• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Kairi: The Thread



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

BassDS

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
31
Awards
2
...but she's not even playable in "her" game. And we've seen nothing indicating that Naminé will be involved despite her having a perfect reason to. Instead we get AtW and co. I'm really hoping I'm wrong, and I'll still enjoy the gameplay but this is highly likely to be another missed opportunity to give at least some of the female characters better treatment.
Nomura has already stated he doesn't consider MoM Kairi's game as she's not playable in any capacity; it's most likely going to be the 20th anniversary title.
 

BassDS

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
31
Awards
2
•Don't quote remind scenario as proof or facts that Kairi is capable. They rewrote her character to give her bullshit hax powers that were totally unexplained (see her vs Xemnas, the discrepancy between NPC Kairi and Playable Kairi, etc).

•That had to be a replica xehanort bc the "real" Xehanort was fighting Past Sora around that time.

•Kairi doing things is unrealistic due to her character. She is written as feisty but without the true gumption to act on it (see KH1 where Sora tells her its too dangerous for her to come along lmao). Her body type is frail af (compare her posture to Aqua's. Bro Aqua has hips for days, is quite tall, and is muscular). She aint a fighter period.

•She isnt even playable in "her game" lmfaoooooo
Bullshit hax powers?

You CLEARLY have not seen Yusei, Yuma and Yuya just whip new turn changing cards out of thin air.

Also, as I mentioned to someone else, Nomura stated in a recent interview that he doesn't consider MoM Kairi's game as it isn't a full proper gameplay debut, though Re:MIND has laid the groundwork for it since there's no way they're abandoning UE4 at any point in the near future.
 

KeyToDestiny

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
272
Awards
3
Nomura has already stated he doesn't consider MoM Kairi's game as she's not playable in any capacity; it's most likely going to be the 20th anniversary title.
20th anniversary title is more likely to be focused on Yozora since he's the future of KH and clearly have more of Nomura's interest than Kairi does.
 

BassDS

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
31
Awards
2
20th anniversary title is more likely to be focused on Yozora since he's the future of KH and clearly have more of Nomura's interest than Kairi does.
We know nothing of his plans for Yozora right now, so that's not very likely; and besides, we've three separate teams working on the series, so it's not out of the real of possibility that we get the next bridge game into IV involving Kairi and likely Riku, while another game focuses on whatever crazy plans has for Verum Rex, and honestly, I HIGHLY doubt Yozora is the future of the series, not when Sora is still the prime defacto protagonist.
 

pastel.goblin

Active member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
167
Awards
4
Location
Australia
Nomura has already stated he doesn't consider MoM Kairi's game as she's not playable in any capacity; it's most likely going to be the 20th anniversary title.
Hence the quotation marks. I was replying to Face My Fears referring to it as her game.
 

KeyToDestiny

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
272
Awards
3
We know nothing of his plans for Yozora right now, so that's not very likely; and besides, we've three separate teams working on the series, so it's not out of the real of possibility that we get the next bridge game into IV involving Kairi and likely Riku, while another game focuses on whatever crazy plans has for Verum Rex, and honestly, I HIGHLY doubt Yozora is the future of the series, not when Sora is still the prime defacto protagonist.
Your argument makes zero sense. Nomura has said many times over how important Yozora is for the future of KH. He's more important for it than Kairi will and that's just a fact. I know you guys want this mystical Kairi game but it's just not going to happen. MoM is the best you get and even if she isn't playable she's still a strong focus there. At the very most, she'll probably be playable again in the future but not getting a game focused on her.
 

BassDS

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
31
Awards
2
Your argument makes zero sense. Nomura has said many times over how important Yozora is for the future of KH. He's more important for it than Kairi will and that's just a fact. I know you guys want this mystical Kairi game but it's just not going to happen. MoM is the best you get and even if she isn't playable she's still a strong focus there. At the very most, she'll probably be playable again in the future but not getting a game focused on her.
Even if he is, it still doesn't detract that he's setting her up to take a big step in moving the plot forward and truly begin her arc throughout the saga, just as the Dark Seeker saga held Riku's own arc and ended with him getting side billing in DDD and bringing his personal quest for redemption to a close, so with that in mind, I wouldn't write Kairi's chance at playing her part. Sorry, but that's just pessimistic thinking right there.

