Final Fantasy in Kingdom Hearts 3

[Loial11]

Nomura has stated a few times already that the Final Fantasy characters are just cameo appearances. Their world in the KH universe is Hollow Bastion/Radiant Gardens. (Unknown about Vivi and setzer however) Sephiroth and CLoud is just a sidestory of Cloud being angsty and battling his "Dark" side.

Nomura has clearly stated that Kingdom Hearts is the story of the Keyblade and Sora's involvement with it. While a FF fanatic like myself enjoy their presence, I do not believe he will or should add FF worlds.

 

[Darth Seraphim]

ok about Vivi as i recall Vivi was a child who was unsure about himself and had a tendency to look up to others. He draws his strength from zidane's encouragements. so Vivi being the way he was in KH is accurate. So I honestly dont think kingdom hearts ruined Vivi in anyway. Vivi in all respects was kind of a clumsy wuss and they did a pretty good job portraying that. Vivi looking up to seifer makes a lot of sence because he did the same thing to zidane. Vivi is just a little kid, he was a little kid back in final fantasy IX and he was a little kid in KH.

 

[Koji]

ok about Vivi as i recall Vivi was a child who was unsure about himself and had a tendency to look up to others. He draws his strength from zidane's encouragements. so Vivi being the way he was in KH is accurate. So I honestly dont think kingdom hearts ruined Vivi in anyway. Vivi in all respects was kind of a clumsy wuss and they did a pretty good job portraying that. Vivi looking up to seifer makes a lot of sence because he did the same thing to zidane. Vivi is just a little kid, he was a little kid back in final fantasy IX and he was a little kid in KH.

Well, FF9 fans seem to like to complain about it, and thats why they're not getting FF9 compilation, remake, or even a tech demo.
They dont seem to want FF9 stuff to be re-used, but get ticked off when "FF7 is taking over". :closedeyes:

 

[gottaluvkh1992]

i think they should include more orginal ff worlds like ff1, ff4, ff5(worlds) they would be good and maybe make people want to but the older ff games.

 

[Ban Mido]

For all of those who want FF removed, I say this to you:

Kingdom Hearts without Disney, is Final Fantasy.

Kingdom Hearts without Final Fantasy, is lame.


And the TC's question about Cloud's home world may have been answered a few times, but the majority of the FF characters in KH are believed to live in Radiant Garden/Hollow Bastion. To my knowledge, their are three worlds that have been confirmed to be the homes of the FF versions of KH.

Radiant Garden: Leon, Cloud, Sephiroth, Cid, Yuffie, Tifa, Aerith, YuRiPa.

Destiny Islands: Tidus, Wakka, Selphie.

Twilight Town: Seifer, Raijin, Fuujin, Vivi, Setzer.

As for Auron, I don't think his world has ever been confirmed.

 

[Sir Jecht]

Well, FF9 fans seem to like to complain about it, and thats why they're not getting FF9 compilation, remake, or even a tech demo.
They dont seem to want FF9 stuff to be re-used, but get ticked off when "FF7 is taking over". :closedeyes:

Well maybe we just don't want a milking process to begin making fans feel more like dollar bills than actual people. Don't you start Koji, compared to all thing that have been done to FFVII(spin-offs and pure hatred of 7) certain FFIX fans don't want it to go down the same road. You and I have already addressed that issue. :closedeyes:

ok about Vivi as i recall Vivi was a child who was unsure about himself and had a tendency to look up to others. He draws his strength from zidane's encouragements. so Vivi being the way he was in KH is accurate. So I honestly dont think kingdom hearts ruined Vivi in anyway. Vivi in all respects was kind of a clumsy wuss and they did a pretty good job portraying that. Vivi looking up to seifer makes a lot of sence because he did the same thing to zidane. Vivi is just a little kid, he was a little kid back in final fantasy IX and he was a little kid in KH.

That my be somewhat true but Vivi is not necessarily some weak little wuss like he was in KHII. People who didn't play FFIX would just automatically think that he's weak, has no use, and is easily manipulated. Vivi is more deep than that but with the watered down version we see in KHII a lot of people will think otherwise unless they play FFIX. That side of Vivi is only one-dimension of him, so fans of FFIX are naturally gonna have anger about this.

That is some of the problems with FF characters in KH, sometimes they work and other times they really don't.

i think they should include more orginal ff worlds like ff1, ff4, ff5(worlds) they would be good and maybe make people want to but the older ff game

Older fans of FF are very torn on this issue. On one hand you have more people interested in the older FF's but on the other hand you have Nomura (who is like public enemy #1 to a lot of old FF fans) portraying those characters and making people like them because of him and most don't want him doing that.

I just don't want any FF worlds at all, RG is enough for me but if we do get a FF world then I want Zack or Rufus to be in the game! If those fans get there dumb wish fulfilled then I want mine to be fulfilled too. Give me my heroes!!!

