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Circumstances of Lost/Gained Faith



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Nutari

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I've been here for quite a long time. I no longer particularly care about Kingdom Hearts, but I care about the people here, even if I don't know them. I also have noticed that over the years, a lot of you guys have had your views transformed, or outright changed. So, I think it would make some decent discussion to talk about the things that either lead you to your faith in Christ, or another religion, or the walking away from a religion, or from Christianity.

I suppose I will start: I grew up in a Christian home. Albeit a chaotic one, as my parents worked for private school campus, consisting of group homes, called Mooseheart. My parents did their best while trying to raise me, and 10 troubled boys. At about 11 or 12 my best friend of many years, exposed me to porn. From there my faith really spiraled and I felt as if I was being forced to believe, so I just went along with the program. From then on, I was addicted to porn. So, after a few years of depression, and identity crisis, we moved to a small town in Illinois. It wasn't until my junior year of High School that I really started to believe again. Ever since, I've been struggling with lust, and porn, but now I'm at a Christian university, and my faith is growing like I never thought it would. I'm making strides in the direction of freedom and healing, and I'm finally able to look at girls as people instead of objects these days. Sometimes I can't stop myself from falling into that trap, but yeah.

How about you guys?

Also, a video (very short one) that I enjoy watching.

[video=youtube;i8gexdS_lPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8gexdS_lPU[/video]
 

Pinwheel

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Interesting thread you've got here! I suppose I'll go the other direction and speak with how I've went (if you can call it that) to atheism.

To put this forth from the beginning, I wouldn't say I ever really strongly held faith. There were a few nights on and off as a teenager I felt I really was into Christianity and stuff. My hometown is pretty strongly Christian, so it was hard to even consider being anything other than that growing up, being around only people who believed in a higher power. I'd sometimes pray at night and try and thank God for things and how they were going and stuff, but I really wasn't too into it I'd say. God definitely wasn't something always on my mind.

I'd had a bit of a rough patch in highschool with a few things going on in my life that aren't all really relevant, but I just very basically prayed to God to help me get through things. I'd soon after that witnessed religious debates in chats and whatnot about things said in the bible, atheism, creation, evolution, etc. It soon occurred to me that many of my personal views on life really didn't align too well with the bible, homosexuality especially, given I was (and am) very for the rights of homosexuals. I was very curious to say the least at the time, so I thought it'd be interesting to read up on a few arguments in favor of both sides.

I'd found a few videos of debates with Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins. Needless to say, I was impressed. I wasn't really taking their arguments to heart, as I really didn't want to not believe, but I certainly listened to what they had to say. It took quite a bit of time, but after awhile I realized that the people I saw debating in favor of Christianity or evolution and such just felt extremely silly to me. It occurred to me in the middle of a video with Christopher Hitchens(whose book I had actually purchased at the time) that I was actually arguing in favor of him than the person he was debating. Apologies, I can't remember the man's name.

So yeah, it's not exactly much of a sudden or shocking experience I took, more of a studying my own beliefs and realizing where I actually stood. Sorry if I worded this poorly, by the way!
 

zachen

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I am honestly not sure where I stand on everything. I was raised as a catholic, but I don't really practice it. I believe in God, I am just not really comfortable in sitting in the masses while someone preaches to me on how to live my life and what to believe. I am kinda stuck in the middle right now. I just really can't stand people trying to convert me to either side honestly.
 
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My parents raised me as Roman Catholic. I did the entire communion, confirmation, etc thing. I just never really believed too heavily in there being some higher power. I don't think I ever actually had a moment where I was like "yeah, I don't believe in god, glad I got that out of the way." If I did I certainly don't remember it. Aside from Crohn's Disease and winning the worst genes game I was dealt a pretty good hand so it's not like it was "man how could this happen to me. there must not be a god. im a good person w/e." I can say for a certainty Richard Dawkins, Hitchens, etc had no part in having me make up my mind. Because I find that ridiculous.

rambly but whatever diddly u
 
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Ehres

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No Muslim reverts? Okay.

