How was Vanitas able to make an appearance in KH 3D?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

SoraForeverKH

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
147
Location
I wish was Destiny Islands
This, to me, is one of the biggest mysteries in Dream Drop Distance. The way Sora saw a transparent Vanitas alongside the younger incarnation of Xehanort in the last scene from the hunchback World seemed so out of the blue. And why was it so important for Vanitas to help Xehanort give that message to Sora?
Young Xehanort and Vanitas quote: "Even if you are not the prisoner."
That was definitely vital information for Sora to know, but it was a really rough way for him to be told about it.
The way Sora is inside and how he feels about others, just imagine how hard it was for him to hear from two mysterious figures that his heart is actually a prison.
Sora's response afterwards by quote: "My heart's a prison?"


It really isn't very difficult to understand what the two from the Darkness meant when they said it that way, but what made Vanitas show up all of a sudden?
The last time we saw Vanitas he was disappearing after being shattered from the battle inside Ventus' awakening in Both By Sleep. So how is he able to make an appearance for a brief second in the Dream Realm?
Was he somehow brought back during the time when Young Xehanort traveled back in time to gather Xehanort's dark vessels? Or could it just have had something to do with being in Sora's presence who is carrying Ventus' heart within him that triggered him to reveal himself to the hero of Light? I am just so unsure. It actually is so hard to try to figure out that it hurts my head to think about it! Lol


Now I have done a ton of researching concerning this and have read many different opinions from a lot of people.
I've read some that say he was able to appear before Sora because he is a part of Xehanort. But I am having trouble believing this for some reason...
What happened to Vanitas after Birth By Sleep is a huge mystery that will more than likely be touched upon in KH III.
But I would still like some more ideas based on how the fans thought about it.


So if anyone here has some real evidence that proves what caused him to appear, or has some really good theories on it, I would really love to hear them.
Maybe with a bunch of KH masterminds working together we can come close to unraveling the mysteries of Vanitas.


Thank you to anyone who shares their thoughts on here.
 

Solo

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
4,606
Age
29
Location
Indonesia
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Dandelion
  • Retired Staff
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts χ[chi]
  • Bravely Default
Or it could also be that Vanitas' appearance was simply Ventus' heart reacting and could only be "seen" (in the sense of being felt) by Ventus. For all we know, Vanitas might have been invisible to Sora himself, and his confusion might have came only from Young Xehanort's words, not from actually seeing Vanitas.
 

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
31,933
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?

Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.
— What about Vanitas?

Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.
His appearance was caused by Ven's heart reacting to what Young Xehanort was saying. It was one of many ways they attempted to push Sora's heart into the darkness.

The reason fans see this as a possible confirmation that Vanitas might end up being a vessel is because he was a tool of Xehanort that still likely has purpose, and the fact he has telltale signs of being a possible Xehanort i.e. the eyes (since we can't see his ears).
 

ChibiHearts249

Trapped in the Source Filmmaker
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
3,282
Age
23
Location
In my room, fighting off the Nightmares
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Writer of Writers
I'm also of the opinion that Sora didn't really see Vanitas. I mean, if I saw a doppelganger of myself staring back at me, I think I'd take pause at the very least. Now scientifically if you meet a look-alike, you will see them as a stranger. But I've looked in the mirror, and I'm sure Sora's seen his own reflection before.

The lack of Sora even being concerned with who exactly is speaking is pretty normal. He an oblivious character. But missing out on commenting about Vanitas' presence? I can't say he would. So I must assume that we were seeing the events through a shutter and BOTH Ven and Sora's eyes.
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
I've always been curious of that scene as well but I don't truly think Sora saw him either. In the quotes Ethy posted, one says it as he was just an image to show ties to Ventus while another makes it sound like he could possibly there yet since Sora shows no signs of actually seeing him I'm more inclined to think it was for the audience.

It was to show us not only a hint that Vanitas will be a seeker but to show us Ventus is reacting. Up till DDD Ven has remained mostly dormant within Sora, Roxas and then later Sora once again.
We've seen signs of Ventus thanks to Roxas' face and duel wielding but it wasn't until DDD that he seemed to be conscious like when he tried to rescue Sora as his heart fell into sleep by putting him in his armor.
 

kreezy64

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
112
Location
North East Ohio
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts χ[chi]
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
Up till DDD Ven has remained mostly dormant within Sora, Roxas and then later Sora once again.
We've seen signs of Ventus thanks to Roxas' face and duel wielding but it wasn't until DDD that he seemed to be conscious like when he tried to rescue Sora as his heart fell into sleep by putting him in his armor.
Was This only because Ven wasn't yet a concept? You would think throughout CoM Sora would REALLY be feeling Ven since they're in the same building.
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
Was This only because Ven wasn't yet a concept? You would think throughout CoM Sora would REALLY be feeling Ven since they're in the same building.
Likely so. BBS wasn't an idea with concepts and designs till KH2. In KH2 final mixes ending his face was finally revealed but before that he wasn't a thing except to Nomura.
Due to how Ven's story ended you can attribute his lack of activity to his dormant situation which avoids issues with story.

