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Mark of Mastery/BBS Vol. 2/DDD/Braig/ ?



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chenoehii

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We know some of what is going to happen in games that are more recent in the timeline of story, but there are still many unanswered questions.

One example, we know that Riku and Sora will take the MoME, but where exactly will it take place? Where could it really take place now?

Land of Departure was Terra and Aqua's home world so it made sense for them to take it there, LoD also had a throne room where they could fight, but LoD is gone now, and Castle Oblivion doesn't seem like the kind of place that the MoME could take place. Besides, when they go back there, it's most definitely to find Ven, nothing more(atleast that's what we think). And it's not going to turn back into LoD bc Eraqus' specially designed LoD, and Aqua, as his successor, was granted the permission to specially design it to whatever she wanted, CO. And in no way is Destiny Islands a candidate(my opinion though) 1. because Yen Sid tells Mickey to summon Riku and Sora to him, taking them away from their home, 2. they way they leave Kairi it's pretty obvious they're not coming back to DI anytime soon, and 3. N.O. thank you. DI is my favorite world, but no.

Then you have four other original KH worlds: Traverse Town, Hollow Bastion, Twilight Town, and Mysterious Tower. Personally I think both the TT's are out(although the symbolic scenes from the DDD trailer suggest Traverse Town's significance to the game) simply bc 1. where would they dual? and 2. those worlds just wouldn't make sense..

That leaves Hollow Bastion. The first time we went to HB the world was falling into darkness like everything else around it, but now it has been restored(and continues to be) to what it used to be-like Radiant Garden was. It's possible we might be able to go somewhere specific inside the castle where Riku and Sora could dual...? Kind of like the throne room in LoD?

It could be Mysterious Tower, but I'm curious again as to where they would take the exam? Maybe there's some new area that will be opened up to us?

The only other option left is for Yen Sid to conjure up some world we haven't been to yet. And I think it would be a far stretch to say it could be in a Disney world.

Aside from the MoME they are still maaany mysteries lingering around the game. Where is that game that Nomura talked about that would show us the time Mickey was away, and the time Riku spent alone? Remember a while back when he talked about upcoming games: he said there would be a game that went over Roxas' time in the Org., one that would be a prequel(or would involve the three keyblade wielders before Sora, can't remember what he said word for word), and there would be games dealing with Mickey and Riku. We got two of them-BBS and Days-but where are the other two? DDD and BBS Vol. 2???

Judging by the secret movie they gave us in BBS Final Mix, I think it's safe to say that BBS Vol. 2(saying that BBS Vol. 2 will be a game between DDD and KH3) deals with Mickey, particularly Mickey finding Aqua-Yen Sid said Terra is the only one left to be found, and I think DDD might have something to do with Riku.

Two more interesting things to note:

1. Somewhere in these two games(again, given that Vol. 2 is a game) we will find out the truth behind the data that AtW stored inside Sora. He said he hoped it could serve a purpose. What purpose that could be still remains unknown.

2. Riku was with Mickey for a little while after COM, but then they split up. In Days, the first time we see him(if I'm not mistaken, sorry if I got this wrong:frown:) was when he fights Xion. Where was he before that? Why does he say to Namine and Axel, in KH2 FM, that he owes them for what they did for him in CO? We can understand Namine, but Axel?? Why does Axel know he's the 'imposter' in Days, and seem to be so familiar with him in that one scene in KH2 FM? Why do we see Riku, in KH2, give Kairi the keyblade that was crafted from the flowers that Kairi gave Aqua in BBS?

I think, in his time in the RoD, that Riku met Aqua. It's kind of a fuzzy idea, but that's what I think may have occurred during 'that time'.

A few interesting thing's concerning Braig and Xigbar:

1. How does Braig know of Sora's connection to Ven? In KH2 Xigbar points out that Sora glares at him the same way Ven used to, but the way he worded it, it implies he knows more than he should.. Idk maybe I just read too much into it.

2. He obviously knows about Axel and Saix's plot(what their true goal was is still one of the mysteries that has yet to be elaborated on further), judging by the things he said in the Secret Reports in Days, and the fact that Axel is one of the people he's been known to spy on, as we saw in Days.

All of the apprentices actions make me suspicious and think they all knew more than they should.. (shrugs)

So that's it.. just some of my thoughts

Edit: I also think that Riku will most likely pass the Exam. It would be shocking to me if he didn't.
 

Evello

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The MoM exam isn't the same for every master. Eraqus may have had Terra and Aqua fight, but Yen Sid doesn't necessarily have to. Honestly, if Yen Sid felt like it, he could send Sora and Riku on a quest and just say "If you succeed, you're a master." Honestly, I feel that this might be what happens. So the world doesn't necessarily have to accommodate for a battle of any kind. Also, the Mysterious Tower has lots of floating floors, and I'm sure at least one of them could have been used for a fight. If not, Yen Sid could just magic up a better floor.

As for Mickey and Riku, I'm pretty sure a combination of DDD and BbSv2 will take care of that. IIRC, Nomura never confirmed he was making a game about Riku and Mickey, he just said that those stories are yet to be told, but seeing as a cutscene in Re:coded already showed a brief glimpse of Riku, I think it's safe to say he's thinking about showing the rest somewhere.

I believe Nomura confirmed that DiZ's data won't really come into play in DDD, though. As for Braig, I'm pretty sure that seeing Xion (Sora's replica) appear as Ven tipped him off about Sora's relationship to Ventus, at least enough that Xigbar could recognize the glare.
 

chenoehii

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The MoM exam isn't the same for every master. Eraqus may have had Terra and Aqua fight, but Yen Sid doesn't necessarily have to. Honestly, if Yen Sid felt like it, he could send Sora and Riku on a quest and just say "If you succeed, you're a master." Honestly, I feel that this might be what happens. So the world doesn't necessarily have to accommodate for a battle of any kind. Also, the Mysterious Tower has lots of floating floors, and I'm sure at least one of them could have been used for a fight. If not, Yen Sid could just magic up a better floor.

As for Mickey and Riku, I'm pretty sure a combination of DDD and BbSv2 will take care of that. IIRC, Nomura never confirmed he was making a game about Riku and Mickey, he just said that those stories are yet to be told, but seeing as a cutscene in Re:coded already showed a brief glimpse of Riku, I think it's safe to say he's thinking about showing the rest somewhere.

