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Revelation on Riku's Memories



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Relix

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I think its more along the lines of Ansem finding something within Riku and it being more like, "This pay be the way to pay for my sins. This can save them all." type deal. He sounded pretty remorseful at the end of KH2 and during the convo with Aqua but during his convo with Aqua it sounded like he might have found a way to make amends with Sora and the others.
 

Caxm

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Mabey he put some of Riku's memories in as a filler, to fill in missing pieces of Sora, or mabey it happend natrauly
 

Goldpanner

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"Let's see what happens if I put Riku's memories in Sora."

"Perhaps my heart of a scientist is merely to blame..."

Hang on I am getting a flow here

+AtW put data in Sora
+this data involves Riku
+this data is said to be the key to saving the tormented people
+saving the tormented people involves freeing kingdom hearts
+freeing kingdom hearts involves bringing it back as the core of the RoL
+bringing it back involves summoning it
+summoning it involves the Xblade
+SORA AND RIKU ARE XBLADE WAT
 

Luap

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You lost me here. Sora and Riku's hearts aren't made of pure light and pure darkness so it won't work.

Actually, I think he may be on to something. Maybe the data might have to do with making Sora's heart pure light and Riku's heart pure darkness.
 
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"Perhaps my heart of a scientist is merely to blame..."

xD
Well, I think that gives merit to his curiosity, but curiosity within reason. Like, he experimented on the heart to find the source of its darkness. He wouldn't just throw Riku's memories in to Sora for no reason, he must have had some idea/hypothesis in mind.

Hang on I am getting a flow here

+AtW put data in Sora
+this data involves Riku
+this data is said to be the key to saving the tormented people
+saving the tormented people involves freeing kingdom hearts
+freeing kingdom hearts involves bringing it back as the core of the RoL
+bringing it back involves summoning it
+summoning it involves the Xblade
+SORA AND RIKU ARE XBLADE WAT

This does kind of coincide with where I was going with Ventus and Vanitas being in Sora and Riku's hearts, respectively: to pass down that ability to create the X-Blade.
If you recall my old dual wielding / X-Blade theory, I also suggested something to this effect. Note how the KK first appears after Sora and Riku's hearts connect (in a burst of light), as if it was on a smaller scale than the X-Blade's creation.

If what you're saying is true, then the "data" that DiZ placed in Sora wouldn't necessarily be Riku's memories, but something that connects Sora's heart directly to Riku's (so that they could fuse).
But as has been pointed out, there's the question of how they could achieve a heart of pure light and pure darkness. I don't see this as much of a problem for Sora as I do for Riku, especially considering that he no longer belongs to the dark realm.
 

skyfoxx

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Actually, I think he may be on to something. Maybe the data might have to do with making Sora's heart pure light and Riku's heart pure darkness.

(facepalm) Ansem can NOT (I repeat a thousand times NOT) make a heart of pure light just out of data! That would mean that Ansem created a virus that destroyed Sora's darkness and destroyed Riku's light. Riku does NOT have a heart of pure light as he uses both light and darkness. Sora has been known to have darkness in his heart too, he is NOT one of pure light.
Sora and Riku do NOT have hearts of pure light and pure darkness, to say so is just stupid.

And even by some bizarre plothole sliding past us that the data somehow put in them then the next big question would be WHY. Why would Ansem want to destroy Sora's darkness and destroy Riku's darkness, that's just stupid and pointless. I swear the "Sora has a heart of pure light" and "Riku has a heart of pure darkness" is as stupid as saying "Ansem is the secret boss!"
 

Zdude2099

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I just read through this whole thread just now and i have to say...
Damn!!!
Bravo Grass!
You covered every angle of this thing!
Everything you posted here has either proof or logical reasoning!
It appears to me that you have discovered the missing link that ties the whole series together!
I have not been this excited about Kingdom Hearts in a very long time, Thank you Grass!
 
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I think instead of it being Sora and Riku's hearts creating the xblade, it would be Ven's and Vanitas' coming in contact with each other via Sora and Riku's connection. Which might possibly could take place when reviving Ven from sleep. I think through this data, we will learn of vanitas being in Riku's heart. And that both riku and Sora must give their respective parts of Ven's heart back to him. Then when tht happens, maybe we could have another battle against Venitas lol :) (last part not entirely serious)
 

Goldpanner

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Actually, I think he may be on to something.

I'm a girl~

xD
Well, I think that gives merit to his curiosity, but curiosity within reason. Like, he experimented on the heart to find the source of its darkness. He wouldn't just throw Riku's memories in to Sora for no reason, he must have had some idea/hypothesis in mind.

Hee hee. Maybe his hypothesis was.... something cool would happen! For science!

If you recall my old dual wielding / X-Blade theory, I also suggested something to this effect. Note how the KK first appears after Sora and Riku's hearts connect (in a burst of light), as if it was on a smaller scale than the X-Blade's creation.

Ah, I hadn't thought of that! I guess we need more information about how normal Keyblades are made in the first place.

Where is this theory? I can't remember it. SEE THIS IS WHY YOU NEED A BLOG.

