Xion and the confusion at the end

[Sephiroth0812]

I like friendly debates, we all can show our points and maybe someone can come away with something new to think about/a better understanding. It makes sense, we can't always agree with each other. xD
I have never beaten Re:COM (I've only watched the cutscenes on Youtube sooo, I know how that is). K, everyone was raging about her being a Mary-sue before the games were even out, it was awful. Then when the games came out she was just considered a plot device. -shakes head- But, oh well. We all have different opinions.

Yup, as long as no one makes personal attacks it'll might even be enlightening for all involved.
Funny thing is, Xion being a "Mary-Sue" of the persona of "Emo-Princess" and/or "Attention-wh***" (pardon for this word...lol) was also one of the points I discussed with Smile.
Even if I haven't watched Days fully yet, Xion might have issues, yes, she may whine, yes, but if one looks closely she's not craving for attention, as pretty much everyone in the game don't give a damn crap about her.
The only one going into a obsession-like frenzy about Xion several times is Roxas...if one is to blame then it is the way how Roxas was portrayed in days, not that Xion was in the game.
However, if one goes by the premise that a heart can pass down traits if it comes into contact with an other existence despite being badly injured and asleep one could argue that Roxas got some of Ven's clingyness through him carrying his heart and then projecting it on Xion. Just like Sora got this "holding-hands-behind-head-and-smiling"-trait through Ven's heart.
=> this one was actually thought out by Smile and me...^_^

Yeah, over fictional characters it's crazy to get so worked up. o_o Oh KH females, how they envoke so many emotions!
It's fun to do that on KH2... makes it challenging and enjoyable.

Yeah, sometimes one really got to wonder why it are mostly the females who invoke this kind of reaction...*ggg*

If you want an actual challenge in KH2 you need to impose restrictions on yourself...

 

[roofie]

Good ideas! Thanks for the feedback! Had been driving me nuts ever since i bought the game last year!

 

[Taochan]

Yup, as long as no one makes personal attacks it'll might even be enlightening for all involved.
Funny thing is, Xion being a "Mary-Sue" of the persona of "Emo-Princess" and/or "Attention-wh***" (pardon for this word...lol) was also one of the points I discussed with Smile.
Even if I haven't watched Days fully yet, Xion might have issues, yes, she may whine, yes, but if one looks closely she's not craving for attention, as pretty much everyone in the game don't give a damn crap about her.
The only one going into a obsession-like frenzy about Xion several times is Roxas...if one is to blame then it is the way how Roxas was portrayed in days, not that Xion was in the game.
However, if one goes by the premise that a heart can pass down traits if it comes into contact with an other existence despite being badly injured and asleep one could argue that Roxas got some of Ven's clingyness through him carrying his heart and then projecting it on Xion. Just like Sora got this "holding-hands-behind-head-and-smiling"-trait through Ven's heart.
=> this one was actually thought out by Smile and me...^_^

I always liked Xion because she wasn't so happy. She had genuine reasons to be upset. xD
I like the idea you guys came up with. I never minded Roxas being so clingy on Xion; I assumed it also had something to do with her being primarily made up of memories of Kairi, so Roxas reacted to. Oh man, they do both do the "hands-behind-head-and-smile" thing. That's so cute.

Yeah, sometimes one really got to wonder why it are mostly the females who invoke this kind of reaction...*ggg*

If you want an actual challenge in KH2 you need to impose restrictions on yourself...

I'd like to know why! Every KH female eventually seems to get massive hatred. o_o And it's true, it makes the game fun. xD

Good ideas! Thanks for the feedback! Had been driving me nuts ever since i bought the game last year!

No problem~!

 

[Smile]

I assumed it also had something to do with her being primarily made up of memories of Kairi, so Roxas reacted to

"Primarily"? She ended up having all of Sora's Memories at the very end :C She looked like Ven and Sora himself.
I personally say that Namine aiming specifically at Sora's Memories of Kairi's what got Xion to initially look like Kairi (she removed her hood when Sora forgot completely about Kairi in CoM), and from that point on - Roxas and Axel "remembered" Xion with the Kairi face so that's what they saw of her.