Now with KH3 on the horizon it was fine and best to show that he's growing conscious if not already fully so.
 

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
2,911
Was This only because Ven wasn't yet a concept? You would think throughout CoM Sora would REALLY be feeling Ven since they're in the same building.
Maybe it's because Namine was messing with Sora's memories, so Ven's memories were messed up too? Remember most of Ven's memories filtered into Xion, so they weren't even in Sora at that time.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,222
Location
Germany
  • Cloaked Schemer
  • Taciturn Stalwart
  • Chilly Academic
  • Whirlwind Lancer
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Fairest of them All
You would think throughout CoM Sora would REALLY be feeling Ven since they're in the same building.
Not really because at the time of CoM Sora did not have Ven's heart in him anymore. It was situated in Roxas during that time period and when Roxas enters Castle Oblivion during Days you get to see very bluntly how Ventus' presence is affecting him.
 

gamerobber7

Bronze Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,580
Location
Just wandering around
  • Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
Interesting theories. I'm leaning towards Sora not actually seeing Vanitas as well because I always felt his reaction was a little underwhelming. It's also weird that he never brings up the fact that he saw someone who look just like him, albeit with black hair.
 

SoraForeverKH

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
147
Location
I wish was Destiny Islands
Or it could also be that Vanitas' appearance was simply Ventus' heart reacting and could only be "seen" (in the sense of being felt) by Ventus. For all we know, Vanitas might have been invisible to Sora himself, and his confusion might have came only from Young Xehanort's words, not from actually seeing Vanitas.
Thanks for replying and sharing your thoughts.That is a highly relatable theory you have. The only reason I question if Sora saw Vanitas or not was because of the way his eyes seemed to be moving left and right, as if he were looking at two distinct faces. But there definitely is no way to tell for sure. It would make sense though if Vanitas had been invisible to Sora but could be seen taking form only because of Ventus' heart reacting inside Sora.
But what caused Ventus' heart to feel his presence in the first place. At the time it was only YX who was approaching Sora. So what triggered Ventus to sense Vanitas was close?Surely it couldn't have been YX and Vanitas' words that caused Ven's heart to remember Vanitas, thus giving form to a transparent version of himself. It was during the time they were saying the words in unison when the ghost-like version of Vanitas began to appear.
For it to be caused because of the words that were said, I don't think Ven's heart would've been able to respond so quickly and trigger Vanitas to appear until after the words had already been said. Because up until then, how could Ven's heart have known what the mysterious youth was about to say? So it couldn't have been the quote: "Even if you are not the prisoner," that caused Ventus' heart to react and give form to Vanitas.Still, there is always a chance what YX had said before that is what affected Ven's heart and caused him to think of his Dark half. When he mentioned, "you are the one who has made your heart a prison," he was bringing up the people who had all but been forgotten after joining inside Sora's heart.
Perhaps those were the words which caught Ventus' attention after pretty much keeping his presence unknown throughout most of Sora's adventures. I believe Sora probably would've had a bigger reaction if he suddenly saw someone who resembled him while only bearing a few differences in appearance. From what we could tell, the words were very confusing to him and brought him to questioning if they could even be true.

There is no proof to confirm if he was or wasn't able to see Vanitas, but it is very likely he WAS invisible to Sora.Maybe Sora's eyes were indeed scanning at the two figures, but through two people's different point of views.It could be that it was both Sora and Ven's eyes which were each looking at the two mysterious figures at the same time but through the same body. Which would mean Sora didn't see the same boy Ventus was seeing.

Still, very complex though! Lol
 
Last edited:

SoraForeverKH

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
147
Location
I wish was Destiny Islands
Wow! I also remember reading that interview with Nomura. I couldn't believe it after I read it!So basically what that is saying is YX and Vanitas were trying to awaken Ventus from within Sora's heart so Sora wouldn't be in complete control of himself. Which would make it easy for him to abandon his own heart in all the confusion so the organization would be able to take over his body without having to face a strong resistance from Sora's heart. That explains how it was important that Vanitas help deliver that message with YX, too. He was the main key to bringing out Ventus' hidden existence within Sora.

