While I think Xehanort might have originally be interested in balance (His younger less corrupt incarnation), the old geezer could probably give 2 poops about balance.
I agree that in their universe, things must be balanced, and in some ways it is. There is the Dark Realm which seems just as vast and dark as the Light Realm is vast and light. Not to mention the Realm Between that is all shades of gray in perfect balance.
Xehanort's action's are constantly setting the Realms OUT of balance. While he may have started wanting to learn about the balance of the universe, now the crazy old man is fueled by his curiosity of what happens after the worlds are completely enveloped in darkness. He's obsessed with the "true" light that supposed to appear after such a catastrophic event. He doesn't care about all the lives and people he's harming along the way, they don't matter as much as the 'true light'.
He's no better than a 'doctor' who conducts human experiments on unwilling people without caring whether they live or die because "In the end, your suffering will produce a cure. Be happy about my discoveries." I can list a few real life examples of such people, and it still continues on to this day. Is that not evil? Treating other human beings as mere tools to get what he wants? They did not sign up to be sacrifices for his goals. He's completely aware of what he's done to these people and doesn't even take responsibility for what he did to them insisting it was 'fate' and 'destiny' that hurt them.
Just because he's trying to get the "cure" (true light), doesn't mean all his methods and actions are excused. He's evil. Even if he was 'light', if he did this stuff he'd be evil. Right now, there is no equivalent person of light who has done the things he did, using and abusing people to satisfy his curiosity and get the 'true light/cure'. I do believe there is a Tyranny of Light, or that, in theory, one could appear. Eraqus is an example of someone blinded by light and yes, his actions were wrong. If he went out of his way to go out and kill everyone with a little touch of darkness in their hearts 'for the greater good', he'd definitely be on Xehanort's level. In fact, I'm expecting such a villain to appear after the Xehanort arc because it seems like a natural progression.
On another note, I sometimes wonder if this balance only needs to exist now because of what happened when the worlds were enveloped in darkness the first time. Is the entire universe balancing on the head of a needle thousands of years later, never truly repaired? Surely this means darkness shouldn't be around at all, it's just a reality of life they must live with now because of what happened in the past.
Heh, thanks, you actually stated the gist of what I meant in a much shorter and more concise way. ^__^
Says you, on a... not really specified authority on the subject.
Also, you keep talking about actions. I was the first to label them as evil.
You do not really need to be an "authority" to see that the evil intent is there.
Your actions and
behaviour show who and what you are, so I don't really see why it should be detached.
Not really.
Grandma's story in the first KH does depict the current situation as a dampening plan B escape route. But the true light does still sleeps into the Darkness, and one day the final door will open, as the flying script boxes also states to Sora.
They surely don't put that in an evil way, actually in the first KH the worlds as isolated closed environments was actually a sad concept, before Yen Sid ex machina made journeys still possible for sequel purposes.
So yeah, about the nothing supporting Xehanort.
In five masters so obsessed into gathering so much Light that they brought the worst cataclysm of the series.
In a single master who was so obsessed with Light that he failed to notice the distress of his pupil and gave the evil Xehanort quite an helping hand.
You're interpretating Tyranny of Light as physical phenomenon. Tyranny of Light is just the dogma Eraqus and some if not all of the Foretellers preach.
"Grandma's story" in the first KH is a fairytale-esque thingy though and the worlds doing pretty good and being peaceful was directed at their status between after the reorganisation of the worlds and Xehanort starting messing around some years before BBS.
Come again?
Where exactly does the actual story of Kairi's Grandma/x[chi]
support Xehanort
's view of there being "too much light"?
Except that there is more than one hint laid out that said five masters were manipulated and driven into this "obsession" by a deliberate scheme in order to ensure that this cataclysm happens, not unlike a certain bald bastard is scheming at present day to make it happen again.
I'm not interpreting "Tyranny of Light" as a phenomenon but as a tangible, viable ideology and that ideology is
not prevalent and in effect as Xehanort claims it to be. As said above already the Foretellers are most likely manipulated, not actively building up a tyranny (except maybe Aced, but that's a different can of worms) and Eraqus, as Kirabook already pointed out, doesn't count because he is not a tyrant.
If Eraqus would go and actively try to destroy anyone who displays Darkness openly
then he could be interpreted as following a truly "tyrannic" ideology and would actually fit the bill of what Xehanort claims.
Even if we do interpret it as a dogma that is followed by Eraqus and the Foretellers...those are mere six individuals in an universe comprised of
billions if not more living beings so the claim of Xehanort that a "Tyranny of Light" is ruling the universe still cannot be held up.
See? That's what I'm talking about.
Now why would Eraqus matter on this subject, or rather, why is this interpreted as Eraqus being the only bad guy. You're acting like there's gotta be ONE good guy and ONE bad guy, and if one is bad the other is good. Hence, my "Black and white" mindset.
I wasn't comparing anyone, Eraqus was wrong in his own right and I merely brought him on the plate to show how a life of absolutes is not righteous at all, but Eraqus has little worth in analyzing Xehanort.
I've already answered above that that narrow-minded thinking IS the Tyranny of Light, so that's that.
And "The only things that really caused extensive damage and harm to people and worlds alike are people like Xehanort, Maleficent and their excessive (mis)use of Darkness."
I'll admit Unchained isn't finished and fully explained, but I definitely saw five people gathering immeasurable amounts of Light and fighting a lives/World ending war in the name of such Light.
