KHI makes a KH game! Programming Sub-topic

[riku's_artist7]

ANY HELP NEED OR WE CAN GIT FOR THIS GAME, PLEASE PROVIDE IT WOULD MAKE ALL OF US IN A VERY JOYOUS MOOD

k thank you <3

 

[Arkrend]

@Arkrend
I'll take a look at Unity, and if I see it's easier to use than W3's engine, then we could switch to it, but looking at the images and stuff, I doubt my PC can run it haha. I'll give it a look anyway, thanks for the suggestion.

Well usually the things that might prevent a PC from running something is how much RAM it uses. Since Unity is just an engine without any 3D models it should work on most computers just fine. If your PC plays Warcraft III well then that is probably the graphical level this fangame should aim for.

Arkrend also suggested us to use the Unity engine, which supports JAVA code. I don't know much about this engine or JAVA, so I cannot give any more details.

I feel like a real goof. I forgot to mention that Unity supports JAVA, C#, and Boo.

@Key to Truth cool dude. At the moment I've offered using Warcraft III's engine, which uses vJASS, a variant of C. It's very simple to learn and contains many many native functions from the game itself that we can use. More importantly, it can handle all the different resources we get, be it music, 3D models, and pictures, and can make cutscenes, which is a major plus.

VJASS sounds interesting. I might need to learn a little bit about it. Maybe in a while I can contribute with programming once I can the hang of some these programming languages.

It's very cool of you to volunteer yourself for this project Pratiko. I wonder how applying a Kingdom Hearts battle system to the Warcraft engine will work. This might be a lot of fun. Aside from all the hard work.

 

[Pratiko]

This indeed will mean a lot of hard work, specially because of KH's complex battle systems.

Oh, and I tested Unity. It runs fine in my PC, and yeah, it supports languages other than JAVA, which is pretty cool. I still don't get the hang of it, though, it's nothing like I've seen before, but I just dedicated it a few minutes...

 

[Arkrend]

This indeed will mean a lot of hard work, specially because of KH's complex battle systems.

Oh, and I tested Unity. It runs fine in my PC, and yeah, it supports languages other than JAVA, which is pretty cool. I still don't get the hang of it, though, it's nothing like I've seen before, but I just dedicated it a few minutes...

Yeah it's not an ordinary hobby engine. It's capable of some professional stuff. Well I hope to be of help soon. I'm trying to learn C#, and then after VJASS if there is time. Hopefully in a couple of months I help with some basic stuff. By then this project will probably have some clearer direction as far as technology and how certain things will be adapted.

Probably going to need to pick up a copy of Warcraft by then.

 

[king_mickey rule]

I'm glad a couple of people have suggested to help and join the programming team! As for Key To Truth, glad to have you back man! ^^

Btw, DarkRiku, good job on editing the first post. One thing I think should be implemented is the members of the programming team, it's easier for Pratiko or anyone else to see who is part of the team since these members will have to work closely together

Keep up the good job guys, sorry if I'm not that active anymore but school's taking priority the last couple of days n.n

 

[DarkRiku-12]

^ Okay, who are all of the people ?

Key of Truth
Pratiko
Arkrend

is there anyone else?

And btw, I'm suprised that there are this many programers so early! Although we probably won't really have to program anything for a couple of months (models and stuff have to be made first) I guess that's a good thing, as that will give us time to learn code/ practice stuff. For now though, this will probably be mostly 3d models that are posted.

I and probably most of the other people on here really appreciate the help, guys! Thanks!

 

[king_mickey rule]

^ Okay, who are all of the people ?

Key of Truth
Pratiko
Arkrend

is there anyone else?

And btw, I'm suprised that there are this many programers so early! Although we probably won't really have to program anything for a couple of months (models and stuff have to be made first) I guess that's a good thing, as that will give us time to learn code/ practice stuff. For now though, this will probably be mostly 3d models that are posted.

I and probably most of the other people on here really appreciate the help, guys! Thanks!

I think that's about it for the team. The only thing left to do is keep editing the team list when someone joins

 

[Key to Truth]

@Key to Truth cool dude. At the moment I've offered using Warcraft III's engine, which uses vJASS, a variant of C. It's very simple to learn and contains many many native functions from the game itself that we can use. More importantly, it can handle all the different resources we get, be it music, 3D models, and pictures, and can make cutscenes, which is a major plus.