If what you're saying is true, then the "data" that DiZ placed in Sora wouldn't necessarily be Riku's memories, but something that connects Sora's heart directly to Riku's (so that they could fuse).
But as has been pointed out, there's the question of how they could achieve a heart of pure light and pure darkness.

Yeah. It would be strange since they're not really two halves of one heart.

Data? :D? It seems to solve everything in KH.

(facepalm) Ansem can NOT (I repeat a thousand times NOT) make a heart of pure light just out of data!

How do you know, though? He was trying. He managed to make a whole town of people who acted like they had real hearts. That could have been his end goal in researching data; making an artificial heart of light and heart of dark, so that no one would have to be sacrificed.

I think instead of it being Sora and Riku's hearts creating the xblade, it would be Ven's and Vanitas' coming in contact with each other via Sora and Riku's connection.

But that means Ven's arc about the Xblade in BBS would have been worthless... oh well, the writers want to bring back everyone who died and negate their development arcs too, so maybe it wouldn't be so surprising.
 

Goldpanner

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Just felt like sharing.

Cause, yanno, not everyone hangs out in the Xion Critics and Lulz club (coolest place to be y/y)

Days Novel 3 said:
“By any chance… Riku…?” murmured Naminé, looking up at the pod in which Sora slept.
Memories are flowing out of Sora, and at the same time, fragments of memory are coming back into him. I sense a great number of memory fragments. One—no, way more.
Fragments of memory of so many people—There, Riku memories are also mixed in. I have handled Riku memories once before, when I copied those memories into the Replica, so I recognise them.
Why is she absorbing even Riku memories? What on earth is happening?
And, you—what on earth is she?
xxx
Riku held Xion’s fallen body quietly in his arms. It seemed as if she had lost consciousness.
Riku’s head hurt, which was making him frown.
What’s with this pain…? Just before, when I remembered Zexion’s words, the slight headache I was feeling got horribly worse; the pain got remarkably strong. I’d never felt a pain like that before, and it made me fade out of consciousness for a moment. What’s happening?
“Who… on earth… am I…?” Xion said in a small voice, her eyes still closed.
Feeling uneasy, Riku pulled his blindfold up a little and looked at Xion. For a moment, Xion’s face… looked like someone else’s.
That’s not Naminé or Kairi, that’s, that person.
In that hallucination-like instant, Riku’s headache receded critically.
What the hell is this?
Just then, Riku looked up at the sound of running footsteps on the pier. He saw Roxas’ running figure disappear into a dark corridor.

So Grass was right about Sora having Riku memories during the Coded timeframe... but it wasn't AtW who put them there. It was Xion. Looks like she's finally actually important for something not made redundant by KH2!

Aaaaand here's a diagram of the History of Sora's Fukcery.

Spoiler Spoiler Show
 
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sora4sky

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Just felt like sharing.

Cause, yanno, not everyone hangs out in the Xion Critics and Lulz club (coolest place to be y/y)



So Grass was right about Sora having Riku memories during the Coded timeframe... but it wasn't AtW who put them there. It was Xion. Looks like she's finally actually important for something not made redundant by KH2!

Aaaaand here's a diagram of the History of Sora's Fukcery.

Spoiler Spoiler Show

Oh nice one goldpanner...this helps a lot.
 

Goldpanner

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Oh nice one goldpanner...this helps a lot.

Why thank you ;D

Except...... we also know from BBS that AtW put some kind of data in Sora too, and I don't know how that affects the flow of things. AND anything can be revealed/retconned in at any point... so it's not concrete at all lol
 

HeartSeams

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Kanemaki is a horrible writer =/

"Riku’s head hurt, which was making him frown."

awesome.

"That’s not Naminé or Kairi, that’s, that person."

so descriptive. "that person". I know exactly who they're speaking of!~
 

sora4sky

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Why thank you ;D

Except...... we also know from BBS that AtW put some kind of data in Sora too, and I don't know how that affects the flow of things. AND anything can be revealed/retconned in at any point... so it's not concrete at all lol

Yeah, i know what you mean by revealed/retconned.

As for AtW's data, i don't know i think it might give us clues or lead us directly to all these.
 

Memory Master

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For a while I've been trying to think of a reason behind this theory. If the data in Sora is comprised in part of Riku's memories, then what is it about Riku that could help save those in torment? I've got one idea in mind, and it has to do with another theory of mine:

http://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/146748-seeds-have-been-planted.html

(read the op in there before proceeding)

Riku has (or rather had) Vanitas' heart inside him. I know this doesn't sound all too appealing, but there are a few reasons why it adds up.
First, as I said in that topic, I think MX could have deduced that Ven's heart was connected to Sora. He wouldn't have attributed his recovery of the keyblade to some act of providence, I'm sure, and he could undoubtedly sense a change in Ven's heart as well. So, by connecting Vanitas to Riku's heart as Ven was to Sora's heart, he could ensure that the X-Blade could be created in the future should it fail the first time Ven and Vanitas tried to fuse.

But there's another reason why it fits, and it has to do with timing.
Check out this line of events:

1. Terra picks Riku to be his successor.
2. Terra goes to save Ven from Eraqus, transporting him on Destiny Island.
3. On Destiny Island, Ven meets Vanitas (who was there before him).