Tbh, I've dabbled in a bit of everything Abrahamic really. IIRC, England is mostly C of E though we have a few Catholics but there's not that much difference between them. I think Catholics hold the Pope as the head of the Church while Anglicans hold it as the Queen? Whatever, so when I was younger I went to a C of E school. Every Wednesday we had prayer/hymns with our own priest and on Sunday we had this marching band followed by a church service with our own private church. I never really took stock in it because we weren't practising religion at home. I just had to do it for school.

After losing my bf when I was 16 I went through a major bad patch. I had spent my younger teen years doing a lot of bad stuff I shouldn't and had the worst time at secondary school so at that point I was really emotionally detached and really fucking lonely. So I just kind of started thinking about God I guess. Anyway, that lead me to some stuff about Judaism which I was interested in. I wore kippah for a few months and started reading Torah but idk, I think I was so desperately in need of guidance because I was going through a lot of shit at that point that I was sort of forcing myself into it. Plus the fact that where I was living the Jewish community was sooo xenophobic so I had literally nobody to guide me.

At this point I had been living w/ my Muslim friends for a few years at uni and we were bffs so we talked about a lot of things. Religion was just one of them. I would talk about being Jewish, they would talk about being Muslim as well as their culture (majorly Pakistani/Indian) which of course has a lot of Islamic influences in it so, you know, it felt like they had a really good sort of solid, concrete support system behind them? And idk, a lot of weird stuff happened that lead me to convert to Islam but every day it feels like even though I have my own problems w/ myself and w/ the way the world is, I do feel protected you know? Like I feel loved and guarded by something other than the physical world around me.

Basically what happened was I was still practising Judaism at this point but I would be deeply into the Asian scene since my friends were Pakistani/Indian and I was living in Manchester at the time which has a huge Asian population. So we would go to the Asian places (the Curry Mile/Wilmslow Road for those who don't know it) and like 95% of my friend circle was Asian/Muslim so I had a lot of positive influences and support even though they knew I was practising Judaism. Anyway so that was really helpful with what I was going through. Anyway so I started to realise that I was having this weird sensation inside like... I would read Torah and just get bored? Like I wouldn't care? But when I read Quran, it felt like it was written for me?

And naturally my support structure was absolutely amazing in Islam. I had so many people outside of myself and my friend circle that were so helpful and welcoming and like a family. So one night, you have to realise that for the past 3 years I was having the shittiest time getting over my boyfriend's passing (he was killed in Afghanistan as a soldier) and I would cry and cry and cry all the time which was really difficult to me since I was by that point so used to being emotionally shut off. So I would pray and plead to God to let me see my bf one last time as closure since it just really fucking hurt. I mean this guy was like a best friend to me as well. But I got nothing. So you know, I dealt with his loss by myself which was super trialling because I never spoke about it to anybody really and after this one shitty incident where I told one person on here all about how I was feeling about his death, and got 100% betrayed and humiliated for that, I just learned to deal with it alone. So it took time but I did it.

So yeah, one night I had this dream right? Like, I'm not a big believer in this kinda stuff but it just weirded me out and was /too/ coincidental for me. I was completely over my bf's death at this point, I was in a better place. He wasn't even at the back of my mind or anything. So I had this dream where I was in my sister's house and there was shit moving around, like tables and candles and things. I thought it was some sort of poltergeist or something so I was like okay, I'm gonna prepare myself for a nightmare because I haaate having nightmares with a passion, so I was all like yeah, let's be proactive in dream-land about this and get it over and done with. So I go into the bathroom to look for this ghost or whatever, and all of a sudden, I just see my boyfriend stood in the corner of the room looking out of the window. And he was invisible but there was dust all over him, so I knew it was him? Though I couldn't see his face. And I just broke the fuck down you know? Like I was like, where did you come from? I'm over you, this is so out of the blue. So I put my hands on his face and I start screaming frantically, "Let this be real, please let this be real. If this is real I promise I'll convert to Islam."

