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Kairi: The Thread



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Sign

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Popular female characters always receive a backlash from a subset. I was more shocked about Xion being in the top 5 combined list...
Characters like Xion are designed to be perform well especially with the Japanese fanbase. Everything from her appearance to her involvement in the story and characters falls perfectly in line with standard otome game tropes.
 

May-Jor

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It isn't surprising Aqua is so popular, she's one of few "waifu-able" characters in the cast who was given a lot of screen time and attention.

Characters like Xion are designed to be perform well especially with the Japanese fanbase. Everything from her appearance to her involvement in the story and characters falls perfectly in line with standard otome game tropes.

I know a lot of yumes like their simple, dark-haired self-inserts, and I do believe she was kinda retconned into the story, but other than that I can't really see her fitting into many otome tropes. Could you elaborate a bit on that?
 

*TwilightNight*

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Characters like Xion are designed to be perform well especially with the Japanese fanbase. Everything from her appearance to her involvement in the story and characters falls perfectly in line with standard otome game tropes.

Dude, Xion got everything handed to her on a silver platter with a diamond crusted gold spoon. She's the epitome of a self-insert in every way imaginable, because she is Kanemaki's self insert.

And that still got her only 26 votes ahead of Kairi. Kairi.
 

Elysium

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That makes sense, @Sign. I guess I'm not really surprised by Aqua being so far ahead since I've always felt she and Xion are the only objectively good female heroes this series really has... I mean, I'm not trying to knock the others (I happen to like Namine very much), it just is what it is in my eyes. Namine really only undoes the damage she caused herself and then gets put on a shelf for the rest of the series. Xion is the only other one who was given a lot of onscreen time and who was an active character in her own storyline to give Aqua a run for her money. And Aqua has the fact that she's the only playable female character to give her an edge, too. (The fact that she doesn't act meek, teary, and submissive or conciliatory the majority of the time may also play a role... Just another thought.)

This isn't a knock here, but: I don't really consider Sora a dynamic character... I mean, in the sense that he expresses a full range of emotions regularly, yes, but as far as being developed and/or having an arc, no. The most he ever had one was in KH1, when he became more confident as the game went along and stepped out of Riku's shadow. Like Lea, I think his personality has been flanderized starting with KH2. I still enjoy the character (he's cute and Osment makes him fun) and I want him to remain the central protagonist always. I mean, the main character needs to remain mostly the same for the sake of the player / viewer in a long-running series anyway, imo. Riku isn't as expressive as Sora when dealing with random Disney characters, but I don't see him as being flatter than Sora. I understand that he was a bit boring in 3, but I blame that on him getting nothing much to do (like everyone else). I'm not too worried about his place in the series though. To me, it looks like he's going to be at the center of all the XV stuff Nomura will shoehorn into KH, considering the Noctis-esque makeover, and we already know he'll be involved with whatever happens between Yozora and Sora going off the Secret Ending.
 

*TwilightNight*

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That makes sense, @Sign. I guess I'm not really surprised by Aqua being so far ahead since I've always felt she and Xion are the only objectively good female heroes this series really has... I mean, I'm not trying to knock the others (I happen to like Namine very much), it just is what it is in my eyes. Namine really only undoes the damage she caused herself and then gets put on a shelf for the rest of the series. Xion is the only other one who was given a lot of onscreen time and who was an active character in her own storyline to give Aqua a run for her money. And Aqua has the fact that she's the only playable female character to give her an edge, too. (The fact that she doesn't act meek, teary, and submissive or conciliatory the majority of the time may also play a role... Just another thought.)

I'm curious then, on your opinion about Xion being only 26 votes ahead of Kairi, who is considered the objectively bad female character of the series.

With the reasoning placed forth, she should technically be ranked lower.
 

rokudamia2

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I'm not surprised but still kinda sad larxene got only 10 votes and Olette only got 6 votes.

That said it's hilarious how both Tifa and Maleficent outranked khux girls and Ava barely beat Yuffie.
 
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Face My Fears

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Don't underestimate the power of jiggle physics
Why do you think that just because Aqua is a female that male players immediately love her, regardless of her character? Why is that logic not applied to all the other KH girls? A better question is why is that even logic that is used?