I believe Nomura confirmed that DiZ's data won't really come into play in DDD, though. As for Braig, I'm pretty sure that seeing Xion (Sora's replica) appear as Ven tipped him off about Sora's relationship to Ventus, at least enough that Xigbar could recognize the glare.

I still think that's a little too simple.. sending them on another quest to prove themselves. They kind of already did that by defeating Xemnas.. But they have to show that they're ready to defeat MX

G2G-but I'll finish what I was saying later :/
 

Sephiroth0812

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As for the purpose of Ansem's data...that one is already clear:

The hidden data of Ansem are his research results on hearts, memories, nobodies and the like.
While Ansem was DiZ he continued and deepened his research (although presumably in a more civil manner than Xehanort did) and it was said that this data will become the "key" to save all the tormented people mentioned in Blank Points.

Compliations remaining regarding this data are however:
-How to access it.
-Explore its content.
-Understand its purpose and the like.
-Learn to effectively use it.

While not all, one or two of these points may very well be addressed in DDD.
 

Love Machine

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I still say the test would be about going into their own hearts and fighting their fears, while trusting themselves to do it. There is darkness in every heart, (excluding the Princesses) so maybe they go inside themselves to fight it. :tongue: Just an idea.
 

localorange

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Then you have four other original KH worlds: Traverse Town, Hollow Bastion, Twilight Town, and Mysterious Tower. Personally I think both the TT's are out(although the symbolic scenes from the DDD trailer suggest Traverse Town's significance to the game) simply bc 1. where would they duel? and 2. those worlds just wouldn't make sense..

Why? Traverse Town has a very symbolic significance to not only the game, but to Sora and Riku personally. As far as where they would duel - that's pretty easy. The fountain courtyard. There's also a courtyard that's a good place for battles in Twilight Town. Both of them would be fine places for Riku and Sora to take their MoM, and Traverse Town is symbolically the better option. Not to mention that world would be part of the "Dream" theme in Dream Drop Distance, because the world doesn't physically exist at this point of the game.


1. How does Braig know of Sora's connection to Ven? In KH2 Xigbar points out that Sora glares at him the same way Ven used to, but the way he worded it, it implies he knows more than he should.. Idk maybe I just read too much into it.
You did and you're pretty off. Braig doesn't know of Sora's connection to Ven. Xigbar saw Ven in Xion because he didn't have a previous relationship with Sora - he had it with Ven, who was taking refuge in Sora's heart at that moment.

On top of that, Xigbar wasn't talking about Ven in KH2 - he was talking about Roxas. It doesn't matter that BBS still exists. He was still talking about Roxas when he said, "Oh yeah! He used to give me that exact same look," etc etc (probably every time Xigbar called him "Tiger." XDD).

Yet at the same time, I think you've got one thing right: Xigbar knows a lot more than people think. That was pretty obvious when he was throwing out riddles in the KH2: FM cutscenes referring to Xemnas's visits to the Chamber of Repose, and he says he hears Xemnas talking to someone in there. The important part here is that Xigbar also says something to the effect that he could have sworn he heard someone answer him back - and I think that's going to be something to look for whenever BBS v2 comes out.

My only conclusion is that Xigbar has an incredibly sharp memory for a nobody. He knows that Xemnas has not only the soul of Xehanort and Terra, and he remembers Ven incredibly clearly. (which is interesting, because Braig only met Ven in the keyblade graveyard. Braig however, got to fight Aqua and lose). He would also without a doubt, recognize Aqua on sight. If there's anyone in the series so far that has a chance of being the primary antagonist for Aqua while she's in the realm of darkness - it would be Xigbar.

2. He obviously knows about Axel and Saix's plot(what their true goal was is still one of the mysteries that has yet to be elaborated on further), judging by the things he said in the Secret Reports in Days, and the fact that Axel is one of the people he's been known to spy on, as we saw in Days.

All of the apprentices actions make me suspicious and think they all knew more than they should.. (shrugs)
Once again, I think Xigbar is really the only one that applies to, because Braig actively volunteered to be Master Xehanort's lackey in BBS, and was right beside Apprentice Xehanort in his machinations. I have a theory that the "seeds" that Master Xehanort talked about planting in the secret ending of BBS were Ansem's apprentices - and more specifically Braig. I think we're going to be seeing Organization members II - VI back in the future. Whether or not they will be nobodies or back to their somebodies is a different story. But to one degree or another, I think they'll all be puppets of Xehanort, or willingly being his lackey (like Braig).

I still say the test would be about going into their own hearts and fighting their fears, while trusting themselves to do it. There is darkness in every heart, (excluding the Princesses) so maybe they go inside themselves to fight it. :tongue: Just an idea.

I think you're onto something here. It would explain (symbolic scene or not), why we saw a transparent Xemnas and Ansem SoD face Sora and Riku when it was clear that the two of them were back to back.
 

chenoehii

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The MoM exam isn't the same for every master. Eraqus may have had Terra and Aqua fight, but Yen Sid doesn't necessarily have to. Honestly, if Yen Sid felt like it, he could send Sora and Riku on a quest and just say "If you succeed, you're a master." Honestly, I feel that this might be what happens. So the world doesn't necessarily have to accommodate for a battle of any kind. Also, the Mysterious Tower has lots of floating floors, and I'm sure at least one of them could have been used for a fight. If not, Yen Sid could just magic up a better floor.

As for Mickey and Riku, I'm pretty sure a combination of DDD and BbSv2 will take care of that. IIRC, Nomura never confirmed he was making a game about Riku and Mickey, he just said that those stories are yet to be told, but seeing as a cutscene in Re:coded already showed a brief glimpse of Riku, I think it's safe to say he's thinking about showing the rest somewhere.

I believe Nomura confirmed that DiZ's data won't really come into play in DDD, though. As for Braig, I'm pretty sure that seeing Xion (Sora's replica) appear as Ven tipped him off about Sora's relationship to Ventus, at least enough that Xigbar could recognize the glare.

I forgot an important thing, Nomura did say this game has something to do with trust.. I still don't think their test is another adventure, I think they'll either fight each other(Side Note: Terra and Aqua fought to become a master, but Mickey went on a quest), or they'll face some kind of fear of theirs. Either way, their strength has been tested, but the strength of their heart has yet to be. At least by Master standards I think.

