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Kairi: The Thread



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Cumguardian69

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Tifa and Aerith are both bad characters that Nomura had a hand in.

But back to Kairi, she needs to be an offensive wielder that takes charge. Give her a growth spurt (literally, make her taller) and make her thicker more muscular, so that she doesnt appear at first glance as meager, frail, or tiny. Then train her the right way so she is on the path of being like Invi or Ava. Then it's GG, no way can you poorly handle a character with combat experience
 

Face My Fears

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Tifa and Aerith are both bad characters that Nomura had a hand in.

But back to Kairi, she needs to be an offensive wielder that takes charge. Give her a growth spurt (literally, make her taller) and make her thicker more muscular, so that she doesnt appear at first glance as meager, frail, or tiny. Then train her the right way so she is on the path of being like Invi or Ava. Then it's GG, no way can you poorly handle a character with combat experience
I never played FFVII, but I always assumed that Tifa and Aerith were legendary characters that were written well.

I really wish that ReMIND gave us a cutscene of Kairi/Axel training, then Merlin telling them that it's time for them to fight each other to test themselves. You would play as Kairi, so it would be canon that she beat Axel. In my head, I believe that this happened in the Secret Forest. I might have thrown in Axel mistaking Kairi for Xion with the Kingdom Key, which would make him a little disoriented to add to the main plot of Xion's return, but ultimately Kairi would beat Axel.
 

pastel.goblin

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I will say that I think MoM will be revolutionary to the KH series because all the female characters are no longer in peril or trapped, and they all have access to their full abilities (more or less). Nomura had excuses during the Dark Seeker Saga for why certain characters like Kairi couldn't be involved (whether they were good or not, I won't get into that), but now there are no excuses. Which is why I think MoM was a natural game to pop up in the series at this point. In the story world, Kairi can FINALLY do something to find Sora and she actually does. She isn't stranded on an island or "not trained", so I like that Nomura did the logical/natural thing and had Kairi begin the search for Sora or at least be a major part of it.
...but she's not even playable in "her" game. And we've seen nothing indicating that Naminé will be involved despite her having a perfect reason to. Instead we get AtW and co. I'm really hoping I'm wrong, and I'll still enjoy the gameplay but this is highly likely to be another missed opportunity to give at least some of the female characters better treatment.
 

Face My Fears

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...but she's not even playable in "her" game. And we've seen nothing indicating that Naminé will be involved despite her having a perfect reason to. Instead we get AtW and co. I'm really hoping I'm wrong, and I'll still enjoy the gameplay but this is highly likely to be another missed opportunity to give at least some of the female characters better treatment.
I know that she's not playable in "her game", but MoM is clearly just a rhythm game with story elements in it. I think the important thing is that the story elements are hers. I mean in a game like MoM where there is very little difference in the teams you use besides aesthetics, would it really matter?

I think it's a move in the right direction to have the very first game to kick off post-KH3 to focus on Kairi. I wish Namine was involved, but we don't know yet. I will definitely be upset if Namine or Xion isn't involved with going into Kairi's memories or whatever they're doing, because those two are very good candidates to be involved. Although, I wouldn't dismiss Ansem The Wise because if he ruled Radiant Garden while Kairi was a child, maybe there is some connection that we don't know? Possibly the link between Subject X and Kairi?
 

Foxycian

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There is no denying that the Kh girls were treated bad

Kairi was relevant to the story of KH1 and somewhat Kh2 but was never playable or party member until kh3 and Re:mind

Namine was relevant in Com but never playable and have less screen time then Kairi...

Xion was relevant in Days but not any other kingdom hearts game, but she was somewhat playable, she is playable in the mission mode but not the main story, I don’t know if we can we Count the DS game as playable tbh

Aqua was not relevant to the story of birth by sleep but was playable and had more screen time and gameplay more then all girls combined and had small role of wanting to save her friends in KH3 but instead she and Ventus ended up being the tag along while Sora do most of the saving for them

I always saw that those 4 KH Female characters didn’t have a fair treatment no matter what fans say otherwise, they either have story relevance but no gameplay or just have gameplay but no story relevance, hopefully Nomura will make them both equally in Relevance and gameplay, even if their role is small I don’t mind just make them playable and play a part in the story instead of just being there.
 

