Do you think Aqua is overrated???

[Oracle Spockanort]

In my opinion, they should did everything they wanted (including Atlantica) in one game (Birth By Sleep).

You don't even know how long BBSv2 has been planned and you are already saying it should have been done in one game. For all we know, BBSv2 has been in Nomura's head since the start of BBS development. We already know he wanted to make a game based in the RoD since the beginning, this is the perfect opportunity for that.


And on Aqua, now while you say she is overrated, I think she is probably underrated by her many fans. They praise her fighting skills and ability to care for both of her friends (which Kairi only does half of the time, and only for the sake of Sora and not so much for Riku. Kairi-Riku interaction is based on her sleeping and him carrying her around and both vying for Sora's attention. Aqua cares equally for both of her friends...I'd have to say she is more of the Sora in the TAV trio...but that is neither here nor there) but they never pay attention to her failings. She is biased towards the Light, and her opinion is easily swayed by the words of other people.

I think that is why I like her more than Kairi and Xion (while Xion is third on my list, Namine and Aqua share first and second place, and Kairi is at the very bottom with the songs from Atlantica, Ice Cream Beat, and Vexen's creepy eye.) She isn't made to look perfect, but she definitely tries her hardest for her friends.

And on the points you made in your OP:

1) Kairi does not know how to fight. You'd think she'd know because she is best friends with two fighters, but there is no evidence she knows how to fight. Her swinging a Keyblade (and missing) at Heartless no more shows she knows how to fight than the brief time we saw her on DI in KH1. And in comparison to Xion and Aqua, she would have to be the weakest fighter in the series.

2) I like Xion, but I can definitely argue that she barely knew how to fight or use her Keyblade properly until after spending time with Roxas and slowly collecting Sora's memories. And I can also argue that her character is a deus ex machina when she 1-hit KO'd Xigbar. But again, that is neither here nor there. My point is that she also had to grow to gain her power, while we already knew Aqua was trained by time the events of BBS start.

3) We have no idea that Aqua is going to be the main character. We most likely will be playing this game with scenarios like the first BBS and with the secret ending, it would appear to be Mickey and Riku and possibly Kairi though unlikely.

4) Not many care about a game with Kairi as the main character. She is such an underdeveloped character that it would be better to develop her in the story before branching out and giving her a game, or her own scenario.

5) This is definitely not hyping up Aqua. If anything, this is milking the entire series as a whole.

 

[Smile]

We already know he wanted to make a game based in the RoD since the beginning, this is the perfect opportunity for that.

Which is why I think it's likely both Mickey and Riku'll be in it as shown in the secret ending D: They don't have enough substance to have their own game there (and lord knows Nomura somehow keeps away from making Mickey a proper playable protagonist, at least up to not) so Aqua being there gives them the best chance to go about it.

And on Aqua, now while you say she is overrated, I think she is probably underrated by her many fans.

UGH, I love you for this T_T <3 so much. This is a problem many people have with their favorite characters.

Aqua cares equally for both of her friends...I'd have to say she is more of the Sora in the TAV trio...

With Ven being the Kairi with his obsession to Terra and Terra being the Riku, derp. (so that's where Roxas got the Xion-obsession from...)

She is biased towards the Light, and her opinion is easily swayed by the words of other people.

True. That's a part of her that I can like when it's just me and the game. I also think that she has gender issues. The Coliseum shows it more but I think it's not unthinkable that it was a problem in LoD as well. She's kind of insecure, imo.

She isn't made to look perfect, but she definitely tries her hardest for her friends.

What I'm irked with personally is that Aqua didn't realize the damage she herself caused, which is what made me like Riku, for instance, and part of why I cherish Sora - imo, he's guilt tripping over locking Riku up in the RoD. But Aqua still believed blindly in Terra to the bitter end which is touching, but leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Granted, BBS wasn't supposed to bring closure to anything, which is why I'm actually kind of excited to see how they'd develop her in BBSv2.

1) Kairi does not know how to fight. You'd think she'd know because she is best friends with two fighters, but there is no evidence she knows how to fight. Her swinging a Keyblade (and missing) at Heartless no more shows she knows how to fight than the brief time we saw her on DI in KH1. And in comparison to Xion and Aqua, she would have to be the weakest fighter in the series.

To be petty, Riku missed a bit as well. But with him you can argue it was to not get too far away from Kairi because if push came to shove, he'd have to protect her.

4) Not many care about a game with Kairi as the main character. She is such an underdeveloped character that it would be better to develop her in the story before branching out and giving her a game, or her own scenario.