She has just as much chance as Yozora does to make a difference in the series going forward.
 

SweetYetSalty

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
2,169
Awards
12
Age
34
I don't really see Kairi as a fighter either. I always thought--if they did anything with her--she'd be better as a mage type even if she still had a Keyblade, too. Someone with strong holy and healing magic. The funny thing is the only time we've ever seen the PoH's use their powers is in KH1--Kairi holding off Destiny Islands' fall and the princesses protecting the worlds by holding back a portion of the darkness from HB's Keyhole. I don't know why Nomura or whoever does the world scenarios don't utilize these powers both in the gameplay (the PoHs using powers similar to Minnie as party members) or in the story. Hypothetical examples of the latter would be Belle using her powers to help "wake up" Beast instead of Cogsworth in 2, Jasmine limiting Jafar's powers during your battle with him in 2, Kairi using her powers....any time she's been onscreen post-1. Perhaps they could have written that she used her PoH powers to give Riku back his real form instead of letting DiZ's machine explosion do it... That was always a bizarre solution to me.
So far they made most of the girls mage style. In the Guardian of Light segment, the guys are mashing their Keyblades to max attack while the girls and Mickey use Reflega magic. I'm not saying Kairi has to be this, but a bruiser style female warrior would actually be a nice change of pace. And this isn't a knock on mages either. Reflega makes the girls somewhat OP without a MP bar, lol.

That said, I like your idea of using the PoH's powers in gameplay idea. Missed opportunity, as I really loved how they used Minnie in KH2 when she teamed up with Sora. She wasn't a fighter but was really powerful with those light spells. And using light to help in situations that can't be solves with swinging a Keyblade around. I would have preferred Kairi had gone down that path more, because it would have been unique for a main character. I'm overall fine with her being a Keyblade fighter, but at times, she just feels like a Xion reskin, who also uses light with the Keyblade.
 

2 quid is good

Driving around Quadratum in a Toyota
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
1,109
Awards
17
Location
airbourne
You CLEARLY have not seen Yusei, Yuma and Yuya just whip new turn changing cards out of thin air
Yusei doesn't have bullshit powers, he's just a filthy topdecker, and as for accel/limit over accel synchro, that's a power that was established in universe and that he had to work to achieve. The other two, yeah, point stands I guess, but Yugi will always have a far greater amount of ass pulls than any protagonist
 

Foxycian

Active member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
881
Awards
3
So far they made most of the girls mage style. In the Guardian of Light segment, the guys are mashing their Keyblades to max attack while the girls and Mickey use Reflega magic. I'm not saying Kairi has to be this, but a bruiser style female warrior would actually be a nice change of pace. And this isn't a knock on mages either. Reflega makes the girls somewhat OP without a MP bar, lol.
Well I think Laraxene Ava and Skuld are not part of the “female character is always a Mage” stereotype

Laraxen uses lightning but she is an assassin type she uses her knives and Speed as much as her lightning

Ava uses clones of herself and uses all those clones to attack with their keyblade instead of casting magic (hopefully stays that way and not turn her into another mage type) Ava feels like she relies more on her speed

Skuld no information but so far no one mentioned that she is a great mage at least from what I remember,

Meanwhile Girls that are known for being a mage are
Kairi
Aqua
Xion
invi
Urd (still not much known about her abilities yet)
Vor
Namine (she never casted magic but she seem fragile so probably mage)

As for strilitzia we know She is a great mage seeing as Her brother confirmed it.
 

rokudamia2

Dream eater ally.
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
3,753
Awards
5
Age
31
To be honest I could absolutely see this being it for kairi. Large portions of Re:mind seemed to have been put in due to fan backlash. Explorable Scala,playing as other characters during the Keyblade Graveyard fights, the explination as to why Aqua froze up,, them explaining how Xion came back, sora using the kh2 world unlocked animation ,and yes playable kairi. I wouldn't be shocked if Nomura thinks giving her prominence in one game is good enough.
 