Face My Fears

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There is no denying that the Kh girls were treated bad

Kairi was relevant to the story of KH1 and somewhat Kh2 but was never playable or party member until kh3 and Re:mind

Namine was relevant in Com but never playable and have less screen time then Kairi...

Xion was relevant in Days but not any other kingdom hearts game, but she was somewhat playable, she is playable in the mission mode but not the main story, I don’t know if we can we Count the DS game as playable tbh

Aqua was not relevant to the story of birth by sleep but was playable and had more screen time and gameplay more then all girls combined and had small role of wanting to save her friends in KH3 but instead she and Ventus ended up being the tag along while Sora do most of the saving for them

I always saw that those 4 KH Female characters didn’t have a fair treatment no matter what fans say otherwise, they either have story relevance but no gameplay or just have gameplay but no story relevance, hopefully Nomura will make them both equally in Relevance and gameplay, even if their role is small I don’t mind just make them playable and play a part in the story instead of just being there.
I don't think being playable equates to female characters being well written or being treated fairly. Honestly, I think if they developed the female characters like they did some of the male characters, and they weren't playable as much as the other male characters, I would be fine with that. I mean look at Axel, he wasn't playable until the mission mode in Days (which barely counts), yet his development (at least in KHCoM-2) was amazing and had fans begging for more. They need to just give the female characters more scenes and actually develop them. They're all just props to move along Nomura's story and/or props to give development/emotional depth to male characters (like Kairi is to Sora).

The biggest injustice that the main female characters in KH (by that I mean Kairi, Namine, Xion, and Aqua) suffered was ALWAYS being brushed to the side and actively kept out of the story. Namine, Xion, and Aqua I can kind of understand pre-KH3 due to their stories, but Kairi being kept out of coded and 3D made no sense. At that point, she had a keyblade and some experience fighting (more than Sora did when he started in KH1) and they could have written in "light powers". Especially in 3D, when Sora was going to be possessed, I thought the person that came to save him was Kairi... turned out to be Axel. If they didn't want to do Kairi alone saving them, they could have had Axel and Kairi. That was one of the most questionable choices Nomura made in writing KH to me - it would have been THE perfect moment to set up all the protagonists that we've known since KH1 (Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Donald, and Goofy) to actually see the villains in KH3. Also (considering MoM's story), Xemnas saying "you" to Axel would have been even more relevant if it were Kairi instead.
 

Foxycian

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I don't think being playable equates to female characters being well written or being treated fairly. Honestly, I think if they developed the female characters like they did some of the male characters, and they weren't playable as much as the other male characters, I would be fine with that. I mean look at Axel, he wasn't playable until the mission mode in Days (which barely counts), yet his development (at least in KHCoM-2) was amazing and had fans begging for more. They need to just give the female characters more scenes and actually develop them. They're all just props to move along Nomura's story and/or props to give development/emotional depth to male characters (like Kairi is to Sora).

The biggest injustice that the main female characters in KH (by that I mean Kairi, Namine, Xion, and Aqua) suffered was ALWAYS being brushed to the side and actively kept out of the story. Namine, Xion, and Aqua I can kind of understand pre-KH3 due to their stories, but Kairi being kept out of coded and 3D made no sense. At that point, she had a keyblade and some experience fighting (more than Sora did when he started in KH1) and they could have written in "light powers". Especially in 3D, when Sora was going to be possessed, I thought the person that came to save him was Kairi... turned out to be Axel. If they didn't want to do Kairi alone saving them, they could have had Axel and Kairi. That was one of the most questionable choices Nomura made in writing KH to me - it would have been THE perfect moment to set up all the protagonists that we've known since KH1 (Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Donald, and Goofy) to actually see the villains in KH3. Also (considering MoM's story), Xemnas saying "you" to Axel would have been even more relevant if it were Kairi instead.
the KhX characters Ava invi Skuld and strelitzia seem to be involved in the story as equally as the male characters, i say these four characters were done right, hopefully the OG ones Kairi Aqua Xion And Namine get their fair share in the future even if their role is minor I don’t mind as long they get more character development and story relevance.
 