True that. Especially seeing how to get her own scenario, she'd have to be a fighter. Which she isn't, neither physically nor magically. And going through her training arc inside the scenario just sounds like a waste of time.
It's like how in CoM, the reason it wasn't a numbered title despite Sora being a protagonist is that it wasn't so much his scenario as it was Namine's. But being the non-combatant and a hostage on top of that, we had the story told from Sora's pov. Most of the scenes were about Namine, however, either from her own pov or Sora talking about her. So she can get her own scenario, but in this manner, with people reflecting about her. That doesn't seem to relate to what was in the BBSFM secret ending though.

 

[Theart]

You don't even know how long BBSv2 has been planned and you are already saying it should have been done in one game. For all we know, BBSv2 has been in Nomura's head since the start of BBS development. We already know he wanted to make a game based in the RoD since the beginning, this is the perfect opportunity for that.

This is a very true statement. Nomura had been mentioning a mystery game for over a year now, so BBSv2 isn't coming out of nowhere. It's been planned for a while now.

And on Aqua, now while you say she is overrated, I think she is probably underrated by her many fans. They praise her fighting skills and ability to care for both of her friends (which Kairi only does half of the time, and only for the sake of Sora and not so much for Riku. Kairi-Riku interaction is based on her sleeping and him carrying her around and both vying for Sora's attention. Aqua cares equally for both of her friends...I'd have to say she is more of the Sora in the TAV trio...but that is neither here nor there) but they never pay attention to her failings. She is biased towards the Light, and her opinion is easily swayed by the words of other people.

QFT. <3

Aqua's easily my favorite character in the series for this reason in that she has both positive and negative qualities. I don't talk about it as much as I do on other, more positive elements about her, but I love that bonds with her, while being strong and caring, isn't always a smooth ride. Overall, this allows her to develop as a character in a wonderful manner. <3

I think that is why I like her more than Kairi and Xion (while Xion is third on my list, Namine and Aqua share first and second place, and Kairi is at the very bottom with the songs from Atlantica, Ice Cream Beat, and Vexen's creepy eye.) She isn't made to look perfect, but she definitely tries her hardest for her friends.

B-but Spockanort, Vexen's creepy eye is so wonderful!!! ;~;

 

[Smile]

Overall, this allows her to develop as a character in a wonderful manner. <3

This I agree with which is why despite her not being my cup of tea, I reserve judgement to later installments. Being flawed and failing is, after all, what turned Riku into the best, most developed character in the series.

 

[Silverslide]

Aqua is not underrated at all, she isn't exactly overrated either. But for some reason the guy fans drool over her, and female fans like her because she is "a female character that kicks butt" when for one, we have already seen 2 of those, and secondly she hasn't accomplished much except arguably let a villian who would have nearly took over the worlds escape. I just don't see why she is so popular.

She borrows many personality traits from Sora, and Kairi, yet she is the most liked out of the trio (though to be fair, all of TAV have recycled personalities)

 

[Theart]

This I agree with which is why despite her not being my cup of tea, I reserve judgement to later installments. Being flawed and failing is, after all, what turned Riku into the best, most developed character in the series.

Indeed. And honestly, I didn't like Riku all that much in KH1 when I was younger. But that changed over time. :3

 

[Smile]

Aqua is not underrated at all, she isn't exactly overrated either. But for some reason the guy fans drool over her, and female fans like her because she is "a female character that kicks butt" when for one

I personally consider that to be underrated, since what the character does have to offer isn't registered with most of the fandom. It's like too many people (ok, fansluts) only love Riku for his looks. I consider him then to be underrated because they ignore what he does have to offer.

we have already seen 2 of those, and secondly she hasn't accomplished much except arguably let a villian who would have nearly took over the worlds escape. I just don't see why she is so popular.

You forgot play into that villain's hands by sticking to her zealous beliefs in the Light, which is part of what let MX even hatch his scheme to begin with, Eraqus's teachings.

She borrows many personality traits from Sora, and Kairi, yet she is the most liked out of the trio (though to be fair, all of TAV have recycled personalities)

I don't really see the Kairi. Hell, imo they even made a jab at Kairi when Ven was so surprised Aqua made him a good luck charm too, as though making even more of an issue out of there being three wayfinders compared to the only one Kairi made. :v

Indeed. And honestly, I didn't like Riku all that much in KH1 when I was younger. But that changed over time. :3

I didn't care about him until XH said that line about Riku's will to be free. Then it all connected like some automatic jigzaw puzzle and everything, everything Riku did in KH1 made sense. I remember when I played that part I stared at the screen, gapping, going "wow... what an amazing character".
And then he developed beyond that and all was lost for me <3 I was inlove.

 

[Ulicies]

Your reasoning based on "OMG people LOOOOVE her so I HAAAATE her" is not valid logic, I believe. You can dislike her all you like based on your own experience with her personality upon playing BBS, but it's ridiculous to hate for the sake of "going against the current," so to speak.

