News ► KINGDOM HEARTS 2.8 in Weekly Famitsu!

[DarkosOverlord]

People are actually proposing that Ephemer and Luxu are one and the same now? With what reasoning for Chirithy's sake? They are nothing alike and while Ephemer is seeking for answers about the truth Luxu is the one who should probably know the most out of everyone except maybe the Master of Masters.
Doesn't really add up at all.



Ugh, don't remind me of that mindset.
By now it has gotten so far that I actually get some tingling sense of true annoyance everytime this theory gets brought up.
You can only repeat a certain "twist" once or twice in an ongoing tale before it starts to get stale, boring and annoying.

At least Ephemer and Luxu are both new characters so there wouldn't actually be yet another copy of an already existing character if for whatever reason they would really be connected or even "the same" (and I still do not get from where this suddenly comes, we haven't even translations for that article yet and them being featured beside each other is most likely only because they're both from Back Cover in this case).

My point exactly.
I feel like... I don't know, I think suggesting and supporting reincarnations theories make the fans think they're smart, or something.
Exactly since such tropes are ussually linked to complex and intellectuals works.
There's nothing wrong with that, but it does pop up a lot only for that reason (just like the "main character was in a coma the whole time" theory)

Xenogears pulled off the concept of Reincarnation fantastically well. Just because a Reincarnated version of a character exist doesn't immediately strip them away of their "individuality", plus, you have to consider the fact that it's just limited to the BBS Trio and Destiny Islands duo.

Works such as Xenogears, for example, yes.
By all means, the reincarnation in itself isn't bad, and it became quite the trend for a while in japanese media.
The thing is... KH already showed how it handles things such as parallelism and inheritances, and I know I said this countless times, but I feel they're more close to Naruto's level of reincarnation than Xenogears:

"See this dude? That's you in another time. Now that we've established that's you, we feel like we don't need to give him further characterization or background, because it's basically you and we all know you. Oh btw all the stuff you did was to feed the parallel, you actually don't have any kind of will of your own."

Maybe a little too critic, but that's the general gist of it. It's undeniable Aced shares a lot with Terra: but keep it a similarity, like Aced and Terra are two similar people like it happens in real life, don't try to forcefeed us that they're a mirror of each other.
Xenogears focused almost everything on the reincarnation thingie, and Kingdom Hearts doesn't have that luxury.

I get the feeling that the ones who see Ephemer and Luxu's placing as "evidence" are just seeing what they want to see at this point. I can't really think of a very strong reason why Luxu would be Ephemer beyond just being able to say

I know the end will be near when we'll receive the M Night Shyamalan medal on Ux.

 

[Muke]

Well, @BlackOs, Nomura did say he wants to include as many twists as he can, which is really… garbage.
I'unno, I do like how Gelandporn thought everything out and all, but I'm still not a supporter of the theory (or any rebirth theory for that matter).

 

[Alpha Baymax]

It does add another layer of useless baggage that doesn't enrich the story in any way though except making it more confusing, not to mention yielding yet another set of "visual" clones.
"Just" BBS Trio and Destiny Islands trio is funny to say when that is exactly the problem since strictly visually spoken we already have three Soras (Sora himself, Vanitas and Data-Sora), two Ventus' (Ventus himself and Roxas), three Riku's (Riku himself, Riku Replica and Data-Riku) and three Kairi's (Kairi herself, Naminé and Xion).
Out of these six characters in those two trios, only two are without a clone yet (only one even if you want to count Terra-Xehanort as a Terra-clone) and Aqua's high popularity within the fandom stems at least partly from the fact that she hasn't got a visual clone/derived other self of her running around.

Then there's also the saying of "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb", meaning that connections and bonds/relationships formed by choice hold more meaning and importance than those dictated to oneself by mere biology or something bullshitty as "fate".

How can you assume that the hypothetical reincarnation of the Keyblade protagonists have no purpose when you don't explicitly know why it was executed in the first place. I understand that you're fed up of the clones in the franchise, but truth be told, clones are fairly reflective of Disney characters too. Just look at how many different Mickey Mouse reincarnations there are throughout history...