Floating floors??? o_O o_O where was that? lol

no he didn't come out and say "I'm going to make a game about Riku and Mickey", but every other plot or story he's mentioned has ended up being a game, no? although personally I'm ready to get on to KH3, I still would like some things to be answered before we get to the end.

I don't think the data is an important issue right now either. But it will have to be addressed at some point

The hidden data of Ansem are his research results on hearts, memories, nobodies and the like.
While Ansem was DiZ he continued and deepened his research (although presumably in a more civil manner than Xehanort did) and it was said that this data will become the "key" to save all the tormented people mentioned in Blank Points.

Compliations remaining regarding this data are however:
-How to access it.
-Explore its content.
-Understand its purpose and the like.
-Learn to effectively use it.

Yes, I completely agree. I'm just wondering when it will be revealed

I still say the test would be about going into their own hearts and fighting their fears, while trusting themselves to do it. There is darkness in every heart, (excluding the Princesses) so maybe they go inside themselves to fight it. Just an idea.

........I agree...to an extent......begrudgingly....xP

Why? Traverse Town has a very symbolic significance to not only the game, but to Sora and Riku personally. As far as where they would duel - that's pretty easy. The fountain courtyard. There's also a courtyard that's a good place for battles in Twilight Town. Both of them would be fine places for Riku and Sora to take their MoM, and Traverse Town is symbolically the better option. Not to mention that world would be part of the "Dream" theme in Dream Drop Distance, because the world doesn't physically exist at this point of the game.

You did and you're pretty off. Braig doesn't know of Sora's connection to Ven. Xigbar saw Ven in Xion because he didn't have a previous relationship with Sora - he had it with Ven, who was taking refuge in Sora's heart at that moment.

On top of that, Xigbar wasn't talking about Ven in KH2 - he was talking about Roxas. It doesn't matter that BBS still exists. He was still talking about Roxas when he said, "Oh yeah! He used to give me that exact same look," etc etc (probably every time Xigbar called him "Tiger." XDD).

Yet at the same time, I think you've got one thing right: Xigbar knows a lot more than people think. That was pretty obvious when he was throwing out riddles in the KH2: FM cutscenes referring to Xemnas's visits to the Chamber of Repose, and he says he hears Xemnas talking to someone in there. The important part here is that Xigbar also says something to the effect that he could have sworn he heard someone answer him back - and I think that's going to be something to look for whenever BBS v2 comes out.

My only conclusion is that Xigbar has an incredibly sharp memory for a nobody. He knows that Xemnas has not only the soul of Xehanort and Terra, and he remembers Ven incredibly clearly. (which is interesting, because Braig only met Ven in the keyblade graveyard. Braig however, got to fight Aqua and lose). He would also without a doubt, recognize Aqua on sight. If there's anyone in the series so far that has a chance of being the primary antagonist for Aqua while she's in the realm of darkness - it would be Xigbar.

once again, I think Xigbar is really the only one that applies to, because Braig actively volunteered to be Master Xehanort's lackey in BBS, and was right beside Apprentice Xehanort in his machinations. I have a theory that the "seeds" that Master Xehanort talked about planting in the secret ending of BBS were Ansem's apprentices - and more specifically Braig. I think we're going to be seeing Organization members II - VI back in the future. Whether or not they will be nobodies or back to their somebodies is a different story. But to one degree or another, I think they'll all be puppets of Xehanort, or willingly being his lackey (like Braig).

I think you're onto something here. It would explain (symbolic scene or not), why we saw a transparent Xemnas and Ansem SoD face Sora and Riku when it was clear that the two of them were back to back.

How is it something significant to Riku..? Sora was the one there in the first game, but Traverse Town hasn't even been a main world since KH1(I'm think they went there in Coded, but still).. not including COM for obvious reasons. DDDwill be the first game in a while to make Traverse Town a main world. Besides, we have yet to see what it's real significance is bc we still don't know much about the game....no thanks to Nomura. And Twilight Town.... I just can't see them there, personally. There may be an area they can fight, but I don't really think TT holds as much significance as other worlds do, at least not right now... idk

Aside from the fact that it's been confirmed by Nomura that those scenes(the ones with the floating Sora's and Ansem/Xemnas) aren't real scenes that will appear in the game, I think you have a point. Maybe they get sent to Traverse Town to take the Exam(if they fight each other) and they're in some dream-like state in the real world...... sounds too much like Inception to me Lol Maybe they don't go to fight, maybe they just go through something that tests their trust in each other (shrugs)

You are wrong about one thing though, Nomura has long since confirmed that Xigbar was referring to Ven. It's in one of his interviews.. (sigh) I guess I could go find them :/ besides, why do you think he said what he said to Sora, other than because he said something similar to Ven at Keyblade Graveyard?

If BBS Vol. 2does have something to do with Mickey's time then I think that FM scene will be brought up, your right. I think the apprentices will come back only when the past is shown. Their heartless would have to be destroyed too for them to come back. I don't think Lea has anything to do with Xehanort, nor do I think their plans were to help him, or become his followers, obviously as they were clearly against him in Days, but I do think Isa might have grown up and eventually had something to do with Xehanort

It does make sense
 
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localorange

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How is it something significant to Riku..? Sora was the one there in the first game, but Traverse Town hasn't even been a main world since KH1(I'm think they went there in Coded, but still).. not including COM for obvious reasons. DDDwill be the first game in a while to make Traverse Town a main world. Besides, we have yet to see what it's real significance is

What "real" significance are you talking about? There's already a significance in Traverse Town - and it's a personal emotional one.

The general one is obvious:

According to the Secret Ansem Reports, Traverse Town consists of remnants of worlds whose hearts have been stolen by the Heartless, which is why anyone lucky enough to survive the destruction of their world ends up there.
That's important on a general emotional scale. And more importantly, it holds emotional significance for both Riku and Sora.

-Sora is obvious. He began his adventures here, he was truly introduced to the keyblade here,(meaning he got his exposition about the keyblade from Leon), he met Donald and Goofy here, and he first ran into Riku here - the last time they saw each other was at their home in Destiny Islands.