I've never seen Aqua's design (officially) exploited in a sexual manner that would garner these supposed "easy votes" due to "jiggle physics".
i guess I need to fill you on Everything Face My Fears... first of Ventus past is not a retcon (0.2 is the retcon for forcing Aqua into the story of Kh1 and make us want to believe that she was always there but we didn’t know, also master defender keyblade being on destiny island all this time and we didn’t see it? seriously? 0.2 was fun but an obvious retcon) OK listen, I said it Before that I didn’t like Ven being from Union X, I even made a topic about it that Ventus being from Union X is retcon, but people corrected me quick telling me it’s not a retcon and Im not using the word retcon properly

His past is not a retcon because for 5 obvious reasons

1. we never knew where he came from

2. Xehanort in report 9 say that it was destiny that allowed him and Ventus to meet

3. Ventus station of awakening had no faces just a picture of the keyblade graveyard, soo many mysterious surrounding him

4. Rise of the Union (a very important well known Theme in Union X) this theme was used on Ventus the most in BBS and when he saved Sora in DDD

5. Upon his final fight with vanitas, vanitas said our “Union” was not finished, soo many hints and details

I’m not saying Nomura planned this from the start but Ventus being from Union X was believable with all those hints, soo many things about him was a mystery.

again being from Union X doesn’t mean you will be relevant, Laraxene doesn’t seem to be that important if anything she will be just Marluxia right hand man and always next to him, and brain is most likely dead cause he is the ancestor of Eraqus, Union X is part of phase 1 and 2 it’s connected to both sagas, most of the old characters will play a new role in this new saga you don’t need to have a connection to Union X to be important.
Thank you for the elucidation. I was well aware of Ven's mysterious past, which is why admittedly he was perfect to be thrown into the KHUX past and connected with "Darkness" and everything else that is unfolding back then.

I initially didn't like it, but it made sense to me so I actually kind of did like it. My issue is the whole concept (that everyone gleefully cheers) of writing out characters - especially directed towards Roxas, Xion, Namine, and Kairi. I don't expect nor do I want every character to be in every game, like how KH3 was, because that will be a huge mess. What I do want is for all the characters to actually be used WELL. For example, if Xion and Namine appear in MoM and play a major role with Kairi to save Sora, then don't appear in the next game - cool. But I don't want them to vanish forever, limited to only cameos in the ending cutscene. My animosity towards Ven is really because people constantly shove in my face that Ven will take Roxas' place (because of importance from KHUX), and Roxas/Xion/Namine are the number one contenders to be written off for good: all of my top favourite characters.
 

Foxycian

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Why do you think that just because Aqua is a female that male players immediately love her, regardless of her character? Why is that logic not applied to all the other KH girls? A better question is why is that even logic that is used?

I've never seen Aqua's design (officially) exploited in a sexual manner that would garner these supposed "easy votes" due to "jiggle physics".

Thank you for the elucidation. I was well aware of Ven's mysterious past, which is why admittedly he was perfect to be thrown into the KHUX past and connected with "Darkness" and everything else that is unfolding back then.

I initially didn't like it, but it made sense to me so I actually kind of did like it. My issue is the whole concept (that everyone gleefully cheers) of writing out characters - especially directed towards Roxas, Xion, Namine, and Kairi. I don't expect nor do I want every character to be in every game, like how KH3 was, because that will be a huge mess. What I do want is for all the characters to actually be used WELL. For example, if Xion and Namine appear in MoM and play a major role with Kairi to save Sora, then don't appear in the next game - cool. But I don't want them to vanish forever, limited to only cameos in the ending cutscene. My animosity towards Ven is really because people constantly shove in my face that Ven will take Roxas' place (because of importance from KHUX), and Roxas/Xion/Namine are the number one contenders to be written off for good: all of my top favourite characters.
Well I understand your pain, Ventus/Roxas are my favorite characters and soo far they are shoved into the side lines, Roxas story ended in kh2 never to be seen or be playable again other then appearing in few cutscenes, Ventus story started in BBS (originally Union X if we talking about his past) but nowadays every time he shows up his just in cutscene, I honestly don’t like this, Nomura treating Ventus as an important figure but only shows him in cutscenes but doesn’t make me play him, that’s why i didn’t like how bbs trio in MoM has Ventus as just party member when his a protagonist as well, also “Face My Fears” Roxas is more popular then Ventus I highly doubt Ventus will outshine him in popularity, Roxas will have his moments, those two characters are usually seen as one character sharing 50/50 of screen time, in kh3 Ventus got More screen time but in gameplay you only play with Roxas, see even tho Roxas story arc relevance has ended He still will play a part wether it’s gameplay or be given a new role, as for Xion she has the potential to be her own person and get involved in the future at least in my opinion.
 

Face My Fears

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Well I understand your pain, Ventus/Roxas are my favorite characters and soo far they are shoved into the side lines, Roxas story ended in kh2 never to be seen or be playable again other then appearing in few cutscenes, Ventus story started in BBS (originally Union X if we talking about his past) but nowadays every time he shows up his just in cutscene, I honestly don’t like this, Nomura treating Ventus as an important figure but only shows him in cutscenes but doesn’t make me play him, that’s why i didn’t like how bbs trio in MoM has Ventus as just party member when his a protagonist as well, also “Face My Fears” Roxas is more popular then Ventus I highly doubt Ventus will outshine him in popularity, Roxas will have his moments, those two characters are usually seen as one character sharing 50/50 of screen time, in kh3 Ventus got More screen time but in gameplay you only play with Roxas, see even tho Roxas story arc relevance has ended He still will play a part wether it’s gameplay or be given a new role, as for Xion she has the potential to be her own person and get involved in the future at least in my opinion.
I mean being used in cutscenes is at least something. Although Ven said barely anything in KH3.

