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Do you think Aqua is overrated???



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Delsan

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Fuck no. She's the best female character in the series just above Larxene. She actually cares about both her friends and does her best to save them. She has some flaws, but I still like her better than Kairi and Xion.
 

Smile

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Yes.

She single handedly brought chaos and despair to the world of KH due to the fact that she saved Xehanort

Riku fell to Darkness in KH1 and basically ushered the universe to Darkness. Yet quite a few of us see in him the best character in the series.
Granted, I don't think Aqua should be praised for saving Terranort, for all of her compassion and concern for her friend. But that's why I keep saying I'm withholding judgement until later in the series.
Riku did get his Reverse-Rebirth, I'm hoping for something similar with BBSv2.
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

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For one, her magical powers which come from nowhere but have altered events such as her being the true reason behind Kairi reaching DI, and "suddenly" being empowered in her final fight against Venitas, off the top of my head.

One, the spell Only got her safetly to the islands, we don't know how the spell worked. The X-blade (if you even finsihed the game) who broken when Both Aqua/Ventus destoryd it from the final boss



That is to say - that she is a sue. This is KH we're talking about here. I think the biggest differences are in the amounts of character development and levels of activity (two reasons why to me Xion is not a Mary Sue while Kairi, at least in KH2, is).



Another reason why she fits the DEM term, lol.



Lord forbids it's because, ya know, Ven smashed the X-Blade by breaking his own Heart into pieces and going into limbo. No no, that had nothing to do with that, did it?
DEM mechanism timing wise.



I find that people judge the level of a tragedy based on their love for a character. I personally didn't see the wow in Roxas's summer vacation coming to an end because despite knowing it was sad, I didn't grow attached to him. Similarly, people burst laughing when Xion fades at the end of Days because they can't care for her.
I can't find Aqua's sacrifice to be that tragic because imo, she brought a lot of it on herself. If anything it was her own odd attempt at redemption, saving Terra from the same Darkness she plunged him into. Maybe if she showed some more remorse that isn't conjecture in BBSv2 I'll find her sacrifice to be more tragic, but ya know? Seeing how Roxas, Namine and Xion have much lower chances of making a comeback, I really have a hard time calling Aqua's sacrifice one of the most tragic in the series. She'll get her happy ending.
Xion, Roxas and Namine's happy endings will most likely include disappearing only with no torment left this time. Hurray. Not.



KH tl;dr Sora needs to fix what Aqua helped break.

Xion's the real sue, Kairi and Aqua aren't. Play Days completely like I did. Aqua did what she thought was right, any of us would do it oif we were in her shoes. We don't need Aqua/BBS bashing


I think that Aqua is one of the most engaging characters in the series.

From the outset, it was obvious that Terra and Ventus would play pivotal roles because of their obvious connections to Xehanort and Roxas, respectively. And those two were the ones most instrumental in Master Xehanort's plans. And while Terra and Ventus ended up being little more than pawns, Aqua unexpectedly took up the role of the hero at the last second and foiled Xehanort's (immediate) plans.

It's true that she has doubts about Terra and that her overprotectiveness towards her friends sometimes caused more problems than they solved, but up until the very end she had faith in her friends and placed them before herself. And it's because of her belief in them and love for her friends that she was able to destroy the X-blade at all.

And in the end, her sacrifice is truly one of the most tragic events in Kingdom Hearts (probably only second to the entirety of Roxas' life) and it speaks volumes about the trust she places in Terra and how much she values her friends. Really, Aqua is the unsung hero of Kingdom Hearts. She embodies what the series is about just as much as Sora.

Thank you, Aqua is a good character... Sora is just a glory hog and Xion's a sue

Aqua's a deus ex machina? How does she fit that term?

Look, Aqua's no more of a sue than any other KH character (though many of them have sue-like qualities).

She made LOTS of mistakes, including sending terra-xehanort back to the ROL and thus indirectly causing all the chaos in the realm, failing to bring back Terra to her homeworld like Eraqus asked, failing to convince Ven to go back, and getting knocked out by Vanitas & thereby leaving Ven vulnerable.

I agreee with this

I really don't think she's perfect or the best character in the KH universe but it was nice to finally have a character, who wasn't a spin off of another character (nobody, heartless, connected by blahblahblah).
Aqua definitely fcuked up but that's part of why I like her. If she was "perfect" I would hate her. :/
I loved her game-play wise, I got really fond of having a magic user and I loved her Barrier.