-And here is where I feel Traverse Town is emotionally important to Riku. It is here where he first began to lose his trust in Sora. He was used to being the oldest - both physically and in an emotionally responsible manner back home. Seeing Sora being able to handle the heartless with the keyblade (when he was fully expecting Sora to need his help, I think), and more importantly, seeing Sora with other friends while traveling on a ship and having "adventures" while not actively looking for Kairi (despite Sora saying they were), caused Riku to be genuinely hurt and angry at Sora.

And then came Maleficent. She jumped in and proceeded to pull at his heartstrings up to the point that Riku fell for what Maleficent was doing, and completely and fully went down his path to darkness.

And Twilight Town.... I just can't see them there, personally. There may be an area they can fight, but I don't really think TT holds as much significance as other worlds do, at least not right now... idk
If Twilight Town appears in the future, I expect it to be exclusively connected to Roxas, Xion, and Axel - since Sora has to "heal their hurts." That's another thing - I don't see Riku in Twilight Town, really. It would more likely be Sora that has to go there.

Aside from the fact that it's been confirmed by Nomura that those scenes(the ones with the floating Sora's and Ansem/Xemnas), I think you have a point. Maybe they get sent to Traverse Town to take the Exam(if they fight each other) and they're in some dream-like state in the real world...... sounds too much like Inception to me Lol Maybe they don't go to fight, maybe they just go through something that tests their trust in each other (shrugs)
I think this is what it would most likely be, since Traverse Town doesn't technically exist anymore. And yeah, there's a lot of hints in DDD that sound way too much like Inception. XDD. At this point I just go with it and do my best to make sense of it all.

You are wrong about one thing though, Nomura has long since confirmed that Xigbar was referring to Ven. It's in one of his interviews.. (sigh) I guess I could go find them :/ besides, why do you think he said what he said to Sora, other than because he said something similar to Ven at Keyblade Graveyard?
Because it's referring to Roxas? Look, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he figured out Ven's connection to Sora (because he is a sneaky troll like that XD), but when you have the time and the patience to do so, I would appreciate it if you could direct me to the interview where Nomura said that. (Key words being "time" and "patience." XD)

If BBS Vol. 2does have something to do with Mickey's time then I think that FM scene will be brought up, your right.
What does Mickey have to do with Xemnas talking to someone mysterious in the Chamber of Repose? Sorry if I wasn't clear about that one, but that scene will have everything to do with Aqua, and nothing with Mickey. There's one scene that shows Xemnas going to the Chamber of Repose and talking to an "old friend." That "old friend" is Aqua's armor and original keyblade, which means that Xemnas has some warped form of Terra inside of him - or his memories. The fact that Xigbar (in a separate KH2: FM cutscene) says to Zexion that he thinks he heard someone talk back to Xemnas is pretty suspicious, because Aqua is busy roaming the RoD.

And I think that whole situation - Xemnas talking to Aqua's armor and keyblade in the Chamber of Repose, and Xigbar swearing that he thought he heard someone answer Xemnas, is something to watch out for when dealing with BBSv2.

I think the apprentices will come back only when the past is shown. Their heartless would have to be destroyed too for them to come back. I don't think Lea has anything to do with Xehanort, nor do I think their plans were to help him, or become his followers, obviously as they were clearly against him in Days, but I do think Isa might have grown up and eventually had something to do with Xehanort
I suggest going back and re-watching Ven's Radiant Garden Scenario again. Lea and Isa were just two good teenage friends that were constantly plotting to break into the Radiant Garden Castle. That's it. So they are in no way involved with Xehanort like the apprentices are.

Now there is a theory floating around that the two of them became nobodies because they were experimented on by Xehanort. Axel and Saix were plotting to take over the Organization together (as shown in Days), and being experimented on by the apprentices and losing their hearts because of it would give them more than ample reason to plot to overthrow the Organization. I have a feeling that Saix was so hellbent on overthrowing Xemnas and toppling the Organization that he simply became tragically corrupted with darkness in the process. Saix is presented as the cool and collected brains (or the blue oni, to quote TV tropes), and Axel is presented as the hot-headed, impulsive doer (or the red oni, to quote TV tropes). By logic, a blu oni type of personality would be the better of a duo to creep up the ranks of Organization XIII and plot to overthrow Xemnas, giving orders to his/her red oni counterpart for them to carry out in the process. This is best seen when Saix passes onto Axel that there are traitors in Castle Oblivion that need to be eliminated.
 

Key of Valor

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Rinney said:
2. Riku was with Mickey for a little while after COM, but then they split up. In Days, the first time we see him(if I'm not mistaken, sorry if I got this wrong:frown:) was when he fights Xion. Where was he before that?

At some point, Mickey and Riku arrived to Hollow Bastion together, but other than that it is unclear where else they went and when they got separated from each other.

Rinney said:
Why does he say to Namine and Axel, in KH2 FM, that he owes them for what they did for him in CO? We can understand Namine, but Axel??

The traitors in the Organization were using Namine to manipulate Sora. Axel let Namine escape though, which completely dismantled Larxene and Marluxia's plan to turn Sora into their puppet. Axel intentionally saved Sora, which is why Riku owed him.
 

noheartx

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Ok, I'm just going to address everything I've seen so far:

The theory at was mentioned a few posts above about Lea and Isa seems the most plausible. Although tboth of their roles when they come back are very uncclear, because of the mystery that surrounds their transition from Somebody to Nobody. Lea seems like he would be on Sora's side, because of his connections to Roxas, while Isa is still up in the air.

As of right now, BBSV2 is assumed to be the adventured of Aqua and Mickey in the time between BBS and KH1. Mickey's story will most likely have to do with the fall of RG, and his search for the KKD, while Aqua's story will probably consist of her going through the RoD with three major possible confrontations. One would be Xigbar, who, like mentioned a few posts up, will probably be the main antagonist for Aqua. He's has a way to go to the RoD, and he could use her for a number of things, with her having a keyblade. That could also explain how the fake KH that the Org made got so big; before Sora they used Aqua. A second confrontation could be between Aqua and Xemnas himself. It would be a very emotional confrontation, and de3finitly something to look forward to. A third confrontation, although it wouldn't necessarily be called that, would be between Riku and Aqua. Aqua's time in the RoD is considerably shorter than the ten years in the RoL, so then its very possible that by the very end of her scenario, she meets RIku, who somehow gets the second keyblade that looks like Destiny's Embrace. In Blank Points, when Aqua meets Ansem the Wise on the Dark Meridian, she is seen without Eraqus' keyblade, so maybe she gave that to Riku and it somehow changed.