Oh man, they do both do the "hands-behind-head-and-smile" thing. That's so cute.

No it's not, it's disgusting ><
Up yours, Nomura. Give Sora back his right to be his own person.

And you guys talk a lot about what you talked with me about o.o;;;

 

[Sephiroth0812]

No it's not, it's disgusting ><
Up yours, Nomura. Give Sora back his right to be his own person.

On this I'm more with Taocha...it is a cute thing, and Sora still is his own person...^_^

And you guys talk a lot about what you talked with me about o.o;;;

Uhm...yeah, because it was good and made sense actually...so why hold back with it?

 

[Lindaxe]

On a side note... I always thought it was naminé talking to riku during the deep dive scene :/

 

[Smile]

On a side note... I always thought it was naminé talking to riku during the deep dive scene :/

I personally never understood where people got this from. Riku heard the voice when he held the Oblivion and saw his Memories of Xion begin to disappear. Then the same voice talked to Roxas and talked about Memories of the both of them (Roxas hadn't met Namine at this time, mind, so it couldn't have been her!) residing inside Sora.
:v

 

[Stars]

I personally never understood where people got this from. Riku heard the voice when he held the Oblivion and saw his Memories of Xion begin to disappear. Then the same voice talked to Roxas and talked about Memories of the both of them (Roxas hadn't met Namine at this time, mind, so it couldn't have been her!) residing inside Sora.
:v

Why would Riku sense Xion when taking the Oblivion?

 

[Lindaxe]

It just sounded like Namine's voice. Plus he had met her by then; he'd known her for a while. I think he actually meets her in Com, but I could be mistaken. Its been forever since I've played it. But I know for a fact he's met Namine in Days... one particular cutscene comes to mind where DiZ, Namine, and Riku are all in sora's chamber and DiZ tells Riku that it's time to finish things. I believe the scene is called "Riku's Resolve".

 

[*TwilightNight*]

I think we should be allowed to talk about the scene or the dislike of it and why. Unless you want the forum to be 100% positive and therefore squash the freedom of opinions down the drain. None of us are going "I hate Xion", "she's a bitch", "Mary-Sue", "haha, she died".

I like to pretend that Xion didn't say anything to Riku in that scene. I liked it so much better before they added that in there. >_> I mean, Riku was going to stop Roxas anyway, so her telling him to do it really wasn't necessary.

Pretty much this. No matter what the cause, Roxas was never going back to that castle, Xion or no Xion. True fact. Which creates another scene (upon all the others of the same calibur, which is what annoys me, more or less) where her presence wasn't needed as an explanation. And now we got people talking around people's minds through a Keyblade for it. Why couldn't they leave it as, you know, Riku wanting to take Roxas on Diz's orders and throw him in the Data Twilight Town as he's needed to wake Sora up? (which all of a sudden matters now to these characters after a year of doing nothing)

but oops, she was dying, so hadn't time to explain it all out...

Saying "return to Sora and defeat Xemnas then" isn't very difficult. Actually, it's a small amount in comparison to all the blabbering she did when dying. There's no reason why she couldn't get to the point, only to then retract her statement later and worm her way into Deep Dive because Riku obviously was in TWTNW to have tea and cookies with Roxas peacefully. From a writer's point of view, they probably chose not to go with making the death wish straight, for the sole purpose of wanting Xion in the fight. And that's why part of my disdain with 358/2 Days as a whole is the contrivances of everything. Unnecessarily, mind you.

 

[Smile]

Why would Riku sense Xion when taking the Oblivion?

The why is the tricky part here. However, it wasn't until he caught the Oblivion that his Memories of her began surfacing and fading.
Also, Nomura confirmed that Xion and the Oblivion are related, though he never said how. I personally relate it to Xion's unexplained relation to Riku, and as the Oblivion's Sora's Memories of him, it adds up in my mind.