That's why I would like for characters to be selected for each game for a reason and actually be used well. I think MoM naturally lends itself to being a "Kairi game" because of the events of ReMIND. I would have also thrown in Xion/Namine to help, since they both are connected to Sora and have some relation to memories. If there's a sidegame that deals with the Foretellers, maybe Ven can take the lead there because he has more relation than Terra/Aqua.
 

Foxycian

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I mean being used in cutscenes is at least something. Although Ven said barely anything in KH3.

That's why I would like for characters to be selected for each game for a reason and actually be used well. I think MoM naturally lends itself to being a "Kairi game" because of the events of ReMIND. I would have also thrown in Xion/Namine to help, since they both are connected to Sora and have some relation to memories. If there's a sidegame that deals with the Foretellers, maybe Ven can take the lead there because he has more relation than Terra/Aqua.
Actually that’s why I like to see more Ventus screen time, cause Roxas is tied with Ventus (i guess Sora and Ephamer too) as my favorite character But because I’m aware Roxas no longer has any relevance in the story (unless they give him new one) is the reason why I appreciate Ventus being involved just so I can see Roxas face appear more in games other then being sidelined the whole game, not sure about you but I view Roxas and Ven as a one character tbh that’s why I like seeing one of them getting more focus instead of both getting sideline with no role whatsoever

Roxas surely will be play a role (even if he wasn’t given a new role) because of his popularity but Nomura does not want to milk him or force him into stuff just cause he is popular so he will be careful with using him I suppose

Edit: I hope the series treats the characters fairly from now on, even in the future.
 
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May-Jor

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Why do you think that just because Aqua is a female that male players immediately love her, regardless of her character? Why is that logic not applied to all the other KH girls? A better question is why is that even logic that is used?

I've never seen Aqua's design (officially) exploited in a sexual manner that would garner these supposed "easy votes" due to "jiggle physics".

It's less "jiggle physics" and more of what I mentioned earlier. Fandoms love to fawn over and/or lewd pretty female characters, and in KH the pickings are very slim. Most of the girls are young or aren't very interesting or relevant.
 

Face My Fears

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Actually that’s why I like to see more Ventus screen time, cause Roxas is tied with Ven as my favorite character But because I’m aware Roxas no longer has any relevance in the story (unless they give him new one) is the reason why I appreciate Ventus being involved just so I can see Roxas face appear more in games other then being sidelined the whole game, not sure about you but I view Roxas and Ven as a one character tbh that’s why I like seeing one of them getting more focus instead of both getting sideline with no role whatsoever

Roxas surely will be play a role (even if he wasn’t given a new role) because of his popularity but Nomura does not want to milk him or force him into stuff just cause he is popular so he will be careful with using him I suppose.
Well Nomura milked Roxas' popularity by forcing him to return in KH3. I definitely do not see Roxas and Ven as the same character. I won't go into it because it will probably sound like Ven bashing, but I just see Roxas as having a complete story arc. Ven's own is still happening, I guess.
It's less "jiggle physics" and more of what I mentioned earlier. Fandoms love to fawn over and/or lewd pretty female characters, and in KH the pickings are very slim. Most of the girls are young or aren't very interesting or relevant.
"Pickings are very slim" isn't really the best way to put it for the female characters in KH. With the exception of Xion and Namine, who are both about a year old (although presents as a 15 year old girl), all the KH girls are at least 15. Aqua is approximately 18 years old. Namine in CoM/KH2 is really interesting and relevant. Maybe I'm not the best judge of what the fandom deems as a fawn worthy female character, but I don't drool over any of the characters in KH because of their looks.

I think the reason why Aqua ranked so high is because she was the only playable one. Notice how Xion ranked second. I think the ranking and voting had more to do with the characters' storyline and what they did. Aqua and Xion did a lot of fighting and had lots of development. All the guys that were voted at the top were playable as well, minus Axel whose characterization in CoM/KH2 had ingrained him as a fan favourite, even though his characterization drastically changed after KH2.
 

Sign

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Dude, Xion got everything handed to her on a silver platter with a diamond crusted gold spoon. She's the epitome of a self-insert in every way imaginable, because she is Kanemaki's self insert.

And that still got her only 26 votes ahead of Kairi. Kairi.

Yeah, that falls in line with fans of hers even in the west, doesn't it? Very loud and passionate but not quite as numerous as they appear to be.
 