And then I woke up crying and I was like naaaa man that shit ain't funny. And it really scared me. But I started like thinking about a lot of shit. And then I posted on here some question for help from Muslims on the forums about this, and weird thing, a few hours later, my friend's friend's cousin randomly called me and talked about Islam to me for hours and hours? When there was no way she could have seen my post? So, idk, I started thinking about things in my mind about Islam etc how to pray. And then a few mins later, there would be a random Facebook post about it answering my problems. And when I would read Quran, one thought would run through my head and literally 2 minutes later, I would read that exact same thought I had just had. It was crazy.

so yeah tldr i've been a practising muslim for like 15 months now and love it alhamdulillah.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Mine is more personal. I was raised a Baptist, baptized at five on my grandmother's insistence (my mother was going to let me choose my own religion but lol my whole family from California to Tennessee is Christian). I never felt too strong about religion. I went to a Catholic high school where I was introduced to a lot of varying opinions on the matter. A lot of my classmates were atheist or agnostic, some believed but weren't baptized or Christian/Catholic, and the rest were believers and belonged to some denomination.

Anyways, we had some pretty interesting discussions on the existence of a higher being, but would never agree on anything. Our teachers encouraged the discussion without getting too involved. It was a pretty great environment and it helped me see that my faith was pretty weak and I believed because that was how I was raised.

When I got into university, my sophomore year my uncle died and that certainly rattled me and my faith. I did my own research, had an existential breakdown, talked to one of my speech classmates who was thinking the same things as me since he had lost his mother around the same time. In the end I decided to let go of my faith. How could I believe in a god when there is no evidence of any deity and science can tell me more about our existence than a book full of stories.

Also, the Bible (at least the old testament) is full of myths dating to the time of the Mesopotamian Empire, just changed to fit a monotheistic outlook and the names/people of the time. And even those Mesopotamian myths were just oral myths passed around by the nomadic tribes before the first actual empire was formed. Who knows where the came from before that point.

So yeah. That's my little "loss of faith" story.

I think I could still believe in a higher being, but I'm just not at that place in my life right now.
 
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Nutari

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Interesting thread you've got here! I suppose I'll go the other direction and speak with how I've went (if you can call it that) to atheism.

To put this forth from the beginning, I wouldn't say I ever really strongly held faith. There were a few nights on and off as a teenager I felt I really was into Christianity and stuff. My hometown is pretty strongly Christian, so it was hard to even consider being anything other than that growing up, being around only people who believed in a higher power. I'd sometimes pray at night and try and thank God for things and how they were going and stuff, but I really wasn't too into it I'd say. God definitely wasn't something always on my mind.

I'd had a bit of a rough patch in highschool with a few things going on in my life that aren't all really relevant, but I just very basically prayed to God to help me get through things. I'd soon after that witnessed religious debates in chats and whatnot about things said in the bible, atheism, creation, evolution, etc. It soon occurred to me that many of my personal views on life really didn't align too well with the bible, homosexuality especially, given I was (and am) very for the rights of homosexuals. I was very curious to say the least at the time, so I thought it'd be interesting to read up on a few arguments in favor of both sides.

I'd found a few videos of debates with Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins. Needless to say, I was impressed. I wasn't really taking their arguments to heart, as I really didn't want to not believe, but I certainly listened to what they had to say. It took quite a bit of time, but after awhile I realized that the people I saw debating in favor of Christianity or evolution and such just felt extremely silly to me. It occurred to me in the middle of a video with Christopher Hitchens(whose book I had actually purchased at the time) that I was actually arguing in favor of him than the person he was debating. Apologies, I can't remember the man's name.

So yeah, it's not exactly much of a sudden or shocking experience I took, more of a studying my own beliefs and realizing where I actually stood. Sorry if I worded this poorly, by the way!

As a Christian I would be inclined to discuss things further with you. I won't try to convert you or anything but I always enjoy getting a bigger picture from people! Yeah those two guys get mentioned a lot these days.

I am honestly not sure where I stand on everything. I was raised as a catholic, but I don't really practice it. I believe in God, I am just not really comfortable in sitting in the masses while someone preaches to me on how to live my life and what to believe. I am kinda stuck in the middle right now. I just really can't stand people trying to convert me to either side honestly.

Hey, if you wanna talk more about this, I can PM you? Being in the middle is really difficult. I've been there. There is something about being friends with other Christians, and praying with them, and just being in fellowship with them that awakens this fire of passion for Christ in you.