Thank you for sharing that. It was most helpful. Now the only thing that remains a mystery is where Vanitas came from.If he were able to become one of Xehanort's dark vessels in the Dream Realm then shouldn't he have been wearing a black organization coat instead of his original attire from BBS? I don't think he could've been a part of the organization then, due to not being able to fully materialize. And I also don't think he was present in the scene which was shown after Xigbar had shot lasers down at Sora to make the current eleven dark vessels appear around him in TWTNW. I looked at them all very closely, with magnification, and I couldn't find any of its belonging members to look short enough to match Vantias' height, (I would guess to look about like the size of Roxas.)

I'm not saying that there's no chance of him becoming the thirteenth vessel in KH III or anything. Just that from what I can tell, he has not been added into the organization yet.If MX must take over someone in KH III to clash with the seven Lights I would prefer it being Vanitas instead of one of the heroes. Though, I think Vanitas deserves a fair chance to be welcomed into the Realm of Light too, considering he is ready and willing to change of course. Lol

He had a very rough and ruined life caused by MX during his existence, never really having a chance to understand the feelings and emotions of the heart.All I can say about that is Sora's story from DDD is, SO CRUEL! KH 3D's story led to many terrible things happening to Sora, things we could never imagine! I know I definitely wasn't expecting it before after the game came out.

.
His appearance was caused by Ven's heart reacting to what Young Xehanort was saying. It was one of many ways they attempted to push Sora's heart into the darkness.The reason fans see this as a possible confirmation that Vanitas might end up being a vessel is because he was a tool of Xehanort that still likely has purpose, and the fact he has telltale signs of being a possible Xehanort i.e. the eyes (since we can't see his ears).
 

SoraForeverKH

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
147
Location
I wish was Destiny Islands
I'm also of the opinion that Sora didn't really see Vanitas. I mean, if I saw a doppelganger of myself staring back at me, I think I'd take pause at the very least. Now scientifically if you meet a look-alike, you will see them as a stranger. But I've looked in the mirror, and I'm sure Sora's seen his own reflection before.

The lack of Sora even being concerned with who exactly is speaking is pretty normal. He an oblivious character. But missing out on commenting about Vanitas' presence? I can't say he would. So I must assume that we were seeing the events through a shutter and BOTH Ven and Sora's eyes.

First, I must commend you on your brilliant word for Vanitas. That really describes him from 3D to a T.And I agree. He should've had more of a shocked reaction if he actually saw the boy who looked just like him, only with black hair and yellow eyes. And of course with more of a muscular build than Sora. Lol


Sora will very often forget to be concerned or mention the mysterious things he encounters, even when they are obviously of huge importance.
We saw this in the end in of KH 3D in Yen Sid's tower, where he completely forgot to bring up any of the mysterious people he saw in his dream to his friends, acting as though none of it had even happened. Even after seeing a most shocking event where the girl Naminé suddenly turned a girl with black hair, Xion.
He didn't ask anything about Aqua either, and that had to make him wonder.
I guess that's just our typical Sora though. Hey, so many crazy things have happened to him within only a couple or more years in his life. He probably doesn't know what to think about any of it, let alone try talking about it with his friends!
But yeah. If he had really seen Vanitas he probably would've given one of his dramatic lines like, "What?" Because that would certainly be disturbing!
So, even while I can't be 100℅ sure, I think I am inclined to believe Sora didn't see Ventus' dark half, too.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 

Riku-KH

New member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
106
Location
Sometimes Destiny Islands. other times Twilight to
The matter doesn't puzzle me quite as much as it used to. That makes a lot of sense that Sora didn't see Vanitas. If I saw a strange person who looks like me that just popped out from nowhere, I would show a lot more emotion. Sora just stood there looking at Xehanort. He never flinched or anything. That's a pretty good theory. Thanks! But it still troubles me why Sora was moving his eyes left and right. Unless It was showing Sora's and Ven's eyes. So this still leaves it all very confusing.
 

SoraForeverKH

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
147
Location
I wish was Destiny Islands
I've always been curious of that scene as well but I don't truly think Sora saw him either. In the quotes Ethy posted, one says it as he was just an image to show ties to Ventus while another makes it sound like he could possibly there yet since Sora shows no signs of actually seeing him I'm more inclined to think it was for the audience.