 

[Darth Seraphim]

Vivi was a child. True he had magic and he was strong with that magic but he still had issues with confidence. In final fantasy IX zidane had to encourage him and help him reach his potential. He drew his strength from others. He was still a clumsy child who tripped over himself. In Kingdom hearts II he didnt get the enouragement from Seifer that he did from Zidane. So the way he turned out is about what i would expect from Vivi. He wanted friends and he wanted to be strong. I'd say given the circumstance and his enviroment he turned out exactly as he should have with out the encourageing role model Zidane was. Vivi was a push over who was taken advantage of. Plus Vivi was a cameo, his complex storyline about being a simple puppet made from mist didnt really apply to the game and with his child like personallity and lack of confidence he made the perfect character to look up to seifer in twilight town. I cant think of a better place you could have placed Vivi in Kingdom hearts. he would have been out of place anywhere else. I do agree that they did water him down a little bit but Vivi isnt the focus of the game he's just filler and in a role like that there is not enough character developement to do much else. I'm Happy with the fact that they didnt stray from the naive child like personallity he was known for. I think what make kingdom hearts so fun is looking out for your favorite FF characters and seeing how there personallitys are incorporated to the enviroment kingdom hearts presents.

 

[Sir Jecht]

Vivi was a child. True he had magic and he was strong with that magic but he still had issues with confidence. In final fantasy IX zidane had to encourage him and help him reach his potential. He drew his strength from others. He was still a clumsy child who tripped over himself. In Kingdom hearts II he didnt get the enouragement from Seifer that he did from Zidane. So the way he turned out is about what i would expect from Vivi. He wanted friends and he wanted to be strong. I'd say given the circumstance and his enviroment he turned out exactly as he should have with out the encourageing role model Zidane was. Vivi was a push over who was taken advantage of. Plus Vivi was a cameo, his complex storyline about being a simple puppet made from mist didnt really apply to the game and with his child like personallity and lack of confidence he made the perfect character to look up to seifer in twilight town. I cant think of a better place you could have placed Vivi in Kingdom hearts. he would have been out of place anywhere else. I do agree that they did water him down a little bit but Vivi isnt the focus of the game he's just filler and in a role like that there is not enough character developement to do much else. I'm Happy with the fact that they didnt stray from the naive child like personallity he was known for. I think what make kingdom hearts so fun is looking out for your favorite FF characters and seeing how there personallitys are incorporated to the enviroment kingdom hearts presents.

Like I stated before people who don't know that about Vivi got the wrong idea about him. Giving a character like Vivi a simple role like that in KHII he isn't going to appear the way fans of FFIX now know him as. At the root Vivi is weak but he developed into much more and became more than just a mere lost child, with him just being perceived as a weakling and nothing else so how are people going to know what Vivi really is or what he became? Since he is such a beloved character of FFIX people naturally get angry when they see that others think Vivi is pointless or just weak due to KHII. That is the problem to FFIX fans , taking a character and just showing him as what he is at the beginning makes others see a completely different character. Adding Vivi I think was wrong since he develops so much that a mere cameo showing him as a weakling was bound to make people mad. Since the story about Vivi as you stated can't really be incorporated in the story then the people who don't know FFIX will think he is only what they saw in KHII and that to FFIX fans is a problem.

It's kinda like that with Tifa unless people played VII they just think that Tifa is some strong crazy chick that chases a blonde-haired guy around and isn't there for much more than (sweet) eye candy. The only difference is that Tifa is shown as a strong woman without real motives for some of her actions and Vivi is shown as a child who is pointless and a pushover. Same thing with Setzer since in KHII he is more flamboyant( gay in today's world) than he really is in FFVI.

This is the problem with certain FF characters in KH, unless it is done right an entire characters can be judged in the wrong way.

 

[Darth Seraphim]

Well Thats the fatal flaw with a cameo is that you dont get the entire picture. I'd rather they put him in the game and follow the personallity from the origional game instead of not putting him in at all. The thing that i like with the approch that kingdom hearts takes with FF characters is that they give you a base personallity of what the character was and they leave you to wonder what that character is all about. It make it so fans of KH who never played FF more interested in playing the older games to find out more about the characters history. Its a good way to get new people interested in other games from the company and to further the companys success. Of course there are going to be people who havent played the game who are going to criticise them negatively with only a cameo to base it off of, but there are also going to be the people who havent played it who are going to be generally interested in why the character is the way they are and they are going to seek out the game and play it so they are filled in. plus there will always be the people who are fans of Vivi to defend him from such people anyway so i fail to see what the big problem is. What my arguments about is the fact that if you want the life story from a cameo character then you can go off and find the game he came from and play through it. Vivi wouldnt be a cameo if they replayed his story and development all over again. I feel that saying KH ruined Vivi was overly exaggerated and that in all honesty if you look at the character in comparison to both games They were dead on with the personallity.