Sign

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Especially in 3D, when Sora was going to be possessed, I thought the person that came to save him was Kairi... turned out to be Axel. If they didn't want to do Kairi alone saving them, they could have had Axel and Kairi.

Sending someone with no combat training right into the enemy stronghold where two competent Keyblade wielders were just bodied is such a bad idea.

the KhX characters Ava invi Skuld and strelitzia seem to be involved in the story as equally as the male characters, i say these four characters were done right.

I love the UX characters but the girls are hardly any better than the ones from the console games. Of these four, you could only really say Ava is well involved. Invi did fuck all in KHX and was hardly any better in Back Cover, Skuld has been reduced to being Ven's babysitter, and Strelitzia just died to drive the story and provide angst.
 

Face My Fears

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the KhX characters Ava invi Skuld and strelitzia seem to be involved in the story as equally as the male characters, i say these four characters were done right, hopefully the OG ones Kairi Aqua Xion And Namine get their fair share in the future even if their role is minor I don’t mind as long they get more character development and story relevance.
I don't keep up with KHUX at all, I only watched the movie. I liked Ava, so I hope to see more from her especially because she didn't show up at the end of KH3. I always thought Skuld was a guy whenever I saw the name mentioned on here, so good to know that she's a girl.
Sending someone with no combat training right into the enemy stronghold where two competent Keyblade wielders were just bodied is such a bad idea.
This is exactly the issue with Nomura. For some situations, logic controls his every being... most of these situations are with the female characters. While for guys, he "Nomuras" away logic to allow whatever the story needs to happen, happen. So yes, you're right that sending in Kairi into the enemy's stronghold with no training is a bad idea... but Nomura could have easily "Nomura'd" Kairi and given her training. Kairi could have appeared, everyone gasp in shock, then have Ansem make a comment about her being inexperienced and her appearance actually helping the Organization, then Kairi smirks does some amazing move that stuns all of the Norts, then she quips that she's "been training" or something like "what do you think I do all day on Destiny Islands, stand and wait around for Sora? I train baldy."

My point is that most of KH's story forced the female characters out of the story because they were props for other characters' stories and/or used to advance the main plot. Once Nomura had no need for them, he trapped Aqua in the Realm of Darkness (to explain her absence), erased Xion (to explain her absence), and "combined" Namine (to complete Kairi). Axel literally dies, but is promptly returned into action. It's not fair that the main female characters get treated that way, compared to the guys. KH3D was the ONE TIME that there wasn't any story/logical reason to deny Kairi. All Nomura had to say in coded or in 3D was that Kairi was getting trained in the timeless forest, so that it would be believable that she could save everyone from the Norts. And honestly for me, even if they didn't say "Kairi was training" or gave any indication that she was training, I would have bought her jumping in and saving them all. It's KH, power levels don't really exist. Sora beats Darkside with no experience. Riku was a beast in KH1 just because of "darkness", as he obviously didn't get to train fighting the heartless and was probably a litle higher skill level than when he left Destiny Islands. Why couldn't Kairi be an amazing fighter "because of light"?
 

Foxycian

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I love the UX characters but the girls are hardly any better than the ones from the console games. Of these four, you could only really say Ava is well involved. Invi did fuck all in KHX and was hardly any better in Back Cover, Skuld has been reduced to being Ven's babysitter, and Strelitzia just died to drive the story and provide angst.
Well true but Invi is still important and is tied with Ira Gula and Aced as characters that are important in the story, but ofc those 3 are not seen as important as MoM Ava and Luxu

Lmao baby sitter? they are friends! Is every girl with Ven gonna be seen as sister/babysitter/mother to him in your everyone eyes😂 but I see your point tho still she is important as a character in Union x And has a role as subject X and could be given more later on

Strilitzia is a hard case, despite being killed she still maintains to be relevant in the story.
 
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Cumguardian69

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^ stop with this "BuT thEy ArE imPOrtAnT" crap please for love of all that is holy. Story "importance" as a macguffin, plot device, primordial force is not cause for a character to have no character and no screentime worth a toss in the wind.

Skuld doesnt do anything on screen. Invi doesnt do anything on screen. Strel doesnt do anything on screen. So on and so forth.
 