It was to show us not only a hint that Vanitas will be a seeker but to show us Ventus is reacting. Up till DDD Ven has remained mostly dormant within Sora, Roxas and then later Sora once again.
We've seen signs of Ventus thanks to Roxas' face and duel wielding but it wasn't until DDD that he seemed to be conscious like when he tried to rescue Sora as his heart fell into sleep by putting him in his armor.

Good points there.Ventus also showed a reaction in the secret ending in Castle Oblivion/The room of awakening after Sora happily thanked his Dream Eaters back in the...Realm of Sleep? He even smiled.
Was the scene where Sora departed from the Mysterious Tower meant to show us that Sora and Riku can now travel between the two different dimensions anytime they want with their new powers?
But anyway, the idea of having Ventus suddenly start reacting in his sleep, unless he's always been doing this and it's just now showing us, it all makes you wonder if Sora and Ventus' connection is getting stronger. Almost as if they might be on the verge of merging into one.
All it took were projections of Terra and Aqua back in Sora's dream/nightmare for Ventus to suddenly take over Sora's whole appearance and almost take control.
If Ven can also feel Sora's emotions then these two must be tightly linked to each other. As for what will become of this, it looks like we'll have to wait until KH III is released to find out.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 

SoraForeverKH

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
147
Location
I wish was Destiny Islands
Was This only because Ven wasn't yet a concept? You would think throughout CoM Sora would REALLY be feeling Ven since they're in the same building.

Very true, except for Sora strangely failing to be affected by the sleeping Ventus hidden away in Castle Oblivion in CoM.That was due to Sora not being whole then. With his nobody Roxas being in existence and the untimely creation of Vexen's replica Xion, he was even losing his memories as they were being absorbed by them. Sora was probably less than half of who he should've been in CoM.
So at that time, he more than likely hardly had any connection with Ventus at all.


I was also confused about this at first too until I did some more observing and researching with the other games.
At first I just thought it had something to do with the oblivion spell put over the mysterious castle. A lot still confuses me about CoM. Lol
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
Good points there.Ventus also showed a reaction in the secret ending in Castle Oblivion/The room of awakening after Sora happily thanked his Dream Eaters back in the...Realm of Sleep? He even smiled.
Was the scene where Sora departed from the Mysterious Tower meant to show us that Sora and Riku can now travel between the two different dimensions anytime they want with their new powers?
But anyway, the idea of having Ventus suddenly start reacting in his sleep, unless he's always been doing this and it's just now showing us, it all makes you wonder if Sora and Ventus' connection is getting stronger. Almost as if they might be on the verge of merging into one.
All it took were projections of Terra and Aqua back in Sora's dream/nightmare for Ventus to suddenly take over Sora's whole appearance and almost take control.
If Ven can also feel Sora's emotions then these two must be tightly linked to each other. As for what will become of this, it looks like we'll have to wait until KH III is released to find out.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Exactly. That scene at the end of DDD was made to show Ventus is more conscious now. He's gotten better and is reacting to things Sora is.
Yes it was. It was displaying Sora & Riku's new powers. They can open gates there and Riku showed they can dive into anothers heart/sleep.
It's possible Ventus has been reacting the whole time and we didn't know. It depends on how much he'd healed at that point. I'd say it's safe to assume the connection is stronger as well since Ventus is getting better but not the extent they're merging. Them merging would defeat the point of Sora saving everyone. It's all meant to show the connections between the characters.

They're more than tightly linked if you think about it. Sora connected to Ventus as he was being born, for Sora, he's been connected his entire life. And in turn Sora filled in the part left by Vanitas until Ventus healed on his own.
Sora and Ventus are as closely linked as two people can be without merging into one being or without being like Xehanort and taking control of another being.

I was also confused about this at first too until I did some more observing and researching with the other games.
At first I just thought it had something to do with the oblivion spell put over the mysterious castle. A lot still confuses me about CoM. Lol
You seem to get more than you think. =3
Castle Oblivion's only power is to make one lost in it's halls. The whole aspect of losing memories was Namine messing with Sora. And because of Sora being not only incomplete without Ven's heart but also Vens dormant nature there was no affects.

Plus tbf I doubt Ventus would affect Sora as much as Roxas. When Roxas went into the Castle both Sora and Ventus were still there.
For Roxas it wasn't just Ven's body and heart calling out to each other but Roxas himself reacting to Sora as well.

Everything about Roxas is borrowed and at the moment Roxas walked into the castle the rightful owners of what he's borrowed called out to whats theirs.

I'm still getting the hang of how everything works on KH inside since I only just joined this year.
I will reply to the rest of the comments soon.
Remember the edit button when you do. Staff here don't like double posting. ;3
 
Top