Also, BBS vol. 2 while not being confirmed, appears to be more than just about Aqua.

Agree again. Aqua and Kairi aren't perfect, they have flaws like all hunan beings. I like Aqua for her love for her friends and Kairi the laatter. If loving your friends to fight/serch for them is wrong, then what is right?
 

Theart

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Xion's the real sue, Kairi and Aqua aren't. Play Days completely like I did. Aqua did what she thought was right, any of us would do it oif we were in her shoes. We don't need Aqua/BBS bashing

Except that Smile isn't bashing Aqua; she's merely presenting the flaws she sees in Aqua as a character. And she DID play Days in its entirety. She's entitled to her opinion. =/

Thank you, Aqua is a good character... Sora is just a glory hog and Xion's a sue

While I agree with you on Aqua and Xion, Sora isn't a glory hog. He does what he does for his friends. That's actually pretty selfless of him.

Agree again. Aqua and Kairi aren't perfect, they have flaws like all hunan beings. I like Aqua for her love for her friends and Kairi the latter. If loving your friends to fight/search for them is wrong, then what is right?

Huge difference between Aqua and Kairi is that Aqua was written very well, while Kairi was, at best, written mediocre. Script-writing has a huge role to play in these sorts of things. That's the difference between character flaws which make the character more human (Aqua) and just flat out bad writing (Kairi).
 

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Except that Smile isn't bashing Aqua; she's merely presenting the flaws she sees in Aqua as a character. And she DID play Days in its entirety. She's entitled to her opinion. =/

<3
And let the record show I played Days not once but three times in full, once on Proud, once on Normal for the Riku-Xion relation theory, and another on easy for site assignments xD

While I agree with you on Aqua and Xion, Sora isn't a glory hog. He does what he does for his friends. That's actually pretty selfless of him.

I understand where some people are coming from saying this. As much as I love joking about "JesuSora", it is kind of obnoxious how much they're whoring him out, both in Blank Points as well as Re:Coded's Secret Ending. They basically rule out every other character in the story (Riku's barely an after thought? What the hell, Mickey? So much for your special bond).
Not saying Sora himself is a gloryhog, but how he's presented is the problem here, much like how a lot of people who read the Days novels (myself included), how to put it? You rage, you lose, at Xion. Presentation has a lot to do with how a character is perceived and, well, if I could be bothered with making a demotivator I'd put Xion and Sora pics in there and write
Character Presentation
You're doing it wrong

Huge difference between Aqua and Kairi is that Aqua was written very well, while Kairi was, at best, written mediocre. Script-writing has a huge role to play in these sorts of things. That's the difference between character flaws which make the character more human (Aqua) and just flat out bad writing (Kairi).

Which is why I keep saying that if Kairi was intentionally ignoring Riku, I could accept it because she'd be fulfilling her role, not backstabbing supposedly being his best friend.
Aqua, as flawed as she is, is doing exactly what she's supposed to do, with my problem resting mostly in the game's quality which I found to be not so satisfactory, less so the chara herself.
 

Sign

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tl;dr - Aqua's scenario having been written last did more harm than good and BBS' character development quite a bit to be desired.

Thank you, Aqua is a good character... Sora is just a glory hog and Xion's a sue

Oi, just because you hate Sora and Xion but adore Aqua doesn't mean everyone does. Might want to stop going around and stating it like fact before you piss people off.
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

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For one, her magical powers which come from nowhere but have altered events such as her being the true reason behind Kairi reaching DI, and "suddenly" being empowered in her final fight against Venitas, off the top of my head.



That is to say - that she is a sue. This is KH we're talking about here. I think the biggest differences are in the amounts of character development and levels of activity (two reasons why to me Xion is not a Mary Sue while Kairi, at least in KH2, is).



Another reason why she fits the DEM term, lol.



Lord forbids it's because, ya know, Ven smashed the X-Blade by breaking his own Heart into pieces and going into limbo. No no, that had nothing to do with that, did it?
DEM mechanism timing wise.



I find that people judge the level of a tragedy based on their love for a character. I personally didn't see the wow in Roxas's summer vacation coming to an end because despite knowing it was sad, I didn't grow attached to him. Similarly, people burst laughing when Xion fades at the end of Days because they can't care for her.
I can't find Aqua's sacrifice to be that tragic because imo, she brought a lot of it on herself. If anything it was her own odd attempt at redemption, saving Terra from the same Darkness she plunged him into. Maybe if she showed some more remorse that isn't conjecture in BBSv2 I'll find her sacrifice to be more tragic, but ya know? Seeing how Roxas, Namine and Xion have much lower chances of making a comeback, I really have a hard time calling Aqua's sacrifice one of the most tragic in the series. She'll get her happy ending.
Xion, Roxas and Namine's happy endings will most likely include disappearing only with no torment left this time. Hurray. Not.