SweetYetSalty

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
2,169
Awards
12
Age
34
Well I think Laraxene Ava and Skuld are not part of the “female character is always a Mage” stereotype

Laraxen uses lightning but she is an assassin type she uses her knives and Speed as much as her lightning

Ava uses clones of herself and uses all those clones to attack with their keyblade instead of casting magic (hopefully stays that way and not turn her into another mage type) Ava feels like she relies more on her speed

Skuld no information but so far no one mentioned that she is a great mage at least from what I remember,

Meanwhile Girls that are known for being a mage are
Kairi
Aqua
Xion
invi
Urd (still not much known about her abilities yet)
Vor
Namine (she never casted magic but she seem fragile so probably mage)

As for strilitzia we know She is a great mage seeing as Her brother confirmed it.
I should have clarified this. I meant the playable and party member main girls usually lean more towards mage. And again, nothing wrong with that.

I don't really count Larxene as a main character, but it should be noted she's the magic tutorial guide in 358/2 Days :p but if you want to count her very limited time as a party member, she's more of a speed fighter, so that does count as less of a mage.

I cannot comment on Ava and Skuld. I've never seen either fight, and that goes for all the mobile game girls, but Ava sounds like a Larxene fighter ironically, with the clones. I don't know if the Union X characters are going to be in the present time, but Ava and Invi should be interesting to see in battle.

Primarily I was mainly talking about how Kairi, Aqua, and Xion are more magic based, at least when you play as them or have them in your party. From a storyline stance it makes sense, as none of them are bulky brutes , especially the Kairis. They are naturally very small, so it makes sense their power is more focused on magic combat rather then physical strength such is with a Terra, Roxas, or Riku.

But there is some balance, since they have physical power moves too. Aqua has some really strong Keyblade combos in her fighting moves, and Xion is a copycat and can copy physical powerhouses like Saix. But when not copying she falls more in line with a mage fighter, and most of Aqua's best moves are magic oriented. Then there is Kairi who's moves all look like magic hits fused into physical strikes.

Mages are cool, I have no issue with how the female cast we have right now fight. But for the future it would be cool to see a physical powerhouse female. Let's say one who's just as powerful as Terra. Would make for a interesting moveset wouldn't it? Hey maybe that will be Skuld?
 
Last edited:

Foxycian

Active member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
881
Awards
3
I should have clarified this. I meant the playable and party member main girls usually lean more towards mage. And again, nothing wrong with that.

I don't really count Larxene as a main character, but it should be noted she's the magic tutorial guide in 358/2 Days :p but if you want to count her very limited time as a party member, she's more of a speed fighter, so that does count as less of a mage.

I cannot comment on Ava and Skuld. I've never seen either fight, and that goes for all the mobile game girls, but Ava sounds like a Larxene fighter ironically, with the clones. I don't know if the Union X characters are going to be in the present time, but Ava and Invi should be interesting to see in battle.

Primarily I was mainly talking about how Kairi, Aqua, and Xion are more magic based, at least when you play as them or have them in your party. From a storyline stance it makes sense, as none of them are bulky brutes , especially the Kairis. They are naturally very small, so it makes sense their power is more focused on magic combat rather then physical strength such is with a Terra, Roxas, or Riku.

But there is some balance, since they have physical power moves too. Aqua has some really strong Keyblade combos in her fighting moves, and Xion is a copycat and can copy physical powerhouses like Saix. But when not copying she falls more in line with a mage fighter, and most of Aqua's best moves are magic oriented. Then there is Kairi who's moves all look like magic hits fused into physical strikes.

Mages are cool, I have no issue with how the female cast we have right now fight. But for the future it would be cool to see a physical powerhouse female. Let's say one who's just as powerful as Terra. Would make for a interesting moveset wouldn't it? Hey maybe that will be Skuld?
Yea true nothing wrong with females being mages (even tho I want to see less of that stereotype and more new stuff) I really like How Xion is basically a Mime class like in final fantasy which is same class as Bartz the main character of ff5, can copy all attacks, and yea even tho aqua is mostly a mage she is still more of a warrior mage type instead of your average mage/healer, guess only Kairi and Namine fall into the category of healer/mage/support.
 

2 quid is good

Driving around Quadratum in a Toyota
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
1,109
Awards
17
Location
airbourne
To be honest I could absolutely see this being it for kairi. Large portions of Re:mind seemed to have been put in due to fan backlash. Explorable Scala,playing as other characters during the Keyblade Graveyard fights, the explination as to why Aqua froze up,, them explaining how Xion came back, sora using the kh2 world unlocked animation ,and yes playable kairi. I wouldn't be shocked if Nomura thinks giving her prominence in one game is good enough.
Yeah, I'm inclined to feel this way too, but who knows?
 

