Gay Marriage - YES or NO?

[New2Ya]

Kindly, explain how hormonal imbalance and sexuality works. Honestly, I would really like to see your reasoning on why you think hormonal imbalance affects one's sexual orientation because I honestly think you're just spouting out the media is saying without actually understanding hormones at all.

Hormonal imbalance my ass. Males are attracted to females because of their hormones, mainly estrogen. If men are attracted to other men and you try explaining it using hormones, wouldn't that mean they'd produce a lot of estrogen? A lot of their body parts would be similar to females; i.e., they'd have breasts.

Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What would you claim to be a logical explanation why people are gay? Choice is a no no, gene is obviously not the case. So what is? If you say hormones aren't the cause either, what the hell would be? God?

What, and you do? Let me refer back to
So under the assumption that people are born gay, would any of this change? Talk about insensitive.

Explain what is inconsistent in my argumentation here, because in both quotes, I stand for the same thing. In fact, I say the same thing in both quotes. O_O

 

[Vayne Mechanics]

I don't pretend that I know what causes it. I don't. All I know is, when you look at someone and your body tells you you're attracted to them, it's not much of a choice.

Not much of a choice, yes, but homosexuality really can't be explained via sex hormones.

 

[New2Ya]

This is interesting:
Lesbian model Katherine Dalton has sex change to become gay man | Weird True Freaky | News.com.au

Lesbian has sex-change (with hormones, obviously) and becomes gay. Headline is bad, because she didnt have a sex change to become gay. That was a side-effect, apparently.

I wouldn't disregard hormones as the reason, although this is just one case. But still.

 

[Wehrmacht]

If being gay was proven to be natural, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would still hate them anyway. People are just stupid that way.

Regardless of possible motivations like being closer to women, attention, and just wanting to rebel in general, I doubt that homosexuality is solely choice-based. I won't pretend to know what causes it, but the notion that absolutely everyone would choose to cite themselves as part of a discriminated sexual minority and act on it for those reasons alone is just silly to me.

On another note, to clarify, I'm pretty sure Silh doesn't think being gay is necessarily wrong, he just doubts it's natural.

 

[Vayne Mechanics]

Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neurohormonal theories of sexual orientation emphasize the organizational effects of testosterone on the developing brain. A recent suggestion, that the ratio of the length of the 2nd and 4th digits (2D:4D) is negatively correlated with prenatal testosterone, has led to a number of studies of 2D:4D in homosexual and heterosexual men and women. The results have been mixed. In comparison to heterosexual men, mean 2D:4D in gay men has been reported to be hypermasculinized (lower 2D:4D), hypomasculinized (higher 2D:4D), or to show no significant difference. Here, we report mean 2D:4D in Austrian homosexual and heterosexual men. We found no significant difference between means for homosexual and heterosexual 2D:4D, with values for both falling between 0.96 to 0.97. There are now 6 reports of 2D:4D in heterosexual and homosexual men. Considering Caucasian men, the studies from the United States show low heterosexual mean 2D:4D, and homosexual mean 2D:4D is higher or similar to that of heterosexuals. The European studies show high heterosexual mean 2D:4D, and comparisons with homosexuals reveal the latter to have lower or similar mean 2D:4D to that of heterosexuals. We discuss these results in relation to the suggestion that mean 2D:4D in heterosexual men differs across populations but mean 2D:4D in homosexuals shows less geographical variation (the "uniform mean hypothesis"). It is concluded that more data are required to clarify whether or not there is a 2D:4D effect for sexual orientation in men.

Source: Digit ratio (2D:4D) in homosexual and heterosexual...[Arch Sex Behav. 2005] - PubMed Result

What would you claim to be a logical explanation why people are gay? Choice is a no no, gene is obviously not the case. So what is? If you say hormones aren't the cause either, what the hell would be? God?

Doesn't seem to be hormones though. There may be evidence for it, but that doesn't rule out that there is evidence against it. Simply believing something you see on wikipedia in regards to homosexuality and possible biological causes is stupid and you should feel stupid. There's evidence for other causes to, but similarly, it's not enough.

 

[New2Ya]

When such a large portion, that has always been consistent, has a different sexual orientation, and it is even seen regularly in the animal kingdom, I don't know what you can bring up as an argument to call it unnatural.

I'd say, good luck. :tongue:

Like you stated, there is absolutely no reason to want to be gay. In my opinion, it's unfair, undeserved and demeaning to claim gays are lying about their sexuality and how they attained it. Because that is exactly what you do when you claim they chose to be gay.
This is an important issue in the gay marriage topic, because many people that are against the equal rights for gay people claim it's unnatural and a choice.

Simply believing something you see on wikipedia in regards to homosexuality and possible biological causes is stupid and you should feel stupid. There's evidence for other causes to, but similarly, it's not enough.

Obviusly I didnt get this information from wikipedia originally, but I am lazy to find actual sources. I'm a lazy bastard, sue me. :tongue:

 

[Vandread]

bullshit? , gays choose to be that way, if you try and say their born that way your saying their a race, people are born either black or white, not gay or straight!! so bullshit back to you...

I am born with blue eyes and dark hair. That has nothing to do with race either. Your point?