I'm pretty sure at this point the MoME is supposed to be an adventure, so I do not think Riku and Sora will fight each other. I think that the test will be both a battle against the darkness in their hearts, and a test of trust. What the exact test will be at this point is unclear, but I'm sure it will have something to do with both making the worlds safer from the threat of heartless etc, and researching about Xehanort's return. I do not believe it will just take place in one world, like Traverse Town or anything like that. There's a reason why we've seen some new worlds.

Where was it said that those scenes we saw were fake? Because that totally annoys the hell outta me. Like, seeing Ansem SoD and Xemnas really threw me for a loop, and now your going to tell me its fake. You need to stop lying to us Nomura -_-.

Xigbar is probably the biggest mystery of all. He has much knowledge about everything that has happened over the years, probably more than anyone else. He knows much about Xemnas, and I'm sure he knows more than he told Zexion in the FM cutscene. Because he knows that Xemnas has the armor, so he knows who he's referring to when he says old friend. So I'm sure he went o pay Aqua a visit in the RoD and screw with her, saying he knows where Terra is, which he does to manipulate her into killing heartless, sending them to the fake KH that the Org made. Which is why it was so big in KH2.

Well thats all i got for now.
 

chenoehii

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What "real" significance are you talking about? There's already a significance in Traverse Town - and it's a personal emotional one.

The general one is obvious:

That's important on a general emotional scale. And more importantly, it holds emotional significance for both Riku and Sora.

-Sora is obvious. He began his adventures here, he was truly introduced to the keyblade here,(meaning he got his exposition about the keyblade from Leon), he met Donald and Goofy here, and he first ran into Riku here - the last time they saw each other was at their home in Destiny Islands.

-And here is where I feel Traverse Town is emotionally important to Riku. It is here where he first began to lose his trust in Sora. He was used to being the oldest - both physically and in an emotionally responsible manner back home. Seeing Sora being able to handle the heartless with the keyblade (when he was fully expecting Sora to need his help, I think), and more importantly, seeing Sora with other friends while traveling on a ship and having "adventures" while not actively looking for Kairi (despite Sora saying they were), caused Riku to be genuinely hurt and angry at Sora.

And then came Maleficent. She jumped in and proceeded to pull at his heartstrings up to the point that Riku fell for what Maleficent was doing, and completely and fully went down his path to darkness.

If Twilight Town appears in the future, I expect it to be exclusively connected to Roxas, Xion, and Axel - since Sora has to "heal their hurts." That's another thing - I don't see Riku in Twilight Town, really. It would more likely be Sora that has to go there.

I think this is what it would most likely be, since Traverse Town doesn't technically exist anymore. And yeah, there's a lot of hints in DDD that sound way too much like Inception. XDD. At this point I just go with it and do my best to make sense of it all.

Because it's referring to Roxas? Look, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he figured out Ven's connection to Sora (because he is a sneaky troll like that XD), but when you have the time and the patience to do so, I would appreciate it if you could direct me to the interview where Nomura said that. (Key words being "time" and "patience." XD)

What does Mickey have to do with Xemnas talking to someone mysterious in the Chamber of Repose? Sorry if I wasn't clear about that one, but that scene will have everything to do with Aqua, and nothing with Mickey. There's one scene that shows Xemnas going to the Chamber of Repose and talking to an "old friend." That "old friend" is Aqua's armor and original keyblade, which means that Xemnas has some warped form of Terra inside of him - or his memories. The fact that Xigbar (in a separate KH2: FM cutscene) says to Zexion that he thinks he heard someone talk back to Xemnas is pretty suspicious, because Aqua is busy roaming the RoD.

And I think that whole situation - Xemnas talking to Aqua's armor and keyblade in the Chamber of Repose, and Xigbar swearing that he thought he heard someone answer Xemnas, is something to watch out for when dealing with BBSv2.

I suggest going back and re-watching Ven's Radiant Garden Scenario again. Lea and Isa were just two good teenage friends that were constantly plotting to break into the Radiant Garden Castle. That's it. So they are in no way involved with Xehanort like the apprentices are.

Now there is a theory floating around that the two of them became nobodies because they were experimented on by Xehanort. Axel and Saix were plotting to take over the Organization together (as shown in Days), and being experimented on by the apprentices and losing their hearts because of it would give them more than ample reason to plot to overthrow the Organization. I have a feeling that Saix was so hellbent on overthrowing Xemnas and toppling the Organization that he simply became tragically corrupted with darkness in the process. Saix is presented as the cool and collected brains (or the blue oni, to quote TV tropes), and Axel is presented as the hot-headed, impulsive doer (or the red oni, to quote TV tropes). By logic, a blu oni type of personality would be the better of a duo to creep up the ranks of Organization XIII and plot to overthrow Xemnas, giving orders to his/her red oni counterpart for them to carry out in the process. This is best seen when Saix passes onto Axel that there are traitors in Castle Oblivion that need to be eliminated.

Sorry, I didn't clarify. I mean the significance TT will hold in DDD, basically what role it will play, what they'll be doing there, general stuff

Idk I'll just have to wait like everyone else 'till we have more to go off of, until then my views on TT will be skeptical at best... If it were up to me there would be no TT at all(sigh) I am little biased when it comes to that world.. playing the game, the world just seemed too weird for me. I guess that's what you get when you have a world made up of remnants of worlds that have been consumed by darkness... :/

Riku did go to Twilight Town a few times, but it was mostly to watch over Sora.. though we do see him watching Xion and Roxas one time..hmm

I'll look up that interview for you, I'm pretty sure it's the one where some of the 'mysteries of the series' are talked about, I just have to do a little digging, I'll post it up when I find it

As for the whole FM scene and Mickey, what this guy said:
As of right now, BBSV2 is assumed to be the adventured of Aqua and Mickey in the time between BBS and KH1. Mickey's story will most likely have to do with the fall of RG, and his search for the KKD, while Aqua's story will probably consist of her going through the RoD with three major possible confrontations.