My parents raised me as Roman Catholic. I did the entire communion, confirmation, etc thing. I just never really believed to heavily in their being some higher power. I don't think I ever actually had a moment where I was like "yeah, I don't believe in god, glad I got that out of the way." If I did I certainly don't remember it. Aside from Crohn's Disease and winning the worst genes game I was dealt a pretty good hand so it's not like it was "man how could this happen to me. there must not be a god. im a good person w/e." I can say for a certainty Richard Dawkins, Hitchens, etc had no part in having me make up my mind. Because I find that ridiculous.

rambly but whatever diddly u

Hey, no thanks for sharing man! If I may offer a little tiddlybit about Catholicism? I consider them Christians, but there is so much division over Catholicism within the Church. Those rituals weren't in the Bible, and so for us it seems quite bizarre to have all of these rituals, and confession (the only thing that is constant in the "rituals" is communion), when those are all human suggested, and made, rituals. So yeah, I don't blame you for not feeling it. I would go further to say that to a degree, those things detract from a passion for God, because it's so much.

No Muslim reverts? Okay.

Tbh, I've dabbled in a bit of everything Abrahamic really. IIRC, England is mostly C of E though we have a few Catholics but there's not that much difference between them. I think Catholics hold the Pope as the head of the Church while Anglicans hold it as the Queen? Whatever, so when I was younger I went to a C of E school. Every Wednesday we had prayer/hymns with our own priest and on Sunday we had this marching band followed by a church service with our own private church. I never really took stock in it because we weren't practising religion at home. I just had to do it for school.

After losing my bf when I was 16 I went through a major bad patch. I had spent my younger teen years doing a lot of bad stuff I shouldn't and had the worst time at secondary school so at that point I was really emotionally detached and really diddlying lonely. So I just kind of started thinking about God I guess. Anyway, that lead me to some stuff about Judaism which I was interested in. I wore kippah for a few months and started reading Torah but idk, I think I was so desperately in need of guidance because I was going through a lot of shit at that point that I was sort of forcing myself into it. Plus the fact that where I was living the Jewish community was sooo xenophobic so I had literally nobody to guide me.

At this point I had been living w/ my Muslim friends for a few years at uni and we were bffs so we talked about a lot of things. Religion was just one of them. I would talk about being Jewish, they would talk about being Muslim as well as their culture (majorly Pakistani/Indian) which of course has a lot of Islamic influences in it so, you know, it felt like they had a really good sort of solid, concrete support system behind them? And idk, a lot of weird stuff happened that lead me to convert to Islam but every day it feels like even though I have my own problems w/ myself and w/ the way the world is, I do feel protected you know? Like I feel loved and guarded by something other than the physical world around me.

Basically what happened was I was still practising Judaism at this point but I would be deeply into the Asian scene since my friends were Pakistani/Indian and I was living in Manchester at the time which has a huge Asian population. So we would go to the Asian places (the Curry Mile/Wilmslow Road for those who don't know it) and like 95% of my friend circle was Asian/Muslim so I had a lot of positive influences and support even though they knew I was practising Judaism. Anyway so that was really helpful with what I was going through. Anyway so I started to realise that I was having this weird sensation inside like... I would read Torah and just get bored? Like I wouldn't care? But when I read Quran, it felt like it was written for me?

And naturally my support structure was absolutely amazing in Islam. I had so many people outside of myself and my friend circle that were so helpful and welcoming and like a family. So one night, you have to realise that for the past 3 years I was having the shittiest time getting over my boyfriend's passing (he was killed in Afghanistan as a soldier) and I would cry and cry and cry all the time which was really difficult to me since I was by that point so used to being emotionally shut off. So I would pray and plead to God to let me see my bf one last time as closure since it just really diddlying hurt. I mean this guy was like a best friend to me as well. But I got nothing. So you know, I dealt with his loss by myself which was super trialling because I never spoke about it to anybody really and after this one shitty incident where I told one person on here all about how I was feeling about his death, and got 100% betrayed and humiliated for that, I just learned to deal with it alone. So it took time but I did it.