Arkrend also suggested us to use the Unity engine, which supports JAVA code. I don't know much about this engine or JAVA, so I cannot give any more details.

Anyway, you're welcome to help, of course.

Well, I don't know much about JAVA. (I could learn of course.) People has told me it's similar to C/C++. Anyways, wouldn't it be better to just create the game on something like OpenGL or DirectX? That way we would be in total control of the game, however, I do understand that taking a good engine would make it more simple and faster to create.

We could use Crysis engine, as far as I know it's free to use, but I don't know what languages it supports.

 

[Pratiko]

Never used any of those engines before, but really, I'm offering using W3's engine because it's very easy to work with and adapt to. People that don't know how to program can do World Designs by themselves on this engine, too, so we don't have to take care of that. Battle System creation, Camera Adaptation and stuff can all be done with this engine, same with Cutscenes.

Anyway, that's one offer. What are the advantages of OpenGL, DirectX or Crysis' engines?

 

[DarkRiku-12]

Personally, my vote is for the Unity engine. It seems the most flexible of all of them (being able to use different coding types, and being the least limited of them all) and I like the idea of WC 3 too, but if you have to buy it, that might limit the people who play it and in my opinion, I would want as many people to play this as possible. I've also played some of the games that Arkrend posted that were made with Unity and let me tell you, it's capable of some amazing shit. Now, I'm not a programmer myself, so I might just be talking out my ass. I'm just putting my opinion out there.

 

[Pratiko]

You don't have to actually buy it, just torrent it...
But if Unity can be used, then cool, let's use that. I'll give a closer look to it in a week or so, when I've passed the major exams period.

 

[Key to Truth]

Never used any of those engines before, but really, I'm offering using W3's engine because it's very easy to work with and adapt to. People that don't know how to program can do World Designs by themselves on this engine, too, so we don't have to take care of that. Battle System creation, Camera Adaptation and stuff can all be done with this engine, same with Cutscenes.

Anyway, that's one offer. What are the advantages of OpenGL, DirectX or Crysis' engines?

Well, I'd say the advantages and disadvantages are these:

OpenGL
-Cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Ubuntu and Mac I think).
-Most PS3/Xbox 360/PSP/PS2 games use it.
-Code can be easily ported to PSP/PS3/Xbox360 (Homebrew).

-Requires lots of practice and experience.
-It doesn't handle 3D really good, graphic functions have to be optimized for a good performance.

DirectX
-Really fast and powerful 3D and 2D rendering.

-Windows only.
-Requires a LOT of practice and knowledge on stuff such as sound and video handling, animations, sprites, etc.

Crysis Engine
-It's just... the best of the best.
-This is for professionals.

All these are not actual programs, they are a bunch of libraries, dlls and other things that allow you to create your game from scratch. However, I'm pretty sure we won't be using this as we need for people with no programming experience to be able to do stuff.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm okay with anything you guys decide as long as I can do something with my programming skills in C++.

 

[DarkRiku-12]

Well, I'd say the advantages and disadvantages are these:

OpenGL
-Cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Ubuntu and Mac I think).
-Most PS3/Xbox 360/PSP/PS2 games use it.
-Code can be easily ported to PSP/PS3/Xbox360 (Homebrew).

-Requires lots of practice and experience.
-It doesn't handle 3D really good, graphic functions have to be optimized for a good performance.

DirectX
-Really fast and powerful 3D and 2D rendering.

-Windows only.
-Requires a LOT of practice and knowledge on stuff such as sound and video handling, animations, sprites, etc.

Crysis Engine
-It's just... the best of the best.
-This is for professionals.

All these are not actual programs, they are a bunch of libraries, dlls and other things that allow you to create your game from scratch. However, I'm pretty sure we won't be using this as we need for people with no programming experience to be able to do stuff.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm okay with anything you guys decide as long as I can do something with my programming skills in C++.

That's another advantage about Unity. It can use several codes including C++, apparently.

 

[Pratiko]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm okay with anything you guys decide as long as I can do something with my programming skills in C++.

If you put it that way, Unity would be the way to go, or using cJASS, a C variant of vJASS (yeah, vJASS can go that far). Haven't used it, so I didn't want to mention it, but I've played maps that have it and it works without any errors compared to vJASS.