Clones are just a staple in the Kingdom Hearts franchise and I highly doubt that they are going to go away any time soon. If the Foretellers end up being entirely original characters, that'd be awesome too, however, having them be reincarnation really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

Works such as Xenogears, for example, yes.
By all means, the reincarnation in itself isn't bad, and it became quite the trend for a while in japanese media.
The thing is... KH already showed how it handles things such as parallelism and inheritances, and I know I said this countless times, but I feel they're more close to Naruto's level of reincarnation than Xenogears:


"See this dude? That's you in another time. Now that we've established that's you, we feel like we don't need to give him further characterization or background, because it's basically you and we all know you. Oh btw all the stuff you did was to feed the parallel, you actually don't have any kind of will of your own."


Maybe a little too critic, but that's the general gist of it. It's undeniable Aced shares a lot with Terra: but keep it a similarity, like Aced and Terra are two similar people like it happens in real life, don't try to forcefeed us that they're a mirror of each other.
Xenogears focused almost everything on the reincarnation thingie, and Kingdom Hearts doesn't have that luxury.

I'm personally not going to assume Nomura's storytelling because I'm not Nomura.

However, you have to remember, Xenogears achieved that through a single entry, Kingdom Hearts X Back Cover can also have the possibility of achieving that too if it is executed correctly. I'm personally optimistic that it can be pulled off correctly.

 

[VoidGear.]

Maybe we should re-open the case if Kairi is really a Princess of Heart then?

Ohmigawd what if Luxu is actually a person with no darkness in his heart and the father of all princesses of heart and we just didn't know that yet?!?!?!?!?!?! Ohmigawd I mean he could basically be Eraqus and it'd make sense since Eraqus is obsessed with light?!?! Then he tried to kill Ventus because he was afraid of someone else having kids with pure light in them. Such danger, wow!![/QUOTE]

 

[Launchpad]

regarding Nomura and his twists, I really don't think the guy is a great storyteller at all. KH1 and some of the other games have a few flash-in-the-pan moments of brilliance, but I'm convinced it's either an accident or it's someone else doing something right.

Going outside of what people expect for the sake of being 'surprising' is shit. People like tropes. People like to see certain NORMAL things happen. And sometimes, they do! Donald and Goofy flying in and saving Riku from Ansem's Guardian isn't original genius writing, but it's goddamn fun and satisfying to see happen. The games need to have more fun and tell satisfying stories with straightforward arcs.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

Alpha, come on.
I respect your point, but Mickey's redesign is hardly a reincarnation as addressed in this thread (which isn't about this, come to think of it.)

Going outside of what people expect for the sake of being 'surprising' is shit. People like tropes. People like to see certain NORMAL things happen. And sometimes, they do! Donald and Goofy flying in and saving Riku from Ansem's Guardian isn't original genius writing, but it's goddamn fun and satisfying to see happen. The games need to have more fun and tell satisfying stories with straightforward arcs.

Nomura... I'm farily okay with what he decides to make, it's more about how he presents it.
Dude can make every clone and look-alike he wants, as long as the reason is easily accessible and doesn't spawn thousands fake theories that will stagnate in the fandom for a good decade.

I agree with your point of tropes, generally. There are some really good complicated stories, and some really good simplistic ones. And other that keep it balanced.
I like KH because I feel it has... if not the best, good elements of the two worlds, with a slight tendency to sometime going overboard on the plot twists.
I still agree with Kirbopher, who said that time travelling and how was introduced was the last thing the saga needed.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Is it odd how I feel like the only real clones in the series are Repliku and the Data versions of Sora, Riku, and Roxas?

 

[VoidGear.]

Is it odd how I feel like the only real clones in the series are Repliku and the Data versions of Sora, Riku, and Roxas?

Clone might not be the perfect word, it's rather forced connections so rarely anyone is a real stand-alone-character.

 

[OathkeeperRoxas XIII]

Did anyone grow up with Buffy, Charmed, Sailor Moon, or Inuyasha because I have to repeat this Everytime a thread goes into denying the rebirth theory thinking it'll ruin the Fartellers or the current cast.

No matter who you were in the past, doesn't change who you are in the present. The future is yours to make, your ancestors or past lives don't make you, you do.

Even if and only if the Fartellers reborn into Kairi, Aqua, Terra, Ven, and Riku, all the present have to do is not let history repeat. Have trust in each other and keep the light and dark safe from those who will upset the balance.

 

[kirabook]

So fun note:

Ephemer has skinny arms and Luxu is buff so we can all give up on the theory that they are the same person. Luxu is also slightly taller even with the slight heel on his boots.

I told myself this, but then my brain says, "It's a trickkkk"

I have no strong urge for them to be the same person. I also don't think it's a big deal if they were. It's not like the other 'clones' of the new series. They're both from the same game.