It just sounded like Namine's voice. Plus he had met her by then; he'd known her for a while. I think he actually meets her in Com, but I could be mistaken. Its been forever since I've played it. But I know for a fact he's met Namine in Days... one particular cutscene comes to mind where DiZ, Namine, and Riku are all in sora's chamber and DiZ tells Riku that it's time to finish things. I believe the scene is called "Riku's Resolve".

The voice was talking to ROXAS though, speaking about Memories of her with ROXAS. And Namine hadn't met Roxas until KH2.

I think we should be allowed to talk about the scene or the dislike of it and why.

So long as it's on topic, yes, and has more to offer than "I ignore her being in the game".
And I do still appreciate the irony that threads such as this used to get people demanding people shut up and crawled back to the HC and that that was why it was there and all.
Ah, the good old days.

 

[Lindaxe]

The voice was talking to ROXAS though, speaking about Memories of her with ROXAS. And Namine hadn't met Roxas until KH2.

Are we talking about the same scene? I'm referring to Deep Drive when the arbitrary voice tells Riku, "Riku, please! You have to stop him!"... I thought that was what we were all talking about lol now I'm confused

 

[Smile]

Are we talking about the same scene? I'm referring to Deep Drive when the arbitrary voice tells Riku, "Riku, please! You have to stop him!"... I thought that was what we were all talking about lol now I'm confused

Yes. It's the same scene. And that same voice later spoke to Roxas, saying things that didn't make sense for Namine to say.

 

[Lindaxe]

Oh yeah, there is that tiny scene where the voice talks again. I had to go back and watch the whole ending again.

But... Riku wasn't holding Oblivion when the voice spoke to him. Roxas had just attacked him with both Oblivion and Oathkeeper and Riku took the hit, then the voice came in, then Riku did that thing with the darkness and the battle finished.

 

[Smile]

Ya, hence my edit of my post xD; just rewatched that scene.
But that can be explained to the whole weird Riku-Xion relation that has yet to be explored, and also, Riku coming into contact with the Oblivion a short while prior.

 

[Lindaxe]

I gotcha lol so when did Nomura say Oblivion and Xion were connected? Was it an interview?

 

[Smile]

I gotcha lol so when did Nomura say Oblivion and Xion were connected? Was it an interview?

One of the Days interviews. The Ultimania, I believe. He said that from the Oblivion's name (More akin to "Memories Past" in the Japanese version) you can understand that Xion's related to it.
It adds up with various other factors in that scene, like Riku seeing the flashes of Memories when he took the Oblivion, and looking at the Oblivion itself several times when speaking/thinking about Xion.

 

[Lindaxe]

Aight. So if Xion is talking to them after she's died, then where is she exactly? Would her 'being' so to speak, reside within the memories that no one remembers?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Yup, that's probably it, as her own memories are what formed her own sense of self in the first place.
These are what define her, so that's the location her "essence" is now. (same goes for Naminé and Roxas btw.)

 

[Smile]

Aight. So if Xion is talking to them after she's died, then where is she exactly? Would her 'being' so to speak, reside within the memories that no one remembers?

They kind of explained that in Deep Dive itself. She was absorbed into Roxas. Then, the both of them were absorbed into Sora. Just like Roxas and Namine being inside Sora and Kairi, it seems like Xion's inside Sora, albeit in a much more dormant state and much more out of reach.

Yup, that's probably it, as her own memories are what formed her own sense of self in the first place.
These are what define her, so that's the location her "essence" is now. (same goes for Naminé and Roxas btw.)

I'm not so sure about that first part. If Replicas really have Hearts like is stated at least in the original CoM, I'd sooner blame Xion forming her own personality on that. Especially in light of exactly how many people's Memories flowed into her (Sora, Ven, Riku, and potentially more).
Now the more interesting question is - where did her Heart go.