PS. I agree with you on Setzer. i mean there are a few comparisons that are correct. but over all they didnt use him in the correct manner.

 

[Sir Jecht]

Well Thats the fatal flaw with a cameo is that you dont get the entire picture. I'd rather they put him in the game and follow the personallity from the origional game instead of not putting him in at all.

I would have liked if no FFIX characters were in KH in general because of the problems I saw with Vivi. I don't really want characters that Amano created to be redone by Nomura and that is one of the reasons why I'm on the fence about FF: DISIDA (sp?).

Its a good way to get new people interested in other games from the company and to further the companys success. Of course there are going to be people who havent played the game who are going to criticise them negatively with only a cameo to base it off of, but there are also going to be the people who havent played it who are going to be generally interested in why the character is the way they are and they are going to seek out the game and play it so they are filled in. plus there will always be the people who are fans of Vivi to defend him from such people anyway so i fail to see what the big problem is.

But if their perception of a character is based off of something that is seen as rather let's say uninteresting then they will feel that they have no reason to further understand that character. Like this Vivi=weak girly voiced kid compared to someone like Auron=Strong, dark, and troubled character people are going to respond more positively to Auron than Vivi even though they know nothing really about Vivi or even Auron. A lot of new FF fans and KH fans are very skeptical about characters that aren't "cool" or "dark" at first glance and when a character like Vivi is shown as the exact opposite of what people like then he is going to be ruined in a way without them even giving him a chance.

What my arguments about is the fact that if you want the life story from a cameo character then you can go off and find the game he came from and play through it. Vivi wouldnt be a cameo if they replayed his story and development all over again. I feel that saying KH ruined Vivi was overly exaggerated and that in all honesty if you look at the character in comparison to both games They were dead on with the personallity.

Like I stated above people go based on what they see if they see a weak kid then to them that what Vivi is and will always be a weak kid. I know that KH couldn't go in depth with his character but the little that they showed didn't give his character much justice since there is more to him then that. Yes people could go and play FFIX but will they really want to play it when all they know is KHII Vivi? In most cases no, sadly since people judge so damn quickly nowadays.

Like Cloud in KH1 a few of my friends didn't know who he was until KH1 came out and since he was shown as the strong "cool" loner they naturally liked him. Cloud is dare I say deeper than just that and has more to him but that's what they saw and that's what made them play FFVII or watch AC I forget which. When Vivi was shown I automatically know it would be a problem because of how KH FF characters are done, they are just watered down versions of what they really are and having only one FFIX character try to portray all of FFIX for the KH audiences to see was just done in a bad way to most fans. Our chance to show people how interesting IX is and we get a pushover Vivi as the avatar for IX's brilliance. Saddening to some of us really..

FFVII got the strong and "dark" Cloud and Sephy. FFVIII got the intelligent Leon/Squall and FFIX got the weak side of Vivi....thanks Nomu, thanks.

 

[Darth Seraphim]

Well that may be with most of the fans that look for darker loner characters. but since KH is a disney based game there are people who look for the cute naive little kid type characters. so in that aspect there will be a boost in what those people see in Vivi. Most people who play KH are usually Female or they are younger. The disney aspect of the game draws a crowd that would except vivi and sence his character wasnt ever meant to be a Cold dark loner of a character he draws more on the Cute naive kid who stumbles on himself and has a big heart and potential hidden underneath that pointy hat. Kingdom hearts was never meant to be an overly dark game anyway and its audience draws on a wider range then just the teenage male who looks for the cool character with the shady past. If any game would be most excepting of a character like Vivi Kingdom hearts would be it. Plus thats how the game was created and the game has been established for its cross over of FF with disney. So i doubt that there will be any change in the format. Plus its final fantasy's cameos that helps bring in the big bucks for squenix. No matter how much the little guy complains the big brother always gets his way. plus this is straying from my original point. Vivi's personallity was portraid accurately. The only thing really is his high over exagerated voice but thats to be expected with anything that comes from Japan.

 

[Koji]

Well maybe we just don't want a milking process to begin making fans feel more like dollar bills than actual people. Don't you start Koji, compared to all thing that have been done to FFVII(spin-offs and pure hatred of 7) certain FFIX fans don't want it to go down the same road. You and I have already addressed that issue. :closedeyes:

I'm not saying its a bad thing to freeze FF9 where it is, and leave it at that, but then FF9 fans who want that shouldnt complain that FF7 is getting too much attention.

 

[SuperEclipse]

I'm not saying its a bad thing to freeze FF9 where it is, and leave it at that, but then FF9 fans who want that shouldnt complain that FF7 is getting too much attention.

Vivi was ruined..