So yeah, one night I had this dream right? Like, I'm not a big believer in this kinda stuff but it just weirded me out and was /too/ coincidental for me. I was completely over my bf's death at this point, I was in a better place. He wasn't even at the back of my mind or anything. So I had this dream where I was in my sister's house and there was shit moving around, like tables and candles and things. I thought it was some sort of poltergeist or something so I was like okay, I'm gonna prepare myself for a nightmare because I haaate having nightmares with a passion, so I was all like yeah, let's be proactive in dream-land about this and get it over and done with. So I go into the bathroom to look for this ghost or whatever, and all of a sudden, I just see my boyfriend stood in the corner of the room looking out of the window. And he was invisible but there was dust all over him, so I knew it was him? Though I couldn't see his face. And I just broke the diddly down you know? Like I was like, where did you come from? I'm over you, this is so out of the blue. So I put my hands on his face and I start screaming frantically, "Let this be real, please let this be real. If this is real I promise I'll convert to Islam."

And then I woke up crying and I was like naaaa man that shit ain't funny. And it really scared me. But I started like thinking about a lot of shit. And then I posted on here some question for help from Muslims on the forums about this, and weird thing, a few hours later, my friend's friend's cousin randomly called me and talked about Islam to me for hours and hours? When there was no way she could have seen my post? So, idk, I started thinking about things in my mind about Islam etc how to pray. And then a few mins later, there would be a random Facebook post about it answering my problems. And when I would read Quran, one thought would run through my head and literally 2 minutes later, I would read that exact same thought I had just had. It was crazy.

so yeah tldr i've been a practising muslim for like 15 months now and love it alhamdulillah.


Hmmm.. this is an interesting story! Again, if you would like to talk more, feel free to PM me :)
 

Nutari

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Mine is more personal. I was raised a Baptist, baptized at five on my grandmother's insistence (my mother was going to let me choose my own religion but lol my whole family from California to Tennessee is Christian). I never felt too strong about religion. I went to a Catholic high school where I was introduced to a lot of varying opinions on the matter. A lot of my classmates were atheist or agnostic, some believed but weren't baptized or Christian/Catholic, and the rest were believers and belonged to some denomination.

Anyways, we had some pretty interesting discussions on the existence of a higher being, but would never agree on anything. Our teachers encouraged the discussion without getting too involved. It was a pretty great environment and it helped me see that my faith was pretty weak and I believed because that was how I was raised.

When I got into university, my sophomore year my uncle died and that certainly rattled me and my faith. I did my own research, had an existential breakdown, talked to one of my speech classmates who was thinking the same things as me since he had lost his mother around the same time. In the end I decided to let go of my faith. How could I believe in a god when there is no evidence of any deity and science can tell me more about our existence than a book full of stories.

Also, the Bible (at least the old testament) is full of myths dating to the time of the Mesopotamian Empire, just changed to fit a monotheistic outlook and the names/people of the time. And even those Mesopotamian myths were just oral myths passed around by the nomadic tribes before the first actual empire was formed. Who knows where the came from before that point.

So yeah. That's my little "loss of faith" story.

I think I could still believe in a higher being, but I'm just not at that place in my life right now.

I would like to at least make a statement about the OT thing you brought up, I was sitting in at a graduate seminary class for IT one night, and the professor brought this up. As it turns out, a lot of the creation myths of the time are quite similar, but what it appears to be is that they all popped up around the same time. The Hebrews of the time, had decided to actually write down their creation story, as it appears to have been passed down orally, as we can see in the writing style Abraham uses. Also, the reason a lot of the same things pop up in other societies, is because they are loosely based on similar events. So I wouldn't discount the OT simply based on those points alone. Anyway, I am very saddened to hear of your uncle. I lost my Uncle recently to cancer, which was rather hard on my family. Those kinds of things do test your faith, and some people's do break. I would encourage you to possibly start asking questions to strong Christians and see where you really stand. Thanks for sharing Spock! I really do appreciate it!
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I would like to at least make a statement about the OT thing you brought up, I was sitting in at a graduate seminary class for IT one night, and the professor brought this up. As it turns out, a lot of the creation myths of the time are quite similar, but what it appears to be is that they all popped up around the same time. The Hebrews of the time, had decided to actually write down their creation story, as it appears to have been passed down orally, as we can see in the writing style Abraham uses. Also, the reason a lot of the same things pop up in other societies, is because they are loosely based on similar events. So I wouldn't discount the OT simply based on those points alone. Anyway, I am very saddened to hear of your uncle. I lost my Uncle recently to cancer, which was rather hard on my family. Those kinds of things do test your faith, and some people's do break. I would encourage you to possibly start asking questions to strong Christians and see where you really stand. Thanks for sharing Spock! I really do appreciate it!