OrionGold

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
67
Awards
2
I should have clarified this. I meant the playable and party member main girls usually lean more towards mage. And again, nothing wrong with that.

I don't really count Larxene as a main character, but it should be noted she's the magic tutorial guide in 358/2 Days :p but if you want to count her very limited time as a party member, she's more of a speed fighter, so that does count as less of a mage.

I cannot comment on Ava and Skuld. I've never seen either fight, and that goes for all the mobile game girls, but Ava sounds like a Larxene fighter ironically, with the clones. I don't know if the Union X characters are going to be in the present time, but Ava and Invi should be interesting to see in battle.

Primarily I was mainly talking about how Kairi, Aqua, and Xion are more magic based, at least when you play as them or have them in your party. From a storyline stance it makes sense, as none of them are bulky brutes , especially the Kairis. They are naturally very small, so it makes sense their power is more focused on magic combat rather then physical strength such is with a Terra, Roxas, or Riku.

But there is some balance, since they have physical power moves too. Aqua has some really strong Keyblade combos in her fighting moves, and Xion is a copycat and can copy physical powerhouses like Saix. But when not copying she falls more in line with a mage fighter, and most of Aqua's best moves are magic oriented. Then there is Kairi who's moves all look like magic hits fused into physical strikes.

Mages are cool, I have no issue with how the female cast we have right now fight. But for the future it would be cool to see a physical powerhouse female. Let's say one who's just as powerful as Terra. Would make for a interesting moveset wouldn't it? Hey maybe that will be Skuld?
So a girly bruiser like Tifa? I'm down for that.
 

*TwilightNight*

Bronze Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
2,213
Awards
6
Age
34
Maybe it is a Japanese thing, I don't know. There's basically two archetypes of female characters in KH - motherly, kind, and pure (Aqua/Kairi) or innocent victim (Xion/Namine). Larxene is well, Larxene.

I disagree though that Nomura should just do what he does for the men for the women. I would hate for him to initially write out a male character, then just swap the gender at the end. I don't think that does justice for a well written female character.

I'm going to stand by what I said and say that I don't think Nomura is intentionally doing sexist things. The issue I think is that there aren't any (or many) female writers involved with KH. Does anyone know if there are any female writers that help with the story?

And again, you're the second or third person to suggest that if Nomura was in the West 10 years ago he would have been torn apart. I don't think so. The real movement to get better female representation in media, at least the movement becoming mainstream, was maybe 5-6 years ago.

KH isn't like a TV series where fixes can be implemented within a few episodes that will air in a month's time, so you really can't judge Nomura that harshly until you see what he does now that we know he is aware. I believe you can't expect someone to do the right thing, if they're not aware of it. Sure, it's bad that Nomura didn't know that he was writing the female characters horribly, but now that he is aware and actively trying to make changes... it's only fair to judge him from this point moving forward. So yes, judge him by KH3 - hot mess for female characters - but it was a hot mess for everyone, and Nomura even admitted how hard it was to write the story.

I know that you've been mortally wounded by Nomura's actions in past KH games, but I say the true litmus test on whether Nomura is actually changing for the better will be MoM. He doesn't have the baggage he had for KH3, so there are no excuses.

It's not a "Japanese thing". It's a middle-aged Japanese man thing. Majority of this type of ridiculous female treatment comes from them, Nomura included. And it is based on sexism. I already gave you the definition of it. There's no justification for Nomura anymore. He's a sexist.

Also, why would developing, having different personalities for the girls, and giving depth to the female characters mean that a male character has to be written off? They have absolutely no correlation whatsoever.

And honestly, considering how many male characters there are, I don't think it's going to make a dent taking one out, especially since they cast aside the limited female characters anyway. Replacing Marluxia with Larxene in KHUx affects nothing except give better treatment to the girls and less bias to anyone that sports a penis in this series. Who the hell cared that much for Repliku, or Marluxia? Barely anyone. I have no idea what you're trying to get at here.

Nomura would have gotten wrecked 8-10 years, or at least there'd be a considerable amount of his reputation hit badly. Social media has been around for a while. Just because it's more vocal and strong now doesn't mean he would have gotten off scott free. We already had people in forums and boards discussing Kairi and other unfair facets concerning the female cast. Imagine that in a greater spectrum. It existed.