Although, I saw the Unity graphics and easyness to test and such and was amazed, W3's engine can't do that so efficiently, so I really wanna take a closer look to it, so we could decide this in a week or two. Until then we could post demonstrations of what different engines can do and whatnot.

 

[Key to Truth]

If you put it that way, Unity would be the way to go, or using cJASS, a C variant of vJASS (yeah, vJASS can go that far). Haven't used it, so I didn't want to mention it, but I've played maps that have it and it works without any errors compared to vJASS.

Although, I saw the Unity graphics and easyness to test and such and was amazed, W3's engine can't do that so efficiently, so I really wanna take a closer look to it, so we could decide this in a week or two. Until then we could post demonstrations of what different engines can do and whatnot.

I'm downloading Unity to see how good it is. It will probably be our way to go... I will try to get used to Unity to see if I can do stuff with it, even if it's just with placeholder resources.

EDIT: This Unity thingy isn't free D;

 

[Arkrend]

EDIT: This Unity thingy isn't free D;

The trial is Unity Pro. After 30 days it becomes regular Unity. I was confused too, because today I downloaded the new version with a few new features. It recently became free about two years ago.

Don't worry the wording can be a little confusing. Trust me that Unity is free I just downloaded, after completely deleting my old one, without giving away and information whatsoever. I just clicked download, read the user rights, and installed.

If it helps I'll even quote what it says right above the download button, "Free Full Version for Windows with
Unity Pro and Android trials." See?

I'll even add in another quote from Wikipedia, "There are two main licenses: Unity and Unity Pro, with the Pro version being available for a price and the non Pro version being free. The Pro version has additional features, like render-to-texture and post-processing effects. The Free version, on the other hand, displays a splash screen (in standalone games) and a watermark (in web games)."

Basically the Pro version costs $100 and it allows better graphics. Don't be afraid to install it. You won't end up getting some bill in the mail or something. I think the two quotes above should be more than enough to assure that the engine is indeed free. There is just a Pro version which costs money.

Links to the quotes.
UNITY: Download and Start Creating Games
Unity (game engine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Feel free to finish installing Unity. Even if we don't use it, which doesn't mean much to me since I'm going to have learn a lot of programming regardless, it's still a neat tool. I'm sure someone who already has programming knowledge will find it handy as a hobby tool.

The Unity website finally put together a nice tutorial page.
UNITY: Documentation

 

[Key to Truth]

The trial is Unity Pro. After 30 days it becomes regular Unity. I was confused too, because today I downloaded the new version with a few new features. It recently became free about two years ago.

Don't worry the wording can be a little confusing. Trust me that Unity is free I just downloaded, after completely deleting my old one, without giving away and information whatsoever. I just clicked download, read the user rights, and installed.

If it helps I'll even quote what it says right above the download button, "Free Full Version for Windows with
Unity Pro and Android trials." See?

I'll even add in another quote from Wikipedia, "There are two main licenses: Unity and Unity Pro, with the Pro version being available for a price and the non Pro version being free. The Pro version has additional features, like render-to-texture and post-processing effects. The Free version, on the other hand, displays a splash screen (in standalone games) and a watermark (in web games)."

Basically the Pro version costs $100 and it allows better graphics. Don't be afraid to install it. You won't end up getting some bill in the mail or something. I think the two quotes above should be more than enough to assure that the engine is indeed free. There is just a Pro version which costs money.

Links to the quotes.
UNITY: Download and Start Creating Games
Unity (game engine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Feel free to finish installing Unity. Even if we don't use it, which doesn't mean much to me since I'm going to have learn a lot of programming regardless, it's still a neat tool. I'm sure someone who already has programming knowledge will find it handy as a hobby tool.

The Unity website finally put together a nice tutorial page.
UNITY: Documentation

I see, I see. I hope the splash screen isn't too annoying.

 

[Arkrend]

Also, if it ever did come to legal issues, we wouldn't really stand a chance. Even though those things you posted are true, they can still get around them. Plus, Square isn't too yielding as we see form the Chrono Trigger fan game.

You know I took a look at the Chrono Trigger fan games after this post and found some interesting information.

A quote from the Cease and Desist letter, "It has come to our attention that you, along with other members of Kajar Laboratories, have been developing a ROM hack game called Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes ("CT:CE") based on Squire Enix's copyright intellectual property."