I've been to a similar seminar xD I wasn't discounting it, I was thinking about how people take the Bible at face value without understanding that these stories didn't even first originate from where they think they did. So many stories in the Bible were predated by similar ones, or like you said emerged at the same time as the story in the Bible.

My condolences for your loss. It certainly does hurt to lose a family member, regardless of how close you might have been to them. I hope you and your family continue to heal.

My uncle's been gone for about three years now so I've been able to move on from his passing. I certainly will try to talk to some people. I've confided in friends but since we are all a bit lacking in the faith department, we don't really offer any varying views on the subject. I'm probably going to get in contact with a few of my religion teachers from hs to just chat with. Thank you for the advice!
 

Pinwheel

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I can say for a certainty Richard Dawkins, Hitchens, etc had no part in having me make up my mind. Because I find that ridiculous.
Would it be cool with you if I asked why? I'm curious. Not going to try and argue the validity of why or why not they had some sort of influence on my choice, I'm just interested in why you see it that way.
 

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My loss of faith story is significantly less tragic and less trailing than some, but here goes:

I, as with many people around my age, grew up in a house where religion was important; though in my family perhaps moreso than usual, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, as a result, I was raised in Evangelical Christianity since I was born. I only went to a secular school from kindergarten to second grade. From third grade on, I was enrolled in a private K-12 Christian school. We had chapel/church every Thursday, prayed in class everyday, had teachers who were pretty smart, and was taught very much immersed in Christianity.

By the time I left, I considered myself a Christian. However, also similar to many others in the same situation, I had no personal reason to be a Christian. I was so merely because that's how I was raised. Of course, there isn't anything wrong with that, and for my first two years of college I carried on as a Christian for no other reason than that. I prayed out of habit every night, but did little beyond that. Any time I saw debates, I would try to figure out how I would answer questions about Christianity in a manner not unlike how Plato formed his dialogues (and that's still the primary means I use to test my own ideas, even now).

But between my sophomore and junior year of high school, something changed. My curiosity in other cultures and the workings of the world spiked as they never had before. I found myself wondering more and more about how other people from all across the world think. I wanted to know their mythos, I wanted to know their stories. I wanted to know how they acted, why they acted that way. I was curious as to how the universe worked, as to the things that we've found and what we assume based on those discoveries. I was interested in the patterns that came out of all this information, how societies function, how they're started, how things influenced the rest. Along with all of that, I wanted to know why we think the things that we do and how we came to learn them. I wanted to know what it even meant to know these things and how much that knowledge mattered.

As I learned more and more about so many different subjects (though I am still ignorant of a lot of things), I found it harder and harder to reasonably believe that the specific concept of god as Christianity described it was any more plausible than any other religion that exists on Earth. It began to seem, to me, as the mythos of the people, perpetuated by circumstance. Just as there are similarities in the stories of Christianity and those of the surrounding areas, there are similarities between Roman and Norse mythology, similarities between the specific mysticism of the Far Eastern nations. For a while, I tried to remain that god (or rather, the supernatural) might still likely exist, since I still wanted to believe what I had been taught to be somewhat true, but that thought vanished quickly. I mean, sure the supernatural could potentially exist (though, by very definition, we would never know it), but I ceased to believe that it was any more plausible than not. Instead, the conclusion I reached was that religion, and the mythologies found around the world, were not stories of actual events, but stories inspired by actual events and by the very cultures and environment that they were a part of.

So in other words, I merely sought knowledge and came out with a different conclusion than I had going in.
 