One of the last stories to be told(Mickeys time traveling alone), Aqua's in the RoD, Xemnas is talking to her armor and Xigbar says someone talks back, but it's near impossible bc she's in the RoD and she never leaves in any way, she says that much herself. I'm just saying that I think all of this will be BBS Vol. 2

I didn't say Lea was involved with Xehanort.. in fact, I said I didn't think he was. I think when Isa grew up, he might have had something to do with Xehanort. The biggest thing that's driving that particular theory for me is the drastic change from his young self to present self. The X shaped scar(very suspicious considering Xehanort's obsession with the letter 'x'), and the obvious physical changes-the golden eyes and the pointed ears. I know people say that anyone who's associated with darkness, or falls into darkness, like the Nobodies, can have characteristics like that. Then why don't Nobodies like say... Axel have gold eyes? Or any of the former apprentices for that matter, even though they willingly gave themselves to darkness? Braig is proof enough by himself that features like his and Saix's have been known to be associated with Xehanort. And before Vanitas is brought up, he was made from darkness. And we don't know that Lea and Isa were just trying to break into the castle. We don't know what they were trying to do, that's the point. Even though they're obviously not the same plans, they still had plans to do something in the Organization, it hasn't been confirmed that they were plotting to overthrow Xemnas, and personally I don't think that was their goal right awayl, just judging by some of the things they said and did in Days. Maybe they wanted to eventually, but I think they would have some things to take care of first, which we saw part of in COM and Days.

I have never seen that theory before but I agree with it where Saix is concerned, however, I don't honestly see how it would work with Lea being experimented on too. But that's using my earlier point, the major difference between Isa and Saix. Also something interesting i just thought of that might go along with this theory, how many times Axel says that Saix changed but he didn't, and how he constantly is pointing out how far apart they are. I know that might have to do with the general becoming a nobody thing but still.. just thought that was interesting

The traitors in the Organization were using Namine to manipulate Sora. Axel let Namine escape though, which completely dismantled Larxene and Marluxia's plan to turn Sora into their puppet. Axel intentionally saved Sora, which is why Riku owed him.

Yes, but we never see him speak to Axel himself. Namine may have been sort of a bridge between them(if she told Riku about what Axel did) but it still leaves questions. Namine would then have to be the one who told Axel that the imposter was Riku, but when did Axel and Namine talk? And if she didn't, then when did Riku and Axel meet? I still say they met at least once before that FM scene, they all seemed way too comfortable around each other if that was the first time they met. And the dialogue suggests it wasn't the first time either, that's what I got from it

I'm pretty sure at this point the MoME is supposed to be an adventure, so I do not think Riku and Sora will fight each other. I think that the test will be both a battle against the darkness in their hearts, and a test of trust. What the exact test will be at this point is unclear, but I'm sure it will have something to do with both making the worlds safer from the threat of heartless etc, and researching about Xehanort's return. I do not believe it will just take place in one world, like Traverse Town or anything like that. There's a reason why we've seen some new worlds.

Here's how I feel. They just came off of an adventure that lasted more than a year. They get this message saying that they have another one ahead of them. The letter suggests they'll go on it immediately. But, the whole point of the MoME(I'm quoting Eraqus here) is to test the strength of your heart. That's why both or neither can make it. The adventure they go on must have something to do with TAV, and the rest of 'those hurting'. Yen Sid says that they'll be facing more than one of Xehanort, so they have to be ready. Nomura said in an interview that the MoME will only take up only part of DDD, not all of it. An adventure now doesn't make sense to a degree... I mean, why wouldn't they just get the test over with and then move on?

Some of the signs point to an adventure, some point to dual. I'd just much rather have a dual. Then have a real adventure once they're both named masters xD

Edit:
Where was it said that those scenes we saw were fake? Because that totally annoys the hell outta me. Like, seeing Ansem SoD and Xemnas really threw me for a loop, and now your going to tell me its fake. You need to stop lying to us Nomura -_-.

Not saying that Sora and Riku won't fight Ansem and Xemnas in DDD, but those particular scenes weren't actual scenes from the game.. they were just good for the purpose of the trailer. lol. I'll try to find that interview too

Xigbar is probably the biggest mystery of all. He has much knowledge about everything that has happened over the years, probably more than anyone else. He knows much about Xemnas, and I'm sure he knows more than he told Zexion in the FM cutscene. Because he knows that Xemnas has the armor, so he knows who he's referring to when he says old friend. So I'm sure he went o pay Aqua a visit in the RoD and screw with her, saying he knows where Terra is, which he does to manipulate her into killing heartless, sending them to the fake KH that the Org made. Which is why it was so big in KH2.

I might could see that happening. For me, more of the messing with her about Terra part though, but who really knows anymore :/

I love your sig by the way ^^
 
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noheartx

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I didn't say Lea was involved with Xehanort.. in fact, I said I didn't think he was. I think when Isa grew up, he might have had something to do with Xehanort. The biggest thing that's driving that particular theory for me is the drastic change from his young self to present self. The X shaped scar(very suspicious considering Xehanort's obsession with the letter 'x'), and the obvious physical changes-the golden eyes and the pointed ears. I know people say that anyone who's associated with darkness, or falls into darkness, like the Nobodies, can have characteristics like that. Then why don't Nobodies like say... Axel have gold eyes? Or any of the former apprentices for that matter, even though they willingly gave themselves to darkness? Braig is proof enough by himself that features like his and Saix's have been known to be associated with Xehanort. And before Vanitas is brought up, he was made from darkness. And we don't know that Lea and Isa were just trying to break into the castle. We don't know what they were trying to do, that's the point. Even though they're obviously not the same plans, they still had plans to do something in the Organization, it hasn't been confirmed that they were plotting to overthrow Xemnas, and personally I don't think that was their goal right awayl, just judging by some of the things they said and did in Days. Maybe they wanted to eventually, but I think they would have some things to take care of first, which we saw part of in COM and Days.

I have never seen that theory before but I agree with it where Saix is concerned, however, I don't honestly see how it would work with Lea being experimented on too. But that's using my earlier point, the major difference between Isa and Saix. Also something interesting i just thought of that might go along with this theory, how many times Axel says that Saix changed but he didn't, and how he constantly is pointing out how far apart they are. I know that might have to do with the general becoming a nobody thing but still.. just thought that was interesting

Well here's the thing. I completely agree with you that Saix has something to do with Xehanort. Something that hasnt even been mentioned in this thread yet is the fact that Saix was turned into a Nobody first. So maybe that's where the experimentation process happened/. Maybe Xehanort saw that Isa had more darkness in his heart than LEa did, so he picked him for the experiment. Lea is then kicked out or whatever, and Isa is turned into a Nobody. Then, at a later date they do the same to Axel, except he rejects the darkness, hence why he doesn't have the Xehanort like features.