The fact that TAV came before Sora and Riku with the origin as to how things got messed up is validation alone for her existence in Kingdom Hearts. I am very excited to find out more about the RoD, and I think that she's the perfect character to showcase it. She opposes darkness, but will soon find out that it's more complicated than simple anger or hate, as she's stated before.

 

[Silverslide]

I don't really see the Kairi. Hell, imo they even made a jab at Kairi when Ven was so surprised Aqua made him a good luck charm too, as though making even more of an issue out of there being three wayfinders compared to the only one Kairi made. :v

I see it all the time when I play BBS. They even smack us in the face with it by showing a scene with Ven and Aqua that mimicked the scene with Kairi and Sora on DI. But to be fair, all of TAV is modeled around SRK by their personalities, and what happens to them during the story. Hell even their body types.

 

[Taochan]

I really don't think she's perfect or the best character in the KH universe but it was nice to finally have a character, who wasn't a spin off of another character (nobody, heartless, connected by blahblahblah).
Aqua definitely fcuked up but that's part of why I like her. If she was "perfect" I would hate her. :/
I loved her game-play wise, I got really fond of having a magic user and I loved her Barrier.

Also, BBS vol. 2 while not being confirmed, appears to be more than just about Aqua.

 

[Ulicies]

This I agree with which is why despite her not being my cup of tea, I reserve judgement to later installments. Being flawed and failing is, after all, what turned Riku into the best, most developed character in the series.

This is so incredibly true that I don't know where to begin to agree with you. Riku's character development (and sword-fighting style) was the first thing that got me hooked on Kingdom Hearts, second only to the music ^_^

 

[Smile]

She opposes darkness, but will soon find out that it's more complicated than simple anger or hate, as she's stated before.

Why does that sound fami- oh right, Reverse Rebirth. Though I admit it'll be nice to see Aqua come to terms with the Darkness, like Mickey did in R-R thanks to Riku.

I see it all the time when I play BBS. They even smack us in the face with it by showing a scene with Ven and Aqua that mimicked the scene with Kairi and Sora on DI.

Actually, besides the actor placement, that scene was one of the things that screamed out the difference between them. Aqua doesn't tease Ven and Terra as much and is a lot more of a mother figure. Kairi's too insecure and I dare say immature to act like that.

But to be fair, all of TAV is modeled around SRK by their personalities, and what happens to them during the story. Hell even their body types.

I really disagree with this. Ven and Sora aren't identical. Riku and Terra aren't either, beyond basic 'stereotypes'. But if you want to go there eventually they're all the same character (Sora, duh *ggg*)

 

[Silverslide]

Actually, besides the actor placement, that scene was one of the things that screamed out the difference between them. Aqua doesn't tease Ven and Terra as much and is a lot more of a mother figure. Kairi's too insecure and I dare say immature to act like that.

I just want to make this clear. I'm not trying to advocate that TAV are identical to SRK. I just see the similarities that are thrown at us. Kairi is insecure and immature, because...she should be. Kairi is much younger than Aqua is, but Aqua acts like an older Kairi, with Sora splashed in.

I really disagree with this. Ven and Sora aren't identical. Riku and Terra aren't either, beyond basic 'stereotypes'. But if you want to go there eventually they're all the same character (Sora, duh *ggg*)

Ven: His relationship with Terra mirrors Sora's relationship with Terra. He looks up to Terra and admires him the same way Sora admired Riku. Ven/Sora leave their home to find Riku/Terra. They discover that Terra/Riku use darkness. And I shouldn't have to talk about their personalities. They are the same, and it is reinforced by the fact that Ven's heart being in Sora could influence that.

Terra: Do I really have to? Both succumb to the darkness, and become associated with someone evil as they are used to further that evil persons goals. Both eventually become taken over by a form of Xehanort are still fighting to overcome him. You can't even debate otherwise.

Aqua: She actually does somethings that we see in Sora and Kairi. She makes the charms, like Kairi did with Oathkeeper. Her devotion to her friends is very similar to Sora's too. Though she is the most original of the series(literally, since we have kind of seen Terra and Ven already before BBS) she too borrows alot from other characters.

 

[Ronove]

I've always found Aqua to be more of a Sora parallel than a Kairi one myself, but hell, one of the reasons I love Roxas and Xion is because they really are their own characters.

Likewise, I don't think TVA has to really be compared to XAR, or SKR.

 

[Smile]

Ven: His relationship with Terra mirrors Sora's relationship with Terra. He looks up to Terra and admires him the same way Sora admired Riku. Ven/Sora leave their home to find Riku/Terra. They discover that Terra/Riku use darkness. And I shouldn't have to talk about their personalities. They are the same, and it is reinforced by the fact that Ven's heart being in Sora could influence that.