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Would it be cool with you if I asked why? I'm curious. Not going to try and argue the validity of why or why not they had some sort of influence on my choice, I'm just interested in why you see it that way.
To be honest I find a lot of them to hypocritical and I find the way they approach discussions horrendous. While Hitchens was a great writer and probably the least of the offenders, imo. If you ever get a chance, skim through The God Delusion by Dawkins. Any valid point he may make is so shrouded in complete arrogance. Meanwhile they say that it's important to listen to reason and logic and keep an open mind while refusing to do so themselves in most cases. They also condemn indoctrination by religious organizations while attempting to essentially do the same thing.


While I may have used to think that was acceptable, it never really had any influence on my decisions. I also feel it is important for the individual to make their own decisions.
 

Pinwheel

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Yeah, I can agree on the arrogance part, especially with Hitchens, as much as I like the guy. He often recites his points over and over(his beginning statements are almost always about a higher being existing means inescapable totalitarianism) and he's always all over people stating their beliefs as fact but he pretty much does exactly that.

edit: oh, and by no means did I mean they had thoroughly "convinced" me I was wrong. They just sometimes put things out there that made me raise my own questions of how I saw things and I was rather appreciative of that.
 
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Nutari

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I've been to a similar seminar xD I wasn't discounting it, I was thinking about how people take the Bible at face value without understanding that these stories didn't even first originate from where they think they did. So many stories in the Bible were predated by similar ones, or like you said emerged at the same time as the story in the Bible.

My condolences for your loss. It certainly does hurt to lose a family member, regardless of how close you might have been to them. I hope you and your family continue to heal.

My uncle's been gone for about three years now so I've been able to move on from his passing. I certainly will try to talk to some people. I've confided in friends but since we are all a bit lacking in the faith department, we don't really offer any varying views on the subject. I'm probably going to get in contact with a few of my religion teachers from hs to just chat with. Thank you for the advice!

Thank you for that. I used to be sad, but it turns out he was a pretty bad dude. Well, he had finally made peace with my aunt, and then a bunch of stuff came out afterwards that made people in my family hate him again...
Anyway, yeah talk to some of your teachers, it should be interesting. I'm also down for offering what I can.
 

Monkey

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^I think the problem I have with Dawkins is that they are just as bad in terms of trying to infringe their beliefs on others as some religious fundamentalists. Everyone should just chill out.

As far as my faith, I am Muslim. My actual belief varies year over year, since that is just part of the experience of belief. As Ehres mentioned the Pakistani community is very tight knit and always around, so if I wanted, that could essentially be my life/social circle. And for many of them it is and that's what they know and feel comfortable around. I've chosen to have a much more diverse social circle for whatever reason so that is not the case for me. When I'm at the mosque or at certain Pakistani events such as weddings I am around a very conservative Pakistani social circle but my circle of close knit friends is literally made up of every race, religion, orientation, etc etc.

This circle though I honestly don't know anyone's faiths in actuality. In terms of background, some are christian, others are mixed (so for example Buddhist/Muslim), but it's almost always in name/through family only, with a few exceptions. The ones we do hear from are clearly agnostics as they bring it up. Some of my friends are atheists too, it's obvious by their world view and lifestyle and what not, but they never bring it up unless its the topic of conversation because they aren't assholes. So if I had to describe my social circle it'd be..agnostically diverse...

I'm in Texas,so heavily Christian with all its denominations. But I am also in one of the most diverse cities in the world so you get all types.

As far as my faith I do typical Muslim things. I pray (when I can), go to Jummah, fast, want to do hajj, eat halal, etc etc. I however also drink, have sex, and do other things that some Muslims stay away from as much as possible. So there's a bit of contradiction there but I am very understanding of my own beliefs and belief system. I think I will quit doing some of these things just because I've found there's a reason some of these things aren't allowed. But that isn't for religious reasons, rather, for my own well being.

Ideally it only makes sense to me if there is an Allah, and I think faith has done great things for some people's well being whether it be if they are sick or going through a rough patch or whatever.
 

Roxie1563

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Mm, this is an interesting thread and well, I don't really have a long story, but I think Aldrain's is closely related to mine, except I'm stuck in the middle. I do believe in God and Jesus Christ and the Bible is real, along with every single story in it is real. I mean, scientists can prove those events happen in a scientific way and that's their opinion. But I know those events are real because it DID happen, otherwise we'll be lost forever.