Here's how I feel. They just came off of an adventure that lasted more than a year. They get this message saying that they have another one ahead of them. The letter suggests they'll go on it immediately. But, the whole point of the MoME(I'm quoting Eraqus here) is to test the strength of your heart. That's why both or neither can make it. The adventure they go on must have something to do with TAV, and the rest of 'those hurting'. Yen Sid says that they'll be facing more than one of Xehanort, so they have to be ready. Nomura said in an interview that the MoME will only take up only part of DDD, not all of it. An adventure now doesn't make sense to a degree... I mean, why wouldn't they just get the test over with and then move on?

Some of the signs point to an adventure, some point to dual. I'd just much rather have a dual. Then have a real adventure once they're both named masters xD

I don't really think a dual will prove anything. In BBS it only proves that Terra couldn't control his darkness because he had never used it before. Riku has already given into the darkness, so its only natural that he uses it. It's part of his fighting style, so there really isnt much a dual can do for them. On the adventure they can encounter things that force them to make choices, and those choices could affect the world that they are on, or the galaxy as a whole. Even if the MoME isn't the whole game, a dual would take no more than like...10 minutes to do, and it obviously has to be more than that. It's an important element of the game.

I love your sig by the way ^^

Why thank you. I love Xigbar/Braig. He's so cocky and sarcastic, and he's just a boss.
 

localorange

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Well here's the thing. I completely agree with you that Saix has something to do with Xehanort. Something that hasnt even been mentioned in this thread yet is the fact that Saix was turned into a Nobody first. So maybe that's where the experimentation process happened/. Maybe Xehanort saw that Isa had more darkness in his heart than LEa did, so he picked him for the experiment. Lea is then kicked out or whatever, and Isa is turned into a Nobody. Then, at a later date they do the same to Axel, except he rejects the darkness, hence why he doesn't have the Xehanort like features.

I am more of the theory that Saix got his gold eyes and his elf ears during his time in Organization XIII. He was kissing a** to Xemnas for who knows how long, and who knows what Xemnas put Saix up to over the years he was climbing up the ranks. Regardless, Saix would have become more steadily exposed to darkness - hence the gold eyes and the elf ears. Axel didn't get that for a number of reasons - the two biggest ones being that he's not obsessing over kissing a** in to the higher ranking members and is busy carrying out the secret orders that Saix probably gave to him over the years so Saix could climb his way up the ranks, and that he clearly wasn't that interested in gaining more dark power - or just didn't obtain it. He was happy with what he had.

I go by this theory because it fits with the accusation Axel throws out to Saix, especially in the journals - "You've changed." It would make perfect sense for Axel to say this if Axel watched Saix gain dark power: lose his blue eyes and have gold ones, gain elf ears, etc etc.
 

noheartx

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I am more of the theory that Saix got his gold eyes and his elf ears during his time in Organization XIII. He was kissing a** to Xemnas for who knows how long, and who knows what Xemnas put Saix up to over the years he was climbing up the ranks. Regardless, Saix would have become more steadily exposed to darkness - hence the gold eyes and the elf ears. Axel didn't get that for a number of reasons - the two biggest ones being that he's not obsessing over kissing a** in to the higher ranking members and is busy carrying out the secret orders that Saix probably gave to him over the years so Saix could climb his way up the ranks, and that he clearly wasn't that interested in gaining more dark power - or just didn't obtain it. He was happy with what he had.

I go by this theory because it fits with the accusation Axel throws out to Saix, especially in the journals - "You've changed." It would make perfect sense for Axel to say this if Axel watched Saix gain dark power: lose his blue eyes and have gold ones, gain elf ears, etc etc.

All of that sounds plausible, except for one thing. I'm not entierly sure if as a Nobody your appearence can change. We know they can't age, so why would their appearences be able to change. We know it can happen as a Somebody, but there's no evidence that it can happen as a Nobody.
 

Key of Valor

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Rinney said:
Yes, but we never see him speak to Axel himself. Namine may have been sort of a bridge between them(if she told Riku about what Axel did) but it still leaves questions. Namine would then have to be the one who told Axel that the imposter was Riku, but when did Axel and Namine talk? And if she didn't, then when did Riku and Axel meet? I still say they met at least once before that FM scene, they all seemed way too comfortable around each other if that was the first time they met. And the dialogue suggests it wasn't the first time either, that's what I got from it

Axel had dealt with the Riku Replica in Castle Oblivion, so in some way he was familiar with Riku to an extent. At the very least, Axel understood that Riku was very fluent with darkness. After the events that occurred at Castle Oblivion, the Organization was determined to eliminate Riku. DiZ knew the Organization would start looking for Riku which is why he gave Riku and Mickey Organization Coats in order to conceal their existences from detection. Since the Organization was unable to locate Riku, the Organization probably figured that Riku was using something to conceal his presence. When Axel found out the the impostor was a young person with strong combat abilities, dark powers, and an Organization coat, he probably put two and two together. Not to mention, the impostor frequented places such as Castle Oblivion, and Riku was one of the few people outside of the Organization who was aware of the castle's existence. Unlike Sora, Axel doesn't need someone to directly tell him something that should be obvious.

noheartx said:
All of that sounds plausible, except for one thing. I'm not entierly sure if as a Nobody your appearence can change. We know they can't age, so why would their appearences be able to change. We know it can happen as a Somebody, but there's no evidence that it can happen as a Nobody.

I've never been convinced about Nobodies not aging... Ienzo-Zexion, Isa-Saix, Lea-Axel... Maybe the "original composition" (actual vessel) for Nobodies don't age, but appearance-wise, I think they do "age". What I mean by this is that maybe if Axel was to become whole again, he would revert back to the age he was back when he lost his heart.
 

chenoehii

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Well here's the thing. I completely agree with you that Saix has something to do with Xehanort. Something that hasnt even been mentioned in this thread yet is the fact that Saix was turned into a Nobody first. So maybe that's where the experimentation process happened/. Maybe Xehanort saw that Isa had more darkness in his heart than LEa did, so he picked him for the experiment. Lea is then kicked out or whatever, and Isa is turned into a Nobody. Then, at a later date they do the same to Axel, except he rejects the darkness, hence why he doesn't have the Xehanort like features.