KH tl;dr Sora needs to fix what Aqua helped break.

I think that Aqua is one of the most engaging characters in the series.

From the outset, it was obvious that Terra and Ventus would play pivotal roles because of their obvious connections to Xehanort and Roxas, respectively. And those two were the ones most instrumental in Master Xehanort's plans. And while Terra and Ventus ended up being little more than pawns, Aqua unexpectedly took up the role of the hero at the last second and foiled Xehanort's (immediate) plans.

It's true that she has doubts about Terra and that her overprotectiveness towards her friends sometimes caused more problems than they solved, but up until the very end she had faith in her friends and placed them before herself. And it's because of her belief in them and love for her friends that she was able to destroy the X-blade at all.

And in the end, her sacrifice is truly one of the most tragic events in Kingdom Hearts (probably only second to the entirety of Roxas' life) and it speaks volumes about the trust she places in Terra and how much she values her friends. Really, Aqua is the unsung hero of Kingdom Hearts. She embodies what the series is about just as much as Sora.

Aqua's a deus ex machina? How does she fit that term?

Look, Aqua's no more of a sue than any other KH character (though many of them have sue-like qualities).

She made LOTS of mistakes, including sending terra-xehanort back to the ROL and thus indirectly causing all the chaos in the realm, failing to bring back Terra to her homeworld like Eraqus asked, failing to convince Ven to go back, and getting knocked out by Vanitas & thereby leaving Ven vulnerable.

I really don't think she's perfect or the best character in the KH universe but it was nice to finally have a character, who wasn't a spin off of another character (nobody, heartless, connected by blahblahblah).
Aqua definitely fcuked up but that's part of why I like her. If she was "perfect" I would hate her. :/
I loved her game-play wise, I got really fond of having a magic user and I loved her Barrier.

Also, BBS vol. 2 while not being confirmed, appears to be more than just about Aqua.

Indeed. And honestly, I didn't like Riku all that much in KH1 when I was younger. But that changed over time. :3

Except that Smile isn't bashing Aqua; she's merely presenting the flaws she sees in Aqua as a character. And she DID play Days in its entirety. She's entitled to her opinion. =/



While I agree with you on Aqua and Xion, Sora isn't a glory hog. He does what he does for his friends. That's actually pretty selfless of him.



Huge difference between Aqua and Kairi is that Aqua was written very well, while Kairi was, at best, written mediocre. Script-writing has a huge role to play in these sorts of things. That's the difference between character flaws which make the character more human (Aqua) and just flat out bad writing (Kairi).

I know that, but I just play the games, but if a character is not good, than thee game either rushed or bad (KH2-rushed) (Days-Bad). I'm talkinjg about thee OP, this person only open this dissicussion because she hates Aqua, remember the last thread about this? And of Rikui; a good character he is, but never forget what he did in KH1. And don't quote this, I'm not good at these kind of disscussions, But I'm going to go before this reached 50 pages
 

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This to the ends of the universe :\ I mean, it's not like even the game tried painting her out to be some righteous goddess; she was pointed out to be in the wrong three times I can recall, even four if I want to count in Neverland. Aqua's whole scenario is about how her beliefs are too strict and she needs to give people the benefit of the doubt, and by not doing so she helped MX progress his plans by pushing Terra further into Darkness and leave Ven alone to run around.

tl;dr - Aqua's scenario having been written last did more harm than good and BBS' character development quite a bit to be desired.

I agree. When I was playing Terra and Ven's scenarios, I really wanted to know what got Aqua to behave the way she did in Radiant Garden, and what got her to still sing the same tune in the Keyblade Graveyard. When I got to her scenario, however, all I got were Disney Worlds which, if they weren't useless, were contradictory to what we did have in the plot worlds where she started to believe in Ven and was basically obsessed with Terra being alright and Light-filled and what not. :\
It almost feels like BBS was written by too many people, with one group in charge of LoD-RG-KG and another on the rest of the game @A@;
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

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tl;dr - Aqua's scenario having been written last did more harm than good and BBS' character development left a lot to be desired.

