Same as with Repliku, right?
He knew that he was just a fabrication, yet still had his own thoughts regarding that.
Xion's memory in Sora?
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Same as with Repliku, right?
He knew that he was just a fabrication, yet still had his own thoughts regarding that.
Yes, she's no more or less "worth" a being as Roxas and Naminé are, an incomplete existence because she has none of the "main three important parts" that make up a full existence with the added difficulty on top that everything what her physical existence was based on were Sora's memories.
It IS true, her own memories which she created for herself during the time she was independent as well as her sense of self and mind belong to her, not to Sora, the memories her physical existence was based on belong to Sora, and since those had to be given back to Sora it caused everyone to forget her.
The memories others have of Xion are sealed away, she however still has her own, and her mind and sense of self are just sleeping inside Sora, just like Roxas, only a bit deeper and more hidden.
It's the same with Naminé in Kairi concerning their current state.
Very similar at least, Repliku was created by Vexen with sampled memories of Riku, yet he knew completelly it weren't "his" memories.
His true sense of self and mind were evident before Naminé messed with his memories making him believe to be the real Riku on Larxene's and Marluxias's orders, and his true "parts" came to light again after Naminé crushed the false memories in his heart after Sora's last fight with him.
Actually, everyone forgot her because even those 'independent' memories were simply offshoots growing from the memories that belonged to Sora. As Namine put it, 'everything about you was built on those memories'. That's why everyone had to forget her; giving back the base memories of Sora's meant everything else she'd added to them had to go too, severing all the chains of memories.
It's kind of like the whole thing in Back to the Future where Marty started fading out of existence because he stopped his parents getting together, because all events leading to his birth were built on that base moment. And trying to say otherwise is basically trying to ignore the whole point of the whole 'tragically inevitable death' plot Xion had going on.
I thought the whole point of Xion's story was her coming to terms with how she was doomed, and that there was no way to save even a memory of her. It was about someone with nothing to call their own trying to find a way to make at least one good impact on the world before they disappeared, through friendship.
First of all, rather than 'seals', you'd be better off talking about how the links of memories are separated from the chains, which is what memories are in this series.
Second of all, by saying that Xion's existence is the same as Roxas and Namine is, again, ignoring some of the most basic parts of their plots.
Roxas and Xion were both born from something of Sora's, yes. Roxas was born from Sora's body, and Xion from his memories. However, thanks to Kairi, Sora didn't need anything back from Roxas until Namine messed with his memories, and all the separated links started flowing into him. That is the only real reason Roxas HAD to go back to Sora at the start of KH2; to return the memories that had leaked out, that Namine needed so she could fix the chains and wake Sora up. Despite having these memories inside him, Roxas was a Nobody and didn't need them to have his own mind. Because of this, it's reasonable to think Roxas could be sleeping inside Sora somewhere. This is also supported in the FM+ scene with Axel; he's definitely sleeping somewhere.
On the other hand, Xion was a Replica, and everything about her were built off memories belonging to Sora. She could not have developed a mind of her own without them, unlike a Nobody. And although it's absolutely true that thanks to unique experiences she grew her own persona, it is an important point in Days that she can't function, exist or even be remembered without those integral base memories. Which is why it's difficult on a logic level to imagine her coming back, or even how she sleeps. How will they bring her back, if she needs memories that Sora also needs? How can she be 'sleeping' as she is, if pieces of her are out working in their proper places inside Sora? The way chains of memories work means they can't exist at the same time.
I have no doubt that they will bring her back, but I have huge doubts that it will make any sense based on the information about memories, chains and replicas that we have been given so far. I imagine we're supposed to swallow it in the same way they expected us to swallow Xion somehow speaking to Riku through the Oblivion keyblade from beyond the grave.
Thank you- tbh, the whole "Xion is made of memories of Sora, so she can't co-exist with him, yet she has her own memories that don't really belong to Sora" left me really confused, because then why would everyone forget her? But the Marty McFly analogy made a lot of sense. (Or as much sense as KH's mythology makes nowadays...)
What I still don't understand though, now that you guys have brought it up, is the difference between Xion and Repliku? The events of CoM imply that Repliku could've existed just fine alongside Riku and he also had his own personality and knew what he was before Namine messed with his memories. Xion, on the other hand, was a mindless drone until Sora's memories of Kairi started leaking into her and gave her a personality. And Repliku didn't fade into crystal sparkles either. Yet didn't Vexen say he made Repliku through memories/data he obtained during his fight with Riku? So what's the difference between Xion and Repliku?
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...so... is Sora going to be super pimped out on power when he's complete?
Most of Repliku's memories are copies of Riku's memories, not the real things, whereas Xion's memories are literally made from Sora's memories. So that's why, for instance, after Repliku died, people could still remember him, because he had his own separate set of memories, even if they were based on Riku's.
Repliku had characteristics, Xion technically didn't. Some saw her as the Xion we know, god knows what Xemnas saw her as, Axel didn't see her like Roxas until half way through the game, Saix only saw her as a hooded girl and Xigbar saw her as Ven.
Okay, that makes more sense now. Thanks for clearing that up, Grass!
Oh, almost forgot-
Thank you!