Thats why pissed me off about it.. and I'm happy there not touching FFIX.. I'd be pissed if Square started to milk FFIX.

i think they should include more orginal ff worlds like ff1, ff4, ff5(worlds) they would be good and maybe make people want to but the older ff games.

No, they don't need to add anymore in.. If anything they need to take them out..

Plus Vivi and Setzer was ruined. So I don't want to see anyone more good FF characters ruined..

 

[Darth Seraphim]

Well for Setzer, i think that they could have used him in a different way... but as for personallity he was more of a cocky heart throb type character, and i do think they gave him the right attitude. So i wouldnt say that Setzer was completely ruined either i mainly think that they could have used him in a context that would better fit his personallity.

 

[Sir Jecht]

I'm not saying its a bad thing to freeze FF9 where it is, and leave it at that, but then FF9 fans who want that shouldnt complain that FF7 is getting too much attention.

Why shouldn't they complain? I mea- you know what just forget it. You know where I stand..

Well that may be with most of the fans that look for darker loner characters. but since KH is a disney based game there are people who look for the cute naive little kid type characters. so in that aspect there will be a boost in what those people see in Vivi. Most people who play KH are usually Female or they are younger. The disney aspect of the game draws a crowd that would except vivi and sence his character wasnt ever meant to be a Cold dark loner of a character he draws more on the Cute naive kid who stumbles on himself and has a big heart and potential hidden underneath that pointy hat. Kingdom hearts was never meant to be an overly dark game anyway and its audience draws on a wider range then just the teenage male who looks for the cool character with the shady past. If any game would be most excepting of a character like Vivi Kingdom hearts would be it. Plus thats how the game was created and the game has been established for its cross over of FF with disney. So i doubt that there will be any change in the format. Plus its final fantasy's cameos that helps bring in the big bucks for squenix. No matter how much the little guy complains the big brother always gets his way. plus this is straying from my original point. Vivi's personallity was portraid accurately

But what about the FFIX fans! This is what this was really about, the fans of IX were (and might still be) outraged by the portrayal of Vivi, nearly every other FF character in KH is shown as a "awesome" or at least somewhat entertaining/interesting (even Yuffie..sorta) but VI and IX got a now flamboyant/ might be gay Setzer and weak little Vivi Dx Your telling me that what I stated isn't a problem? I'm not saying that everyone who plays KH is some dude who likes dark themed shit, but when you show a beloved character like Vivi as just a weak pushover then you are going to get some people mad. Vivi was one of those characters that you just can't throw into KH and expect it to go well since there are many layers to Vivi, since in KH everyone is just shown as they are in a nutshell the actual nut itself is eclipsed by this misrepresentation of the character so their true selves (in Vivi, Sezter,Yuffie and Tifa's case) aren't shown. I would much rather a character not be know at all instead of them being misrepresented and shown in only one perspective.

KH was not intended for a deep character like Vivi it was intended for idiotic, lackluster and simple characters like it's dear main hero Sora. Hell Vivi had more depth in just 8hrs of game play than Sora did in 3 games.

The only thing really is his high over exagerated voice but thats to be expected with anything that comes from Japan.

Not every kid from Japan sounds like a 6-year old girl...and nor should Vivi. I'm not saying he should have a manly voice of course but damn it make him at least sound like a boy so people won't get confused. This isn't Japan it's America...(at least where I am now it is)

You know I wonder if this whole argument is completely off topic..hm

 

[thejoeunit]

how come when sephiroth is introduced sora is like hoo r u? he fought em in the first one!!!

 

[Koji]

^I wondered the same thing. Maybe it was based of the original KH1 which was released in Japan with no Sephiroth.

 

[Destiny's End]

^I wondered the same thing. Maybe it was based of the original KH1 which was released in Japan with no Sephiroth.

That explains why they go to go to Disney Castle in their version of Kingdom Hearts and we didn't, yet they got to finally fight Sephiroth in KH: Final Mix, and Final Mix never came to the US. I don't mind the Japenese talk, just have English Subtitles and I'm good.

 

[Koji]

That explains why they go to go to Disney Castle in their version of Kingdom Hearts and we didn't, yet they got to finally fight Sephiroth in KH: Final Mix, and Final Mix never came to the US. I don't mind the Japenese talk, just have English Subtitles and I'm good.

I dont think they were actually able to go to Disney Castle. I'm pretty sure it was only in a promo trailer. But yeah, that's why they got KHFM, because the NA version had so many extras. But when the Japanese version gets more than ours, we dont get a Final Mix. :angry:

 

[Yannis]

My opinion about Cloud´s and Sephiroth´s part in KH3:

(Sephiroth warps to Sora and throws Cloud´s broken sword to ground.)
Sora: Sephiroth!
Sephiroth: You again___Let´s fight to the death!
(battle begins!)