Foxycian

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^ stop with this "BuT thEy ArE imPOrtAnT" crap please for love of all that is holy. Story "importance" as a macguffin, plot device, primordial force is not cause for a character to have no character and no screentime worth a toss in the wind.

Skuld doesnt do anything on screen. Invi doesnt do anything on screen. Strel doesnt do anything on screen. So on and so forth.
Hmm maybe not as relevant as I thought maybe I overhyped some of them however let me break my point for you

Ava I don’t really need to explain

Invi a foreteller and has a role in the story since MoM picked her

Skuld and strilitzia are also were chosen by MoM as being part of his plan and the story

I know the relevance is not strong but at least it’s something, but yea now that I rethink it it’s mostly Ava that’s relevant and maybe Skuld to some extent since she is union leader and subject X.
 

AdrianXXII

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I know that she's not playable in "her game", but MoM is clearly just a rhythm game with story elements in it. I think the important thing is that the story elements are hers. I mean in a game like MoM where there is very little difference in the teams you use besides aesthetics, would it really matter?

I think it's a move in the right direction to have the very first game to kick off post-KH3 to focus on Kairi. I wish Namine was involved, but we don't know yet. I will definitely be upset if Namine or Xion isn't involved with going into Kairi's memories or whatever they're doing, because those two are very good candidates to be involved. Although, I wouldn't dismiss Ansem The Wise because if he ruled Radiant Garden while Kairi was a child, maybe there is some connection that we don't know? Possibly the link between Subject X and Kairi?
Yeah, it kind of does. The fact that it makes very little difference in how you play, makes it even worse that they opted to exclude her once more.

Even if there's a connection between Ansem The Wise, Kairi and Subject X, he really isn't needed. Naminé could have revealed most, if not all, the information he might. After all she can effect the memories of those connected to Sora and by now I'd say Ansem is.

Sending someone with no combat training right into the enemy stronghold where two competent Keyblade wielders were just bodied is such a bad idea.
You are right, but that wouldn't stop the character from going. She's voiced many times in the games being tired of standing on the sidelines, so it would make sense for her to come. Besides she has light based powers and was at the final fight in KH2.

And like Face My Fears said they could have given a throwaway line like "Kairi! You're back from training!" to handwave away why she can help, would also explain her absence at the tower.

But I they wanted to save her for the secret cutscene and have her being one of the 7 be this big mic drop/hype generating moment.
 

Sign

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Hmm maybe not as relevant as I thought maybe I overhyped some of them however let me break my point for you

Ava I don’t really need to explain

Invi a foreteller and has a role in the story since MoM picked her

Skuld and strilitzia are also were chosen by MoM as being part of his plan and the story

I know the relevance is not strong but at least it’s something, but yea now that I rethink it it’s mostly Ava that’s relevant and maybe Skuld to some extent since she is union leader and subject X.
Skuld has contributed next to nothing as Union leader. While the boys are off planning for the future, trying to uncover some scheme or searching for their dead sister, she's just hanging out with Ven. When they have group meetings, she doesn't share anything worthwhile and just expresses generic sad or concerned comments.

Regardless of what her role is, it doesn't change the fact that she is far less involved in the plot than the boys, and that's a real shame.

Likewise goes for Invi and the others. Just having an important role is not enough to be deemed a good character. They need to actually be proactive and contribute something of value.

Yeah, it kind of does. The fact that it makes very little difference in how you play, makes it even worse that they opted to exclude her once more.

Even if there's a connection between Ansem The Wise, Kairi and Subject X, he really isn't needed. Naminé could have revealed most, if not all, the information he might. After all she can effect the memories of those connected to Sora and by now I'd say Ansem is.


You are right, but that wouldn't stop the character from going. She's voiced many times in the games being tired of standing on the sidelines, so it would make sense for her to come. Besides she has light based powers and was at the final fight in KH2.

And like Face My Fears said they could have given a throwaway line like "Kairi! You're back from training!" to handwave away why she can help, would also explain her absence at the tower.

But I they wanted to save her for the secret cutscene and have her being one of the 7 be this big mic drop/hype generating moment.
Light-based powers she hadn't learned how to harness yet, and training that didn't begin until after the game???

Like I'm not disagreeing that Kairi should have been involved somehow in 3D, I just think this scenario Face My Fears proposed ain't it.
 
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