(Hmmm, I seem to have become significantly less of an Aqua fan than I originally was.)



Oi, just because you hate Sora and Xion but adore Aqua doesn't mean everyone does. Might want to stop going around and stating it like fact before you piss people off.

Um, I don't hate Sora. Sorry, the whole JesuSora thing in the FCs in getting to me
 

Maxyli138

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Overrated? Not really. She's a strong character who cares deeply for her friends ad will do anything to save them, which isn't too different from any other KH protaganist. I personally felt she was more in the background in BbS, just there to save her friends when they were in trouble, so why shouldn't she get a story that gives her more spotlight? And BbS Volume 2 was made more to expand the series as a whole, not just Aqua. She probably won't be the only main character anyway.

And seriously Kairi will NEVER be as good as a fighter as Aqua or Xion. Having her own game will bring destruction to us all.
 

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And seriously Kairi will NEVER be as good as a fighter as Aqua or Xion.

Meh. Really not sure about that. Keep in mind Aqua's been training for several good years, and Xion got the 'cheat sheet' which were Roxas's and Sora's (and Ven's [and Riku's]) Memories. Kairi can become a fighter, but she needs to start practicing and she needs to put her whole into it. Riku and Sora at the start of KH1 has had a lifetime of play-fighting with each other and Tidus, Wakka and Selphie. That's a lot of experience which let them develop their own fighting styles (well, Sora at least, Riku has Vanitas's stance...), let them build their bodies (hello, Riku <3~) and taught them how to fight opponents that both use various fighting styles (Sora, Riku and Tidus with "swords", Selphie with a whip and Wakka with... projectiles? Lol) as well as come at them im a group (TSW combo). Then they had KH1, CoM/R-R and KH2 with Days also exping up Riku to improve further to the kind of warriors that could take Xemnas+broken KH at the end of KH2.
Compared to them, Kairi is light years away. So it's not that it's impossible, just that they'll have to either invest a lot in training her, go a different route (mage utilizing Light is a good option, Minnie can train her in Disney Castle where she'll also be safe) or - Deus Ex Machina her (which I hope they won't do *looks at KH2's balcony jump*)

tl;dr Kairi can be a good fighter, she's just painfully behind... about everyone else in the series. Maybe other than Olette.
 

Chuman

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Meh. Really not sure about that. Keep in mind Aqua's been training for several good years, and Xion got the 'cheat sheet' which were Roxas's and Sora's (and Ven's [and Riku's]) Memories. Kairi can become a fighter, but she needs to start practicing and she needs to put her whole into it. Riku and Sora at the start of KH1 has had a lifetime of play-fighting with each other and Tidus, Wakka and Selphie. That's a lot of experience which let them develop their own fighting styles (well, Sora at least, Riku has Vanitas's stance...), let them build their bodies (hello, Riku <3~) and taught them how to fight opponents that both use various fighting styles (Sora, Riku and Tidus with "swords", Selphie with a whip and Wakka with... projectiles? Lol) as well as come at them im a group (TSW combo). Then they had KH1, CoM/R-R and KH2 with Days also exping up Riku to improve further to the kind of warriors that could take Xemnas+broken KH at the end of KH2.
Compared to them, Kairi is light years away. So it's not that it's impossible, just that they'll have to either invest a lot in training her, go a different route (mage utilizing Light is a good option, Minnie can train her in Disney Castle where she'll also be safe) or - Deus Ex Machina her (which I hope they won't do *looks at KH2's balcony jump*)

tl;dr Kairi can be a good fighter, she's just painfully behind... about everyone else in the series. Maybe other than Olette.

What does tl;dr stand for? Am i missing something important?
 

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<3
And let the record show I played Days not once but three times in full, once on Proud, once on Normal for the Riku-Xion relation theory, and another on easy for site assignments xD.

*Twitches*

Don't worry, Chrono. It's personal opinion. Nothing to get worked up on. Just calm down. Just calm down. *rocks back and forth*

On my opinion on Aqua. I do like her as a character, but I have to say, from what I read. Her being the main character of BBS, her potential isn't fulfilled. I guess Birth by Sleep Volume 2 is likely going to solve that, since well... it's been announced in that secret trailer and Aqua has a way to go, what with seeing those words like Enchanted Dominon in the realm of darkness

Other than that. Birth by Sleep for what it is, is a good game story-wise. Sure, there are characters who fates were predictable or weren't 'drawn out', but it manage to achieve the simplicity of KH for new fans to get into without being confused by continuity. Sure it has problem of its own with the order of world continuity, but the story is understandable and easy to get into.