Just the way they are laid out on this page... it's probably nothing. But something is never nothing in KH. I have a very open mind as always.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

Did anyone grow up with Buffy, Charmed, Sailor Moon, or Inuyasha because I have to repeat this Everytime a thread goes into denying the rebirth theory thinking it'll ruin the Fartellers or the current cast.

No matter who you were in the past, doesn't change who you are in the present. The future is yours to make, your ancestors or past lives don't make you, you do.

Even if and only if the Fartellers reborn into Kairi, Aqua, Terra, Ven, and Riku, all the present have to do is not let history repeat. Have trust in each other and keep the light and dark safe from those who will upset the balance.

Turns out, that's not how every media thinks. I've seen plenty of works where who you were was literally the only deciding factor.

Besides, this is quite different. I'm not afraid of the past (the Foretellers) ruining the present (Terra, Aqua, and company), but the opposite: that since the present was already established and -kinda- described, the devs feel like there's no need to further develop the past and that passing them as "former x" is good enough.

You're making a good point, but it's actually not relevant since it's focused on the present and the future, taking the past for granted, while the past is the only issue here.

 

[stareyedprince]

Well that didn't take long for the rebirth theory to pop up

Don't want to stir the pot too much, but while I don't like the rebirth theory (everyone complains about sameface/clones but want reincarnations to happen what) I wouldn't really mind it too much if it happened, mostly because the only forced clones to me are the data versions, and everyone else feels different and unique enough to not be a straight up clones in my eyes. that's just my onion tho

What i'm worried about is that 2.8 is coming out in a month, and still no sign of Skuld. I know she doesn't show up until January in Global but considering she's been out in JPux for a while im getting a bit worried.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

So fun note:

Ephemer has skinny arms and Luxu is buff so we can all give up on the theory that they are the same person. Luxu is also slightly taller even with the slight heel on his boots.

Anchor Arms.
Also they actually are the same height. Luxu's render is just raised a little higher in the magazing.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Namine and Xion really don't look that much like Kairi to me tbh

 

[Audo]

Namine and Xion really don't look that much like Kairi to me tbh

they literally have the exact same face model, the only thing different is the hair.

 

[palizinhas]

I feel like I really don't take the whole "clone" thing too seriously when my favorite show when I was younger was The Clone Wars, so people looking alike is pretty much whatever for me. Me not wanting the Rebirth theory to be true comes from the fact I find connecting the present day characters to the Chi ones to come out of nowhere, but if it was well handled I could probably handle it.

At this point, characters looking alike is basically a staple in this series, anyway, so I wouldn't exactly be surprised if the Rebirth theory's true. I think by the time Birth by Sleep came out, characters being connected to each other stopped being a twist and turned more into the expectation. Maybe the twist now is that they aren't connected.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

How can you assume that the hypothetical reincarnation of the Keyblade protagonists have no purpose when you don't explicitly know why it was executed in the first place. I understand that you're fed up of the clones in the franchise, but truth be told, clones are fairly reflective of Disney characters too. Just look at how many different Mickey Mouse reincarnations there are throughout history...

Clones are just a staple in the Kingdom Hearts franchise and I highly doubt that they are going to go away any time soon. If the Foretellers end up being entirely original characters, that'd be awesome too, however, having them be reincarnation really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

I can assume that because we already had the "another version of you"-shtick already four or five times in the series with only small details differing between the several cases.
It was always only a device used to establish somewhat forced connections and to stir up drama and existential angst for the characters in question.
We do not need to run that scenario for the 10th time.
Kingdom Hearts III should be about saving the suffering people mentioned in Blank Points and finally defeating Xehanort for good, bringing the whole story established in KH 1 up to DDD to an closure, not about the major characters angsting and brooding over being some stupid reincarnations of some masked weirdos from 1000 years ago.

You're not seriously comparing mere redesigns of Mickey throughout Disney history to what the KH series actually does, do you?
That's not even an example of what "reincarnation" means in the actual context of the concept.

A "staple" that has already been criticized in more ways than one not to mention that something being a staple does not warrant overusing a trope/story device just because you can.
Considering how often we already had it it also isn't really a surprise nor "shocking" in any way, just lame, laughable and predictable.
If Back Cover really ends with one or more of the Foretellers revealing their faces to be just like anyone of TAV, Riku, Kairi or Sora at least my reaction will only be "meh, boring, an F for creativity and another F for milking already used storytelling devices to death."
That same goes by the way for the issue if Xehanort is revealed to be yet another pawn by someone else as the "man-behind-the-man"-device has also been used by the KH series more than enough by now.