I see the first mistake right here. ROMs are basically pirated console games distributed over the PC. ROMs are actually a type of file type, but a console game put on the PC appears to come out as a ROM. I'm guessing that the copyright technology put on game discs is what puts the data in ROM format. In ROM format the data shoudn't be able to be hacked.

So the first thing that was wrong with that project was it used illegal methods to obtain an engine, hacking a ROM, as well stealing property from the company, from what I've seen ROMs are basically console torrents. I base this off the fact the fact that when I googled, "Are ROMs torrents?" my search brought up "torrentz.eu: [ROMs] Console Torrent." A little more research and I was right that it was either pirated or hacked off of the primary source of data.

I guess that leads into another which is whatever we do with this project should completely fanmade. Which I'm guessing ought to include 3D models and whatnot. Using anything that actually came from a Kingdom Hearts game, as in the data was taken out, appears to break the copyright law.

This is confirmed when the readme of the Chrono Trigger game said, "ROM altering and modification is illegal...," well that pretty much confirms using anything from the real Kingdom Hearts like 3D models or data on how the combat system works is illegal.

There's also this response by Square Enix on the nature of the fangame, "We understand that you intend to instruct others how to circumvent our copy protection using Temporal Flux in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act,..." I understand these types of reponses to this.

While doing more research I found that there are Chrono Trigger fan games that were built with a separate legal engine.

I guess the point of my post is to outline my opinion on a few things.

• The Chrono Trigger game in question was built off a ROM. We're lucky that we have around three options at the moment and none of the include ROMs. A free 3D engine, the tools to build our own engine, and mod tools from a pre-established game.
• The Chrono Trigger fangame should not have hacked the ROM of the real game nor should they have had the ROM at all in a legal point of view. Seeing as everything from this fangame is custom made, from the music to that one sweet 3D model of Ciel that Cassidy made (Just saw it and thought it was very impressive), that issue is nonexistent to this project.
• And finally if we do continue with this project (Which I came so late into. I missed the entire planning process. ) that nothing legally questionable should be done in it's creation. That's my humble opinion.

Other than my opinion on ROMs, shouldn't DisneyFreaksXIII also be on the programmer list? He volunteered to learn for the project, and that puts him in a similar boat to me. I'm using my time to get a little more serious on getting a firm grip on C# to be of use later on. I hardly remember what little I learned about programming and need to get back on that horse. I figured me and DisneyFreaksXIII were both on the learning experience horse.

 

[Pratiko]

Other than my opinion on ROMs, shouldn't DisneyFreaksXIII also be on the programmer list? He volunteered to learn for the project, and that puts him in a similar boat to me. I'm using my time to get a little more serious on getting a firm grip on C# to be of use later on. I hardly remember what little I learned about programming and need to get back on that horse. I figured me and DisneyFreaksXIII were both on the learning experience horse.

Put me there, too, if we're gonna use anything other than W3's engine.

@ROMs and legal stuff, I couldn't care less, really. But if everyone wants to stay legal, let's just do it that way.

 

[Arkrend]

Alright I'd like to make a quick correction about Unity. It supports JAVA, C#, and Boo. C# is a slightly more advanced version of C++. The transition should be smooth is someone is already good at C++. It is basically like if you were learning college level vocabulary. It is easy if you already speak English.

This website helps for people trying to move from C++ to C#, pronounced C sharp.

C++ -> C#: What You Need to Know to Move from C++ to C#

I figured Key to Truth would want to know this.

If we decide on the Cryengine then the only programming language available is C++ from what I've researched. Commercial games for Cyrengine require a license but since this a free game no license is needed.

Basically I asking Key to Truth what his opinion is. Would he rather learn the differences between C++ and C#, or simply vote for the Cryengine where he doesn't need to learn anything?

For the rest of us we have to learn something either way. Just wondering if C# is a turn off for Key to Truth since I mistakenly included C++ in the list of scripting languages for Unity when it was actually C#.

Either way I'm going to post a few free online books to hopefully help anyone learn the following programming languages.

C++

Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days

C#

http://www.programmersheaven.com/ebooks/csharp_ebook.pdf

Couldn't find anything for VJASS, which works with the Warcraft engine.