Terra: Do I really have to? Both succumb to the darkness, and become associated with someone evil as they are used to further that evil persons goals. Both eventually become taken over by a form of Xehanort are still fighting to overcome him. You can't even debate otherwise.

I can't because you're talking plot details. The personalities involved don't have to be identical just because of that. Also because of the age differences, SoRi is a different relationship to TerrVen, so the friendships being similar don't really imply similarity in the individuals.

Aqua: She actually does somethings that we see in Sora and Kairi. She makes the charms, like Kairi did with Oathkeeper.

Which is different from Kairi because Kairi made a charm for herself, one looking like Sora. Aqua created a bond between all three friends.

Though she is the most original of the series(literally, since we have kind of seen Terra and Ven already before BBS) she too borrows alot from other characters.

In the sense she's not a complete bastard, but to go the distance to say that they're similar because they care for their friends when if you'd put them in the same situations they'll react differently, well, it's a stretch.

 

[chasespicer056]

Aqua's a deus ex machina? How does she fit that term?

Look, Aqua's no more of a sue than any other KH character (though many of them have sue-like qualities).

She made LOTS of mistakes, including sending terra-xehanort back to the ROL and thus indirectly causing all the chaos in the realm, failing to bring back Terra to her homeworld like Eraqus asked, failing to convince Ven to go back, and getting knocked out by Vanitas & thereby leaving Ven vulnerable.

 

[O a t h keeper]

I think that Aqua is one of the most engaging characters in the series.

From the outset, it was obvious that Terra and Ventus would play pivotal roles because of their obvious connections to Xehanort and Roxas, respectively. And those two were the ones most instrumental in Master Xehanort's plans. And while Terra and Ventus ended up being little more than pawns, Aqua unexpectedly took up the role of the hero at the last second and foiled Xehanort's (immediate) plans.

It's true that she has doubts about Terra and that her overprotectiveness towards her friends sometimes caused more problems than they solved, but up until the very end she had faith in her friends and placed them before herself. And it's because of her belief in them and love for her friends that she was able to destroy the X-blade at all.

And in the end, her sacrifice is truly one of the most tragic events in Kingdom Hearts (probably only second to the entirety of Roxas' life) and it speaks volumes about the trust she places in Terra and how much she values her friends. Really, Aqua is the unsung hero of Kingdom Hearts. She embodies what the series is about just as much as Sora.

 

[Smile]

Aqua's a deus ex machina? How does she fit that term?

For one, her magical powers which come from nowhere but have altered events such as her being the true reason behind Kairi reaching DI, and "suddenly" being empowered in her final fight against Venitas, off the top of my head.

Look, Aqua's no more of a sue than any other KH character

That is to say - that she is a sue. This is KH we're talking about here. I think the biggest differences are in the amounts of character development and levels of activity (two reasons why to me Xion is not a Mary Sue while Kairi, at least in KH2, is).

Aqua unexpectedly took up the role of the hero at the last second and foiled Xehanort's (immediate) plans.

Another reason why she fits the DEM term, lol.

And it's because of her belief in them and love for her friends that she was able to destroy the X-blade at all.

Lord forbids it's because, ya know, Ven smashed the X-Blade by breaking his own Heart into pieces and going into limbo. No no, that had nothing to do with that, did it?
DEM mechanism timing wise.

And in the end, her sacrifice is truly one of the most tragic events in Kingdom Hearts (probably only second to the entirety of Roxas' life)

I find that people judge the level of a tragedy based on their love for a character. I personally didn't see the wow in Roxas's summer vacation coming to an end because despite knowing it was sad, I didn't grow attached to him. Similarly, people burst laughing when Xion fades at the end of Days because they can't care for her.
I can't find Aqua's sacrifice to be that tragic because imo, she brought a lot of it on herself. If anything it was her own odd attempt at redemption, saving Terra from the same Darkness she plunged him into. Maybe if she showed some more remorse that isn't conjecture in BBSv2 I'll find her sacrifice to be more tragic, but ya know? Seeing how Roxas, Namine and Xion have much lower chances of making a comeback, I really have a hard time calling Aqua's sacrifice one of the most tragic in the series. She'll get her happy ending.
Xion, Roxas and Namine's happy endings will most likely include disappearing only with no torment left this time. Hurray. Not.

Really, Aqua is the unsung hero of Kingdom Hearts. She embodies what the series is about just as much as Sora.

KH tl;dr Sora needs to fix what Aqua helped break.

 

[Chuman]

But Kairi sucks. I do think that she (Aqua) is slightly overrated, but she is one of the only two non-annoying Females (Aqua & Xion) in the series. Not counting Kairi's Grandma.

 

[Haeralis]

Yes.

Spoiler Show

She single handedly brought chaos and despair to the world of KH due to the fact that she saved Xehanort.