Ohmigawd what if Luxu is actually a person with no darkness in his heart and the father of all princesses of heart and we just didn't know that yet?!?!?!?!?!?! Ohmigawd I mean he could basically be Eraqus and it'd make sense since Eraqus is obsessed with light?!?! Then he tried to kill Ventus because he was afraid of someone else having kids with pure light in them. Such danger, wow!!

Hmm, yep, quite twisty and "surprising" as Nomura likes it.
Or to throw in another twist, what if actually both Xehanort and Eraqus are Luxu, as in his light and dark side respectively. Luxu's heart was split into light and dark at the end of the Keyblade War, possibly due to being too close to the shattering X-blade?

regarding Nomura and his twists, I really don't think the guy is a great storyteller at all. KH1 and some of the other games have a few flash-in-the-pan moments of brilliance, but I'm convinced it's either an accident or it's someone else doing something right.

Nomura is much like George Lucas in this vein as he has many creative and good ideas, but sucks in presenting them in a conveniently and working way.
There is a quality gap between having the ideas and actually implementing them correctly.

Is it odd how I feel like the only real clones in the series are Repliku and the Data versions of Sora, Riku, and Roxas?

That's why I explicitly call them "visual" clones when speaking about all of them. It should by now be obvious that these characters are all their own individuals with their own heart (and I am one of the people who staunchily defends that notion), but that doesn't change the fact that they're visually identical clones at the core.
Kairi, Xion and Naminé as well as Sora, Roxas, Ventus and Vanitas all have the exact same face, the only differences being clothing, hair styles and sometimes color as well as some (minor) differences in physique like i.e. Vanitas is a bit more muscular than the other three while Ventus is the skinniest out of them.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Anchor Arms.
Also they actually are the same height. Luxu's render is just raised a little higher in the magazing.

I measured from their right foot to their head and Luxu is slightly taller but I might have done the comparison wrong...

 

[kirabook]

There are a few reasons why I keep getting Ephemera = Luxu vibes, but at the same time, it doesn't make much sense given what we know so far. Even his name "Ephemera/Ephemer" seems like a disguise or something. There's just something about cinnamon roll Ephermera that has me double take now and again and I don't know why. Yet.

Is it a 'twist'??? No, not really. Like most of Nomura's 'twists', fans guess them months and months before the games even release and they aren't even that crazy or wild.

Terra is somehow Xemnas/Xehanort/ASoD? Yep.
Roxas is Sora's other self/nobody? Yep.
Vanitas has Sora's face? I was here when people were lining up the points of their bangs!

There are no twists in the KH lore that I feel were out of this world or something we couldn't come up with. None except time travel maybe. Something I still have trouble grasping and wish Nomura had stuck to Xehanort using scientific clones and not just past versions of himself. But I digress.

If Ephemera is Luxu, it will be the most unsurprising twist ever imo. It's not much of a twist, and it doesn't change the story significantly. It just introduces lots of drama.

 

[Lonbilly]

As unlikely as it is to happen (and it would open up quite a bit of cans of worms of time travel and shit), I'd actually like to see that Ephemer is actually of the same bloodline of Xehanort, but without being an actual Xehanort clone and without being evil. Like others have said in other threads, family has never taken such a huge presence in the series, so it'd be a little uncanny now, but I actually wouldn't mind it at all. Have yet to play chi, but everyone loves lil Ephemer, and if Skuld, Ephemer, and Player are somehow able to actually be present in the current timeline, it makes sense that one of them could be used as a potential Seed, and I can't see Xehanort passing up someone who has knowledge of the old Keybalde War and is of the same bloodline as him as part of the new Org.

But like I said, it opens up a whole new can of worms.

As for Luxu being Ephemer, I've been wondering this for months (as Kira mentioned other people seeing it miles away, as well as the fanbase ALWAYS being able to figure out the plotline about seven years before the game is actually released), but I have to wonder plot-wise, what would actually benefit from that? And honestly, I'm kind of holding out hope that Luxu is one of the good guys/morally ambiguous and the MoM is actually the villain (but is killed off or just sealed away for another saga AT WORST because Xehanort needs the spotlight in his last installment).