Yeah, Idk how they're going to pull that off, although at this point, I'm guessing it's going to be a retcon that ties into the Realm of Sleep. Her personal memories will turn out to be sleeping inside Sora all along, and when they unlock the Keyhole down there, she'll wake up again or something like that.
Oh, almost forgot-
Thank you!Yeah, Idk how they're going to pull that off, although at this point, I'm guessing it's going to be a retcon that ties into the Realm of Sleep. Her personal memories will turn out to be sleeping inside Sora all along, and when they unlock the Keyhole down there, she'll wake up again or something like that.
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this whole series is going to be so complex when it is done, if it isn't already.
Well, as much as I love that movie, there are giant flaws in Back to the Future time travel theory too, but if it helped you understand I'm glad
I think if we are to imagine it in the scope of the series mythology, everyone remembers others through connecting chains of memory, right? And pulling links out of those chains causes mass amnesia, like how everyone forgot Sora when Namine messed with him. What that means is, if all the chains Xion managed to create between other people are either anchored to or riddled with stolen links that rightfully belong inside Sora, pulling those links out will make everyone forget her.
That part isn't that much of a discrepancy, cause it basically already happened to Namine; all the real memories of her were riddled with fake ones, so when she pulled them out it caused Sora to forget her entirely. The part that makes Xion's situation hard to swallow is how it makes you wonder... what on earth did the Organisation think they had been doing for an entire year? What did Axel think he'd been doing? Since Xion was so vital to everything, how did Axel remember enough about his time with Roxas to have that degree of care he showed in KH2? Namine made sense; only SDG forgot her, and they forgot the entire section of time in CO along with her. Xion was forgotten by everyone who ever met her, which would have left mysterious gaps through a whole year. Not to mention you'd think there would be a lot of paperwork surrounding her as a research project. And all the members kept diaries, as evidenced in the secret reports.
And now I'm thinking about how they never actually explained the difference between a copy of a memory and a real one, or how they got the memories for Xion in the first place (Xemnas in the FM scene? Namine? If Namine, why did she not react sooner? If Xemnas could steal real memories, why did the Org even need Namine?), or why exactly being based off memories caused everyone to see Xion differently, and where the black hair came from......
uigfhnlkg,fds'ads this bonking game
Yeah, Idk how they're going to pull that off, although at this point, I'm guessing it's going to be a retcon that ties into the Realm of Sleep. Her personal memories will turn out to be sleeping inside Sora all along, and when they unlock the Keyhole down there, she'll wake up again or something like that.
No, thank you, you're so good at phrasing all this stuff!
Yeah, you're probably right. I'm still waiting to see how they will pull off her personal memories existing on their own at all, when the whole reason she cause mass amnesia and stopped existing was that her chains of memories couldn't function without the integral Sora ones in there too. WHICH HE ALSO NEEDS.
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Supposedly, others' memories were rewritten without her and everything about Xion got erased. Yes, even paper work and writing. MAGICALLY. Like the whole "I speak through Oblivion cause the kanji has 'memory' in it and it's connected to Riku, so I could be in his head telling him to do something he already planned on doing despite that I'm gone". I don't know if it was ever said, either by CoM, Naminé, or KH staff interviews, whether replacing or rewriting memories was even possible by its own volition. Have you seen any explanation of the sort? Cause if there isn't, it's fan theory trying to explicitly cover a plot hole.
And if that's the case, that makes Xion "being the reason Roxas left" (among others) more moot. The kid, once he remembered his past, found nothing off about his reason for leaving. Nothing. You will think that since Xion was slated to be this big, important motivator (who had existed beforehand) that there will be some gap he would take note of. Nope. So, if everything makes sense to other characters without her inclusion, then why create her in the first place? Granted, out of the game universe we all know that Xion wasn't conjured up until much later (I forgot whether it was after KH2 or after KH2: FM+ when they were fiddling on the side games). And deciding this character to be put straight smacked into the middle of an already known, done, and existing storyline when it was never there was...risky, at best. That's why they had to make everyone forget about Xion, because then GLARING plot holes abounded. And the attempts to implement her ended up failing anyway if others find problems with the game.
We do know that though ;P. Erm, well, out of the game. The novel writer wanted it.
That's why my reaction to the whole "Xion's return is easier to accomplish than Roxas's" is:
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xion's black hair is from vanitas obviously. might be actually who knows
Actually, it was just Kanemaki being a fangirl:
I'm waiting for an in-universe reason. And assuming Vanitas-bleed when there is no reason given does not cut it for me. She looks like Kairi because most of the memories she accidentally absorbed were the Kairi memories torn out of Sora during CoM. I find it hard to believe there was a substantial amount of Vanitas memories torn out to affect her base appearance.
Nope, it's a fan theory. They've never explained it. The closest I've ever seen was Axel saying in the novels that he 'didn't even want to know what lay in his hazy memories' as he was angsting over Roxas.
I'd have to say after FM+, if only because she's not even hinted at in any of the extra scenes, and most telling, the Remembrance scene on the clock-tower. No foreshadowing, no nothing. Which is interesting, because that scene hints at BBS.
That's why my reaction to the whole "Xion's return is easier to accomplish than Roxas's" is:
And that's why mine is:
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Correction: This girl knows. But the only one with black hair really is Vanitas so I'm not sure where she actually obtained her black hair.
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