Oh really I'm the one pushing an agenda????? Are you really that blind, gay agenda has been around for a long time, ever since gays started given their HIV infected blood to innocent people they've had an agenda.

hahaha wow you are a biggoted idiot

OK, fine, let's say they have been pushing some big, bad gay agenda. You and your religious bullshit is still just as bad, no, worse.

Sorry but your whats wrong with America :23:

No, you are what's wrong with America. Paolo is what's right with Brazil you dumbfuck.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with gay people marrying; if two people want to marry, how do we have any say in the matter?

Though, to be honest with you, I couldn't truly care either way, nor should any hetrosexual person; who are we to make decisions solely belonging to a separate group of people? Our lives would remain relatively unchanged if this decision was made either way, so why bother ourselves with this, or meddle in affairs that we don't belong in? Gay folks, if you wish to get married, then by all means, do so; it doesn't affect me, so it doesn't matter to me. Though, if I did have the right to truly debate this issue, I would support it fully; these people should have no reason to be afraid in a country designed to accept all peoples.

Funny, weren't you against it a few months ago? I could have sworn...

Well, regardless, I do agree that we heterosexuals should not have a say in the matter, but we are the ones in charge, keeping the scary unknown oppressed.

Also, on the whole choice or not debate, I'm not going to pretend I know one way or another, but either way, it doesn't change the fact that they exist and are being treated differently.

 

[Vayne Mechanics]

Obviusly I didnt get this information from wikipedia originally, but I am lazy to find actual sources. I'm a lazy bastard, sue me. :tongue:

Let me reiterate; there's also evidence against it.

 

[Ulti]

God, some stupid shit in this thread. I'll say this once.

THE RIGHT TO MARRY IS DETERMINED BY THE STATE

Religion means shit. A religion cannot force you to marry or not allow you to marry. It is up to the state. If the state says gay marriage is ok, then it is. Look how many states ok'd gay marriage. You don't see them getting God's wrath, now do you? Don't act is if religion runs this country. It never has and never will <<

 

[gelandporn]

There may be evidence for it, but that doesn't rule out that there is evidence against it.

So what?

Kindly, explain how hormonal imbalance and sexuality works.

You asked and he answered.

I think you're missing the point. One way or the other:

But homosexuality is not a choice nonetheless. Anyone who claims it is really is the biggest moron in the world and has NO IDEA what gay people go through. Weird, how anyone can have such a weak ability to understand other people's feelings.

 

[Ulti]

With the crap they can get, who would want the choice to be gay? That's like saying cancer is a choice. You are what you are. You can't change it.

 

[New2Ya]

Let me reiterate; there's also evidence against it.

True. But what do you want me to tell you? That hormones have absolutely no effect because there are arguments against it as there are arguments for it? There are many facts of life that still have arguments against it from certian points of views.

When you look at twins, apparently in most cases, their sexual orientation is the same. If that is true, and the gay gene isn't, there must be some link. Both bodies getting the same 'disorder'. Coincidence? It could be, were it not that apparently most twins have the same sexual orientation. So I don't think so.

My point in the end is, like Grace Assassin shows, it's not a choice. I don't choose who I'm attracted to either. Neither do you.

That's like saying cancer is a choice. You are what you are. You can't change it.

Exactly. Best choice of words so far. period.

 

[Vandread]

Don't act is if religion runs this country. It never has and never will <<

Evidently, it does :v

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

In America, same-sex marriage should not even be an issue. In countries like the Vatican City, I respect the right of the country to deny its citizens the right to same-sex marriage about as much as I respect the country itself.

In my ideal society marriage would not be a legal matter at all, and it would be kept strictly within a religious context thus it would probably be exclusive to heterosexual couples. That being said, I would settle for a life partner and forgo the rituals and niceties involved in the entire marriage process. I may do that anyway.

But sadly that is not the case, and marriage has been turned into something that is just as much about legal benefits as it is about partnership.

The first amendment of the United States constitution very clearly stipulates that the American legal system doesn't respect any establishments of religion, so where is the big debate on this subject coming from? The question is not whether or not marriage is a religious institution. Even if it is (and it probably is) the United States is, by its own law, obligated not to honor that conviction. So long as marriage is an integrated part of our governmental policy, it must be taken strictly within a social context. Gay marriage should be legal, end of story.

 

[New2Ya]

Evidently, it does :v

Yet the USA is supposed to be a secular state. Ironic, huh.

 

[Azrael]

Yet the USA is supposed to be a secular state. Ironic, huh.

Impossible considering that Europe threw out its Christian fundamentalists to the Americas.

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

I have to throw in that if you still don't believe that homosexuality is biological you are just a fucking idiot.

But of course that isn't the point of this thread.

 

[Shamdeo]

To be honest, if gay marriage was legal ( which I support ), the only problem would be finding a church to marry you. Which several do, by the by. However if you're a Catholic dude who wants to marry another Catholic dude by a Catholic priest in a Catholic church, I think they have every right to object because of what they define marriage as. You can't have a double-standard for separation of powers.

 

[Allister Rose]

i may be bi and all, but why do gays, and lesbians need marriage? i stilld ont see why straight people need it.

in fact gays and lesbians have proven themselves to be settled with just living with eachother

 

[Vandread]

i may be bi and all, but why do gays, and lesbians need marriage? i stilld ont see why straight people need it.

It's not about needing it, it's about equal treatment.

in fact gays and lesbians have proven themselves to be settled with just living with eachother

Obviously not if it is still such an issue.