I don't really think a dual will prove anything. In BBS it only proves that Terra couldn't control his darkness because he had never used it before. Riku has already given into the darkness, so its only natural that he uses it. It's part of his fighting style, so there really isnt much a dual can do for them. On the adventure they can encounter things that force them to make choices, and those choices could affect the world that they are on, or the galaxy as a whole. Even if the MoME isn't the whole game, a dual would take no more than like...10 minutes to do, and it obviously has to be more than that. It's an important element of the game.



Why thank you. I love Xigbar/Braig. He's so cocky and sarcastic, and he's just a boss.

It says Saix was a nobody first, but that they joined together. I think Isa was experimented on causing his features to change, bc a nobody is a shell of their former self. We've seen that they can age yes, but the golden eyes and pointed ears are symbols of darkness, meaning it would make more sense for him to have before he became a nobody, bc then he's already in darkness. I'll say again, the apprentices were the ones dabbling in darkness knowing full well what they were doing, it anyone were to have symbols of darkness it would be them. But they don't, so the theory of Saix being experimented on is spot on in my opinion.

About Lea, I have this theory that Lea only gave himself to darkness to join Isa(now Saix). To me it would make sense, remember when Saix said in KH2 FM that Axel couldn't stand not having a heart? What I get from some of the things he says and does, it that he dislikes being a Nobody more than anyone else. Maybe he only became a Nobody so he and Saix could go through with their new plans, whatever that entailed. Another thing, it's not really important, but one thing did change between Lea and Axel-the eyes again. They changed from blue/green to Axel's acid green, ? What's the deal with that? I have a feeling, while family may not come into play in KH-or so Nomura says-that eye colors are important. Just an idea.

Yea, I just don't think it will be the most important part of the game, and thus take up a lot of time. (sigh) I like the idea of them becoming Masters and all, but I just wish they would do it like BBS, it was important in many ways bc it made Terra doubt himself which started that train, but it was in the very beginning, so it set up a lot of the other things that happened. But I find it hard to believe they would do the same in DDD...:$

Yes, Xigbar is one of my favorite Nobodies, and Braig is so cool in BBS. Sneaky little guy isn't he?

All of that sounds plausible, except for one thing. I'm not entierly sure if as a Nobody your appearence can change. We know they can't age, so why would their appearences be able to change. We know it can happen as a Somebody, but there's no evidence that it can happen as a Nobody.

I'm pretty sure they can age, think about the timeline between BBS and KH2, if the apprentices fell into darkness a few years after BBS then their appearance would be practically the same in KH2. Where as the eyes and ears, symbols of darkness, are permanent physical features, they have nothing to do with the Nobodies aging. Of course, that theory only works if it only took them a few years to fall. If not, then no, they can't age.
 

chenoehii

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Axel had dealt with the Riku Replica in Castle Oblivion, so in some way he was familiar with Riku to an extent. At the very least, Axel understood that Riku was very fluent with darkness. After the events that occurred at Castle Oblivion, the Organization was determined to eliminate Riku. DiZ knew the Organization would start looking for Riku which is why he gave Riku and Mickey Organization Coats in order to conceal their existences from detection. Since the Organization was unable to locate Riku, the Organization probably figured that Riku was using something to conceal his presence. When Axel found out the the impostor was a young person with strong combat abilities, dark powers, and an Organization coat, he probably put two and two together. Not to mention, the impostor frequented places such as Castle Oblivion, and Riku was one of the few people outside of the Organization who was aware of the castle's existence. Unlike Sora, Axel doesn't need someone to directly tell him something that should be obvious.

..Repliku is not the same thing as the real Riku though.

What your saying makes sense yes, but it still doesn't tell me why Axel is as familiar with Riku as he is, the whole thing makes it seem like they've met personally. I believe this even more now bc we see Riku at TT looking down on Xion and Roxas. Maybe he and Axel met there?

EDIT: Oooops..double post(slams head on imaginary desk)
 

Key of Valor

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Rinney said:
..Repliku is not the same thing as the real Riku though.

True, but they're similar. My point was that Axel interacting with Riku wouldn't entirely be a new experience for him, since he had experience with dealing with the fake Riku. As for Riku, in KH'Days the only time he directly dealt with Axel was while he was running through Twilight Town to get away from Axel and Roxas. However, Riku probably heard about Axel from Namine's story and maybe even from Xion too. Not to mention, Riku seemingly spied and certain Organization members, such as Roxas and Xion, so it's possible that he may have observed Axel as well and became familiar with Axel during the surveillance. Lastly, KH'Days doesn't follow every Organization member on every single day, so it's possible that Axel and Riku may have met another time... though I personally don't believe they did.

Rinney said:
What your saying makes sense yes, but it still doesn't tell me why Axel is as familiar with Riku as he is, the whole thing makes it seem like they've met personally. I believe this even more now bc we see Riku at TT looking down on Xion and Roxas. Maybe he and Axel met there?

KH'Days doesn't completely line up with KH2 as well as it should. It does seem like Axel and Riku are familiar with each other "to a small extent", so I understand if you don't feel that their interactions (or lack thereof) in CoM'R/R and Days were enough to set up that familiarity. KH2 also implied that Roxas was familiar with DiZ's existence prior to being captured by Riku, but KH'Days never showed Roxas even being aware of him.
 

localorange

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All of that sounds plausible, except for one thing. I'm not entierly sure if as a Nobody your appearence can change. We know they can't age, so why would their appearences be able to change. We know it can happen as a Somebody, but there's no evidence that it can happen as a Nobody.

I've always felt that a body prematurely can age if one immerses themselves into darkness up to the point that they get severely corrupted. It's the only way I can easily explain Xigbar's hair getting so ridiculously long and starting to grey in my mind, for example, because all evidence points to Radiant Garden falling to darkness 1 year after the events of BBS. No one can get their hair to that length within a year naturally, and Braig always struck me as a guy who was pretty arrogant when it came to every single aspect of himself that you could possibly think of. Not to mention there's his greying that needs to be explained.

And I can see Saix feeling that he had to participate in whatever dark activities that Xemnas was interested in so he can better kiss his a** . And then he'd get corrupted by the darkness and the power as a nobody.
 
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