It's been 20 years or so Nomura has had to "fix" things, come on now. That's enough time to get a freaking grip. Not only in terms of female characters but in the story/narrative. If MoM doesn't work out the way you seem to think it will, what, we're gonna have to wait two more years? It's sad that you need female writers to get better written females when you don't need to have the same for the opposite. Female writers have done both male and female characters justice. Might as well just say these men are incapable and lack talent in basic writing.
 

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
5,388
Awards
19
It's not a "Japanese thing". It's a middle-aged Japanese man thing. Majority of this type of ridiculous female treatment comes from them, Nomura included. And it is based on sexism. I already gave you the definition of it. There's no justification for Nomura anymore. He's a sexist.

Also, why would developing, having different personalities for the girls, and giving depth to the female characters mean that a male character has to be written off? They have absolutely no correlation whatsoever.

And honestly, considering how many male characters there are, I don't think it's going to make a dent taking one out, especially since they cast aside the limited female characters anyway. Replacing Marluxia with Larxene in KHUx affects nothing except give better treatment to the girls and less bias to anyone that sports a penis in this series. Who the hell cared that much for Repliku, or Marluxia? Barely anyone. I have no idea what you're trying to get at here.

Nomura would have gotten wrecked 8-10 years, or at least there'd be a considerable amount of his reputation hit badly. Social media has been around for a while. Just because it's more vocal and strong now doesn't mean he would have gotten off scott free. We already had people in forums and boards discussing Kairi and other unfair facets concerning the female cast. Imagine that in a greater spectrum. It existed.

It's been 20 years or so Nomura has had to "fix" things, come on now. That's enough time to get a freaking grip. Not only in terms of female characters but in the story/narrative. If MoM doesn't work out the way you seem to think it will, what, we're gonna have to wait two more years? It's sad that you need female writers to get better written females when you don't need to have the same for the opposite. Female writers have done both male and female characters justice. Might as well just say these men are incapable and lack talent in basic writing.
I meant "write out a male character" as in Nomura starts writing a male character conceptually, then - to add more female characters - he just swaps the gender at the end. For example, say he wrote out conceptually everything about Roxas, then just swapped genders at the end and ultimately made Roxas female. I think that's a disservice to writing a female character because it's not really writing a female character, and if that's how someone has to approach writing female characters, then I don't think that's right.

I was advocating for more female writers to be a part of the creative process of KH. I'd rather have different voices in the room and able to explore the story in ways that maybe the usual writers don't think about. From what I can tell, the KH creative process is mostly, if not all, men. I think it's important to diversify the creative process of a project.

And KH3's release was a huge moment on social media. Idiot YouTubers/influencers that knew nothing about the series were hopping on board to rush videos on release date to get clicks. In the game where Kairi literally gets killed, there wasn't an uproar to cancel Nomura or KH. Maybe that's a testament to the KH community's sensibility (since I hate "cancel culture") or maybe it's evidence that the KH community was fed up/expected Kairi to be treated like trash anyway, so didn't bother complain.
 

Cumguardian69

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
670
Awards
2
^ no, fundMentally there isnt a real difference between a good female and a good male character. See Lightning "Claire" Farron who, as Toriyama's tulpa, is such a decent character that her most common complaints are that she is "overly stoic to the point of boring" and "female Cloud". I.E, character traits do not matter for male/female insofar as that character is developed FIRST and the gender is applied second.

Yes, that means if Light was somehow created before Cloud, that Cloud would be referred to as genderbent Lightning.

That also means that writing out "Roxas" but turning him->her into "Roxannas" would be creating a female character, not a male-turned-female.

Imagine if Sora's Nobody was a girl. Imagine that.

How does all of this relate? Simple. Kairi is not bad because she has a vagina instead of a penis. She's bad because her character fucken sucks. Aqua is the better Kairi.
 

Foxycian

Active member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
881
Awards
3
Aqua is the better Kairi.
They are both equally bland let’s be honest with ourselves here... if anyone is a better Kairi then it’s Ava, she has everything

A cool design
A personality
A relevance in the story
A unique fighting style instead of the same cliche that the female is always a Great Mage.
 
Back
Top