If Eraqus doesn't matter on this subject then why bring him up in the first place?
I wasn't getting at Eraqus being the "only" bad guy but you putting him on the same level as Xehanort, which doesn't hold up in the slightest. Eraqus is neither a saint nor an objective paragon of justice, but he is
leagues less dangerous and egoistic than Xehanort is.
Even if you interpret Eraqus' mindset as such, the "Tyranny of Light" as a true overall ideology that is in place in the whole universe still doesn't exist and doesn't warrant to "reorganize" the whole universe as Xehanort claims is needed.
And yet that "war" is only aimed at bringing as much Darkness as possible forth and "extinguish/expire" the light and very probably set up by a conspiracy/scheme of an outside force, not because of any actual misuse of light or light being the destructive, tyrannic force.
Be assured I was using "foes" lightly there. I was just awake and couldn't find a better term. I just meant "people on the opposite sides".
You keep going onto his actions, which I never excused. My talk begins and finishes at his goal and his nature.
I know, that's why I put "foe" into quotation marks as well.
Just because I tend to answer somewhat detailed and "longwinded" doesn't mean I feel insulted or "attacked" in any way.
Pretty sure I showed a report which disproves the terms "selfish" and "zero empathy".
To say it with your own words: Debatable.
The report in question (which by the way also describes a mere
action) doesn't really prove anything in regards to Xehanort actually having empathy or a regard for others.
Again, if he had, Ventus, who was a
child by that time, would not even be in the situation described there in the first place.
An even
earlier report already stated that he only took Ventus in with the intent to use him as a tool, so "disproving" the selfish and zero empathy/regard for another living being traits might be very shakily to do.
This is really getting old, so.
Do you see how you keep mentioning his actions every two sentences? Those same actions I said were evil to begin with?
Instead of getting so worked up and horrified about my "impudence", take a breather, and see where I'm coming from:
Xehanort does evil things. Xehanort isn't a good person. What Xehanort does is unexcusable. Whoever tries to make it so what he does has no evil consequences and is the right thing to do is laughable and definitely a fellow I would NOT meet alone in a desert place.
Do I, meaning I and not the entirety of the KH fans, think Xehanort is an evil guy, a selfish bastard, the quintessence of evil itself?
No. Xehanort is a self-centerd person who doesn't listen to anyone else and imposes himself on others, showing no remorse whatsoever.
All of these characteristics, that lead to terrible evil things, aren't evil themselves, since there are people who are egotistic, stubborn, remorseless and all of the above without being evil or doing evil. I know calling Xehanort "stubborn" seems ridicolous seen the entity of his sins, but he fits the definition.
Now, is one evil just for what he does, or how far one must need to go until his actions describes his nature, it's quite literally one of humanity's greatest questions, second only maybe to the meaning of life. I do not have the arrogance to claim my interpreation is the absolute answer, is just my viewpoint. On which people are free to disagree with and not even understanding it.
"Okay so what's your point then? How does that change anything?"
It doesn't. Xehanort is an unnecessary menace and needs to be put down. This is my personal stance on him as a person, and it doesn't lead anywhere.
And if it was just a waste of time, I sincerely apologize. Not even being sarcastic here.
Well duh, maybe because
actions combined with overall behaviour and mannerisms allow to draw inferences to a person's mindset and nature?
People of certain natures won't even consider actions such as Xehanort takes
constantly, not to mention that you yourself use an
action done by Xehanort to argue against him being a selfish, uncaring bastard.
So if it is pro-Xehanort, it can be taken into consideration but if it isn't it should be detached? Cause if you sum up all actions and statements done by him the picture is pretty clear, no matter what his initial goals might have been and the degree of nobleness they might have had.
You are right on that one, being ambitious, self-centered and ruthless/remorseless as
traits are not inherently evil, but how a person handles them is a decisive factor and how else does Xehanort handle them besides doing horrible things with it?
Xehanort is someone who
knows what he does and he is
aware of all the damage he causes and he just doesn't care, that goes way beyond "stubborn" in terms of villainy.
To round back to the Eraqus attacking Ven example as a contrast, he
also knows what he's doing, is aware that it's wrong and causes damage, but he is also doing it reluctantly and remorseful for having to go to such extremes. He
cares, Xehanort
doesn't. Wrong/evil action, but totally different mindset about it, that's the difference.
Exactly, what is your point? I'm truly interested in that one.
If you would be in anyone of the heroes shoes, be it Terra, Sora, Ven, Aqua or anyone else, how would you handle Xehanort?
It is certainly not a waste of time as it is actually an interesting debate, although I do have to honestly say that I don't get behind the mindset present as as far as I know no one actually denied that Xehanort is not
inherently evil (as arguably nothing is) and was probably even a remotely decent person
in the past, but that doesn't change the fact that he's an quite evil scumbag
right now.
I usually enjoy extended conversations about things like this, but... Come on. Whether Geezernort is right about balance or not is irrelevant at this point. It doesn't matter how "right" your intentions or viewpoints are when your methods involve shredding up a child's heart, betraying and murdering your family, manipulating/possessing/stalking teenagers, methodically destroying various characters' sense of self, and destroying the universe. All for some endgoal of creating "an apocalypse out of sheer curiosity."
So, why is Geezernort wrong in all this, regardless of his viewpoint's validity? We got the answer in 2005. "Simple. It's because you mess up the worlds." Among other things. For a result that will benefit no one but himself.
An even shorter one that gets straight to the point, full agreement. ^__^