And for that, I appreciate. I don't appreciate the storyline that just drowns you with information and doesn't know subtlety.

Now for me, if you ask me which game I like story-wise? Birth by Sleep far. ReCoded only worth it for those key scenes like the secret ending for one and 358/2 Days has a messy storyline that has pacing issues.

I still don't see why people enjoy 358/2 Days. Heck, I still don't see how people enjoy KH2, but they do. But then, these people I won't understand anyway and would be added to 'Death by Guilotine' in my Hitler idealistic world, so not my problem.

btw, smile? Guillotine or Gas?
 

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ReCoded only worth it for those key scenes like the secret ending

I think it depends on what you're looking for. Personally I appreciate Re:Coded because of all the character insight and development which is also what I liked about Days and ironically, found lacking in BBS. I suppose the good old KH1 and CoM charm that balances plot and character isn't going to come back so easily.
 

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I remember one of the interview stated that Aqua is actually a by-stander, I mean she had no base in KH's story.
I wouldn't say she is over-rated, but what I watch from BBS, she is having major role in the story.
I don't know who is suppose to be main character in the story but mostly is Ven, because of his connection to Sora.
Aqua simply bring problem to herself. Don't get me wrong, i'm Aqua's fan
But sometimes, some story plot may need her to developed well like Secret Episode, only she stay in RoD. It will be weird if is Terra and Ven. Since one had asleep and another had been taken over.
I think they will give Kairi a character development in the future game, she may learn how to wield the keyblade and in future she may help Sora.
As for another female character like Xion and Namine. Xion should have been more developed, as she play a role on Sora's memories.
While Namine, she helps Sora a lot as a Nobody...

As for BBS vol.2, I don't think they'll just developed in Aqua's story but maybe Riku and Mickey.
 

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I don't know who is suppose to be main character in the story but mostly is Ven, because of his connection to Sora.

Actually, Nomura named Aqua as the true protagonist of BBS, which adds up with her still being 'functional' at the end of it. It also ties in with BBSv2.

I think they will give Kairi a character development in the future game

I think we've been saying this for like, what, 6, 7 installments? And what we got was Days where without Xion, they wouldn't have even mentioned Kairi, Re:coded where she truly had a mandatory mentioning, and BBS which was by far the most insightful, but also stood in complete and utter contradiction to anything they did with her in KH2.
I'm not hopeful.

she may learn how to wield the keyblade and in future she may help Sora.

I actually prefer her as a Keybladeless Wielder. She's a PoH and SoRi's Home representative. I don't mind them explaining how she could use Destiny's Embrace in KH2 or have her be used as X-Blade material, but please, no Keyblade.

As for another female character like Xion and Namine. Xion should have been more developed, as she play a role on Sora's memories.
While Namine, she helps Sora a lot as a Nobody...

Ironically they're both well developed and established. They both came to realize sacrifices must be made and came to cherish other people over their own selves, though Namine seemed to be more self inflicting as opposed to Xion who tried opposing that fate up to the bitter end when she saw she had no choice because she was hurting Roxas.
 

Crystal

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Actually, Nomura named Aqua as the true protagonist of BBS, which adds up with her still being 'functional' at the end of it. It also ties in with BBSv2.

Yeah. I'm suppose previously the main character should have been Ven but now is Aqua.
Because she can continue the following story like she is in RoD, and connected the story to KH1 or what.





I actually prefer her as a Keybladeless Wielder. She's a PoH and SoRi's Home representative. I don't mind them explaining how she could use Destiny's Embrace in KH2 or have her be used as X-Blade material, but please, no Keyblade.

Used as X-blade material? Yeah, since she is having a pure light.



Ironically they're both well developed and established. They both came to realize sacrifices must be made and came to cherish other people over their own selves, though Namine seemed to be more self inflicting as opposed to Xion who tried opposing that fate up to the bitter end when she saw she had no choice because she was hurting Roxas.

Xion was just appear in Days, I hope she having some scene in the future game.
 

Sign

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Yeah. I'm suppose previously the main character should have been Ven but now is Aqua.

No, not really. Ven only seemed like the main character during the game's promotion because he always had the most screentime in their little teasers and he was in the center for most of their promotional artwork (primarily because he's the most recognizable of the three). But I've always saw Aqua as the game's true main character in terms of her being the hero, whereas Terra's the main character because the story does kind of revolve around him.
 
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