catalyst to bring back Vanitas again.

And with Lauriam confirmed to be a Keyblade Wielder, looks like Elrena is one, too.
 

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TL;DR
Ephemera and Brain believe that Ava was aware of the change in Union Leaders, but not responsible for it.
Ventus is the replacement, but he was not aware of it and believes it was Ava who appointed him.
Darkness reveals he's helping Maleficent for "an old, old friend" and that her going back to the future will fulfill the requirement of needing someone who remembers you for the people in Daybreak Town.
Lauriam is based.
 

LoneFox

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Ventus and Vanitas rejoined with one another at the end of Birth by Sleep, so any darkness inside Ven in KH3 could've easily gotten back into Ven. Right?
You may have a point here. I don't remember exactly what happened there, I guess I need to rewatch that part of BBS...
But also, while thinking about this I remembered that in KH3 the scientists examined Sora's heart while Ven's was in it. If there was any major boogyman there, wouldn't they have seen it?

Anyway, thank you for pointing it out!
 

yuyayuzu

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when I searched for something related to ven I found a statement that also feels strange to me which is ven had said master ava is similar to skuld. If ven doesnt lie and fake ava ia the onw appoints him then that fake ava is similar to skuld? And skuld arguing on everything this time feels strange. Sure, the behaviour is not suspicious at all but sonething just feels strange. I maybe overthinking things and nomura just make the easy vanitas way but..

Edit: I forget it is Brain that said that and Ventus says so master ava is like skuld afterwards,
 
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Sephiroth0812

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Ventus and Vanitas rejoined with one another at the end of Birth by Sleep, so any darkness inside Ven in KH3 could've easily gotten back into Ven. Right?
Except that Ventus rejected this reunion and that is not even getting into the fact that it was never complete to begin with.

I think the cutscene in the theater mode is even called "the return of the fractured heart" or something similar.

You may have a point here. I don't remember exactly what happened there, I guess I need to rewatch that part of BBS...
But also, while thinking about this I remembered that in KH3 the scientists examined Sora's heart while Ven's was in it. If there was any major boogyman there, wouldn't they have seen it?

Anyway, thank you for pointing it out!
Tbh it was never explicitly explained what exactly happened with Vanitas' heart after BBS. The only constants we have is that Ventus rejected them joining together and that destroying the proto-X-blade damaged his heart again.
The exact fate of Vanitas' heart was never elaborated upon.
 

DraceEmpressa

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Lauriam's keyblade is Divine Rose, and Marluxia's data battle in KH2 is in Beast's Castle. You get Divine Rose from Hollow Bastion, that teleporter room leads to Hollow Bastion. Marluxia's motif is about the rose petals, when Maleficent put up thorn bush to lock up Sleeping Beauty and roses are , of course, is about both petals and thorns. It wasn't Sora she was stalking in Corona, it was Marluxia....
 

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I just realize Darkness was walking on the railings without falling. What if they fell off the railing now? Darkness is crazy.
 

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So, once Maleficent returns to her time, she will be the reason the leaders can also travel, since she will seemingly meet them and have memories of them, however hidden and etched.

It seems Darkness was the one to tell her about the box. I always thought it was Xigbar until ReMind. So, I guess this truly means Xigbar having the other members look for the box was not a strategic move but a desperate hail marry attempt to protect it.

Also, MoM said that the ancient darkness took on the form of humans, so perhaps this is what darkness did to appear as Ava to Ven. It was also probably the one to connect the data town to the Wreck It Ralph world to give the leaders incentive to escape to another world line.

My questions now are, how much does Xehanort truly know? He released the darkness from Ven and was the one to enlist Maleficent and inform her of time travel to begin with. Is the darkness in league with MoM or his enemy?
 

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This could explain how Ventus ended up in Master Xehanort's time. Seeing (through the eye's gaze) that Xehanort needed somebody containing great light and great darkness to re-enact the Keyblade War, he could've been delivered through this machine as an ideal test subject. Correct me if I'm wrong though!

Also on a side note:

I'm really excited that this person (and everyone else) finally got their answer!
 
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Violet Pluto

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Dang, "An old friend" could be MoM. If Darkness came from where he did, it could have plans against his plans or that play on them. They could even be working together; Or it could be that both of them are using the same means to work against one another. Maybe even that MoM doesn't care about Darkness' plans because they don't matter to his plans in the end.

Hearts in KH contain memories, so maybe something messes with the Dandelion's hearts in the transfer which is why most if not all of them we've seen seem to be amnesiac. Elrena isn't a leader so it's possible that either there are a lot more Dandelion Refugees than thought or that she uses up one of the spaces for either Ephemer or Brain. Scala ad Caelum was built on the ruins of Daybreak, so that could mean that one or both stayed in the past and built Scala; and Ephemera staying would fit with his ghost helping out in the Keyblade Graveyard.

I knew this update would make me think, but not this much I haven't even stated all of my theories
 

Ballad of Caius

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This is probably me misinterpreting things or restating things that were already known but could the "worlds" we visit in World Terminus in KH1 be data versions of them that were created by the ark that is also there?
It's a possibility, seeing as how those worlds we visit weren't fallen in darkness, meaning they couldn't be chunks of those worlds mashed into End of the World. It's also possible that, since the Kingdom Hearts in EOTW is the Heart of all Worlds, it's the Heart remembering pieces and chunks of the other worlds.

Also, this gives me hope that maaaaaaaaaaybe, the Chambers of Repose and Awakening will be retouched in Project Xehanort, seeing as how Nomura remembered this machine.
 
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