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No.i deleted mt.comment

The Queens Fool vy Phillipa Gregory. The MC is written as a character affexted by outside circumstances but HER outcome is decided by HER. She is autonomous more than she determinea her worth on other characters. This fact is supported by her consignimg herself to HER fate, not fate itself. Kairi is not like this.

Perhaps an AU version of Kairi could have been like this given by 2005/2006 KH2 - now I will step forward to realize this wish. And who knows?

•But even so we shall examine the Lairi of 2009 (BBs, young) - fearful.and barely on screen, whem she is.she is.scared and hiding beyind the aqua qand mickel. While this is understandabkle by age, we contrast this with the similarly aged Young Riku qne So4a, 2ho are shown to be act8vely engaged with Terra and Aqua on DI. Why is this? Because i lub demure wahmen that look cute and do nothing on screen - Engoora aka Nomura

•Then in the 2011 (2014?) DDD - the kairi is literally a cameo/false teaser lmao. I brought the """guest""" you requested but you never said.why Master Yensid lmao

•Then again a fake teaser but actually in ENG she determines the role in 0.2 (Master, I CaMe HeaR beCausE I wanTed To HeeLp somEHoW. WHAT caaN i Do???) Aka just be kawaii uguu and be the trophy for the Sora lmao.

•Then we go to the KH3, where she wastes beautiful CGI in the secret forest for the aforementioned MuH LetTeR scene, and visibly does nothing the entire game. Bruh she didnt even actively fight the xion. Being on the defense is pathetical and disgraceful. Have you never decided to fight? This is jot KH2 kaiti. Remember this fact.


By not featuring a character going through trials before a supposed big fight, or by wasting literal years before re-featuring a character in a major way, any major shock or dramatic large move is going to baffle the audience. SO, when Kairi gets killed in KH3, this shocks the audience not im the sense of "I hope karty is ok.xD" but in the sense of "why would you gas her up as a Keyblade Hopeful only to do nothing but keep her as a feckin plot device". This is disgusting. Bht it gets even worse in Remind (paid Zdlc btw) where she is absent 99% of the dlc, and only appears in a retcon xemnas confrontation with bullshit prinxess of heart hacks powers (which could potentially be explained as Sora getting leveled down in universe after releasing the growths/tumors known as Roxas/Xion from his heart, and those newSomebodies being relatively refently born) that immediately gets invalidated in.the VERY SAME SCENE LMFAO, as an optional playable in armoed nort redux, then she is kawaii uguu again durimg the added ending scenes, then she is randomly literally sleep for a year? Lmao.

Then we comr to KHMOM the asset flip to keep a KH game a year promise afloat for the time being. Interviews confirm Kairi being narrator is merely a whim from Nomura. Translation imo? He is trying to appease Kairi fanbois while doing the bare minimum. Idk his relationship with Risa Uchida? But I would assume it is positive from.an.adminastrators po8nt of vire. If this is true then he did this nardator change from.chiritthy to karty to help uchida make more loney? Idk. But it is seemuntly out of left field for the kairi to gain a NARRATOR role. And then we so far havent seen her playable? The absolute state of hrrer!
 

Face My Fears

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I'm curious what MoM means for Kairi's future story arc. Going into her backstory is one thing, but her feud with Xehanort for throwing her into space looks to be resolved in MoM. Also, we know Nomura said Xehanort is done post-KH3, so she can't really do anything with him after MoM.

Maybe Kairi's dive into memories will unlock something that she remembers Ansem doing? Like a secret room in Radiant Garden? Even with Xehanort gone, I do think it will be an interesting take to have the cast go through all of his actual research. I'm hoping Kairi is the key to starting that process.
 

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Yeah, I imagine that this game will wrap up the loose ends between Kairi and Xehanort and develop her backstory a bit.

One of my hopes is that it'll also establish a connection between Kairi and Subject X or confirm that Kairi's grandmother is somehow tied to the Age of Fairy Tales or Dark Road.
Don't really care which or if any of those two things. I just want this game to set up her having a story arc or personal tie to the next Saga.
 

Face My Fears

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Yeah, I imagine that this game will wrap up the loose ends between Kairi and Xehanort and develop her backstory a bit.

One of my hopes is that it'll also establish a connection between Kairi and Subject X or confirm that Kairi's grandmother is somehow tied to the Age of Fairy Tales or Dark Road.
Don't really care which or if any of those two things. I just want this game to set up her having a story arc or personal tie to the next Saga.
With so many people being connected to the ancient past, I rather start connecting people to the Yozora side of things. I think it would be interesting if Kairi is somehow connected to the Nameless Star in The Final World. The Nameless Star seemed to be what Yozora was looking for, so I think having Kairi connected somehow would definitely get her involved with the main plot.
 
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