Question: What was Vanitas doing on Destiny Islands? Surely he couldn't have known that Terra would save Ven and transport him there. Vanitas had to be doing something. But what? Again, these events happen back-to-back. In other words, Vanitas went to Destiny Island directly after Terra chose Riku to wield the keyblade. Coincidence?

If Aqua could sense that Riku was chosen, so could Vanitas. And going back to the idea that MX and Vanitas knew about Sora's connection to Ven, I think Vanitas saw the perfect chance for his own fail safe back up plan.
I was always surprised at how Aqua noted that Riku's heart was filled with light. For some reason I thought he would be like Terra, naturally inclined to have a bit more darkness. Instead, he was light in the beginning, but Vanitas' darkness twisted him over the years, accounting for the change Kairi senses in him (hence why she tells Sora to never change). It also explains, obviously, Riku's dark suit. I know people chalk it up to being a coincidence, a rehashed design, but, really, there are only two occurrences of the suit in the series (Vanitas and Riku). Given Nomura's tendency for connections via physical appearances, there really ought to be some sort of reason for why the suits look so similar. And, after all, we already know that when Vanitas goes into another's heart, they aquire the suit- just look at Ven (in the scene where he has his armor on, but it melts into the dark suit). Riku's suit is slightly different for a potential variety of reasons, but I think that fits nicely.

But where am I going with this? Vanitas is inside Riku, so what?
This is where DiZ comes into play:




He wanted to find out about Xehanort's past via his tests and research the darkness of the heart. Knowing this, would Riku not be the perfect sample? He's got an abundance of darkness which he somehow managed to control (for the most part), AND he's harboring Xehanort's heart.
So, I think Riku may have been the subject of some testing. And what DiZ found was entirely unexpected.

Instead of just finding out about Xehanort's past, he found Vanitas' memories in there as well. Coupling that with Namine's discovery in Sora, I think he may have put the pieces together. He realized that Sora and Riku were harboring the two halves of another being, Ven.
Knowing this, he decided to put his device to good use- the Heart Encoder.

He extracted the portion within Riku that was comprised of Vanitas' heart by converting it into data, and he placed that data into Sora. However, this had an unforeseen side effect: Vanitas' heart was so deeply ingrained in Riku's that by extricating it, some memories of Riku had come out as well since they latched on. Now Sora has the two pieces of the puzzle in his heart. DiZ left the rest up to him, hoping that he could find a way to put them together.

One question you may be asking is why, if DiZ could do this, didn't he just extract Xehanort's heart as well and save Riku all that trouble? And there's a simple answer, best put by Riku himself:



Just like how he chose to fight Ansem rather than lock him away when Namine gave him the choice, Riku chose to keep Ansem in his heart rather than extract him. He would need the power of darkness in order to bring back Roxas.
Interestingly, this theory entails that Riku knows about the data in Sora. And that's a distinct possibility.
Note that when SRK are reading the King's letter, Riku has a knowing smile, as if he expected this to happen.
And there's another hint. Before AtW went kablooey, one of his last words was, "Riku, you know what to do!"

What DOES Riku know? When you think about it, addressing Riku there was awfully peculiar. I think they all knew they had to stop Xemnas at that point, so he had to be talking about something else.

So that's it. That's my best shot at the moment.
As for why restoring Ven's heart would help save those in torment, it has to do with the X-Blade. By fusing these two halves once more, the X-Blade could be created. In that case, Sora would be the owner, and I'm sure he could use it to "Open the door"...

Oh, and if this is true, I think it's a strong indicator that the main antagonist in KH3D is Vanitas (assuming that KH3D is what I speculated it to be).

You've been dabbling in the Akashik Records haven't you? Bravo Grass, this explains nearly everything. I espicialy like how you tied this to Sora becoming the wielder of the X-Blade and opening the door, That was excellent.
 
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Thanks for bringing that up, miss Pan.
So I was right about the memories, but I swapped the direction they were coming from.

The logic can still work in a similar way.
Originally I believed that Xion was absorbing Riku's memories because they were inside Sora (since she's Sora's clone, she should only be absorbing his memories).
But in this case, it could be that Xion is absorbing memories from Riku because she's replicating this ability from Sora himself. That is, for whatever reason, Sora had started to absorb some of Riku's memories, and when Xion was created, she mimicked this ability.

I know it sort of seems like I'm trying to work my way around Xion, but I'm not doing it because I dislike her. I just feel that, given that KH3D will focus on the relationship between Sora and Riku, that there had to be a connection there that wasn't necessarily created from Xion.

I know it's not wildly popular, but I still hold that there's a chance Riku has Vanitas' side of the heart. Unappealing somewhat, given the amount of other hearts in him. But it really adds some great perspective on the struggle between Sora and Riku in KH1.
And, as I've stated, in order to be truly revived, Ven ought to get his old heart back. In other words, retrieve the part that he destroyed.

I love it! Grass is my GOD for KH.

No I'm not.
Don't ever flatter me like that. Deifying someone because of their theories is putting them in the same category as KMA on GameFAQs, and I don't ever want to even be remotely compared to him.
 
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