I lost some family members, but I didn't really know them that well since my parents didn't say much about them except for Mom's. I just am not sure how to know that I'm an Christian. I know the Bible shows it, but I think I don't understand it well enough to really see if I'm true or not. :/
 

Wehrmacht

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I was raised in a mormon family. It started with my paternal grandmother joining the church to find a good environment to raise her kids in and it got passed down to my dad. When I was younger I took it for granted that i believed in god because i was told it was the truth, but in retrospect i never truly believed it. i hated going to church on sunday because it felt like a huge waste of my time for me and i hated waking up early for it. eventually my father ended up having a small affair with another woman and that caused us to lose standing with the institution leading us to visit rather infrequently over the next few years. i eventually came to realize that i didn't really buy the church's teachings and found them to be repressive, old-fashioned, and not conducive to a healthy mental state (for me), and i also realized that the whole "us vs them" thing that the church promoted was nonsense because there are good people of all religions and bad people too. my mother tried to rekindle visits to the church after my dad finally divorced her, but eventually she realized she didn't need it and we haven't been there since. i don't miss it at all and i think our family is happier for it.

i'm more or less an apatheist now. i think people should discover what makes them happiest and leave everyone else to their own business.
 

Nutari

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Mm, this is an interesting thread and well, I don't really have a long story, but I think Aldrain's is closely related to mine, except I'm stuck in the middle. I do believe in God and Jesus Christ and the Bible is real, along with every single story in it is real. I mean, scientists can prove those events happen in a scientific way and that's their opinion. But I know those events are real because it DID happen, otherwise we'll be lost forever.

I lost some family members, but I didn't really know them that well since my parents didn't say much about them except for Mom's. I just am not sure how to know that I'm an Christian. I know the Bible shows it, but I think I don't understand it well enough to really see if I'm true or not. :/


Feel free to talk to me about this. I know we had started to, but we never really go the chance.
 

Roxie1563

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Feel free to talk to me about this. I know we had started to, but we never really got the chance.

Fixed. :)

Sure! :D Um, should we do it here or PM? I don't want to derail this tread.
 

moonstar_xo

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I was raised Roman Catholic, but my family was never super religious. I've received 4 sacraments (Baptism, Reconciliation, Communion, and Confirmation) but my family has gone to church pretty infrequently for as long as I can remember. Even though I practiced my religion pretty infrequently and didn't really take a lot of it seriously, I was still confident in God's existence for a very long time. Shortly after receiving my Confirmation at age 13, however, my faith began to change a bit. I wasn't too fond of a lot of the Catholic Church's preachings whenever I would actually go to church, and I started to wonder if I would even consider myself Catholic anymore since I disagreed with so much of what they were saying. I remember asking my mom if there was a religion in which people only believed in God and that Jesus was His son, but she told me to "stop talking nonsense," so I kind of just stopped thinking about it.

Then, when I was in 11th grade, my US History teacher was talking about how important religion was in the lives of many of the early immigrants to America was. He said something along the lines of, "Most people back in this time didn't live nearly as long as we do today, and, unless they had a lot of money or power, their lives were generally pretty shitty. The concept of Heaven was only created so that those people back then had something to look forward to." I don't necessarily believe that, but it got me thinking: what if that IS all Heaven really is, just an idea? What if religion itself is just all made up? It's entirely possible, since I've never encountered concrete evidence that any religion I've ever heard of is actually true.

I had a bit of a crisis of faith after that day. I was really questioning my belief in God. It was then when I started looking into Agnosticism. After a lot of thinking I'd realized that I still believed in God, but I wasn't so sure that I believed in the Roman Catholic Church. I wasn't sure if I believed in any sort of religion, honestly. I discovered a branch of Agnosticism known as Christian Agnosticism, which is essentially what I mentioned before. It means that all you truly believe is that God is real and that Jesus Christ is His son. Everything else is up to you if you want to believe in it. Today, when asked I identify myself as Agnostic, but if they are really curious about my beliefs I go into further detail. I believe all the basic components of Christianity, but I don't claim to know that any of them are true. I think that everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, since, for all I know, I could be wrong in my beliefs and theirs could be true.
 
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